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Surplus experience system officially explained by SEFollow

#203 Aug 25 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
Please tell me I am misunderstanding this. I can only level for 15 hours a week and thats all? Or can I switch jobs and level a different character for another 15? I am so confused. It kind of sounds like they are in fact killing their own game. I am sorry if some people cannot pause for porno but I always make time for my girl, and food lol.

CLAIRIFICATION PLEASE!
#204 Aug 25 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Default
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So basically, its recommended u play an hour a day so by the end of the week it will reset thus u never get the exp reduction at all. But u are still required to change class to not get surplus.

I clearly remembered SE said they want u to play FFXIV in short bursts.
#205 Aug 25 2010 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
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The 15 hours you're thinking of is a class-by-class basis. You could swap classes and go for another 15 hours. However, at that point it would just be benefiting your Class Level (not your Physical Level, although Physical Level has not had a very big impact on the game for players so far).
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#206 Aug 25 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Default
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SE would never nerf normal exp gain.

If its bonus exp like ffxi exp rings

it'll work in the effect that you'll have a bonus for exp, and then once that's spent
you'll be back at what would be the normal exp.


Its kinda simple actually

I am going with the posters who are reading and understanding this, using this school of
thought


no if actual exp is reduced to zero that sucks because considering most players like to put in extra hours
between fri-sun, then by sunday you'd be at zero exp gain . . . .

kinda nonsensical if that's how it will work

but if its a bonus to exp for those who took some between gaming sessions and would
allow people to get extra exp to catch up. Then its a bonus and no one has to fret at all.

SE is not usually about the casual gamer when it comes to its games, most involve a large time investment
if you want the best gear or weapons. Also this is a business after all and giving players incentive to play vs
not to play would be contrary to that

even final weapons i think there should be two versions. The hardcore relic style weapons
and then a more casual style relic weapon that is slightly downgraded from the original super
hard to get item. That's just my opinion, and that way it gives everyone a chance at some sort of
epeen moment.

XD
#207 Aug 25 2010 at 2:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Right now in the beta it cuts off all xp. It is not a bonus like the rings in FFXI.

I know many of you wish it was a bonus but it is not.
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#208 Aug 25 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Edit: This is @Speeral.

It's not like that. It DOES go to zero. Each class has a separate 8 hours per week during which time their EXP will not be influenced, then another 7 hours during which they can still get EXP, but it is gradually falling from 100% to 0% (at which point you get no EXP per kill). But that is for each class, not overall (aside from your Physical Level gains which remain at 0 until the reset, but physical level so far is rather unimportant from what beta players say). That explanation of how surplus works came from someone who works for SE. It's believed however, due to something Tanaka said, that it's actually an EXP limit and not a time limit, but we haven't been given any numbers with which to make sense out of an EXP limit, or give it any real meaning, so it's just easier to go with time.



Edited, Aug 25th 2010 4:21pm by Kaelia88
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#209 Aug 25 2010 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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We should really pitch the "Rested XP" thing to them nonstop. If anyone here has the ability to post actually feedback on the forums, please do so. :3
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#210 Aug 25 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hypnotiq101 wrote:
Thanks for the post.. pretty much explains it all.. surplus xp is to help the lvling curve.. I dont understand why people continue thinking it means after 8/15 hours your xp is reduced to 0.. When a car lot has a surplus of cars and they sell the surplus does that means they have no cars to sell?? No it means they no longer have as many..

What does surplus mean?
Surplus means when there is more supply than demand, as in extra resources.

We dont need someone to understand Japanese language.. just more people that understand English >.<


BECAUSE THATS HOW IT WORKED IN B3! I was in B3 and we got 0 exp. Here in English: ZERO EXPERIENCE. You start with 100% and it goes down to ZERO. Is this so hard to understand?

At the same time the experience goes down the SURPLUS experience went up. More and more of you regular experience got converted into Surplus experience up to the point where you got only surplus and no regular experience. Surplus experience however does nothing at all. It's not used in the game at all right now and they will maybe think of using it somehow since they got feedback to do so.

Does everyone understand that now?
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#211 Aug 25 2010 at 2:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
You dont need someone from beta to explain dormancy.. its a simple word and ill explain it in a fun way..

When a person has HIV it means they have a dormant virus of AIDS.. later that virus becomes undormant/active and is then called full blown AIDS..


in short dormancy means not used/active.

First of all:

Dormancy is a period in an organism's life cycle when growth, development, and (in animals) physical activity is temporarily stopped.

Second, your HIV analogy is full of huge misinformation:

HIV is a virus (Human Immunodeficiency Virus). AIDS is a syndrome (Acquired ImmunoDeficiency Syndrome). AIDS is not something that lies dormant; It describes the symptoms of someone infected with the HIV when their white blood count becomes dangerously low and their body can no longer fight even the smallest of infections.

If you want to use HIV as an analogy for dormancy, you should try this one:

Dormancy can be seen in people with HIV who are correctly being treated with anti-retro virals, as their blood's HIV viral load becomes undetectable and is only found within blood cells in pro-virus form.

AIDS is when the viral load of HIV within the blood is extremely high and the white blood count is extremely low.

Sorry, I know this is off topic, but its important to clear up false and dangerous misinformation.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 1:25pm by Nathanael
#212 Aug 25 2010 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
Nirn wrote:
I'm almost a hardcore eater, then! 3 meals a day, 1 hour per meal, 7 days a week? 21 hours.


If you're eating when you're not hungry, as a leisure activity, then yes, that's hardcore.
#213 Aug 25 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
If you're eating when you're not hungry, as a leisure activity, then yes, that's hardcore.

Sorry, just realized how that line looked. I meant for it to come off as silly, not snide. My apologies.
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#214 Aug 25 2010 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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Deadgye wrote:
We should really pitch the "Rested XP" thing to them nonstop. If anyone here has the ability to post actually feedback on the forums, please do so. :3


I am puzzled as to why they didn't just go with that route. It's tried and true, and it accomplishes the same goal that they purport to be achieving with this surplus/fatigue system.
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#215 Aug 25 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
Nirn wrote:
Quote:
If you're eating when you're not hungry, as a leisure activity, then yes, that's hardcore.

Sorry, just realized how that line looked. I meant for it to come off as silly, not snide. My apologies.


No worries, I'm just trying to clarify. Most people will work or sleep a lot more than 28 hours a week, but not many people will spend 28 hours a week doing some thing for fun without other people looking at them as being seriously committed to that thing. If you watch four hours of TV a day (which many people do) that's a serious commitment to TV. It's definitely hardcore, even if it's (sadly) common. I'm on the internet more than 28 hours a week. It doesn't feel hardcore, until my service goes out for 20 minutes and I'm starting to rage about it.

As MMO players we spend so much time playing that we think of it as normal, but it's still a LOT of time, and it's not really healthy if you have other commitments like kids, church, an active social life, etc.
#216 Aug 25 2010 at 2:39 PM Rating: Good
Eske, Star Breaker wrote:
Deadgye wrote:
We should really pitch the "Rested XP" thing to them nonstop. If anyone here has the ability to post actually feedback on the forums, please do so. :3


I am puzzled as to why they didn't just go with that route. It's tried and true, and it accomplishes the same goal that they purport to be achieving with this surplus/fatigue system.


Yes and no. If their goal is to put an absolute cap on progress each week, then rested XP won't accomplish that. Simply making it harder to level would make it more of a grind and for achievement oriented players, would entice them to spend even more hours playing. Of course, this method just frustrates those players and makes them think that maybe they shouldn't play at all, but apparently they're okay with that, or don't take it seriously.
#217 Aug 25 2010 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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Eske, Star Breaker wrote:
Deadgye wrote:
We should really pitch the "Rested XP" thing to them nonstop. If anyone here has the ability to post actually feedback on the forums, please do so. :3


I am puzzled as to why they didn't just go with that route. It's tried and true, and it accomplishes the same goal that they purport to be achieving with this surplus/fatigue system.


It doesn't need rested xp, or bonus/surplus anything. Remove it and let the people have fun.
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#218 Aug 25 2010 at 2:42 PM Rating: Decent
So I read more posts....the xp that is lost is just bonus xp? Or once I hit 15 hours I can no longer level that class at all? Geezzz so confusing.
#219 Aug 25 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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Kaelia88 wrote:
What I'm gathering from Rinsui is that the "surplus EXP gain" that you are seeing when you get the "surplus" text after killing a mob means that amount of EXP is going to some sort of pool where it is currently useless (instead of going towards your level). And that SE is only "looking into" making that "surplus pool" worth anything. My question is, if it's worth nothing, why make a pool in the first place? Why not just start lowering EXP and skip the surplus text after battles? That makes absolutely no sense.


Thats a good question and they really do not have anything planned for the surplus you will accumulate over time. In fact they don't even know what this system really does, it sure does not favour the "casual" players, quite the opposite in fact.

The problem we dealing with here is completely incompetent game design that is even worse than all the restrictions they put into FFXI. It takes it to a new level of stupidity.

It's not based on exp, it is based on time played. 8 hours after you first picked up that weapon you start getting less and less exp (btw, you can't have no weapon/tool so your time is always ticking). If it would be based on experience gained i could see this helping the casual players.

A "hardcore" player will get about 10 times the experience a "casual" player can get in those 8 hours. Why? Because the "casual" player will spend a lot more time looking for a group or playing solo for much less experience than the hardcore player, who only goes out to experience with a perfectly setup group for the max amount of experience per kill.

The casual player will spend a lot more time running around not killing things and therefor wasting his 8h weekly slot for no experience at all.

This does actually HURT the casual players. The hardcores will still be way ahead in no time.

Seriously, SE, have you even thought about this other than the usual: "We have to slow down the players, lets introduce some time based restriction like we always do"?

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#220 Aug 25 2010 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Or once I hit 15 hours I can no longer level that class at all?

That's correct. Once you have played your class for 15 hours in a one-week period, you can no longer level. You have to wait for the next one-week period to begin.

The bonus/surplus exp thing is (as I understand it) like this:

Kill during the first 8 hours:
Gain 100 exp.

Kill during the 9th hour:
Gain 90 exp.
Gain 10 "bonus" exp.

So you're still gaining 100 exp for the kill, it's just that a percentage of it is being dumped into a pool that, at this point in time, does absolutely nothing. It's not being applied towards your level. It's not being converted into some odd point system. It's just getting dumped into a (currently) useless sack of nothingness.

Edit: I have no idea what the actual percentage is. Or even if I'm right. Once again, numbers are simplified for ease of understanding.


Edited, Aug 25th 2010 2:49pm by Nirn
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#221 Aug 25 2010 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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KarlHungis Delivers on Time wrote:
Eske, Star Breaker wrote:
Deadgye wrote:
We should really pitch the "Rested XP" thing to them nonstop. If anyone here has the ability to post actually feedback on the forums, please do so. :3


I am puzzled as to why they didn't just go with that route. It's tried and true, and it accomplishes the same goal that they purport to be achieving with this surplus/fatigue system.


Yes and no. If their goal is to put an absolute cap on progress each week, then rested XP won't accomplish that. Simply making it harder to level would make it more of a grind and for achievement oriented players, would entice them to spend even more hours playing. Of course, this method just frustrates those players and makes them think that maybe they shouldn't play at all, but apparently they're okay with that, or don't take it seriously.


Right, I'm responding to their 'stated' goal of bolstering casual players (as opposed to curbing hardcore players). I can't think of a logical reason to go with the latter other than trying to artificially prolong the amount of time that it takes to get things accomplished in the game.

I'd have said that it's a measure to force people to change classes, but my understanding is that the degradation of physical experience gained continues across class changes. If it were just to force class changes, then there'd be no reason to dampen the experience gained after switching, be it physical experience or class skill.
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#222 Aug 25 2010 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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Dissolution187 wrote:
So I read more posts....the xp that is lost is just bonus xp? Or once I hit 15 hours I can no longer level that class at all? Geezzz so confusing.


NO, i was in Beta and you get no experience, no more leveling for you with that class. Switch the class and you get Class experience but Physical experience carries over to all classes, even crafters.

Once and for all: There is no such thing as BONUS EXPERIENCE. You start at 100% and after 8 hours physical and class experience starts to go down to ZERO. 8 hours after you equipped that class weapon. You can sit around for 8 hours and do nothing. It's not based on experience its based on how long you play that class.
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#223 Aug 25 2010 at 2:59 PM Rating: Good
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I just wanted to say that I am the total definition of a SE fanboy. I love all the games, I try to play all the versions. **** I even got kane and lynch 2 just because it was published by them!! Thats why it causes me so much distress to hear that this idiotic exp system is being implemented by my beloved SE. This really is the kinda thing that makes me want to give up hope already. FF is going downhill, DQ is always the same, KH is becoming milked dry. I do blame it more on the Japanese gaming industry. Japan has just been going downhill these past few years and I am not a Japan hater, for I am Japanese myself. Recently Japan has got it in their head that they need to be more western, this idea spawned FF XIII, who knows the horrible things they'll try next.

The big issue here is that SE is being too vague about the game system. Even with the information just released, all we know is that for 8hrs. exp will be at 100% and the following 7hrs we will see a decrease until we hit 0% exp gain. We also know that this is reset weekly.
We don't know how the exp gain is being calculated. Also this was information translated from the Japanese beta tester site. There could be a possibility of faulty translation and there is also the fact that they haven't put an explanation on the English Beta site. No matter how you look at it this doesn't even feel like they are catering to anyone. Even a casual gamer might want to put a whole day of gaming into his/her week say on a saturday for example. By the time half the day goes by they will be gaining no exp already. This really does seem like they are trying to buy time for more content, which my answer to that is easy. Release the game when its ready SE!! It's like releasing a movie that only has 10 min. viewable. Where sequels would be expansions, where the **** is the rest of the initial movie?!! I know that MMO's are always a work in progress but this is ridiculous.

All I can say is that I will not withdraw my pre-order, simply because by release things might change and the fact that the 1 month free play will be long enough to see if this type of system will be tolerable. **** I can sell it to someone if it turns out crappy. All we can do is complain until SE understands that they need to change this, but I'm scared that if the Japanese players don't complain then SE won't change anything. All I know is all this surplus exp talk really gives me bad headaches. :X

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 5:02pm by hikamikazesama
#224 Aug 25 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Default
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I read this as you have to be in the act of gaining experience...not sitting around. So...8 hours of actual fight time is not the same as 8 hours of time as a specific class.

"To achieve this balance, the amount of possible skill/experience points earned after a certain period of time has a threshold. Think of it as real-life “fatigue” from working at improving your skills via battle *(aka. No one could train ad nauseam in the real world with no ill effects)."

Am I wrong?

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 5:23pm by Simool
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#225 Aug 25 2010 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
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Simool wrote:
Am I wrong?


KindjalFerrer, TWO ******* POSTS above yours wrote:

NO, i was in Beta and you get no experience, no more leveling for you with that class. Switch the class and you get Class experience but Physical experience carries over to all classes, even crafters.

Once and for all: There is no such thing as BONUS EXPERIENCE. You start at 100% and after 8 hours physical and class experience starts to go down to ZERO. 8 hours after you equipped that class weapon. You can sit around for 8 hours and do nothing. It's not based on experience its based on how long you play that class.


Does that answer your question?
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#226ghosthawk09, Posted: Aug 25 2010 at 3:39 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The surplus is not as big of a deal as most of you think, and you are all looking at it incorrectly. The surplus will only affect and aid those who are casual players, but not hinder those who are hardcore players. the surplus is BONUS exp ontop of regular exp. After 8 hours of playing a particular class, your BONUS exp will dwindle down to normal 100% exp, until the next week. think of it as am empress band from 11 auto kicking in once a week and lasting 8 hours of play per class. Its a way to help those who dont have enough time to play. Also it encourages people to level multiple classes, and really, who wouldnt?
#227 Aug 25 2010 at 3:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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ghosthawk09 wrote:
The surplus is not as big of a deal as most of you think, and you are all looking at it incorrectly. The surplus will only affect and aid those who are casual players, but not hinder those who are hardcore players. the surplus is BONUS exp ontop of regular exp. After 8 hours of playing a particular class, your BONUS exp will dwindle down to normal 100% exp, until the next week. think of it as am empress band from 11 auto kicking in once a week and lasting 8 hours of play per class. Its a way to help those who dont have enough time to play. Also it encourages people to level multiple classes, and really, who wouldnt?


Stop spreading misinformation in every post discussing surplus xp. If you spend half the time reading how it works you would know that you will get ZERO XP AFTER 15 hours.

How hard is this to understand?
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#228 Aug 25 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Excellent
ghosthawk09 wrote:
The surplus is not as big of a deal as most of you think, and you are all looking at it incorrectly. The surplus will only affect and aid those who are casual players, but not hinder those who are hardcore players. the surplus is BONUS exp ontop of regular exp. After 8 hours of playing a particular class, your BONUS exp will dwindle down to normal 100% exp, until the next week. think of it as am empress band from 11 auto kicking in once a week and lasting 8 hours of play per class. Its a way to help those who dont have enough time to play. Also it encourages people to level multiple classes, and really, who wouldnt?


No, this is wrong, and you should feel bad. Stop posting fiction.

At the extreme end of the spectrum, your Xp becomes ZERO. Not "zero bonus" but "actually zero." It's not any thing like an Empress Band, unless an Empress Band was required in order to get any experience at all.

If you don't know what the **** you're talking about, then don't chime in.
#229 Aug 25 2010 at 3:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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I love how that racist slimeball Tanaka went off on the playerbase for starting rumors about his precious EXP system. Guess what, the worst of the rumors were pretty on par with what he's planning on implementing. That site reported one hour of play a day, and he's giving us what an hour and 10 minutes? Cancelled my pre-order until SE gets some manners and a better PR.
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#230 Aug 25 2010 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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KarlHungis Delivers on Time wrote:
ghosthawk09 wrote:
The surplus is not as big of a deal as most of you think, and you are all looking at it incorrectly. The surplus will only affect and aid those who are casual players, but not hinder those who are hardcore players. the surplus is BONUS exp ontop of regular exp. After 8 hours of playing a particular class, your BONUS exp will dwindle down to normal 100% exp, until the next week. think of it as am empress band from 11 auto kicking in once a week and lasting 8 hours of play per class. Its a way to help those who dont have enough time to play. Also it encourages people to level multiple classes, and really, who wouldnt?


No, this is wrong, and you should feel bad. Stop posting fiction.

At the extreme end of the spectrum, your Xp becomes ZERO. Not "zero bonus" but "actually zero." It's not any thing like an Empress Band, unless an Empress Band was required in order to get any experience at all.

If you don't know what the **** you're talking about, then don't chime in.


Amen, brother!
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#231 Aug 25 2010 at 3:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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ghosthawk09 wrote:
The surplus is not as big of a deal as most of you think, and you are all looking at it incorrectly. The surplus will only affect and aid those who are casual players, but not hinder those who are hardcore players. the surplus is BONUS exp ontop of regular exp. After 8 hours of playing a particular class, your BONUS exp will dwindle down to normal 100% exp, until the next week. think of it as am empress band from 11 auto kicking in once a week and lasting 8 hours of play per class. Its a way to help those who dont have enough time to play. Also it encourages people to level multiple classes, and really, who wouldnt?


That's cute.....BUT IT'S WROOOOOOONG!

You obviously are not in Beta, you have no idea what you are talking about and on top of that you have not read any of the posts at all. Not even the ones right above yours.

I give up.
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#232 Aug 25 2010 at 3:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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I really don't understand SE's thinking behind this, if they want to make a more casual game, this is not the way to go. Punishing people for having more time than others is just plain counter-productive.

If they're trying to make a game with a good solid community this is not the way to go. People will not bond with a game they can only play effectively for a certain amount of time per week. They'll log in, get their exp, and log out. Nor does this style of play support grouping, it's just as easy to solo (and probably more efficient) if you have only a certain amount of time to gain as much xp as possible. Especially considering how you gain class skill in 14.

It makes no sense for an online game PERIOD. If you're either forced to do everything on your own or have to wait a week before you can play your class again then it may as well be an offline game. Being self-sufficient is a good concept, but being forced to either play classes you have no interest in or to not play at all is ridiculous. (Btw I do not count standing in town and using the game as a glorified chat room as "playing").
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#233 Aug 25 2010 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
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SickleSageKiroh wrote:
I really don't understand SE's thinking behind this, if they want to make a more casual game, this is not the way to go. Punishing people for having more time than others is just plain counter-productive.

If they're trying to make a game with a good solid community this is not the way to go. People will not bond with a game they can only play effectively for a certain amount of time per week. They'll log in, get their exp, and log out. Nor does this style of play support grouping, it's just as easy to solo (and probably more efficient) if you have only a certain amount of time to gain as much xp as possible. Especially considering how you gain class skill in 14.

It makes no sense for an online game PERIOD. If you're either forced to do everything on your own or have to wait a week before you can play your class again then it may as well be an offline game. Being self-sufficient is a good concept, but being forced to either play classes you have no interest in or to not play at all is ridiculous. (Btw I do not count standing in town and using the game as a glorified chat room as "playing").


I totally agree with you. The biggest problem i see here is the party play. What is your LS going to do the rest of the week if all your healers/nukers are fatigued? You expect them to come anyways and gain no experience at all? There are only 2 Magic classes and they are the only ones that will have an INT/MND/PIT build, they simply can not play a melee class with those attributes. So they get royally screwed and drag down the whole LS/group with them.

It's mind blowing how stupid this whole idea is. I am already at the point to write it off as a smart marketing scheme to get on the first page and then announce the great new Bonus experience system and tell everyone that someone made a mistake explaining it in the first place.

Let's hope...thats all we have left.
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#234 Aug 25 2010 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
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KindjalFerrer wrote:
It's mind blowing how stupid this whole idea is. I am already at the point to write it off as a smart marketing scheme to get on the first page and then announce the great new Bonus experience system and tell everyone that someone made a mistake explaining it in the first place.

Let's hope...thats all we have left.


*shrug* Why not, worked for ActiBliz when they announced their whole RealID thing. Just throw the announcement out there, wait for the FAN RAEG to reach critical mass, then announce that they're dialing it back (in ActiBliz's case: your real name is still forcibly attached to your account, you just don't have it attached when posting on their forums anymore) and hey, everything's all peachy keen again.

Of course, I suspect that this is giving the marketing minds at SE just a little bit too much credit...

If there was, at any point in time, any doubt in my mind that choosing NOT to preorder the CE in the first place was the right decision...

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 6:15pm by RajiFarlander
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#235 Aug 25 2010 at 4:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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This system makes even less sense after having read this thread.

It might not suck so bad (I think?) if the cooldown was like, 2 days for 8 hours.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 5:11pm by bsphil
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#236 Aug 25 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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This has got to be one of the worst possible ways to present an incentive to people that cannot devote lots of time to the game. I am in the beta, and this has never happened to me (mainly because I run out of guild leves and don't want to spend hours leveling when it'll just be erased two weeks later) but just the idea of a punishment, because let's not mince words that is what this is, for playing is insane. The kicker for me is the cooling period is 7 days.

This doesn't hurt anyone at endgame, and this doesn't hurt dual-boxing power leveling hardcore players, as was said this hurts anyone seeking party or just messing around with the intent to level.

Throw me in with the unruly mob on this one, and I usually hate mobs.
#237 Aug 25 2010 at 4:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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For now at least, it's still a bit ambiguous if this'll be a total disaster or not. For now in the beta, I've yet to see STR/VIT/DEX/INT/MND/PIE make any difference at all, I can't tell what the difference between a physical level of 1 and a physical level of 15 is, stuff like racial differences/birthsigns/etc aren't even in place, and so on. Maybe once the game actually goes live and all of the content missing or disabled for the beta is implemented, having a cut into your class exp won't be as big of a deal because physical level will be so much more important... but SE has done a **** poor job of explaining that if that happens to be the case.
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#238 Aug 25 2010 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Does anyone know if it counts when ur in passive mode? Maybe counter will only run while ur weapon is out? if not then I gotta start thinking of classes I don't care about so I can run around with.
#239 Aug 25 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
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is it a possible... i'll try to explain this the best i can...

that after you're fatigued and receiving less exp per kill, that the extra exp goes into 'surplus'.

this surplus will be used the following week... say JP midnight on Sundays.

so we'll say the limit per week is 150,000 exp. if I received 250,000 exp this week... next week to reach the weekly cap i'll only need 50,000 exp?

SE is basically putting levelling restrictions on us so we don't reach cap too fast, but won't it kind of boring if everyone on the server reaches cap at the same time? and won't the people who only ordered the SE version of the game always be a week behind and never be able to catch up until cap?

it's just a theory, not even a particularly well thought out theory, but just thinking out loud mostly.
#240 Aug 25 2010 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
is it a possible... i'll try to explain this the best i can...

that after you're fatigued and receiving less exp per kill, that the extra exp goes into 'surplus'.

this surplus will be used the following week... say JP midnight on Sundays.

so we'll say the limit per week is 150,000 exp. if I received 250,000 exp this week... next week to reach the weekly cap i'll only need 50,000 exp?

SE is basically putting levelling restrictions on us so we don't reach cap too fast, but won't it kind of boring if everyone on the server reaches cap at the same time? and won't the people who only ordered the SE version of the game always be a week behind and never be able to catch up until cap?

it's just a theory, not even a particularly well thought out theory, but just thinking out loud mostly.


They indicated in their post today that surplus xp did absolutely nothing. While viewing players feedback, such as yours, they acknowledged "hey, that's a great idea, we'll consider that", as a way to deflect the negative and try turning it into something positive.

I'm not buying it. They also don't give a rats *** about hardware mouse to boot!

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#241 Aug 25 2010 at 5:10 PM Rating: Default
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I actually like the system. Its probably pretty severe right now because its a beta and I have a feeling it will be adjusted during release.
I like it though, because it gives a chance for people who can't play for 8 hours a day every day of the week a way to some what keep up with people who can. However, I'm not entirely sure I like that it goes all the way down to zero. :(
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#242 Aug 25 2010 at 5:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Autumnfire wrote:
I actually like the system. Its probably pretty severe right now because its a beta and I have a feeling it will be adjusted during release.
I like it though, because it gives a chance for people who can't play for 8 hours a day every day of the week a way to some what keep up with people who can. However, I'm not entirely sure I like that it goes all the way down to zero. :(


That's why there's a rather strict duration for Guildleves, so you folks who can't play much will likely always have one available, and those who play more, won't get to use them often.

I think that's good enough from my chair.
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#243 Aug 25 2010 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
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KnocturnalOne wrote:
ShonaSeraph wrote:
is it a possible... i'll try to explain this the best i can...

that after you're fatigued and receiving less exp per kill, that the extra exp goes into 'surplus'.

this surplus will be used the following week... say JP midnight on Sundays.

so we'll say the limit per week is 150,000 exp. if I received 250,000 exp this week... next week to reach the weekly cap i'll only need 50,000 exp?

SE is basically putting levelling restrictions on us so we don't reach cap too fast, but won't it kind of boring if everyone on the server reaches cap at the same time? and won't the people who only ordered the SE version of the game always be a week behind and never be able to catch up until cap?

it's just a theory, not even a particularly well thought out theory, but just thinking out loud mostly.


They indicated in their post today that surplus xp did absolutely nothing. While viewing players feedback, such as yours, they acknowledged "hey, that's a great idea, we'll consider that", as a way to deflect the negative and try turning it into something positive.

I'm not buying it. They also don't give a rats *** about hardware mouse to boot!


The problem i see would be having a hardcap every week.
it would have to be numbers-based as opposed to time based. Someone could accidentally leave their character in active mode and go to the store, and be gone for a few hours. Then they come back and lose all that time? i doubt that makes sense. it would be numbers-based. Like say 100k exp per week. (I'm just throwing a number out there for the sake of having a number)

After 100k exp, nothing you do gives anymore exp. So if i can achieve 100k exp by solo'ing every week in 10 hours for instance, what reason would there be for me to ever group and try to maximize anything if i know I'm bound to 100k exp every week.
It's quite clearly a way for SE to stop people from reaching cap, most likely for lack of endgame content right now. If they make a system where it makes it impossible for anyone to reach cap before say April, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Would people prefer to play the game now and be somewhat restricted? or wait another 6 months for endgame content to be finished?
#244 Aug 25 2010 at 5:16 PM Rating: Good
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KnocturnalOne wrote:
ShonaSeraph wrote:
is it a possible... i'll try to explain this the best i can...

that after you're fatigued and receiving less exp per kill, that the extra exp goes into 'surplus'.

this surplus will be used the following week... say JP midnight on Sundays.

so we'll say the limit per week is 150,000 exp. if I received 250,000 exp this week... next week to reach the weekly cap i'll only need 50,000 exp?

SE is basically putting levelling restrictions on us so we don't reach cap too fast, but won't it kind of boring if everyone on the server reaches cap at the same time? and won't the people who only ordered the SE version of the game always be a week behind and never be able to catch up until cap?

it's just a theory, not even a particularly well thought out theory, but just thinking out loud mostly.


They indicated in their post today that surplus xp did absolutely nothing. While viewing players feedback, such as yours, they acknowledged "hey, that's a great idea, we'll consider that", as a way to deflect the negative and try turning it into something positive.

I'm not buying it. They also don't give a rats *** about hardware mouse to boot!


Yeah I'm getting kinda annoyed at Tanaka and SE as a whole with these issues, there's an article on FFXIVCore that sums up why. The whole "foreigner" comment needs to be apologized for on principle.

On a side not, I know that looks mean very little, but Tanaka even looks like a grumpy old man, he looks like a guy who would say "Get out of my restaurant you little white boy, the fortune cookie is Chinese!". In my defense I was only 14 when this happened.
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#245 Aug 25 2010 at 5:18 PM Rating: Decent
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
KnocturnalOne wrote:
ShonaSeraph wrote:
is it a possible... i'll try to explain this the best i can...

that after you're fatigued and receiving less exp per kill, that the extra exp goes into 'surplus'.

this surplus will be used the following week... say JP midnight on Sundays.

so we'll say the limit per week is 150,000 exp. if I received 250,000 exp this week... next week to reach the weekly cap i'll only need 50,000 exp?

SE is basically putting levelling restrictions on us so we don't reach cap too fast, but won't it kind of boring if everyone on the server reaches cap at the same time? and won't the people who only ordered the SE version of the game always be a week behind and never be able to catch up until cap?

it's just a theory, not even a particularly well thought out theory, but just thinking out loud mostly.


They indicated in their post today that surplus xp did absolutely nothing. While viewing players feedback, such as yours, they acknowledged "hey, that's a great idea, we'll consider that", as a way to deflect the negative and try turning it into something positive.

I'm not buying it. They also don't give a rats *** about hardware mouse to boot!


The problem i see would be having a hardcap every week.
it would have to be numbers-based as opposed to time based. Someone could accidentally leave their character in active mode and go to the store, and be gone for a few hours. Then they come back and lose all that time? i doubt that makes sense. it would be numbers-based. Like say 100k exp per week. (I'm just throwing a number out there for the sake of having a number)

After 100k exp, nothing you do gives anymore exp. So if i can achieve 100k exp by solo'ing every week in 10 hours for instance, what reason would there be for me to ever group and try to maximize anything if i know I'm bound to 100k exp every week.
It's quite clearly a way for SE to stop people from reaching cap, most likely for lack of endgame content right now. If they make a system where it makes it impossible for anyone to reach cap before say April, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Would people prefer to play the game now and be somewhat restricted? or wait another 6 months for endgame content to be finished?


First, your comment about time as opposed to exp based restrictions, I am basing my entire stance off it being time based, since that's explicitly what they stated today. Nowhere they indicate otherwise.

To answer your question about being restricted or waiting for endgame content...I would hope that after 5 years of development it would be neither. I should have no restriction and there should be some endgame content. I'm not talking about nowhere near the amount of FFXI, but ****, it should at a minimum have a SKY type area to start...
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#246 Aug 25 2010 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
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If it is indeed time-based, wouldn't that lead to maximizing efficiency, leading to elitism and casual players not being invited to do anything? isn't SE trying to avoid this?
#247 Aug 25 2010 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
If it is indeed time-based, wouldn't that lead to maximizing efficiency, leading to elitism and casual players not being invited to do anything? isn't SE trying to avoid this?


It certainly would. I know I sure as heck wouldn't join up with some random party wasting my 8 hours not getting maximum xp in return...
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#248 Aug 25 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
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Let's assume the worst.
If SE doesn't changes this, that means you can level your main class every 15 hours.
This basically forces you to play other classes.

Now, following SE's mentality, you won't really see "pure" classes.
Wasn't this what SE wanted from the very start?
A "classless" system where players can make their own character freely?

Don't get me wrong, I actually dislike the idea of being limited to how much I play, especially since I'm paying for the game. However, maybe it's not as bad as it seems.

This encourages:

a) Parties, parties and more parties!
People will want the most EXP from their 15 hours, meaning that they will probably party a lot. That's actually not bad, as partying is one of the game's most interesting aspects.

b) A "classless" class system
SE wanted this from the very beginning. In essence, every single character will be different, adding a personal touch (abilities, customization, etc.) Being different is good, isn't it?

c) A stable economy
Many players will probably do crafting while waiting for the Surplus EXP. Maybe we'll see less RMT intervention in the market with this, meaning that we won't have to buy overpriced things.

d) Cripples RMT advancement
The less RMT level, the less they can farm. They will be limited to farm low level resources, which should be easily obtained as a regular player.
They will eventually reach higher tiers, however, they will also get banned in the way. This will take them twice as long to monopolize the market.

Maybe I'm too **** optimistic, or just plain naive. Either way, we should hope for the best, for FFXIV is the game many of us have been waiting for a long time.
#249 Aug 25 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Gadhelyn wrote:
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Actually I believe it's not that they're trying to kill their game but trying to not kill their player base, if you read some of the articles on game addiction coming from Korea. People letting babies starve to death or themselves die of kidney failure just because they haven't left the game in 72+ hours. It's just SE wanting to make sure their players are responsible in the real world, too! How many people here are in school or have jobs or significant others or families?


I'm sorry, but that's like getting morbidly obese from eating McDonald's everyday and then suing them because "they made you get fat".

People are responsible for themselves. If SE is doing this partly because of MMO addiction, that is a really bad reason.

If you think you'll get that addicted to MMO's, DONT PLAY THEM.


Actually it's more like McDonald's seeing the people who have become morbidly obese because of their food and replacing their menu with healthy, all vegetable, no fat, low cal, low cholestrol, low sodium foods.


Yeah you're right, it is like that. And that would also be a really stupid business plan for McDonald's and could very well put them out of business. There is a reason why they serve what they serve, there is a market for it. Taking a way the demand because a few people can't control themselves is a bad business plan that could put the #1 restaurant chain out of business. Same principle here with SE. Let people decide how they want to play the game. Yes, some will likely ruin their own lives, but those people were hopeless anyway. The rest of us know how to make our own decisions and do not need assistance on how to live our lives.
#250 Aug 25 2010 at 6:10 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Wasn't this what SE wanted from the very start?
A "classless" system where players can make their own character freely?


I'm starting to wonder if they didn't take that line as a way to push the fatigue system at a later time of their choosing. It seems like a very highly coordinated [and now failed] marketing ploy to get their customers to swallow fatigue.
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#251 Aug 25 2010 at 6:16 PM Rating: Decent
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"Within the first eight hours of play, you can earn 100% experience. The seven hour period following will see your possible experience gradually approach zero.

This system is on a weekly timer. After a week has passed since you began skilling that particular weapon, the timer will reset. It will start anew when you skill up again.

Any experience earned past that point is saved as “surplus.” There is surplus for each class, and if you begin to see it please consider playing another class and adjust accordingly.

However, experience points are not specific to any class and therefore the decrease in experience points is not affected by changing classes.


This tells me that I can spend 15 hours leveling my Archer before I should try another job. Which is fine by me, after 15 hours of shooting arrows at **** I'll need some change. So i'll move to a DoH job and spend another 15 hours. Then I can work on another Dow job to mix with Archer. Think by that time a week will have past thanks to my job taking up 40 hours.
The part where they save the exp is "saved" suggest that it can be used at a later tme but then they "suggest" changing to another clas, for what? To prevent to much saved surpluse exp???
I wish they would say what kind of exp exectly, is that for your physical level or skills for your weapon, if it's both then what good would changing your weapon do as stated in the second line.




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