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Surplus experience system officially explained by SEFollow

#252 Aug 25 2010 at 6:17 PM Rating: Decent
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The general consensus here seems to be that this is time based. I don't think this is the case. I know they specifically mention the 8 hour time period, but I think they meant that as an estimate of the average time frame that their point cap would result in through continued battle. He states that people were hitting this cap more quickly than expected in beta 3 due to increases in how fast people could gain skill and XP.

Quote:
Also, this system wasn’t implemented just in B3 but was set in motion from the very start of beta. Despite this, we have received many opinions regarding it in B3. There are a few reasons why:

-B3 allowed for longer sessions in single sittings.
-In order to promote party play, skill/experience points earned were greatly increased.
-The skill/experience earned from weak enemies was lowered, but had failed to pop up on initial bug reports (and was later fixed via maintenance).

According to the last bug report skill/experience able to be earned was above what had been planned, therefore people hit the limit much more quickly than hoped for. That is the biggest cause. Yet another problem was that we were unable to adjust guildleve experience and the experience-earned limit at the same time.


I think its clear that they were saying people were hitting the caps faster due to faster XP gain. I think that it would be difficult to drastically change the content of that statement through mistranslation. [that's my opinion atleast]. But, in comparison, the other statements specifically about the nature of this limitation can be much more easily lost in translation. Not to mention, a hard XP cap would be much simpler to program and impliment as well as much more effective than timers going on and off whenever you change weapons or go in or out of active mode.

While I haven't played in beta, most of what I've read of people experiences seem to support this. As in people hitting surplus after alot of point gains, but not when leaving their characters idle.

One other person on this thread made a post explaining the same thing [with an amusing time warp anecdote] but everyone ignored him.


I think that if they made the cap numbers along the lines of what 8 hours straight of optimized party grinding XP would be, than it would turn out to actually be well more than 8 hours for most people. I'm hoping this is the case.

Also, if you look at what was said after the explanation of the system in its current state:
Quote:
That’s how the system stands as of right now.


and than at the following statement:
Quote:
This all is still currently under development, and we have plans to make the limit more palatable in answer to all the tester feedback we received concerning this. In particular we would like to address the speed with which experience begins to drop off and are already looking into it.


I pretty much take that to mean 'we are going to increase the limit'. So whatever it was, it's gonna be more, i.e. more than 8 hours.
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#253 Aug 25 2010 at 6:17 PM Rating: Good
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KnocturnalOne wrote:
ShonaSeraph wrote:
If it is indeed time-based, wouldn't that lead to maximizing efficiency, leading to elitism and casual players not being invited to do anything? isn't SE trying to avoid this?


It certainly would. I know I sure as heck wouldn't join up with some random party wasting my 8 hours not getting maximum xp in return...


Exactly my point. It hurts casuals more than the hardcores. Hardcore groups will still find a way to maximize the exp in those 8-15h. Casual players will be stuck solo or in pugs with crappy exp.

I just logged out of Beta3 as it ended. I am by no means an ultra hardcore player, i tried 2 classes, 2 crafts and fishing but even i hit the yellow "surplus" experience and i switched a lot.

Not to mention the annoying "You where unable to obtain anything" fatigue you get when Harvesting/Mining/Fishing.

Crafting is even worse, you put in a decent crafting sessions, for example: I made a stack of Table Salt i needed and then went to make 4 stacks of Salted Cod.

Towards the end i was getting more physical experience than class experience which added to my "surplus" i already built up on the fighting classes.

With crafting you can go 5+ crafts without any crafting experience at all, just physical experience. It's much like FFXI at 60+ but i was making a recipe level 5 and still only got skillups every other craft until fatigue hit and i saw skillups only once every 4-5 crafts.

SE has to stop with all these restrictions and methods to annoy and slow down the paying customers.

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#254 Aug 25 2010 at 6:18 PM Rating: Good
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Edit: I'm sorry, double post.
Stupid browser...

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 8:19pm by Skibit
#255 Aug 25 2010 at 6:18 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'm starting to wonder if they didn't take that line as a way to push the fatigue system at a later time of their choosing. It seems like a very highly coordinated [and now failed] marketing ploy to get their customers to swallow fatigue.

It could be, considering many JP games have some sort of "Stamina" to make players play less.
SE is forgetting half of the community isn't JP, though.

I wonder how bad MMO addiction is over there. I mean, limiting the amount of time people can play? Seems rather harsh, from my point of view at least.
#256 Aug 25 2010 at 6:24 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
This system makes even less sense after having read this thread.

It might not suck so bad (I think?) if the cooldown was like, 2 days for 8 hours.


^ this. I don't really have a problem with the job system per se, it kind of reminds me of the job system in Tactics. I do get where the majority of people are coming from though, it just doesn't affect me that much since I'm going to be much more casual than I was in XI because of other obligations. My main gripe is the cooldown on the whole mess. Why not set it @ 48 hours like the guildleves? It wouldn't be ideal but a **** sight better than a week...or change the 15 hour thing to a straight 8 or 6 even, but have it roll over every day.

Edit: The part that I find super annoying is that they had no plan for Surplus XP. I mean even if they kept the fatigue system in place but allowed you to get bonus xp once the cooldown had passed up to the limit of your accrued surplus, kind of like a built in Emp Band, that would be ok with me...but no plan?

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 5:28pm by SkinwalkerAsura
#257 Aug 25 2010 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Ok, I have spent a lot of time reading all these posts and comprising my full understanding of surplus and how it will affect/impare/help the player base.

First off, let's look at how the player levels - class and physical level. Classes level, skill, up based on their weapon. Since being a level 50 lancer has very little efficacy to a fresh starting level 1 conjurer, physical level is the bridge between class changes. This, in essence of ffxi terms would be a universal subjob. More stat allocations and something "tangible" to move from class to class while leveling. Since you can level a class up along with physical level, it would only make sense to tax, or surplus in stupid SE terms, the physical level since it will level up with each class regardless. That way you don't have one class at 50 powering through the game and then have a maxed out physical level to throw off the dynamics of the other classes.

It is for this reason the tax, surplus, on the physical level never gets refreshed from the class change. However, because someone can hit the surplus for a class and then start losing class xp (skill), SE has allowed us the gracious ability to swap to a different class to keep playing the game. This allows someone to develop their character further without getting crazy physical level ups to over throw the balance of the game.

Example: I level my lancer to 20, have a physical level of 20, swap to gladiator and level 20 more levels, I'm not a 40 physical level/20 class level gladiator. *btw i know the xp per lvl wouldn't be so straight forward, just illustrating* That is why the tax is never lifted on the physical level.

Now, to dispel a rumor I have been reading for many posts about equipping a weapon and that starts the count down to your week long wait to get surplus lifted, that is incorrect. The translation illuminated a very important point, surplus timers only affect you when you are engaged in battle. People are freaking out about 15 hours of xp, guys! this is 15 hours of ENGAGED COMBAT. I know there are some hardcore xp'ers out there, but how many of us have in a week have really been engaged in combat for 15 hours? And that is only for the physical level, you can change classes and start a fresh 15 hours on another class. If you really have THAT much free time to make this an issue, WOW, share some lottery money and help me take the year off too! But in all seriousness, it is a lot of grinding time. Not too mention that some beta testers have posted that after swapping classes, the original class got some of its surplus lifted and went back to regular xp. The big point about surplus xp is that is slows physical leveling, so people can't max their allocation points and throw off the balance of the game early.

Down the road there will adjustments and changes to this system, hopefully that utilize the lost surplus xp. But for those ffxi players out there, once you got a 75, how often did you level another job? Sure we all had subjobs and what not, but aside from a the select few Maat's Cap wearers, people probably averaged 4-6 75's. Xp wasn't even a big deal anymore, not will surplus matter once the game is out for awhile and you have some capped classes. We don't lose xp when we die so we won't struggle to re-fight the surplus on a level'd class in this game. Get done to BE done.
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#258 Aug 25 2010 at 6:38 PM Rating: Good
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SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Quote:
This system makes even less sense after having read this thread.

It might not suck so bad (I think?) if the cooldown was like, 2 days for 8 hours.


^ this. I don't really have a problem with the job system per se, it kind of reminds me of the job system in Tactics. I do get where the majority of people are coming from though, it just doesn't affect me that much since I'm going to be much more casual than I was in XI because of other obligations. My main gripe is the cooldown on the whole mess. Why not set it @ 48 hours like the guildleves? It wouldn't be ideal but a **** sight better than a week...or change the 15 hour thing to a straight 8 or 6 even, but have it roll over every day.

Edit: The part that I find super annoying is that they had no plan for Surplus XP. I mean even if they kept the fatigue system in place but allowed you to get bonus xp once the cooldown had passed up to the limit of your accrued surplus, kind of like a built in Emp Band, that would be ok with me...but no plan?

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 5:28pm by SkinwalkerAsura


It just shows that they have no clue at all what they are doing. It's funny, i saw people DING! on surplus like it's a regular exp system. It really gets hillarious if you congratulate someone to reach Rank 3 Surplus. It's not a rare sight either, all players above 20-25 had at least some form of surplus or Ranks in it.

I can't but wonder that this surplus exp was initially used for something else that was not detrimetnal to the player and they simply bastardized it to what it is now.

Why on earth would you get a Leve-up from lost experience? Thats just like spiting in your face after stealing all your experience.
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#259 Aug 25 2010 at 6:50 PM Rating: Good
RSquires wrote:


This tells me that I can spend 15 hours leveling my Archer before I should try another job. Which is fine by me, after 15 hours of shooting arrows at sh*t I'll need some change. So i'll move to a DoH job and spend another 15 hours. Then I can work on another Dow job to mix with Archer. Think by that time a week will have past thanks to my job taking up 40 hours.
The part where they save the exp is "saved" suggest that it can be used at a later tme but then they "suggest" changing to another clas, for what? To prevent to much saved surpluse exp???
I wish they would say what kind of exp exectly, is that for your physical level or skills for your weapon, if it's both then what good would changing your weapon do as stated in the second line.


Once you've actually played, it won't seem ambiguous. Experience, as opposed to Sword Experience or Hand to Hand Experience, is used for physical level. That's the part that stays capped where it's at, even if you swap classes.

Class experience (Sword, Hand to Hand, Botany, Blacksmithing, etc) is the stuff that gets capped on one class, but when you swap to a different class, become uncapped for that class.

Currently, 'Surplus' experience shows up as sort of a pool of experience that empties out each week, but that pool of experience can't actually be used for any thing. it's more of a reminder to tell you "Hey stupid, if you'd switched classes like you're supposed to, you'd already have 10 more levels on that class!" It's possible that at some point in the future that surplus XP will be used for some thing cool, but right now it isn't.

Short version: Switch to a different class some time after you've logged 8 hours for the week and before you hit 15. Don't worry about physical experience, there's nothing you can do about that either way.
#260 Aug 25 2010 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
It just shows that they have no clue at all what they are doing. It's funny, i saw people DING! on surplus like it's a regular exp system. It really gets hillarious if you congratulate someone to reach Rank 3 Surplus. It's not a rare sight either, all players above 20-25 had at least some form of surplus or Ranks in it.

I can't but wonder that this surplus exp was initially used for something else that was not detrimetnal to the player and they simply bastardized it to what it is now.


I'm almost sure that surplus xp was originally used for something, it's such an odd way of doing things that it had to be for something else they either removed or don't want to use yet.
Quote:

Why on earth would you get a Leve-up from lost experience? Thats just like spiting in your face after stealing all your experience.


I'm viewing it as a bank. Like when you deposit a check but can't use the funds till the check clears. Set a purpose for it, use it as bonus xp when you want or buy some sort of bonus goodies, anything. Granted, it's not the same as actually getting the xp the first time, but at least it's SOMETHING. To me, better than just watching it go up in smoke if you can't or won't change jobs.
#261 Aug 25 2010 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
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I think everything will become clear once we figure out what we can use surplus xp for.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 8:59pm by Oenos
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#262 Aug 25 2010 at 6:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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SkyeAyatari wrote:
Ok, I have spent a lot of time reading all these posts and comprising my full understanding of surplus and how it will affect/impare/help the player base.

First off, let's look at how the player levels - class and physical level. Classes level, skill, up based on their weapon. Since being a level 50 lancer has very little efficacy to a fresh starting level 1 conjurer, physical level is the bridge between class changes. This, in essence of ffxi terms would be a universal subjob. More stat allocations and something "tangible" to move from class to class while leveling. Since you can level a class up along with physical level, it would only make sense to tax, or surplus in stupid SE terms, the physical level since it will level up with each class regardless. That way you don't have one class at 50 powering through the game and then have a maxed out physical level to throw off the dynamics of the other classes.


That would be nice but you seem to forget that you can't switch from Lance to Conjurer unless you want a lol-melee Conjurer with DEX and STR. Oh you don't? Well, tough luck.

Once you decided for a class and build you are pretty much locked into that. If you go Tank you will stink as DD. The system is in fact LESS flexible than FFXI because the basic stats do not change when you change jobs.

Spent all your points in INT, MND and PIE? Tough luck buddy, no more melee classes for you.

Built a high VIT, MND and PIE Gladiator PLD style? Watch everyone lol when you come as Marauder with on STR.

No matter how much you want to twist and turn it, the system is broken from the start and the surplus and the fatigue are just adding insult to injury.
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#263 Aug 25 2010 at 6:53 PM Rating: Decent
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SkyeAyatari wrote:
Ok, I have spent a lot of time reading all these posts and comprising my full understanding of surplus and how it will affect/impare/help the player base.

First off, let's look at how the player levels - class and physical level. Classes level, skill, up based on their weapon. Since being a level 50 lancer has very little efficacy to a fresh starting level 1 conjurer, physical level is the bridge between class changes. This, in essence of ffxi terms would be a universal subjob. More stat allocations and something "tangible" to move from class to class while leveling. Since you can level a class up along with physical level, it would only make sense to tax, or surplus in stupid SE terms, the physical level since it will level up with each class regardless. That way you don't have one class at 50 powering through the game and then have a maxed out physical level to throw off the dynamics of the other classes.

It is for this reason the tax, surplus, on the physical level never gets refreshed from the class change. However, because someone can hit the surplus for a class and then start losing class xp (skill), SE has allowed us the gracious ability to swap to a different class to keep playing the game. This allows someone to develop their character further without getting crazy physical level ups to over throw the balance of the game.

Example: I level my lancer to 20, have a physical level of 20, swap to gladiator and level 20 more levels, I'm not a 40 physical level/20 class level gladiator. *btw i know the xp per lvl wouldn't be so straight forward, just illustrating* That is why the tax is never lifted on the physical level.

Now, to dispel a rumor I have been reading for many posts about equipping a weapon and that starts the count down to your week long wait to get surplus lifted, that is incorrect. The translation illuminated a very important point, surplus timers only affect you when you are engaged in battle. People are freaking out about 15 hours of xp, guys! this is 15 hours of ENGAGED COMBAT. I know there are some hardcore xp'ers out there, but how many of us have in a week have really been engaged in combat for 15 hours? And that is only for the physical level, you can change classes and start a fresh 15 hours on another class. If you really have THAT much free time to make this an issue, WOW, share some lottery money and help me take the year off too! But in all seriousness, it is a lot of grinding time. Not too mention that some beta testers have posted that after swapping classes, the original class got some of its surplus lifted and went back to regular xp. The big point about surplus xp is that is slows physical leveling, so people can't max their allocation points and throw off the balance of the game early.

Down the road there will adjustments and changes to this system, hopefully that utilize the lost surplus xp. But for those ffxi players out there, once you got a 75, how often did you level another job? Sure we all had subjobs and what not, but aside from a the select few Maat's Cap wearers, people probably averaged 4-6 75's. Xp wasn't even a big deal anymore, not will surplus matter once the game is out for awhile and you have some capped classes. We don't lose xp when we die so we won't struggle to re-fight the surplus on a level'd class in this game. Get done to BE done.


I agree 100% on the 15 hours. That's 15 leveling Archer, 15 hours leveling a support craft and another 15 hours leveling another DoW job to cross train with my Archer...Let's see......168 hours a week, minus 40 hours for a job(assuming I don't get OT), minus 35 hours of ffxiv combat gameplay (assuming I only do 3 jobs), minus 42 hours of sleep....that leaves me with 51 hours a week. Let's hope I don't get overtime or decide to mess around with another job. That 15 hours seems good to me. I'm sure there are plenty of people that won't agree with me but for my time frame, it works just fine.
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#264 Aug 25 2010 at 6:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
That would be nice but you seem to forget that you can't switch from Lance to Conjurer unless you want a lol-melee Conjurer with DEX and STR. Oh you don't? Well, tough luck.

Once you decided for a class and build you are pretty much locked into that. If you go Tank you will stink as DD. The system is in fact LESS flexible than FFXI because the basic stats do not change when you change jobs.

Spent all your points in INT, MND and PIE? Tough luck buddy, no more melee classes for you.

Built a high VIT, MND and PIE Gladiator PLD style? Watch everyone lol when you come as Marauder with on STR.

No matter how much you want to twist and turn it, the system is broken from the start and the surplus and the fatigue are just adding insult to injury.



You are right to an extent, but you can change your stat allocations. Yes it is flawed right now, but after tweaking, it will still emphasize my point.
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#265 Aug 25 2010 at 6:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm not sure it's a Big Brother system designed to inhibit playing time per class per se...the way I see it, it's more of a way to make sure that we will see most players changing classes regularly to ensure that each server will have a balanced mix of players with a broad range of skills (i.e. it seems to be designed to avoid LFP syndrome which so heavily plagued FFXI).

Of course, I could be wrong. But it would be nice to get an official statement as to how the system works, and SE's objectives in implementing the Surplus system.
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#266 Aug 25 2010 at 7:03 PM Rating: Decent
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KarlHungis Delivers on Time wrote:
RSquires wrote:


This tells me that I can spend 15 hours leveling my Archer before I should try another job. Which is fine by me, after 15 hours of shooting arrows at sh*t I'll need some change. So i'll move to a DoH job and spend another 15 hours. Then I can work on another Dow job to mix with Archer. Think by that time a week will have past thanks to my job taking up 40 hours.
The part where they save the exp is "saved" suggest that it can be used at a later tme but then they "suggest" changing to another clas, for what? To prevent to much saved surpluse exp???
I wish they would say what kind of exp exectly, is that for your physical level or skills for your weapon, if it's both then what good would changing your weapon do as stated in the second line.


Once you've actually played, it won't seem ambiguous. Experience, as opposed to Sword Experience or Hand to Hand Experience, is used for physical level. That's the part that stays capped where it's at, even if you swap classes.

Class experience (Sword, Hand to Hand, Botany, Blacksmithing, etc) is the stuff that gets capped on one class, but when you swap to a different class, become uncapped for that class.

Currently, 'Surplus' experience shows up as sort of a pool of experience that empties out each week, but that pool of experience can't actually be used for any thing. it's more of a reminder to tell you "Hey stupid, if you'd switched classes like you're supposed to, you'd already have 10 more levels on that class!" It's possible that at some point in the future that surplus XP will be used for some thing cool, but right now it isn't.

Short version: Switch to a different class some time after you've logged 8 hours for the week and before you hit 15. Don't worry about physical experience, there's nothing you can do about that either way.



ahhhh, i gotcha, thanks.
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#267 Aug 25 2010 at 7:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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SkyeAyatari wrote:
Quote:
That would be nice but you seem to forget that you can't switch from Lance to Conjurer unless you want a lol-melee Conjurer with DEX and STR. Oh you don't? Well, tough luck.

Once you decided for a class and build you are pretty much locked into that. If you go Tank you will stink as DD. The system is in fact LESS flexible than FFXI because the basic stats do not change when you change jobs.

Spent all your points in INT, MND and PIE? Tough luck buddy, no more melee classes for you.

Built a high VIT, MND and PIE Gladiator PLD style? Watch everyone lol when you come as Marauder with on STR.

No matter how much you want to twist and turn it, the system is broken from the start and the surplus and the fatigue are just adding insult to injury.



You are right to an extent, but you can change your stat allocations. Yes it is flawed right now, but after tweaking, it will still emphasize my point.


In Beta3 you could only adjust 50% of your stat points. The rest did not reset. It took the 50% equally form all stats you raised. So you are still stuck with 50% of the "wrong" stats. Given they might change this, right now it's crap.

As to your comment about the 15 hours, you wish! At 100% you get about 50-100 class experience per kill solo, Party experience was even worse but they promised to fix it.

If you get an average of 70 class experience even 10% start to hurt and thats right at the 8h mark. It's like FFXI weapon skillups, you get exp points for landing attacks, but not every attack and the exp varies greatly. I saw 10-20 xlass experience on my puglist with decent challange kind of mobs. I also saw the odd 120exp. But generally its at the low end and reducing that even more is just harsh.

Let's hope they will do a lot of tweaking in Open beta. I don't mind slow leveling, what really gets me angry is if i get restricted by any form timer that prevents me to do something i want to do NOW and not in a week.

To illustrate my point, here is a link to a screenshot:

Screenshot

1. This is doing guildleve that gives a huge bonus to experience
2. This was right after killing an IT Nannygoat which are a bit like campaign mobs, they con IT but hahe a truckload of HP and hit a lot harder than regular IT mobs.
3. This is at 10% class surplus.



Edited, Aug 26th 2010 3:16am by KindjalFerrer
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#268 Aug 25 2010 at 7:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
As to your comment about the 15 hours, you wish! At 100% you get about 50-100 class experience per kill solo, Party experience was even worse but they promised to fix it.


what do you mean about the 15 hours? you get 8 hours of 100% xp and 7 hours of gradual degraded xp, per class and always on physical level. what does "At 100% you get about 50-100 class experience per kill solo, Party experience was even worse but they promised to fix it." have to do with the 15 hour thing?

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#269 Aug 25 2010 at 7:19 PM Rating: Good
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SkyeAyatari wrote:
Quote:
As to your comment about the 15 hours, you wish! At 100% you get about 50-100 class experience per kill solo, Party experience was even worse but they promised to fix it.


what do you mean about the 15 hours? you get 8 hours of 100% xp and 7 hours of gradual degraded xp, per class and always on physical level. what does "At 100% you get about 50-100 class experience per kill solo, Party experience was even worse but they promised to fix it." have to do with the 15 hour thing?



If your read the whole post you would realize that i was saying that even 10% penalty after 8h is extremely rough considering the exp gain is sh*t to start with.

I edited the post with a screenshot to illustrate my point.

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 3:20am by KindjalFerrer
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#270 Aug 25 2010 at 7:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
If your read the whole post you would realize that i was saying that even 10% penalty after 8h is extremely hars considering the exp gain is sh*t to start with.

I edited the post with a screenshot to illustrate my point.


I am sorry, I am not trying to be rude, I just don't understand your argument. You made a point to call out the 15 hour thing but you are debating the crappy xp. I never said xp was good lol. I was just explaining that you have 15 hours per class to xp and 15 hours total to xp per week on physical level.

Yes, I see that any degradation of xp or skill is crappy, but that's irrelevant to my post.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 9:22pm by SkyeAyatari
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#271 Aug 25 2010 at 7:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Lot of theories going about which just add to the confusion. Doesn't SE have a NA branch with english speaking employees that can articulate this information crystal clear? You can't blame everyone for being ***** and reacting the way they are when 2 interviews given by the same man are translated and send out conflicting information.
I'm guessing the simple "fatigue/surplus" used in these communications are just words/concepts that can easily get mistranslated, SE just needs to be more elaborate and specific on what they mean.

However, I think durations such as 8hrs followed by 7hrs are pretty hard to mistranslate, but DO need to still be clarified. Are we talking about 8hrs of actual play time? Think of all the travelling time, afks, time spent shopping, etc...

Are we talking 8hrs of actual leveling time (which to me would imply combat active time, from the first blow that engages the mob to the last blow that kills it)? If that's the case, it's a whole other measure of time right there.

SE needs some qualified PR people/community managers to better transmit, and on a regular basis, the kind of information that directly impacts how the game is and will be played.
#272 Aug 25 2010 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
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SkyeAyatari wrote:
Quote:
If your read the whole post you would realize that i was saying that even 10% penalty after 8h is extremely hars considering the exp gain is sh*t to start with.

I edited the post with a screenshot to illustrate my point.


I am sorry, I am not trying to be rude, I just don't understand your argument. You made a point to call out the 15 hour thing but you are debating the crappy xp. I never said xp was good lol. I was just explaining that you have 15 hours per class to xp and 15 hours total to xp per week on physical level.

Yes, I see that any degradation of xp or skill is crappy, but that's irrelevant to my post.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 9:22pm by SkyeAyatari



You have 15h, then you hit the brick wall, most people would jump out of the car before it actually hits that brick wall, if you get my drift.

I would dare you to level 15h until you hit 0exp. Come one, be realistic, no one will do that, 9 hours ok, maybe 10hours, thats it. Most will stop at that point because it's simply a waste of time.

Let's just hope they adjust this system in open beta.

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#273 Aug 25 2010 at 7:50 PM Rating: Good
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If I exp Gladiator for 10 hours a week, level Maurader (to use its class abilities for my Gladiator) for 10 hours a week, play a Miner to mine for copper/iron/zinc ores for 10 hours a week, and play Blacksmith as my craft of choice, that's close to 40 hours. I think I'm good, even if they keep the current system in place where you reach 0 xp in 15 hrs.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 9:56pm by Oenos
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#274 Aug 25 2010 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Here's how I'd imagine a good "surplus XP" system would work: Rather than just destroy your exp gain, you would gradually start earning ADDITIONAL surplus exp that wouldn't be immediately gained by the class you're on. You'd just get an extra line with something along the lines of "You gain x points of Surplus XP." It gets stored up until you change classes, then gets added to kills in increments as a 'surplus' to the class exp you normally gain, as in "You gain y points of <class> experience and z surplus <class> points." It's not really designed to discourage playing (though really I don't understand why you'd want to do that), but instead rewards people that grind a lot on one class to switch to something else.



Edited, Aug 25th 2010 9:28pm by bsphil
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#275 Aug 25 2010 at 8:45 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Here's how I'd imagine a good "surplus XP" system would work: Rather than just destroy your exp gain, you would gradually start earning ADDITIONAL surplus exp that wouldn't be immediately gained by the class you're on. You'd just get an extra line with something along the lines of "You gain x points of Surplus XP." It gets stored up until you change classes, then gets added to kills in increments as a 'surplus' to the class exp you normally gain, as in "You gain y points of <class> experience and z surplus <class> points." It's not really designed to discourage playing (though really I don't understand why you'd want to do that), but instead rewards people that grind a lot on one class to switch to something else.


I was thinking this exact thing. Though they'd end up skimming points off. If it were a 1:1 conversion than you could just use a prefered job almost exclusively to accrue surplus XP for whatever other jobs you need leveled that you don't want to play as much.

Actually, when I think about it, that actually seems like a great idea. In FFXI I'd have loved to be able to just EXP on my main to help fill up my subs! If they did this I'd guess that [like the bands] you'd get something like a 50% bonus, with max bonus being however many surplus points you've accumulated.

Bottom line is it still sucks for people who don't want to level other things at the time.
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#276 Aug 25 2010 at 8:56 PM Rating: Excellent
I agree, it is a great idea. Even if it was a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio it would be ok, at least it would be an incentive instead of a detriment.
#277 Aug 25 2010 at 9:02 PM Rating: Good
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Hmmmm. does this mean the people who use the Garland Goggles are gonna have even less time till they reach Surplus EXP?
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#278 Aug 25 2010 at 9:04 PM Rating: Good
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marsupialboy wrote:
Hmmmm. does this mean the people who use the Garland Goggles are gonna have even less time till they reach Surplus EXP?


That's a VERY good point. SE's magical average player won't have the garland goggles and will gain exp at a slower rate because of it.

Obviously nobody can say for certain whether or not the goggles will lead to quicker encounters with the surplus fairy (well nobody but SE) but it seems like a strong possibility
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#279 Aug 25 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Good
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Kinda glad I'm getting the Onion Helm now. those Goggles might not seem as good as people were making them out to be after all.
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#280 Aug 25 2010 at 9:20 PM Rating: Good
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marsupialboy wrote:
Kinda glad I'm getting the Onion Helm now. those Goggles might not seem as good as people were making them out to be after all.


You're right... you shouldn't be but you are...

Literally the only way for Improved Death to be better than Get More XP is if getting more xp is bad Smiley: oyvey
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