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What's so fascinating about level cap anyway?Follow

#1 Aug 25 2010 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
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As many may be aware with the official news on surplus it begs the question. Why do we seek to hit max level as soon as possible. Why do we want to find that single mob to exp on and grind and grind til we hit our cap. Why don't we enjoy the journey to the top.

What I find hilarious is while this surplus system may make getting to the top a longer process it'll either have absolutely no effect on us when we hit 40 or when we hit 40 that class will gain nothing but surplus which seems to currently be used for nothing but it's not like we're losing it. Granted we have no idea what's it's being used for but keep in mind, WHILE you're surplus may be stored for your class and doing nothing atm you aren't losing any skill gains, you just aren't transferring those skill points towards your level cap.

Why is it that when people normally hit a level cap in a cap they have no problem gaining xp there, it's not like they are gaining anything out of killing multiple mobs however SE has actually seemed to created a system to preemptive those that hit the level cap. While slowing them down to the top they also have a surplus which will most likely be used later on. In every game and XI to an extent if you've capped your merits you are killing mobs and gaining no exp from them.

So I dunno but I think we all need a little more faith that as XIV evolves the surplus will be used to gain more class specific abilities which will allow us to specialize in our class of choice more and it does spread the love of evenly reaching to the top. For those who want to grind for more then 15hrs a week take a break and to those that have a single character played by multiple too bad.

I'd like to get the facts straight so let's do a little number crunching to end this topic.
-18 classes times 8= 144hrs or 100% skill gains if you leveled all classes
-Additional 7hrs of decay= 126 hrs
-hours in a week= 168hrs
-hours to gain absolutely no skill= 270hrs
-War= 40hrs/35hrs= 75hrs of game time
-Magic= 16hrs/14hrs= 30hrs of game time
-Land= 24hrs/21hrs= 45hrs of game time
-Hand= 64hrs/56hrs= 120hrs of game time
-per class in total= 15hrs

So unless I've missed the news that time has been extended a week and that XIV has been released for the last 6 months I don't know why everyone seems to be blowing this our of proportion. Soloist with a lot of time on their hands while sure they can level solo with this time based system people will be more enticed to work together rather then grind by themselves.

We've only been given a few classes to play with, with more to revealed later on and when that happens they'll be more classes to level up we'll be wondering where the surplus is because we'll be to busy playing with other game mechanics or multi-tasking with multiple class skills that we won't even be aware that we actually have a surplus system in our hands.

Sometimes it just feels like people might flip flop on what they say, isn't it the experience to the top that makes the game fun? Don't people always have more fun when they go out meet other people from the world and work together to become stronger and gain skills. **** I've heard that a group of people that worked to fight a mega crab back in the last phase while oh my god they gained absolutely crap for skill had fun and excitement from taking down a difficult foe.

I'd just like to let everyone keep in mind it's not the top of the peak that makes the journey worthwhile but the time and patience as we aim for the top. Let's enjoy all the content the game has to offer when it's released and things may still change but why not look at this surplus system with a more positive outlook at just keep in mind.
-Shows a possible advantage for party play compared to soloing
-Doesn't allow people to control the same character aka RMT mainly and grind their character to the top in order to hold a strangle on the market
-We lose NOTHING when we gain surplus it just doesn't do anything atm but it is stored up and ready to be used once implemented

It's difficult to create a game where both casual and hardcore can live in a successful harmony without the casual feeling left out because they don't have the time hardcore have. While the hardcore do have the chance to gain skills in multiple classes to have more diversity casuals will most likely be the focus on one class to maximize it's potential. Again, let's all just give SE some faith and wait til OB to really show any negative feedback and helpful feedback rather then just insulting the system as a whole. Now that we understand what it truly does and why it was implemented we can begin to look at the rest of the world and enjoy it for what it is. It's not all about making it to the top.
#2 Aug 25 2010 at 2:04 PM Rating: Good
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Airget wrote:
Why do we seek to hit max level as soon as possible. Why do we want to find that single mob to exp on and grind and grind til we hit our cap. Why don't we enjoy the journey to the top.


'Cause I wanna be FURST!!!!
Honestly, there are multiple types of people who play MMO's. Some wanna just play and have fun. Some, just want to Win the game, and sit on top of the hill with their bragging rights. I personally fall in the middle, I plan to enjoy my gametime, and not lose sleep over falling behind others. But I will be the guy a year or two from now, saying "Back in MY day, we...."
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#3 Aug 25 2010 at 2:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's not that the level cap is so fascinating, but if I'm having fun and enjoying myself, why should they get to tell me I've had enough fun now and I have to stop having fun and do something else. I'm not sure why you'd tolerate someone doing that to you when YOU are paying THEM for the service.

There's no reason in the world why I should have to stop doing something I enjoy (when I can manage my own time responsibly thank you very much) whether I have 8 hours to do it or 80.
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#4 Aug 25 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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LordDVS wrote:
Some wanna just play and have fun. Some, just want to Win the game


Pitifully, I fall under the latter category more than the prior. :(

Hey, at least I have the guts to admit it.


Archmage Callinon wrote:
It's not that the level cap is so fascinating, but if I'm having fun and enjoying myself, why should they get to tell me I've had enough fun now and I have to stop having fun and do something else. I'm not sure why you'd tolerate someone doing that to you when YOU are paying THEM for the service.


And this is the correct answer.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 3:11pm by Threx
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#5 Aug 25 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have a lot of fun playing gladiator and when the time comes the game says "Ok thats enough gladiator for you, go play something else" ... Yea I will be very annoyed, why should I stop? Also if a casual is "hurt" because someone with more time on their hands hit the lv cap first they should probably stop playing multiplayer games.

Casuals gain NOTHING from this system, it does not further them in any way, nor does it reward them for being casual. All it does is step on the toes of the less casual players.

repeat:

It's not a bout the level cap, it's about the game forcing you stop playing the way you enjoy it
We are paying for this service, we should be able to play the game as we see fit (within the rules of course)

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 4:12pm by Silverwyrm
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#6 Aug 25 2010 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
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In no way do I look forward to get to level cal but I also don't like getting a bonus from what I'm doing. If you do something in a game you should get some kind of reward. Personally I expect to play a couple, maybe 3 hours on week days and over 5 on weekend days.

I don't consider that Hard core neither do I think of it as mearly casual but I'm still gonna feel penalised if by anychance halfway through a party I start getting reduced EXP and Skill Points. This may also cause people to start leaving parties when their surplus comes into effect and that will cause a whole new revolution ingame and in forums like ours.

What I really would like to know is if indeed like what I read on the interview this happens after you play for 8 hours, spend 8 hours fighting or get so much EXP/SP.

The first option (and the one I think SE put foward) in my opinion is completly ununderstandable (sp) and I would only agree 100% with the third if indeed this system gets implemented.

To me personally as I intend to mainly look into DoH and DoL this just doesn't seem very balanced.
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#7 Aug 25 2010 at 2:24 PM Rating: Decent
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People aren't raging because they want to reach level cap. Every time you kill a 1,000 exp monster and because of surplus, well **** that. I'm calling it fatigue. Square Enix can't dress it up any other way. When you get 100 experience over 1,000 experience. Congratulations. Time management fail.
#8 Aug 25 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Default
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Personally I don't see the big issue with it.
You can still enjoy playing the game on the class, it's just that you aren't 'rewarded' as much as you were at first, it doesn't break the game though and it certainly doesn't slap a big X in the middle of the screen, log you off and prevent you from playing.

Indeed it does seem to stop people playing the way that they had intended, but it's the way they had designed the game. Can it be considered to be broken?

In any case if you have issues, maybe you should ask yourself why you play the game and what you seek to get out of it. For myself it's to hang out with friends, explore a wonderful world and experience adventures. I'm sure there is more than enough for me to get on with that won't make it feel like I'm being hindered by lack of levelling.

Once you finish the race to the end (level cap) then what do you have to look forward to? I know for some that they get to the end and then say to themselves, "Now what to do?". Well in this case it'll make the game last longer.

Your game shouldn't be measured by your exp level, but by the personal experiences you've taken away with you when you turn that screen off. (IMHO)
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#9 Aug 25 2010 at 2:57 PM Rating: Decent
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If the level cap was rank 20, nobody would care.

But that isn't the truth with this game, and people do not care to have limits in place due to other issues, perhaps even the lack of end game content available.
#10 Aug 25 2010 at 3:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kreisash wrote:
Personally I don't see the big issue with it.
You can still enjoy playing the game on the class, it's just that you aren't 'rewarded' as much as you were at first, it doesn't break the game though and it certainly doesn't slap a big X in the middle of the screen, log you off and prevent you from playing.

Indeed it does seem to stop people playing the way that they had intended, but it's the way they had designed the game. Can it be considered to be broken?

In any case if you have issues, maybe you should ask yourself why you play the game and what you seek to get out of it. For myself it's to hang out with friends, explore a wonderful world and experience adventures. I'm sure there is more than enough for me to get on with that won't make it feel like I'm being hindered by lack of levelling.

Once you finish the race to the end (level cap) then what do you have to look forward to? I know for some that they get to the end and then say to themselves, "Now what to do?". Well in this case it'll make the game last longer.

Your game shouldn't be measured by your exp level, but by the personal experiences you've taken away with you when you turn that screen off. (IMHO)


And if what I enjoy doing is leveling? Who are you, or they, to say that I'm having fun the wrong way?

I appreciate what you're trying to say here but the fact of the matter is, this system is designed for one purpose, and one purpose only: to make progression take longer. There's absolutely no reason for it, there's no sane reason to tell me that I have to stop having fun because I've reached my "fun limit" for the week. I understand there are other things to do, and that's great, I'll do them... But if what I enjoy doing is killing monsters and leveling up, that's equally valid and I should be allowed to do so for as long as I want.
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#11 Aug 25 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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OP must have missed the memo that this game is all about the leveling experience.

They don't even know what they'll do for endgame ffs
#12 Aug 25 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

And if what I enjoy doing is leveling? Who are you, or they, to say that I'm having fun the wrong way?


EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#13 Aug 25 2010 at 3:12 PM Rating: Good
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I blame WoW for ruining a once wonderful genre of gaming. If I only want to play a game a few hours a week, quite honestly it's not worth my time to even buy it. I play this type of game to make it my main hobby. I don't want to be restricted to 8 hours a week. Everyone I played FFXI with would normally put that much time in daily. Is SE seriously telling me I can only play the class I want 1 day per week when I'm paying a subscription fee, SIMPLY so some noob that can only play a few hours a week can be on par with what I'm doing? Seriously, F*CK the casuals. They have 'no' business being on par with hardcore players in this genre of gaming.
#14 Aug 25 2010 at 3:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I blame WoW for ruining a once wonderful genre of gaming. If I only want to play a game a few hours a week, quite honestly it's not worth my time to even buy it. I play this type of game to make it my main hobby. I don't want to be restricted to 8 hours a week. Everyone I played FFXI with would normally put that much time in daily. Is SE seriously telling me I can only play the class I want 1 day per week when I'm paying a subscription fee, SIMPLY so some noob that can only play a few hours a week can be on par with what I'm doing? Seriously, F*CK the casuals. They have 'no' business being on par with hardcore players in this genre of gaming.


No offense, but this kind of post is what makes me hate people. I grow more cynical each day.

I'm not a fan of WoW. In fact, I really dislike the WoW community for the most part. But, to blame WoW for this is asinine. To say ********** the casuals" is not only making you look terrible but it's basically spitting in the developers' faces as well. Especially considering casual gamers dominate the economic market.

I consider myself a hardcore gamer. I'm not blaming casual gamers for this.

This is like..... worse than politics. It's like racism, except... nerdism.
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#15 Aug 25 2010 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
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Personally OP I've never understood why people wanted to get to the cap or highest level so quickly. In this beta test everyone seemed to be looking for endgame, when there was barely such a thing as beginning content.

With regards to people just getting to the highest level of any game. I don't mind people blitzing, but when it comes down to it, your rank denotes how skilled you are at the game. So I would make sense that a level 75 person would know more about the workings of the game and the content of the game than a level 30. However, that's not the case a lot of times. Most people just level for leveling sake and don't do anything other than just leveling. They talk, they level, ...and that's it. To me that's weird, but hey they're entitled to their enjoyment.

Honestly I could care less about the surplus, to me if I need a type of fish or type of crystal I'm still going to go out and get it regardless of exp or not. I need that to make whatever it is I'm making so I'm still going to be doing activities. I'll still be punching things and killing things if I need ingredients for stuff.

But to each their own.
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#16 Aug 25 2010 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
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LordDVS wrote:
Airget wrote:
Why do we seek to hit max level as soon as possible. Why do we want to find that single mob to exp on and grind and grind til we hit our cap. Why don't we enjoy the journey to the top.


'Cause I wanna be FURST!!!! Some, just want to Win the game, and sit on top of the hill with their bragging rights.


When it comes to MMO's "to win the game" generally means to lose the life.




Edited, Aug 25th 2010 5:25pm by Sasorex
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#17 Aug 25 2010 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Rjain wrote:
No offense, but this kind of post is what makes me hate people. I grow more cynical each day.

I'm not a fan of WoW. In fact, I really dislike the WoW community for the most part. But, to blame WoW for this is asinine. To say "@#%^ the casuals" is not only making you look terrible but it's basically spitting in the developers' faces as well. Especially considering casual gamers dominate the economic market.

I consider myself a hardcore gamer. I'm not blaming casual gamers for this.

This is like..... worse than politics. It's like racism, except... nerdism.


It's 'nerdism' to enjoy playing a game?
So if I'm willing to play the game for 40 hours a week, someone who only plays for 5 hours should be equal to me?
Let's put this in terms of real life.
Should someone who works in an office for 40 hours a week get paid the same as the part-time employee in the office only putting in a few hours? Would the person working 40 hours not have a right to be upset?

Should someone who works out 40 hours a week in the gym have the same build as someone working out for 1 hour per week?
Like get serious!
I'm well aware that casual gamers dominate the market, good for them, seriously. But if I'm willing to put more time into the game, I should not be PUNISHED!
I'm old enough to manage my own life, I don't need a video game telling me how to do it.
#18 Aug 25 2010 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Well the first 10% of the game is leveling to cap, the other 90% is what you can do once you have. Some of us prefer the other 90%, some of us use 100% of our playing time to level.
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#19 Aug 25 2010 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
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While it won't really bother me personally as I am the type of player that enjoys playing different jobs anyway.

(In FFXI it took me a year and a half to reach my first 75 job and I also had one or two other jobs sitting around the lvl 50 mark at the same time. So this "leveling style" SE have in mind is exactly how I expected to play).

I do agree, however, it is not satisfactory for other players who do enjoy levelling all out to reach the cap.

As it has been said, one view is that if we are paying to play the game, we should not be told how and when to play in a MMO. But on the other hand, it is SE's game and they have the right to choose their own design.

But they are treading on shaky ground if they end up alienating a large percentage of their player base. Because let's face it, they want the FFXI players to switch to FFXIV and FFXI was considered quite a hardcore MMO and most hardcore FFXI players will be wanting to play FFXIV, but this could turn them away.


#20 Aug 25 2010 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Sasorex wrote:
LordDVS wrote:
Airget wrote:
Why do we seek to hit max level as soon as possible. Why do we want to find that single mob to exp on and grind and grind til we hit our cap. Why don't we enjoy the journey to the top.


'Cause I wanna be FURST!!!! Some, just want to Win the game, and sit on top of the hill with their bragging rights.


When it comes to MMO's "to win the game" generally means to lose the life.


Again, who are you or anyone to determine how anyone wants to spend their free time?
You're saying people who enjoy video games have no life? Yet here you are posting on a video game fansite.
#21 Aug 25 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
It's 'nerdism' to enjoy playing a game?


What I meant by that was you are condemning other players and other games for something, when they have minimal effect over it to begin with.

Just to throw something into perspective, slightly off topic, if it wasn't for these "casual players" you hate so much, these games, nor their companies, would EXIST.

The vast majority of the gaming market is dominated by casual gamers. It is very immature to be condemning other players for something just because it isn't what you expect you are entitled to.
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#22 Aug 25 2010 at 3:40 PM Rating: Default
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
Sasorex wrote:
LordDVS wrote:
Airget wrote:
Why do we seek to hit max level as soon as possible. Why do we want to find that single mob to exp on and grind and grind til we hit our cap. Why don't we enjoy the journey to the top.


'Cause I wanna be FURST!!!! Some, just want to Win the game, and sit on top of the hill with their bragging rights.


When it comes to MMO's "to win the game" generally means to lose the life.


Again, who are you or anyone to determine how anyone wants to spend their free time?
You're saying people who enjoy video games have no life? Yet here you are posting on a video game fansite.


Good job reading into something that's not there. I said to "lose the life" not to "have no life". If you're spending mass amounts of time playing a video game, MMO or not, you're obviously not doing other things because you're playing a video game. I didn't say anything about "people who enjoy video games have no life" now did I?

Free time is free time. Do what you will with your own. I for one am someone who dumped INSANE amounts of hours into FFXI. To the point where I would admit to having NO LIFE because my life centered around FFXI. Difference between myself and many other "elite" FFXI players was I didn't think I was cool because I had more stuff than other people. I got what I got because of mass amounts of play time not because I was better per se than other people.









Edited, Aug 25th 2010 5:42pm by Sasorex
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#23 Aug 25 2010 at 3:43 PM Rating: Default
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Rjain wrote:
Quote:
It's 'nerdism' to enjoy playing a game?


What I meant by that was you are condemning other players and other games for something, when they have minimal effect over it to begin with.

Just to throw something into perspective, slightly off topic, if it wasn't for these "casual players" you hate so much, these games, nor their companies, would EXIST.

The vast majority of the gaming market is dominated by casual gamers. It is very immature to be condemning other players for something just because it isn't what you expect you are entitled to.


Yes, I am condemning an entire game (WoW) for destroying what was once an enjoyable genre of gaming, because now companies feel they have to cater to these casual players to make a profit, and ruining the experience of the hardcore gamers. Yes I consider myself hardcore and yes I enjoy Final Fantasy games. So is it unrealistic for me not to want a carebear game when I refer to FFXIV? Certainly. I spent a lot of money upgrading my computer, as did many other 'hardcore' gamers to be able to enjoy this experience for a LOT of hours every week. I don't want to be limited to 1 day of playtime a week.
There are other ways to appeal to casual gamers then to absolutely DESTROY the enjoyment of the hardcore gamers.
#24 Aug 25 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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Indeed, despite how player A or player B likes to play, they tell you how to play the game because it's THEIR game.

THis is how it works in life, people offer a service, or goods for you to buy. People who enjoy or like it continue to utilise the company. Those who do not like the way it is currently can make comments or suggestions, but it is up to the company to actually decide whether to make the change or not and this may well affect their success.

However if the service is not to your liking then you don't have to use it.

I can understand why people are upset, but at the same time I think you need to let it ride for a while before you get medievil on SE's ***.
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#25 Aug 25 2010 at 3:46 PM Rating: Default
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Sorry, it would be a pretty bad decision on any developer's part to cater to only hardcore players. There's a reason Wii is the most financially successful system out there in comparison to PS3 and Xbox.

I agree there could be more to support hardcore FF players for XIV, but I have no doubts that that will come in the future. To say XIV basically ****** on hardcore gamers is ****.
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#26 Aug 25 2010 at 3:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Rjain wrote:
Sorry, it would be a pretty bad decision on any developer's part to cater to only hardcore players. There's a reason Wii is the most financially successful system out there in comparison to PS3 and Xbox.

I agree there could be more to support hardcore FF players for XIV, but I have no doubts that that will come in the future. To say XIV basically ****** on hardcore gamers is sh*t.


Nobody's asking them to cater strictly to hardcore players, and you're right, it'd be a bad decision to do so.

We're asking them not to PUNISH players who happen to have more than a few hours per week to play the game, because that's what's happening
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#27 Aug 25 2010 at 3:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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The vast majority of the gaming market is dominated by casual gamers
While I don't necessarily agree with Rjain's opinions regarding fatigue, he's absolutely right about this, and the trend is GROWING. There are already predictions that we've reached the end of the "high budget" PC gaming days, as the cheap/free micro transaction model gains traction in places like smart phones and on facebook.

Quote:
Is SE seriously telling me I can only play the class I want 1 day per week when I'm paying a subscription fee, SIMPLY so some noob that can only play a few hours a week can be on par with what I'm doing


Probably the worst worded sentence ever. If I were to try to rephrase this into something constructive, it might go like this:

Is SE seriously telling me that, for my $15/month, I am being limited in my playtime despite my time and abilities because they don't want me to quickly outpace any new casual gamers that might happen to join the FFXIV community at any given time? What happens 6 months from launch when new, casual gamers join? Are they going to clamp down and further restrict us with fatigue so that THOSE players can catch up? What about a year from now? At what point do we agree that there are going to eventually be people at max level while there are new players just starting, and there's nothing we can do about it? Are max leveled people then going to be told they must "help" new players by donating the levels they've worked so hard for? Where's the line here?

I think you might have gotten some more positive feedback this way :)

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#28 Aug 25 2010 at 3:49 PM Rating: Good
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Yup... people sometimes forget that games companies are a business and money rules.
More people = more money. If every 'hardcore' player was willing to pay 3 times the cost of a subscription for a purely 'hardcore' game then it might be feasible.

However it's not going to happen.
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#29 Aug 25 2010 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Sasorex wrote:


Good job reading into something that's not there. I said to "lose the life" not to "have no life". If you're spending mass amounts of time playing a video game, MMO or not, you're obviously not doing other things because you're playing a video game. I didn't say anything about "people who enjoy video games have no life" now did I?

Free time is free time. Do what you will with your own. I for one am someone who dumped INSANE amounts of hours into FFXI. To the point where I would admit to having NO LIFE because my life centered around FFXI. Difference between myself and many other "elite" FFXI players was I didn't think I was cool because I had more stuff than other people. I got what I got because of mass amounts of play time not because I was better per se than other people.


"If you're spending mass amounts of time playing a video game, MMO or not, you're obviously not doing other things because you're playing a video game."

I KNOW HOW TO MANAGE MY OWN F*CKING TIME!

"Difference between myself and many other "elite" FFXI players was I didn't think I was cool because I had more stuff than other people."

This is so freakin' irrelevant I can't even believe you posted it...

If I choose to have "no life" as you put it, simply because i want to play a video game I enjoy, A LOT... then I should be free to do so. If i choose not to go to work, or not to feed my kids, or kill hobos on a sidewalk with a lead pipe... I should be free to do so... it's my life and I'll spend time doing the things I enjoy.
#30 Aug 25 2010 at 3:54 PM Rating: Default
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It's not that the level cap is so fascinating, but if I'm having fun and enjoying myself, why should they get to tell me I've had enough fun now and I have to stop having fun and do something else. I'm not sure why you'd tolerate someone doing that to you when YOU are paying THEM for the service.

There's no reason in the world why I should have to stop doing something I enjoy (when I can manage my own time responsibly thank you very much) whether I have 8 hours to do it or 80.


Who said you have to stop having fun. You can keep having fun and killing monsters and playing, you just don't get as much EXP.

For anyone who really cares about playing a GAME and having FUN, this is not really an issue.

Personal I'm not a hardcore gaming. I won't really run into this problem. But even if I did, I wouldn't complain. No one is telling me how to play. They are just rules set in a game for how EXP is awarded. I'm not playing this game to work, and earn. I'm playing to enjoy the story, my friends, and the pleasure of the game. I'm not really worried about how quickly I finish the race.
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#31 Aug 25 2010 at 3:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Another thing to remember, is the way FFXIV is set out, creating the most "elite" or efficient players will involve levelling different classes anyway. As we can mix'n'match abilities from one job to another.

So to create the best DD, a Marauder for example, a hardcore player would need to level other jobs like Lancer and Pugilist, to gain the abilities that will enhance their main class.

The focus on FFXIV seems to be all about changing classes and mixing different classes abilities, so the "surplus xp" just promotes this.

So there will still be a divide between casual and hardcore players as a casual players will not have access to these other abilities.

In fact, it's no different from FFXI in which players were expected to level their sub jobs to a certain level before they could continue with their main.

Instead rather than the players expecting/insisting your sub job is leveled, SE is kinda making us do it anyway.
#32 Aug 25 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Decent
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
Sasorex wrote:


Good job reading into something that's not there. I said to "lose the life" not to "have no life". If you're spending mass amounts of time playing a video game, MMO or not, you're obviously not doing other things because you're playing a video game. I didn't say anything about "people who enjoy video games have no life" now did I?

Free time is free time. Do what you will with your own. I for one am someone who dumped INSANE amounts of hours into FFXI. To the point where I would admit to having NO LIFE because my life centered around FFXI. Difference between myself and many other "elite" FFXI players was I didn't think I was cool because I had more stuff than other people. I got what I got because of mass amounts of play time not because I was better per se than other people.


"If you're spending mass amounts of time playing a video game, MMO or not, you're obviously not doing other things because you're playing a video game."

I KNOW HOW TO MANAGE MY OWN F*CKING TIME!

"Difference between myself and many other "elite" FFXI players was I didn't think I was cool because I had more stuff than other people."

This is so freakin' irrelevant I can't even believe you posted it...

If I choose to have "no life" as you put it, simply because i want to play a video game I enjoy, A LOT... then I should be free to do so. If i choose not to go to work, or not to feed my kids, or kill hobos on a sidewalk with a lead pipe... I should be free to do so... it's my life and I'll spend time doing the things I enjoy.


Dude, how old are you? Your reading comprehension skills are atrocious.

For some reason you seem to think I'm talking about you or that I'm saying people who play video games a lot have no life. I'm not even going to bother trying to explain myself at this point.


Edited, Aug 25th 2010 5:57pm by Sasorex
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#33 Aug 25 2010 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent
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scotchio wrote:
Another thing to remember, is the way FFXIV is set out, creating the most "elite" or efficient players will involve levelling different classes anyway. As we can mix'n'match abilities from one job to another.

So to create the best DD, a Marauder for example, a hardcore player would need to level other jobs like Lancer and Pugilist, to gain the abilities that will enhance their main class.

The focus on FFXIV seems to be all about changing classes and mixing different classes abilities, so the "surplus xp" just promotes this.

So there will still be a divide between casual and hardcore players as a casual players will not have access to these other abilities.

In fact, it's no different from FFXI in which players were expected to level their sub jobs to a certain level before they could continue with their main.

Instead rather than the players expecting/insisting your sub job is leveled, SE is kinda making us do it anyway.


Actually, it's kinda like SE telling you to level your subjob that you don't enjoy to level 37... and only allowing you to gain 1 level per day, so they make it painful for you for 37 days. It's kinda more like that.
#34 Aug 25 2010 at 3:59 PM Rating: Decent
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What I enjoyed the most about FFXI was leveling and meriting, especially when you really know what you're doing and can crank your performance up to incredible levels. I don't see my opinion towards FFXIV being too much different, though it remains to be seen how exactly it'll pan out in the game.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 5:00pm by bsphil
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#35 Aug 25 2010 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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Yup... people sometimes forget that games companies are a business and money rules.


That's right. And the first rule of business is that you don't alienate the customers you built that business on.

Actually, the first rule of business is don't P*ss off the stock holders, but I digress.

Or how about "Look after the customer and the business will take care of itself".

I suspect, however, that this game is not going to have much of an appeal to new, casual gamers.

1) you have to purchase it and install it. You can't just click on a facebook link and play it.
2) it requires a computer NOT purchased @ Wal Mart [or, in lieu of, a P[o]S3]
3) You can't purchase levels or skills with real money via micro transactions.
4) you can't earn those skills by filling out surveys about your whole family history to be sold later to every corporation in existence.
5) You can't hire someone to come over to your kingdom and help you farm your herbalist/gathering skills.

I could go ON and on and on ;)
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#36 Aug 25 2010 at 4:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Who said you have to stop having fun. You can keep having fun and killing monsters and playing, you just don't get as much EXP.

For anyone who really cares about playing a GAME and having FUN, this is not really an issue.


Killing monsters and leveling up can be fun, killing monsters and getting 0exp before the level cap...is not fun. With no progression it changes to feel meaningless (and it mostly is)

Yes it is an issue, because it can greatly hinder their fun, when they are forced to stop progressing their character in the way they want to.

Also, in the current phase of beta, you first hit surplus at rank 14 (assuming you didn't hit a reset) Now my question is..given the leveling curve and depending on the cap ( I don't know what the cap will be) this can become a real issue if in later levels you hit woefully low exp on surplus before you've even level'd up, or after once. Given how quickly we can hit it (rank 14 is easy) as the curve goes up its possible we could gain a level and a half in a week, then be locked out.
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#37 Aug 25 2010 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Sasorex wrote:

Dude, how old are you? Your reading comprehension skills are atrocious.

For some reason you seem to think I'm talking about you or that I'm saying people who play video games a lot have no life. I'm not even going to bother trying to explain myself at this point.


"If you're spending mass amounts of time playing a video game, MMO or not, you're obviously not doing other things because you're playing a video game"

It's pretty hard to not be able to understand that.
You're saying I'm not doing other stuff because i'm playing a video game... really? REALLY?

What other stuff am I not doing? Am I forgetting to eat? Am I forgetting to go to work? Am i forgetting to bathe myself?
What is it exactly that I'm missing out on?
Is playing a video game for 40 hours a week somehow ruining my life? Do I really need someone telling me how to run my life? Not the last time I checked because I'm an adult.

Should i be paying a subscription to pay for a game I can only enjoy 1 day a week? I don't think so. Why place that restriction on someone? This is BY FAR the worst idea a video gaming company has ever come out with. This is so beyond rediculous, i'm almost not even able to put it into words.
#38 Aug 25 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
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Although I disagree with the reason behind creating the surplus EXP system and don't believe that SE should attempt to persuade or dictate how people play the game; in reality I don't know if it will effect people as much as some players think it will.

Say somebody is leveling their favorite class and having a grand ol' time time at it. They see another player of another class using an ability and they think, 'wow that would go really great with my whatever...' So what do they do, they go out and play the other class to strengthen their current one. Maybe not everybody will, but I suspect most will want to play around with the different combinations and possibilties more than not, and probably sooner rather than later. Especially hard core players that can't fathom the idea of being gimped.

So yeah, I think this is a poor idea in principle but will probably be less so in practice.
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#39 Aug 25 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Rjain wrote:
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It's 'nerdism' to enjoy playing a game?


What I meant by that was you are condemning other players and other games for something, when they have minimal effect over it to begin with.

Just to throw something into perspective, slightly off topic, if it wasn't for these "casual players" you hate so much, these games, nor their companies, would EXIST.

The vast majority of the gaming market is dominated by casual gamers. It is very immature to be condemning other players for something just because it isn't what you expect you are entitled to.


I find myself disagreeing with you on this topic often.

Here I go again:

- Casual players dominate the Wii
- Casual players dominate cell phone games
- Casual players dominate online web games, social gaming, i.e. Mafia Wars
- Casual players do NOT dominate console games
- Casual gamers CERTAINLY do not dominate PC gaming, one in which essentially requires A NEW CPU/MOBO/GPU to play the game.

/end nerd rage....again! :p
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#40 Aug 25 2010 at 4:12 PM Rating: Decent
Why is fighting a monster for 100 exp more fun then fighting one for 10 exp? I don't really understand. Ya you progress slower, but that's your choice to be a hardcore gamer. You need to work harder and longer to progress. If you want to keep fighting that monster for 10 exp, no one is going to stop you.
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#41 Aug 25 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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SkepticalChymist wrote:
Why is fighting a monster for 100 exp more fun then fighting one for 10 exp? I don't really understand. Ya you progress slower, but that's your choice to be a hardcore gamer. You need to work harder and longer to progress. If you want to keep fighting that monster for 10 exp, no one is going to stop you.


And when that monster is worth 0 exp?
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#42 Aug 25 2010 at 4:15 PM Rating: Decent
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SkepticalChymist wrote:
Why is fighting a monster for 100 exp more fun then fighting one for 10 exp? I don't really understand. Ya you progress slower, but that's your choice to be a hardcore gamer. You need to work harder and longer to progress. If you want to keep fighting that monster for 10 exp, no one is going to stop you.


"you will get 100% of exp . skill points within 8 hours. Then the next 7 hours, they will be decreasing slowly till 0%"


This
#43 Aug 25 2010 at 4:16 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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seneleron wrote:
And the first rule of business is that you don't alienate the customers you built that business on.
Nintendo ****** all over the faces of their original fanbase with the Wii, and are making massive profits because of it.
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#44SkepticalChymist, Posted: Aug 25 2010 at 4:16 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I heard it capped at -90%
#45 Aug 25 2010 at 4:17 PM Rating: Good
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Silverwyrm wrote:


Killing monsters and leveling up can be fun, killing monsters and getting 0exp before the level cap...is not fun. With no progression it changes to feel meaningless (and it mostly is)

Yes it is an issue, because it can greatly hinder their fun, when they are forced to stop progressing their character in the way they want to.

Also, in the current phase of beta, you first hit surplus at rank 14 (assuming you didn't hit a reset) Now my question is..given the leveling curve and depending on the cap ( I don't know what the cap will be) this can become a real issue if in later levels you hit woefully low exp on surplus before you've even level'd up, or after once. Given how quickly we can hit it (rank 14 is easy) as the curve goes up its possible we could gain a level and a half in a week, then be locked out.


You know, I started of in this thread almost defending this "surplus xp" business, but after reading more and also remembering my times in FFXI, some of my most memorable times were playing on a day off and getting an xp party that lasted for about 8 hrs or more ( only happened 2 or 3 times) and how much I actually enjoyed that.

Yeah, this "surplus xp" will kill that experience. I remember gaining 3 or 4 levels in one session, when I was in the 50's, it was a thrill. This will dampen that. I'm turning. ;)
#46 Aug 25 2010 at 4:17 PM Rating: Decent
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"you will get 100% of exp . skill points within 8 hours. Then the next 7 hours, they will be decreasing slowly till 0%"


Where was that posted?
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#47 Aug 25 2010 at 4:21 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I find myself disagreeing with you on this topic often.

Here I go again:

- Casual players dominate the Wii
- Casual players dominate cell phone games
- Casual players dominate online web games, social gaming, i.e. Mafia Wars
- Casual players do NOT dominate console games
- Casual gamers CERTAINLY do not dominate PC gaming, one in which essentially requires A NEW CPU/MOBO/GPU to play the game.

/end nerd rage....again! :p


Is the Wii not a console? Also, Square-Enix has been trying to appeal to casual gamers for pretty much EVERYTHING they do, not just XIV. Look at all their iPhone games, they even said in their reports that their casual games make far more money.

I do agree that XIV is not exactly casual-friendly since you require such a good computer to play it decently; however, that will change in time. If XIV is only hardcore oriented like XI was, it's gonna cause some serious problems (not that I don't like XI, I love XI).
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#48 Aug 25 2010 at 4:21 PM Rating: Good
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SE is really missing the big picture here.

It's less about the individual when talking about level cap, and more about the group. A lot of people want to get leveling over with so that they can go exploring, check out dungeons, and fight epic monsters. You need to be at least within a certain level range of one another for this to be feasible, and so everyone wants to be able to progress to the point where they will be useful.

Putting on limits to this won't look like much in the beginning, but after a year or so in it's really going to hurt those folks newly joining groups because they not only have a lot of catching up to do, but they also have these walls in front of them so it takes longer for them to come to a point where others will accept them into the group.

It's really just a dumb system, any way you look at it. It doesn't block the hard core, and it doesn't reward the casual. All it's going to do, is usher us into a whole new world of elitism.
#49 Aug 25 2010 at 4:25 PM Rating: Good
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Nintendo ****** all over the faces of their original fanbase with the Wii, and are making massive profits because of it.


wait, what? Nintendo made a profit? And WTF is a wii?? Is that like a new version of the SNES?

More serious, do you know how many Wii [is Wii the plural of Wii???] are gathering dust in people's houses because the novelty of such a gimicky system has worn off?

I don't either, I was hoping you did. If it ever comes up in conversation, though, usually the answer is "I have one of those in a box in the basement"
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#50 Aug 25 2010 at 4:27 PM Rating: Default
Wait, isn't this called a "surplus" system. Dose that not mean that when they say 100% they mean a 100% bonus that goes down to 0% bonus after that time period? Is it confirmed that you will actually get 0 EXP for killing something at some point? Or will it be more like it goes from 200 exp to 100 exp over that time.
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#51 Aug 25 2010 at 4:28 PM Rating: Default
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More serious, do you know how many Wii [is Wii the plural of Wii???] are gathering dust in people's houses because the novelty of such a gimicky system has worn off?


Except that Nintendo has and still continues to have double to triple the sale rate of all of their systems compared to their competition.

So dust or not they do seem to be doing pretty good and there's a big reason for that.

I like how this is turning into the Nintendo thread.
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