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A first hand experience with surplus and its weekly reset.Follow

#1 Aug 26 2010 at 4:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hello, this a short examination of surplus and its effect on skill ups for grinding in 2 separate long sessions of xping.

-The skill up points you receive is the amount of skill proficiency you acquire throughout the fight.
-Skill Points = (ΣProficiency-(ΣProficiency*Surplus%)
-The subtraction of surplus xp after each hit that procs a proficiency isn’t shown on your log and but it is still being calculated.

August 23, 2010
My LNC is level 27, physical level 30. I am grinding off of Fat Dodos at cederwood camp for 8 hours. Average total skill up is 400.
[img=175136]

1 hour into the grind I get 10% surplus.
437 + 47 = 484
47/484 = 10% surplus
[img=175141]

3 hours into the grind, I have 30% surplus.
322+137 = 459
137/459 = 30% surplus
[img=175138]

After 6 hours my surplus hits 50%. At this point my skill ups have been cut in half and the grind becomes almost unbearable. I stick to it for a few more hours and log.
205 + 202 = 407
202/407 = 50% surplus.
[img=175139]
#2 Aug 26 2010 at 4:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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I am now about 4k TNL. At this point I am gaining exp at half the speed when I started earlier in the day, at the same level I was when I began. I’m discouraged and I log off.

August 24, 2010
Tuesday morning, 8am PST or Japanese midnight, the surplus exp/skill up does its weekly reset.
I fight a fat dodo and receive the full 392 skill points. This continues on for about 2 hours and in no time I hit Lancer rank 28.

0% surplus!!!!
[img=175140]

Ding! 28
[img=175135]

About an hour after hitting 28, my surplus begins to rise to 10%. I am still fighting the same Fat Dodos.
290 + 29 = 219
29/219 = 10% surplus
[img=175142]

264 + 29 = 293
23/293 = 10% surplus
[img=175143]


Edited, Aug 26th 2010 6:20am by ZanDatsu
#3 Aug 26 2010 at 4:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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4-5 more hours, give or take, I hit 30% surplus. My average skill up takes a big hit. Severs go down in 48 hours, and theres no hope for rank 30 in time. I give up and log.
299+123 = 422
123/422 = 30% surplus.
[img=175137]

If I were to continue grinding on this class, eventually I would hit a brick wall of 99%. Unfortunately I do not have pics, but I did hit it at both level 18 LNC and LVL 17 THM in phase 3. No matter what I killed, No matter how much higher of a level it was. The most Skill I would ever get was 10 out of a possible 1000. Even if I had corsairs roll and an anniversary ring, it would be literally impossible to get more than 10 skill ups at 99% surplus.


Edited, Aug 26th 2010 6:11am by ZanDatsu
#4 Aug 26 2010 at 4:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hmmm, interesting. To my understanding, I thought that once the weekly timers were reset, you get a full 8 hours without any type of surplus penalty? Or, is that something planned for retail/open beta?
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#5 Aug 26 2010 at 4:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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EpedemicOptikz wrote:
Hmmm, interesting. To my understanding, I thought that once the weekly timers were reset, you get a full 8 hours without any type of surplus penalty? Or, is that something planned for retail/open beta?


After seeing how surplus works in phase three, I can confidently say that the 8 hours is probably something planned for retail. It only took me a bit more than an hour to hit surplus after weekly resets n Phase 3. You may ask, How do I know there was a reset on tuesday? Because I asked around and everybody's surplus was gone tuesday morning.
#6 Aug 26 2010 at 4:40 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks for the really detailed logging and information :)
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#7 Aug 26 2010 at 4:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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the actual translation is not in terms of hours, its in terms of projected exp per hour. or really just exp, you can and will hit surplus faster, the faster you can get exp. they explain that the mean how much exp they expect people to get an hour, and put in those terms for the rest of the interview, check elmers translation.

The system really sucks for people trying to level a job the like no matter how you slice it.
#8 Aug 26 2010 at 4:54 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks for the data it clarifies a lot.

Unfortunately based on what they declare yesterday (which seems to be different from what you just showed to us) we will need to wait for the retail to see if they are going to modify it to match what they declared, or blatantly lied to us to calm this temporally.

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#9 Aug 26 2010 at 4:58 AM Rating: Good
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Thank you for the info/pics.

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 5:59am by ShinoHaven
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#10 Aug 26 2010 at 5:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Thank you for the detailed information, this cleared up a lot for me.
Appreciate it.
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#11 Aug 26 2010 at 6:48 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks for the informative and detailed account. From what you posted it looks quite punitive. I know they said they will adjust it during open beta, so we will have to wait and see how it is then. Purely speaking on what you posted, and making no claims of how it will be in retail, that really doesn't look enjoyable...at all. You are only in your 20's and are unable to get a single level in a session before being brick walled, that seems a bit much. Here's to hoping for a nice adjustment is in the next phase of the game. Keep the info and feedback coming. It's obvious this type of information does find it's way back to the developers.
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#12 Aug 26 2010 at 6:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thanks for posting this, ZanDatsu. It's good to get a better idea of how it works.

(This turned into a mini-rant, so feel free to just skip the rest of this; I promise, you won't hurt my feelings.)
I think I could hear 1,000 different reasons why this is being implemented, and it would never make sense to me. While I am one of those who likes the journey to endgame more than endgame itself, I would never stand in the way of those whose enjoyment comes from rushing to endgame for whatever reason they want to do it. And to me, all this fatigue/surplus penalty does is keep them from enjoying the game in the way that they want. Seriously, it's one thing to enjoy being a griefing a**hat in a PvP realm, but to actually design a system which prevents (well, discourages really) players from taking the one (or few) classes they like straight to endgame (like 99% of MMOs will) just seems like an incredibly creative, deeply considered, horrible idea.

I have known enough players of MMOs from working for gaming companies over the years that if this really is as limiting as it seems, SE is going to alienate part of their player base almost immediately. If I were a player who just wanted to rush to the end with one or two classes, this is the type of red flag which would make me go from definite pre-order to "I think I'll wait until the game has launched and see what's really happening" with the added possibility of not buying if it really is so limiting. Even though I'm not a player like this, I'm still going "Hmmm..."

At this point, I'm still pre-ordering the CE, but I really don't like the idea of the fatigue/surplus xp...
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#13 Aug 26 2010 at 7:02 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks for the feedback -- great first posts. It seems the system really is as limiting as has been said, if not more so. Even as a player who looks forward to leveling every job (...I'm an admitted altaholic), this idea of surplus / fatigue greatly concerns me, as it does with a large percentage of XIV's community. Hopefully SE can own up to the possibility that their ideas aren't always superior and that their competitors might know what they're doing with the workable implementation of rested EXP instead of this crazy idea of a "surplus." I can see them keeping the fatigue system, but hopefully they scale it waaaaay down so that there's at least a middle ground between penalty and reward as opposed to solely punishment, as now seems the case.

Quote:
Thanks for posting this, ZanDatsu. It's good to get a better idea of how it works.

(This turned into a mini-rant, so feel free to just skip the rest of this; I promise, you won't hurt my feelings.)
I think I could hear 1,000 different reasons why this is being implemented, and it would never make sense to me. While I am one of those who likes the journey to endgame more than endgame itself, I would never stand in the way of those whose enjoyment comes from rushing to endgame for whatever reason they want to do it. And to me, all this fatigue/surplus penalty does is keep them from enjoying the game in the way that they want. Seriously, it's one thing to enjoy being a griefing a**hat in a PvP realm, but to actually design a system which prevents (well, discourages really) players from taking the one (or few) classes they like straight to endgame (like 99% of MMOs will) just seems like an incredibly creative, deeply considered, horrible idea.

I have known enough players of MMOs from working for gaming companies over the years that if this really is as limiting as it seems, SE is going to alienate part of their player base almost immediately. If I were a player who just wanted to rush to the end with one or two classes, this is the type of red flag which would make me go from definite pre-order to "I think I'll wait until the game has launched and see what's really happening" with the added possibility of not buying if it really is so limiting. Even though I'm not a player like this, I'm still going "Hmmm..."

At this point, I'm still pre-ordering the CE, but I really don't like the idea of the fatigue/surplus xp...

Eloquently said. Rate ^+1
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#14 Aug 26 2010 at 7:04 AM Rating: Decent
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think I could hear 1,000 different reasons why this is being implemented, and it would never make sense to me. While I am one of those who likes the journey to endgame more than endgame itself, I would never stand in the way of those whose enjoyment comes from rushing to endgame for whatever reason they want to do it.


I know of one reason that it may be. It's faster to throw this garbage in than finish the endgame SE hasn't completed yet :/ People level fast and I don't think they're ready for us. If people get there before, they'll scream "OMGZ NO ENDGAME!!!! /QUIT!" like they did with other games. Leave no more moneys to develop it :( That's my theory anyway. I'm sure they have it all planned out, but I don't think they've executed it for a september release. I'm probably wrong though.
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#15 Aug 26 2010 at 7:11 AM Rating: Good
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If this thread doesn't help convince some of the naysayers, then I don't know what will. I struggle to understand how anyone would want this limit imposed, even if you feel you would never hit it, others will, and removing it wouldn't effect those who would never hit it at all.

So why not push SE to remove it completely?

If they somehow revolved gameplay balance around this mechanic, only god can save them :p

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#16 Aug 26 2010 at 7:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the info lol from the looks of it getting lvl40 from lvl39 going to take us a month @@;
They should just rise the hours before surplus as we get higher it really the only fair thing to do 15hours at low Lvl and 30hours at high lvl per week
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#17 Aug 26 2010 at 7:57 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks for the detailed information, didn't have time to test it myself this week.

About the Surplus.. I don't know.
FFXI was capped at 50 when it first started, iirc. And then they raised the level cap in steps. So I guess that this time around, they decided to just slow us down istead of just capping us. I can see the Surplus system being removed sometimes in the near future.

Is it the right way to go? I have no idea.
#18 Aug 26 2010 at 8:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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ive waited years for this game to finally come out and i may end up not playing this game now... God i hope they fix this i will not play a game where im limited on how long i can play what i want. I have faith in SE but im freaking out about this surplus thing. I just don't know what else to say beside i have my collectors edition coming soon and if i quit before retail is released ill be sending SE my collectors edition and my new computer im building for this game's bill. :( sad day/
#19 Aug 26 2010 at 8:28 AM Rating: Decent
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I found this little bit of info on FFXIVCore:

Quote:
Addendum: the version I translated apparently had a couple lines added to it at some later time. This addition may be important for some of you. "Even if you reach the XP limit mid-week, your fatigue will recover in the time not spent skilling up. The one week period is simply a guarantee that it WILL recover then no matter what."

Apparently, the fatigue has some sort of small recovery scale when not skilling up anything. It seems that SE wants ppl to experience all parts of the game, (leveling, Storyline, etc) and are nerfing the ppl that just want to grind constantly. But like it says, even the grinders will have some sort of recovery after exhausting their 8 hrs. Even if it is just a little bit.


#20 Aug 26 2010 at 8:51 AM Rating: Excellent
Regardless of whatever fatigue refresh system they put in the whole thing falls into the "Just Not A Good Idea" category.

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Hopefully SE can own up to the possibility that their ideas aren't always superior and that their competitors


This made me lol
#21 Aug 26 2010 at 9:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Just a quick question from a n00b.

Does surplus only effect one skill at a time?
for instance, say I reach a bad percentage of surplus for my pole arm, can I then switch to fishing an be surplus free on that skill?
Or is surplus for all skill points?
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#22 Aug 26 2010 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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It seems to be another way they are forcing people to level up lots of different skills. Then again, they are surplussing the physical level too, so they are kinda preventing people from hitting caps too quickly. This system sucks, but its not going to keep me from trying the game.

also thanks for the Screenshots and legwork OP.
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#23 Aug 26 2010 at 10:11 AM Rating: Good
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As long as they figure out a way to let us do SOMETHING with the surplus exp, be in gil, crystals, some sort of temporary buffs, I'll be fine. Right now it's straight up wasted.
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#24 Aug 26 2010 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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nevermind

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 12:28pm by Dizmo
#25 Aug 26 2010 at 10:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Does surplus only effect one skill at a time?
for instance, say I reach a bad percentage of surplus for my pole arm, can I then switch to fishing an be surplus free on that skill?
Or is surplus for all skill points?


When you reach surplus status on 1 skill (Weapon) you can change to another skill (weapon/craft/DoL) and not have surplus on CLASS RANK... your phys exp (Character Level) will still have the Surplus/fatigue...

If you start off at Pug Rank 0 with Phys Lvl 0 and exp until surplus (8hrs later per se...)
and are now at Pug Rank 10 with Phys Lvl 10 then you switch to Lancer..
Lancer is not in surplus so you go for another 8 Hrs...
Your Lancer will reach surplus at Rank 10... but your Phys level will only have gone up 3 Lvls or so, instead of 10.

Also take into account.. you are going back to fighting lvl 1 mobs with a Lvl 10 phys so you will recieve less exp in that since as well, but the thing is you will not see the progression that you saw with the first class due to the surplus limitation.
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#26 Aug 26 2010 at 10:39 AM Rating: Good
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The surplus exp isn't on a timer. What they did was calculate the amount of exp they thought a player could gain in an hour then multiplied that by 8 hours and put that number as an exp cap. They then made it so you slowly start losing exp until you can't earn anymore.

So for example, let's say they thought players could gain 1000 exp per hour. You would only be able to gain 8000 exp before surplus starts kicking in (1000exp*8hours). These aren't the actual numbers, I'm just giving an example.

This affects both physical exp and class exp. Once you hit the cap for physical exp you will not be gaining any more exp for the rest of the week, however, you will still be able to gain class exp as long as you haven't hit the cap for that specific class. If you have, you will have to switch classes in order to continue gaining class exp for that week.

In any case, this is just a bad idea. It seems like SE is trying to cater to the casual audience WAY too much or they are so scared of RMT that they would be willing to ruin their game and lose their customers to keep them away.
#27 Aug 26 2010 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Something that people keep forgetting to take into account in regards to gaining xp and skill points is that for the most part in the Beta, the amount of experience you gain (phys/class) is greatly increased. While this doesn't take away the punitive element of the current system, it does beg the question of how quickly people will be hitting surplus xp in retail. For some mobs I was killing in Beta, I was receiving 5-600 skill points on a kill, with intermittent skill ups during the fight itself. Some mobs could easily rake in over 1k of skill points for a single kill all told. We can be assured this will NOT happen during retail.

While I don't fully support the system in it's current iteration, neither do I feel it's going to be nearly as bad as forums are making it out to be. I simply cannot support a system that tells me how to play a game, but I'm going to be one of the "used to be hardcore in university, now I have other obligations/responsbilities/things away from the computer I'd also like to be doing and will play mostly casually" crowd. I doubt most of us in that boat (and I'm willing to bet there's many of us, given the number of threads across various forums about age, growing up with XI, etc.) are going to hit the cap on a regular basis, except those "warrior weekends" where life lets us geek out for a while.

Here's hoping they add something constructive to the system to make it more worthwhile for the hardcore gamers out there.
#28 Aug 26 2010 at 10:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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except those "warrior weekends" where life lets us geek out for a while


We are on the same page my friend.... and I love those weekends.. they keep me going. :)
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#29 Aug 26 2010 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
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There needs to be a better balance to this system, which the recent statement from the director at least suggests they're trying to do for open/launch. I understand the incentive of having a rested bonus for casual players but why completely nerf the ability to skill up after the proposed 15 hours (8+7)? If they made it so that partying after that 15 hours allowed you to get more xp from tougher mobs then I think it would please both sides, especially old FFXIers. Making it so that you cannot get more than 10xp on skill and physical after leveling a class for 15 hours just doesn't make sense to me. I understand maybe getting a quarter of what you would with a rested bonus but not such a small fraction.

Bottom Line for SE:

Discouraging Gameplay = Discouraging Sales.

I preemptively say that encouraging players to try other classes through this system is a bogus excuse for the extreme xp gain reduction. If anything this is stalling to create endgame content.
#30 Aug 26 2010 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
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So i understand after you hit the "wall" experience will taper off until the system resets. Can you switch weapons and simply work on another job (for lack of a better word)? Will the new job still be affecting by the experience?

Can anyone confirm if this is simply related to your current weapon/job or does it affect all other classes in that same genre (DoM, DoW, etc).
#31 Aug 26 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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You can work on another job for its 8 hours before more surplus but your physical level nerfage will not reset until the week is up as I understand it.
#32 Aug 26 2010 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Can anyone confirm if this is simply related to your current weapon/job or does it affect all other classes in that same genre (DoM, DoW, etc).


It's current weapon only. Someone leveled Pugilist until surplus, then switched to Lancer with no surplus.
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#33 Aug 26 2010 at 11:42 AM Rating: Default
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I'm not quite understanding why this is so bad? It just appears that we'll need to work throughout multiple roles at the same time. I for one think they'll be plenty to do and experiment with. Personally I'm happy for the fact that I'll have time to gather materials and work on a trade, and still maintain my characters level relative to the masses!

Perhaps this was done to create a slower progression so they can create some killer end game content? ;)
#34 Aug 26 2010 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'm not quite understanding why this is so bad? It just appears that we'll need to work throughout multiple roles at the same time. I for one think they'll be plenty to do and experiment with. Personally I'm happy for the fact that I'll have time to gather materials and work on a trade, and still maintain my characters level relative to the masses!

Perhaps this was done to create a slower progression so they can create some killer end game content? ;)


For a lot of people it won't be that bad. Even for hardcore players, depending on how they play. I've said it a couple times before, but my time schedule is something like 28-35 hours a week that I plan on playing the game (or can play if I choose to), and the way I plan on doing it I doubt I'll ever hit surplus. I don't think it's the best system, I'm simply willing to experiment with different classes to continue enjoying my time in Eorzea for that week. It's bad for people who want to focus only on one class, or just want to rush straight to level cap. It's worst on principle: people shouldn't have limitations on how long they are allowed to benefit from playing each class. (Though other games do have some "casual/hardcore gap-closing restrictions," like WoW's weekly raid lockouts. They have nothing to do with the leveling experience though.)
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#35 Aug 26 2010 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
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This made me lol

Because unfinished sentences are hilarious! Or are you suggesting SE doesn't standardly go by the idea that they know best? That's the impression I got around here.
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#36 Aug 26 2010 at 12:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've been reading through all the forums and am baffled at why SE would want to penalize their harder core levelers. Everyone has different play styles. I'm very casual myself, but still like to experience end game. Why not give the casuals a big, resting XP bonus instead of taking away from those that play more?

I think SE needs to have a little more faith in their players. Not every hard core leveler is going to rush to the end, stamp their foot in anger and quit when they find no end game content. Most will simply work on their other classes until the new content comes out. Give us all a little credit SE.
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#37 Aug 26 2010 at 12:32 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Because unfinished sentences are hilarious! Or are you suggesting SE doesn't standardly go by the idea that they know best? That's the impression I got around here.


It was actually just this part:

Quote:
Hopefully SE can own up to the possibility that their ideas aren't always superior


#38 Aug 26 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't see this as a bad thing, but it's not necessarily a good thing. I mean its still good that you can change class and go level on a different surplus, but if I understood right going as a Lv1 Class and Lv10 Physical gonna decrease exp gain, be nice if there was a way to Level Sync Physical Lv to Class Lv.

As for Surplus Points they are useless and maybe if they let them be used similar to Conquest Points in Xi for each Class at their guilds to get better equipment, food, or meds. And if they're worried that taking allowing to buy stuff with points completely defeats the purpose of the system why not make Surplus Points = 0 when Physical and Weapon Points both = 0.

I don't kno what they're aiming for with this system, maybe to get people to try different Class, to get them to play less, honestly idk? To me it seems like they are making it so people can still play Xi when they can't do more here. But I don't think that's too much of the case. On average I don't kno how many hours per week I spend grinding, however I do kno I spend more time doing quests, farming, NM hunting, missions, and so forth so I don't think this is gonna effect me as much but still. I think Surplus is gonna be more of an issue pre-cap. Once capped no one is gonna think about Surplus unless leveling another Class. Just my thoughts on the matter.
#39 Aug 26 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Decent
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As someone who ONLY played one job in FFXI (with a few subs) this is a deal-breaker for me. Preorder canceled... ><
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#40 Aug 26 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Also for me, another reason when I come on with PS3 release is hopefully all of this has been worked out from either it works good or User Feedback changes SE minds on the issues at hand to either tweek it a little or completely remove it. If there are still issues 6 months after PC release I might not even want to buy it for my PS3...
#41 Aug 26 2010 at 12:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wait. Wait wait wait. You're punished for playing more? Really? Oh god that's hilarious.
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#42 Aug 26 2010 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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^^ agreed

If this is going to be the normal don't make us pay for 8 hours of play not everyone wants to play all classes. What if friends want to play together but you can't cuz you only get 8 hours to get anything? Forcing you to play other roles means unless you have friends switchen roles with you all the time no point in even making friends imo or helping them with anything cuz it will waste your own surplus... This is the most ridiculous thing that anyone could implement into a game. Highly considering just canceling my collectors edition... and just wait until they fix this. /sigh
#43 Aug 26 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
As someone who ONLY played one job in FFXI (with a few subs) this is a deal-breaker for me. Preorder canceled... ><


Why cancel your preorder? If you are the type of person to only play one job, then you will only have to deal with the surplus once. As soon as you've completed leveling that job, it will cease to affect your gameplay for the entire rest of your gaming experience. (The fact that you say you leveled sub jobs also suggests to me that you would slightly level some jobs in FFXIV to get their abilities for your main job -- something you can be doing when you hit surplus on your main.) You may have only played that one job, but you probably only spent a minority of your gaming career actually leveling that job, with the rest of your experience likely being endgame/crafting/missions/camping/etc. Obviously I don't know your case personally, but I knew a few people who only played one job for their entire career, and that's more or less how it was for them.

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 3:23pm by Kaelia88
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#44 Aug 26 2010 at 1:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thank you for the report! A picture is worth a thousand words!

But based on your experience on hitting the surplus mark merely 3 hours after reset, I say SE's estimate of projected xp per hour is waaaaaaaay off the mark. If they're adamant about the surplus system, they should definitely adjust their estimate pronto.
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#45 Aug 26 2010 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

But based on your experience on hitting the surplus mark merely 3 hours after reset, I say SE's estimate of projected xp per hour is waaaaaaaay off the mark. If they're adamant about the surplus system, they should definitely adjust their estimate pronto.


They've mentioned that players are hitting the cap sooner than is intended due to the fact that EXP gain is inflated for beta. They don't want people hitting cap in three hours, that's just the beta situation.
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#46 Aug 26 2010 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
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Kaelia88 wrote:
Quote:

But based on your experience on hitting the surplus mark merely 3 hours after reset, I say SE's estimate of projected xp per hour is waaaaaaaay off the mark. If they're adamant about the surplus system, they should definitely adjust their estimate pronto.


They've mentioned that players are hitting the cap sooner than is intended due to the fact that EXP gain is inflated for beta. They don't want people hitting cap in three hours, that's just the beta situation.

I just hope SE won't try to fix the problem by reducing XP gain.
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#47 Aug 26 2010 at 5:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I just wanted to say, about SE not wanting people to hit cap too early and /ragequit because there's no endgame content for the first few months. These ARE NOT the kind of people who are going to stick around if you keep surplus in the game, nor are they the kind of people who would play long-term in the first place. If you try to draw in casual players at the cost of hardcore players then you'll just end up alienating both groups.

But more to the point, morons who would /ragequit a game after leveling only one job to cap and doing nothing else aren't the kind of people I want in FFXIV anyways, so the quicker they get to cap the better.
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#48 Aug 26 2010 at 7:39 PM Rating: Good
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Let's address the elephant in the room...

I say just nuke experience altogether. Let us all continually grind towards level 2 for the rest of time! Think of the benefits:

- Repairing armor would be relatively easy.
- Everyone would look the same.
- Sheep would never be able to reclaim their dominance.
- Anyone venturing far out of town would be struck down.
- We'd all be familar with end game content. *problem solved*


There. It's out there! Feel fee to discuss while I go put on some "level 1" armor...
#49 Aug 26 2010 at 8:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kennedus wrote:

I'm not quite understanding why this is so bad? It just appears that we'll need to work throughout multiple roles at the same time. I for one think they'll be plenty to do and experiment with. Personally I'm happy for the fact that I'll have time to gather materials and work on a trade, and still maintain my characters level relative to the masses!



Here's the problem, and FFXI had it too: People don't necessarily WANT to play multiple roles. It almost seems to me like they sat around and said "How can we make a time sink system like Subjob, without having Subjobs" and this was the result. A lot of people really hated leveling subjobs, but we all had to do it to play the main job we wanted. This seems a lot like that, but with an artificial limitation to force it rather than a perceived utility. If I don't want to play Gladiator, I shouldn't have to - whether it be because there is some ability that my Main class requires or because I simply can no longer progress in my main class Until 11:01AM EST Sunday. It's absurd.

Unless the system is drastically changed from what I just read in the OP's log, this is just another thing that will make this a very lonely launch for FFXIV. With all the competition out there that gives to players rather than takes away, you would think that they'd get the hint.


EDIT: and as an aside, I'm getting a little weary of hearing things like "They don't have any end game ready". It makes me wonder what they have been working on all this time. Are we to seriously believe that after 5 years of development and almost a decade of MMO experience into FFXI, they didn't have the time nor inclination to have some sort of end game ready for launch? Maybe they should work on some end game content, rather than ways to try to prevent us from reaching it.



Edited, Aug 26th 2010 10:20pm by Torrence
#50 Aug 26 2010 at 8:30 PM Rating: Good
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I don't know if anyone pointed out.. what makes this system even more severe is the rate the surplus depletes throughout the week. It's painfully slow. I don't know if they gave an exact amount of time when the surplus actually falls a rank level. It seems so slow that you just might as well wait til the week is up and it's reset.
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#51 Aug 26 2010 at 9:12 PM Rating: Default
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do we know for a fact that surplus depletes at a really slow rate?
in my mind ive always thought the surplus will work like this (sorta i hope)

lets use some easy numbers
say u start leveling up,
u spend 1 min looking for a monster, and another 1 min killing it (ie battle time which effects surplus is only 1 min). u get 8 hours worth of 1 min mobs b4 surplus kicks in so that means u can pretty much kill 480 or 8 hours worth of 1 min battles b4 surplus kicks in.
now if it takes u an extra 1 min to find the mobs and another 1 min to kill it thats a total of 16 hours b4 surplus kicks in since surplus is only affected by exping u pretty much doubled ur weekly time so to speak.

now theres no way a person is gona grind none stop for 16 full hours (well some might but i think most ppl don't got that kinda time), lets say they grind (in battle mode) for only 2 hours (thats a total 4 hours if it takes 1 min to find and 1 min to kill) worth of play time for that one day, u log off and u start the refresh cycle for lets say 12-15 hours (ppl gota sleep and work/school right?) u log back in and your effectivily get back all the time u spent or atleast instead of 2 hours taken away from ur total 8 hours it drops to something like 20-40mins of ur 8 hours (i hope) ie u pretty much get most of your 8 hours a week back b4 the end of the week starts which means u get more exp time.

I HOPE thats what they are thinking or trying to do.
that way even if u grind (in battle mode) a total of 4 hours a day, logging off for a couple gours or just sitting in the town doing nothing/exploring/whatever will decrease the surplus time u got from 4 hours to like 3 hours or something.
that doesn't seem so bad to me, it just means can't grind the whole time ur on then log off and expect to do it all over again the next day. or it just means u can use ur full 8 hours then log off for like 2 days then do it again till u hit surplus again and again and again.
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