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(Surplus Info)Taken from the NA Final Fantasy XIV Beta Site.Follow

#1 Aug 26 2010 at 8:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Apparently this was the statement released for the NA people.

Grabbed this from FFXIVCore:

Quote:
Once again, we would like to thank you all for your participation and support during the Closed Beta. We will continue to take your valuable feedback into consideration as we develop the game during Open Beta and even beyond the official release.

Now I would like to take a moment to respond to the many questions and opinions regarding the manner in and rates at which experience and skill points are obtained in Beta 3.

Firstly, the concept for FINAL FANTASY XIV was to design a system of character progression that offers meaningful advancement for those with limited time to dedicate to playing. We did not want to create a game that forced people to play for hours on end to see their efforts rewarded. To that end, in addition to the Guardian's Aspect and guildleve systems, we introduced a means of apportioning swifter advancement to shorter periods of play.

In order to achieve this balance, we calculated a value for the amount of skill or experience points that could be earned in a one-hour period. This theoretical value represents an hour spent engaged solely in combat, levequests, or any other activities that earn skill or experience points, and sets a threshold delimiting how many of these points can be earned in a period of play.

Based on this, we have implemented a “threshold value” concept. These thresholds are regulated by a one-week timer that begins counting down the instant you earn skill/experience points. After a week has passed, the thresholds will reset, and the moment skill/experience points are earned again, the timer begins counting down anew.

For the first eight thresholds during this week-long period, players will receive skill/experience points at the maximum rate possible. The actual amount of time spent reaching these thresholds is not significant. That is to say, a player who exceeds eight hours of gameplay will still be rewarded the maximum amount of skill/experience points, so long as the total amount earned is below the eighth threshold value. For the subsequent seven thresholds, players will earn skill/experience points at a gradually decreasing rate, eventually reaching a rate of zero.

It is worth noting, however, that the reduced rate will also gradually recover while players are engaged in activities that do not yield skill/experience points. In this manner, it is possible for the threshold value to reset completely, even before the completion of the one-week timer.

Any skill points earned in excess of the threshold maximum—that is, at a rate of zero—will be stored as "bonus skill points." These are specific to each class, so players limited to earning bonus skill points still have the freedom to change classes and begin earning skill points again at the maximum rate, allowing their reduced skill rates to recover in the meantime.

The experience point threshold, however, is unrelated to class, and switching classes will have no effect on the decreasing rate of earnable experience.

This is how the progression system currently works.

This system was not introduced in Beta 3, but has been in place since the beginning of beta testing. There are several reasons why many people believe that these features were only recently implemented:

- Leading into Beta 3, operation hours were extended, making it possible to play more often during the span of a week.
- To encourage players to form guidleve parties in Beta 3, skill and experience point rewards for guildleves were significantly increased.
- The process that reduced the amount of skill/experience points awarded for weak enemies attacking in groups was unintentionally removed at the start of Beta 3. (This issue has been addressed.)

That last reason in particular was the biggest cause for players running up against the threshold penalty, with characters earning far more skill/experience points than we anticipated. We also faced an issue where we were simultaneously unable to adjust the amount earned for guildleves as well as the effects of crossing each threshold.

We sincerely apologize for the lack of explanation and our failure to make the necessary adjustments in the game.

The threshold values are being reexamined, and we plan to further adjust the different rates of earnable points based on feedback from our testers. One of the top issues we are looking at right now is fixing the excessively rapid drop after crossing the eighth threshold. We also plan to improve experience point reduction rates, even more so than for skill points, considering the threshold is unaffected when changing class.

At the very least, we can promise that players won't be running into the threshold penalty in the same short time span as they did in the beginning of Beta 3.

We would like to take this opportunity to also explain the following issues.

The diminishing results experienced during gathering are a function related to that class alone, and have no connection to this progression system. We are in the process of adjusting this system, and plan to make changes based on tester feedback.

We are currently in the process of considering the means in which bonus skill points can be used. There have been suggestions for various types of incentives, but as encouraging people to play with that in mind defeats the purpose of this threshold system, we will be examining this issue very carefully.

These are not the only adjustments we have planned for Open Beta. As mentioned previously, we are looking into increasing the amount of skill points earned when fighting in a party, and we look forward to seeing your input on these changes.

Last of all, I would like to apologize for the delay in releasing a developer's comment due to my recent attendance to Gamescom. The article based on my interview during that trip, coupled with conjecture, outdated information, and some misunderstandings on overseas websites, only added to the confusion. In the future, I hope to avoid similar problems by responding directly through official developer's comments as often as possible. Thank you for your understanding.

See you in the Open Beta Testing!

FINAL FANTASY XIV Director
Nobuaki Komoto


Edited, Aug 26th 2010 10:45am by deathly809

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 10:46am by deathly809
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#2 Aug 26 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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The one thing that continues to perplex me is why they call it bonus exp. Does it sit in a pile and you get it all at once the following week ? Does it just disappear ?

If it is the former, I think I'd level the more tedious of my jobs really hardcore one week, and then just switch over to them the next week, and rake in the bonus.

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 8:54am by Tarub
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#3 Aug 26 2010 at 8:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
There have been suggestions for various types of incentives, but as encouraging people to play with that in mind defeats the purpose of this threshold system


At present, it just vanishes.

Quote:
The threshold values are being reexamined, and we plan to further adjust the different rates of earnable points based on feedback from our testers. One of the top issues we are looking at right now is fixing the excessively rapid drop after crossing the eighth threshold. We also plan to improve experience point reduction rates, even more so than for skill points, considering the threshold is unaffected when changing class.


This is the one that troubles me, simply because they're looking at adjustments AFTER the initial "8 hours worth of experience" have been reached. Meaning they're not going to adjust how long it takes to start RECEIVING less than 100% XP.

Granted this is a translation, and maybe I'm just reading it wrong?

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#4 Aug 26 2010 at 8:58 AM Rating: Decent
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It is a bonus exp that has no clear function/advantage to it yet.
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#5 Aug 26 2010 at 9:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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This is not a translation. This is the official post on the Beta testers forum. You might notice that any negative wording has been removed form this information. No more mentioning of "surplus", they now use "players will earn skill/experience points at a gradually decreasing rate", even when it reaches zero it will be stored as "bonus experience"... i could go on but i guess you get the point.

This still says the same but it "sounds" a lot more positive.
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#6 Aug 26 2010 at 9:16 AM Rating: Good
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This is the part that I really care about:


Quote:
For the first eight thresholds during this week-long period, players will receive skill/experience points at the maximum rate possible. The actual amount of time spent reaching these thresholds is not significant. That is to say, a player who exceeds eight hours of gameplay will still be rewarded the maximum amount of skill/experience points, so long as the total amount earned is below the eighth threshold value. For the subsequent seven thresholds, players will earn skill/experience points at a gradually decreasing rate, eventually reaching a rate of zero.


It seems as long as the amount of xp/hour is less than some value X then no exp loss. I would like to know what that value is.

Also this is something I want more information on

Quote:
It is worth noting, however, that the reduced rate will also gradually recover while players are engaged in activities that do not yield skill/experience points. In this manner, it is possible for the threshold value to reset completely, even before the completion of the one-week timer.


What determines the rate of return? For instance if you have been playing Y hours and gained Z experience, does this kick in when Z/Y <= X?
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Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#7 Aug 26 2010 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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Ok, I found this on ffxivcore on the main page. And I'm slightly confused about it:

"Even if you reach the XP limit mid-week, your fatigue will recover in the time not spent skilling up. The one week period is simply a guarantee that it WILL recover then no matter what."

So, I play the game for 6 hours on monday afternoon and my surplus hits 50%. I grab some sleep for 6 hours, get up and go to work for 8 hours. Does that mean during those 14 hours my fatigue level will go go down to say 10% or something? Just trying to figure this out. Thanks for any help.



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#8 Aug 26 2010 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
This still says the same but it "sounds" a lot more positive.


Of course. It's all in the wording.

"We have implemented a "Rested EXP" system. When this system is available, you earn full EXP for doing quests. When it goes away, you earn only 50% EXP instead, until you gain more "Rested EXP"."

Quote:
So, I play the game for 6 hours on monday afternoon and my surplus hits 50%. I grab some sleep for 6 hours, get up and go to work for 8 hours. Does that mean during those 14 hours my fatigue level will go go down to say 10% or something? Just trying to figure this out. Thanks for any help.


I think it will be longer than that. Say, for every 24h that you don't play class X, you gain one/two tresholds.

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 3:26pm by Hyanmen
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#9 Aug 26 2010 at 9:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
So, I play the game for 6 hours on monday afternoon and my surplus hits 50%. I grab some sleep for 6 hours, get up and go to work for 8 hours. Does that mean during those 14 hours my fatigue level will go go down to say 10% or something? Just trying to figure this out. Thanks for any help.


That is what it seems like to me, I just wish I knew how it worked, like how long do I have to wait?
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Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#10 Aug 26 2010 at 9:26 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
It seems as long as the amount of xp/hour is less than some value X then no exp loss. I would like to know what that value is.


^ this. What is this magical number? If they set it high enough it could be bearable for most, but if they low ball it then it's really going to suck.

Quote:
So, I play the game for 6 hours on monday afternoon and my surplus hits 50%. I grab some sleep for 6 hours, get up and go to work for 8 hours. Does that mean during those 14 hours my fatigue level will go go down to say 10% or something? Just trying to figure this out. Thanks for any help.


That's how I understand it. If they set the threshold at a decently high amount and it refreshes at a decent rate it would be bearable.

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 8:30am by SkinwalkerAsura
#11 Aug 26 2010 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
^ this. What is this magical number? If they set it high enough it could be bearable for most, but if they low ball it then it's really going to suck.


This is exactly the type of aspect that is under construction, so it would not make sense for them to reveal the current number yet.
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#12 Aug 26 2010 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
It is a bonus exp that has no clear function/advantage to it yet.
It's not really bonus if you earned it anyway, they just took it and threw it into the nether. I know people were talking about it being like a automatic exp band or something, but that appears to have been wishful thinking.
#13 Aug 26 2010 at 9:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It's not really bonus if you earned it anyway, they just took it and threw it into the nether. I know people were talking about it being like a automatic exp band or something, but that appears to have been wishful thinking.


They already said they are thinking about various ways to use those points for something else, Alternate Advancement or something like that.

But if they make the rewards too good or exclusive, those who can not meet the maximum treshold are going to be left behind.
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#14 Aug 26 2010 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
This is exactly the type of aspect that is under construction, so it would not make sense for them to reveal the current number yet.


I just wish they would at least give an idea of what they expect of people. The surplus idea to me means this:

"If you are good, you will be punished; if you don't do it how we want you to, you will be punished."
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Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#15 Aug 26 2010 at 9:30 AM Rating: Decent
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to Deathly809 and Hyanmen:
(rated up)

thanks for the quick responces. If this how it's gonna work out it might not be as big a problem as other are making it out to be. Guess I'll wait and see when/if I get into the open beta. ^.^
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#16 Aug 26 2010 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
They already said they are thinking about various ways to use those points for something else, Alternate Advancement or something like that.


They said they would look into it. The only people who have put ideas to what it could be used for is the people on the forum.
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Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#17 Aug 26 2010 at 9:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
"If you are good, you will be punished; if you don't do it how we want you to, you will be punished."


The tricky part now is to find a way to turn that "punishment" into something more positive.

But the biggest advantage to this system is already implemented. The effort/reward ratio can be made much better, like Komoto said. There is no need for excessive TNL's to slow down hardcore while punishing casuals.

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 3:34pm by Hyanmen
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#18 Aug 26 2010 at 9:35 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
thanks for the quick responces. If this how it's gonna work out it might not be as big a problem as other are making it out to be. Guess I'll wait and see when/if I get into the open beta. ^.^


No problem, I just saw it up on FFXIVCore and noticed it was not over here. I think that if they worked the exp regen aspect such that if you sleep/work/school then the time spent there will reduce the surplus to a reasonable level then I would be happy.

I still don't like that on the weekends I am pretty much screwed though haha.
____________________________
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Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#19 Aug 26 2010 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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deathly809 wrote:
Quote:
thanks for the quick responces. If this how it's gonna work out it might not be as big a problem as other are making it out to be. Guess I'll wait and see when/if I get into the open beta. ^.^


No problem, I just saw it up on FFXIVCore and noticed it was not over here. I think that if they worked the exp regen aspect such that if you sleep/work/school then the time spent there will reduce the surplus to a reasonable level then I would be happy.

I still don't like that on the weekends I am pretty much screwed though haha.


yea I might have the same problem on the weekends too. Well, assuming my girlfriend doesn't want to go out somewhere. ^.^;;
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#20 Aug 26 2010 at 9:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
But the biggest advantage to this system is already implemented. The effort/reward ratio can be made much better, like Komoto said. There is no need for excessive TNL's to slow down hardcore while punishing casuals.


The one thing I really dislike about this is that it holds me back. I am going to not level a bunch of classes like some other people so I will have 2 or 3 classes being leveled. I am afraid that some casual players who play way less will consider themselves to be just as good or better than me because the rank of my class is the same as theirs. I really don't want to deal with people who think they are just as good as me because I am limited in class growth and we have the same rank but they are not as experienced in playing the game.
____________________________
Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#21 Aug 26 2010 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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Reflecting on this, I'd like to restate here what I mentioned in another post.

If playing 15 hours dropped you down to -50% XP, and 8 hours offline restored you to 0% [the point at which fatigue begins] I'd stop complaining about it so much. Granted, my physical level will still be capped, and I have no idea what the consequences of having a higher class level than physical level might be. . . but at this point I can overcome it. If class XP goes down and stays there for a prolonged period of time, or if the recovery rate is like 24 hours for 10% however, forcing me out of the job I was having a blast leveling. . .

Well, I don't think I'll worry about that until it happens. I'm trying to bend a little bit here and be understanding, and bring back some of my optimism for the time being.

We'll see how open beta goes, and for the time being I'll set aside my opinions and reserve judgment.


Quote:
I am afraid that some casual players who play way less will consider themselves to be just as good or better than me because the rank of my class is the same as theirs


All players are created equal.

However, some players are *MORE* equal than others ;)

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 11:41am by seneleron
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#22 Aug 26 2010 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
yea I might have the same problem on the weekends too. Well, assuming my girlfriend doesn't want to go out somewhere. ^.^;;


girlfriend? What are those?
____________________________
Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#23 Aug 26 2010 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
Maybe surplus points will turn into something like Conquest Points? That way, those who do lose points to surplus could buy some super-babe-style boots and get in-game bonuses!
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#24 Aug 26 2010 at 9:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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deathly809 wrote:
Quote:
yea I might have the same problem on the weekends too. Well, assuming my girlfriend doesn't want to go out somewhere. ^.^;;


girlfriend? What are those?


The other thing in my life that comes with a monthly service charge and a surplus limit.
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#25 Aug 26 2010 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Maybe surplus points will turn into something like Conquest Points? That way, those who do lose points to surplus could buy some super-babe-style boots and get in-game bonuses!


Quote:
We are currently in the process of considering the means in which bonus skill points can be used. There have been suggestions for various types of incentives, but as encouraging people to play with that in mind defeats the purpose of this threshold system, we will be examining this issue very carefully.


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#26 Aug 26 2010 at 9:44 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
girlfriend? What are those?


Ok dude, I think this system was made for you :P
#27 Aug 26 2010 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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RSquires wrote:
deathly809 wrote:
Quote:
yea I might have the same problem on the weekends too. Well, assuming my girlfriend doesn't want to go out somewhere. ^.^;;


girlfriend? What are those?


The other thing in my life that comes with a monthly service charge and a surplus limit.


Lol a much deserved rate up good sir!
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#28 Aug 26 2010 at 9:51 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
If playing 15 hours dropped you down to -50% XP, and 8 hours offline restored you to 0% [the point at which fatigue begins] I'd stop complaining about it so much. Granted, my physical level will still be capped, and I have no idea what the consequences of having a higher class level than physical level might be. . . but at this point I can overcome it. If class XP goes down and stays there for a prolonged period of time, or if the recovery rate is like 24 hours for 10% however, forcing me out of the job I was having a blast leveling. . .


Yeah I totally agree, if I can play and by the time I am done I still have some exp gain, then the next day get on it has pretty much reset because I was not playing for 9 hours then great. I still find it horrible that they have the system at all; what if I am on vacation and want to play for idk, 20 hours straight, sleep 6 hours, then 20 more hours of game?

I still want to know why they are really doing this, the reasons I have heard are:

  • RMT
  • Keep Casual and Hardcore levels close together
  • Keep players from end game too soon
  • *SE ROLLS A 7!* Surplus Experience will be added!

  • To the first point, I am sure there are other ways to handle RMT, and as other people have mentioned it is not in SE best interest to remove all RMT because it keeps players paying.

    Second point, I understand that there might be problem of a big level gap between the hardcore and casual, but honestly should I be punished because some people have more things in their lives?

    The third point, is this; If I get there and it is not implemented so what. I am sure I will still have more things I can do such as:

  • Farm
  • Craft
  • Level soemthing else if I want

  • The last point, they wanted to try something new. Good for them, not for me.

    Gotta cut this short, time for lunch haha.
    ____________________________
    Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

    Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
    "That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
    Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
    #29 Aug 26 2010 at 9:51 AM Rating: Good
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    Hyanmen wrote:
    Quote:
    It's not really bonus if you earned it anyway, they just took it and threw it into the nether. I know people were talking about it being like a automatic exp band or something, but that appears to have been wishful thinking.


    They already said they are thinking about various ways to use those points for something else, Alternate Advancement or something like that.

    But if they make the rewards too good or exclusive, those who can not meet the maximum treshold are going to be left behind.


    Exactly, this just shows how ill-conceived this whole system is. It should not exist. No matter how much they going to tweak, twist and turn it. It will just produce more and more problems down the line.

    You can't calculate a reasonable amount of experience because we are talking about a million or more people that have ever changing schedules, holidays, free time. It constantly changes, there is no way to calculate a reasonable amount, except the amount you SE want them to get to slow them down reaching the level cap.

    This whole thing is not about casual players at all. It's a blatant lie and i for one don't like to be lied to.

    What worries me most however: The whole social aspect is out of the window already because everyone will think twice about helping someone if it potentially screws them on the weekend with surplus experience.

    I wish they just admit that this is a complete ****-up and think of something that actually works.
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    #30 Aug 26 2010 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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    Quote:
    Ok dude, I think this system was made for you :P


    Lol, I am too introverted and strange for a girl. Also I don't like BS, so I could never date lol. Also I plan on moving far away from here soon!
    ____________________________
    Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

    Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
    "That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
    Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
    #31 Aug 26 2010 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    For the first eight thresholds during this week-long period, players will receive skill/experience points at the maximum rate possible.


    First 8? (>...>? 1 week = 7 days, so how is it calculated?

    Quote:
    It is worth noting, however, that the reduced rate will also gradually recover while players are engaged in activities that do not yield skill/experience points. In this manner, it is possible for the threshold value to reset completely, even before the completion of the one-week timer.


    They do know that crafting and harvesting stuff DOES yield Exp? (>..........<

    Quote:
    Any skill points earned in excess of the threshold maximum—that is, at a rate of zero—will be stored as "bonus skill points." These are specific to each class, so players limited to earning bonus skill points still have the freedom to change classes and begin earning skill points again at the maximum rate, allowing their reduced skill rates to recover in the meantime.


    Ok.... change class reset Skill points

    Quote:
    The experience point threshold, however, is unrelated to class, and switching classes will have no effect on the decreasing rate of earnable experience.


    Ouch...




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    #32 Aug 26 2010 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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    Quote:
    The one thing I really dislike about this is that it holds me back. I am going to not level a bunch of classes like some other people so I will have 2 or 3 classes being leveled. I am afraid that some casual players who play way less will consider themselves to be just as good or better than me because the rank of my class is the same as theirs. I really don't want to deal with people who think they are just as good as me because I am limited in class growth and we have the same rank but they are not as experienced in playing the game.


    Remember, that horizontal growth is just as important as vertical growth in this game.

    Those "casuals" might be the same rank as you are, but you have 3x the abilities and spells than they do, or even more.

    Not to mention the time it takes to get +1/2/3 equipment that will make you stand apart from the rest even more.

    Granted, I wouldn't see this system working in any other game. You can never halt all the progression of a player, that would be self-destructing.

    Quote:
    Exactly, this just shows how ill-conceived this whole system is. It should not exist. No matter how much they going to tweak, twist and turn it. It will just produce more and more problems down the line.


    This is just one of the potential systems a game needs.

    They could of course, make the grind longer and achieve the same thing.

    But in a game like this, where leveling many classes is almost mandatory, that would be worse than what we have now IMO. Especially for casuals.

    One must realize that if company wants to keep both casuals and hardcore players in the game, measures need to be taken. And this is just one of those measures, which in my opinion works a lot better for this game than excessive grind does.

    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 3:59pm by Hyanmen
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    We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

    #33 Aug 26 2010 at 9:57 AM Rating: Good
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    From Seneleron:
    Quote:
    and I have no idea what the consequences of having a higher class level than physical level might be


    I am sure that you will not be able to do this. Just think about it for a second; I can't explain right now, sister is calling for lunch!
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    Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

    Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
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    #34 Aug 26 2010 at 9:59 AM Rating: Good
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    Quote:
    Remember, that horizontal growth is just as important as vertical growth in this game.

    Those "casuals" might be the same rank as you are, but you have 3x the abilities and spells than they do, or even more.


    You have to remember that horizontal growth is important to you in this game, not to me. Also you are limited in how many abilities you can use from other classes, and the abilities or gimped.


    Quote:
    Not to mention the time it takes to get +1/2/3 equipment that will make you stand apart from the rest even more.


    This would mean you would have to farm for those hours instead of leveling.
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    #35 Aug 26 2010 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
    Sorry, I just started reading PA this week and I couldn't resist, given the timing.

    Screenshot

    Though initially opposed to the system, I'm going to refrain from forming an opinion until I see what (if any) changes will be made between Phase 3 and Open Beta, as well as how it really will affect gameplay.
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    #36 Aug 26 2010 at 10:02 AM Rating: Decent
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    Seems like an overly complex system to fix a relatively simple "problem". They should just have players acrue bonus exp while they are logged off that they earn when they do play. Maybe add an activated "double exp" buff once per week as well.

    All these thresholds and obscure bonuses/penalties are needlessly complicated. It doesn't matter how much spinning they try to do, ANY exp penalty will be greeted with hostility.
    #37 Aug 26 2010 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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    Quote:
    I am sure that you will not be able to do this. Just think about it for a second; I can't explain right now, sister is calling for lunch!


    Why not? It takes less XP [from what I've seen so far in the beta] to raise a class vs a physical level. SE admits they're upping class points in parties

    Quote:
    As mentioned previously, we are looking into increasing the amount of skill points earned when fighting in a party


    And while Physical XP will cap @ approximately 15 hours of gametime, class levels will NOT.

    It depends on if they end up deciding if the fatigue cap is 0% or a more reasonable 50%, and at what rate your XP fatigue decays.

    Depending on how they end up deciding to run with this, it's VERY possible in theory :)

    Sure, and it's also very possible in theory that someone @ SE will wake up, realize they've essentially created a monster disaster, and remove the entire fatigue system from the game as well ;)

    but until we know, I can dream . . .

    [this edit brought to you by the letter "o"]

    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 12:05pm by seneleron
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    #38 Aug 26 2010 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
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    PLDXavier, Defender of Justice wrote:
    Sorry, I just started reading PA this week and I couldn't resist, given the timing.

    Screenshot


    I remember this. Although it only reduced exp earned to about 50% and didn't go lower if I recall. I think they later reduced all exp earned from monsters and gave players 200% exp for the first few hours then reduced it to 100%. Which is really the same as it was before, but it sounds more positive. Then later they switched to "Rested/Bonus" exp for logging out long periods of time.

    Anyway, I'm kinda burned out talking(speculating) about surplus exp right now and I'm prepared to make my final judgment after release. No doubt A LOT of new information will be uncovered/revealed during that time.
    #39 Aug 26 2010 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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    Hyanmen wrote:
    Quote:
    Exactly, this just shows how ill-conceived this whole system is. It should not exist. No matter how much they going to tweak, twist and turn it. It will just produce more and more problems down the line.


    This is just one of the potential systems a game needs.

    They could of course, make the grind longer and achieve the same thing.

    But in a game like this, where leveling many classes is almost mandatory, that would be worse than what we have now IMO. Especially for casuals.

    One must realize that if company wants to keep both casuals and hardcore players in the game, measures need to be taken. And this is just one of those measures, which in my opinion works a lot better for this game than excessive grind does.


    I do understand what you saying but i have to disagree. Let me explain.

    The system is not in place to help the casual players. It is in place to stop the regular and hardcore players from reaching cap too fast. In no way does any casual player benefit from it.

    If casual players would get a bonus i would agree with you.

    If the system would for example give an incentive to hardcore players to level with the casual players by syncing down to their level. We would have something that benefits both and helps the social aspect of the game.

    As it is now this system only punishes not rewards or encourages. It completely destroys the social aspect by punishing those that have more time helping others as any help you give counts towards your "limit".

    FFXI has this great community because people like to help each other, do things together without the fear of hitting a brick wall before the weekend comes around when they start their leveling grind.

    This system is BAD. No matter how much you spin it.
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    #40 Aug 26 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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    Quote:
    You have to remember that horizontal growth is important to you in this game, not to me. Also you are limited in how many abilities you can use from other classes, and the abilities or gimped.


    Some people like racing games, some like RTS.

    Same applies to MMO's, they are not a single entity. Think WRPG vs JRPG.

    I am sorry to hear that you are not fan of horizontal growth, but it is very important in this game and thinking of it as a bad thing is just a subjective opinion.

    Quote:
    The system is not in place to help the casual players. It is in place to stop the regular and hardcore players from reaching cap too fast. In no way does any casual player benefit from it.


    Are you sure of that?

    This system is a side-effect of the developers decision to make the game as grindless as possible. We do not know just how much of a difference it makes, but you can be sure that if this system were to be removed, they would up the TNL's as well- something that casuals would not agree with. Who wants to play a game where you need to play for a week to achieve a single level?

    It is understandable if someone would prefer to have more grind than get their freedom taken away- but its not as black and white situation as many would believe, unfortunately.

    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 4:27pm by Hyanmen
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    We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

    #41 Aug 26 2010 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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    Hyanmen wrote:
    Quote:
    The one thing I really dislike about this is that it holds me back. I am going to not level a bunch of classes like some other people so I will have 2 or 3 classes being leveled. I am afraid that some casual players who play way less will consider themselves to be just as good or better than me because the rank of my class is the same as theirs. I really don't want to deal with people who think they are just as good as me because I am limited in class growth and we have the same rank but they are not as experienced in playing the game.


    Remember, that horizontal growth is just as important as vertical growth in this game.

    Those "casuals" might be the same rank as you are, but you have 3x the abilities and spells than they do, or even more.

    Not to mention the time it takes to get +1/2/3 equipment that will make you stand apart from the rest even more.

    Granted, I wouldn't see this system working in any other game. You can never halt all the progression of a player, that would be self-destructing.

    Quote:
    Exactly, this just shows how ill-conceived this whole system is. It should not exist. No matter how much they going to tweak, twist and turn it. It will just produce more and more problems down the line.


    This is just one of the potential systems a game needs.

    They could of course, make the grind longer and achieve the same thing.

    But in a game like this, where leveling many classes is almost mandatory, that would be worse than what we have now IMO. Especially for casuals.

    One must realize that if company wants to keep both casuals and hardcore players in the game, measures need to be taken. And this is just one of those measures, which in my opinion works a lot better for this game than excessive grind does.

    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 3:59pm by Hyanmen


    IMHO, artificially increasing the game's length by putting a damper on one's ability to play it is an atrocious solution. The addition of new content is a much more legitimate way of prolonging a game's life.

    If the goal is to help bolster the standing of casual players, then a "rested exp" system would accomplish this goal perfectly well.

    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 12:28pm by Eske
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    #42 Aug 26 2010 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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    Quote:
    IMHO, artificially increasing the game's length by putting a damper on one's ability to play it is an atrocious solution. The addition of new content is a much more legitimate way of prolonging a game's life.


    Obviously.

    But can you give SE enough proof that they should delay this game's release by months (which would mean zero revenue for that time, as well as more time for players to enjoy the free beta test) instead of doing something like this?

    I don't say that I agree with the company's decision, but I can see why they (and every other company) would do this.
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    Quote:
    We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

    #43 Aug 26 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Good
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    Hyanmen wrote:
    Quote:
    IMHO, artificially increasing the game's length by putting a damper on one's ability to play it is an atrocious solution. The addition of new content is a much more legitimate way of prolonging a game's life.


    Obviously.

    But can you give SE enough proof that they should delay this game's release by months (which would mean zero revenue for that time, as well as more time for players to enjoy the free beta test) instead of doing something like this?

    I don't say that I agree with the company's decision, but I can see why they (and every other company) would do this.


    I don't think I understand. Why does it have to be one or the other?

    I think most people would be sated if SE just acknowledged that the system needs a serious looking at, and that they would consider giving it a full overhaul (or removal) soon after release. They could just scrap the exp penalty in the meantime. I highly doubt that removing the exp penalty could delay the game past its intended release date.

    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 12:33pm by Eske
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    #44 Aug 26 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Good
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    So does it mean 8hrs just logged in or 8hrs in combat mode..? Slightly confused
    #45 Aug 26 2010 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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    Quote:
    I don't think I understand. Why does it have to be one or the other?


    I mean, that they would either artificially increase the game's length like this, or they would raise the EXP needed to level- each being "bad" solutions, but only for one demographic.
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    #46 Aug 26 2010 at 10:39 AM Rating: Good
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    Darkblu wrote:
    So does it mean 8hrs just logged in or 8hrs in combat mode..? Slightly confused


    I believe it's just combat hours as I know others were asking the same question in regards to them actually doing something or just being AFK in town.
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    #47 Aug 26 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    Firstly, the concept for FINAL FANTASY XIV was to design a system of character progression that offers meaningful advancement for those with limited time to dedicate to playing. We did not want to create a game that forced people to play for hours on end to see their efforts rewarded.


    This is the most important part of the post. Trading excessive grind for surplus. I hope everyone would be able to realize what they are doing, because this is something you will only notice when it's gone.
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    Quote:
    We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

    #48 Aug 26 2010 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
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    Hyanmen wrote:
    Quote:
    The system is not in place to help the casual players. It is in place to stop the regular and hardcore players from reaching cap too fast. In no way does any casual player benefit from it.


    Are you sure of that?

    This system is a side-effect of the developers decision to make the game as grindless as possible. We do not know just how much of a difference it makes, but you can be sure that if this system were to be removed, they would up the TNL's as well- something that casuals would not agree with. Who wants to play a game where you need to play for a week to achieve a single level?

    It is understandable if someone would prefer to have more grind than get their freedom taken away- but its not as black and white situation as many would believe, unfortunately.


    Yes i am sure. The rate of experience you get as casual player, solo or doing guildleves is so small it will take the casual players ages already to reach cap. Even with 8 guildleves every 2 days since they don't give that much bonus anymore, in fact it's barely 10%.

    The experience curve and experience gained is comparable to FFXI. And you tell me a casual can hit 75 (or 80 now) there in a reasonable time?

    Now you might say they can increase experience, but this will make the not casual hit the brick wall even faster and the casuals will suddenly get close to hitting it too.

    Thats why i keep saying this system is BROKEN. It is complete nonsense no mater how you adjust it. You adjust one end you break something else on the other side.
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    #49 Aug 26 2010 at 10:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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    Here are a couple of posts i have found that were interesting.

    Quote:
    (8k an hour)...Is the current cap from some rough math.


    This is based on the amount of exp needed to hit level 14(start of surplus) divided by 8 hours

    64000/8= 8000 Exp

    A loose estimate of the remaining degraded hours will net roughly 50% more leaving the exp cap per week at about 90k

    Just some rough numbers for those who are still confused by how much the exp cap effects them.


    Quote:
    As $#$%^ mentioned in another thread based on realistic exp amounts (not the inflated beta3 amounts)

    It'll still take a **** of a long to reach 90k exp in any given week. the real down fall comes to those who REALLY want to reach level cap as you are looking at roughly 5 months at current TNL curve to reach it.


    90k is a lot of xp. This whole surplus thing is gonna hang on the balance of the amount of xp we will see per kill in retail.
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    #50 Aug 26 2010 at 10:45 AM Rating: Decent
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    RSquires wrote:
    Darkblu wrote:
    So does it mean 8hrs just logged in or 8hrs in combat mode..? Slightly confused


    I believe it's just combat hours as I know others were asking the same question in regards to them actually doing something or just being AFK in town.


    NO! It's what they calculated to be a reasonable exp/hour and they calculated 8h from that. No one knows exactly how much experience that is.

    The system IS NOT based on time, it is based on EXP GAINED.
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    #51 Aug 26 2010 at 10:45 AM Rating: Decent
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    One way to make people subscribe for longer i guess :)

    Can't say I'm a fan of paying to play and getting told how long to play for.. Kinda like paying for cable and only bein able to watch 8hrs a week :P
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