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#252 Aug 26 2010 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
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317 posts
Quote:
You are making you unhappy. Not being allowed to level endlessly without penalty shouldn't matter to you.


I think he meant you are making yourself unhappy because you see other people are doing better than you. You want to hold people back because you are unhappy that they can get ahead and in effect have a greater effect on the game.
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#253 Aug 26 2010 at 5:41 PM Rating: Decent
you guys have some good points. I have to admit it.

deathly809 wrote:
Quote:
You are making you unhappy. Not being allowed to level endlessly without penalty shouldn't matter to you.


I think he meant you are making yourself unhappy because you see other people are doing better than you. You want to hold people back because you are unhappy that they can get ahead and in effect have a greater effect on the game.


This isn't one of them. It is a bit personally insulting to suggest that.

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 4:43pm by Olorinus
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#254 Aug 26 2010 at 5:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
ascorbic wrote:


You made you unhappy. People being higher level than you shouldn't matter to you.


You are making you unhappy. Not being allowed to level endlessly without penalty shouldn't matter to you.


Some people like to level endlessly, so this affects the way they can play. How does other people being a higher level than you affect you?

Follow up question: What about the people who have LESS time than YOU have? Should YOU be penalized so THEY don't feel bad?
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#255 Aug 26 2010 at 5:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
you guys have some good points. I have to admit it.


*ahem*

NO U!
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#256 Aug 26 2010 at 5:42 PM Rating: Good
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296 posts
Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
ascorbic wrote:


You made you unhappy. People being higher level than you shouldn't matter to you.


You are making you unhappy. Not being allowed to level endlessly without penalty shouldn't matter to you.


???? Try harder next time... you HAVE to know better than that.

OK, by that analogy, let's reduce your productive playtime to... 1/3 of what you want - whatever that may be. Want to (and have time to) level 6 hours a week? You now get two. Why ? Polly Prissy Pants in Hoboken, NJ has "more of a life" than you. So now you play at her speed so she "can have fun too" Still pleased as punch? Your game, your free time, her schedule.

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 7:44pm by ascorbic
#257 Aug 26 2010 at 5:42 PM Rating: Good
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275 posts
I hope that when people are saying they want a "more fair" system for hardcore gamers that they are not referring to the system that existed in FFXI. FFXI was just as cruel towards casual players as the surplus system is towards hardcore players. (Or perhaps even moreso, as even endgame events required tons of time, not just leveling.) If someone is going to argue that FFXIV is unfair "on principle" (as in "SE should not be able to dictate my progression") I would hope that they would also argue that FFXI was unfair "on principle" (as casual players could accomplish next to nothing, which is far more severe than just not being able to zerg one class to cap). If not, it's just hypocrisy. If you're referring to a nice in-between, carry on. (Though I'd love to see what that in-between is, as the currently suggested rested EXP would not cut it.)
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#258 Aug 26 2010 at 5:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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317 posts
Quote:
you guys have some good points. I have to admit it.


Thanks, even though we disagree I still hope you enjoy the game no matter what happens. If they remove the exp cap you still have quests, guild leves, and soloing. Also there are bound to be more casual players than FFXI, also other people will be wanting to level other jobs also.

I don't think the cap will stop some small percentage of people controlling the economy though.
____________________________
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Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#259 Aug 26 2010 at 5:44 PM Rating: Decent
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62 posts
Wow, this discussion is awesome. Lol. I like surplus. I like it because it fits the way I play. Somebody way back on page 2 posted a very sober appraisal of what surplus does for the game. Paraphrasing here, but it goes something like, "SE decided that it should take you ~7 days to level from lvl 69 to lvl 70. They can accomplish this 1 of 2 ways: They can take the amount of time the average player plays per day, and then the average amount of exp/hour on a decent party, and make the TNL for that level equal the amount of exp said player will gain in one week. Alternatively, they could make the TNL equal to what the player will gain in ~12 hours of play, but limit the amount of experience they are actually able to gain in a week. Both have the same result, the player hits level 70 in 1 week. One can be accomplished in 12 hours, while the other takes 25. Everybody wins with method 2, as the casual gamers may only be able to play 12 hours in a week, while the more hardcore can take those other 13 hours to do whatever they want."

I am fairly certain that they have a loose schedule of when they want players to make certain levels, and all MMOs are built with this in mind. SE is just being more honest about it and letting you choose how to spend the time that you would otherwise be spending on gaining the other half of your TNL. If it makes you feel better, you could just get into a party and grind those other 13 hours for 0 exp.

I retyped that last sentence two times trying to make it sound less sarcastic... but I think I hit my typing surplus and I'm just making no progress.
#260 Aug 26 2010 at 5:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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I FINALLY GET IT!!!!...i think. the whole purpose of the system is to give people a chance to enjoy the rest of the game without having to grind. There trying to give us the same ammount of lvls in a shorter time.If they eliminate this sytem, they will have to increase the amount of EXP to next level.So by the end of the week we will still be at the same level... just wasted that much more time trying to get there.

This is what beta is meant for, trying to find this balance. I guarantee that once people start to lvl there going to gauge where people are and adjust acordingly. Remember.. this is software coding, things like these get changed with version updates constantly in the begining. Also.. do you know how many skill up parties i was in not gaining any exp? Atleast with this system your still gaining some form of advancement(Surplus Exp).

All in all its a unique twist on leveling that may have many pros adjusted correctly. No need for knee-jerk reactions just quite yet. This is not a punishment to Hardcore players, nor an advantage to casual gamers. You hardcore gamers with more time will still have certin advantages. Let me list some pros and cons
    HARDCORE PLAYER ADVANTAGES

*More skill ups\abilities
*More time farming\gaining money.. thus better gear
*Better understand of game and(hopefully)better at the game
*More friends
*More Story unlocked
to be honest this list can get pretty long

    POSSIBLE DISADVANTAGES

*party needing a job you've already leveled on
*hitting cap before your desired level(this is all dependent on personal play style)
to be honest these have been the major gripes about this sytem
I would love to have people add constructive\non bias pros and cons.



Edited, Aug 26th 2010 7:49pm by jtully
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#261 Aug 26 2010 at 5:45 PM Rating: Decent
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:


Some people like to level endlessly, so this affects the way they can play. How does other people being a higher level than you affect you?



If I can't enjoy the game without doing the same - then it effects me. If they don't make it so I need to spend 20 hours farming for basic equipment - it wouldn't bother me. My experience in FFXI has jaded me though.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#262 Aug 26 2010 at 5:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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11,539 posts
deathly809 wrote:
Quote:
you guys have some good points. I have to admit it.


Thanks, even though we disagree I still hope you enjoy the game no matter what happens. If they remove the exp cap you still have quests, guild leves, and soloing. Also there are bound to be more casual players than FFXI, also other people will be wanting to level other jobs also.

I don't think the cap will stop some small percentage of people controlling the economy though.


The earmark of a mature person is one who can argue with people without taking **** personally.

Sadly, you don't see enough of that nowadays.

Much love all around.
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#263 Aug 26 2010 at 5:46 PM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:


Some people like to level endlessly, so this affects the way they can play. How does other people being a higher level than you affect you?



If I can't enjoy the game without doing the same - then it effects me. If they don't make it so I need to spend 20 hours farming for basic equipment - it wouldn't bother me. My experience in FFXI has jaded me though.


I've never had a problem enjoying a game without needing the be the highest level. Focus less on the goal and enjoy the journey :)
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#264 Aug 26 2010 at 5:47 PM Rating: Decent
Kaelia88 wrote:
I hope that when people are saying they want a "more fair" system for hardcore gamers that they are not referring to the system that existed in FFXI. FFXI was just as cruel towards casual players as the surplus system is towards hardcore players. (Or perhaps even moreso, as even endgame events required tons of time, not just leveling.) If someone is going to argue that FFXIV is unfair "on principle" (as in "SE should not be able to dictate my progression") I would hope that they would also argue that FFXI was unfair "on principle" (as casual players could accomplish next to nothing, which is far more severe than just not being able to zerg one class to cap). If not, it's just hypocrisy. If you're referring to a nice in-between, carry on. (Though I'd love to see what that in-between is, as the currently suggested rested EXP would not cut it.)


This!

It isn't so much that I want to limit other people - but that I want to be able to play the game and have fun with the time I have. It is a game - you shouldn't need to spend a million hours on it to have fun or just to play with others.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#265 Aug 26 2010 at 5:47 PM Rating: Decent
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The fact is the complainers are trying to turn the game into something it's not. The "every other MMO is a timesink" is justification right there that FFXIV is trying to stand out from every other MMO. What's the point if it's just another FFXI, WoW, Star Wars Galaxy, Age of Conan......clone. The game is still going to be a timesink, but SE wants people to play it at a certain pace. If you don't like the pace, then go play "every other MMO" that allows the 12hour a day zerg grind pace. My draw to this game from the beginning was that it wasn't going to be another FFXI and that it would be focused on casual playtime.
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#266 Aug 26 2010 at 5:48 PM Rating: Default
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I've never had a problem enjoying a game without needing the be the highest level. Focus less on the goal and enjoy the journey :)


I've never cared about being the highest level - I think you know that. What I did care about was not being able to do ANYTHING FUN unless I had 5 hours to play. I will almost never have 5 hours solid to play now. I want to be able to enjoy the game.

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 4:49pm by Olorinus
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#267 Aug 26 2010 at 5:50 PM Rating: Good
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296 posts
Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
you guys have some good points. I have to admit it.

deathly809 wrote:
Quote:
You are making you unhappy. Not being allowed to level endlessly without penalty shouldn't matter to you.


I think he meant you are making yourself unhappy because you see other people are doing better than you. You want to hold people back because you are unhappy that they can get ahead and in effect have a greater effect on the game.


This isn't one of them. It is a bit personally insulting to suggest that.


Forgive my gruffness, but I'm not trying to flatter you, or your opinion. Though I may never get to play this game enough to bump into this system, I find it very insulting when people try to project their preferences onto others, and encourage forcing people to do things the way they do. Envy is very ugly, and this thread is painted with it. If you never felt that envy and resentment of your fellow player, then I'll apologize. But if envy and resentment don't drive you, your earlier posts about those "No life" hardcores make even less sense...

Let the kids play, for crying out loud.
#268 Aug 26 2010 at 5:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I've never had a problem enjoying a game without needing the be the highest level. Focus less on the goal and enjoy the journey :)


I've never cared about being the highest level - I think you know that. What I did care about was not being able to do ANYTHING FUN unless I had 5 hours to play. I will almost never have 5 hours solid to play now. I want to be able to enjoy the game.

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 4:49pm by Olorinus


I agree that you shouldn't need 5 hours to accomplish anything.

I disagree that the people who have 5 hours and therefore want to accomplish more should be limited in what they can accomplish.
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#269 Aug 26 2010 at 5:52 PM Rating: Good
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296 posts
Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
Kaelia88 wrote:
I hope that when people are saying they want a "more fair" system for hardcore gamers that they are not referring to the system that existed in FFXI. FFXI was just as cruel towards casual players as the surplus system is towards hardcore players. (Or perhaps even moreso, as even endgame events required tons of time, not just leveling.) If someone is going to argue that FFXIV is unfair "on principle" (as in "SE should not be able to dictate my progression") I would hope that they would also argue that FFXI was unfair "on principle" (as casual players could accomplish next to nothing, which is far more severe than just not being able to zerg one class to cap). If not, it's just hypocrisy. If you're referring to a nice in-between, carry on. (Though I'd love to see what that in-between is, as the currently suggested rested EXP would not cut it.)


This!

It isn't so much that I want to limit other people - but that I want to be able to play the game and have fun with the time I have. It is a game - you shouldn't need to spend a million hours on it to have fun or just to play with others.


Well, as he said.. this system doesn't give you what you want. I want to play with my limited time too, but I know enough to see that punishing people with more time than I have doesn't magically make my time any more productive, or fun.

It sounds like we want much of the same thing. If XIV gives it to us, it isn't gonna be surplus that does it. It's gonna be Better LFG systems, a more balanced economy, better travel options, solo viability, quick-to-implement questing... those things help the casual market. Keeping the hardcores on a leash does nothing for us at all.

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 7:55pm by ascorbic
#270 Aug 26 2010 at 5:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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(07:48:12 PM) Deathly809: lol
(07:48:19 PM) Deathly809: I need paper!
(07:48:26 PM) Mikhalia: the problem is simpler than you're making it.
(07:48:29 PM) Deathly809: NO
(07:48:32 PM) Deathly809: I must prove it
(07:48:35 PM) Mikhalia: you can't put a negative in the denominator.
(07:48:37 PM) Mikhalia: You just can't.
(07:48:39 PM) Mikhalia: Period.
(07:48:40 PM) Deathly809: yes you can :P
(07:48:50 PM) Mikhalia: once I said -1/1 = 1/-1 it became false at this point
(07:48:52 PM) Tidane: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTS16klgqMU
(07:49:04 PM) Deathly809: it just means (1 / -1 ) = - ( 1 / 1 )
(07:49:10 PM) Kagutsuchi: we must be really ******* bored to be arguing over math
(07:49:19 PM) Tidane: We can talk about surplus, if you want...
(07:49:22 PM) Kagutsuchi: though it's better than talking about surplus again
(07:49:24 PM) Mikhalia: We'll keep arguing until math hits surplus
(07:49:25 PM) Mikhalia: lol
(07:49:32 PM) Deathly809: lol
(07:49:35 PM) Kagutsuchi: ******* IT, WHY DID ALL OF US INSTANTLY THINK OF THAT?
(07:49:57 PM) Kagutsuchi: see what it's done to us?
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#271 Aug 26 2010 at 5:55 PM Rating: Good
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This thread is now about .999.... = 1

Discuss.
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#272 Aug 26 2010 at 5:55 PM Rating: Decent
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317 posts
Quote:
This isn't one of them. It is a bit personally insulting to suggest that.


You said that you don't want players to race ahead to the end of the game and then ***** up the economy.

If that is what you don't want then that would make you unhappy.
____________________________
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Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#273Grand Master Scribe Olorinus, Posted: Aug 26 2010 at 5:56 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It's not envy to want to play and enjoy a game I've been looking forward to for a long time. People who want to play all the time still can - they will just have to do it differently. And people like me who would like to play more but simply can't will still be able to have fun.
#274 Aug 26 2010 at 5:56 PM Rating: Good
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577 posts
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
This thread is now about .999.... = 1

Discuss.


Indeed.

x = 0.9...
10x = 9.9...
10x-x = 9.9... - 0.9...
9x = 9
x=1

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 7:59pm by khorbin
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#275 Aug 26 2010 at 5:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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1/3 = .333...

2/3 = .666...

.333... + .666... = .999...

1/3 + 2/3 = 3/3 = 1

.333... + .666... = .999... = 1

Therefore .999... = 1
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#276 Aug 26 2010 at 5:59 PM Rating: Good
NO, .999 does not equal 1! Prove it! I refuse to believe!






Yes, I know that it does. But anything is better than continuing talking about that-which-shall-not-be-named.
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#277 Aug 26 2010 at 6:00 PM Rating: Default
ascorbic wrote:


I want to play with my limited time too, but I know enough to see that punishing people with more time than I have doesn't magically make my time any more productive, or fun.


First of all, it isn't a punishment of anyone. Everyone can still play as much as they want, and progress but just horizontally - they still get benefits.

Second of all, as others have pointed out - this system is in place to regulate the speed of leveling. If the speed of leveling isn't regulated by fatigue - the developers will regulate it by bigger TNL. Bigger TNL will hurt players like me.



____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#278 Aug 26 2010 at 6:02 PM Rating: Good
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1,050 posts
Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
ascorbic wrote:
Envy is very ugly, and this thread is painted with it.


It's not envy to want to play and enjoy a game I've been looking forward to for a long time. People who want to play all the time still can - they will just have to do it differently. And people like me who would like to play more but simply can't will still be able to have fun.

I see it as a win-win.

You guys see it as people like me trying to ruin your fun.

I see the way you guys want it as not acknowledging that a game dominated by just a few players isn't any fun for people that can't play as much.

I'm not casting aspersions on you and saying you are just envious that I have other things to do and want to keep the game all to yourself. So don't claim I want to "nerf" you because I am envious. It is silly and has nothing to do with the issue at hand.


*facepalm*

No, it's not envy to want to enjoy a game you've been looking forward to for a long time.

It IS envy when you want other people who have more time than you to play to be disadvantaged because you can't.

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 8:03pm by Miitan
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#279 Aug 26 2010 at 6:02 PM Rating: Default
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

The problem with that is not that you want to enjoy the game, but that you want other people to NOT enjoy the game. By saying you like the system, you are declaring that you want a system that will cause players to be unhappy, but so long as YOU are not that player, you don't care about who it affects.

That's what I'm getting out of it. "It doesn't affect me, so I am fine with it. Just so long as it affects everyone else"


But you want a system that made me unhappy. How is that different?


Not having surplus XP does not negatively impact anyone.
Having surplus XP negatively impacts many players and has no positive impact for anyone.

I know that you live in an area where you like to ride your bike; how would you feel if biking were banned and you were required to use a car to travel, because people who did not like bike riding didn't feel it fair that there are all these bikers around?

That's the problem. This is a system with NO benefit to anyone, only penalties.

Flip the system around and make it have bonus XP for playing less time, not XP penalties for playing more. Then you get your bonus and no one gets penalized.

Why does someone else have to suffer for you to enjoy the game?


I completely agree. I don't understand why is this difficult to understand.

Prior to knowing of Surplus existence, I highly doubt the ones lobbying for it felt like they weren't getting enough bonuses already to keep the game "casual friendly".

Some people are just arguing for the sake of arguing.
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#280Grand Master Scribe Olorinus, Posted: Aug 26 2010 at 6:03 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I know people don't like it but I have yet to see anyone explain exactly how it is a disadvantage.
#281 Aug 26 2010 at 6:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Miitan wrote:
Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
ascorbic wrote:
Envy is very ugly, and this thread is painted with it.


It's not envy to want to play and enjoy a game I've been looking forward to for a long time. People who want to play all the time still can - they will just have to do it differently. And people like me who would like to play more but simply can't will still be able to have fun.

I see it as a win-win.

You guys see it as people like me trying to ruin your fun.

I see the way you guys want it as not acknowledging that a game dominated by just a few players isn't any fun for people that can't play as much.

I'm not casting aspersions on you and saying you are just envious that I have other things to do and want to keep the game all to yourself. So don't claim I want to "nerf" you because I am envious. It is silly and has nothing to do with the issue at hand.


*facepalm*

No, it's not envy to want to enjoy a game you've been looking forward to for a long time.

It IS envy when you want other people who have more time than you to play than you to be disadvantaged because you can't.


But it is envy to want the one game your friend has when you have .999... games.
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#282 Aug 26 2010 at 6:03 PM Rating: Good
This thread is now about math!
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#283 Aug 26 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Decent
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2,081 posts
Kindja wrote:
As it is now this system only punishes not rewards or encourages. It completely destroys the social aspect by punishing those that have more time helping others as any help you give counts towards your "limit".

FFXI has this great community because people like to help each other, do things together without the fear of hitting a brick wall before the weekend comes around when they start their leveling grind.




That is an excellent point you raise. I do not think that SE is logically thinking about the social ramifications of this system. The feeling of being limited is going to have players seriously reexaime how they spend their time. Many of us are going to feel time pressured in a sense. I would appreciate full disclosure and would be happy if SE simply came out and said "Listen, we have no end game content to speak of, so you can level to your hearts content...but at the moment there won't be a **** thing to do at end game". I could at least appreciate the honesty and wait patiently for more content.
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#284 Aug 26 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
Miitan wrote:


It IS envy when you want other people who have more time than you to play than you to be disadvantaged because you can't.


I know people don't like it but I have yet to see anyone explain exactly how it is a disadvantage.


Because If I have 1 hour a day to play, and you have .999... hours, I don't want to have .999... surplus xp.
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Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#285 Aug 26 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
**
317 posts
Quote:
It's not envy to want to play and enjoy a game I've been looking forward to for a long time. People who want to play all the time still can - they will just have to do it differently. And people like me who would like to play more but simply can't will still be able to have fun.


Sure I can play it all the time, and just sit there and do nothing because I can't level the class I want to. I don't want to craft, I don't want to play every class in the game. I just want to play one main class and dab in others as I feel like it. There are plenty of opportunities for you to have fun like I have said before:

1. Other Casual Players
2. Other players who just started
3. Guild Leves
4. Quests
5. Solo play

It is not like you cannot play the game or get stuck anymore. Since this game is way more casual friendly without the XP cap there should be more casual players, therefore you can party with them.

Then you will mention that some players will fly to the end and ruin the economy for everyone else, well then level a crafter and make your own things. And if you claim that the high levels will camp mobs, what is stopping other players from camping them? **** if everyone is the same level all the mobs will be camped that drop that item needed for that level.

You don't even take into consideration the PS3 people, or even people who join later, what about them?? They will never catch up with the high levels and are going to have to deal with the economy of high level players if the cap is in place. The best part is that they are stuck slowly leveling to catch up with those high levels.
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Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#286 Aug 26 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Default
***
1,636 posts
Quote:
I hope that when people are saying they want a "more fair" system for hardcore gamers that they are not referring to the system that existed in FFXI. FFXI was just as cruel towards casual players as the surplus system is towards hardcore players. (Or perhaps even moreso, as even endgame events required tons of time, not just leveling.) If someone is going to argue that FFXIV is unfair "on principle" (as in "SE should not be able to dictate my progression") I would hope that they would also argue that FFXI was unfair "on principle" (as casual players could accomplish next to nothing, which is far more severe than just not being able to zerg one class to cap). If not, it's just hypocrisy. If you're referring to a nice in-between, carry on. (Though I'd love to see what that in-between is, as the currently suggested rested EXP would not cut it.)


See I don't find this true at all. I quit FFXI years ago, but I've tried to keep up with whats going on. So far as I know, every player/character was able to do whatever at their cap. I dont think anyone was locked out of activities because 100 players better than them were already doing them. What this sounds like is 'casual' players suggesting that 'hardcore' players were keeping them from enjoying the game. It took 'hardcore' players the same amount of time to get there as it would 'casual' players, if they weren't worried about trying to catch up, or trying to get into LS/guild's who are already there.
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#287 Aug 26 2010 at 6:05 PM Rating: Decent
-you still get skill ups in different classes (and you will have way more classes leveled than me!)
-you still can craft (even without skill points you can still make more money than me)
-you can still open more of the map and telepoints than me

And I get the benefit of leveling in 1 hour instead of having to spend 3 hours to get the same level...

____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#288 Aug 26 2010 at 6:05 PM Rating: Decent
**
317 posts
Quote:
I know people don't like it but I have yet to see anyone explain exactly how it is a disadvantage.


Because I have to level other jobs instead of the one I want.
____________________________
Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#289 Aug 26 2010 at 6:07 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
11,539 posts
deathly809 wrote:
Quote:
I know people don't like it but I have yet to see anyone explain exactly how it is a disadvantage.


Because I have to level other jobs instead of the one I want.


I know, it's like, I just wanna level .999... jobs and SE wants me to level 1 job.
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[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#290 Aug 26 2010 at 6:07 PM Rating: Decent
**
317 posts
Quote:
-you still get skill ups in different classes (and you will have way more classes leveled than me!)
-you still can craft (even without skill points you can still make more money than me)
-you can still open more of the map and telepoints than me

And I get the benefit of leveling in 1 hour instead of having to spend 3 hours to get the same level...


Well then why don't they just limit everyone to only playing 3 hours a day so that you don't get left behind? That is just crazy.
____________________________
Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#291 Aug 26 2010 at 6:08 PM Rating: Good
***
1,050 posts
Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
Miitan wrote:


It IS envy when you want other people who have more time than you to play than you to be disadvantaged because you can't.


I know people don't like it but I have yet to see anyone explain exactly how it is a disadvantage.


Because now you get to play how you want because surplus doesn't affect you, but they don't because it does.

Their getting to level 50 before you do does not put you at a disadvantage because 'they' are not 'everyone' however surplus is stopping them from getting xp which is a disadvantage.

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 8:08pm by Miitan
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#292 Aug 26 2010 at 6:08 PM Rating: Decent
deathly809 wrote:
Quote:
-you still get skill ups in different classes (and you will have way more classes leveled than me!)
-you still can craft (even without skill points you can still make more money than me)
-you can still open more of the map and telepoints than me

And I get the benefit of leveling in 1 hour instead of having to spend 3 hours to get the same level...


Well then why don't they just limit everyone to only playing 3 hours a day so that you don't get left behind? That is just crazy.


It isn't about being left behind. It is about being able to accomplish something in a reasonable time frame.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#293 Aug 26 2010 at 6:08 PM Rating: Excellent
*
249 posts

Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
deathly809 wrote:
Quote:
why don't we make a game entirely for the 10 percent of people that can and want to play 10 hours a day?

OH WAIT.

EVERY OTHER MMO IS THAT GAME.


Oh wait! Only 10% of the people are hardcores? Wow then why have to exp cap because 90% of the people is in your level range!!


Because it isn't much fun to play when 10 percent of the player base runs everything and you can't accomplish anything in the time you have to play. I'm sorry but I still remember farming for 20 hours to afford a basic black robe or whatever it was called on my blm for lvl 20 in FFXI - I can't afford to do that anymore just so that someone who can play all day every day gets to feel like they are "better" than me while overcharging me just because they can.

And if it is like that - the game will die - because like it or not - casual players are the majority of the market and if it isn't fun for them to play - SE won't be able to afford to update the game. So by all means - kill the game so that the minority can finish it in 1 month if that is what you want.

But don't whine when there isn't any updates and you are in endgame with nothing to do.


You seriously think that in this game the gear will be any easier to obtain?

1. All gear is crafted. You can't keep up with your DoH you're out.
2. You still need to farm that drop, but suddenly everyone is competing with you since all are at the same level. You need to keep up your DoW level or you're out!
3. You need materials to craft? You better level that DoL or you're out of luck since everyone will harvest/mine/fish.

All this system does is force you and everyone else to level everything. Do you as casual have the time for that?

This will create huge drama over mob spawns, harvesting nodes and crafting materials. You be effin' lucky to find materials cheap to level your craft because everyone will need those to level when they can't play whatever they would like to play.

The so proclaimed "Casual Player" suddenly finds himself not having enough time to keep up leveling all the classes becuase that suddenly takes 3 times or more time than he has.

Good luck with that buddy, you will be paying out of your *** for those items more so even than in FFXI. Crafters will charge you an arm and a leg because suddenly everyone needs these items at roughly the same time. I will be one of them and i will smile all the way to the bank.

This system does achieve nothing to make it easier for the casual. The Hardcore will still have the markets cornered becuase they can farm, level, harvest and craft while the poor casual sits there paying the price.

I am so looking forward to see this all go completely nuts and it will.

PS: And don't tell me that casuals suddenly have the time to level DoW, DoH and DoL. Then they would be hardcore.
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#294 Aug 26 2010 at 6:09 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
11,539 posts
I think SE should just boot you from the server after playing for 1 hour in a single month.

Wouldn't want people who have .999... hours to play to feel left out.
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[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#295 Aug 26 2010 at 6:09 PM Rating: Good
**
317 posts
Quote:
It isn't about being left behind. It is about being able to accomplish something in a reasonable time frame.


The exp cap does not make you level faster....
____________________________
Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#296 Aug 26 2010 at 6:10 PM Rating: Good
**
577 posts
Proof:

Define 0.999... as the sum of an infinite series:

0.999... = 9(1/10) + 9(1/10)^2 + 9(1/10)^3 + 9(1/10)^4 + 9(1/10)^5 + 9(1/10)^6 + ...

Apply the convergence theorem concerning geometric series: if |r| < 1 then ar + ar^2 + ar^3 + ... = ( a * r )/( 1 - r )

0.999 = (9(1/10))/(1-1/10) = 1
____________________________
"So farewell hope, and with hope farewell fear,
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good."
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#297 Aug 26 2010 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
I know, it's like, I just wanna level .999... jobs and SE wants me to level 1 job.

Well, maybe you should try leveling sqrt(-1) jobs instead. SE would be fine with that.
____________________________
IRC: Kagutsuchi

FFXI:
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Kagu Tsuchi
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#298 Aug 26 2010 at 6:11 PM Rating: Excellent
**
275 posts
Quote:
Proof:

Define 0.999... as the sum of an infinite series:

0.999... = 9(1/10) + 9(1/10)^2 + 9(1/10)^3 + 9(1/10)^4 + 9(1/10)^5 + 9(1/10)^6 + ...

Apply the convergence theorem concerning geometric series: if |r| < 1 then ar + ar^2 + ar^3 + ... = ( a * r )/( 1 - r )

0.999 = (9(1/10))/(1-1/10) = 1


My brain hurts. :(
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#299 Aug 26 2010 at 6:12 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
11,539 posts
avatarofpain wrote:
Quote:
I know, it's like, I just wanna level .999... jobs and SE wants me to level 1 job.

Well, maybe you should try leveling sqrt(-1) jobs instead. SE would be fine with that.


i tried that.

See what I did there?
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#300 Aug 26 2010 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
KindjalFerrer wrote:



You seriously think that in this game the gear will be any easier to obtain?

1. All gear is crafted. You can't keep up with your DoH you're out.
2. You still need to farm that drop, but suddenly everyone is competing with you since all are at the same level. You need to keep up your DoW level or you're out!
3. You need materials to craft? You better level that DoL or you're out of luck since everyone will harvest/mine/fish.

All this system does is force you and everyone else to level everything. Do you as casual have the time for that?

This will create huge drama over mob spawns, harvesting nodes and crafting materials. You be effin' lucky to find materials cheap to level your craft because everyone will need those to level when they can't play whatever they would like to play.

The so proclaimed "Casual Player" suddenly finds himself not having enough time to keep up leveling all the classes becuase that suddenly takes 3 times or more time than he has.

Good luck with that buddy, you will be paying out of your *** for those items more so even than in FFXI. Crafters will charge you an arm and a leg because suddenly everyone needs these items at roughly the same time. I will be one of them and i will smile all the way to the bank.

This system does achieve nothing to make it easier for the casual. The Hardcore will still have the markets cornered becuase they can farm, level, harvest and craft while the poor casual sits there paying the price.

I am so looking forward to see this all go completely nuts and it will.

PS: And don't tell me that casuals suddenly have the time to level DoW, DoH and DoL. Then they would be hardcore.


This is a good point.

However, since the hardcore folks will STILL level everything faster than me (since skill points are not really affected by fatigue as long as people switch over) I actually don't see this being the case.

____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#301 Aug 26 2010 at 6:13 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
11,539 posts
Kaelia88 wrote:
Quote:
Proof:

Define 0.999... as the sum of an infinite series:

0.999... = 9(1/10) + 9(1/10)^2 + 9(1/10)^3 + 9(1/10)^4 + 9(1/10)^5 + 9(1/10)^6 + ...

Apply the convergence theorem concerning geometric series: if |r| < 1 then ar + ar^2 + ar^3 + ... = ( a * r )/( 1 - r )

0.999 = (9(1/10))/(1-1/10) = 1


My brain hurts. :(


If that hurt your brain, try this:

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Catch_rate
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
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