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Ultimate Surplus Thread of Answers and Stuff!Follow

#1 Aug 26 2010 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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I am trying not to be biased, if you have any counter-arguments I will gladly listen and post them. Please let me know what you disagree with and your argument thank you very much. I am just trying to help out people who do not understand the system and the pro's and con's of it.

Links
http://www.ffxivorigin.com/content/should-you-really-worry-about-fatigue-rumors-ffxiv-113/
Funny Stuff and Good Info : Wine And Cheese

Since there seems to be a million different ideas about Surplus/Fatique and what it is. I have decided to make a thread with the current arguments/counter-arguments and an explanation of sorts.

Here is the link to the statement released to NA beta testers:

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=1282833877182681603&page=1

What is Surplus/Fatique?

Surplus/Fatigue is actually a dual system. It is composed of a part for class XP and physical XP.

Currently as it stands when playing a current class after a time limit, subject to change, your XP from the start to the end of that period averaged. This number is the average XP/HOUR. SE has a certain number they have decided this should stay below. At the point in which you go over this number you start getting a decline, over a period in time, in XP gained until a point you receive XP for leveling that class. This is currently class dependent, therefore changing class allows you to start the process over. At the end of one week from the start of leveling that class it is reset. While playing on ANY class you have an XP limit on the amount of physical XP you can gain over a week from starting.

They have stated that if you play the game without gaining class experience or physical experience you can start gaining class experience again. This is currently a fuzzy area and if anyone has any more concrete evidence on how this works lemme know.

Another hot topic at this point in time is what happens with the XP you don't get to keep? SE implies that they keep track of that and might use it for something. At this point we have no real evidence of what that might be used for.

Asyrian has a post over here talking about possible ideas with the surplus.

At this point they are working on tweaking the system to maximize some utility function.

Def: Utility Function - Some function where maximizing it brings the most gain to the system or individual.

Why?

The current list of possible reasons I have heard to far for having the current XP setup is this:

  • Limit RMT actions
  • Keep hardcore and casual players close in the levels
  • Reduce Grinding
  • Help the casual players
  • Endgame is not done

  • Limit RMT actions

    The Idea
    The system limits how fast a player can grow, therefore RMT cannot level rapidly and farm.

    Reasons that I believe it to be false
    Cheaters are going to cheat along with finding different ways to make money.

    Some Examples of How They will Make Money:

  • Multiple Characters
  • Exploits (cheating)
  • Camping rare drops
  • Grinding for hours for an item

  • Keep hardcore and casual players close in the levels

    The Idea
    Hardcore players will grind all day and night and leave the casuals in the dust creating a huge
    level gap between the two and the casuals will never get a party.

    Reasons that I believe it to be false
    This is only true if hardcores are a majority. However many people have been claiming that casuals are the majority.

    Let's look at the scenario if hardcores are a majority:

    Hardcores are a majority, they want to level as fast as fast as possible. However they cannot because
    of the XP limits. Therefore SE is punishing the majority of players who play the game in favor of a minority.

    Let's look at the scenario if casuals are a majority:

    Casuals are the majority, since they do not grind all day and night they never see the surplus, however the
    hardcore players who do play see the surplus cap. The casual players are never punished for how they play but
    the hardcore players are.

    Reduce Grinding

    The Idea
    The XP cap will reduce grinding.

    Reasons that I believe it to be false
    If you can't level one class you move to another, therefore the amount of time spent is the same.

    Help the casual players

    The Idea
    By reducing the time you can level one class, and therefore how far you can level, the casual players can keep up with hardcore players.

    Reasons that I believe it to be false
    Many people claim that FFXIV will be full of casual players. If this is so then the majority of people will all
    be the same level. Therefore the surplus system would only hurt hardcore players and not hindered casual play.
    However if the game is a majority of hardcore players, then you just harm the majority.

    In the first case, removing the cap does not harm either. In the second case it only harms the majority of players,
    which might quit (speculation) because they are not having fun.

    Member Ideas on this one

    Economy - Some members believe that this will help the economy

    Olorinus wrote:
    It is not just partying - it is also about people monopolizing the economy - and expectations of endgame linkshells etc. If people feel like they are looked down upon because they can't play 10 hours a day - that is no fun. If people have to grind for 10 hours to afford a robe they need because people powergrind to upper levels and control the economy (RMT/hardcore) they will quit. When casuals quit because of these issues, then yeah, parties will be a problem.


    My Thoughts:

    People will always try to monopolize the economy, either casual/hardcore player or RMT. If the RMT does not have 20 bots/slave labor farming for items and another 20 crafting non-stop them I would be surprised. If the hardcore player monopolized the market what is to stop someone else from selling it for less? (Update starts here) Here is another thing that can happen; hardcores must level a bunch of classes, casuals can only level a few, all the crafts are leveled by hardcores faster than casuals therefore hardcores rule the economy either way.


    Economy - Some people think it will destroy it

    FFXIVCore Memeber wrote:
    If this surplus system would continue you would limit the hardcore community in this game by "power" levelling 1 class. Now this is bad enough but think about this, what if the hardcore player cannot level his "favourite" class, he would level other classes. Let's take for example he makes a mage, and after being locked out of XP he will level a tailor and alchemy. Now normally he would have bought those items from someone who has specialized into this craft, but since the cap there is nothing else to do but to help himself and if every hardcore player makes his own gear/weapons/potion and what not this will hurt the economy badly.


    My Thoughts:

    I can actually see this happening, since it is almost forced to level as many classes as you want. Also as posted above in the help economy, hardcores can pretty much be guaranteed to level crafting because they can't level their main.

    Endgame is not done

    Idea
    The endgame elements are not done, therefore in order to complete them before users have reached it they have limited the amount of
    XP that can be gained per week. In other words, someone said it would take us X weeks to complete the end game stuff so they said
    "Well lets limit it to LEVEL_NEEDED_FOR_END_GAME / X"

    Why I believe this to be false
    I kinda don't. But the fact that they have been working on this for years makes me believe the story line is completed
    but the endgame might not be fully balanced/polished. So in effect it might be done, just not balanced or bug free.

    [b]Finally[b]

    If I missed anything please let me know and I will gladly update/add, even if I don't agree!

    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 3:02pm by deathly809 - Formatting, I suck

    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 3:05pm by deathly809 - Formatting, I suck hard

    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 3:11pm by deathly809 - Formatting, I suck real hard

    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 3:13pm by deathly809 - Updated! Reworded how RMT gain money

    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 3:19pm by deathly809 - Added information on what happens with XP not gained

    Anything after this is all updates and revisions, if it was important enough I will say what it was


    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 8:39pm by deathly809

    Edited, Aug 31st 2010 2:50pm by deathly809

    Edited, Aug 31st 2010 2:51pm by deathly809
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    #2 Aug 26 2010 at 1:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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    Quote:
    How it is wrong
    Cheaters are going to cheat, they are going to find different ways to make money.

    Some Examples of How:

    # Multiple Characters
    # Exploits
    # Camping rare drops
    # Grinding for hours for an item


    Uhm this is not a "cheat" nor is it something "cheaters" (you mean RMT'ers) only do. The "normal" gamer would also grind/camp a rare mob for an item or what not.

    Quote:

    Economy - Some members believe that this will help the economy

    I'm not really sure if I agree on this. Some member on FFXIV Core forum posted something among the lines of this:
    Quote:
    "If this surplus system would continue you would limit the hardcore community in this game by "power" levelling 1 class.
    Now this is bad enough but think about this, what if the hardcore player cannot level his "favourite" class, he would level other classes. Let's take for example he makes a mage, and after being locked out of XP he will level a tailor and alchemy. Now normally he would have bought those items from someone who has specialized into this craft, but since the cap there is nothing else to do but to help himself and if every hardcore player makes his own gear/weapons/potion and what not this will hurt the economy badly."


    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 3:17pm by Riathy
    #3 Aug 26 2010 at 1:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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    Quote:
    Uhm this is not a "cheat" nor is it something "cheaters" (you mean RMT'ers) only do. The "normal" gamer would also grind/camp a rare mob for an item or what not.


    I was meaning about making money, good point though. Can be confusing. Updating now! Thanks!


    Quote:
    I'm not really sure if I agree on this. Some member on FFXIV Core forum posted something among the lines of this:


    Thanks for the quote, I will add that. I am not going to say I am 100% correct, if you have an opinion I will be more than happy to place it in there! =)

    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 3:39pm by deathly809
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    #4 Aug 26 2010 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
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    I thought this was going to be just a summation of all the info gathered and a balanced view of opinions... instead this is a very biased post full of, yet again, more argumentative thoughts. This is just going to turn into another debate thread... something this forum doesn't need.

    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 2:46pm by Raionn
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    #5 Aug 26 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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    Riathy wrote:
    Quote:

    Economy - Some members believe that this will help the economy

    I'm not really sure if I agree on this. Some member on FFXIV Core forum posted something among the lines of this:
    Quote:
    "If this surplus system would continue you would limit the hardcore community in this game by "power" levelling 1 class.
    Now this is bad enough but think about this, what if the hardcore player cannot level his "favourite" class, he would level other classes. Let's take for example he makes a mage, and after being locked out of XP he will level a tailor and alchemy. Now normally he would have bought those items from someone who has specialized into this craft, but since the cap there is nothing else to do but to help himself and if every hardcore player makes his own gear/weapons/potion and what not this will hurt the economy badly."


    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 3:17pm by Riathy

    wow, i actually completely agree with your quote. i didnt think about that but it's 100% true.

    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 2:46pm by Raionn
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    #6 Aug 26 2010 at 1:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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    Quote:
    I thought this was going to be just a summation of all the info gathered and a balanced view of opinions... instead this is a very biased post full of, yet again, more argumentative thoughts. This is just going to tern into another debate thread... something this forum doesn't need.


    I am willing to put up your ideas if you wish, at this point I really only have my own to go with and a few others. If you can give me some arguments for any of those reasons please let me know. I have added some counter arguments already and my idea on them, if you can please give me some counter-couter-arguments I will gladly put them up.

    I will do my best to find some arguments for the system but there are a lot of repeats in posts, if you can link me any please let me have those links! Thanks =)
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    #7 Aug 26 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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    deathly809 wrote:
    Quote:
    I thought this was going to be just a summation of all the info gathered and a balanced view of opinions... instead this is a very biased post full of, yet again, more argumentative thoughts. This is just going to tern into another debate thread... something this forum doesn't need.


    I am willing to put up your ideas if you wish, at this point I really only have my own to go with and a few others. If you can give me some arguments for any of those reasons please let me know. I have added some counter arguments already and my idea on them, if you can please give me some counter-couter-arguments I will gladly put them up.

    I will do my best to find some arguments for the system but there are a lot of repeats in posts, if you can link me any please let me have those links! Thanks =)

    I apologize then. I guess I misunderstood your intentions. But as far as my opinion goes... I've checked out on the debate. So, don't think i am going to go into it. I'll leave that to others. I just want to wait and see how the system plays out. Then and only then I'll be able to decide if I want it to go or stay. If it proves to be an unbearable system then I'll simply quit. No harm done. FFXIV would then not be the game for me.
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    #8 Aug 26 2010 at 2:04 PM Rating: Good
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    Quote:
    I apologize then. I guess I misunderstood your intentions. But as far as my opinion goes... I've checked out on the debate. So, don't think i am going to go into it. I'll leave that to others. I just want to wait and see how the system plays out. Then and only then I'll be able to decide if I want it to go or stay. If it proves to be an unbearable system then I'll simply quit. No harm done. FFXIV would then not be the game for me.


    I understand completely where you are coming from. I just want to make sure everyone knows what it is about upfront without spending a lot of money on the game then hating it. As more information comes out I plan on updating the post to keep it correct. I personally have spent over half of my money in a new system, so this really affects me a lot. I am also sure other people have spent a good amount of money too.
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    #9 Aug 26 2010 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    The XP cap will reduce grinding.


    The XP cap will reduce the exp needed to gain levels on a class.

    Not reduce grinding per se. You can just be able to accomplish much more in the same time.

    Quote:
    Help the casual players

    The Idea
    By reducing the time it takes to level one class casual players can keep up with hardcore players.


    This is not how it helps them. What I said above is why it helps them.

    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 8:06pm by Hyanmen
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    #10 Aug 26 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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    Quote:
    Quote:
    "The XP cap will reduce grinding."


    The XP cap will reduce the exp needed to gain levels on a class.

    Not reduce grinding per se. You can just be able to accomplish much more in the same time.


    The XP cap has nothing to do with how much exp needed to level. SE could keep the cap the same and double or half the exp needed.

    Quote:

    "Quote:"
    Help the casual players

    The Idea
    By reducing the time it takes to level one class casual players can keep up with hardcore players.


    This is not how it helps them. What I said above is why it helps them.


    I think I butchered what I meant to say on that one haha. What I meant to say is that if everyone is casual then you don't need the XP cap. Because everyone will not be able to level to far from each other due to the limited amount of play time.

    I am going to re-word it. My brain memory has only a 1K buffer lol.
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    #11 Aug 26 2010 at 2:37 PM Rating: Decent
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    I'm still confused on why SE wants this system. The thought that keeps going through my head is like the disclaimer when you go to play Xi, to not forget about your RL. If this is the case idk if they're trying to force it now? And whole reason I'm thinking this is with the Surplus Points. Said something along the lines they didn't want to use them for anything cuz that would defeat the purpose of the system keeping people on or something like that?

    Anyway I posted a suggestion on how the Surplus Points could be spent in Feedback forums. Just a small idea, but I'm really wondering if they want people to not play? And is the $12.99 a month gonna be worth this?
    #12 Aug 26 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
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    Quote:
    Anyway I posted a suggestion on how the Surplus Points could be spent in Feedback forums. Just a small idea, but I'm really wondering if they want people to not play? And is the $12.99 a month gonna be worth this?


    Added a link to your post, might want to keep checking on it.
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    #13 Aug 26 2010 at 2:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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    The need to even have the debates we've had since learning this, threads like yours, petition threads on every FFXIV forum site, is beyond me.

    I mean, regardless of which side your on for this debate, it's just an unnecessary gaming element. Imagine if this element never came to light, everyone would still be happy, the casual players loved the game, as did hardcore people.

    Introducing this element of gameplay has sent communities through the roof. And for what? A system that has no need.

    Which brings to my next through I've had in my head. Somebody on the SE staff clearly laid out this requirement. Developers have coded for it, their internal QA groups have tested it - how the **** could their development team thought this was a good idea? I mean, this topic had to have had a debate on feasibility with the SE staff.

    Nonetheless, whether their idea is stupid or not, our voices have been heard. We have their attention.

    I'm just baffled at why all this was necessary; behind SE's closed doors, somebody is getting their *** chewed out over this slip-up.

    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 4:58pm by KnocturnalOne
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    #14 Aug 26 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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    Quote:
    The need to even have the debates we've had since learning this, threads like yours, petition threads on every FFXIV forum site, is beyond me.
    <rest of your stuff> ...



    Yeah I don't really know what their idea was when they came up with this. I hate that you have to have threads like mine too. I hate having to have some part of a game that people need explaining to them. The game should be simple to understand and not need 5 page threads on how it might work, but yet the explanation we get from SE leaves so many possibilities that almost every could be right.

    I really hope that this thread here helps people see where everyone is coming from on all their arguments on the pros/cons and also help them understand how it all works. I just hope I can get some more information from SE on this so I can make some more updates that help narrow it down to what the system will really be.
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    #15 Aug 26 2010 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
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    Could you imagine if they decided to add this Surplus System to Xi now, I'm sure a lot of angry people would just up and leave. Possibly kick in after maybe an hour (or less) in Abyssea.

    edit- Also link at top is broken.

    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 3:12pm by Asyrian
    #16 Aug 26 2010 at 3:13 PM Rating: Good
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    Quote:
    edit- Also link at top is broken.


    Fixed!
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    #17 Aug 26 2010 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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    I just learned about this today. I actually like it very much.

    I went back to playing WoW (I know I know) while waiting for FFXIV and they kind of have this system only for weekly raids and daily dungeons. I usually only raid tue, wed and thr and then I'm free on the weekend to play other games. I kinda hated ffxi in that I couldn't play any other games. I felt that if I was gaming but not playing ffxi I could be playing ffxi instead and not get left behind (i always was left behind though).

    I guess we'll see.
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    #18 Aug 26 2010 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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    Quote:
    I just learned about this today. I actually like it very much.

    I went back to playing WoW (I know I know) while waiting for FFXIV and they kind of have this system only for weekly raids and daily dungeons. I usually only raid tue, wed and thr and then I'm free on the weekend to play other games. I kinda hated ffxi in that I couldn't play any other games. I felt that if I was gaming but not playing ffxi I could be playing ffxi instead and not get left behind (i always was left behind though).

    I guess we'll see.


    I feel you, in XI I got left behind by people too, but eventually I made it to the end. However I would never force someone to play how I wanted just to make me happy. I feel that is what this system is doing, forcing people to play a certain way.

    I know that without it you will be left behind by the hardcores, but in reality have you been left behind? I think that you would be in the same level with or without the cap. I think what you really want is people to play with, however this makes the game less fun for them.


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    #19 Aug 26 2010 at 3:46 PM Rating: Decent
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    ashikenshin wrote:
    I just learned about this today. I actually like it very much.

    I went back to playing WoW (I know I know) while waiting for FFXIV and they kind of have this system only for weekly raids and daily dungeons. I usually only raid tue, wed and thr and then I'm free on the weekend to play other games. I kinda hated ffxi in that I couldn't play any other games. I felt that if I was gaming but not playing ffxi I could be playing ffxi instead and not get left behind (i always was left behind though).

    I guess we'll see.


    While you have a slightly valid point, where it may help close the gap between casual & hardcore players, how would this help someone who starts playing 3 months after release? What about the PS3 players? I guess if they want to do that, they should just pause the game for PC players for 6 months then too?

    Would you still like it then?

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    #20 Aug 26 2010 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
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    Just to add: I think another "Why" is that SE wants to make people versatile and experience the different classes. In turn, force the community rather than have the community pick for themselves.

    ----

    The thing that kinda irks me in a lot of posts (no offense to the OP) however is this black/white definition of casual vs. hardcore.

    I'm mostly casual during the week, but on the weekends I may be a little hardcore. So the surplus may not affect me during the week, but I may have to spend my weekend (of hardcore grinding time) leveling something I'd rather not.

    Yes, I would then (probably) change my gaming habits to level something extraneous during the week, and my main on the weekends. But then this is the main complaint from most people: "If I'm paying for this game I want to play/level the way I want to."

    Even if "surplus" points are gathered in a tank/pool somewhere and could be used for another class or skills or something, I'm still having to change the way I play.

    I would still be considered a "casual" player (or at the very least a moderate player) and I can now see this system 'hurting' me.

    Ironically more casual players will be hurt, because the hardcore player will always have time to switch to a different class whereas casual players, who may be hardcore sometimes will have to make limiting choices; do I play my main this week or not...or the ultimate choice of not playing at all. I don't think my position is that unique.

    Here's my final opinion. In the beginning we heard about the idea, it was confusing and we didn't like it. And after we found out what it was, it was still confusing and we still didn't like it. So...
    #21 Aug 26 2010 at 3:55 PM Rating: Good
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    Quote:
    Just to add: I think another "Why" is that SE wants to make people versatile and experience the different classes. In turn, force the community rather than have the community pick for themselves.


    Can you elaborate some more please?
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    #22 Aug 26 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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    deathly809 wrote:
    Quote:
    Just to add: I think another "Why" is that SE wants to make people versatile and experience the different classes. In turn, force the community rather than have the community pick for themselves.


    Can you elaborate some more please?



    Yes, for example:

    In FFXI you had preferred class combinations: NIN/WAR, PLD/WAR, THF/NIN, DRG/WAR, DRG/SAM etc...These came about over time through trial and elimination by the community to best suit the facilitation of leveling i.e. the most efficient classes to gain the most exp.

    In FFXIV when you hit that surplus wall you must choose another class to level.

    Now I'm going to rephrase/retool what I stated in my first post.

    This new system thereby doesn't choose (as I falsely assumed earlier) the 'optimal' classes, but would rather expedite the choices by the community.

    Meaning, optimal job combinations will be found sooner rather than later.

    Now this is just a theory and obviously I don't know the impact if at all this would have on the game if it were true.
    #23 Aug 26 2010 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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    Quote:
    Yes, for example:

    In FFXI you had preferred class combinations: NIN/WAR, PLD/WAR, THF/NIN, DRG/WAR, DRG/SAM etc...These came about over time through trial and elimination by the community to best suit the facilitation of leveling i.e. the most efficient classes to gain the most exp.

    In FFXIV when you hit that surplus wall you must choose another class to level.

    Now I'm going to rephrase/retool what I stated in my first post.

    This new system thereby doesn't choose (as I falsely assumed earlier) the 'optimal' classes, but would rather expedite the choices by the community.

    Meaning, optimal job combinations will be found sooner rather than later.

    Now this is just a theory and obviously I don't know the impact if at all this would have on the game if it were true.


    In other words, SE is forcing users to find optimal playing strategies?
    ____________________________
    Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

    Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
    "That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
    Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
    #24 Aug 26 2010 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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    317 posts
    Has anyone found any more information talking about surplus? If so let me know thanks everyone for the feedback.
    ____________________________
    Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

    Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
    "That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
    Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
    #25 Aug 26 2010 at 7:22 PM Rating: Good
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    3,178 posts
    I'm a bit exhausted of the desire to discuss the EXP system. I think we need to see the changes implemented in Open Beta before getting out our horse-beating sticks again.

    Just posting to mention that you can delete the forum's *edit* text while editing so that only the most recent one remains.

    Edited, Aug 26th 2010 9:26pm by RufuSwho
    #26 Aug 26 2010 at 7:29 PM Rating: Good
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    317 posts
    Quote:
    I'm a bit exhausted of the desire to discuss the EXP system. I think we need to see the changes implemented in Open Beta before getting out our horse-beating sticks again.


    Whatever changes they make int he open beta will be put in here, along with any information from an interview that is new. Hopefully when everything goes live this will be really helpful for new players who need help trying to figure out why they can't level.
    ____________________________
    Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

    Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
    "That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
    Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
    #27 Aug 27 2010 at 2:59 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    32 posts
    iunno im still completely against this. Maybe turn this around and give the classes your not playing bonus xp when they play them finally that way you can play your main class yet still have the want to try other classes etc. Iunno just a random thought in my head but i do have a side question? Just because you don't gain skill points doesn't mean you can't make money or keep crafting things or anything right so i see the double bladed sword effect here but im still not happy. If im wrong please say so just my own opinions anyways.
    #28 Aug 27 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Good
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    201 posts
    I appreciate you attempting to make a centralized thread for the Surplus issue. =)
    ____________________________
    FFXI - Shinoh - BRD66/WHM41/RDM41/NIN37/COR30/THF25 - Fairy
    WoW - Lv.80 Priest/Shaman/Paladin - Boulderfist/Malorne
    FFXIV - Can't afford it now. =(
    #29 Aug 27 2010 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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    317 posts
    Quote:
    Maybe turn this around and give the classes your not playing bonus xp when they play them finally that way you can play your main class yet still have the want to try other classes etc.


    The problem that they are going to have is balancing. Let's say for instance you get bonus XP in your other classes from the surplus, if that is the case then you can grind a single class to max level by just playing all your other classes deep into surplus.

    Of course then there is the possibility that if you do that then the minute you apply your bonus XP you are surplused out on that since you are obviously over the XP/HOUR cap.

    Quote:
    Just because you don't gain skill points doesn't mean you can't make money or keep crafting things or anything right so i see the double bladed sword effect here but im still not happy. If im wrong please say so just my own opinions anyways.


    That is correct, all it does is not allow you to have gains.

    Quote:
    I appreciate you attempting to make a centralized thread for the Surplus issue. =)


    Thank you, I am trying my best to find more information but I can't seem to find any.
    ____________________________
    Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

    Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
    "That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
    Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
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