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The point allocation System (Stats)Follow

#52 Aug 29 2010 at 6:43 AM Rating: Decent
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First of all, You can NOT change your class while engaged. No switching while in combat.

Saying, "Oh, but in the beta they did little to nothing", is not an argument.
If they indeed do nothign then why even have the 30 min timer on the button?
Just because in the Beta they had little "visible" effect does not mean they will in final.

Why put in conversion traits (5 INT to 5 STR) into the game if they do little to nothing?
Why give DoL traits that raise your DEX or PIE if they are so meaningless?

Why put in all this effort into a stats system that does nothing?

I think that in the final these stats will be just as important as any other stat you get from armor. You seriously think that they would give us armor that has DEX+1 for level 20 if it only really means something when you get 100 DEX?

Get real, this is SE we talking about here.
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#53 Aug 29 2010 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
From what I've read, stats play a very small role in altering your damage/accuracy. That's what I had noticed myself as well. At least, in the beta... which again begs the question: Why would they not release more core content if they want us to test it?

My personal experience is that I forgot to assign my stats for the first several levels. I think it was on marauder or something. Anyway, I took all of the points I had stocked up and put ALL of them into STR (went from 16 or whatever the base stat is to 40+). My damage was nearly unchanged.


Which then raises the question, why even have stats if they don't have much of an effect.



I'm starting to think their design approach for this game is "Oooh, let's add this! Oooh, let's add that!" with no thought at all towards how those systems interact with one another.
#54 Aug 29 2010 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

I'm starting to think their design approach for this game is "Oooh, let's add this! Oooh, let's add that!" with no thought at all towards how those systems interact with one another.


There are times where I think that too, especially in consideration of the dynamic between the EXP restriction (which favors the switching of classes) and the point allocation restriction (which favors the playing of only one type of class).

In a broad sense, though, I can see what they were intending... In FFXI, things were very black and white. If you were Job X, you had Job X abilities and Job X stats and you had no choice in the matter (with the exception of "Sub Job," where you could choose ONE other Job to impact your character at any given time). The "power" your character had (abilities/stats) existed at point A and point B, but you seemingly had nothing in between, so if "traveling" from point A to point B is possible, it must be instantaneous and complete. Your "power" didn't even seem centered on your character himself, rather it seemed centered on the hat he put on before leaving the house (figuratively speaking, of course). He could be a Thief with incredible evasion, but that same character as a Black Mage just sits there and takes the hits. It makes it seem like your character is getting his power from something outside himself, rather than his inherent skill or knowledge.

In FFXIV, things are a little more grey. You can be Class X, but have Class X, Y, and Z abilities, and allocate stats that are beneficial to Class X, Y, and Z. The powers your character has exist on a continuum. There isn't just point A and point B, but a line connecting the two as well. They wanted to make you feel like you were molding your character (sliding him/her along that line between A and B). So, now it seems like your character is drawing his skill from within himself because you can carry some of what you've learned with you as you travel from A to B. The systems interact with each other in a sense that they both reflect the concept of a proficiency/potential continuum. The inconvenience comes with the fact that the concept of a continuum involves gradual (not instantaneous) change. The systems don't interact in a way that is particularly convenient, but they don't seem entirely arbitrary either.

I can't claim to be right, but it's a different way of looking at it.



Edited, Aug 29th 2010 3:30pm by Kaelia88
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#55 Oct 07 2010 at 9:13 PM Rating: Default
3 posts
you shouldnt be having a problem with surplus xp unless you have no job or dont go to school. either that or you dont do anyting but level hence not contributing anything to the other pple who play by mabey crafting or gathering or something. which SE clearly dosnt want you to do. and this comes from a guy with a full time job from 7am-430pm and plays roughly from 5pm-1030pm every weekday and sometimes longer during the weekend. and thats also in place to help prevent the problem ffxi had with the "leveling waves".
#56 Oct 07 2010 at 10:08 PM Rating: Decent
3 posts
fail... you cant think of a justafiable reason for it? theres plenty of reasons for it, like maby SE dosnt want you have one charcter that can make a quick change to be the best at everything. or maby they are actually giving you a reason to use an extra character slot for something other than a freakin mule. or maby as stated elsewhere they wanted you to be able to make a minor adjustment cause of a minor mistake on your part or maby even a little fine-tuning. if for no other reason the biggest one in my opinion is becasue i believe they really want you to actually make another character instead of just making one and being able to do everything. thats one thing in ffxi that i never understood why they gave me extra character slots. after playing for 5 years i realized that there was no way in **** i was gonna make another character and do all that crap over again from scratch. i never needed a mule but then again i didnt level 7 diff jobs at once i leveld them one at a time selling/buying/crafting my gear and supplies as needed. so if not for a mule then what???? dont get me wrong ive met some people that before the lvl 80+ cap increase had the game beat in every sence of the word, so they decided to make new characters... diehard.. thats all i got to say about that, but other than that i saw no reason to purchase a second character. however if i wanted to do in this one like i did in ffxi i would be forced to spend the minescule amount of 3 extra dollars a month to make one more character ($6 and 2 if i wanted to make a character whos only purpose was tanking and $9 and 3 if your the perfectionist type). but either way im not gonna waste 3 hours trying to switch my stats when i can spend 3min changing my character. and unlike ffxi if i make a new character in ffxiv as of now i dont have to spend hours of leveling and unlocking quests and missions and camping nm's and doing bcnms to get a character even remotly close to my main stat and gear wise. all i gotta do is create new... start leveling... dont even need to look for a party...... cant find a good reason?.... lol.. theres your reason. and ok.. say you dont want to make another character and you want to claim say the dicipline of magic as your main that leaves you with 2 classes that you dont really need to redistribute for. so think about what youd be doing for the comunity by not switching between 7 diff classes all at once. first of all it makes you more dependable. if i know you only play these 2 jobs i can pretty much assume that unless your and idiot that you can play those 2 jobs better than the guy leveling the 7 diff jobs. i can also assume that if your on you will be on one of those jobs or maby even be able to switch to whichever i might need, hence making you a reliable job source for a particular class as apposed to "oh i wonder if he has this leveld" or "i wonder if he has been leveling this class lately". its like crafting in ffxi for instence.. no dobt for most crafts it wasnt that easy to get one to 100+. well say you were 100 plus when the new synergy came out and you needed someone 100+ which would be easier.. knowing someone already who was a 100+ of the craft you needed or standing in whitegate shouting for god knows how long waiting for someone to respond. or even if not for synergy, say you needed a goldsmither 100+ to make you your Koeing or kaiser gear and you had already leveld leather craft to 100+, which is easeir knowing someone whos already goldsmithing 100+ or shouting for it until someone finaly answers you and then charges you out the yang for the synth. granted no matter how dependable the person is may still not be online but thats life if you cant wait a couple days for something dependable thats just a personal problem. but anyway back to the main point flexability is nice. but turns out.... so is money... you want flexability and to save money.... and SE wants to give you flexability and also wants to make money. cant blame them from where im standin, and as much as i like the game, both ffxiv and ffxi, ill put up with some of thiere Final fantasy tactics as long as the game is still enjoyable.
#57 Oct 07 2010 at 10:23 PM Rating: Good
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^^ Nobody is going to read all that ****.
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Melaahna Valiera
#58 Oct 07 2010 at 10:43 PM Rating: Decent
3 posts
its not a time sink and it dosnt slow you down if your not trying to make every stat 100% perfect becasue of this new distribution system you cant at the final level if you distributed "evenly" all your points between peity mind and int for a con and a thtr giving them we'll say a +/- 30 points either way for each stat oposing of course. its not gonna make that big of a diff one way or another. for example (numbers are just an example im aware they are not to scale)

Conj1: Thtr Conj2
Int : 100 Int : 70 Int : 50
Mind : 80 Mind : 80 Mind : 70
Peity: 20 Peity: 50 Peity: 80

ok looking at it this way you can see a lot of things (first of all i used thtr and conj just becasue they pretty much share the same stats in my opinion and i know if i changed beetween either i wouldnt be redoing my stats). so basicly as you can see sayin this is proportainetly the same as in game the two characters would have the same amount of points for simplicty purposes i gave both pple 200 total. as you can see what it comes down to is a matter of how you decide to distribute them. even though these 2 have the same main discipline i would take the thtr becasue hes would have more mp and more magic acc than the conj1 ya he may not hit as hard but i at least know hed hit. and he does more dmg and would cure better as apposed to conj2 even though he might miss a little more. but thats just me the point is this is just stat based this is not inluding gear which you can equip to compensate. with as much magc acc gear as i have scene i might actually want the conj1 and there is a pretty decent amount of int jewlery so i might want the conj2 depending on how hes geared. you see these base sats dont matter cause when all is said and done yall still spent the same amount of points (granted this is saying they arnt fools and tried to put all into one or two stats) and it will eventually still comedown to who is geared better for there stats. i explained the whole changing stat thing elswhere so you can read that if you want to know why trying to change all your stats on one guy is a terrible idea unless they release an npc to do it for you. but even then SE would only do it if enough pple whined about it, which would mean it is just a convience thing it dosnt necessarily make the game better, only slightly more convienient if anything it would make it to easy in my opinion, itd be just like wow.
#59 Oct 07 2010 at 11:14 PM Rating: Good
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Again, an undecipherable wall of text. Learn how to periodically hit the enter key to separate relevant, related concepts or just give up.
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Melaahna Valiera
#60 Oct 07 2010 at 11:17 PM Rating: Good
33 posts
akirussan wrote:
SE obviously wants players to be able to switch from Pugilist to Miner on the fly, but does not want players to be able to switch from Conjurer to Gladiator in the middle of long battles/Guildleves/Factions etc.

I doubt SE anticipated all the gear swapping that eventually developed in FFXI, but they seem intent on preventing job swapping in FFXIV.

In that sense the point allocation system is a complete success, not a fail.


I call ********* One of the biggest reasons I decided to buy the collectors edition and go at this game like a hardcore nerd is because of the story they set out when describing the armory system. Start as a Gladiator, go to botanist, switch to conjurer, switch to fishing all in one sitting. I don't remember if those are the exact classes but this is what they told us we were to be able to do. They literally did NOTHING correct with this game except make it with fantastic graphics....that cost me a lot of $ to be able to run :).
#61 Oct 08 2010 at 12:11 AM Rating: Decent
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1,004 posts
i had a suggestion in the feedback forum that basically gave this idea:

only allow full stat changes inside a town, and keep the current system for out in the field.

that way, you have the ability to properly job change in a timely fashion, without overpowering people with multiple maxed classes. this would also benefit crafters since stats aparently effect crafting.

in case anyone was wondering where i got this from, it came from guild wars. that's the system it had in place, and it worked very well for the time i played. the only difference is, you accumulated points to allow yourself to do this. it wasn't alot of points so you could do it fairly often. i don't want to give SE the idea of making a point system out if this, they tend to make point systems...generally not time efficient.
#62 Oct 11 2010 at 5:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Timorith wrote:
^^ Nobody is going to read all that sh*t.


lmao
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