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Conjurer or Thaumaturge?Follow

#1 Aug 29 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Good
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Hey folks,

For those of you who played in Beta, I could use some advice on which class you would prefer to play and why. I'm having a hard time deciding which to main, and while I like the idea of elemental magic and raise, the DoT spells from Thaum are attractive as well.

To be honest I'll likely be a Conjaturge or a Thaumurer anyways, but I'm interested in hearing the opinion of the community!
#2 Aug 29 2010 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
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THM gets a raise type spell as well if that sways you
#3 Aug 29 2010 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
THM gets a raise type spell as well if that sways you


Good to know. Thaum looks a little cooler as well. Conjurers have that stupid hat. Hard to sneak up on mobs when your hat brim is down around your nose....

Do Thaums have the ability to heal others at all? Or does one need to sub Con to do so?
#4 Aug 29 2010 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Monsieur samosamo wrote:
THM gets a raise type spell as well if that sways you


Do you know which level you get it at?
#5 Aug 29 2010 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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Kennedus wrote:
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THM gets a raise type spell as well if that sways you


Good to know. Thaum looks a little cooler as well. Conjurers have that stupid hat. Hard to sneak up on mobs when your hat brim is down around your nose....

Do Thaums have the ability to heal others at all? Or does one need to sub Con to do so?

Thaumaturge gets a healing spell called Sacrifice at rank 4. It does cost you 54 HP to use it, so you can't cast it if you're below 55 HP. It's also limited to you & your party. Sacrifice also has the added effect of Regen.

Conjurer gets Cure at rank 4, and it's a radial AoE. By that, I mean you can be standing in the center of a group of people, and it will work out to a certain distance. The same goes for Conjurer's Stoneskin, Shock Spikes, Protect, and Shell. They may have more, but I didn't play either job past rank 10 myself.
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#6 Aug 29 2010 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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im planning on lvling both at the same time , 15hours(each) = 30hours per week i think that good enough lol

i just hope conjurer and tham use the same stats so i wont have to be switching stats around
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#7 Aug 29 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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Ggrab wrote:
im planning on lvling both at the same time , 15hours(each) = 30hours per week i think that good enough lol

i just hope conjurer and tham use the same stats so i wont have to be switching stats around


Yeah i can't see either using str or dex, so as long as you stick to int for potency, piety for accuracy, and mind/vit for defences as you see fit you should be good
#8 Aug 29 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Ggrab wrote:
im planning on lvling both at the same time , 15hours(each) = 30hours per week i think that good enough lol

i just hope conjurer and tham use the same stats so i wont have to be switching stats around


As far as I can tell right now they use the same basic stats.

Edited, Aug 29th 2010 3:22pm by UncleRuckusForLife
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#9 Aug 29 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
im planning on lvling both at the same time , 15hours(each) = 30hours per week i think that good enough lol

i just hope conjurer and tham use the same stats so i wont have to be switching stats around


This makes sense to me, I'll likely do that same and try to get some Alchemy in there at the same time. My biggest concern from a Conjurer standpoint is that they seem to burn through mana fairly quickly. Large drains in spells MP for little damage. I'm sure this will get better as you level, but a mage with no mana = ouchy.

Edited, Aug 29th 2010 1:24pm by Kennedus
#10 Aug 29 2010 at 1:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah the more I look at the 2 I see it making sense to level both, which is basically what they wanted with this game...and then people can make dedicated characters in their own ways. Combine everything about healing onto one character(even from some of the DoW), you could start going with perhaps a holy mage that heals & has dia/banish and another could make the dark mage with more attack spells plus scourge/bio. You could take a set of enfeebles and for your attack maybe only the tier of thunder spells & shock spikes, etc. to make a thunder mage. Or you could just play the class as it comes to you...I see lots of cool possibilities though...that's where this leveling system starts to get fun...no more "Well this is my class so this is what I must do"

Edited, Aug 29th 2010 3:36pm by TwistedOwl
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#11 Aug 29 2010 at 1:36 PM Rating: Good
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Kennedus wrote:
Hey folks,

For those of you who played in Beta, I could use some advice on which class you would prefer to play and why. I'm having a hard time deciding which to main, and while I like the idea of elemental magic and raise, the DoT spells from Thaum are attractive as well. To be honest I'll likely be a Conjaturge or a Thaumurer anyways, but I'm interested in hearing the opinion of the community!


Don't forget to visit the Conjurer & Thaumaturge forums. There are some pretty good threads in them. Most likely you'll play both to some degree.
#12 Aug 29 2010 at 1:38 PM Rating: Decent
Kennedus wrote:
Quote:
im planning on lvling both at the same time , 15hours(each) = 30hours per week i think that good enough lol

i just hope conjurer and tham use the same stats so i wont have to be switching stats around


This makes sense to me, I'll likely do that same and try to get some Alchemy in there at the same time. My biggest concern from a Conjurer standpoint is that they seem to burn through mana fairly quickly. Large drains in spells MP for little damage. I'm sure this will get better as you level, but a mage with no mana = ouchy.



Since all the first tier nukes are only 10 mp and can be AOE... I didn't have this problem. Plus if you want to actually skill up you are going to be using spirit/phantom dart an awful lot.

You're going to want to be a thaumacon rather than a straight up thaumaturge or conjurer anyway, from what peeps have said leveling con to start is easier - and having stoneskin/shockspikes etc makes leveling thaumaturge much easier after.

Personally I'm going conjurer to level 6 (cure at 4, stoneskin at 6), pug to level 6 (second wind), conjurer to level 8 (shockspikes), THEN I'll work on thaumaturge

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#13 Aug 29 2010 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Both get DOT spells. Conjurer gets elemental ones that reduce elemental resistance and Thaumaturge gets umbral and astral ones(Dia/Bio) that lower defense or attack. The big difference between the two classes seems to be that aside from their damage/dot/healing/mp management spells one specializes in buffing PCs and the other in debuffing the enemy. Thaumaturge gets slow/gravity/bind/paralyze/poison/silence/absorb spells and Conjurer gets stoneskin/shock spikes/protect/shell. Conjurer does seem to get their second tier of spells(ex:fire II rank 24) earlier than Thaumaturge gets theirs(ex:Banish II rank:over 30 apparently) so they'll most likely be the best nukers. I'm also undecided what to main but I'd imagine leveling both is going to be a requirement . Really would like to see the potency of debuffs before deciding.
#14 Aug 29 2010 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
You're going to want to be a thaumacon rather than a straight up thaumaturge or conjurer anyway, from what peeps have said leveling con to start is easier - and having stoneskin/shockspikes etc makes leveling thaumaturge much easier after.


But what I found is that those Conj buffs don't last as long when casted by a Thaumaturgist. Also I don't believe Stoneskin absorbs as much and Shockspikes probably doesn't keep the mob stunned as long.
#15 Aug 29 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
Personally I'm going conjurer to level 6 (cure at 4, stoneskin at 6), pug to level 6 (second wind), conjurer to level 8 (shockspikes), THEN I'll work on thaumaturge

I think this is a great idea, especially since that TP goes to waste until you get either Conjurer or Thaumaturge to rank 10 anyway. Conjurer gets Radiance, Thaumaturge gets Damnation, both of which can restore MP if they hit.

Personally, I'd change up the order a little bit. Take Pugilist to 6 for Second Wind first, that way you have something to heal yourself with before you get Cure. You'll have to sacrifice a slot that would go for one of your elemental spells to do it, though.
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#16 Aug 29 2010 at 2:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jeddik wrote:
Ggrab wrote:
im planning on lvling both at the same time , 15hours(each) = 30hours per week i think that good enough lol

i just hope conjurer and tham use the same stats so i wont have to be switching stats around


Yeah i can't see either using str or dex, so as long as you stick to int for potency, piety for accuracy, and mind/vit for defences as you see fit you should be good


Don't be too sure...PD and SD are both physical ranged attacks so STR and DEX may yet play there part - Certainly hitting the target seemed to be more efficient in Beta when I raised that stat compared to Alpha when I went entirely with INT, MND and PIE.

Runnerup wrote:
Both get DOT spells. Conjurer gets elemental ones that reduce elemental resistance and Thaumaturge gets umbral and astral ones(Dia/Bio) that lower defense or attack. The big difference between the two classes seems to be that aside from their damage/dot/healing/mp management spells one specializes in buffing PCs and the other in debuffing the enemy. Thaumaturge gets slow/gravity/bind/paralyze/poison/silence/absorb spells and Conjurer gets stoneskin/shock spikes/protect/shell. Conjurer does seem to get their second tier of spells(ex:fire II rank 24) earlier than Thaumaturge gets theirs(ex:Banish II rank:over 30 apparently)


Not correct as far as Beta testing goes:

Both Banish II and Scourge II you get at 24 - my testing didnt find much difference in dmg output for the Tier II's though but this may have been a glitch in Beta.

We have Poison as well as Dia and Bio for DoT.

Your comment about the specialization as far as I know in my experience is quite true - though the Thaumacon can happyily buff party members but not as effectively as a Conathaum! :)

rubina wrote:
Don't forget to visit the Conjurer & Thaumaturge forums. There are some pretty good threads in them. Most likely you'll play both to some degree.


Shameless Bump on this one :)

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Edited, Aug 29th 2010 9:00pm by EdyNOTB
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#17 Aug 29 2010 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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is there a list somewhere that has all the skills and at what rank you get them at?
would be really helpful in planning builds.
#18 Aug 29 2010 at 3:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kennedus wrote:


Good to know. Thaum looks a little cooler as well. Conjurers have that stupid hat. Hard to sneak up on mobs when your hat brim is down around your nose....

Do Thaums have the ability to heal others at all? Or does one need to sub Con to do so?


That 'hat' is DoM specific and can be worn by any DoM class (may even be any class actually)
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#19 Aug 29 2010 at 3:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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nirtsbro wrote:
is there a list somewhere that has all the skills and at what rank you get them at?
would be really helpful in planning builds.


0.o


Please read two posts up or one sig down ^^

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#20 Aug 29 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Good
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Looks like THM gets resurrect at level 38
#21 Aug 29 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
rubina wrote:
Quote:
You're going to want to be a thaumacon rather than a straight up thaumaturge or conjurer anyway, from what peeps have said leveling con to start is easier - and having stoneskin/shockspikes etc makes leveling thaumaturge much easier after.


But what I found is that those Conj buffs don't last as long when casted by a Thaumaturgist. Also I don't believe Stoneskin absorbs as much and Shockspikes probably doesn't keep the mob stunned as long.


You're right, they are not as strong but they are still better than having no buff at all.
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#22 Aug 29 2010 at 3:11 PM Rating: Decent
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took a look at ur guide but i was thinking more along the lines of a... hm.. how to put it...
a list where all the rank skills for all jobs are listed.
sorta like

rank 1:
alch -
arch -
arm -
etc

if there isn't mb ill start one..
#23 Aug 29 2010 at 4:19 PM Rating: Good
nirtsbro wrote:
took a look at ur guide but i was thinking more along the lines of a... hm.. how to put it...
a list where all the rank skills for all jobs are listed.
sorta like

rank 1:
alch -
arch -
arm -
etc

if there isn't mb ill start one..


http://www.ffxivstrawhats.com/jobs/Thaumaturge/
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#24 Aug 29 2010 at 4:25 PM Rating: Decent
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conjurer are DD/buffer and thaumaturge are more focus on healing/enfeebing?

ill prob be conjurer main with thaumaturge abilitys or whatever help out the most in the battle endgame



and as far as MP goes SE wanted the us to make the game harder with the mana magament ( aka no manaburning everything left and right )

from the looks of things SE created FFXIV with the idea of fixxing all that negative in FFXI
from RMT to manaburn


i hope we dont see no 24hour window HNM this time around lol

Edited, Aug 29th 2010 6:30pm by Ggrab
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#25 Aug 29 2010 at 5:59 PM Rating: Decent
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That 'hat' is DoM specific and can be worn by any DoM class (may even be any class actually)


Hey good to know! So does that mean I go with a hood and lose the hat for both as well? *please oh please oh please*
#26 Aug 29 2010 at 11:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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nirtsbro wrote:
took a look at ur guide but i was thinking more along the lines of a... hm.. how to put it...
a list where all the rank skills for all jobs are listed.
sorta like

rank 1:
alch -
arch -
arm -
etc

if there isn't mb ill start one..


Ahha sorry didnt read that properly - thought as the thread was THM/CON you were specifically talking about those classes. Yeah a comparison rank by rank with what you get would be very good and although there are plenty of people putting out info for individual classes (including some threads with all classes) I havent seen anything that has put it all together rank by rank.

Sorry for the misunderstanding :)
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#27 Aug 29 2010 at 11:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kennedus wrote:
Quote:
That 'hat' is DoM specific and can be worn by any DoM class (may even be any class actually)


Hey good to know! So does that mean I go with a hood and lose the hat for both as well? *please oh please oh please*


yes - the cotton cowl I was wearing in Beta got rid of the hat :)

But when I bought my eyepatch +2 it got rid of that too (
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#28 Aug 30 2010 at 12:44 AM Rating: Good
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EdyNOTB wrote:
But when I bought my eyepatch +2 it got rid of that too

I MUST know how to make those! Saw some Tar...Lalafell wearing one and it was the coolest-looking thing!

...Anybody?
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#29 Aug 30 2010 at 4:41 AM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
rubina wrote:
Quote:
You're going to want to be a thaumacon rather than a straight up thaumaturge or conjurer anyway, from what peeps have said leveling con to start is easier - and having stoneskin/shockspikes etc makes leveling thaumaturge much easier after.


But what I found is that those Conj buffs don't last as long when casted by a Thaumaturgist. Also I don't believe Stoneskin absorbs as much and Shockspikes probably doesn't keep the mob stunned as long.


You're right, they are not as strong but they are still better than having no buff at all.


Even if it's not full effect that extra cure, nuke or voke or whatever could always come in handy, at least you have more options...

There may be some ways to improve that though. Being unable to sleep & searching around the internetz I started looking at some of the purchasable traits for each class with 'guild marks'. Each DoW/DoM class has something that gives "+10 Archer Action Affinity, max 100", "+10 Conjurer Action Affinity, max 100", etc. Sounds a little like some type of meriting system that maybe won't be available much until later in game(a lot cooler if you can start using it earlier though), but it sounds like being a conjurer, you could add that thaumaturge trait for example and make thm stuff work better.

Edited, Aug 30th 2010 6:46am by TwistedOwl
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#30 Aug 30 2010 at 5:31 AM Rating: Good
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uomaru wrote:
EdyNOTB wrote:
But when I bought my eyepatch +2 it got rid of that too

I MUST know how to make those! Saw some Tar...Lalafell wearing one and it was the coolest-looking thing!

...Anybody?


What I want is the straw hat with the flower on it. I must become the ultimate trap.
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#31 Aug 30 2010 at 6:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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uomaru wrote:
EdyNOTB wrote:
But when I bought my eyepatch +2 it got rid of that too

I MUST know how to make those! Saw some Tar...Lalafell wearing one and it was the coolest-looking thing!

...Anybody?


Not sure how you make them - but I paid 200k for it :)
Screenshot
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#32 Aug 30 2010 at 6:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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TwistedOwl wrote:
There may be some ways to improve that though. Being unable to sleep & searching around the internetz I started looking at some of the purchasable traits for each class with 'guild marks'. Each DoW/DoM class has something that gives "+10 Archer Action Affinity, max 100", "+10 Conjurer Action Affinity, max 100", etc. Sounds a little like some type of meriting system that maybe won't be available much until later in game(a lot cooler if you can start using it earlier though), but it sounds like being a conjurer, you could add that thaumaturge trait for example and make thm stuff work better.


I'm afraid that as far as I know all the Guildmark purchasable traits are for class only.
Screenshot


Edited, Aug 30th 2010 1:00pm by EdyNOTB
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#33 Aug 30 2010 at 7:08 AM Rating: Good
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EdyNOTB wrote:
TwistedOwl wrote:
There may be some ways to improve that though. Being unable to sleep & searching around the internetz I started looking at some of the purchasable traits for each class with 'guild marks'. Each DoW/DoM class has something that gives "+10 Archer Action Affinity, max 100", "+10 Conjurer Action Affinity, max 100", etc. Sounds a little like some type of meriting system that maybe won't be available much until later in game(a lot cooler if you can start using it earlier though), but it sounds like being a conjurer, you could add that thaumaturge trait for example and make thm stuff work better.


I'm afraid that as far as I know all the Guildmark purchasable traits are for class only.

Edited, Aug 30th 2010 1:00pm by EdyNOTB


The ones like in the pic that are weapon-specific attacks probably are...I think I've seen some of the others saying "DoW""DoM", etc. I hope that's the case...there's some that would be perfect on other classes

Also ran into a thread on another site saying the eyepatch is a special drop from skeleton mobs...couldn't find much else to confirm that though...

Edited, Aug 30th 2010 9:10am by TwistedOwl
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#34 Aug 30 2010 at 9:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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TwistedOwl wrote:
The ones like in the pic that are weapon-specific attacks probably are...I think I've seen some of the others saying "DoW""DoM", etc. I hope that's the case...there's some that would be perfect on other classes


Ah they could very possibly be that - I only bought the two physical attacks and never got far enough to buy the others so I dont have screenies of them yet to check.

TwistedOwl wrote:
Also ran into a thread on another site saying the eyepatch is a special drop from skeleton mobs...couldn't find much else to confirm that though...


Its also very possible that patch was a drop. I saw a guy walking around with a very nice piece of body armour (sorry forgot its name), when we asked him where he got it from he said it was from a skele drop.
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#35 Aug 30 2010 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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EdyNOTB wrote:
Not sure how you make them - but I paid 200k for it :)
Screenshot

Holy &%$@! Guess I won't be able to lay my hands on it for a loooooong time. :(

On topic(?): I must say I'm glad to see the mage classes be able to solo as well as the DoW classes now, unlike back in the days of FFXI.
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#36 Aug 30 2010 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
uomaru wrote:
EdyNOTB wrote:
Not sure how you make them - but I paid 200k for it :)
Screenshot

Holy &%$@! Guess I won't be able to lay my hands on it for a loooooong time. :(

On topic(?): I must say I'm glad to see the mage classes be able to solo as well as the DoW classes now, unlike back in the days of FFXI.


If you start crafting early you can overprice things like everyone else and get your patch... lol
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#37 Sep 01 2010 at 1:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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uomaru wrote:
EdyNOTB wrote:
Not sure how you make them - but I paid 200k for it :)

Holy &%$@! Guess I won't be able to lay my hands on it for a loooooong time. :(

On topic(?): I must say I'm glad to see the mage classes be able to solo as well as the DoW classes now, unlike back in the days of FFXI.


I must say that my wealth (if you can call it that) was only gained from doing Guildleves every two days and sharing as many Leves as I could netted me quite a lot too. I think in total I probably had over 350k and there were friends that had even more by the time we finished (They were crafters though :)

Edited, Sep 1st 2010 7:05pm by EdyNOTB
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