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Access Restriction On Beta Test Site (8/30/10)Follow

#1 Aug 30 2010 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Along with the start of open beta test on Tuesday, Aug. 31, 2010 at 19:00 (PDT), threads under "Beta Test" and "Discussion" on FINAL FANTASY XIV Beta Test Site will become unavailable to those of you who have registered the registration code on your own to participate in FINAL FANTASY XIV Beta Test.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your understanding.


So I guess SE doesn't want prospective buyers to read about the flaws and complaints of other players? I really wonder why they would only allow partial access.

Any thoughts?
#2 Aug 30 2010 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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Its hard to say, they m ay not want their forums clogged with "semi new users" complaints either. Maybe they feel like they have heard enough peoples opinion.
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#3 Aug 30 2010 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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Its hard to say, they m ay not want their forums clogged with "semi new users" complaints either.


Well, from what I can tell, users registered with a key cannot post on the forums anyways. That's why this is quite odd for SE do limit viewing of certain areas on the forum.
#4 Aug 30 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
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Baron von KanzenZenaku wrote:
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Its hard to say, they m ay not want their forums clogged with "semi new users" complaints either.


Well, from what I can tell, users registered with a key cannot post on the forums anyways. That's why this is quite odd for SE do limit viewing of certain areas on the forum.


Frankly this is the strangest beta test I've ever been a part of.

No interaction with the developers or community managers (because those don't exist)
No ability to report bugs or provide feedback from anyone who joined via a beta key
Mismanaged communication between regions when SE finally DOES say something

My guess with THIS particular genius move is that they really don't want people joining in open beta to be aware of the issues from the previous beta and alpha phases.. Not only are they not allowed to provide feedback, they can't even judge for themselves if anything has been improved because they can't read about the baseline.

So... despite the usual mantra of "it's a beta, not a demo" this is, in fact, a demo.. not a beta. Hope it's a good one
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#5 Aug 30 2010 at 4:12 PM Rating: Decent
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So I can still log onto the beta website and go on the forums, when will that access end?
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#6 Aug 30 2010 at 4:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Probably just means that they can't post in those forums. I can't think of any (good)reason why they wouldn't let them view it at least.

My guess is the "Open Beta" is going to be testing out some of the things in the new areas as well as the load on the servers in prep for release.
#7 Aug 30 2010 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Baron von KanzenZenaku wrote:
Quote:
Its hard to say, they m ay not want their forums clogged with "semi new users" complaints either.


Well, from what I can tell, users registered with a key cannot post on the forums anyways. That's why this is quite odd for SE do limit viewing of certain areas on the forum.


Frankly this is the strangest beta test I've ever been a part of.

No interaction with the developers or community managers (because those don't exist)
No ability to report bugs or provide feedback from anyone who joined via a beta key
Mismanaged communication between regions when SE finally DOES say something

My guess with THIS particular genius move is that they really don't want people joining in open beta to be aware of the issues from the previous beta and alpha phases.. Not only are they not allowed to provide feedback, they can't even judge for themselves if anything has been improved because they can't read about the baseline.

So... despite the usual mantra of "it's a beta, not a demo" this is, in fact, a demo.. not a beta. Hope it's a good one


Realistically you can't say if things have improved based on what you read anyway, especially if its your first time experiencing it for yourself, which is why pre Phase 3 people will still have access as they're the ones who will know the game a lot better than new people. It's like how people who read reviews on a game that looked good to them but a review said it was bad so they changed their mind without even at least renting the game for themselves to come to their own conclusion. Look at how non-testers were coming to the incorrect conclusions of even the guildleve system because it's "well I read suchandsuch" but had no personal experience themselves.

So don't count out the Alpha - Phase 2 testers when coming to the "this is a demo" conclusion. A demo isn't for testing, betas are still test builds of a game and by open/public betas you generally get the last bit of testing done with a lot more users and to come to the infamous "What will be in the post day launch patch?" and with the dropping of NDA a lot more open-ness to generate hype/advertisement etc.
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#8 Aug 30 2010 at 4:30 PM Rating: Good
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Baron von KanzenZenaku wrote:
Quote:
Its hard to say, they m ay not want their forums clogged with "semi new users" complaints either.


Well, from what I can tell, users registered with a key cannot post on the forums anyways. That's why this is quite odd for SE do limit viewing of certain areas on the forum.


Frankly this is the strangest beta test I've ever been a part of.

No interaction with the developers or community managers (because those don't exist)
No ability to report bugs or provide feedback from anyone who joined via a beta key
Mismanaged communication between regions when SE finally DOES say something

My guess with THIS particular genius move is that they really don't want people joining in open beta to be aware of the issues from the previous beta and alpha phases.. Not only are they not allowed to provide feedback, they can't even judge for themselves if anything has been improved because they can't read about the baseline.

So... despite the usual mantra of "it's a beta, not a demo" this is, in fact, a demo.. not a beta. Hope it's a good one


Realistically you can't say if things have improved based on what you read anyway, especially if its your first time experiencing it for yourself, which is why pre Phase 3 people will still have access as they're the ones who will know the game a lot better than new people. It's like how people who read reviews on a game that looked good to them but a review said it was bad so they changed their mind without even at least renting the game for themselves to come to their own conclusion. Look at how non-testers were coming to the incorrect conclusions of even the guildleve system because it's "well I read suchandsuch" but had no personal experience themselves.

So don't count out the Alpha - Phase 2 testers when coming to the "this is a demo" conclusion. A demo isn't for testing, betas are still test builds of a game and by open/public betas you generally get the last bit of testing done with a lot more users and to come to the infamous "What will be in the post day launch patch?" and with the dropping of NDA a lot more open-ness to generate hype/advertisement etc.


Actually being able to provide feedback based on NO previous knowledge should be invaluable. It would give the developers the perspective of someone who isn't comparing the game to what it was six months prior, because realistically.. it doesn't matter what the game looked like back then, it matters what it looks like now.

I realize that alpha-B2 testers are still able to report bugs and post feedback respectively, however my contention is that everybody should be able to do that, otherwise it isn't a beta and the only reason to keep adding people into it from P3 onward is to generate hype (which btw, failed spectacularly on the whole surplus fiasco). Some minor argument can be made for server load testing as well, but there's no reason in the entire world not to just let those people provide feedback on the game and report bugs. Adding more eyes into the product can only improve the number of people able to find something wrong with it. ****, I've found bugs.. but I can't report them, and I have absolutely no way of knowing whether or not they've been reported previously because I'm apparently unworthy of fulfilling my responsibility as a beta tester
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#9 Aug 30 2010 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Frankly this is the strangest beta test I've ever been a part of.

No interaction with the developers or community managers (because those don't exist)
No ability to report bugs or provide feedback from anyone who joined via a beta key
Mismanaged communication between regions when SE finally DOES say something

My guess with THIS particular genius move is that they really don't want people joining in open beta to be aware of the issues from the previous beta and alpha phases.. Not only are they not allowed to provide feedback, they can't even judge for themselves if anything has been improved because they can't read about the baseline.

So... despite the usual mantra of "it's a beta, not a demo" this is, in fact, a demo.. not a beta. Hope it's a good one


I agree with everything said here. They're definitely reinforcing the idea of a demo, not a beta.

I have a feeling that they mostly want to use this Open Beta experience as a "preview" for people just joining in. It feels that they might have decided they've gotten all the feedback they need from the existing playerbase that can post/report bugs. They probably also don't want things getting out of hands on the forums and other, new Open Beta invites, to see the turmoil.

Those beta forums get craaazy. Smiley: oyvey
#10 Aug 30 2010 at 5:22 PM Rating: Good
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IMHO I think SE is only concerned with getting feedback from JP players. It's probably easier for them to analyze it, without having to translate. Plus they may assume that whatever problems we experience, the JP players will experience them as well.
#11 Aug 30 2010 at 5:23 PM Rating: Good
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supergp17 wrote:
IMHO I think SE is only concerned with getting feedback from JP players. It's probably easier for them to analyze it, without having to translate. Plus they may assume that whatever problems we experience, the JP players will experience them as well.


You may be right, but the problem with that is that not only are JP players using a different client than NA/EU players, but they will have different concerns as well (for example, lots of NA players complained about the mouse issues but the JP players saw no problem with it)
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#12 Aug 30 2010 at 5:28 PM Rating: Decent
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You may be right, but the problem with that is that not only are JP players using a different client than NA/EU players, but they will have different concerns as well (for example, lots of NA players complained about the mouse issues but the JP players saw no problem with it)


Yeah that's a good point. I can only imagine the chaos right now they're having trying to get this ready to release simultaneously around the globe.
#13 Aug 30 2010 at 9:22 PM Rating: Good
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Beta phase 3 and open beta is for stress testing the servers basically. Do you know how many more people were allowed into phase 3 and possibly for open beta? They want to be able to sort through the forums...
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#14 Aug 30 2010 at 9:26 PM Rating: Decent
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jtully wrote:
Beta phase 3 and open beta is for stress testing the servers basically. Do you know how many more people were allowed into phase 3 and possibly for open beta? They want to be able to sort through the forums...


I seriously doubt anyone will know that info.
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#15 Aug 30 2010 at 9:28 PM Rating: Good
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Could you imagine how many "OMG TEH SURPLUS IS BAD!!" posts there would be. They are just trying to control the chaos.
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#16 Aug 30 2010 at 9:32 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
supergp17 wrote:
IMHO I think SE is only concerned with getting feedback from JP players. It's probably easier for them to analyze it, without having to translate. Plus they may assume that whatever problems we experience, the JP players will experience them as well.


You may be right, but the problem with that is that not only are JP players using a different client than NA/EU players, but they will have different concerns as well (for example, lots of NA players complained about the mouse issues but the JP players saw no problem with it)
To be honest, the mouse thing is the only issue that japan and NA didn't share an opinion on for the most part. In everything i have read , everybody agrees on what the major problems are with the client.
With that being said, i doubt that any new beta testers will have anything to post that hasn't already been posted. My take, is that SE is comfortable with the feedback they already have, and don't see the need for more posts with the same opinions in them.
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#17 Aug 30 2010 at 10:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sploder wrote:
Could you imagine how many "OMG TEH SURPLUS IS BAD!!" posts there would be. They are just trying to control the chaos.


This is what community managers are for.

Someone whose actual job it is to sift through the forums and compile posts on what issues players are having so they can be presented to the development team in some sort of organized fashion.

Do I expect someone on the dev team to sit there and read 752 pages of "ZOMG surplus is teh badzorz?" no, no I don't.

Do I expect someone to sit there and compile up the issues people are having:
"Out of 32767 beta testers who've posted: 79% of them say surplus is a big problem, 45% say hardware mouse is a big problem, 2% say the lack of jumping is a big problem"

Yes, yes I do. And the more people there are posting feedback on things like this, the more accurate the statistics become.

Also bugs... why on Earth wouldn't you want as many people telling you how to break the game as humanly possible? Why is this bad?
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#18 Aug 30 2010 at 10:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
supergp17 wrote:
IMHO I think SE is only concerned with getting feedback from JP players. It's probably easier for them to analyze it, without having to translate. Plus they may assume that whatever problems we experience, the JP players will experience them as well.


You may be right, but the problem with that is that not only are JP players using a different client than NA/EU players, but they will have different concerns as well (for example, lots of NA players complained about the mouse issues but the JP players saw no problem with it)


to derail this thread....
i dont understand what the "no Hardware mouse" issue was, i have no problem with the mouse control

Edited, Aug 31st 2010 12:24am by Mostaru
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#19 Aug 30 2010 at 10:28 PM Rating: Good
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I think I may have actually gotten rated down for making a joke about jumping.

How hilarious
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#20 Aug 30 2010 at 10:30 PM Rating: Decent
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If i'm not mistaken, using Hardware Mouse, your cursor/pointer isn't affected much if at all by your fps. Whereas Software Mouse is in a way linked to it. My personal experience seems to agree with that, Software Mouse can be sluggish and imprecise, such as you'd never see a successful First Person Shooter with Software Mouse. It would kill it.
#21 Aug 30 2010 at 10:32 PM Rating: Good
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ispanolfw wrote:
If i'm not mistaken, using Hardware Mouse, your cursor/pointer isn't affected much if at all by your fps. Whereas Software Mouse is in a way linked to it. My personal experience seems to agree with that, Software Mouse can be sluggish and imprecise, such as you'd never see a successful First Person Shooter with Software Mouse. It would kill it.


Right, hardware mouse just means that there's nothing funny going on with the mouse pointer, you've just slapped a skin on it and said good game.

A software mouse is rendered by the game software in response to the user moving the mouse around, since it has to be processed by the software it's subjected to the same limitations as the rest of that process, so if your computer doesn't run the game at completely perfect realtime max power #1 levels, your on-screen mouse pointer is going to move much slower than you're actually moving the mouse around.
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#22 Aug 30 2010 at 11:41 PM Rating: Decent
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So why stick with software mouse at all, if (what it seems like so far) has absolutely no benefits over hardware mouse? I've heard that one of the reasons is that it's because it's beta and most betas use software mouse, but for some reason, I don't feel that's the real reason SE is keeping software mouse.
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#23 Aug 30 2010 at 11:42 PM Rating: Decent
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ugh and using a mouse makes things so much quicker and easier.
i dont get why SE made crafting classes into actual mini game job classes, but didnt make it mouse friendly, from what i understand crafting requires you to go through menu after menu after menu just to do one craft. a hardware mouse aswell as drag and drop features would fractionize the time and frustration it takes imo.
a hardware mouse and drag and drop features also make going through the auction house a thousand times less tedious too.... oh wait >.>

i really dont understand how the JP could be soooo positive about the lack of such useful and easily implimented features

Quote:
I've heard that one of the reasons is that it's because it's beta and most betas use software mouse, but for some reason, I don't feel that's the real reason SE is keeping software mouse.

SE already stated they dont have any plans on ever making a hardware mouse, though they also said its a possibility for the future. So no it has nothing to do with beta.

Edited, Aug 31st 2010 1:44am by pixelpop
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#24 Aug 30 2010 at 11:49 PM Rating: Decent
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so what exactly are the benefits of software mouse of hardware mouse? All I hear are the negative aspects of software mouse. There has to be something about software mouse that is allowing the Japanese players to be so positive about it.
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#25 Aug 30 2010 at 11:49 PM Rating: Good
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pixelpop wrote:

i really dont understand how the JP could be soooo positive about the lack of such useful and easily implimented features


I think it just never occurred to them to ask for it.

It's a bit fragmented, but what I understand is that Japanese players don't spend a whole lot of time playing PC games. They prefer console games (and so, a controller). I suppose they play PC games the same way? So if they're using a controller by default, it probably never entered their minds that good mouse controls would be needed.

And no this isn't a stab at the Japanese, merely a cultural observation, and as it's a culture SE shares, it's the one they most identify with.

Now the question becomes, why was it put into FFXI... because it was. Why not just do that again? Frankly, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other about having a hardware mouse, it'd be nice but unless I can customize the way the camera behaves, the current mouse control scheme is unusable even if the mouse were faster.
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#26 Aug 30 2010 at 11:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Now the question becomes, why was it put into FFXI... because it was. Why not just do that again? Frankly, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other about having a hardware mouse, it'd be nice but unless I can customize the way the camera behaves, the current mouse control scheme is unusable even if the mouse were faster.



What's wrong with the current mouse control scheme? Other than it being software mouse, it felt alright to use for me.
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#27 Aug 30 2010 at 11:59 PM Rating: Good
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Coh wrote:
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Now the question becomes, why was it put into FFXI... because it was. Why not just do that again? Frankly, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other about having a hardware mouse, it'd be nice but unless I can customize the way the camera behaves, the current mouse control scheme is unusable even if the mouse were faster.



What's wrong with the current mouse control scheme? Other than it being software mouse, it felt alright to use for me.


Well I couldn't do much with it beyond targeting when the NumPad0 key failed me, but I noticed that my movement and camera controls were REALLY odd when I tried to control them with the mouse. It might have just been because the mouse control was so delayed, or because the sensitivity was really low and not adjustable. It just felt terrible to use for anything beyond targeting.
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#28 Aug 31 2010 at 12:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Well I couldn't do much with it beyond targeting when the NumPad0 key failed me, but I noticed that my movement and camera controls were REALLY odd when I tried to control them with the mouse. It might have just been because the mouse control was so delayed, or because the sensitivity was really low and not adjustable. It just felt terrible to use for anything beyond targeting.


That's really strange. For me, targeting characters was the most difficult to adjust to for me because of the lag, but the camera controls were fine because it controlled like most mmos I've played (camera is controlled with right mouse button). And is it absolutely guaranteed that the current mouse system will go live?
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#29 Aug 31 2010 at 12:04 AM Rating: Good
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Coh wrote:
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Well I couldn't do much with it beyond targeting when the NumPad0 key failed me, but I noticed that my movement and camera controls were REALLY odd when I tried to control them with the mouse. It might have just been because the mouse control was so delayed, or because the sensitivity was really low and not adjustable. It just felt terrible to use for anything beyond targeting.


That's really strange. For me, targeting characters was the most difficult to adjust to for me because of the lag, but the camera controls were fine because it controlled like most mmos I've played (camera is controlled with right mouse button). And is it absolutely guaranteed that the current mouse system will go live?


Nothing's guaranteed, but SE's said they have no plans to do anything about it right now.
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#30 Aug 31 2010 at 12:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Nothing's guaranteed, but SE's said they have no plans to do anything about it right now.


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#31 Aug 31 2010 at 12:09 AM Rating: Good
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Another thing I have in common with the JPs...games were meant to be played on controllers = P

Even that had issues in the last phase though, had to switch to the mouse for any drop-down menus because the controller wouldn't do it. There were some other things I was used to in XI that didn't work as well on the controller in XIV too. Would be nice(and really should be automatic) for them to make all the control methods work at their best abilities...
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#32 Aug 31 2010 at 12:09 AM Rating: Good
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Coh wrote:
so what exactly are the benefits of software mouse of hardware mouse? All I hear are the negative aspects of software mouse. There has to be something about software mouse that is allowing the Japanese players to be so positive about it.
The simply don't use it.

I think the biggest thing they are trying to avoid is re-implementation of the UI for the ps3, I know the console support the use of a mouse but I bet really few ppl actually make use of it.

Ken
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#33 Aug 31 2010 at 12:13 AM Rating: Decent
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my big question is they talk about beta keys from the other phases getting in does this mean the open beta is only open to all those that got keys. if so seams like its still closed beta but more open areas not a open beta.
#34 Aug 31 2010 at 12:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Everyone has to read so much into everything, just play the beta and enjoy it - at this point it is a demo, all your job is at open beta is to stress test the server...i'm sure SE knows what they want more than anyone here does...geeez we can't go a few days without someone complaining about something, lets just enjoy the **** game. Most people who got into beta phase 3 via beta keys from fan site weren't able to post on beta forums, same thing here, none of us are meant to give any feedback unless we were part of phase 1/ phase 2 or whatever and had that option to begin with. Just smile, smell the roses, and think about how awesome its gonna be when we start in some place OTHER than Limsa for a change! XD
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#35 Aug 31 2010 at 12:21 AM Rating: Good
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SolidMack wrote:
Everyone has to read so much into everything, just play the beta and enjoy it - at this point it is a demo, all your job is at open beta is to stress test the server...i'm sure SE knows what they want more than anyone here does...geeez we can't go a few days without someone complaining about something, lets just enjoy the **** game. Most people who got into beta phase 3 via beta keys from fan site weren't able to post on beta forums, same thing here, none of us are meant to give any feedback unless we were part of phase 1/ phase 2 or whatever and had that option to begin with. Just smile, smell the roses, and think about how awesome its gonna be when we start in some place OTHER than Limsa for a change! XD


I apologize for not wanting the bugs I find to make it into the final product.

Please forgive me
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#36 Aug 31 2010 at 12:25 AM Rating: Good
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SolidMack wrote:
Just smile, smell the roses, and think about how awesome its gonna be when we start in some place OTHER than Limsa for a change! XD


That's definitely somethin' to look forward to, think I'll be trying Gridania for this...Ul'dah for the retail...
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#37 Aug 31 2010 at 2:31 AM Rating: Default
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I apologize for not wanting the bugs I find to make it into the final product.

Please forgive me


Forgiven. Its just a game, relax man, and this topic was not about that - we haven't been reporting bugs since beta 3 (new players that is) so its nothing new...plus i'm sure you can judge whether things are functioning properly or not by actually playing open beta - I'm sure you don't have to compare and contrast notes with someone who complained about a bug back in phase 2 or 3...just enjoy the game, no one is listening to your complaints anymore anyhow.

Quote:
That's definitely somethin' to look forward to, think I'll be trying Gridania for this...Ul'dah for the retail...


I think i'm gonna go with Ul'Dah and stick with Ul'Dah for retail because i want atleast one other *wow!!!* moment when i reach Gridania sometime down the road.

Edited, Aug 31st 2010 4:32am by SolidMack
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