Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
This Forum is Read Only

Your first MMOFollow

#1 Sep 01 2010 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
**
550 posts
What was you first MMO?

For me, it was either http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow_of_Yserbius or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights_(AOL_game)

I remember my mom being ****** at the AOL bill.

I remember in Neverwinter Nights when my guild took me as a lowbie level to like the endgame area and we killed something and I gained like a million levels. I also remember you could PVP based on your alignment, so if you were EVIL you could find a good player and just gank him right there and vice versa... you had to travel in groups for safety.

I remember in Yserbius you could cheat using a glitch in the game to equip weapons and armor that were unequipable.

Exploits were great.

Edited, Sep 1st 2010 1:48pm by Oenos
____________________________
XI - Draiden 75DRG/75COR (Sylph, Retired 08)


#2 Sep 01 2010 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
**
603 posts
Ultima Online, got WAyyyy too involved in that.
#3 Sep 01 2010 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
320 posts
Ragnarok Online.
____________________________


#4 Sep 01 2010 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
****
6,898 posts
FFXI was my first actually... started at PS2 release and played for 6 years. I do not regret it in the slightest. =D
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#5 Sep 01 2010 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
6 posts
My first MMO ever was Ragnarok Online. A very beautiful game which paved the way for many "modern" MMOs in my opinion..
#6 Sep 01 2010 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
I played MUDs... but FFXI was my first real MMO

Edited, Sep 1st 2010 10:34am by Olorinus
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#7 Sep 01 2010 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
135 posts
Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
I played MUDs... but FFXI was my first real MMO


What's a MUD?

As for me, World of Warcraft.
#8 Sep 01 2010 at 11:38 AM Rating: Default
*
147 posts
my first was legend of mir
a 2d mmo with no quests no story but a great community and it was strangely addictive
#9 Sep 01 2010 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
Sage
**
550 posts
MUD's are text based
____________________________
XI - Draiden 75DRG/75COR (Sylph, Retired 08)


#10 Sep 01 2010 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
291 posts
Asheron's Call was my first MMO.
#11 Sep 01 2010 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
*
208 posts
I guess it was Gemstone III back when it was on AOL! My first non-text based MMO was FFXI.

But Monopoly was my first PvP experience.
#12 Sep 01 2010 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
Riathy wrote:
Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
I played MUDs... but FFXI was my first real MMO


What's a MUD?

As for me, World of Warcraft.


MUD stands for "Multi-user Dungeon" - they were/are text based multiplayer internet games... if you think it is hard to find your way through yhoator jungle when you can actually SEE it... imagine trying to find your way when you have to read the description of each location and then type

/walk east

lol


Edited, Sep 1st 2010 10:44am by Olorinus
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#13 Sep 01 2010 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
*
112 posts
FFXI was my first as well. I played it for 6 years on the PC, PS2, and 360, at which time I had 4 jobs at 75. The game did have it's ups and downs, and omg yes it's share of whiners. It was hard in the beginning, and you really had no idea where you were suppossed to go or what you were suppossed to do, but those were the times I remember most.
____________________________
FFXI (BST 75, RDM 75, BLM 75, BRD 75) (along with many subs and cherished friends)

And on the 7th day God created Miqo'te.
On the 8th day God saw that they were sad and lonely, God then threw down a Squarenix staff member and thus was born the male Miqo'te.
#14 Sep 01 2010 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
**
423 posts
If MUSHs/MUDs/MOOs count, then probably LambdaMOO, circa 1998. If not that, then D2 (LOL). I guess FFXI was my first real MMO.

I'm glad to say that FFXIV will be my next, and I hope to stay for years. Eve isn't cutting it anymore.
____________________________
Esthalos of Fairy
Hume, rank 10, San d'Oria
BRD75, PLD67, WHM42, WAR37, NIN37, SMN20

Armant wrote:
ok let no say this again once...

U have 20 dmg, u shoot 30 dmg, but if ur not RNG, u want HALF, with no time reload, so u get 10. but, BUT, u want no DRG since ur shooting, so its 30 dmg or 10?
#15 Sep 01 2010 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
*
67 posts
FFXI on PS2. I've always wanted to try an MMO but every PC I've had has been pretty crappy. When I heard XI was on the PS2 I was like "Finally!". Mom was a little worried cause of that Everquest suicide.
#16 Sep 01 2010 at 11:51 AM Rating: Good
*
96 posts
My first was FFXI, i didn't really have any interests in MMO's but a friend convinced me to try FFXI. Played it for 5 years, and have tryed other MMO's since then :)
#17 Sep 01 2010 at 11:54 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
**
351 posts
I, for one, never got into WoW. (I'm a part of the 0.1% that haven't.)

My first MMO was a free-to-play 2D side-scrolling MMO, Maplestory. I got into around the time of its release (back when there were only 2 servers and no Cash Shop), with some friends from Neopets (yes, Neopets -- I have no shame D:). It was pretty much what one would expect it to be: a grindaholic's chibi-styled game with a community full of whiny 13-16 year olds. But I was a kid, myself, so it didn't bother me very much. The MMO itself, however, was surprisingly fun. Maybe it's because I'd never experienced a game like that before, but I really enjoyed the character development, the high-scale worlds, the music, the art, the teamwork involved, etc. Having never played an MMO before, I'd never experienced that deep a level of interaction.

Years later when the Maple grinding had finally taken its toll, I found a "real" MMO, The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar, and very quickly became obsessed with that. The community was much better than that of Maplestory, the combat mechanics felt nicely paced (not too slow, not too fast), the graphics were amazing (in comparison), I LOVE the story so that was a given, and everything else about the game was just fantastic. Then it moved into Moria and started to stagnate and eventually I just lost interest.

I tried Aion for about a month. Boy, was that a mistake.

And now, here I am, ready to give FFXIV a try. I've always enjoyed most FF titles, but never got into XI, so I figured this was my chance to break into the FF universe
as an MMO. And from what little I did manage to play in the closed beta, I can say with certainty that I'm excited.
____________________________
Quote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
This may quite possibly be the most epicly failed anti-antitroll trolling attempt.
#18 Sep 01 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Good
*
56 posts
My very first one was Anarchy Online. That was mental, I couldn't work out what to do at all!
Then I went on to Asheron's Call 2. That was a lot of fun as I had several friends playing it at the same time.
Then came FFXI, which kept me busy for a good 2 years!

Since then, I've had dalliances with WoW, Age of Conan, LotRO and Aion, and was in the beta for Tabula Rasa and Vanguard. Oh, and that Pirate MMO. That was a laugh.

Haven't had any MMO since FFXI that gave me as many great memories, both for atmosphere and entertaining evenings. Roll on launch day for FFXIV!
#19 Sep 01 2010 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
SleeplessMickey wrote:
Ultima Online, got WAyyyy too involved in that.


This!
#20 Sep 01 2010 at 11:58 AM Rating: Excellent
*
61 posts
dunlag wrote:
Asheron's Call was my first MMO.


This was my first as well.

I certainly don't have fond memories about that piece of junk ><;

I played several korean grindfests before settling down into FFXI for a few years once I realized that I hated the art direction from nearly every korean MMO I'd ever played. I don't need to see massive boobies hanging out of everything! It was always funny to see the same piece of armor on a female and on a male, because on the males it was like 4 lbs. of clothing, but on the female it was always two straps and a set of tassles.

Edit: Oh, and yes, I did play WoW and FFXI simultaneously for quite a while - as logging in to WoW to raid was the only thing to do for quite some time, so I spent the rest of my gaming time in FF.

Edited, Sep 1st 2010 2:00pm by DesmondTierney
#21 Sep 01 2010 at 11:59 AM Rating: Good
*
201 posts
Um...does Phantasy Star Online count?

If not, FFXI was my first one, but the MMO I've played the most is WoW. (My friends don't want to play anything else.)
____________________________
FFXI - Shinoh - BRD66/WHM41/RDM41/NIN37/COR30/THF25 - Fairy
WoW - Lv.80 Priest/Shaman/Paladin - Boulderfist/Malorne
FFXIV - Can't afford it now. =(
#22 Sep 01 2010 at 12:01 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
22 posts
My first MMO was probably Planetside, shortly followed by FFXI
#23 Sep 01 2010 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
550 posts
LMAO here is a screenshot of NWN...

http://retrofantasy.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/neverwinter-nights.jpg

SO epic.

My after those two I played some UO for a bit, skipped EQ (unfortunately), and went to FFXI, then played a little WoW and STO for a month each.
____________________________
XI - Draiden 75DRG/75COR (Sylph, Retired 08)


#24 Sep 01 2010 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
**
327 posts
BartelX wrote:
FFXI was my first actually... started at PS2 release and played for 6 years. I do not regret it in the slightest. =D


Me to a tee! The closest I had come to a MMO before the, was .hack series on PS2. Being A FF fanatic, I finally went out of my way to track down a HDD for my PS2, and then the addiction started. I've played many MMOs over the years, but FFXI is the only game I've never cancelled to this date.
____________________________

FFXI - LordDVS <Bismarck> BLU75 DRK75 SAM75 BST75 PLD75


#25 Sep 01 2010 at 12:11 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,673 posts
Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
I played MUDs... but FFXI was my first real MMO


This. I guess XI popped my cherry.
#26 Sep 01 2010 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good
Ultima Online. This is the game that made me realize that every one on the internet is an @#%^ who just wants to kill me, take my ore, and spew rape emotes over my corpse.

Corp Por! Vas Flam!

I owned the house right by the Britannia graveyard, another near the mountain south of Minoc, and another in the forest near Yew. Yes, I spent way too much time playing UO.

Edited, Sep 1st 2010 2:19pm by KarlHungis
#27 Sep 01 2010 at 12:17 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
350 posts
My first MMO was Sierra's The Realm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Realm_Online

I think it's one of the first graphical MMOs. It was pretty awesome at the time. I also remember it had funny bugs where you could get your cursor stuck as a "walk" cursor and then move the cursor up into the sky and your character would just walk up into the sky.
#28 Sep 01 2010 at 12:21 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
550 posts
Cyiode wrote:
My first MMO was Sierra's The Realm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Realm_Online

I think it's one of the first graphical MMOs. It was pretty awesome at the time. I also remember it had funny bugs where you could get your cursor stuck as a "walk" cursor and then move the cursor up into the sky and your character would just walk up into the sky.


Cool! Can't believe I missed that one.
____________________________
XI - Draiden 75DRG/75COR (Sylph, Retired 08)


#29 Sep 01 2010 at 12:23 PM Rating: Decent
4 posts
Mine was Ragnarok Online (Still waiting for Ragnarok Online 2)
#30 Sep 01 2010 at 12:24 PM Rating: Default
*
94 posts
XI. In 2003 the thought of even playing an MMO was the weirdest thing to me. Same year was my first comp build so I bought XI just....because. Idk why except that i was a long time FF fan but i really wasnt interested in it for some reason. Game grabbed me by the giblets worse than anything ive ever played. 6 years later I remember those times as very fond, fond memories :)
#31 Sep 01 2010 at 12:26 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,439 posts
First one was FFXI - never even considered playing another though as I got the copy through my brother-in-law and thought "This looks a bit dodgy", after about a month without even opening the box, I was bored so started the 'long' install and after the first months free trial I played almost every day for 4 years! lol great times....
____________________________
Esuna Forums

#32 Sep 01 2010 at 12:27 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,825 posts
My first MMO was Shadow of Yserbius, it was on TSN (The Sierra Network), later INN and then AT&T bought it and shut it down. It was as barebones as you could get, but was one of the first graphical MMOs. (FYI much older than The Realm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_of_Yserbius )

Later I dabbled in Neverwinter Nights (the Prodigy or was it AOL) MMO, and then UO. But I had the most fun in SoY even though you could hack it.

You can still play almost all of the above for free on open servers. And I do from time to time.

The worst MMO I ever played, but oddly enjoyed was Redmoon Online, look it up if you want to complain about XIs customization. It had about as much custom options as the charactor selection screen on Torchlight.



*EDIT* Doh I thought I linked to the two sequels and not the same Wiki as the OP did. Oh well.

Edited, Sep 1st 2010 7:59pm by PerrinofSylph
____________________________
FFXI:Sylph - Perrin 75 Hume THF; Retired (At least from my use any way)
EVE Online:ScraperX; Retired
WAR:IronClaw- Peryn SW;SkullThrone- Grymloc BO; Retired


#33 Sep 01 2010 at 12:32 PM Rating: Decent
6 posts
My first MMO was Meridian 59 and like others I played MUD's like Legend of the Red Dragon on BBS. =)
#34 Sep 01 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
291 posts
DesmondTierney wrote:
dunlag wrote:
Asheron's Call was my first MMO.


This was my first as well.

I certainly don't have fond memories about that piece of junk ><;

I played several korean grindfests before settling down into FFXI for a few years once I realized that I hated the art direction from nearly every korean MMO I'd ever played. I don't need to see massive boobies hanging out of everything! It was always funny to see the same piece of armor on a female and on a male, because on the males it was like 4 lbs. of clothing, but on the female it was always two straps and a set of tassles.

Edit: Oh, and yes, I did play WoW and FFXI simultaneously for quite a while - as logging in to WoW to raid was the only thing to do for quite some time, so I spent the rest of my gaming time in FF.

Edited, Sep 1st 2010 2:00pm by DesmondTierney


The only thing I could remember from that game was that you could put your stats point at whichever stats you like, and one of the stats was Jump. I remembered I saw some guy put a bunch of points in that stat and he could literally jump on the roof of a house in town...
#35 Sep 01 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
441 posts
my first MMO was original Everquest, after i was enlisted into beta testing Everquest Online Adventures for PS2 way back in the day (dunno if that game is still going or not)
____________________________
“Big jobs usually go to the men who prove their ability to outgrow small ones.”
Theodore Roosevelt

“Between men and women there is no friendship possible. There is passion, enmity, worship, love, but no friendship.”
Oscar Wilde

#36 Sep 01 2010 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
**
777 posts
Mine was MU Online was interesting but buggy and hack were rampant only played for like 6 months but that's what got me hooked on the MMO world.
____________________________
WoW: Féàr Mage 85
Agronà Warlock 85
Serénity Death Knight 81
Ziôn Druid 81
Séven Priest 85
Sevén Shaman 85
Fusiôn Paladin 85
Talva Hunter 85
Isolator Rogue 85
Coilfang - Horde
http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg
#37 Sep 01 2010 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
*
107 posts
My first MMO was Star Wars Galaxies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Galaxies

I got it a few days after it was released. I switched to FFXI around the time it was out for PS2 (I also had the Brady Guide for it...).

I still wish SOE would give old SWG fans the original game back. I can't speak for all of the fans, but I do know I would still pay to play original SWG.
____________________________
FFXI Hazero, Elvan PLD, retiered.
CoV, King Ghidora, Dominator retired
AoC, Mecha Ghidora, Dark Templar retired
Tabula Rasa, Super King, Grenadier retired
SWG, Hazero Ghidora, retired
DCUO, Crushlordian Earth Tank Retired
#38 Sep 01 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
19 posts
First MMORPG was NexusTK Kingdom of the Winds.

Oh the memories.
____________________________


#39 Sep 01 2010 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
KingGhidora wrote:
My first MMO was Star Wars Galaxies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Galaxies

I got it a few days after it was released. I switched to FFXI around the time it was out for PS2 (I also had the Brady Guide for it...).

I still wish SOE would give old SWG fans the original game back. I can't speak for all of the fans, but I do know I would still pay to play original SWG.


Me too. The original SWG, although buggy and rushed was an awesome, awesome game. That's the only game where I can say my favorite thing to do, above all else was to explore. Worlds were so huge and detailed, and you really had a feeling of immersion in the Star Wars universe.

Then came the CU and NGE which was suicide for the whole game basically. I resubscribed a few years ago just to wander around the universe again. Loved Naboo and Tatooine. It's a **** shame what happened to that game. I'm hoping TOR will deliver in the same ways that SWG did, but I doubt it will...
#40 Sep 01 2010 at 1:09 PM Rating: Default
Diablo 2 then FFXI
#41 Sep 01 2010 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
**
349 posts
Ultima Online

I sometimes miss that "sandbox" style of MMO....and also the fact that RP was a big part of it if you wanted to.
#42 Sep 01 2010 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
**
349 posts
Not to be bashful, but I don't think Diablo or Guild Wars are considered "MMO" in the real meaning of the expression. You actually don't play in a world at the same time as thousands, except in chat rooms.
#43 Sep 01 2010 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
Mine was also Phantasy Star Online on the Dreamcast, but that's if you consider it a true MMO since it was like Diablo and you created a room to constantly repeat the same 4 levels over, and over. Even if it's not a true MMO, it's the first online RPG I played that got me addicted to the games that followed.

And to MisterRandy, I realize they're not full on MMO's, but I think they were a lot of people's gateway drug into true MMO's.

Edited, Sep 1st 2010 3:17pm by Montsegurnephcreep
____________________________

#44 Sep 01 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,080 posts
I played every FF game there was, ordered FFXI automatically, without thinking about the actual meaning of MMO.
I started Oct 30, 03 and lived in Vanadiel for about 3.5 years... Many, many good memories and friends.
____________________________
A reader lives a thousand lives, the man who never reads lives only one. - George R.R. Martin
#45 Sep 01 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Decent
My fist was Everquest Online Adventures for the PS2. I have no clue if this game is still running or not, lol. TBH, I kinda miss it.
#46 Sep 01 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Decent
Yes I agree My Diablo 2 days I consider Multiplayer online game and thats why I also Stated FFXI which would be my first MMO, most people in the thread didnt just mention just thier first MMO so I followed suit and added a bit of additional info :)
#47 Sep 01 2010 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
*
183 posts
Earth and Beyond. I loved that game.

Ya, I said it.
#48 Sep 01 2010 at 1:19 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,112 posts
Part of the UO crowd here. I started out as a fully RPing man of the woods on Europa server. I'd spend most of my game life out in the middle of nowhere making bows and arrows, shooting animals, cooking them and living a meager existance. I got pretty good, or thought I did until I got steamtrained by a load of PKers outside of Brit west mountain pass on my way to deposit my bits and bobs and literally lost everything I'd spent 3 months building in mere moments.

After that episode, I looked into proper builds and found myself a great guild that helped me along the way. After a few weeks of work I had my dex mage trained up and practiced PKing with my guildies. Then, four weeks after loosing everything, me and a few buddies rode up to Brit west pass and smashed everyone there. One of my best gaming memories ever was getting revenge on those newbie gankers!

Played it for years, through the Trammel/Fellucia split (worst idea ever in my opinion, and I wasn't really a PK type) and T2A, lost lands were cool. Went on a hunting expedition for Ostards and just as everyone had found and tamed the Ostard they wanted we headed back to the gate (10 points to anyone who can remember the command to pass through without googling!) only to find they wouldnt come with us! We were shamed hehe.

The game dynamic changed, we looked to PvE more since Fellucia by this point was a ghost town and I dropped being a dex mage and became a Bard Tamer with a couple of others in the guild and we'd decimate pretty much any of the dungeons available. Then Khaldun came in and we went back to Fel, only to have our Bard/Tamer ***** handed to us once again by PKers inside the dungeon (I felt like almost crying when they killed my Dragon ;_;). Trained up as a dex mage in a matter of days as now I knew about afk sparring etc and went back and over the next month or so had some epic confrontations in there.

Then I had pangs of memory of the old days living out in the woods, and I realised how the game and my attitude to the game changed. After the whole Bushido business came out, I called it a day. Even now thinking about just exactly what you can do in UO it is such a massive game with barely any boundaries. Deffinately my favorite MMO of any I have played to date.

My next MMO was a 2D game made by the guys who then went on to make Maple Story, called Nexus TK. It was a decent enough game with great RP and the like, but I remember being puzzled why stealing and murder was punished by the GMs. UO had stealed me something rotten!
____________________________
To endanger the soul endangers all,
when the soul is endangered it must become a Warrior.
#49 Sep 01 2010 at 1:32 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,120 posts
First and only until XIV was XI. Definitely not an mmo player, just an "everything FF player" who also plays the ff mmos...
____________________________

#50 Sep 01 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
60 posts
My first MMO was FFXI. I remember when my friend and I were thinking about different games coming out at the time, and FFXI came to mind. We decided to get it at the same time, although my friend got it a month ahead :p. It was a great experience for us, considering it was our first MMO. Met interesting people throughout the game...

Edited, Sep 1st 2010 3:38pm by GrandScale
#51 Sep 01 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
*
107 posts
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
KingGhidora wrote:
My first MMO was Star Wars Galaxies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Galaxies

I got it a few days after it was released. I switched to FFXI around the time it was out for PS2 (I also had the Brady Guide for it...).

I still wish SOE would give old SWG fans the original game back. I can't speak for all of the fans, but I do know I would still pay to play original SWG.


Me too. The original SWG, although buggy and rushed was an awesome, awesome game. That's the only game where I can say my favorite thing to do, above all else was to explore. Worlds were so huge and detailed, and you really had a feeling of immersion in the Star Wars universe.

Then came the CU and NGE which was suicide for the whole game basically. I resubscribed a few years ago just to wander around the universe again. Loved Naboo and Tatooine. It's a **** shame what happened to that game. I'm hoping TOR will deliver in the same ways that SWG did, but I doubt it will...


I used to love exploring in SWG. I remember getting my first speeder and spending hours just flying across the different planets looking around. The way the game had the elements and landmarks from the movies and books was fantastic. I'm getting a little misty-eyed, I really loved that stupid game

From what I have seen out of TOR, its not looking too good.
____________________________
FFXI Hazero, Elvan PLD, retiered.
CoV, King Ghidora, Dominator retired
AoC, Mecha Ghidora, Dark Templar retired
Tabula Rasa, Super King, Grenadier retired
SWG, Hazero Ghidora, retired
DCUO, Crushlordian Earth Tank Retired
« Previous 1 2
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 20 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (20)