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Nearly a decade later, not much has changed (server-wise)Follow

#1 Sep 02 2010 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
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Does SE maintain its shoddy login and interface just for the sake of being unique? Why can't it at least mimic the performance of the WoW login? Everying in WoW seems so crisp and responsive. The minute you move your mouse, click anything, talk to anyone, any menu, there is an instantaneous response.

This was my complaint in FFXI. It took you 10 minutes just to log in using PlayOnline, and the screens are so laggy and clunky. It's the same this time around. And what's with the client? If I need to download a patch for WoW, I download it, fast, and that's the end of it. In FFXI I remember dreading tuesdays and how it would take 5 hours just to d/l a simple patch. Looks like that isnt going anywhere.

And what about the in game stuff? Everything feels so clumsy and clunky. Just targeting and talking to an NPC should be the first "quest"

Now a bit of a disclaimer, I did have fun playing, and I had fun playing FFXI too. I loved that game. But I do believe there are things that just shouldnt be around ten years later.
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#2 Sep 02 2010 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
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for XIV right now, part of the lag *may* be processes they are running to monitor everything
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#3 Sep 02 2010 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
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All we can do is hope they are learning with the Beta (even though they apparently didn't from FFXI).

But I digress, I really hope this is just due to Beta still and they fix it all for Release. I have faith.
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#4 Sep 02 2010 at 8:37 AM Rating: Good
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Not to be overly critical but your PC sucks. At least, it's not top-of-the-line which is what you're going to need to get faster response times from the game.

WoW is OLD AS ****. I remember when the game first came out running it on an older (but still playable PC) it wasn't responsive, the servers were down, and I remember having to reboot several times to get a patch installed.

SE is learning, they've even moved to an albeit clunky torrent client (which distributes the bandwidth and leaves their servers alone for doing what they need to do -- push client/server data for the game). I'm sure it's going to improve. This is the first 4th or 5th gen mmo (i'm not even sure which generation we're on) to be released that actually utilizes modern hardware.

Also, leave feedback, tell them they need a popup window when the game starts instructing users on how to use the interface. This is *BETA*, and since the core of the game seems to be solid, adding minor tweaks is going to be a breeze for them.
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#5 Sep 02 2010 at 8:39 AM Rating: Good
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No he's right. Welcome to Final Clunky XIV. Get your **** together square and use some of your money to upgrade your hardware.
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#6 Sep 02 2010 at 8:45 AM Rating: Default
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I do agree that it is clunky, but it isn't all that bad. WoW being 10 years old is a statement to what Blizzard got right. I was never a big WoW fan but I do give them credit in creating a user-friendly game.
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#7 Sep 02 2010 at 8:47 AM Rating: Default
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Yeah, I'm not going to buy the computer argument, because I had it in full screen mode with everything turned to lowest settings. It wasnt the GAME that was lagging, it was the menus and interface. My laptop may not be top of the line, but if it can play SC2 on ULTRA without a wink of slowdown, it should be able to play FFXIV on lowest in low resolution.

It's just the design of the game. I have played FFXI on my laptop and that game still is clunky and laggy. It's not the hardware.

EDIT: forgot to mention that I played both FFXI and WoW since release. So I do remember how WoW was, and how it evolved. Even in the first few weeks of release WoW always had a nice, clean interface that was very responsive. The server stability is another issue completely unrelated--I can understand problems there when launching an open beta.


Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 10:48am by Hugznkisses
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#8 Sep 02 2010 at 8:50 AM Rating: Decent
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To be fair: There possibly would be far less lag-related clunk if a simple menu interaction wouldn't require 4 confirmation clunks to clunk in the direction I want it to. Not to mention clunking through other people's bazaars. Or even the retainer wards. Dr. Evils Chambers of Clunkiness, there.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 10:52am by Rinsui
#9 Sep 02 2010 at 8:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Anaris85 wrote:
WoW being 10 years old is a statement to what Blizzard got right.

Except that WoW isn't 10 years old. It started on November 23, 2004.
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#10 Sep 02 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, but it's all in the looks, eh? ^.-/
#11 Sep 02 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Ralrra wrote:
Anaris85 wrote:
WoW being 10 years old is a statement to what Blizzard got right.

Except that WoW isn't 10 years old. It started on November 23, 2004.


Right, it's actually the younger brother. I think I'll just pass this off as American ingenuity.

******** yeah[/sm]
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#12 Sep 02 2010 at 8:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Anaris85 wrote:
I do agree that it is clunky, but it isn't all that bad. WoW being 10 years old is a statement to what Blizzard got right. I was never a big WoW fan but I do give them credit in creating a user-friendly game.


WoW is in no way older than FFXI unless I missed a few years because I'm pretty sure it was released 2 years after FFXI.

Also FFXIV is still in a testing phase which means the servers are more than likely running a ton of monitoring processes and bottlenecking and with the UI being serverside it can affect it's performance however it IS better compared to even Phase 3.
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#13 Sep 02 2010 at 8:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Right now there's a software screen in between everyone's computer and the server. So every time you send a command out, it goes through this screen before going to the server. When the server sends its response, it also goes through this screen to get to you. The purpose of this screen is to collect and store data for testing/bug fixing purposes. When open beta ends and this screen is removed, two resource soaking steps in the communication process will have been removed. The result -should- be that response times are much quicker, and that servers have more resources available to service the thousands of accounts logging on.

Also note that, since Alpha, this lag has also improved.... so there is hope yet.

Edit: Elexia beat me to it.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 10:56am by JuRo7
#14 Sep 02 2010 at 8:56 AM Rating: Decent
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So much clunking last night. the clunking.. the clunking!!!
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#15 Sep 02 2010 at 8:58 AM Rating: Default
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Right. Spent another night at the retainer dungeon, did you?
#16 Sep 02 2010 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

It's just the design of the game. I have played FFXI on my laptop and that game still is clunky and laggy. It's not the hardware.


But it is the hardware and your hardware sucks - go upgrade. My game barely lags and when it does its barely noticeable, go figure.
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#17 Sep 02 2010 at 9:05 AM Rating: Decent
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It's a software problem. A download manager that's in essence a bittorrent client capping out one of your CPU cores has problems. I have utorrent doing the exact same job (you can pull the torrents out of the FFXIV folders) with negligible CPU use. There's a problem with the way they are handling the front end, probably some kind of recursive check that should be left until the end of the download, that or they're trying to traffic shape on the fly to ensure the torrent stays healthy. This is the same kind of shoddy coding (disclaimer: I haven't seen the code) you see with PlayOnline. I'd bet they're using the same firm for the front end.
#18 Sep 02 2010 at 9:12 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
It's a software problem. A download manager that's in essence a bittorrent client capping out one of your CPU cores has problems. I have utorrent doing the exact same job (you can pull the torrents out of the FFXIV folders) with negligible CPU use. There's a problem with the way they are handling the front end, probably some kind of recursive check that should be left until the end of the download, that or they're trying to traffic shape on the fly to ensure the torrent stays healthy. This is the same kind of shoddy coding (disclaimer: I haven't seen the code) you see with PlayOnline. I'd bet they're using the same firm for the front end.


I think it keeps one core constantly busy because its uncompressing the data as it downloads (albeit slowly), as opposed to uTorrent, which uncompresses at the very end, and uses every core you have to do it more rapidly.

The problem with the downloader is that it deletes the patch download as soon as its installed, leaving the server as the only real seeder for thousands of downloaders. However, once you open up the right ports, the downloader works great (50-70% as fast as my uTorrent can download).
#19 Sep 02 2010 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
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JuRo7 wrote:
I think it keeps one core constantly busy because its uncompressing the data as it downloads (albeit slowly), as opposed to uTorrent, which uncompresses at the very end, and uses every core you have to do it more rapidly.


Nope. Was sitting at 100% with 0 connected peers for quite some time, and decompressing data at 24kbps does not use a 3ghz core on a core2. That and utorrent didn't/doesn't decompress the file (it does check sums and moves the files at the end). If it had to be decompressed by the torrent client you wouldn't be able to use anything but SE's downloader, which is obviously not the case since a bunch of us have used actually torrent clients to pull the files down.
#20 Sep 02 2010 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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Maybe its stuck at 100% because the server is down then. The data does have to be verified with SE's server, doesn't it? If the server is down, verification can't be carried out I guess. And its possible the server congestion is the cause of the problem as well.

I'm no tech guy, just guessing :P
#21 Sep 02 2010 at 9:33 AM Rating: Default
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Nope. Was sitting at 100% with 0 connected peers for quite some time, and decompressing data at 24kbps does not use a 3ghz core on a core2.



Do you remember the file check procedure in FFXI? I would bet that this still takes place except there is no notification that anything is happening, other than the responsiveness in the updater goes to **** and your CPU usage spikes.

#22 Sep 02 2010 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Your face is clunky!

Not really aimed at anyone... just felt the need to say it.
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#23 Sep 02 2010 at 10:37 AM Rating: Decent
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JuRo7 wrote:
Maybe its stuck at 100% because the server is down then. The data does have to be verified with SE's server, doesn't it? If the server is down, verification can't be carried out I guess. And its possible the server congestion is the cause of the problem as well.

I'm no tech guy, just guessing :P


Nope, torrents don't work that way. They're verified by comparing the hash in the torrent with the completed file.
#24 Sep 02 2010 at 10:38 AM Rating: Decent
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windexy wrote:
Do you remember the file check procedure in FFXI? I would bet that this still takes place except there is no notification that anything is happening, other than the responsiveness in the updater goes to **** and your CPU usage spikes.


Can't be done on the fly, you don't have the file yet, there's nothing to check. FFXI file check happened before and after the download, not during.
#25 Sep 02 2010 at 10:49 AM Rating: Good
You know, SE probably doesn't want to invest a ton of money on all this hardware for one or two days? People keep saying, oh this is just a testing phase! Well, Alpha, it was a problem, Beta 1, problem, Beta 2, problem, Beta 3, problem, now Open Beta, low and behold, a problem!

Problem is, once the game is going full steam and all the initial crap is done, this money they invested to please the OCD crowd is almost wasted. Sure you could argue for updates sake that it may help, but by that point things should have settled and they won't have the world's population bombarding their servers. I can't recall an MMO that I've ever played that launched flawlessly. People can't seem to wait a couple days for things to settle down, they absolutely have to log on! The game's still going to be around in 10 years, I know people are excited, but seriously, missing a few days of FF won't hurt anyone. There's a reason why I'm waiting until December to consider buying this game.
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#26 Sep 02 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Default
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Can't be done on the fly, you don't have the file yet, there's nothing to check. FFXI file check happened before and after the download, not during.


Ah, I was going off my experience. I had already gotten the main update days ago and when I needed to update before it downloaded or made any connections whatsoever it sat there lagging the system out like a *******. As soon as whatever it was doing in the background ended my system went back to performing like normal, CPU usage dropped and I immediately had remote and local connections. This would be BEFORE the download like you said.

Of course this all only applies if you've already got something downloaded and there is actually something to check also like you mentioned.
#27 Sep 02 2010 at 11:13 AM Rating: Decent
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You know we are either using SE update method for FF14 or either we are going to slapped in the face with an untested updater on launch. Both are terrifying to think of.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 1:14pm by FaithseekerOishii
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#28 Sep 02 2010 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent
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I swear if people don't STFU about WoW I'm gonna kill the world. That game is garbage, if you're a WoW fanboy then go find some WoW forums.
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