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Since the mouse isn't going to change... (gamepad play)Follow

#1 Sep 02 2010 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
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Is this something you would buy? And for a more important question, will it work?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826127209

Edit: Changed title to better fit the post

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 5:58pm by Castrophany
#2 Sep 02 2010 at 3:29 PM Rating: Default
Edited by bsphil
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Why would you want to use a mouse? Wasn't a smart idea in FFXI either.
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#3 Sep 02 2010 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
Why would you want to use a mouse? Wasn't a smart idea in FFXI either.


Because it is a PC game?
#4 Sep 02 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
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>Why would you want to use a mouse.

Because I'm used to it. Because I'm faster with it. It's standard in almost every game. It's ridiculous for such a high budget game not to have a hardware mouse option. It's not that hard to implement, I've done it for applications I've worked on!

//played ffxi on a ps2 with a controller and a keyboard for four years.
#5 Sep 02 2010 at 3:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thats cool and all guys, but will the gamepad I linked work?
#6 Sep 02 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Default
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It might--but you should just get a ps3 sixaxis controller.
#7 Sep 02 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Default
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The mouse was unnecessary in XI only because it was macro driven, you press ctrl+number of alt+number rather than go through the menu. XIV changed all this, you have a set row of abilities at the bottom screen. Using a mouse lets u overlap each abilityto see what it does so u can decide what ability u want to use next. Pressing a number forces u to rely on the ability icon so what if u misread an icon or didnt remember what that icon does? Mouse is way better in FFXIV during combat ability usage.
#8 Sep 02 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I suggest taking the wiring for an X360 controller and making something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c3q9K4cHzY

Then you could make the table top a ffxiv theme.

I'll likely just use the keyboard even if I go the PS3 route. I like the Numpad and if I can rebind everything...I'll likely just use numpad/arrow keys for right hand...then left hand for macros/hotkeys.
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#9 Sep 02 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Good
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walmart
xbox 360 wired controller
$40

same cost as that + shipping
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#10 Sep 02 2010 at 3:37 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I suggest taking the wiring for an X360 controller and making something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c3q9K4cHzY

Then you could make the table top a ffxiv theme.


****.
#11 Sep 02 2010 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Riathy wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Why would you want to use a mouse? Wasn't a smart idea in FFXI either.


Because it is a PC game?
So was FFXI, and using the keyboard was vastly superior in that.

Imaboomer wrote:
The mouse was unnecessary in XI only because it was macro driven, you press ctrl+number of alt+number rather than go through the menu. XIV changed all this, you have a set row of abilities at the bottom screen. Using a mouse lets u overlap each abilityto see what it does so u can decide what ability u want to use next. Pressing a number forces u to rely on the ability icon so what if u misread an icon or didnt remember what that icon does? Mouse is way better in FFXIV during combat ability usage.
XIV's macro system is better than XI's, so you'll still be using ctrl/alt+number. People didn't need assistance remembering what macros were what in FFXI because they ended up getting used thousands of times. This will happen in XIV as well.
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#12 Sep 02 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Just because keyboard play works that doesn't mean that mouse play shouldn't be feasible.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 5:44pm by antihexe
#13 Sep 02 2010 at 3:55 PM Rating: Decent
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True, but is gamepad play feasible? I do not want to download programs off the internet. I am paranoid about that. I could do wired or wireless, I don't care. I just don't know how it interacts with FFXIV.

One of the questions for the beta form was if you play with a gamepad. And since there will be a ps3 version, I will assume you can.

My question: Is it supported on PC? Does anyone out there play right now on a gamepad? How does button assignment work? And does the right analog stick move the camera while the left moves the character? The people want to know.
#14 Sep 02 2010 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes gamepads are excellent for XIV. Especially the link you provided. Thats the game pad I use exclusively. Was a long time keyboard only player but I personally would never go back after getting used to the rumble pad. Customization is A++
#15 Sep 02 2010 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Yes gamepads are excellent for XIV. Especially the link you provided. Thats the game pad I use exclusively. Was a long time keyboard only player but I personally would never go back after getting used to the rumble pad. Customization is A++


Thank you.
#16 Sep 02 2010 at 4:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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I know this is probably a silly question, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. I was trying to find out if they adjusted the controls at all? All I want is for camera control on the arrow keys a la FFXI, but I haven't been able to confirm if they've still kept the same keyboard control scheme. Anyone wanna clear this up?

Thanks!

Edit: Nevermind, found the answer myself. No arrow controls for camera makes me a sad panda :(

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 6:40pm by DesmondTierney
#17 Sep 02 2010 at 4:44 PM Rating: Good
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Hey guys, I got a question about gamepads. How do you program it for ffxiv? I go to the config>gamepad, and it recognizes my controller, but when I try to put in buttons, nothing happens and I can't program the controller. Could someone possibly post a tutorial on this? I also tried to use joytokey, but was once again thoroughly confused.
#18 Sep 02 2010 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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Castrophany wrote:
Is this something you would buy? And for a more important question, will it work?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826127209

Edit: Changed title to better fit the post

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 5:58pm by Castrophany
It will work fine, I have a similar model, as long as you have 16 buttons (including the pad) it should be fine.

On the other hand it's a shame that we can't use the mouse, far better to play on pc with keyboard/mouse combo than a gamepad or keyboard alone, but well... lets hope they implement something later =)

Ken
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#19 Sep 02 2010 at 6:28 PM Rating: Good
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I'm rocking the gamepad keyboard mouse combo, its pretty nice. The PS3 controller feels the most natural to me, and the design of the one in the OP if quite close to that with some extra buttons on the face it looks like. Sounds like a good deal
#20 Sep 02 2010 at 6:32 PM Rating: Decent
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For that price yea I would just buy a xbox 360 or ps3 controller.
#21 Sep 02 2010 at 6:35 PM Rating: Good
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DesmondTierney wrote:
I know this is probably a silly question, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. I was trying to find out if they adjusted the controls at all? All I want is for camera control on the arrow keys a la FFXI, but I haven't been able to confirm if they've still kept the same keyboard control scheme. Anyone wanna clear this up?

Thanks!

Edit: Nevermind, found the answer myself. No arrow controls for camera makes me a sad panda :(

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 6:40pm by DesmondTierney



I'm going to have a big problem with this.

In FFXI, I used one hand to control my character and the camera at the same time, by using my thumb on the arrow keys while using my other fingers on the number pad. I REALLY don't like having the camera control keys so far away from the number pad, and on top of that, they are in the worst possible place, right in the middle of the keyboard. Who the **** plays games with their right hand in that spot?

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#22 Sep 02 2010 at 10:11 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Fetter wrote:
Who the **** plays games with their right hand in that spot?

-__-
My right hand is almost always there, especially for FFXI.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
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#23 Sep 02 2010 at 10:20 PM Rating: Good
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Fetter wrote:
DesmondTierney wrote:
I know this is probably a silly question, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. I was trying to find out if they adjusted the controls at all? All I want is for camera control on the arrow keys a la FFXI, but I haven't been able to confirm if they've still kept the same keyboard control scheme. Anyone wanna clear this up?

Thanks!

Edit: Nevermind, found the answer myself. No arrow controls for camera makes me a sad panda :(

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 6:40pm by DesmondTierney



I'm going to have a big problem with this.

In FFXI, I used one hand to control my character and the camera at the same time, by using my thumb on the arrow keys while using my other fingers on the number pad. I REALLY don't like having the camera control keys so far away from the number pad, and on top of that, they are in the worst possible place, right in the middle of the keyboard. Who the **** plays games with their right hand in that spot?

-__-


I have faith that solutions for that will come. Just like how there was a windower with a bunch of useful plugins for ffxi, i'm sure there will be another program like that that'll make the controls feel right at home like ffxi, hardware mouse, or what i personally can't wait for, an auto-attack function. Communication during hard fights ftw.
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#24 Sep 02 2010 at 10:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm using that exact one now, works great!
#25 Sep 02 2010 at 11:45 PM Rating: Decent
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repost
Quote:

FFXI style gamepad layout for FFXIV


Emote List/Stack Battle Commands: Right Bumper

Cancel : B Button

Select/confirm : A Button

Main Menu : X Button

Auto run : Left Bumper

Open Macros (ctrl) : Right Trigger

Target Lock : Left Stick (clicky)

Passive/Active Mode : Y Button

Open Macros (Alt) : Left Trigger

Change View : Right Stick (clicky)

Display Map : Back Button

View Status Effects : Start Button





360 Buttons
-Y-
X-B
-A-


I've mapped FFXIV controls to their FFXI equivalents. Two buttons did not have direct FFXI counterparts. I mapped battle stack commands to the right bumper (which is "Take Screenshot" in FFXI) and Passive/Active Mode to the button that FFXI uses for Active Window/Window Options. For those that don't have a 360 controller the "start" and "back" buttons are two small buttons located to either side of the big green X in the middle of the controller.

To map everything to a gamepad you need 12 buttons btw.
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#26 Sep 03 2010 at 12:04 AM Rating: Decent
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SO is there anyone out there already who is actually using a ps3 controller in beta.

I would be really interested to hear whether it works and if so what software you are using to get it to work.

I already have ps3 controllers and dont really want to have to go and buy an xbox 360 controller just for this game.
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#27 Sep 03 2010 at 12:10 AM Rating: Decent
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http://www.motioninjoy.com/

Make sure you map the keys before you use it.
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#28 Sep 03 2010 at 3:14 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm actually using a PS2 Netplay controller with a USB adapter, and I hope to keep using it unless they come out with an improved model of an integrated controller and keyboard. Ideally I'd like a controller with a compact keyboard on the backside (think about it-- you pretty much only use your thumbs for a gamepad and pretty much only your fingers for typing). ****, I'd make one myself if I had the time or skill (either one), and then I'd get the fluidity of a controller without ever having to put it down to switch to keyboard.

I've seen some planned models, but I don't think any have actually been launched, and they look stupid. They put a regular QWERTY keyboard on the back of a controller, but since your fingers are pointing inwards rather than upwards, you'd have to learn an entirely new method of keyboarding to use it effectively. But they could just as easily put the keys in the same places that they always are relative to your hand position.
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#29 Sep 03 2010 at 3:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Three things..

First - They said they were going to fix the mouse issues.

Second - Do you guys not have EB Games in your local area? Why are you buying 30 dollar controllers online, when you can spend 10 bucks and buy a used Xbox 360, ps3 controller which works perfectly fine with pc games?

Third = Stop trumpeting "I am a pc gamer so i don't have to use a controller!" This is nonsense, you should be a gamer, and a gamer is capable of using anything he/she has to use in order to game. There is no rule that says you shouldn't use a controller, the rule is to use what is best, and for this MMO the better device is a gamepad. Not because this game is a console port or anything stupid like that, this game is 100times better with a gamepad, and to be honest i wish i could play more mmos with a gamepad, is much more comfortable, you can play for hours with your feet up, relaxing chilling, its so much better.

I played WoW for years, Aion for Years, Lineage 2 for years, ie never been able to just sit back and relax while playing those games

When they fix the mouse, i garuntee you will still prefer the gamepad overr the mouse and keyboard for this game.
#30 Sep 03 2010 at 3:36 AM Rating: Good
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deserttfoxx wrote:

Third = Stop trumpeting "I am a pc gamer so i don't have to use a controller!" This is nonsense, you should be a gamer, and a gamer is capable of using anything he/she has to use in order to game.


That made me /clap
Games were meant to be played with controllers = P

I understand the argument though, seems a game made in 2010 should be able to have keyboard, mouse, & controller methods all working at top ability with remapping of all possible buttons. Just seems like it should be automatic...

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#31 Sep 03 2010 at 7:36 AM Rating: Decent
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One thing that bugs me is that unlike FFXI certain things seem to REQUIRE you to use the keyboard. Unless I'm missing something.

For example there seems to be no way to get to the chat window without using the keyboard or mouse. Which means if I want to scroll back through the chat long I have to hit the spacebar to get to that window.

And (somwhat unrelated) if anyone knows a way to reset the UI windows to default layout I'd really like to know what it is.


I also hate how objects (like the Aetheryte) aren't targetable. You have to walk near them, open the main menu and then select the option for that item that as appeared at the top of the menu. In FFXI you just targeted the item and hit the "confirm" button. It is bad design to take a function that requires two controller actions and is highly intuitive and change is so it is less intuitive and requires 3 or more. It's seems weird that FFXI actually has a better UI than FFXIV in many ways.



Edited, Sep 3rd 2010 10:44am by Lobivopis
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#32 Sep 03 2010 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
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Lobivopis wrote:
One thing that bugs me is that unlike FFXI certain things seem to REQUIRE you to use the keyboard. Unless I'm missing something.

For example there seems to be no way to get to the chat window without using the keyboard or mouse. Which means if I want to scroll back through the chat long I have to hit the spacebar to get to that window.

And (somwhat unrelated) if anyone knows a way to reset the UI windows to default layout I'd really like to know what it is.


I miss that, I remember being able to hit what would be the square button on a PS controller to tab from window to window with ease. The way it is now if I missed something in the chat log it may go ignored because I don't wanna bother...haven't figured out if there's something that's supposed to be doing that or not
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#33 Sep 03 2010 at 8:11 AM Rating: Decent
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I am using a Sony branded Dualshock 3. It works just as well as any other controller.

To get it to work I used the USB cable that came with the controller connected to a USB extension cord plugged into my PC. I use motioninjoy for drivers. Easy to install/setup, multiple virus scans came back clean. It's also unobtrusive -- just puts a little PS3 icon in your system tray.

And as stated above the only real issue with using a controller (any kind) is that you can't get to the chat pane with it. You have to use a keyboard for that.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2010 10:13am by hints
#34 Sep 03 2010 at 8:26 AM Rating: Decent
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keyboard only play work for me ...
#35 Sep 03 2010 at 8:39 AM Rating: Good
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I might have to buy a controller just to try it out. I just CANNOT get used to this keyboard layout. The ONLY thing that screws it up for me is the camera controlls.

I just don't understand why they didn't keep it the same as FFXI. It's just horrible as it is :/
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#36 Sep 03 2010 at 8:44 AM Rating: Decent
deserttfoxx wrote:

Second - Do you guys not have EB Games in your local area? Why are you buying 30 dollar controllers online, when you can spend 10 bucks and buy a used Xbox 360, ps3 controller which works perfectly fine with pc games?


If only they were that cheap. I've been looking for a cheap xbox 360 wired controller for a while now. EB and Gamestop (same company) sell the used wired controllers for at least 30 bucks, no cheaper. If you want a lesser Madcatz version it still costs at least 20.

I had to go the eBay route and get a used official xbox 360 controller for around 20.00, and that's about the best deal I could find without resorting to Chinese knockoffs.
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#37 Sep 03 2010 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Is anyone else having issues configuring their controller with the game?
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#38 Sep 03 2010 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
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What kind of issues?
#39 Sep 03 2010 at 8:47 AM Rating: Good
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Lobivopis wrote:
I also hate how objects (like the Aetheryte) aren't targetable. You have to walk near them, open the main menu and then select the option for that item that as appeared at the top of the menu. In FFXI you just targeted the item and hit the "confirm" button. It is bad design to take a function that requires two controller actions and is highly intuitive and change is so it is less intuitive and requires 3 or more. It's seems weird that FFXI actually has a better UI than FFXIV in many ways.



Edited, Sep 3rd 2010 10:44am by Lobivopis


I kinda like this.

Saves the whole tab tab tab tab *sigh* shift-tab to target it.

It's just horrible with the server lag at the moment (30 second delay when I'm fishing, with no one else near me? Erm no thanks, see you in 2 weeks...)
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#40 Sep 03 2010 at 8:50 AM Rating: Decent
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edit: fail double post so i'll just add to this

I'm getting to like the start menu stuff. I can't imagine trying to tab through the 100 people around a crystal.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2010 10:51am by hints
#41 Sep 03 2010 at 9:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, I had downloaded and installed the Closed Beta client, and have been using a PS2 controller running via a converter. Now, when I load the config, it no longer recognizes it or lets me set any buttons for it.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#42 Sep 03 2010 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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As much as it would be nice to use a PS3 controller, I hate hate hate the MotionInJoy drivers. Someone please correct me if this has changed, but the last time I tried these, they only worked with a limited number of Bluetooth radios, because the programmer is doing some weird funky thing where he bypasses a chunk of the normal Bluetooth stack and manipulates the radios directly. Why should this even be necessary? Furthermore, by installing these drivers, you totally mess up the existing driver stack. You can use the controller, or use other Bluetooth devices, but not both. These drivers are not designed properly, and it pains me to see people recommend them. Unfortunately, they seem to be the only game in town, if you want to use a PS3 controller on Windows.

The other issue with the MotionInJoy drivers is that they're not signed, meaning you have to go through some weird boot-time gymnastics to disable driver signature checking if you're running Vista or Windows 7 64-bit.

I gave up on MotionInJoy and bought the aforementioned Logitech Cordless Rumblepad 2 controller instead. It comes with signed drivers and a versatile configuration utility. I've been using it with FFXI for a number of months now. Battery life is good, and my experience with the controller on Windows 7 64-bit has been completely hassle-free to date.
#43 Sep 03 2010 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree, the unsigned part of motioninjoy is a pain.

I didn't get the bluetooth drivers, just get a usb wire and you are set.
#44 Sep 03 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent
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I just bought a PS3 wired controller from Gamestop/EB Games, their brand. connected and worked first try.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#45 Sep 03 2010 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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deserttfoxx wrote:
Third = Stop trumpeting "I am a pc gamer so i don't have to use a controller!" This is nonsense, you should be a gamer, and a gamer is capable of using anything he/she has to use in order to game. There is no rule that says you shouldn't use a controller, the rule is to use what is best, and for this MMO the better device is a gamepad. Not because this game is a console port or anything stupid like that, this game is 100times better with a gamepad, and to be honest i wish i could play more mmos with a gamepad, is much more comfortable, you can play for hours with your feet up, relaxing chilling, its so much better.

I played WoW for years, Aion for Years, Lineage 2 for years, ie never been able to just sit back and relax while playing those games

When they fix the mouse, i garuntee you will still prefer the gamepad overr the mouse and keyboard for this game.


I'm curious how you played a game that's been out for one year for years.

But more importantly, no way of controlling the game is actually "better" than another; depends on the person. Keyboard and mouse is massively better than gamepad for me.
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