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#152 Sep 08 2010 at 10:29 PM Rating: Excellent
Archmage Callinon wrote:
zoltanrs wrote:

2. It has yet to take me 4 seconds to do anything. Just sayin'


On this note: 1 second is too long and that's what I'm averaging on UI response.

Think about it, would you tolerate a 1000ms latency ping? No, of course you wouldn't, but that's what you've got and you seem to somehow be ok with that.

Except it's even worse than that because absolutely EVERYTHING goes through the server, you can't even open a menu without the server's ok.


That will change when official service starts. My guess is that they've disabled basic features like player searches in favor of gathering data about how people are navigating the menu system. It's neither efficient nor practical to route every UI interaction through the servers, but that's what's happening right now.
#153 Sep 08 2010 at 10:32 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
zoltanrs wrote:

2. It has yet to take me 4 seconds to do anything. Just sayin'


On this note: 1 second is too long and that's what I'm averaging on UI response.

Think about it, would you tolerate a 1000ms latency ping? No, of course you wouldn't, but that's what you've got and you seem to somehow be ok with that.

Except it's even worse than that because absolutely EVERYTHING goes through the server, you can't even open a menu without the server's ok.


That will change when official service starts. My guess is that they've disabled basic features like player searches in favor of gathering data about how people are navigating the menu system. It's neither efficient nor practical to route every UI interaction through the servers, but that's what's happening right now.


Do you have an official word on that?

I'm curious if they've ever actually acknowledged that this is an issue that's interfering with people's first impressions of their game, also I want to bump your post count to the obvious meme-levels
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#154 Sep 08 2010 at 10:37 PM Rating: Decent
Archmage Callinon wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
zoltanrs wrote:

2. It has yet to take me 4 seconds to do anything. Just sayin'


On this note: 1 second is too long and that's what I'm averaging on UI response.

Think about it, would you tolerate a 1000ms latency ping? No, of course you wouldn't, but that's what you've got and you seem to somehow be ok with that.

Except it's even worse than that because absolutely EVERYTHING goes through the server, you can't even open a menu without the server's ok.


That will change when official service starts. My guess is that they've disabled basic features like player searches in favor of gathering data about how people are navigating the menu system. It's neither efficient nor practical to route every UI interaction through the servers, but that's what's happening right now.


Do you have an official word on that?

I'm curious if they've ever actually acknowledged that this is an issue that's interfering with people's first impressions of their game, also I want to bump your post count to the obvious meme-levels


Can't believe I wasted post 9000 on that D:

No MMO I know of runs the UI off the server. It's just an extremely inefficient way of doing things and we can see the results clear as day...the UI is painful to navigate in part because the layout is trash and in part because of the delay between selecting one option and having the next nested menu pop up.

I guess the point is that nobody should really be basing their interest in the game on the UI lag. The UI layout, by all means. But the lag is something that SE needs to address and I can't imagine they would think for even a minute that it's okay the way it is.
#155 Sep 08 2010 at 10:40 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
zoltanrs wrote:

2. It has yet to take me 4 seconds to do anything. Just sayin'


On this note: 1 second is too long and that's what I'm averaging on UI response.

Think about it, would you tolerate a 1000ms latency ping? No, of course you wouldn't, but that's what you've got and you seem to somehow be ok with that.

Except it's even worse than that because absolutely EVERYTHING goes through the server, you can't even open a menu without the server's ok.


That will change when official service starts. My guess is that they've disabled basic features like player searches in favor of gathering data about how people are navigating the menu system. It's neither efficient nor practical to route every UI interaction through the servers, but that's what's happening right now.


Do you have an official word on that?

I'm curious if they've ever actually acknowledged that this is an issue that's interfering with people's first impressions of their game, also I want to bump your post count to the obvious meme-levels


Can't believe I wasted post 9000 on that D:

No MMO I know of runs the UI off the server. It's just an extremely inefficient way of doing things and we can see the results clear as day...the UI is painful to navigate in part because the layout is trash and in part because of the delay between selecting one option and having the next nested menu pop up.

I guess the point is that nobody should really be basing their interest in the game on the UI lag. The UI layout, by all means. But the lag is something that SE needs to address and I can't imagine they would think for even a minute that it's okay the way it is.


I'm sure it works fine for them Smiley: oyvey

Believe me, I would like nothing more than to be wrong about the problems I have with the game right now. I want it to be successful for all the right reasons. But the more I see, the more I confirm my earlier impression that they're intentionally releasing an inferior product so they can fix it later and claim progress, improvement, and community involvement.
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#156 Sep 08 2010 at 10:45 PM Rating: Excellent
Archmage Callinon wrote:

Believe me, I would like nothing more than to be wrong about the problems I have with the game right now. I want it to be successful for all the right reasons. But the more I see, the more I confirm my earlier impression that they're intentionally releasing an inferior product so they can fix it later and claim progress, improvement, and community involvement.


SE made the decision to rush the PC version through testing and get it live and making money ASAP. There are bound to be issues, but right now if you visit any forum involving XIV in any significant way, one of the most glaring issues to come up is the UI and how, if left as it is, it will ruin the game for many, many people.

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me to see a patch in the last few days of the open beta that shifts the UI management client side just so people can see before official server starts that the issue has, in fact, been resolved.
#157 Sep 08 2010 at 11:48 PM Rating: Good
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Press F and put yourself in passive mode. Jesus! You are making this really hard!

Also you auto learn the abilities other than the special guild ones. those take points. you arent ready for that methinks.

you think i tried equip spear when i was in combat mode?
ehm no, i tried it when i was in town, after i bought it.
Still cant equip it, and it still doesnt say why i cant.

Quote:
issue has been addressed. you need a new computer on your end. They stated they have a bunch of monitoring scripts runnin on beta so they can fix things. I'm not sure what you want.

when i say i have 10seconds delay, i mean i have 10seconds delay, not 1FPS or whatever.
actually its more than 10seconds delay from when i click *synthesize* until synth window pop up, and inbetween me clicking and it appearing, it says (not responding) in window.
i have 30fps and 100mbit connection, so ...again, its nothing to do with my comp, and it IS THAT LAGGY!
only moving around isnt laggy, it takes a second or 3 to start combat mode, it takes several seconds to inititate conversations with NPCs. and it take several seconds from when i hit esc in shop windows, to go out to *quit* store.
etc etc.
So the *issue* hasnt been resolved...
what i want? browse through menus, and fight without 10sec delays? is that asking to much? or am i to *hello kitty* for asking for 100- ping

Quote:
A boss on FF would take a full alliance of people several hours to defeat. You killed a decent challenge. Also the Maps are Freaking huge. theres still places where noone is at all with lower mobs.

Mushrooms and fireflies are around same lv, but mushrooms have 10x more hp.
just saying. Why bring up boss' that require alliances and hours to kill?
im speaking of normal lv 1-5mobs.
and i was running around couple maps, and there was those raibow basilisks that did 6200dam, and then there was some marbods that are lv 1-5. they are everywhere. i havnt seen any low lv areas deep in the forest somewhere, where no one else is. there's just those squirrels, and mobs that 1hit you. so i dont know what areas you speak of where no one is yet, with low lv mobs...well except those squirrels. but why would you run into the depts of the forest to hunt squirrels?
Around the corner from 1st camp, there's linworms that hit me for 1-2k damage, am i supposed to go past those to find some untouched low lv area?

Quote:
There is a game guide that explains almost every little problem you are having it takes 3 minutes to read. also beta etc etc.

like i stated couple times before, i cant read the manual on test site, cause i cant enter the site, cause when i try log-in i loop back to log-in page. endlessly.
i want to go read it, but cant. so im stuck with spamming ppl for help with all these details. cause there's no tutorials in-game...which is where it should be, not on web page.

Quote:
WRONG!
This is the same system in a way from FFXI. Better ground was broken but not new ground.

There are no recipes outside what you find out. This ain't hello kitty island adventure. You physically have to compile them yourself or find a list where someone has. FF Welcome to trial and error

I thought the game was aimed at casual playing...
so why all the hassle of compiling recipies yourself?? its just time-consuming. which would be ok, if it wasnt for the 8hr/week thing. compiling it yourself, and always looking up what mats you need, etc is huge waste of precious time.
which again has nothing to do with skill.
your hello kitty references are stupid.

Quote:
You might need to stick to WoW. They just give you everything there and no thinking is involved. Most of the major crafting items are found here

yes thats what i said, you must do crafting to get anything else than boots. and not all weps are available at NPCs either, so you must craft those too.

Quote:
THERE'S A GIANT FREAKING ROAD WITH NO MOBS THAT AGGRO THAT LEADS RIGHT TO EVERY MAJOR POINT IN THE GAME!!! WHAT DO YOU WANT?

i went to some other maps, i dont think they had any cities in them.
was probably those.
cause there's paths to other maps, that dont go through safe roads.

Quote:
Failure will not be rewarded. Read hello kitty statement above

you mean failure as in not completing the quest in time?
you do know that ppl crash alot in beta, and if you do, you auto fail quest too?

Quote:
Square Enix = skill above all. I love it.

I like games that require tactics etc too.
i have yet to see any tactics in FFXIV. you just mash skills like any MMO.
FFXIV isnt challanging in anything else than patience. which has nothing to do with skill.

Quote:
You really have put no effort into this. Basic problems are stopping you that everyone else seems to be figuring out. I'm not tryin to be mean with this... but really, maybe not the game for you.

You're right, its not a game for me, thats why i said the only things i like about the game is the graphics. the rest sux :)
i did figure out most of the stuff, with some help here and there. It just took longer than in any other game i ever played before.
And thnx for pointing out that there's no recipies, you need to compile it all yourself. That was the only problem i had really. i tried looking everywhere for recipies to craft.
Btw, its not *skill* or *challanging* to compile it yourself. just retarded, and time consuming, and serves not much of a purpose.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 1:58am by radacci

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 2:01am by radacci
#158zoltanrs, Posted: Sep 09 2010 at 1:46 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) 1. MY hello kitty references are pretty sweet.
#159 Sep 09 2010 at 2:40 AM Rating: Decent
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its lancer throwing wep yes.
and no i wasnt in combat :)

i seen plenty of caves, all were empty.

i got the gist of crafting now, and now that i know, i think its even more retarded :)
im doing leatherworking, but all of them need dyed leathers and ****, where's the dyes? i checked 10 different stores, and no dyes. no iron rivets, no iron spikes, no copper bla bla, do i need to go to other towns to get those? that'd be neat. spend hours cruising around the world to get mats to make lv 5ish gloves.
i failed to craft ALOT too, why's that?

i have never played FFXI and never seen anyone play it, or even seen clips of anyone playing it. so i dont know anything about those recipies, so it doesnt help anything :p

i dont have any friends that wanna play the game, since i pointed out plenty of flaws ^^
and im not gonna buy it anyways. i'll just go around explore, or something while beta lasts.

well sure i guess. but 1-10sec delays make it hard to do anything.
sometimes it takes 5sec to use a skill, then i dont even see the animation, so i dont even know if i performed the skill or not. Well i know, since TP guage go up, and ATB go down, thats the only indicator i did anything :)
And i walk past hostile mobs, and get hit 10sec later
Nothing is enjoyable with this kind of delay :)
Which is why i guess i should try the PS3 version at least.
But im probably playing Tera instead then. we'll see.
#160ShonaSeraph, Posted: Sep 09 2010 at 4:15 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Radacci, I have to say, most of your problems stem from being lazy or incompetent, or a combo of both. I can hardly wait for the 22nd so the plethora of idiots just here to play a free beta will be gone. You and your idiotic friends can go back to playing FPS's or WoW or whatever you came from. The problems you're bringing up that are actually reasonable will more than likely be rectified in 2 weeks, at which time I'll be overjoyed not having to read anymore whiny UI lag posts.
#161 Sep 09 2010 at 4:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Is the game really that bad?

Ask me in October when I start paying the monthly fee....
#162 Sep 09 2010 at 4:58 AM Rating: Good
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This game needs:

1. Less time spent walking. There are enough timesinks, thanks.
2. Removal of anima system.
3. Removal of stat re-allocation cooldown.
4. It's UI redesigned to be less bloated, more customizable, and more player-friendly. I could really rant about this one.
5. In-game recipe book/log.
6. Map function for local guildleves, like with normal quests.
7. A better method of gauging an enemy's difficulty.
8. The beginning quest chain needs to be scrapped. They should redo it so that the new player doesn't feel like logging out before it's done (it sucks).
9. Incentive for healing. Healers get punished for healing currently... they get no class experience for doing it.

I can't think of anything else at the moment, but I'm sure if I played for an hour I would make a list twice the size.
#163 Sep 09 2010 at 6:08 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
No MMO I know of runs the UI off the server. It's just an extremely inefficient way of doing things and we can see the results clear as day...the UI is painful to navigate in part because the layout is trash and in part because of the delay between selecting one option and having the next nested menu pop up.

I guess the point is that nobody should really be basing their interest in the game on the UI lag. The UI layout, by all means. But the lag is something that SE needs to address and I can't imagine they would think for even a minute that it's okay the way it is.


I certainly hope it is true what you are saying. But past experience in playing OB for other games, the lag stayed when the game was released. Even though everyone was saying "it is OB, they are stress testing the servers". And yes I agree, the menu structure is outdated and should not be in a game nowadays, but if you adept it should not be that big of a problem.

Not that I have a problem with the patcher, I can work around it. But updating FFXI was a pain and very slow, this is still an issue in FFXIV. Just saying history repeats itself.

I have an hard time to believe SE (who does not communicate at all) will implement a miracle patch, where the UI lag is completely gone. Hope I am wrong though.

Quote:
8. The beginning quest chain needs to be scrapped. They should redo it so that the new player doesn't feel like logging out before it's done (it sucks).


Maybe I am the only one, but I really liked it, a lot :)

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 8:10am by Shoomy
#164 Sep 09 2010 at 6:11 AM Rating: Decent
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some ppl just blowing the matter out of proportion.the game is great.just some issue can be improved.i just started open beta yesterday and is enjoying it atm.

just the running is a bit boring haha.i wish they consider autowalk to selected area in map but i admit i am lazy ^^
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#165 Sep 09 2010 at 6:30 AM Rating: Good
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Takako wrote:
some ppl just blowing the matter out of proportion.the game is great.just some issue can be improved.i just started open beta yesterday and is enjoying it atm.

just the running is a bit boring haha.i wish they consider autowalk to selected area in map but i admit i am lazy ^^


Some people enjoy the horrid UI, lag, and utter lack of content in FFXIV. Others enjoy being smashed in the nuts with a sledgehammer.

That doesn't mean either group of people are sane.
#166 Sep 09 2010 at 7:00 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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zoltanrs wrote:
bsphil wrote:

zoltanrs wrote:
also beta etc etc.
No MMO beta has ever gone this poorly as far as I can remember. When the same problems carry over from the in-house testing into an alpha release, beta #1, beta #2, beta #3, open beta... how far are you going to let it slide?

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 11:13pm by bsphil


You must not have been in the AOC or Warhammer Betas. LOTRO was probably the only game out of about 15 I've beta'd that didn't do poorly throughout. When you stress test a server... Lag happens ^^
The lag has been there since day 1 of the alpha and has never disappeared. It's not due to a "stress test", it's just sh*tty programming.

zoltanrs wrote:
bsphil wrote:
zoltanrs wrote:
Square Enix = skill above all. I love it.
Again, figuring out how to navigate a terribly programmed game isn't an asset. You can have user-friendly interfaces for a difficult game, it just means that the programmers know what the **** they're doing. Being thrilled to eat all the sh*t SE shovels down your throat isn't skill, it's stamina for retardation.


How much better of an interface do u want than one you can control with a minus key arrow keys and simple macros and 1-0 I mean Really? The rest tho... It's clearly not your thing and you should discontinue. You're complaining that a shell of a game is a shell of a game... bit redundant eh? Maybe you should wait till the rest of the game is actually in... lol As for now its very clear, runs reasonably well, has some Beta type problems, and surplus exp sucks. That's about all
What's missing in the game is the storyline right now, as well as some higher zones. Adding both of those will do absolutely nothing to cure the awful gameplay. I already canceled my preorder for FFXIV about 2 weeks ago, for what it's worth.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 8:04am by bsphil
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#167ShonaSeraph, Posted: Sep 09 2010 at 7:24 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Amazingly, it's not worth anything...
#168 Sep 09 2010 at 7:25 AM Rating: Good
"No MMO beta has ever gone this poorly as far as I can remember. "

Clearly you never played the Anarchy Online beta (or well into retail). That game makes FFXIV beta look polished. Oh the bad memories of that game. *reflects*
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#169 Sep 09 2010 at 7:27 AM Rating: Decent
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
bsphil wrote:
I already canceled my preorder for FFXIV about 2 weeks ago, for what it's worth.


Amazingly, it's not worth anything...
In the grand scheme of things, nobody cares what you do.


What I can't understand is why people like this keep hanging around these forums. Do you really enjoy whining about everything FFXIV? Wouldn't you enjoy moving on and finding a game that better suits your play-style? I'm not trying to bash you, I'm just saying you might be a lot happier if you found a different game and ignored FFXIV.
#170 Sep 09 2010 at 7:34 AM Rating: Default
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Hydragyrum wrote:
ShonaSeraph wrote:
bsphil wrote:
I already canceled my preorder for FFXIV about 2 weeks ago, for what it's worth.


Amazingly, it's not worth anything...
In the grand scheme of things, nobody cares what you do.


What I can't understand is why people like this keep hanging around these forums. Do you really enjoy whining about everything FFXIV? Wouldn't you enjoy moving on and finding a game that better suits your play-style? I'm not trying to bash you, I'm just saying you might be a lot happier if you found a different game and ignored FFXIV.


ya really... why do people even post theirs dislikes and the fact they're cancelling their pre-orders as if anyone cares. I know I certainly don't. And I surely have better things to do than post on a forum for a game I'm not playing...
But I guess their are 'special' people in this world.
Am I supposed to be shocked? Like OMG 'person X' cancelled their pre-order... holy crap the world is gonna end, they dislike an unfinished version of a game... too many whiners nowadays. I wish they would just go do something else and stop cluttering the boards with their dislikes and pointless opinions on everything.
Some people need a "you're not a special snowflake and nodody cares what you think" tattoo stamped on their forehead.
#171 Sep 09 2010 at 7:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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ShonaSeraph wrote:

Some people need a "you're not a special snowflake and nodody cares what you think" tattoo stamped on their forehead.


Speaking of which....

In any case, a game like this only ever improves if people give voice to their concerns and issues. Pretending everything's perfect will accomplish nothing. If you'd like to refute what someone is saying, by all means have a discussion on it. If you think bsphil is stark raving mad in everything he says (btw he's one of the most logical people here at the moment.. and that's saying something), then have a discussion.

This whole attitude of "love it or gtfo" is every bit as counter-productive as the extreme opposite view of "this is the worst thing since the holocaust." Neither position is maintainable as both positions completely exclude any possibility of compromise.

For instance, please tell me you understand our complaint about the UI input lag?
Please tell me you understand our complaints about the fatigue system (I don't care what they name it, it's fatigue)?

On the opposite side of the coin, I'll freely admit to loving the way the game looks and sounds, the graphics and music are gorgeous. I also like what I've seen of the story so far, it's interesting and engaging, just what I've come to expect from a Final Fantasy game.

your turn
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#172 Sep 09 2010 at 7:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
For instance, please tell me you understand our complaint about the UI input lag?
Please tell me you understand our complaints about the fatigue system (I don't care what they name it, it's fatigue)?


Regarding UI lag, no I don't understand your complaint. I don't have UI lag so maybe something is wrong on your end or you're on an extremely congested server. We all knew the system requirements were going to be steep.

Regarding surplus/fatique/bonus: I'm already level 11 and I've only have about 10 hours of game play. If anything I appreciate a fatigue system that will prevent me from hitting level cap in a month. I enjoy the journey, as much or more than the destination.
#173 Sep 09 2010 at 7:54 AM Rating: Default
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
ShonaSeraph wrote:

Some people need a "you're not a special snowflake and nodody cares what you think" tattoo stamped on their forehead.


Speaking of which....

In any case, a game like this only ever improves if people give voice to their concerns and issues. Pretending everything's perfect will accomplish nothing. If you'd like to refute what someone is saying, by all means have a discussion on it. If you think bsphil is stark raving mad in everything he says (btw he's one of the most logical people here at the moment.. and that's saying something), then have a discussion.

This whole attitude of "love it or gtfo" is every bit as counter-productive as the extreme opposite view of "this is the worst thing since the holocaust." Neither position is maintainable as both positions completely exclude any possibility of compromise.

For instance, please tell me you understand our complaint about the UI input lag?
Please tell me you understand our complaints about the fatigue system (I don't care what they name it, it's fatigue)?

On the opposite side of the coin, I'll freely admit to loving the way the game looks and sounds, the graphics and music are gorgeous. I also like what I've seen of the story so far, it's interesting and engaging, just what I've come to expect from a Final Fantasy game.

your turn


I'll make judgements on the final product in 2 weeks.
Whining about it now accomplishes nothing, I'd prefer to share info about the game.
SE doesn't care what anyone here posts, expressing your dislikes here is pointless. Do so in the proper venue or not at all.
I used to not mind Phil's posts, but lately he's just being a whiner.
As if anyone needs to read about how much he dislikes the game in every thread... WE GET IT! MOVE ON!

SE won't release a game with horrible UI lag. Thinking they will do so in this day and age is retarded. I'd prefer SE spend their time polishing the release version than spending resources and money polishing a beta version of the game to satisfy whiny babies that can't wait 2 more weeks.
#174 Sep 09 2010 at 8:04 AM Rating: Decent
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SE won't release a game with horrible UI lag. Thinking they will do so in this day and age is retarded.


So what are we beta testing, again...?
#175 Sep 09 2010 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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The game isn't bad per se, but it is a bit tedious and I have yet to find the challenge to it out side of crafting.

I truly don't understand how SE thinks their adventuring system is good. The Armory system is great. Actual adventuring is horrid. I can either grind (and solo is better than group, odd for a FF game) or do 8 GLs and group to do the same GLs with other people. That get's very boring, very fast. And I love to group!

Crafting at the moment is their best feature, and is the primary reason I will still buy the game. I love how important it is and I love that you discover recipes. The one real negative is that I don't remember what I discover. What? Wait you mean I don't have a journal to log my discoveries in? I don't need one because I can go to various sites out side of game to remember them? yeah....no. I don't like windowed mode and any time i tab out I crash. And then I just continue to ask why do I HAVE TO GO OUTSIDE OF THIS FANTASTIC WORLD TO LOOK FOR A RECIPE! Yeah...that get's a bit annoying.

Adventuring: D
Crafting: B
Overall: C-

I do hope people are right and that they are holding on to adventuring content. I hope they add a journal for recipes in game and I hope we aren't what i think we are. The paid beta for the PS3.
#176 Sep 09 2010 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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Eugenitor wrote:
Quote:
SE won't release a game with horrible UI lag. Thinking they will do so in this day and age is retarded.


So what are we beta testing, again...?


What he means is that SE may already have a fix planned for launch, but just hasn't bothered to apply it to the open beta for whatever reason. It's not uncommon for developers to have a "developer client" which is totally separate from the beta client.
#177 Sep 09 2010 at 8:19 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Hydragyrum wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
For instance, please tell me you understand our complaint about the UI input lag?
Please tell me you understand our complaints about the fatigue system (I don't care what they name it, it's fatigue)?


Regarding UI lag, no I don't understand your complaint. I don't have UI lag so maybe something is wrong on your end or you're on an extremely congested server. We all knew the system requirements were going to be steep.

Regarding surplus/fatique/bonus: I'm already level 11 and I've only have about 10 hours of game play. If anything I appreciate a fatigue system that will prevent me from hitting level cap in a month. I enjoy the journey, as much or more than the destination.
Took me a year to get my first 75 in FFXI, because I spent a lot of time getting other things done (storyline missions, quests, fame, farming, crafting, improving my gear, and so on). My next 7 75s came increasingly quickly due to the fact that I had already done the bulk of the storyline and all of the other basic non-exp activity. The point being, why create a system to discourage leveling (even just in bursts, not from 1 to the cap), when people who want to enjoy what the rest of the game has to offer are going to be doing that naturally? It's only going to severely limit people down the road who want to continue to take other classes up to the cap after having done the currently available content.

ShonaSeraph wrote:
I'll make judgements on the final product in 2 weeks.
Whining about it now accomplishes nothing, I'd prefer to share info about the game.
SE doesn't care what anyone here posts, expressing your dislikes here is pointless. Do so in the proper venue or not at all.
I used to not mind Phil's posts, but lately he's just being a whiner.
As if anyone needs to read about how much he dislikes the game in every thread... WE GET IT! MOVE ON!

SE won't release a game with horrible UI lag. Thinking they will do so in this day and age is retarded. I'd prefer SE spend their time polishing the release version than spending resources and money polishing a beta version of the game to satisfy whiny babies that can't wait 2 more weeks.
People added in the open beta and phase 3 of the closed beta are not allowed to "do so in the proper venue". They are not allowed access to the official beta forums.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 9:21am by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#178EmotionBlues, Posted: Sep 09 2010 at 8:23 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It was like this in FFXI and it was fine. Sure there was an NPC there who gave you a very unorganized list, but still it wasn't neccesary.
#179 Sep 09 2010 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
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Hydragyrum wrote:
It's not uncommon for developers to have a "developer client" which is totally separate from the beta client.


Separate, yes, but how much different can it be? Why would any programmer code stuff specially for the beta? There seems to be an increasing belief in the Release Fairy around here, that somehow the game we'll see at release will have none of the issues it does in OB with two weeks to go before release.

I'm not buying that for a minute.

And I'm not buying this game until I read that all the issues (100% of a CPU core gobbled up by nothing, UI lag, repeated crashes, can't alt-tab from fullscreen, laggy software mouse [because we know they have a hidden hardware one], etc) don't exist in release. Hear that loud wheeking? That's the sound of the preorderers being the non-preorderers' guinea pigs.

**** it. One of my friends intended to play this with me, and I even bought a new graphics card and new hard drive for it (well, okay, I needed the new HD anyway), and I really do want to play it in a good large linkshell with enough gathering/crafting classes and lots of mutual support, but there's no way in **** I'm going to buy this as it is now.

Because, like the topic suggests, it really is that bad.
#180 Sep 09 2010 at 8:24 AM Rating: Default
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800 posts
bsphil wrote:
Took me a year to get my first 75 in FFXI, because I spent a lot of time getting other things done (storyline missions, quests, fame, farming, crafting, improving my gear, and so on). My next 7 75s came increasingly quickly due to the fact that I had already done the bulk of the storyline and all of the other basic non-exp activity. The point being, why create a system to discourage leveling (even just in bursts, not from 1 to the cap), when people who want to enjoy what the rest of the game has to offer are going to be doing that naturally? It's only going to severely limit people down the road who want to continue to take other classes up to the cap after having done the currently available content.


Ok, so lets say there's no fatigue system and you rocket to the level cap in a month. There's little to no endgame content (nor should there be in a newly released MMO*). Is being bored at level 50 better than a fatigue system?

* Perhaps you think there should be end-game content, but I think it would serve a new MMO better for the devs to focus on lowbie content than to focus on end game content especially since level cap increases are inevitable, making level 50 "end-game" content obsolete.
#181 Sep 09 2010 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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941 posts
Quote:
Hear that loud wheeking? That's the sound of the preorderers being the non-preorderers' guinea pigs.



*wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek*


I'll let you know how it goes.

#182 Sep 09 2010 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
37 posts
Quote:
It was like this in FFXI and it was fine. Sure there was an NPC there who gave you a very unorganized list, but still it wasn't neccesary.

I had every Alchemy receipe memorized that mattered - I haven't played FFXI in months and could tell you how to turn Nuggets into Ore and then into Bars.. or every version of Silent Oil/Prism Powder/Rainbows, Arrowheads, etc..

Or you could always write them down on a piece of paper if you're that forgetful.


What? So they did it in a game that is 10 years old. It's not like I'm asking for a hand out. I just want to play the game. Writing down recipes outside of game or looking them up outside of the game is not playing the game.

Being forgetful has nothing to do with it. Nice snarky comment though. I have many more important things to remember than how many maple branches I need to make a maple hilt. The fact your defending the lack of a recipe book is laughable. Your fanboi is starting to show...

/shrug
#183 Sep 09 2010 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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1,061 posts
Quote:
Regarding UI lag, no I don't understand your complaint. I don't have UI lag so maybe something is wrong on your end or you're on an extremely congested server.


Everyone has UI lag if the UI is really being stored serverside at the moment. I'm sure you won't enjoy it trying to craft when retail comes out and it takes you like 3 minutes just to get into the actual synthesis portion of crafting.

Quote:
We all knew the system requirements were going to be steep.


On that, the system requirements are indeed pretty steep, but one, that has nothing to do with UI lag as that's determined by server load and the quality of your internet connection, not your processor, ram, etc. And two, the game is pretty poorly optimized so that you get a lot of crashes and when the game does run it runs like ****. I'm running a core i3 2.27 Ghz, 4 GB of DDR3RAM, and an ATI Radeon HD 5650 graphics card. I can run Mafia II, another fairly recent game, with no stuttering whatsoever...not maxed out, but medium settings. Game looks amazing, though, like twice as good as FFXIV. When I boot FFXIV, the game stutters so bad, and I have my settings almost as low as possible! This is even running around in non-populated areas! My system should be well capable of running the game smoothly, it's not top of the line but it's fairly close, and yet....this.

Quote:
Am I supposed to be shocked? Like OMG 'person X' cancelled their pre-order... holy crap the world is gonna end, they dislike an unfinished version of a game... too many whiners nowadays. I wish they would just go do something else and stop cluttering the boards with their dislikes and pointless opinions on everything.


I do hope you remember this when you have a complaint 1-2 years or longer down the line. An MMO isn't finished until the servers shut down, so by your logic any time anyone has a complaint or dislike about the game they're a whiner. Please remember this.
#184 Sep 09 2010 at 9:33 AM Rating: Excellent
EmotionBlues wrote:
Quote:
Crafting at the moment is their best feature, and is the primary reason I will still buy the game. I love how important it is and I love that you discover recipes. The one real negative is that I don't remember what I discover. What? Wait you mean I don't have a journal to log my discoveries in?


It was like this in FFXI and it was fine. Sure there was an NPC there who gave you a very unorganized list, but still it wasn't neccesary.

I had every Alchemy receipe memorized that mattered - I haven't played FFXI in months and could tell you how to turn Nuggets into Ore and then into Bars.. or every version of Silent Oil/Prism Powder/Rainbows, Arrowheads, etc..

Or you could always write them down on a piece of paper if you're that forgetful.


I'm looking at a database page right now listing a total of 91 blacksmithing recipes...and it only goes up to iron, which would put it somewhere in the neighborhood of XI's 20-30 skill range, if I'm not mistaken. Don't compare XIV's crafting to XI like being able to memorize things in XI means the system in XIV is okay. There's a TON more in XIV on account of so many things requiring components made out of components made out of raw materials made out of corn. Nobody is going to be memorizing the full range of recipes for any one crafting class, much less all of them. And having to write them down? Stupid. You're sitting at a computer FFS...under what circumstances should you have to compile a hand written list of anything?
#185 Sep 09 2010 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
Sage
*
130 posts
Quote:
Regarding UI lag, no I don't understand your complaint. I don't have UI lag so maybe something is wrong on your end or you're on an extremely congested server.
Quote:
Everyone has UI lag if the UI is really being stored serverside at the moment. I'm sure you won't enjoy it trying to craft when retail comes out and it takes you like 3 minutes just to get into the actual synthesis portion of crafting.


Don't even try to convince him/her. He/she seems to be the only one who does not have UI lag :s Either he/she is denying the truth or we are all lying about it.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 12:01pm by Shoomy
#186 Sep 09 2010 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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941 posts
Quote:
I'm looking at a database page right now listing a total of 91 blacksmithing recipes...and it only goes up to iron, which would put it somewhere in the neighborhood of XI's 20-30 skill range, if I'm not mistaken. Don't compare XIV's crafting to XI like being able to memorize things in XI means the system in XIV is okay. There's a TON more in XIV on account of so many things requiring components made out of components made out of raw materials made out of corn. Nobody is going to be memorizing the full range of recipes for any one crafting class, much less all of them. And having to write them down? Stupid. You're sitting at a computer FFS...under what circumstances should you have to compile a hand written list of anything?


I suppose I'll agree with you about volume, but that's not that point I was making.

You're going to remember things through repitition no matter if you want to remember them or not. I wasn't saying I was a wealth of knowledge, I was pointing out I remember all this crap because I did every synth (not really, but... really) hundreds of times. Thousands of times for some synths, even.

I'm not AGAINST a means of in-game recording, I was saying something more along the lines of: "You're going to do it so much you're going to end up remembering them all anyway."

I think an NPC helper would be nice again. I don't think an entire book of everything is neccesary - nor do I think it's a bad thing either. Just because someone doesn't think something is a 100% neccesity doesn't mean they think it's horrible, too.

And make whatever comment you please about writing things down, for some people it's a practice that serves them well in all types of things. I'm at work at a PC right now in fact - and my desk is plastered with paper and stickynotes for reminders, lists and assignments. That's just me - and I just made a suggestion. Heaven forbid.

And FYI: There's over 3,400 receipes in FFXI - which is at least 430+ recepies for each class. 91 is not a lot. I'm 100% certain that we don't even know half of everything thus far - but the point still stands.
#187 Sep 09 2010 at 10:03 AM Rating: Decent
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1,416 posts
mogwaimon wrote:
Quote:
Regarding UI lag, no I don't understand your complaint. I don't have UI lag so maybe something is wrong on your end or you're on an extremely congested server.


Everyone has UI lag if the UI is really being stored serverside at the moment. I'm sure you won't enjoy it trying to craft when retail comes out and it takes you like 3 minutes just to get into the actual synthesis portion of crafting.

Quote:
We all knew the system requirements were going to be steep.


On that, the system requirements are indeed pretty steep, but one, that has nothing to do with UI lag as that's determined by server load and the quality of your internet connection, not your processor, ram, etc. And two, the game is pretty poorly optimized so that you get a lot of crashes and when the game does run it runs like sh*t. I'm running a core i3 2.27 Ghz, 4 GB of DDR3RAM, and an ATI Radeon HD 5650 graphics card. I can run Mafia II, another fairly recent game, with no stuttering whatsoever...not maxed out, but medium settings. Game looks amazing, though, like twice as good as FFXIV. When I boot FFXIV, the game stutters so bad, and I have my settings almost as low as possible! This is even running around in non-populated areas! My system should be well capable of running the game smoothly, it's not top of the line but it's fairly close, and yet....this.

Quote:
Am I supposed to be shocked? Like OMG 'person X' cancelled their pre-order... holy crap the world is gonna end, they dislike an unfinished version of a game... too many whiners nowadays. I wish they would just go do something else and stop cluttering the boards with their dislikes and pointless opinions on everything.


I do hope you remember this when you have a complaint 1-2 years or longer down the line. An MMO isn't finished until the servers shut down, so by your logic any time anyone has a complaint or dislike about the game they're a whiner. Please remember this.


I'm willing to bet your stuttering is coming from the fact that your i3 isn't really a good cpu for this game.
Also, the 5650 you have would probably be better if you had an i7. Secondly, you may want to upgrade that 5650 to make up for your cpu. I'd upgrade both if i were you. I'm not trying start an argument or anything, just trying to help. :)
Here are the recommended specs to run FF XIV. People really should strive to meet these specs, if they want to play this game with decent settings.

Operating System Windows 7 32bit / 64bit 2
CPU Intel Core i7 (2.66 GHz) or higher
RAM 4GB or more
HDD/SDD Space Installation: 15GB or more ; Download: Space on the hard drive where My Documents is located should be 6GB or more
Graphics Card NVIDIA GeForce GTX460 or better with VRAM 768MB or more

For ATI cards, anything above Radeon HD 5770 will perform well. Since, crossfired cards do not kick in when in windowed modes, the 5970 will not perform as well as the 5870 because it is two cards (5870) in one. For optimal ffxiv performance, a Radeon HD 5870 would be sufficient. A vaporx version will run twice as cool, and with less noise, but is at least an extra $100.
Sound Card DirectSound compatible sound card (DirectX 9.0c or higher)
Internet Connection Broadband internet connection or higher
Screen Resolution 1280 x 720 or higher; 32-bit
DirectX DirectX 9.0c
Others Mouse, Keyboard, and Gamepad
____________________________

#188 Sep 09 2010 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
45 posts
Quote:
Secondly, you may want to upgrade that 5650 to make up for your cpu.


Yeah, except for the part where it doesn't work that way at all.
#189 Sep 09 2010 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Hydragyrum wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Took me a year to get my first 75 in FFXI, because I spent a lot of time getting other things done (storyline missions, quests, fame, farming, crafting, improving my gear, and so on). My next 7 75s came increasingly quickly due to the fact that I had already done the bulk of the storyline and all of the other basic non-exp activity. The point being, why create a system to discourage leveling (even just in bursts, not from 1 to the cap), when people who want to enjoy what the rest of the game has to offer are going to be doing that naturally? It's only going to severely limit people down the road who want to continue to take other classes up to the cap after having done the currently available content.


Ok, so lets say there's no fatigue system and you rocket to the level cap in a month. There's little to no endgame content (nor should there be in a newly released MMO*). Is being bored at level 50 better than a fatigue system?

* Perhaps you think there should be end-game content, but I think it would serve a new MMO better for the devs to focus on lowbie content than to focus on end game content especially since level cap increases are inevitable, making level 50 "end-game" content obsolete.
Again, you're assuming that people will want to do that, and that the percentage of people who are going to do it is going to be significantly large. When new jobs came out in FFXI, very few people rocketed to 75 after their release, and that was only because they had already been playing the game for a long time and had already completed the non-exp content, had subjobs already leveled, had already acquired valuable gear, etc. You're taking a very minor issue and using it as the basis for restricting the speed of the entire game. So what if a couple people rocket to the level cap as fast as they possibly can? The vast majority of people will be taking their time without any sort of restriction to force them to.

Teneleven wrote:
I'm willing to bet your stuttering is coming from the fact that your i3 isn't really a good cpu for this game.
Completely missing the point. Lesser system requirements are able to run better looking games at high framerates. We know the recommended equipment for the game, the point is (and I'll put this on a new line to really make it stand out):

For a game of FFXIV's graphical quality, the system requirements are unnecessarily high due to poor programming.




Edited, Sep 9th 2010 11:32am by bsphil
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#191 Sep 09 2010 at 10:52 AM Rating: Decent
**
782 posts
Quote:
e are the Introverted weebo otakus. Wapanese Americans


Your bigoted racism is showing...
#193 Sep 09 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
**
782 posts
Quote:
UR MADNESS IS SHOWING BRAH


huh?

Quote:
Also otaku,wapanese, and Weebo are not a race lo


******, Jew, and **** aren't races either.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 11:58am by windexy
#194 Sep 09 2010 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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1,422 posts
EDIT: No need for this anymore now - the failtroll that this was in response to has presumably received a BANNED-aid for all the stupid he was hemorrhaging all over the forum.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 1:18pm by RajiFarlander
#196 Sep 09 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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800 posts
Shoomy wrote:
Quote:
Regarding UI lag, no I don't understand your complaint. I don't have UI lag so maybe something is wrong on your end or you're on an extremely congested server.
Quote:
Everyone has UI lag if the UI is really being stored serverside at the moment. I'm sure you won't enjoy it trying to craft when retail comes out and it takes you like 3 minutes just to get into the actual synthesis portion of crafting.


Don't even try to convince him/her. He/she seems to be the only one who does not have UI lag :s Either he/she is denying the truth or we are all lying about it.


Call me delusional then, but I know I'd rather be delusional and having fun than be "right" and playing a game I hate. Games are about having fun, right?
#197 Sep 09 2010 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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1,339 posts
Hydragyrum wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Took me a year to get my first 75 in FFXI, because I spent a lot of time getting other things done (storyline missions, quests, fame, farming, crafting, improving my gear, and so on). My next 7 75s came increasingly quickly due to the fact that I had already done the bulk of the storyline and all of the other basic non-exp activity. The point being, why create a system to discourage leveling (even just in bursts, not from 1 to the cap), when people who want to enjoy what the rest of the game has to offer are going to be doing that naturally? It's only going to severely limit people down the road who want to continue to take other classes up to the cap after having done the currently available content.


Ok, so lets say there's no fatigue system and you rocket to the level cap in a month. There's little to no endgame content (nor should there be in a newly released MMO*). Is being bored at level 50 better than a fatigue system?

* Perhaps you think there should be end-game content, but I think it would serve a new MMO better for the devs to focus on lowbie content than to focus on end game content especially since level cap increases are inevitable, making level 50 "end-game" content obsolete.


That is the most retarded statement I have ever heard from someone on the ZAM boards, and *that's* saying something. So, you're essentially saying there should *NEVER* be endgame content because level caps *MIGHT* be raised at some future point in time. I'm seriously in awe of the amount of utter stupidity that you just spewed. It's mind boggling, pitifully saddening.

The fatigue system is only in place to cover SE's lazy and slow development pace. It's fine though; the fanboys will be happen when 6-8 months after release they put out some outdoor HNMs with 21-48 respawn timers that can drop nothing yet again. They aren't even making games anymore and don't bother to hide it; they know people will be stupid enough to say they enjoy being told when and how to play a game.

The fact of the matter is that MMORPGs are no longer new. There's a ton of options on the market, especially since the release of WoW. Despite the server stability that plagued WoW (which were due to massive amounts of interest in the game and not really a fault of the game itself), it launched fairly solid and fleshed out for the leveling journey. However, it set the bar for future launch of MMOs when it heralded not only intro raids (Stratholme, Scholomance, as well as Blackrock Spire) but also two different true endgame dungeons (even if one was just a one boss encounter). You can like it or hate it and foam at the mouth like a mouth breathing imbecile, but it is impossible to deny that WoW has helped to shape the future of the MMO genre for the better (despite all the wrong things it continues to do). A company trying to launch an MMO post-WoW that blatantly shows only interest in money (not in making a good product) and people have continually shown that they're not longer going to settle for less.

Every single MMO past that point that launched with only barebone, halfassed leveling content has struggled to hold onto 100K subscribers to stay afloat.

FFXIV will be no different, fanbase or not.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 1:14pm by StrijderVechter
#198 Sep 09 2010 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
18 posts
Yes it is. When your brand new shiny MMO is outclassed and featured by its decade old predecessor its pretty bad.

As someone who loved FFXI Im severely dissapointed in FFXIV. No innovation, no improvements (aside from graphics), and worst of all no apparent care from SE to change it.

For all the blind fools who spout "Its only open beta!", the game isnt going to change that much (at least within the first couple of months).

I fully expect to revist FFXIV sometime in 2011 but as of now its not worth buying, I think FFXI will just have to hold me over until then.
#199 Sep 09 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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800 posts
StrijderVechter wrote:
That is the most retarded statement I have ever heard from someone on the ZAM boards, and *that's* saying something. So, you're essentially saying there should *NEVER* be endgame content because level caps *MIGHT* be raised at some future point in time. I'm seriously in awe of the amount of utter stupidity that you just spewed. It's mind boggling, pitifully saddening.


That's not what I said at all, don't put words in my mouth. I said a NEW MMO shouldn't necessarily have end game content at RELEASE because there will be UPDATES to fill in that content later. On release day how many people will be at end game? 0. How many will be in the lowbie areas? 100%. Why sacrifice lowbie content to generate end game content at release?

And please, enough with the flaming already. It's tiring.
#200 Sep 09 2010 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
**
800 posts
tennisfreak wrote:
Yes it is. When your brand new shiny MMO is outclassed and featured by its decade old predecessor its pretty bad.

As someone who loved FFXI Im severely dissapointed in FFXIV. No innovation, no improvements (aside from graphics), and worst of all no apparent care from SE to change it.

For all the blind fools who spout "Its only open beta!", the game isnt going to change that much (at least within the first couple of months).

I fully expect to revist FFXIV sometime in 2011 but as of now its not worth buying, I think FFXI will just have to hold me over until then.


Really? You're surprised that a 10 year old game has more features than a game that hasn't even been released yet? If you want a content rich game, play a mature MMO. If you want something new, play a new MMO. Don't expect to have your cake and eat it too.
#201 Sep 09 2010 at 11:21 AM Rating: Default
5 posts
I think the reason a lot of people are hating on it is because its a different kind of MMO. It's not WOW, its not AION, its not a... for lack of a better word a "twitch" MMO. It has a lot going for it, and it is an extremely different game than any other MMO that I've ever played.

This is also a western market. You know how western gamers are.

Blow **** up.
**** **** up.
Level fast.
Get gear over night.
Hurr then some durr.

And if they have to work for anything they lose interest. Its going to be a niche game for sure.
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