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#202 Sep 09 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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SolidMack wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Again putting words in my mouth. Have you actually read anything I've said or are you just seeing me not like the game as it exists right now and instantly assume I'm demanding perfection and years worth of content by the 22nd?

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 3:00pm by bsphil


Let me quote you again, and I'll use bold to make things stand out so you don't miss it:

Quote:

I have strong doubts. That's why I canceled my preorder. Maybe 6 months down the road they'll have the game adjusted and fixed to a point where it's a lot more fun to play. I still am rooting for its success. I want it to be fun and enthralling. I wish I wanted to play the game. From what I've seen so far, they just don't have it yet.


...and you seem to contradict yourself quite a bit, you see the italicized, bolded part:

Quote:
I hope FFXIV gets horrible reviews. I'd be very pleased to see the game die as a horrible failure within a year of release.


I don't know what to say to you anymore.

Oenus summed it up really:

Quote:

"I want to see the game succeed"
"I can't wait till it dies"
"I want to see it succeed"
"The game is not properly coded"
"I'm not going to buy a product with errors and you shouldn't either"
I'll take that as "I didn't actually read what you said". Feel free to go back and check the posts in their entirety again.

lol jk that won't happen
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#203 Sep 09 2010 at 2:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, I think Phil's comments can be summed up a little better.

What he wants, and this would be the best thing to happen really, is for SE to get absolutely dismal immediate sales.

This would give them absolutely no choice but to either have the game die, or fix/replace the catastrophe that is Rapture (Crystal Tools).

Then once they've fixed what the **** is utterly broken with the game, it can be a success.
#204 Sep 09 2010 at 2:19 PM Rating: Decent
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"Deep down inside, I desperately want to enjoy this game/product/girl/job/anything, but it's not up to my standards"

Do I,

A. Stop using the product/break up with the girl/quit the job and constantly complain/argue that changes must be made before I will come back

B. Move on and find another game/product/job/girl that I like

C. Accept the flaws for now, trusting they will change over time and look for things to like about it instead of focusing on the negatives

Yes, we understand how badly hurt you are that the game of your dreams isn't living up to your expectations. If it were me, I would pick B or C, because it would save me a lot of time and headache.

Hate to say it, but if you don't like it, someone else will. Getting to the point where you're trying to convince someone else not to like it because it didn't "do it for you" is retarded.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 4:29pm by Oenos
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#205 Sep 09 2010 at 2:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Oenos,

I think you need a hug. You don't seem like a very nice person. I'm glad you at least have FF14 to hold onto.
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#206 Sep 09 2010 at 2:30 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
"Deep down inside, I desperately want to enjoy this game/product/girl/job/anything, but it's not up to my standards"

Do I,

A. Stop using the product/break up with the girl/quit the job and constantly complain/argue that changes must be made before I will come back

B. Move on and find another game/product/job/girl that I like

C. Accept the flaws for now, trusting they will change over time and look for things to like about it whether than focusing on the negatives

Yes, we understand how badly hurt you are that the game of your dreams isn't living up to your expectations. If it were me, I would pick B or C, because it would save me a lot of time and headache.


So when your friend opens a new restaurant, you obviously want him to succeed. He's your friend, after all. The food he serves is great, but the waitstaff is slow and are not friendly to the point that eating there is an unpleasant experience.

Do you:

A) Stop going there and complain to your friend, letting him know what's wrong and what changes must be made before it's a tolerable restaurant,

B) Abandon him and find another, better restaurant,

or C) "Accept" the flaws in his restaurant and trust that it will get better...

Well, obviously you wild pick C, despite the fact that C is absolutely the worst option here because while he'll be making money off you, you're unlikely to take part in his future endeavors. He might succeed now, but later he'll suffer. You however, are suffering now and are supposed to be enjoying the experience. B would harm him now, but let him know quickly that something is amiss, and he might make changes. It's probably stupid of you to "just leave" without telling him, though. A, on the other hand, lets him know right away and allows him to make changes quickly. The worst part, of course, is that it isn't the meals themselves; people love them and would love to come in and eat the food, but the staff is intolerable; he knows you still want to be there with option A, and that simple changes will keep you there, and probably many other people, too, who instead picked option B or are picking option C.

B in your example is not an appropriate option if you see potential. Why would you just walk away... and seriously, advocating that people leave a product cold like that? Are you sure you don't want it to fail? C in your example is also stupid. You're not doing SE any favors by staying and "hoping." You're just setting yourself up for bitterness and wasting your time.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 4:32pm by JDCyran

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 4:33pm by JDCyran
#207 Sep 09 2010 at 2:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
That's an interesting attitude. You apparently like the game and want to play, but it exploding apparently wouldn't bother you? Somehow, I don't think you're doing SE any favors by arguing in their court.


Actually you're supposed to read that in the context I put it in...Bsphil said if the game bombs maybe SE will wake up and make it a better product so I said, "no, because if the game bombs then it bombs - nothing will be getting fixed then"..

Quote:
Somehow, I don't think telling people their complaints are minute is going to matter when it already makes them not want to play. Nevermind the fact that, if they're minute, they're probably also easily fixed, yet have not been.


Has the game been released yet? I said complain if these problems are still there at release; patience is a virtue.

Quote:
But the same people defending it 100 times over is apparently great. Or something. This is just an example of you not liking to hear things you don't like. If you don't want to hear 100 times the complaints, don't respond 100 times.


In this entire thread I've said *once* "the game is going to succeed"...i'm not defending the game "a 100 times over", I'm telling the naysayer to take a break, take a breath and wait for the release - I see the problems they're complaining about but honestly you guys are just fuc*in annoying. People come to a game forum to discuss a game they enjoy, and then there's your type who have nothing but negative things to say about the game. The truth is, the people who enjoy the game see the flaws in it but the people complaining about it exaggerate everything 10 fold and *everything* is bad about the game....that to me is trolling, not constructive.

Quote:
Stating a sentence with a lie never makes it something someone will listen to.


...if its a lie, prove it wrong then; wait you can't, cuz the **** game hasn't even released yet.

Quote:
Is it that you want less people to play so SE gets less money and can update less often, or are you just an idiot? Because, see, if you liked the game, perhaps you'd want issues that make fewer people want to play addressed right away so the game could be more robust in the long run. I mean, god forbid they actually make the UI more friendly and keep the players who have a problem with it.


Who said I don't want the UI more user friendly, did I say that? I don't remember saying this...you know what, I'll make this short....yes, I'm an idiot.

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However, I think is more a case of you just being irritated that people don't like something you like. How dare they criticize your cherished game! How DARE they want to like it and play it, too, and be concerned that in its current state, it's not good enough! Those... those... those uncultured morons!


Easy Oprah - the only one that looks like an moron right now is you. I was talking specifically to bsphil with most of my points, and you decided I was generalizing. What I had to say to him holds and for some reason you're getting all offended. Again I'll say this thread has reached 4 pages and the other thread on these boards has reached 7 pages and this is the first time I decided to indulge you guys' little orgy - maybe its you who is getting irritated because I have something to say that doesn't coincide with what you have to say?

Quote:

I don't think anyone here is arguing that trying something new is bad, unless you think making a heinous, nested menu system, an interface that is laggy for most people, poor program coding and a distinct lack of communication is "trying something new."


unless you programmed the game yourself you have no grounds to comment on that, and as far as communication goes SE has been keeping us more up to date than before...if they have nothing to say should they just pop up and say "hi" to us every now and then? laggy interface will most likely be gone at release and as for nested menus, I agree (and have agreed before which you would've known had you read anything instead of jumping all over me with nothing but insults) that its a mess and I hope they make it easier to work with but considering this game is also being released on a console I wouldn't expect something too drastic.



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#208 Sep 09 2010 at 2:37 PM Rating: Decent
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JDCyran wrote:
Quote:
"Deep down inside, I desperately want to enjoy this game/product/girl/job/anything, but it's not up to my standards"

Do I,

A. Stop using the product/break up with the girl/quit the job and constantly complain/argue that changes must be made before I will come back

B. Move on and find another game/product/job/girl that I like

C. Accept the flaws for now, trusting they will change over time and look for things to like about it whether than focusing on the negatives

Yes, we understand how badly hurt you are that the game of your dreams isn't living up to your expectations. If it were me, I would pick B or C, because it would save me a lot of time and headache.


So when your friend opens a new restaurant, you obviously want him to succeed. He's your friend, after all. The food he serves is great, but the waitstaff is slow and are not friendly to the point that eating there is an unpleasant experience.

Do you:

A) Stop going there and complain to your friend, letting him know what's wrong and what changes must be made before it's a tolerable restaurant,

B) Abandon him and find another, better restaurant,

or C) "Accept" the flaws in his restaurant and trust that it will get better...

Well, obviously you wild pick C, despite the fact that C is absolutely the worst option here because while he'll be making money off you, you're unlikely to take part in his future endeavors. He might succeed now, but later he'll suffer. You however, are suffering now and are supposed to be enjoying the experience. B would harm him now, but let him know quickly that something is amiss, and he might make changes. It's probably stupid of you to "just leave" without telling him, though. A, on the other hand, lets him know right away and allows him to make changes quickly. The worst part, of course, is that it isn't the meals themselves; people love them and would love to come in and eat the food, but the staff is intolerable; he knows you still want to be there with option A, and that simple changes will keep you there, and probably many other people, too, who instead picked option B or are picking option C.

B in your example is not an appropriate option if you see potential. Why would you just walk away... and seriously, advocating that people leave a product cold like that? Are you sure you don't want it to fail? C in your example is also stupid. You're not doing SE any favors by staying and "hoping." You're just setting yourself up for bitterness and wasting your time.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 4:32pm by JDCyran

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 4:33pm by JDCyran


Well if SE is your friend, your example applies. To me, they are selling a product and I am buying. Either I am going to like the product or not. If I don't like it, I am not going to badger the people who DO like it. I am not going to sit back and try to make the product better and tell them to fix it if I don't even have any intention of playing it. I am not going to say "I don't plan on buying or supporting your product, but fix it so that I will buy it". Business doesn't work like this. I am going to move on and find something I DO like.

Say you are going house hunting and you find this really awesome place, but can't live with a few fixable flaws (it needs a new roof, there is a leaky toilet, and the landscaping sucks, for example). Someone you know is also house hunting, makes a bid on the same house, and gets it. Are you going to go to that person and say oh you know that house really sucks cause of A. B. and C. I can't believe you bought it. Why would you waste your time?

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 4:42pm by Oenos
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#209 Sep 09 2010 at 2:38 PM Rating: Decent
Your asuming that everyone has the same taste as you, I love the food so i put up with sub satisfactory service. i'd rather be served good food by an ******* than eat a plate of **** served by mother Teresa.
#210 Sep 09 2010 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Here is a list of few things I have come to expect from MMO releases over the past 5 years.

I think my expectations are realistic, and have been relatively spot on for release dates.

I expect:

A working/functional/intuitive UI that has some room for user customization without hacking.
A broad, in depth, and functional quest/lore/storyline engine.
A working crafting engine that has a built-in system for sorting/collecting recipes.
A functioning player guild system, along with global chat options if people want it.
A working auction or player based merchant system with some sort of search engine
A working client that doesn't crash constantly, is optimized and doesn't require user hacks to function.
A path to endgame without excessive time sinks, restrictions or grinds, also semi-functioning raids and end-game content.
Semi-daily downtimes for patch updates, in a normal timeframe (1-2 hours).

What I don't expect

Perfect party/raid dynamics or perfect mob/class/group balance. This stuff takes time and mass amounts of data farming to iron out.
Bug free quest lines, job skills, crafting or game play. I don't expect there to be perfect pathing, combat locks, or other weird nuisances -- these are normal for a release.

--

So my point I guess is until this stuff is addressed/added to the game, I'll just hold off on playing.


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#211 Sep 09 2010 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
yeah, the game has some issues - like I would really like to see the UI lag eliminated - better built-in mouse control... less menus - but people are really over-stating the game's flaws.

I love playing it.

I'm already addicted.... so I am not sure why everyone is raging so much. Even with its flaws I enjoy playing it waaaaay more than say Warhammer - I signed up for their free trial and it didn't catch me at all. I had no desire to grind it up and get better, it just was bleh.

I'm not pretending things can't get better - but the fact that I love it despite some pretty hefty annoyances is saying a lot.

Will it succeed? I don't know. I'll be paying my subscription. Others may not. I have no control over that. I do want it to succeed but I don't see how getting angry will make it better - or how saying the same negative crap over and over will make the game any more popular or fix any of the problems - it won't.

It actually seems pretty counter-productive to whine and moan at this point - since it has all be said before. However if someone has a new concern I think it would be good to talk about that.

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#212 Sep 09 2010 at 2:59 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Actually you're supposed to read that in the context I put it in...Bsphil said if the game bombs maybe SE will wake up and make it a better product so I said, "no, because if the game bombs then it bombs - nothing will be getting fixed then"..


You apparently can't read into the context of what Bsphil says, yet you expect people to read into your context? Huh. You don't appear to be good at "context."

Quote:
Has the game been released yet? I said complain if these problems are still there at release; patience is a virtue.


Why not complain now? Are you afraid to hear the complaints? Most people complaining are waiting for release... to see if the game is worth playing, and are dropping pre-orders to make sure they don't waste the money.

Quote:
In this entire thread I've said *once* "the game is going to succeed"...i'm not defending the game "a 100 times over", I'm telling the naysayer to take a break, take a breath and wait for the release - I see the problems they're complaining about but honestly you guys are just fuc*in annoying.


So, essentially, you're defending the game from naysayers. You can call it whatever you want, I guess, yet it remains defense. Of course naysayers are going to respond to a defense. Why wouldn't they?

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People come to a game forum to discuss a game they enjoy,


They also come to complain. Forums are for voicing opinions.

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and then there's your type who have nothing but negative things to say about the game.


Weird, I distinctly recall most saying they liked many parts of the game, myself included. It's not their or my fault that you either can't read or view any negative criticism as excluding all other things.

Quote:
The truth is, the people who enjoy the game see the flaws in it but the people complaining about it exaggerate everything 10 fold and *everything* is bad about the game....that to me is trolling, not constructive.


So you think anything you don't agree with is trolling. Exaggerating everything 10 times? You're only saying that because they don't agree with you and you can see their positions. Someone could easily say you're exaggerating the positive, or intentionally ignoring the negative out of ridiculous optimism. Of course, you'd say they're wrong, but they'd also point out that they aren't exaggerating. I'm sure that will work well.

Quote:
...if its a lie, prove it wrong then; wait you can't, cuz the **** game hasn't even released yet.


What does you saying, "I hate to break it to you" when you clearly don't hate to "break it" to people have to do with the release of the game?

Quote:
Who said I don't want the UI more user friendly, did I say that? I don't remember saying this...you know what, I'll make this short....yes, I'm an idiot.


You're arguing vehemently against people who want it fixed, and have suggested they tolerate it until XYZ point, or not complain, etc. Of course you come off as arguing against making it friendly and so, yes, you are an idiot.

Quote:
What I had to say to him holds


No, no it doesn't.

Quote:
maybe its you who is getting irritated because I have something to say that doesn't coincide with what you have to say?


And maybe fairies fall from the sky and sprinkle confetti on children once each night.

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unless you programmed the game yourself you have no grounds to comment on that,


Sure I do.

Quote:
and as far as communication goes SE has been keeping us more up to date than before


Anything is more than their previous communication efforts.

Quote:
if they have nothing to say should they just pop up and say "hi" to us every now and then?


Certainly. How would anyone know if they did or didn't have something to say unless they said so? But they don't say so, so there's very little communication. Communication doesn't just mean "saying things when I want to." It also means announcing that you've heard concerns, talked about progress you've made, what you're thinking about doing, etc. If they don't have any of THAT to say, there are bigger problems than communication.

You said: laggy interface will most likely be gone at release and as for nested menus, I agree

I'm pretty sure your agreement is not where your arguments are coming from, because here you are...

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 5:02pm by JDCyran
#213 Sep 09 2010 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Either I am going to like the product or not. If I don't like it, I am not going to badger the people who DO like it


Well there's your problem. People complaining about things they don't like are not badgering people who DO like it. How many people have stated that you *shouldn't* like it unless others have attacked them for not liking it or diminished their concerns?

Quote:
I am not going to say "I don't plan on buying or supporting your product, but fix it so that I will buy it". Business doesn't work like this. I am going to move on and find something I DO like.


The **** business doesn't. The vast, VAST majority of businesses want to hear about how a product is not working so they can make it better and sell more of it. If people just left, the business would fail, and businesses generally don't like failing when they can avoid it in just about any way.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 5:08pm by JDCyran
#214 Sep 09 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Default
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Lol ok JDCyran, you obviously aren't here to discuss, you're here to throw insults at people and let me tell you man you're not very good at it. Word of advice, if you don't know how to reply to someone, its better keeping quiet than making a fool of yourself. I'm not here trying to aggravate anyone, but for whatever reason you are - what you want is like minded people like yourself to give and take with, I'm not them and its upsetting you. I hope that no matter what they do to make the game better, it never caters to you - keep complaining, I hope your words aren't going to waste...and please if you want to reply to me in the future make sure you read and understand what I'm saying, its proper English afterall; all you've done is tweak and skew my words and replied as if I meant to say something else when it was clear what I was saying on all accounts.
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#215 Sep 09 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Lol ok JDCyran, you obviously aren't here to discuss, you're here to throw insults at people and let me tell you man you're not very good at it. Word of advice, if you don't know how to reply to someone, its better keeping quiet than making a fool of yourself. I'm not here trying to aggravate anyone, but for whatever reason you are - what you want is like minded people like yourself to give and take with, I'm not them and its upsetting you. I hope that no matter what they do to make the game better, it never caters to you - keep complaining, I hope your words aren't going to waste...and please if you want to reply to me in the future make sure you read and understand what I'm saying, its proper English afterall; all you've done is tweak and skew my words and replied as if I meant to say something else when it was clear what I was saying on all accounts.


Aw, that's cute. You've given up and have resorted to doing what you're admonishing someone not to. :)

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 5:10pm by JDCyran
#216 Sep 09 2010 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
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There are people on this site that will defend FFXIV until they die just because it is a FF game. Their chants have and will continue to change as time goes on. It started as,

"It is only Beta 3, the game isn't even close to being finished", to now,

"It is only beta, I am sure they will fix core elements before launch", and then,

"It is only the first month, give it time", followed by,

"This is only the first year, wait for the first expansion", and finally,

"Where is everyone and why are they consolidating servers?"

SE could give them a game with nothing but cut scenes and 5 mobs every square mile and still they would defend it.



Edited, Sep 9th 2010 5:12pm by Enscheff
#217 Sep 09 2010 at 3:14 PM Rating: Default
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JDCyran wrote:
Quote:
Lol ok JDCyran, you obviously aren't here to discuss, you're here to throw insults at people and let me tell you man you're not very good at it. Word of advice, if you don't know how to reply to someone, its better keeping quiet than making a fool of yourself. I'm not here trying to aggravate anyone, but for whatever reason you are - what you want is like minded people like yourself to give and take with, I'm not them and its upsetting you. I hope that no matter what they do to make the game better, it never caters to you - keep complaining, I hope your words aren't going to waste...and please if you want to reply to me in the future make sure you read and understand what I'm saying, its proper English afterall; all you've done is tweak and skew my words and replied as if I meant to say something else when it was clear what I was saying on all accounts.


Aw, that's cute. You've given up and have resorted to doing what you're admonishing someone not to. :)

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 5:10pm by JDCyran


ROFL Smiley: dubious "given up" I thought we're all too old for this stuff lol...I just don't have time to argue with someone like you. I guess this is why I stay clear of topics like this. BTW everything you said in your dissection of my post, can be turned exactly 180 degrees and will pertain to the naysayers...and half the time you don't make a good case for yourself...even when I say something to agree with you you turn it around and try and make me sound wrong...why would I waste my time? anyway this is the last post of mine you'll see in this topic - enjoy wasting your time.
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#218 Sep 09 2010 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
"Where is everyone and why are they consolidating servers?"


And, ironically, this is what most of the people complaining don't want to happen. They want to be happy with the game, play it and watch it succeed. Yet apparently complaining about it is taboo and you shouldn't because it makes people who like the game feel bad. Or something.
#219 Sep 09 2010 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
JDCyran wrote:
Quote:
"Where is everyone and why are they consolidating servers?"


And, ironically, this is what most of the people complaining don't want to happen. They want to be happy with the game, play it and watch it succeed. Yet apparently complaining about it is taboo and you shouldn't because it makes people who like the game feel bad. Or something.


So you think badmouthing the game all over the web will make it popular?
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#220 Sep 09 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
So you think badmouthing the game all over the web will make it popular?


Of course not. However, if people complain and it changes, it will be more popular than it would have been if they didn't, unless the particular changes the people complain/trying for were actually worse, but that's another can of worms.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 5:22pm by JDCyran
#221 Sep 09 2010 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
On this site there have been many more topics about people being put off even trying the game due to all the negativity than those who felt urged to try it. Your overwelming negativity IS effecting other peoples opinions. the issues have been addressed, but far to many times, people get the impression that the game is unbareable because of the constant threads about issues much more minor than they are made out to be. There are 2 or 3 threads constructivly talking about the issues that are updated plenty. there is no need for the constant postings of "the game is bad" "FFXIV is Broken" "They need to push the launch back" etc.
#222 Sep 09 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Excellent
4 posts
The success of this product (let's remember thats ultimately what it is) is dependent on it being enjoyed by alot of people and although I agree that you can't please everybody there are some major issues with this game and calling us all complainers for discussing them is pointless. I don't understand why some people think that those of us that aren't all that thrilled with some aspects of the game are all haters... I want this game to be great and hopefully it will end up that way but there are alot of fundamental problems that I think will hurt its success.

Why do people take this so personally like we are insulting your mother or something... I am a huge FF fan, I played a few years of FFXI and loved it. I was looking forward to this game but it has a LONG way to go just to be as good as its predecessor... thats not the way things are supposed to happen. The visuals, crafting and gathering have improved from FFXI but outside of that its a huge step back IMO. I'm hopeful that they will address those issues but to be this close to launch and have this many issues doesn't bode well for a successful debut.
#223 Sep 09 2010 at 3:39 PM Rating: Default
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All of the money used to fund a MMO for the first month comes from box sales. This forum is rife with people proclaiming they canceled their pre-order. If other people who were on the edge see that and decide not to buy the game, SE loses more box sales, thus less money to develop the first content update, losing subscribers due to lack of content, etc. etc. So I disagree, the negative attitude does hurt the potential success of a new MMO.

Of course I highly doubt it will be a problem for FFXIV. The vocal minority is just that, the minority. Just look at how much bad press FFXI got and it did just fine.
#224 Sep 09 2010 at 3:39 PM Rating: Good
ashuramaru wrote:
On this site there have been many more topics about people being put off even trying the game due to all the negativity than those who felt urged to try it. Your overwelming negativity IS effecting other peoples opinions. the issues have been addressed, but far to many times, people get the impression that the game is unbareable because of the constant threads about issues much more minor than they are made out to be. There are 2 or 3 threads constructivly talking about the issues that are updated plenty. there is no need for the constant postings of "the game is bad" "FFXIV is Broken" "They need to push the launch back" etc.


Realistically speaking, there's not a whole lot else to talk about right now.

There's next to nothing going on story-wise in the beta. Which is fine...save the dramatic bits for retail, but it's not like people can have involved and informed discussions about the lore.

The combat system we've been given so far is roughly as it should be for low level players in a new MMO...aka quite limited.

The actual exposure people have been granted to the game thus far in open beta has been...quite limited. A little over a week now or something? Not really all that long for people to be testing the OB game's features and shenanigans to discuss. The only people right now who are pushing anywhere near (much less beyond) rank 20 with any class are the ones who have been playing it as close to round-the-clock as such tedious distractions as paying rent and sleeping will afford them.

In short, the finer nuances and tidbits about the game that might promote healthy, diverse conversation are absent. What is present is a great deal of cryptic development, extremely questionable design choices, and people still reeling from their first impression of a game that most of us had hoped would deliver so, so much more out of the gate.
#225 Sep 09 2010 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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87 posts
Quote:
All of the money used to fund a MMO for the first month comes from box sales. This forum is rife with people proclaiming they canceled their pre-order. If other people who were on the edge see that and decide not to buy the game, SE loses more box sales, thus less money to develop the first content update, losing subscribers due to lack of content, etc. etc. So I disagree, the negative attitude does hurt the potential success of a new MMO.


Addressing the problems rather than trying to be rid of the complainers is much, much more likely to increase the number of people who pre-order/keep their pre-orders. The negative attitude is a symptom of the problem, not the other way around.

Quote:
The vocal minority is just that, the minority. Just look at how much bad press FFXI got and it did just fine.


If that's the case, I don't know why anyone even cares that some people are complaining.
#226 Sep 09 2010 at 4:42 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
If that's the case, I don't know why anyone even cares that some people are complaining.


Mind if I tell you why I care?

Cause it harms my experience of the game. Call me a carebare, fanboi, or whatever you like, but between the rampant complaining on Gaming Boards in general and the absolute total elitism that downright ruins the feel of any multiplayer game.

Games have stoped being about the exploration and the fun in them. The theorycrafting about the storyline and crazy builds just for the sake of being crazy are next to extinct now, replaced by an obsessive focus on the game's flaws and the absolute best at everything to the exclusion of everything else.

There's hate on the hating haters and people lable and complain and complain about the complainers and groups such as fanboi's and min-maxers and whatever other imagionary insults that can bounced back and forth happen at every interval.

And yet those who are trying to find clam opinions, or share their expiernces have to come back again and again to these boards, like an abusive relationship you just can't get away from.

I'm sorry, I understand issues need to be brought up and people are enttiled to opinions. But I have to say this:

I'd rather prefer the rose tinted glasses of blind people enchanted in the illusion of the game to the point of ignoring the flaws, than those with tunnel vision on the flaws standing on a soapbox with a megaphone screaming in people's ears about how horrible it is or how they ruin the game for not choosing to play their way.

It really does ruin the experience of the game, moreso than the flaws of the game itself, at least for me.

And here I am stuck with the choice, do I deal with the the hard-headed, hate on hate action that MMOs and their boards have become, or do I stop playing with long time friends in order to get some peace in my recreational time? Narrowing my experience and trying to avoid all this crap back and forth is next to impossible nowadays.

So I ask, what am I to do? Also, how can you NOT see how negative this sort of stuff is on both sides. It's fine if you don't like the game, or if there are flaws that are aggrivating. There are feedback sections for that. But arguing back and forth because you have differing opinions, or saying outright insulting things about the game, company, each other, etc makes these boards and the game itself something to avoid, regardless of you proclaim yourself to be a fan or not.

That's the reason why I can't ignore the hate. Its ruining my passtime more than the flaws in the game are.

#227 Sep 09 2010 at 4:49 PM Rating: Good
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412 posts
I don't know about you guys but this dislike of the game reminds me of FFXI. People could simply not get in to it.
Here we have a game that was created solely for the fans. The criticism comes from every person with access to a computer.
It's rather difficult to please both the audience you made this for and the people who play the genre.
Everything will sort itself out and it will be exactly like FFXI was in terms of community.

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#228 Sep 09 2010 at 4:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Mind if I tell you why I care?

Cause it harms my experience of the game. Call me a carebare, fanboi, or whatever you like, but between the rampant complaining on Gaming Boards in general and the absolute total elitism that downright ruins the feel of any multiplayer game.

Games have stoped being about the exploration and the fun in them. The theorycrafting about the storyline and crazy builds just for the sake of being crazy are next to extinct now, replaced by an obsessive focus on the game's flaws and the absolute best at everything to the exclusion of everything else.

There's hate on the hating haters and people lable and complain and complain about the complainers and groups such as fanboi's and min-maxers and whatever other imagionary insults that can bounced back and forth happen at every interval.

And yet those who are trying to find clam opinions, or share their expiernces have to come back again and again to these boards, like an abusive relationship you just can't get away from.

I'm sorry, I understand issues need to be brought up and people are enttiled to opinions. But I have to say this:

I'd rather prefer the rose tinted glasses of blind people enchanted in the illusion of the game to the point of ignoring the flaws, than those with tunnel vision on the flaws standing on a soapbox with a megaphone screaming in people's ears about how horrible it is or how they ruin the game for not choosing to play their way.

It really does ruin the experience of the game, moreso than the flaws of the game itself, at least for me.

And here I am stuck with the choice, do I deal with the the hard-headed, hate on hate action that MMOs and their boards have become, or do I stop playing with long time friends in order to get some peace in my recreational time? Narrowing my experience and trying to avoid all this crap back and forth is next to impossible nowadays.

So I ask, what am I to do? Also, how can you NOT see how negative this sort of stuff is on both sides. It's fine if you don't like the game, or if there are flaws that are aggrivating. There are feedback sections for that. But arguing back and forth because you have differing opinions, or saying outright insulting things about the game, company, each other, etc makes these boards and the game itself something to avoid, regardless of you proclaim yourself to be a fan or not.

That's the reason why I can't ignore the hate. Its ruining my passtime more than the flaws in the game are.


To be perfectly honest, I don't care about your enjoyment of the game. SE ruined my enjoyment of a game I waited years to play. Since they don't take feedback directly (because they don't care about my or your or anyone's opinion), I can't tell them how much I hate their broken 1999-era MMO game.

So I have to come here to discuss it. You'll just have to get a thicker skin, carebear.
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#229 Sep 09 2010 at 4:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I don't know about you guys but this dislike of the game reminds me of FFXI. People could simply not get in to it.
Here we have a game that was created solely for the fans. The criticism comes from every person with access to a computer.
It's rather difficult to please both the audience you made this for and the people who play the genre.
Everything will sort itself out and it will be exactly like FFXI was in terms of community.


As a former FFXI player, not all FFXI players are lapping this **** up.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 6:51pm by hexaemeron
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#230 Sep 09 2010 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
To be perfectly honest, I don't care about your enjoyment of the game. SE ruined my enjoyment of a game I waited years to play. Since they don't take feedback directly (because they don't care about my or your or anyone's opinion), I can't tell them how much I hate their broken 1999-era MMO game.

So I have to come here to discuss it. You'll just have to get a thicker skin, carebear.
That just shows what sort of person you are, I suppose.

You don't care if you ruin everyone elses experience in the process, you just want to vindicate yourself.
That's all.
#231 Sep 09 2010 at 5:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
That just shows what sort of person you are, I suppose.

You don't care if you ruin everyone else's experience in the process. You just want to vindicate yourself. That's all.


Sorry, it took me a moment to fix your grammar and punctuation mistakes in the quote. But yes, you're absolutely right. No one owes you anything. We're here for our own enjoyment. I mean, if the big bad scary internet is really ruining your ability to like a game, then I'd say you have far more pressing problems re: a broken game.



Edited, Sep 9th 2010 7:03pm by hexaemeron
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#232 Sep 09 2010 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
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412 posts
Quote:
As a former FFXI player, not all FFXI players are lapping this **** up.

You almost sound like you beta tested FFXI. You never played FFXI during its initial release which was Japanese exclusive. No Rise of the Zilart. Almost no content!
I want to compare it to WoW which was so buggy it was ridiculous. WoW's launch was a buggy unplayable game too.

Now tell me, have YOU ever played in a successful MMORPG from the very start? Something tells me you haven't. We had lower standards when Ultima Online and Everquest were released but if you try to go back, very few people would give either game a chance. What other games are left? AION? Warhammer? Age of Conan? Tabula Rasa? Star Wars? LOTRO? All million dollar budget titles, all totally bombed in terms of expectations. ****, Tabula Rasa was shut down.

So with all this in mind, can you honestly say FFXIV will be a disaster? MMORPG simply do not work out straight from the start. They have to be built around the people who continue to play the game. They are molded with the player base in mind.

If you're expecting a "WoW killer", you are simply mistaken. WoW was a phenomenon. It's success was attributed to advertising, accessibility, and Blizzards own popularity. FFXI had popularity but it was by no means an easy game people could get in to.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 7:14pm by lambon
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#233 Sep 09 2010 at 5:12 PM Rating: Decent
Oooh, a grammer comment. Ok, we're back in school now, I suppose. (I'm at work, no spellcheck and I'm not paying as much attention to this as I am to, well, work.)

You know, perhaps you're right. Perhaps there's a differn't problem here: A moderation one.

When people are allowed to act the way you do without any reprocussions, it's an issue. Perhaps if I insult Zam enough and say how horrible it is and how much they suck because their boards are totally craptacular and the peopl who can't even conduct a conversation without insulting people at every oppertunity run rampant through their boards just completly destroy MY personal enjoyment.

Oh, and as I'm a paying customer, I should hold more weight than you too.

The point is, even if you dislike the game, you can at the very least act like a decent human being. I dislike the way this and other boards are managed, but it dosen't turn me into an ******* to everyone else around me.
#234 Sep 09 2010 at 5:22 PM Rating: Good
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87 posts
Quote:
That's the reason why I can't ignore the hate. Its ruining my passtime more than the flaws in the game are.


Hmm. Your post seems to have more to do with the state of forums in general and not much to do with what you quoted from me. I'm also not sure I agree with your definition of hate. You definitely touched on some things I've also noticed about forums, but I think you're conflating too many things into one.

As far as...

Quote:
Mind if I tell you why I care?

Cause it harms my experience of the game.


Perhaps you should consider only letting the game influence your experience of the game. Sure, other people inside the actual game changing the environment (shouting obscenities, insulting each other and/or their gear, etc.) might have an influence, but the forums? You don't have to read those. You also don't have to let yourself get caught up in the word wars that people have.

It is merely an unfortunate side effect of people offering opinions that some people will take offense. However, I see little reason to avoid expressing my complaints about something that I find damaging to myself (I really want to enjoy FFXIV, but the various problems I've talked about prevent it; my expectations were not met, and my hopes have, so far, been dashed) simply because you want to look at things in a more rosy frame of mind.

"Hyrist" wrote:
insulting people at every oppertunity

"Hyrist" wrote:
That just shows what sort of person you are, I suppose.


A couched insult is still an insult. If you want to start a change in the way forums work, you can't engage in the very behavior you are protesting. It may sound more noble the way you said it, but it remains what it is, with a little bit of hypocrisy added on.
#235 Sep 09 2010 at 5:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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2,010 posts
You know what I find funny? Folks in a thread that so obviously was fuel for complaints, complaining that the complainers are ruining their experience. Since when is a discussion forum part of the GAME'S experience?

Now that, that's off my chest, a few things of note since I was last here.
zoltanrs wrote:

This is beta.. Noone knows what the game is yet. The main storyline cuts off 15 minutes into play in most places. I will say that a lot of people won't like this game because it is NOT WoW. You will NOT be handed everything in a button clicking orgy of easymode. You WILL probably suck at this. If you sucked at WoW you will be faceblown by your amount of suck at this.


I don't know who you are, but judging by your post count, you aren't a regular here. I can tell you that probably a solid 80% (modest guess) of the people currently in the beta phase are old FFXI players, and SENIOR players at that. Most of the folks who are making comments are drawing directly on their experiences in FINAL FANTASY ELEVEN, and your comment really has no bearing here. No one is complaining about the difficulty, least of all the folks who sucked up XI for years. What we ARE complaining about, is the general lack of courtesy SE shows us by NOT engaging us in the development process after ASKING us to join them (that's the whole point of Alpha\beta), and their looooooong history of blatantly ignoring everything we ask for (and then making jokes about it in magazine publications).


Quote:
The graphics are good, but not better than other new games. They certainly are not good enough to warrant the very high PC specs needed to run the game.


You know, when I first logged in, I fully expected to be completely blown away. However, I agree with this statement. The game is certainly beautiful, but could have been rendered on any number of existing engines, and for a lot less processing power. I get the impression that SE overstated the recommended specs, simply because they just do not have a mastery of developing for the hardware. The beta speaks for itself, in that regard.

Oenos wrote:

This thread is ridiculous. Waste your time complaining about something that's not even close to finished or polished. Not only is it in beta testing, but it still has years of development and content additions. The type of changes that require post production development, where the programmers don't have to worry about deadlines and error fixes, and tons of player feedback. You want your polished, established game full of veterans where everything is optimized and works perfectly NOW, before the game has even released. I'm sorry that SE isn't able to /bow to your instant gratification.


Sir, this thread is not ridiculous, but this statement is. This game is being released to the public on September 22, 2010. That's in less than two weeks by my count. Maybe you are using a different calendar, but where I come from, things are done and polished well before release, and the last couple of weeks are used for little tweaks here and there. I would be fired if my team didn't deliver a quality product on time, on budget, and as promised. That's why we have project planning groups, so that we can plan the entire event, and give ourselves enough breathing room for those "oh ****" scenarios.

This game is nowhere near the level of polish it should have, and you apparently agree although you are shouting at everyone who is trying to get the point across to the folks who have SE's ear (since it's unlikely they visit here).

I do not understand why we are so willing to give MMO's a free pass on relative completion, when we wouldn't do the same for an offline game. How many offline games ended up in the bargain bin after a month on the shelves because of some game-breaking issue that the developers were too lazy to fix before release?

Well I guess that MMO developers are immune to all that. I guess the social experience is so addictive that we will wait out any number of years, hoping something will improve. Sounds rather like an abusive marriage, when put that way, does it not?


So, wall'o text aside, the folks in here have legitimate gripes and SE really should be engaging us in a meaningful way, rather than just closing up their forums, and frankly those of you defending this kind of behavior ought to be rather ashamed.









#236 Sep 09 2010 at 5:41 PM Rating: Excellent
JDCyran, thanks for your post. I'm off work shortly. So I'll give you a reply that's worth the thought and effort you put into it when I get back.
#237 Sep 09 2010 at 5:52 PM Rating: Decent
Only one thing I disagree with you on and that's that non-MMOs are polished on release, as time goes by games are less and less finished at release due to everything being online now, there is very much a mindest of "we'll finish it later". For Example, A recent Tomb Raider game and the latest Prince of persia game were unfinished by release, so the added the content they hadn't finished as payed DLC at a later date.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 7:55pm by ashuramaru
#238 Sep 09 2010 at 7:12 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
JDCyran wrote:
Quote:
"Where is everyone and why are they consolidating servers?"


And, ironically, this is what most of the people complaining don't want to happen. They want to be happy with the game, play it and watch it succeed. Yet apparently complaining about it is taboo and you shouldn't because it makes people who like the game feel bad. Or something.


So you think badmouthing the game all over the web will make it popular?
No. Hopefully it makes it more unpopular. Again, with the point being that it'll force SE into fixing the issues that have been in the game since the first alpha, rather than thinking that the customers will just put up with it. Then FFXIV will actually be worth the subscription fee...

Hydragyrum wrote:
All of the money used to fund a MMO for the first month comes from box sales. This forum is rife with people proclaiming they canceled their pre-order. If other people who were on the edge see that and decide not to buy the game, SE loses more box sales, thus less money to develop the first content update, losing subscribers due to lack of content, etc. etc. So I disagree, the negative attitude does hurt the potential success of a new MMO.
The negative attitude exists for a reason though. Certainly you're not going to argue that even if the game is bad we should all put up with it so that it is successful. Why does a bad game deserve success?

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 8:14pm by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#239 Sep 09 2010 at 7:13 PM Rating: Good
4 posts
lambon wrote:
Quote:
As a former FFXI player, not all FFXI players are lapping this **** up.

You almost sound like you beta tested FFXI. You never played FFXI during its initial release which was Japanese exclusive. No Rise of the Zilart. Almost no content!
I want to compare it to WoW which was so buggy it was ridiculous. WoW's launch was a buggy unplayable game too.



Why is it ok though for developers to launch garbage and get you to pay $XX.XX per month while they "finish" it. Don't you think you deserve better as a customer? But why would SE bother when they have a whole group of people ready to defend every shoddy premature release and better yet pay them for the priviledge of testing and fixing their own product?

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 9:15pm by xhungus
#240 Sep 09 2010 at 7:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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305 posts
Quote:
There are people on this site that will defend FFXIV until they die just because it is a FF game. Their chants have and will continue to change as time goes on. It started as,

"It is only Beta 3, the game isn't even close to being finished", to now,

"It is only beta, I am sure they will fix core elements before launch", and then,

"It is only the first month, give it time", followed by,

"This is only the first year, wait for the first expansion", and finally,

"Where is everyone and why are they consolidating servers?"

SE could give them a game with nothing but cut scenes and 5 mobs every square mile and still they would defend it.


Seriously, aside from missing the "if you dont like it, gtfo" and "go back to wow" this is pretty much the trend that new mmo's have exhibited.

On that topic, one of the things that i am kind of worried about is that i feel that SE is at a disadvantage compared to previous mmo developers in the recent years. By this i mean that if FFXIV does not have its fundamental flaws fixed (and again, not challege based, but user friendliness) aside from the usual outflux of people who wanted to try the mmo but found it was not for them (for various reasons) you will have the outflux of ffxi players who will go back to a more polished (again, not content or challenge wise, but user friendliness), familiar game.

That is going to be a big hit on the possible sales / subs that no other mmo developer really has to face. Even mmo publishers with multiple titles have enough variance in their games to have seperate fan bases. FFXIV however, is part of the FF fanbase, which also shares its pool with FFXI.

Something to consider.

BTW - in regards to writing down recipies - having to rely on outside sources to perform a basic game function is a flawed design. a game should be fairly self-contained in its basic functions. i would bring this further to bear on ffxiv since SE decided to make crafting a class.

at its base, i have yet to see a game where an entire classes mechanics need to be "written down" in order to play the class at a basic level.
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#241 Sep 09 2010 at 7:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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The paid for box should present a completely playable game. $50 or $75 should not offer me the opportunity to "wait and see."
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#242 Sep 09 2010 at 7:25 PM Rating: Decent
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3,178 posts
Do you deny that some people like the game very well? Are you saying that everyone one of them is illogical or unreasonable?

There is a chance that you are just viewing the game through crap-colored glasses.
#243 Sep 09 2010 at 7:28 PM Rating: Good
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TwistedOwl wrote:
nick2412 wrote:
Ok this blame on beta and nitpicking people is getting really really old.. Are you that naive? People are not complaining about the dam bugs.. they are complaining because the game is simply out right boring and unintuitive.. Let's go ahead and list it .. So it will actually go through your skull..

I play in Limsa ... Honestly every other starter town sucks.. and are way too small..
1. Dodo birds why in the **** is it spawning near noob areas .. where not a single solo person can kill it? WHY? WHY?
2. Why are all the good and easily kill-able mobs at low level.. extremely far away from the healing zone (i.e. aether crystal)?
3. Is it really that **** hard to implement a search system for npc.. or better yet Icons.. yes those icons that litter your very desktop.. why not implement them in to the game and save us the trouble of walking around forever looking for a single npc... I am going to go ahead and anticipate your response.. No I don't really care for discovery and exploration.. I just want stuff done.. and done right.. I am not a kind of person that enjoys and trial and miss session with looking for npc's..
4. Leveling... Let's just go ahead and call that a grind fest for now.. Seriously.. Guildleve doesn't award exp.. the crap? Also why does your main physical level go up faster than your class level.. I find that system utterly stupid.. not only is it redundantly hard to level physical level but it is twice as hard to level my class level.. After awhile I wonder why I even bother to level out 2 class..
5. There are simply NO quests that rewards exp.. Guildleves are a joke.. Main quests although exciting offers nothing to improve your character...

So I am just going to flat out and say it.. FINAL GRIND FEST XIV. Holy sh*t yes I know Grind exist in every game.. but other games make it at least bearable or make it very unnoticeable.. Guildwars made grinding to 20 a 1 hour deal.. WoW made it quests for everyone to level.. Aion tries to make quests but fails to give out interesting ones.. Silkroad online.. @#%^ that game..

Final Fantasy XIV on the other hand... WTF.. Guildleve offer absolute crap rewards.. Main quests offers money.. so am I suppose to kill crap all day or something? How exiciting.. NO!!


Here is a screen shot of my collectors edition receipt.. I deeply care about this game.. and wish I can enjoy it.. but it's flaw is simply unbearable... I play aion. I played Final fantasy XI .. I played WoW.. I have played guild wars.. I have played diablo 1, and 2.. but this is the first game ever that completely crushed my faith in its success...

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh10/student908065/Untitled-2.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh10/student908065/Untitled-2.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh10/student908065/Untitled-2.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh10/student908065/Untitled-2.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh10/student908065/Untitled-2.jpg


Despite the attempt to make all of that look like thorough criticism....all I read was "Why isn't the game easier? I want a trail of bread crumbs leading from level1 to cap and endgame with the least amount of work and especially thought put into it. Don't waste my time filling the game with an amazing storyline and things I won't notice because I don't play games to enjoy them."


Playing through the Beta right now, I'd say the game is too easy as it is.

The most blatant problem for me is the HORRIBLE controls, everything you do just feels so clunky (IJKL, seriously?), as well as the UI. I mean you had a PERFECT UI in FFXI, it was clean and simple, and you REGRESS to the point of the game being unplayable.

I guess added onto the UI is the Retainer system, it's just a completely stupid idea no matter how you think of it.
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#244 Sep 09 2010 at 7:46 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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RufuSwho wrote:
Do you deny that some people like the game very well? Are you saying that everyone one of them is illogical or unreasonable?

There is a chance that you are just viewing the game through crap-colored glasses.
I don't deny that some people do like the game. You say crap-colored glasses, I say undying FF fanboyism. Somewhere in the middle is an objective review of the game, and I'd bet good money that it won't be too great.

The game really does have potential in it. The little bit of storyline I got from the Gridania intro I enjoyed watching. I love the Lalafell from the first CS. But when it actually comes time to get into the gameplay, I am disappointed at how far behind SE is for a launch in 13 days. I'd love to see SE get aggressive at fixing the UI and gameplay bugs and keep better contact with the player base (especially the non-JP audience). If they did that I'd probably buy the game at launch day.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#245 Sep 09 2010 at 7:54 PM Rating: Default
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Whatever the popular opinion of the game it's right now, it will only improve on 22th, that little voice inside our head trying to justify the money spent and the subscription fee will more likely change the opinion of the people playing it, even if the change is just subtle.

People canceling their pre-order will be on the other side, trying to justify their decision diminishing any improvements that the retail version may implement, my point is that either side will have bias towards the game but unfortunately the opinion of those who are not playing it will lose strength due the fact that they aren't actually trying it.

I believe canceling a pre-order it's a bad move, if anything give it the benefit of doubt and spend that 75$ just for the chance to make sure that retail version is indeed lacking and you are not happy with the game, you can always ebay the ******* and get back some of your money.

Ken
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FFXIV: Mabel Rand (Gugnir)
FFXI: Kenage, retired.
K&K forever!,
#246 Sep 09 2010 at 8:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,178 posts
bsphil wrote:
RufuSwho wrote:
Do you deny that some people like the game very well? Are you saying that everyone one of them is illogical or unreasonable?

There is a chance that you are just viewing the game through crap-colored glasses.
I don't deny that some people do like the game. You say crap-colored glasses, I say undying FF fanboyism. Somewhere in the middle is an objective review of the game, and I'd bet good money that it won't be too great.

The game really does have potential in it. The little bit of storyline I got from the Gridania intro I enjoyed watching. I love the Lalafell from the first CS. But when it actually comes time to get into the gameplay, I am disappointed at how far behind SE is for a launch in 13 days. I'd love to see SE get aggressive at fixing the UI and gameplay bugs and keep better contact with the player base (especially the non-JP audience). If they did that I'd probably buy the game at launch day.


Fairly said.
#247lambon, Posted: Sep 09 2010 at 8:01 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You make it seem as if SE released a shoddy game. First of all, they haven't released the game so all these bugs we see will probably be gone when the game is released.
#248 Sep 09 2010 at 8:03 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
kenage wrote:
I believe canceling a pre-order it's a bad move, if anything give it the benefit of doubt and spend that 75$ just for the chance to make sure that retail version is indeed lacking and you are not happy with the game, you can always ebay the ******* and get back some of your money
Ehhh, no. I'm not spending $75 to see for myself. If SE pulls out a miracle, then yeah I'll go back to the store a few days after the fact and pick up the game. If they continue at the rate they're going now, then no I'm not going to buy it. Either way, I'll let you guys test it. I have other things I can do with $75.

lambon wrote:
You make it seem as if SE released a shoddy game. First of all, they haven't released the game so all these bugs we see will probably be gone when the game is released.
lambon wrote:
all these bugs we see will probably be gone when the game is released.
lambon wrote:
probably be gone
lambon wrote:
probably
This is the problem. There's a chance they could turn their entire testing phase progress on it's head and fix all of these basics on the release, there's a chance that they won't. That's not enough for me to justify spending $75.



Edited, Sep 9th 2010 9:06pm by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#249lambon, Posted: Sep 09 2010 at 8:14 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I don't think the bugs that are currently present will make the game an unplayable mess. The only problem I have with the open beta is the latency. The user interface could also use an overhaul but again, if that's what is ruining the game for you, then you're just being pessimistic from the getgo.
#250 Sep 09 2010 at 8:21 PM Rating: Decent
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I only read like the first page and a half or so, but I just want to quickly say that I really like the game so far. The desert zone just outside of Ul'Dah is huge, I think I spent an hour and a half last night just running around and I only covered what appears to be 1/4 of it. It's beautiful. There are plenty of places to level (lots of those marmot things out beyond Camp Horizon and very few people over there!). Yeah, there's a lot of really heavy duty mobs there too, but once people explore the area I'm sure we'll figure out where is safe vs not safe. Ok, I don't really like the targeting system they have now (Give me back my target NPC key...or is there one in the beta now that I'm just missing?), and I think the lag when going between menus or adding abilities to slots is fairly annoying, but I'm going to have faith that they'll fix it. It's not going to stop me from playing immediately.

When it comes to gear from quests, I hope they make such quests very high difficulty. The constant stream of really nice quested gear is what totally destroyed the alchemy crafting market in FFXI, where I used to make all my gil. I had to quit because of that, it was just too annoying to try to earn any money, as soon as a synth became profitable every other alchemist was on it. I think that's what they were wanting in the retainer system and making crafts and harvesting their own jobs, to have players depend on other players for gear and such. Probably would be easier with a retainer search system or an AH, but we'll see what happens. If SE agrees with that or the population asks nicely enough in a large enough voice, they'll add one in a patch. Until then I plan on making the best with what we're given.

I don't think the surplus system's SE's brightest idea, they might end up losing some hardcore players. Now, at the same time I don't think people should be so vehemently attached to a single class, all the classes I've tried play very well, and I'm sure once you've exhausted your time on one class you could pick up another. Seeing as we can combine class skills, this is probably a very good thing as it gives you a larger skill base to choose from, allowing you to be more fluid in play style, not to mention make your character more creative/unique. At least this is how I'll probably play. Once I get into the fighting parts of the game (I want to try focusing on crafting/gathering first, more than likely, and wait for my wife to be able to play on the PS3, at which point we'll both get to level DoW/DoM jobs together) I'll probably figure out some neat lancer/conjurer mix. I'll have to look at the abilities of other classes and see what else I might level. At least I'll have a few months to decide!

I think the crafting system's very neat. More fun than XI where I just hit a few buttons and go! I don't understand people's complaints about the recipes not autosaving, these people must not have spent much time crafting in FFXI, as recipes weren't autosaved and ingredients did not get preloaded for you. I'm sure the autoloading comes from another game that I haven't played, so everyone with these complaints must have gotten used to that from that/those game(s). I have no issues with keeping print outs and notes of recipes around. As I mentioned in my previous paragraph, cross-class skills definitely are noticeably required in crafting. I started as an alchemist, but the honey/table salt leves I kept failing because those are alchemy/culinarian cross-class recipes. So I leveled culinarian a bit (still am working on that), and started actually succeeding in those synths. Then I am asked to make rubber, which apparently requires some woodworking. So since I'm going to want to main alchemy, it looks like I'll be spending time after release as a culinarian and a woodworker as well. We'll see what comes up with other recipes.

Keep in mind these are my own opinions, and as far as I know I'm not attacking anyone else's. Everyone's opinions on the game are their very own, and if someone doesn't like the released product, they don't have to play. I also don't think the people that don't like it have any right to make others believe the same things about the game. I for one really enjoy what they've released and all the negativity in ZAM and elsewhere isn't going to sway me.

Edit: And I do apologize if I have inadvertantly attacked someone else's opinion, it was not my intention, this was only my conclusions from playing the beta and what I have read from SE. Also I apologize for initially saying I'd be quick about saying that I like the game. Looks like "quick" meant a few paragraphs!

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 9:24pm by Gadhelyn
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#251 Sep 09 2010 at 8:30 PM Rating: Decent
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1,636 posts
I'm gonna laugh if it turns out the open beta isn't even close to the same version they are completing/patching now for release, and just about everything people are complaining about are fixed. I honestly believe that what we're playing is a barely touched up version of alpha, for the purposes of stress testing, and they didn't bother to go back and mess with the programming. Its why I think they've closed feedback.


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