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#252 Sep 09 2010 at 8:34 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
I'm gonna laugh if it turns out the open beta isn't even close to the same version they are completing/patching now for release, and just about everything people are complaining about are fixed.
I'd love that.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#253 Sep 09 2010 at 8:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm gonna laugh if it turns out the open beta isn't even close to the same version they are completing/patching now for release, and just about everything people are complaining about are fixed. I honestly believe that what we're playing is a barely touched up version of alpha, for the purposes of stress testing, and they didn't bother to go back and mess with the programming. Its why I think they've closed feedback.


Nothing would make my panties moister.
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#254 Sep 09 2010 at 8:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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305 posts
Quote:
I'm gonna laugh if it turns out the open beta isn't even close to the same version they are completing/patching now for release, and just about everything people are complaining about are fixed. I honestly believe that what we're playing is a barely touched up version of alpha, for the purposes of stress testing, and they didn't bother to go back and mess with the programming. Its why I think they've closed feedback.


That would be awesome.
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#255 Sep 09 2010 at 9:22 PM Rating: Decent
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172 posts
Why is everyone getting upset cause certain people dislike things about the game?

If you like the game, just share with everyone what you like about the game, no need to insult people for their personal opinions.

Like, for example. "I like that I can only do 8 lvl quests every 2 days and have to grind the same mobs over and over to lvl."

Yea that one was sarcastic, cause to me, the current game is kinda boring, but for people that like the game, say why you like it and compare it to another game and say why it's so much better then that game. Don't just insult people cause they dislike the game, tell them why the game is fun to you so they can learn why it's fun and perhaps try out the fun things.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 11:23pm by Nokturnal
#256 Sep 09 2010 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
Nokturnal wrote:
Why is everyone getting upset cause certain people dislike things about the game?

If you like the game, just share with everyone what you like about the game, no need to insult people for their personal opinions.

Like, for example. "I like that I can only do 8 lvl quests every 2 days and have to grind the same mobs over and over to lvl."

Yea that one was sarcastic, cause to me, the current game is kinda boring, but for people that like the game, say why you like it and compare it to another game and say why it's so much better then that game. Don't just insult people cause they dislike the game, tell them why the game is fun to you so they can learn why it's fun and perhaps try out the fun things.
Now that's just out of line. :P
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#257 Sep 09 2010 at 9:51 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:

Hmm. Your post seems to have more to do with the state of forums in general and not much to do with what you quoted from me. I'm also not sure I agree with your definition of hate. You definitely touched on some things I've also noticed about forums, but I think you're conflating too many things into one.


You'd be right, on both parts. It would be great to say that it's just this forum or that issue. But the truth of the matter, over the last several years, forums have gotten worse and worse in terms of overall maturity and ability to remain civil. Blanket statement? Most defiantly, but the fault lies heavily in lax moderation more than people refusing to be civil. A few highly attentive moderators and boards tend to straighten up quickly.

The problem is, Boards are more fragile than the games they gather around, so between fear of not getting enough subscribers or add clicks, and just the sheer load of having someone attentive to large yield sites like this one, you end up with some pretty unappealing community gatherings.

Quote:

Perhaps you should consider only letting the game influence your experience of the game. Sure, other people inside the actual game changing the environment (shouting obscenities, insulting each other and/or their gear, etc.) might have an influence, but the forums? You don't have to read those. You also don't have to let yourself get caught up in the word wars that people have.


This is indeed a good point, but it comes with complications.

The difficulty here lies in the purpose for a community. Strictly speaking, forums is the place you go for gatherings, questions and quick info when Wiki's fail to provide the detail or personalization you desire.

Finding a that guide or speculation you desire may not exist in the usual places. So you stand to loose a lot by avoiding the forums JUST to avoid the crap.

There's also the backwash effect. What happens in these communities floods the game, melded opinions and mentalities form here, and it's good to be aware of the trends and mechanics created when you form your own personal choices. The problem is, however, is that they don't need to be so negatively reinforced, yet they are to the point of excess. When someone makes a personal and informed choice to spec a certain way, the conversation should shift to how to make the most of that spec or how to improve upon that route, not how horrible/stupid/ignorant that person is for making the choice. That's trolling and flaming, two things that clearly break the rules, yet are not moderated enough to be discouraged.

Quote:

It is merely an unfortunate side effect of people offering opinions that some people will take offense. However, I see little reason to avoid expressing my complaints about something that I find damaging to myself (I really want to enjoy FFXIV, but the various problems I've talked about prevent it; my expectations were not met, and my hopes have, so far, been dashed) simply because you want to look at things in a more rosy frame of mind.


Then (and I stress this isn't you personally, but a generally call-out) present your arguments like a mature adult, and not like an ignorant political protest. "A game that doesn't play the way I like it, therefore I'm going to blow my horn as hard as I can to push people away so the game fails, and then MAYBE they'll listen to me." Is not constructive criticism, nor does it really work. (Aion is a perfect example of this.) If you continually dissuade away from the game in its infancy , it does NOT recover from it. It will balance out with the hardest of devoted players and the company will appeal primarily to them. If the game starts with an initial success, then declines due to specific, identifiable flaws, THEN it will attempt to recover, as you've given them a taste of what they're capable of.

"Rosy Frame of Mind" is exactly what you want to start an MMO on if you want it to successfully develop. Demanding instant satisfaction, and turning astutely against the company when you get it hurts both sides.

Quote:
A couched insult is still an insult. If you want to start a change in the way forums work, you can't engage in the very behavior you are protesting. It may sound more noble the way you said it, but it remains what it is, with a little bit of hypocrisy added on.


When someone openly declares a complete dismissal of you, it becomes difficult not to become offended. In my opinion, he received what he gave as politely as I could for how rudely I was being regarded.

His attitude implied that I had not taken more than my fare share of debates and arguments that require "a thick skin". That couldn't be farther from the truth. However I am reaching a certain saturation point with the growing intensity of flaming and trolling on Zam specifically, and it deserves better than this. I'm not expecting flowery kindness from the boards, but people should know when to bite their tongs (or their fingers in this case.)

And when they can't the mods need to be there to step in; IMO more frequently than they have been. ZAM had a really good running when the quality of the boards were fairly good. Now it seems to have fallen a bit and a lot more is being let slide.

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Quote:
I don't deny that some people do like the game. You say crap-colored glasses, I say undying FF fanboyism. Somewhere in the middle is an objective review of the game, and I'd bet good money that it won't be too great.

The game really does have potential in it. The little bit of storyline I got from the Gridania intro I enjoyed watching. I love the Lalafell from the first CS. But when it actually comes time to get into the gameplay, I am disappointed at how far behind SE is for a launch in 13 days. I'd love to see SE get aggressive at fixing the UI and gameplay bugs and keep better contact with the player base (especially the non-JP audience). If they did that I'd probably buy the game at launch day.


Here's an example of a contrasting opinion that I respect. You're balancing the pros and cons of both opinions, and the things that are disappointing you. Outright utter discouragement is wrong in the form of methodology, not in opinion. Maintaining that the game has critical flaws, while still hoping for potential isn't in and of itself a bad thing, but when the presentation (or countering) of it becomes a matter of one person trolling another, or back and forth arguing that for the most part, becomes pointless, then that's a serious problem that harms the community as a whole.

It's not just in this game, I acknowledge (and agree with) some of the arguments they're trying to make, even though I staunchly disagree with their methodology to try to 'force' a solution.

To reiterate. There's nothing wrong with being disappointed with the game, nor is there in defending the strong points of the game and remaining hopeful for it's future. However, when you get to the point where your are actively (and venomantly) discouraging players from playing the game and finding out for themselves, you are contributing to further problems. Giving a player a taste of the game as flawed as it is will give them a more accurate assessment of the game than any opinion. It should be up to them to decide if the box sale was worth it. If they're hanging on the edge, that's what the open beta is for. If they're having difficulties, and you wish to prove or emphasize your point, then share your key or point it out constructively. They may decide the game is worth grunting through the issues, and that's fine, leave it at that.

Calling people "Fanboi" for supporting a game in spite of it's flaws is just derogatory and pointless. There is nothing wrong in being a fan, after all, if everyone stops supporting the game, it'll just crash and burn. It's on the backs of the devout fans you'll have your chance for the game to improve.

And improve it will, if FFXI is any indication, SE does listen, even if they're a bit slow to respond and do not always react the way we desire. The advantage of MMOs is that they do develop, unlike a lot of retail games that will usually not be updated. However, even then, there may be a good game behind the flaws if they can be overlooked. (The Last Remnant has horrible issues, but that does not prevent it from sitting in my collection after being thoroughly enjoyed.)

It's all a matter of what you can tolerate from the onset. And it should be stressed that people on both sides of the argument really do need to respect the opinions and discuss the issues rather than beat each other with them.
#258 Sep 09 2010 at 9:58 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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Hyrist, ****** Superhero wrote:
And improve it will, if FFXI is any indication, SE does listen, even if they're a bit slow to respond and do not always react the way we desire.
Well if they want to develop FFXIV at the same rate that they did with FFXI I'd definitely not bother playing. That was their first MMO, they should have taken a lot of lessons away from it. Not doing better than they did with FFXI is not acceptable in my book, they should be getting better with more work under their belt.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#259 Sep 09 2010 at 10:00 PM Rating: Decent
Oh, as an added point. I would like to stress that making a company fail completely, is not an adequate learning tool.

Case in point: Final Fantasy: Spirits Within.

It was that Catastrophic failure that lead to the eventual creation of Square Enix, and if I may be so bold, the production value hasn't quite been the same since. (Mind you, there's been some really good games to have come out, but it feels as if Squaresoft really lost something in its merger.)
#260 Sep 09 2010 at 10:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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In the interests of complete honesty: following this last version update my interface lag is greatly improved. The UI is still clearly server-side, but the lag is improved.

I'll test it again with a more populated server (let's say... friday evening)

EDIT for Great Justice: BTW, estimation of UI latency on Mysidia when I tested this was around 400~600ms, impossible to be more accurate than that without someone to time it for me or video recording software I don't have. That's still too high, but if the number can stay no higher than this, the game is at least playable.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 11:25pm by Callinon
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#261 Sep 09 2010 at 10:05 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
In the interests of complete honesty: following this last version update my interface lag is greatly improved. The UI is still clearly server-side, but the lag is improved.

I'll test it again with a more populated server (let's say... friday evening)


I was thinking the exact same thing but I was unsure if it was just from a few players actually logged in. In fact, the lag felt much improved
#262 Sep 09 2010 at 10:05 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
Well if they want to develop FFXIV at the same rate that they did with FFXI I'd definitely not bother playing. That was their first MMO, they should have taken a lot of lessons away from it. Not doing better than they did with FFXI is not acceptable in my book, they should be getting better with more work under their belt.


At the same rate? I'd agree wholeheartedly. I really hope they update faster in this game than they do in FFXI, or at least react quicker to problems.

But to be honest, even Alpha to Beta and Beta to Open Beta they've made some pretty sizable improvements. I hope this means the game itself will be a bit more mailable in the way they adjust things for a time until everything settles in.

But I've been weaned on different kinds of MMOs, I know better than to expect a fully polished MMO out the door. FFXI, Aion, Guild Wars, WoW, and these are just the big titles. None of them were good out the door. Unlike console titles there's too much to work on to have it 100% by launch, especially when you are dependent on feedback for the refinements.
#263 Sep 09 2010 at 10:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyrist, ****** Superhero wrote:
Oh, as an added point. I would like to stress that making a company fail completely, is not an adequate learning tool.

Case in point: Final Fantasy: Spirits Within.

It was that Catastrophic failure that lead to the eventual creation of Square Enix, and if I may be so bold, the production value hasn't quite been the same since. (Mind you, there's been some really good games to have come out, but it feels as if Squaresoft really lost something in its merger.)


Common belief. Also untrue.

In fact, the failure of Spirits Within delayed the merger with Enix - it has such a huge negative impact on Square's financials that it made Enix wary of going through with the purchase, which had been in the planning stages even before Spirits Within was released.
#264 Sep 09 2010 at 10:20 PM Rating: Good
Hmm.

Thanks for correcting me then.

Still say something went amiss either after the merger or after Spirit's Within itself. They've gotten some good titles out since then but SE seems to lack that magic that captivated me all up through FFX.
#265 Sep 09 2010 at 10:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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2,535 posts
Hyrist, ****** Superhero wrote:
Hmm.

Thanks for correcting me then.

Still say something went amiss either after the merger or after Spirit's Within itself. They've gotten some good titles out since then but SE seems to lack that magic that captivated me all up through FFX.


Well, it did lead to Sakaguchi leaving... but then look at what he's done since then.

Frankly, IMO it's been an ongoing process that started around 14 years ago, but that's just my opinion...
#266 Sep 09 2010 at 11:42 PM Rating: Good
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51 posts
Quote:

I hate to break it to you, but all of the positives you have listed have been done better in past games.


So? If we break FFXIV apart and examine each facet against the better qualities of previous games, then I agree. Behold:

  • Eve Online has far better graphics. I daresay the artistic direction at CCP is what kept me playing their game for as long as I did. It's just a glorious piece of eye-candy to behold.
  • Everquest ("Oh my god why could he be bringing up that antique") released Lost Dungeons of Norrath, which basically paved the way for content to be generated for a specific group in a private instance for great xp grinding goodness, and they didn't limit it like they SE did with Guildleves!
  • Ragnarok Online allowed you to assign stats. What the heck is FFXIV thinking they're so original. They don't even have an agility stat!


But I digress: Not once in my original post did I take the stance of saying FFXIV was the best at everything. I did not even say it was the best any anything. Do you only enjoy the company of your best friend only and shun your good friends? I love the best software titles and I still enjoy good software titles. I personally put FFXIV in the second category and I still like it! I broke down the final product into components and made a statement how I like them. That's all.

Quote:

Just because it took a decade to add them to a FF game does not make them newer or better. They are things expected by MMO players in 2005, much less 2010.


And yet, things like total character customization like cross class equipable abilities (with pro's/con's attached for doing so) is something absent from the vast majority of mainstream MMO's and a great many number of lesser known MMO's. But even if it's not completely original (let's face it, you could probably twist my arm and try to pass it as par with Warhammer Online's equippable 'tactics' if you really wanted to), it's so infrequently used as to still be a novel idea and a good one at that. It gives power back to the player to make decisions, employ tactics, and celebrate a level of in-game success for well thought out class load outs.

Quote:

The graphics are good, but not better than other new games.


/shrug. Yes and no. If I compare the graphics to other MMOs like Star Trek Online and All Points Bulletin, then yes it is better. Far, so very far, from being the worst; but not the best either.

Quote:

They certainly are not good enough to warrant the very high PC specs needed to run the game.


I really can't really provide any comment that won't lend me to later looking like a know-it-all jerk. Here goes anyways: My experience is that my four year old middle tier PC really has no problems running it at a respectable resolution. On this basis alone do I believe the requirements are not nearly as exorbitant as you make them out to be.

Quote:

You have been able to choose which stats you raise and which abilities you can use for years in every single MMO I have ever played. I can't even think of a game where you don't get to make these choices.


I'm going to make an assumption here, and please correct me if i'm wrong: You've played WoW. God help me, I am going to use that game as an example to your counter your point, and only because it's the most mainstream example and safest assumption.

  • WoW assigns stats upon level up for you.
  • Can you have Holy Light and Moonfire on one character? Back stab and wolf form?


Maybe if you gave me an example, i'd be more inclined to agree... or at least better understand where you are coming from.

Quote:

Leves are nothing more than the same exact quests you get in every other MMO, except that for some reason the FFXIV devs decided to add a harsh restriction on the very quest system every other MMO has used for years.


Yes, you only get eight over inflated parcels of experience every 48 hours to make your first few hours in game the most constructive. Then you get the normal rate of experience; but that's an entirely different argument and I have already stated part of my opinion on certain xp mechanics in this game. I do not invite what will certainly be a tired and aggravated exchange that make be on par with something like:

Me: "Peek Freams fruit cremes are totally better than Oreos!"
You: "Nuh uh, there are more Oreos in the box!"
Me: "But Peek Freams have that sweeter center!"

Then we get slapped by admins and look like a pair of fools. The End. ;)

(Side note: Opinions are opinions, and perhaps we can leave it at the fact we agree to disagree on this. We obviously have different value systems on how we judge our games, right?)
#267 Sep 10 2010 at 12:18 AM Rating: Good
It's Just a Flesh Wound
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RattyBatty wrote:
I think the metaphor of 'serving up a juicy steak on a garbage can lid' applies in this case.


http://www.famousdaves.com/menuCategories/feasts/ :D
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#268 Sep 17 2010 at 9:12 PM Rating: Decent
2 posts
All I have to say ....Tom said already:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qPpbVllX7M


#269 Sep 17 2010 at 11:07 PM Rating: Decent
Party Pooper
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Rjain wrote:
I'm still positive about the game. A lot of the negative comments are coming from very nitpicky people or just the fact that it's a beta, like the beta lag and crashes.
?


I just have a question on this part. I have never taken part in a Beta before, or anything like it. Are Betas run on different servers? Like, for example, the 10-15 second menu lag, etc. Are we on different servers? Old coding? Idk much about Beta testing.
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SW:TOR Maim (Assassin) Sai'kou (Sniper) GM: Ultimatum. Retired: When 1.2 failed miserably.
FFXIV: Flix Skyfall (Behemoth) 50BRD: River of Blood for dayzzzzzz


#270 Sep 17 2010 at 11:11 PM Rating: Excellent
FlixEffect wrote:
Rjain wrote:
I'm still positive about the game. A lot of the negative comments are coming from very nitpicky people or just the fact that it's a beta, like the beta lag and crashes.
?


I just have a question on this part. I have never taken part in a Beta before, or anything like it. Are Betas run on different servers? Like, for example, the 10-15 second menu lag, etc. Are we on different servers? Old coding? Idk much about Beta testing.


The UI lag exists right now because all of your menu selections are going through the game servers. It's a nifty trick developers can use to ramp up server load as well as gather information about how people are playing the game. For release, most people expect that the UI will all be handled client side which will alleviate most (if not all) of the lag and should also help reduce the more generalized lag.
#271 Sep 17 2010 at 11:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Interesting. Thanks.
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[sm]FFXI: Flix 75THF/RNG/NIN/WAR/MNK/DRK/SAM/DRG/BLM Retired: Sept 2009.
SW:TOR Maim (Assassin) Sai'kou (Sniper) GM: Ultimatum. Retired: When 1.2 failed miserably.
FFXIV: Flix Skyfall (Behemoth) 50BRD: River of Blood for dayzzzzzz


#272 Sep 18 2010 at 9:39 AM Rating: Decent
2 posts


On a more serious note:

I know some people have a hard time with some parts of the game.

-"I hate having to search for an NPC like a needle in a haystack"

There is a map button in your quest journal that will show you where the NPC is.

-"UI Lag"

I think by now everyone should know, the UI will be much faster at release once it is run client side.

-"my computer won't handle the game it's ;poor coding; "

The game was built to be played on the next two generations of the highest level graphics cards. There is enough polygons in there for this game to look near like "Avatar" once these cards become available to the general public. It's not poor coding, it's smart design to give your game longevity.

So guys, seriously I paid 169 bucks for my graphics card and it runs the game beautifully {on a dual core machine I get 0 lag in beta with all their debuggers running}. If you are a gamer (mass effect 2-3, Crysis, whatever) you are going to need the card anyway. Cash can be tight some times I know, but it is an expensive hobby.

-" I don't want to grind"

It's a Japanese MMO; of course it's a grind fest. For better or worse this is the way Japanese like their games, and make no mistake the game was designed for Japanese players. Westerners prefer other methods, which is how Blizzard and Anet make their great fun to play games;they were designed with the western ideal in mind.

#273 Sep 18 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Here is a great read the studio head of another mmo once showed me. Of course, this is from the Western perspective.
#274 Sep 18 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Default
Edited by bsphil
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Tealtraum wrote:
Here is a great read the studio head of another mmo once showed me. Of course, this is from the Western perspective.
That's also taking into assumption that a dev would bother talking to its player base.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#275 Sep 18 2010 at 6:45 PM Rating: Default
40 posts
I remember reading some kind of gaming magazine making a article about WOW some month before the release, the article was going along the line its delayed because its crap its an awefull game. well im no wow fan but man was the guy off the target XD.

In fact anything new or unconventional is going to be received with a lot of aprehension. People just dont like change... you just need to look at those pathetic people who still playing wow to know it.

"The graphic is not important".... said the guy who cant afford a good PC and play ffxiv. XD
#276 Sep 18 2010 at 9:11 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Here is a great read the studio head of another mmo once showed me. Of course, this is from the Western perspective.


Good read... but i lol'd at this part:

Quote:
Part of it is caused by the relatively close level of developer interaction on most MMO forums


Oh, if only...
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#277 Sep 19 2010 at 12:04 AM Rating: Default
29 posts
Quote:
What the heck is FFXIV thinking they're so original. They don't even have an agility stat!


Doesnt not having an agility stat just reinforce originality. Contradiction ?!

Quote:
" I don't want to grind"

It's a Japanese MMO; of course it's a grind fest. For better or worse this is the way Japanese like their games, and make no mistake the game was designed for Japanese players. Westerners prefer other methods, which is how Blizzard and Anet make their great fun to play games;they were designed with the western ideal in mind.


Lets look at WoW:
Its a grindfest more than ever under the illusion of 'ease of access'.


Most of the negative comments are due to: http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=1284691264201597586&page=1
#278 Sep 19 2010 at 1:41 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
joodas wrote:
Quote:
What the heck is FFXIV thinking they're so original. They don't even have an agility stat!


Doesnt not having an agility stat just reinforce originality. Contradiction ?!
Re-inventing the wheel, now without curves!
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#279 Sep 19 2010 at 3:08 AM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
xaladen wrote:
People are much less likely to stay with an MMO that "needs work" because there is always something else around the corner. On top of that, if the REVIEWS come out bad (and having read some of the previews from sites like IGN and Gamespot, it is not promising) then you're REALLY in a pickle.
I hope FFXIV gets horrible reviews. I'd be very pleased to see the game die as a horrible failure within a year of release.


You fill me with rage!
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#280 Sep 19 2010 at 3:35 AM Rating: Default
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My advice to anyone would be try it for yourself(even though it ends today) mainly because I love Final Fantasy but I wasnt going to give XIV a second look. I was never that interested in XI and the system requirements are high so I just shrugged it off. But my friend who I mentioned the beta to got me to come try it out and now I have the CE on preorder :3 the game looks great even on log settings, and my 9800GT is managing it really well. Im even going as far as using XIV as a reason to buy a whole new PC seeing as it will cost about the same as upgrading :D

In short: Try it for yourself it could completely 180 your mind :)
#281 Sep 19 2010 at 6:14 AM Rating: Decent
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well, i was going to go pick up the main release on the 30th. i've seen what happens to mmos on release date and it ain't pretty, so i'd planned on waiting.

after giving the beta a shot, i think i'm going to wait a few months to see if some of the features I want in an MMO are added/fixed. if not, oh well, if so, i'll give it a try.
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#282 Sep 19 2010 at 6:24 AM Rating: Default
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For every nay sayer there's 2 FF fanboys there to claim it's just beta and will be awesome.

This game has a lot of potential, but it's a long ways off from being a great game.. or even a good one.
It's convoluted as **** and looks to have less than half the content that it needs.
You can say wow is for players who want everything given to them, and that's true in some ways, but this game is going to fall flat on it's face if they don't fix it.. and soon.
I'm encourages by the recent comments from SE about upcoming fixes and plans though.
I hope by start of 2011 this will resemble an actual game and not a glorified demo with nice graphics.
#283 Sep 19 2010 at 6:33 AM Rating: Default
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Waah Waah Waah - This game doesn't allow me to level up in seconds!

This game doesn't hold my otherwise incapable hand while I'm playing it.

^ That's all I hear.

Grow some balls and play a real game - Orrr... GTFO!
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#284 Sep 19 2010 at 6:49 AM Rating: Good
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Papanurf wrote:
Waah Waah Waah - This game doesn't allow me to level up in seconds!

This game doesn't hold my otherwise incapable hand while I'm playing it.

^ That's all I hear.

Grow some balls and play a real game - Orrr... GTFO!


what are you talking about?

a real game? you must be talking about the ORIGINAL Everquest, because that game makes FFXI look like hello kitty online.

face it, mmo's have evolved - they've taken a lot of what used to be available only on community sites (ie, wiki sites, recipe/tradeskill databases, etc) and brought it into the game client. ffxiv fails at an epic scale in regards to this.

also, the leveling up uber-quick thing, i don't care if it takes me a year to reach cap just afford me the opportunity to solo it all the way because quite frankly, i'm a grown up, I don't have 4-5 hour chunks of time to group up and xp camp.
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#285 Sep 19 2010 at 7:06 AM Rating: Good
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I can remember way back when...

1.) If a person enjoyed the game they started playing, then they would play that game.

2.) If a person DID NOT enjoy the game they started playing, then they WOULD NOT play that game.

As far as giving SE reviews, there will be negative and there will be positive and that is fine with me. I personally believe there will be thousands of players who enjoy playing FFXIV and continue to give props to SE, and there will be hundreds of players who will STILL PLAY but complain about this and that (some of them looking down upon the players who enjoy the game because they don't view the game as negatively as they do).

Moral of the story, SE has developed a game (just like so many other game developers) that will ONLY Appeal to a PORTION of the market, not to everyone.

There may be some things about the game that even the players who Love the game may say they don't like, but I guess I just can't see someone who says they Hate the game stick around to harass and mock SE, or its fan base.








Edited, Sep 19th 2010 9:14am by jayfly
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#286 Sep 19 2010 at 9:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
also, the leveling up uber-quick thing, i don't care if it takes me a year to reach cap just afford me the opportunity to solo it all the way because quite frankly, i'm a grown up, I don't have 4-5 hour chunks of time to group up and xp camp.


Same, I just want some sort of solo option available. This 'forced' group interdependence that's pushed everywhere these days is stifling. Pretty soon, you'll be seen as 'dysfunctional,' or a 'loser,' or a 'loner' if you go to the restroom yourself.

I get that it's an MMO, but it shouldn't be pushed to extremes. I'm surprised 'groupies' in today's society haven't thought up a group requirement for character creation yet: being able to create your character by yourself encourages antisocial behavior, amirite?

I recall my FFXI EG days... spending 4+ hours a day in an end-game group, running it like a business, whatever: in retrospect, it just seems so sad. aaahhh, I think I'm getting too old for this stuff.

Edited, Sep 19th 2010 11:14am by ghosthacked
#287runtheplacered, Posted: Sep 19 2010 at 9:55 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I don't think he was even talking to you.
#288 Sep 19 2010 at 10:11 AM Rating: Default
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joodas wrote:
Lets look at WoW:
Its a grindfest more than ever under the illusion of 'ease of access'.


Getting to the level cap in WoW takes no time at all. The only "grind" is gearing out your character, and even that isn't all that difficult. Having said that, WoW sucks and is it wednesday yet?
#289 Sep 20 2010 at 1:42 AM Rating: Decent
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To the original poster, I would answer: I've got a couple negative comments for you :).

There's not a lot to do to keep your busy. One of the silliest things I've seen in this game is a limit of 8 guildeves with a reset-timer of 48 hours. If you get disconnected, the guildeve is an automatic failure. That's a bit annoying. Especially when the game will crash to desktop on a windows 7 x64 system with more than 4gb of ram once every 2-hours to 3-hours or so it seems. The real problem is 8 per 48 works out to 4 per hour.

Most guildeves involve killing approximately 6-8 monsters. This is actually pretty standard and similar to a 'Quest' in most mmorpgs. Sometimes other mmorpgs might have more like kill 20 mobs as there's a 15% drop rate...but that's a different system. There's nothing worth with having a quest involving killing 6 monsters. The problem is that killing 6-8 monsters will take you roughly 3-4 minutes and another 2-3 minutes to travel to where the mobs have spawned. So that's maybe 8-10 minutes of gameplay x 4 per day leave you with roughly 40 minutes of 'quests' a day to do. To do actual storyline quests, they start at rank 0, rank 10, rank 20, etc. See a pattern forming here? So you'd need to gain 10 'ranks/levels' to do more than '4' quests in a day. Of course 10 ranks takes an expoentially longer and longer time investment. So your question experience might look like this:

Day 1: 8 quests
Day 2: 0 quests
Day 3: 8 quests
Day 4: 1 quest(b/c you realize! Ohh there's a storyline quest now that I'm rank 10)
Day 5: 8 quests
Day 6: 0 quests
Day 7: 0 quests(Huh? Why 0. The guildeves have reset? because you run into another fundamental design flaw of the world itself. I'll explain this is the paragraph after next).

The problem is every 2nd day your basically left with grinding mobs to get rank. Grinding mobs is very boring for the most part as your just hitting '1, 1, 2, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2' for most classes. Perhaps the occasioanl 3-4.

Anyone who has reached Rank 10 will find the joys of Lone Wolfs or similar mobs sooner or later. When your doing a solo guild eve, you'll find that the mobs are spawned perhaps 2-3 minutes outside of a 'camp'. To reach those mobs, you often have to in Gridana follow a very 'rigid' one-way path. Now on your way to these mobs, you'll find 'Group Monsters' or 'Very Tough' monsters. These monsters are designed to be killed imo by a group of 3-4 players. They hit you for approximately 45% of your health.

So it makes for a situation where you cannot complete your guildeve without a party. Of course, standing in a camp(city like area) with 18-30 people around you asking for help using the auto translate system or asking by yourself gets you no party. So you sit there realizing you can't reach your guild eve and watching the 30 minute timer count down only to eventually fail the guildeve due to the lack of help from the FF community and being completely ignored. Go FF community go!

Furthermore, your penalized for partying if your a healer. It sounds silly but true. As a healer like a conj or thalamage, you do not get any job experience points for healing. When in a party, you spend 80-90% of your time casting constant healing spells when taking on very tough monsters. That's not too surprising and is true of most healer roles in mmorpgs. Sadly, this means you only get 10-20% the chances to gain a experience as experience is rewarded 'at random(like a dice roll)' when you hit a mob. So you basially level at 1/5th to 1/10th the speed as a raw-dps class. On some level, doesn't this seem like a fundamentally un-japanese idea that does not belong in FF14? Instead of being rewarded for working as a group, you are penalized for it. Almost encouraging individual effort over group effort.

You also seem to be penalized for grouping as any class to an extent as when the guildeve reward screen comes up, you never seem to get the bonus item for completing the guild eve. You only get some gil(money). Wee? Basically, it seems only the one who starts the guildeve gets the bonus item(when one is given) for completing a quest. So its really like a reward-the-leader, *****-the-underlings type reward system.

I guess the other issue which may be fixed is the Teleport system. Basically, you can teleport from camps within the same zone to the main city for 4 Anima(teleport power points basically). Unfortuantely, you get Anima back at a rate of '1 Anima' per every 4 hours. So to teleport from a camp in the same zone saving you roughly 10 minutes of walking, uses up enough Anima that you need to wait 16 hours for it to recharge. To teleport back to said camp and save yourself another 10 minutes is another 16 hours. So basically, you can teleport form your questing-area to town and back once every day and a third.

That's great except your equipment will break after about 2 hours of killing a mob the first time your grinding mobs. The next time you grind mobs, you'll find it takes only 1 hour even after repairing? Why b/c repairing only repairs your equipment to 50% unless your skilled as a crafter in the type of craft that makes your gear and have a certain minimum level of proficiency. So here we have that ackward situation of ...punished...for playing for more than an hour practically similar to that 4 guildeves per day. Done 4 quests? Get ready to grind! Need to repair! You've been playing too long. One hour passed. Get ready for 20 minutes of walking to town and back or use your teleport power that'll take a day and a third to teleport back. Your choice! Either way, its fairly boring 'walking' in a virtual world in order to repair your equipment to 50% health. Having a repair vendor at each camp would greatly simplify leveling.

If your a wow player, can you imagine having to travel all the way from Tanaris, Felwood or Ungoro creater to ommigar and back everytime you want to repair b/c there's no repair vendor in any cities except Ommigar, UC, TB, Shat and Dalaran? Just the 'Major' cities? Can you then imagine those repairer's only repairing your gear to 50% health unless you shout in /2 for a blacksmith to repair your gear and then trade him money? You'd probably think it a bit lame compared to having a repair vendor in each 'city' and a waste of time to need to spend 20 minutes traveling per every 1 hour of questing. You'd find it even more strange if there was a max of 1 hour worth of quests a day and then you could only grind mobs to level. Weirder yet if you get penalized for working with other players in an mmorpg.

The only other grip is the rediculously unintuitive and extremely slow menu system. An example is adding a player to your friends list. You bring up the main menu (3 second lag), click on social (3 seconds of lag), then go to friends list (3 seconds of lag) then go to add friend (3 seconds of lag) then 'two' boxes pop up. One for first name and one for last name.

This is aggrevating for two reasons. 1. To enter a player name, you need to click on the first box, move your hands to the keyboard type the first name...then click on the second box, and then move your hands to the keyboard again and type the last name. Would it have been THAT hard to make 1 long text box and have the user type "Sarah Connor" instead of "John" then need a mouse click and then type "conner"?

Better yet, why not stick to Internet CONVENTIONS and operating system CONVENTIONS? Most advanced or reasonably advanced computer users at one time or another have entered information into a forum or a field. For example if your on hotmail.com entering your email address and password. Once you've entered in your email address, how do you move to the next box to type in your password? the TAB key. How to you move from field 1 to field 2 in a retail commercial environment the TAB KEY. How do you move from first name box to last name box using only your keyboard in FF14? The ENTER key. ... The ...enter key. Anything about that seem slightly odd and unconventional?

What about just a single box and typing "Sarah conner" and square soft figuring out that sarah is the first name and conner is the last name by looking for the "Space" in the name? That would be extremely easy from a programming perspective. Learning to manipulate strings is taught usually in the 2nd or 3rd class of a FIRST YEAR or NOVICE computer proramming class. Square managed to even make adding a friends list complicated and time-consuming. Literately, it takes 30 seconds to add 1 friend if you use the menu system. If you are in a party of 10 people, it would take you 5 minutes to add people to your friends list. That's....actually...a while when most of the time your waiting for a very slow ui to respond.

No auction house is a real killer imo. Every mmorpg out there has an Auction House now adays. Sure FFXI could be forgiven for not having an AH if it didn't have one. It was one of the first mmorpgs but fast forward 10 years later and still not AH? What the heck is going on here? All they have is a 'Player Sell Stuff' area where you have to teleport in/out to a tiny little instanced area where a 100 different individual player shops are setup. Each one taking 15-20 seconds to browse only to find out they are only selling crafting materials and nothing finished(Ie a weapon/sword/armor/earring you can use). To check each of the 100 different vendors, at 20 seconds each literately means you might spend 40 minutes shopping to try to find an item to wear. Compare that to an AH feature in most games where you setup a search and in about 15s you can find all the level __ gear for your class/job and have it sorted by lowest to highest price.

What else... Game crashes anytime I try to tab out of fullscreen mode to check msn/for new emails/whatever but multitasking out of windows mode works just fine.

Its like there's so many things they tried to improve upon in FF14 and a few flaws from FF11 that they ironed out. Including there being a slightly faster combat system to make it more fun perhaps. At the same time most the flaws that made FF11 so unpopular still exist with new flaws being introduced.



I will give the game this: Music is probably a 8-9/10. Graphics are quite good. Probably a 8-9/10 but not much better in LOTRO in DX10 ultra high settings if you've tried that game. The downside is that Gameplay is a 3/10 from what I've experienced and the fun factor is probaly like a 5/10 because grinding mobs gets extremely boring. I can't imagine how many mobs I'd need to grind to reach max level. Grinding is made more boring by the extremely limited number of guildeves you can do. 4 quests per 24 hours, ugh. Not to mention, if I want to be a healer, its 10-20% the speed of any other class when your in a group and if FF14 proves to be anything like FF11, I'll probably need to be in a group by the time I reach rank 20. So for me, as a player who primarily plays as a healer. Right now: The game really is THAT bad that I am strongly considering cancelling my pre-order.

Who wants to level/grind extremely slowly for helping out your group? Have nothing to do but grinding beyond your first 40 minutes a day and never be able to find a party even if you want to party? Deal with a laggy ui and need to repair every hour and spend 20 minutes of every hour walking to and from repair points? Need to spend a huge amount of time looking through vendors to find a single item to wear rather than there existing an AH. Apparently, all the ppl who still want to play FF14?

I really wanted to like FF14 too... really really wanted to. For a few reasons, I thought it would help me maybe able to practice my Japanese language skills more often so I could communicate better with my Japanese-Canadian gf. I didn't mind FF11. I enjoyed Chrono trigger, chrono cross, super mario rpg, ff3-13, etc. I figured SE/SS couldn't miss with FF14. I was astounded by the great graphics in the FF14 benchmark tool.

That and I am getting very tired of Wow's saturday-morning cartoon graphics and a bit discouraged by LOTRO going F2p. I want an mmorpg to play and I thought FF14 was the answer. I thought I'd really enjoy the ultra-realism graphics, world, setting, gameplay/combat system and leveling system. Everything looked so good on paper but the fun/gameplay factor just isn't there. I thought wong I'm afriad.

Now, what do I do? Wait for cataclsym to go through the gearing-up hamster on a treadmill phase in Wow? Have maybe three months of fun running the 8 new dungeons, 4 revamped dungeons and 3-4 new raids promised at launch? That's my most appealing mmorpg prospect in the near future and I'm looking forward to that more than FF14.
#290joodas, Posted: Sep 20 2010 at 1:49 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Theres your issue. Youre thinking about WoW. FFXIV is not WoW , but for arguments sake, WoW does not have instant teleports to your home cities and back to your quest area, its not like i have to fly for 8 mins from ungoro crater all the way back to orgrimmar .
#291 Sep 20 2010 at 1:51 AM Rating: Good
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joodas wrote:
Theres your issue. Youre thinking about WoW. FFXIV is not WoW , but for arguments sake, WoW does not have instant teleports to your home cities and back to your quest area, its not like i have to fly for 8 mins from ungoro crater all the way back to orgrimmar


Your missing the point. You can repair in any of those cities. You don't need to fly to ommigar to repair your gear every hour. You can repair it right in felwood/tanaris city...
#292 Sep 20 2010 at 1:53 AM Rating: Good
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joodas wrote:

You'll never like FF no matter how similar they make it to WoW (god forbid) because at the end of the day it just isnt WoW

Edited, Sep 20th 2010 3:51am by joodas


I think in your 'attack him as a wow player! Damage Control!' you may have missed the part where I said I didn't mind FF11 and enjoy FF games? I have a lvl 75 whm/rdm in ff11.
#293joodas, Posted: Sep 20 2010 at 2:06 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) im a wow player too. im aware u dont need to fly, because if you had to it'd take a whole 10 mins. its actually faster to teleport back to uldah and repair in final fantasy 14, than to run from razorfen downs to camp taurahe ( in WoW) [ both in the same area : the barrens] .
#294 Sep 20 2010 at 2:31 AM Rating: Good
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joodas wrote:
im a wow player too. im aware u dont need to fly, because if you had to it'd take a whole 10 mins. its actually faster to teleport back to uldah and repair in final fantasy 14, than to run from razorfen downs to camp taurahe ( in WoW) [ both in the same area : the barrens] .

so, the way i see it, WoW needs a fix? :)


Oh god, please read the original post where it talks about the recharge rate of Anima being 1 Anima per 4 hours. It takes 8 Anima to teleport back/forth or 32 hours worth. Basically 1 day + 1/3rd of a day's worth of teleport power. At that rate, if you teleport often your going to run out quickly and need to run for 10 minutes to town then 10 minutes back from town. Hence the anology of having to fly to ommigar and back to repair. Which as you said would take about 10 minutes. Get the analogy now? The one already explained in my original post that you may not have read judging by your reponse?
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