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Laggy Cursor / EverythingFollow

#1 Sep 04 2010 at 12:14 AM Rating: Good
3 posts
Am I the only one?

Even the PATCHER (That slim dialog box with a couple progress bars you sat watching for 12 hours) was extremely laggy for me and had a 1 second cursor delay, which makes me believe it's not a graphics card issue. It seems like DirectX or something, but I have made sure I have the latest.

I'm running Win XP SP3 on a 3.4GHz dual core, geforce 250GTS, 3gigs of DDR2 (not sure exact speeds). The cursor is always laggy, the graphics are laggy and skippy, loads take much longer than they should for an MMO.

I'd use the search function, but it's a premium only... (LOOOL). Anybody else having this problem? Has it been addressed?
#2 Sep 04 2010 at 12:31 AM Rating: Default
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you must not come on here almost ever or have ever heard anyone speak of a BETA before.

answer to OP: this is beta.

Edited, Sep 4th 2010 2:32am by pixelpop
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#3 Sep 04 2010 at 12:36 AM Rating: Decent
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What's your problem? Are you a resident troll? Or resident "This is BETA so you shouldn't try to fix your problems" nut?

I'm not saying it's a bad game. I'm asking if it's a known issue and if there are any fixes. If you're not going to be helpful then stop spamming to up your post count.
#4 Sep 04 2010 at 12:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Use a controller, only way to ditch the lag atm. Even the computer I have that scored well enough to play the beta is having major issues randomly with a wacky cursor.

As some have said, this is beta, so there are bug a plenty.
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#5 Sep 04 2010 at 12:43 AM Rating: Default
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whatever.
my point is that it would take 5 minutes of googling or clicking through a few related links on here to realize that betas are always ultra buggy and laggy.

alot of the times things like the UI is set server side for various reasons including so that the developers can keep a more accurate eye on what its activity, and because of that, the signals pressed from buttons tend to take longer ultimately do its thing.
also, betas are meant for server capacity stress test, they right now are still figuring out how much the servers can handle before people start lagging out too badly and crash. which is basicly happening to everyone and their maxi pads.

oh and yeah im a troll with my 77 posts....

Edited, Sep 4th 2010 2:44am by pixelpop
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#6 Sep 04 2010 at 12:50 AM Rating: Decent
16 posts
The "This is beta" excuse works fine in phase 1 and phase 2, but when you are mere weeks from launching the game you should be worrying about polish and minor bugs and stress testing. Things like the cursor lag should have been taken care of months ago. It is because for whatever reason the devs refuse to support hardware mouse and with an already laggy UI, you also get a laggy software mouse. We can only pray that the devs hear the outcry and implement a hardware mouse option like every other PC game, but considering we are 3 weeks from launch and a function as basic as this isn't fixed, I doubt it will be.

Don't get me wrong, I think the game has great potential, but it scares me that the devs have seemed to overlook the most basic of issues. I think they set a time line that they couldn't meet. I think as a whole people would have been much happier if they would have just pushed both PC and PS3 releases to march. A lot needs to be fixed in the next 3 weeks and I just don't see it happening. As is, the game is playable, but barely. The hard core fans will say, but releasing with a half finished product is just going to ensure that people on the fence, and especially critics of the previous MMO (of which there are many) are going to walk right on by and not give this game the fair chance it deserves.
#7 Sep 04 2010 at 12:53 AM Rating: Good
MesiahUnicorn wrote:
As is, the game is playable, but barely.


I don't know what game you are playing but the one I am playing is pretty fan-frigging-tastic.

Yeah it has issues. But none of them are gamebreaking.
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#8 Sep 04 2010 at 1:08 AM Rating: Good
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If you are expecting an aion,wow,lineage,every other mmo mouse and kb style control you are probably going to be disappointed. From what I've played through and experienced from b3 and ob this game interface was designed for ease of use on the ps3. Gamepads work great, in particular the 360 controller maps perfect. I guess comprimises were made to pc control to ensure a better experience on the ps3. They probably didn't have the time for 2 different UI's.

Edited, Sep 4th 2010 3:20am by rubypenguin
#9 Sep 04 2010 at 1:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Since when is the mentality of beta, don't look for bugs or mention them to anybody else?

OP just asked about the software mouse. Which is definetly brutal. Don't think anybody has a solution though. It's there to gather data and/or as an anti-bot.
#10 Sep 04 2010 at 1:10 AM Rating: Good
16 posts
The underlying concepts are great. Like I said, it has the potential to be an awesome game. But come on, don't let your love of the FF franchise and incredible graphics blind you to the fact that the controls on this game are terrible, and telling PC users they have to use a game pad is just as ridiculous as telling ps3 users they have to use a keyboard. and it lacks even the most basic of features that the previous game already had, like... the ability to sort inventory, or the ability to invite party members without having to stand right next to them. A lot of little things that you expect to just work are either busted or non-existent. And while this is still beta, it is the end of the beta cycle. I think all of these problems will be fixed in time, but I also think SE should have given themselves a little more time to fix them.

Edited, Sep 4th 2010 3:12am by MesiahUnicorn
#11 Sep 04 2010 at 1:20 AM Rating: Good
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Amen man. Some things don't even make sense at this point. The game is launching in a little over 2 weeks, but Alt-tabbing crashes the game lol.

Tab selects enemies 90miles away first over the dude infront of you 4/5 times.
#12 Sep 04 2010 at 1:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Tab selects enemies 90miles away first over the dude infront of you 4/5 times.

lol yep thats a fun one when the mole jumps back out of the ground, but no the game wants you to attack yourself even though your slamming your face on the tab button.

i know its beta, and actually the game is like a hoooot *** super model from the victoria secrets runway fashion show but just got eaten by star jones, the ugly just needs to go away first and you got yourself a gem.
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#13 Sep 04 2010 at 1:52 AM Rating: Good
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So the laggy cursor and interface isn't a bug? It's intended? If that's the case, I won't be bothered. For me, it's unplayable.

Thanks for the info. Hopefully they change their mind, or it turns out to actually be a beta deal. I've always been a final fantasy fan, but my MMOs are played with keyboard + mouse, period.
#14 Sep 04 2010 at 2:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah being a software mouse, it's not up to my personal standards either. If they implement hardware mouse it'd be nice, but they may have reasons for not doing so. And no, I dislike using a controller for an MMO as well. You just don't get the "control" a properly set up keyboard/mouse gives you.
#15 Sep 04 2010 at 2:28 AM Rating: Excellent
rrowland wrote:
So the laggy cursor and interface isn't a bug? It's intended? If that's the case, I won't be bothered. For me, it's unplayable.

Thanks for the info. Hopefully they change their mind, or it turns out to actually be a beta deal. I've always been a final fantasy fan, but my MMOs are played with keyboard + mouse, period.


Mouse for movement is fine. Mouse for selecting things from menus is bad. Menus in general are bad. Clunky, poorly laid out, and counter intuitive at almost every step. It's as though SE took a step back to the DOS era of interfaces and decided to use that as their frame of comparison. As far as holding the right mouse button and moving from side to side, it's absolutely fine, and that's where the mouse functionality matters the most It would be nice if SE could pick up on this new fangled concept called "drag and drop" instead of designing everything for keyboard only or controller only or controller + keyboard, all with mouse use as an afterthought. Setting up action bars is ridiculous. Beyond ridiculous, actually...it's atrocious. No game company with a game 5+ years in development has any excuse for such a shoddy system.

Key mapping as it currently exists is weak. They'd have an easier time getting away with shoddy mouse response for navigating menus if they allowed you to bind more common menu selections to hotkeys. Why, oh why, oh why they decided you need 4 (6) keys to move, 4 to adjust the camera, and another four to move the full screen map I have absolutely no idea. Trim the fat, rebind the camera keys to something useful (since that's one area the mouse does rather nicely) and hopefully there will be enough mapping options that you can toggle most menu features with a sideways sweep of your left index finger.

Mouse movement...the one major area that would have sunk the game in the eyes of a lot of people...is adequate. No option to hold left + right mouse buttons for forward movement right now (haven't messed around to see if you can bind as alternate), but at least you can whip the camera around in a heartbeat and navigate in a fight without your fingers getting all jumbled up trying to activate action bar items + movement. No gamepad pro-star (and certainly no keyboard onry enthusiast) is going to be matching the response times of the keyboard and mouse crowd for getting on target in a dicey situation.

So yes, mouse as a generic interface option is poor right now. For the record, my PC scored between 4800-5800 on the highres benchmark (depending on how much I wanted to torture it with the overclocking) and my version check/patch screen mouse response was ludicrous. I'm talking so slow that I could move the mouse across the pane from one corner to the other and if I went off the edge, I'd have on XIV hand cursor stalled in the middle of the update window and a normal windows cursor moving around the pane on the desktop. Do keep in mind, however, that this isn't the pre-release evaluation you're taking part in. This is a beta test, and if your response to things not working as you might expect them to is to say ***** it and not pay for the retail release, you might as well just pack it in now and cut the lag for the folks who might actually be interested in voicing their feedback in the appropriate forums to up the chances of something being done about it.

SE is going to have tens of thousands of people breathing down their necks about a shoddy UI when the game goes live. They're either going to feel compelled to get it right and stop being so bloody stubborn with the console BS, or they're going to find themselves with another overbudget Aion on their hands. The game is pretty and if you can get some lag free windows to get a feel for it the way the devs intended, it's a decent offering. It's just not decent enough for them to leave such glaring deficiencies in their design plan and expect to get away with it.
#16 Sep 04 2010 at 2:32 AM Rating: Excellent
9 posts
I am always astounded by the "Its BETA!!!" crowd. I have seen so many disappointing MMOs come and go, and in open beta everyone pointed out issues like this, and every time there are alot of people who make that response. And every time the issues go live.

Open Betas are NOT for finding bugs. They are mainly for stress testing the servers.

That means the hardware cursor problem MAY get fixed before go-live, crafting/harvesting lag MAY get fixed by go-live, we MAY get sortable inventories by go-live,etc...etc... But odds are these things will not be fixed. What you see now is essentially the finished product.

I personally hope that I am wrong and these things are addressed during open beta, but if they are not, my pre-order is probably getting cancelled. Maybe I'll pick it up on the PS3, if I'm gonna be playing a console game I might as well play it on a console.
#17 Sep 04 2010 at 2:58 AM Rating: Good
12 posts
I hear they are making the ps3 versions UI optimized for dance pads since they are all the rage in japan these days.
#18 Sep 04 2010 at 3:08 AM Rating: Default
16 posts
I won't totally count SE out... net just yet. I beta tested Star Trek Online (Don't laugh) and as much as I dislike cryptic studious, they really turned things around at the 11th hour. The difference between the start of open beta and the release of the game was astounding, and open beta only lasted for a couple weeks.

So, it isn't impossible that many of the major flaws will be fixed in time for release, but it still isn't likely. The best thing we can do right now is be extremely critical of the flaws. Discuss them on official forums as well as fan sites. The devs ARE listening. That much is evident by the recent flip out then apology about "Speculation on foreign sites" by Tanaka. The more we ***** about the flaws, the more time they will spend working on those instead of making sure some NPCs hair is parted just right. And if the game releases in the state it is in today, it won't just be the established community complaining. It will be the gaming community as a whole, led by gaming sites and magazines. If that happens this game could very possibly die a quick death, and I for one think it deserves better than that.
#19 Sep 06 2010 at 5:26 AM Rating: Good
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I doubt anyone will check this thread anymore, but I'll update if they do.

Hardware mouse patch: http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/13698/ffxiv-mouse-lag-fix/

Laggy cursor resolved, now we wait for the laggy UI to be resolved.
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#20 Sep 06 2010 at 7:02 AM Rating: Good
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Holy CRAP Cliff is a friggin' genius.

I can't post for 8 hours, anyone else mind asking him or some other hacker to take a look at/maybe fix the "CPU Core being eaten up by ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" issue? Because I'm seeing it reported on other places and you probably have it too even if you don't know it.
#21 Sep 06 2010 at 12:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I am always astounded by the "Its BETA!!!" crowd. I have seen so many disappointing MMOs come and go, and in open beta everyone pointed out issues like this, and every time there are alot of people who make that response. And every time the issues go live.

Open Betas are NOT for finding bugs. They are mainly for stress testing the servers.

That means the hardware cursor problem MAY get fixed before go-live, crafting/harvesting lag MAY get fixed by go-live, we MAY get sortable inventories by go-live,etc...etc... But odds are these things will not be fixed. What you see now is essentially the finished product.

I personally hope that I am wrong and these things are addressed during open beta, but if they are not, my pre-order is probably getting cancelled. Maybe I'll pick it up on the PS3, if I'm gonna be playing a console game I might as well play it on a console.


Agreed, I've been in multiple open betas, and it is my experiance that bugs in open beta generaly stick around for 3-6 months (if you're lucky). This type of major issue needs to be fixed much earlier in the chain - especially when there is a fix (see the link above to the hack), and Square just hasn't enabled it.
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#22 Sep 06 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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snkline wrote:
I am always astounded by the "Its BETA!!!" crowd. I have seen so many disappointing MMOs come and go, and in open beta everyone pointed out issues like this, and every time there are alot of people who make that response. And every time the issues go live.

Open Betas are NOT for finding bugs. They are mainly for stress testing the servers.

That means the hardware cursor problem MAY get fixed before go-live, crafting/harvesting lag MAY get fixed by go-live, we MAY get sortable inventories by go-live,etc...etc... But odds are these things will not be fixed. What you see now is essentially the finished product.

I personally hope that I am wrong and these things are addressed during open beta, but if they are not, my pre-order is probably getting cancelled. Maybe I'll pick it up on the PS3, if I'm gonna be playing a console game I might as well play it on a console.
I'm curious as to how long the argument will get used. "It's just alpha!" "It's just beta!" "It just got released!" "It's only been out a few months!"
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#23 Sep 06 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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Mouse for movement is fine. Mouse for selecting things from menus is bad. Menus in general are bad. Clunky, poorly laid out, and counter intuitive at almost every step. It's as though SE took a step back to the DOS era of interfaces and decided to use that as their frame of comparison. As far as holding the right mouse button and moving from side to side, it's absolutely fine, and that's where the mouse functionality matters the most It would be nice if SE could pick up on this new fangled concept called "drag and drop" instead of designing everything for keyboard only or controller only or controller + keyboard, all with mouse use as an afterthought. Setting up action bars is ridiculous. Beyond ridiculous, actually...it's atrocious. No game company with a game 5+ years in development has any excuse for such a shoddy system.

Key mapping as it currently exists is weak. They'd have an easier time getting away with shoddy mouse response for navigating menus if they allowed you to bind more common menu selections to hotkeys. Why, oh why, oh why they decided you need 4 (6) keys to move, 4 to adjust the camera, and another four to move the full screen map I have absolutely no idea. Trim the fat, rebind the camera keys to something useful (since that's one area the mouse does rather nicely) and hopefully there will be enough mapping options that you can toggle most menu features with a sideways sweep of your left index finger.

Mouse movement...the one major area that would have sunk the game in the eyes of a lot of people...is adequate. No option to hold left + right mouse buttons for forward movement right now (haven't messed around to see if you can bind as alternate), but at least you can whip the camera around in a heartbeat and navigate in a fight without your fingers getting all jumbled up trying to activate action bar items + movement. No gamepad pro-star (and certainly no keyboard onry enthusiast) is going to be matching the response times of the keyboard and mouse crowd for getting on target in a dicey situation.

So yes, mouse as a generic interface option is poor right now. For the record, my PC scored between 4800-5800 on the highres benchmark (depending on how much I wanted to torture it with the overclocking) and my version check/patch screen mouse response was ludicrous. I'm talking so slow that I could move the mouse across the pane from one corner to the other and if I went off the edge, I'd have on XIV hand cursor stalled in the middle of the update window and a normal windows cursor moving around the pane on the desktop. Do keep in mind, however, that this isn't the pre-release evaluation you're taking part in. This is a beta test, and if your response to things not working as you might expect them to is to say ***** it and not pay for the retail release, you might as well just pack it in now and cut the lag for the folks who might actually be interested in voicing their feedback in the appropriate forums to up the chances of something being done about it.

SE is going to have tens of thousands of people breathing down their necks about a shoddy UI when the game goes live. They're either going to feel compelled to get it right and stop being so bloody stubborn with the console BS, or they're going to find themselves with another overbudget Aion on their hands. The game is pretty and if you can get some lag free windows to get a feel for it the way the devs intended, it's a decent offering. It's just not decent enough for them to leave such glaring deficiencies in their design plan and expect to get away with it.

+1 internets to you, and quoted in case anyone skipped it over.
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#24 Sep 06 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
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DAOWAce wrote:
I doubt anyone will check this thread anymore, but I'll update if they do.

Hardware mouse patch: http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/13698/ffxiv-mouse-lag-fix/

Laggy cursor resolved, now we wait for the laggy UI to be resolved.



holy crap, it works lol, these guys always make SE look like idiots when it comes to interface.

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#25 Sep 06 2010 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Laggy cursor resolved, now we wait for the laggy UI to be resolved.


I don't think this is broken in the sense that we feel it is.

I can't prove it, but I suspect they do this specifically, that somehow consoles require it to be done this way and so that's the way it's optimized (even though the PC version is not a console port, it's still a program designed primarily with consoles in mind)

Quote:
you must not come on here almost ever or have ever heard anyone speak of a BETA before.


And you can tell those who have never run a beta before because, with 16 days until RTM, they think we're still testing software bugs instead of hardware stress testing. You're not looking at any major fixes/changes between now and beta.

Maybe the first or 2nd PATCH to the game, but not the RC.

So stop trying to ram this non-excuse down everyone's throats. Seriously.
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#26 Sep 06 2010 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent
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I was (until yesterday) a fully paid up and subscribed member to the "I will play this game on keyboard and mouse or not at all club". How dare SE force me to play their game with a controller.

Then yesterday, I bit the bullet - purchased an xbox 360 wired controller, plugged it in, set it up and......

All is amazing in the world. The game, the menus, the interface - everything works 200 times better with a gamepad. I honestly cant tell you how different it is. Like I said, I hate the idea of playing with a gamepad until I tried it.

I dont care what SE said, this game was designed to be played with a pad, not a keyboard. I am a convert - suddenly all of my issues (well, most) have been fixed.

As for laggy mouse - this actually is one area where the "its beta" cry might apply. During beta MMO's typically collect info about the way people are playing in order to assist in identifying exploits, and understand how the gamer is interacting with the game. Not so long ago, commands in fights were also laggy. Expect a big improvement as they client side this functionality for retail release rather than keeping it server side.

One other point - I think you are running with a graphics card which is below minimum spec. That will be the cause of massive amounts of lag.
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