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FFXIV - Flawed game mechanics?Follow

#1 Sep 04 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
11 posts
I have a few game flaws that I have noticed from playing ffxiv beta that I would like to address to see if others feel the same way. Please, correct me if my judgment is wrong on any of these topics as I would like to buy this game if these problems will be fixed. What I am saying at the beginning of this is related to FFXI, I already know not to compare ffxi to ffxiv as they are two totally different games as with all ff games, I am only trying to help the point I am trying to make, so please don't bash me for that.

First off, I have played ffxi for a good 4 years and loved everything about it. I started playing at the same time it was released for ps2. I remember trying to group in my 40's on samurai desperately trying to find a party for a good 3-5 hours. Now, those of you who never played ffxi during that time period may think "what a waste, I'd quit that game if it took me that long just to get a party". It was how things were on my server, and it was worth it because the community was amazing, and as I got into these long waited parties, I made many friends who would invite me the second I was looking for a group. So basically, if you knew how to play your job and were a decent person you would make friends and have a great time. I've never been on an mmo before where the people that I'm playing with are so nice. I feel that the whole party only aspect of the game at that time was great because you would make a name for yourself on the server. Ok, on with relating this to ffxiv... I know that SE takes a lot of what the community says into account when creating video games, especially this one, which is why I believe they have taken it too far. People said that they didn't want to have to party all the time to level (first thing that comes to mind when hearing this is..who wants to play online...alone? its the whole reason you play an mmo in the first place, to have fun with others). So, SE, after hearing this, they pretty much made this game not party friendly and I will explain why:

1. In order for players to rank up their job as a disciple of war or magic, they must deal damage to the target. The experience for your job is based on how often you attack as the experience is given AFTER doing each attack...seriously? what kind of system is that? everyone should get the same amount of experience at the END of the fight or else other jobs will be overleveling or underleveling in a group environment, it will be chaotic. So group leveling outside of guild leves will be a waste because of this.

2. If you only get experience for the damage you do, healers are screwed! If you heal in a party you do not get experience for that heal, only if you do damage to the monster. Tell me if this is wrong please, it looks this way from what I've seen. So why would a healer want to waste mana on a heal if their not going to get experience for it? Might as well just dps. Also, with the way mp is treated (no refresh) it will only make people want to do guild leves, and once those leves are done, no one will want to group level due to mana issues/constraints by not being near the aetheryte while party grinding. I really don't see why SE would change healing so drastically, when they had it correct in ffxi. If you look at the 2009 vana'diel census white mage(healer) took most played spot #3 in the survey results, and #1 in game data results. Final fantasy games are supposed to have a great deal of magic, not many players WANT to be a healer, so if you don't give your casters an incentive to play, they will not exist.

3. When I am on a server, I like to take note of the community (since this is a SE game, i have high expectations). From what I saw on the open beta, no one really talks, which I find odd with all the people lol, its ok though, i dont really care about that.. its when I ask questions I usually get smart remarks or immature ones at best. /sigh, I just really hope this doesn't turn out to be a WoW community, but I wouldn't be too shocked if it did, I really feel that party only is how it should have been with a little bit of solo leveling to easily weed out the immature people from the rest. I did meet some nice/helpful people though, so I'm glad to see that :).

4. Im sure this will be fixed, but I couldn't find map tracking for party members, its annoying lol.

So, in conclusion, there doesn't seem to be much outside of leve quests; I guess this is to make it more casual... which is why there is no point in the surplus system as players wont be leveling insanely fast anyway as leves reset every 48hours. Surplus system isnt all bad though, it helps your main job to be better by having other job abilities. I'd rather work to get new abilities for my main job than endlessly grind on my main with super slow exp. Don't get me wrong, this is a good game with many perks, but I feel SE will lose a lot of their fan base if some of these problems are not addressed. Please let me know what you all think, and PLEASE let me know if i have a wrong impression on how things work, thank you.

Game experience: FFXI (4yrs), WoW(6k gs), Guildwars(Short time), Everquest2(short time)
#2 Sep 04 2010 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
1,061 posts
Well for number 3 at least you can't gauge the community for this game yet, especially since 1, it's free and anyone can get in right now, and 2, every game always has a bunch of haters or people who are ******** at the beginning, online or off. As time goes on depending on the game they leave of their own volition for other games usually.
#3 Sep 04 2010 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
1,536 posts
Dunno how SE plans to make group play plausible with the way the system is atm're right TC these are legitimate concerns if you want group play, and I do, but like you said so far you only get rank xp by hitting the mob so group play is competition between your team members - the only thing that you're not competing for is physical xp but i don't think anyone even cares about that.
#4 Sep 04 2010 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
11 posts
exactly solidmack, it creates competition between your own party members, that is something you DON'T want in a pve based game. Competition is a good way to cause unnecessary arguing amongst the party and is a buzz kill for everyone.

Again, please let me know if anyone else is noticing these flaws, and if so, let me know if you have a good method to cope with it, or if you have any input at all, thanks :)
#5 Sep 04 2010 at 6:29 PM Rating: Good
1,636 posts
I don't think SE intended to have a WHM style healer, and that they wanted heals coming in between nukes. but it still doesn't seem to be working. The problem, is that they can't let heals/buffs gives exp all the time, cause people could just powerlevel in town. Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no differentiating between active mode in combat, or active mode out of combat. Ideally buffs/heals cast in combat could give exp, but that only works of that distinction is made.

#6 Sep 04 2010 at 6:30 PM Rating: Default
196 posts
Yeah the party system is bull **** and.. the party search function is even worse... I hardly find it worth my time to even party.. Just make a glass cannon mage.. and just solo the dam game by yourself.. much more plausible.. then finding a party.. and find that everyone slapping around the same mob hardly nets good exp..
WoW: we want to give players a more fun time with less grinding and generic quests
GW2: we want the player to feel like they are leveling while doing something fun
Final Fantasy XIV: we want less fun and more grinding
#7 Sep 04 2010 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
11 posts
off the top of my head, in order to fix the party issue is maybe, make mobs tougher to force a party scene. Also, make guild leves give xp upon completion, but give the difficulties that aren't soloable give a great deal more xp. A cool feature would be to be able to choose xp or gil for a quest, so you get the option (good thing to have at max level).
#8 Sep 04 2010 at 9:48 PM Rating: Decent
2,153 posts
off the top of my head, in order to fix the party issue is maybe, make mobs tougher to force a party scene.

This. Right now guildleve mobs are just a button-mashing zerg contest. Don't even think about cooperating and using buffs/debuffs/heals. It'll just cost you your EXP.
#9 Sep 04 2010 at 9:55 PM Rating: Decent
19 posts
off the top of my head, in order to fix the party issue is maybe, make mobs tougher to force a party scene.

This. Right now guildleve mobs are just a button-mashing zerg contest. Don't even think about cooperating and using buffs/debuffs/heals. It'll just cost you your EXP

Yes. Let's just force everyone to group. Sure. Why not? /sarcasm.
#10 Sep 04 2010 at 10:21 PM Rating: Good
1,061 posts
Why force a party scene by buffing monsters when you can just roam around with friends and kill stuff together or go solo? I mean, I'd rather keep monsters relatively easy and have the option of soloing or grouping rather than turn the game into FFXI-2 where you need a group and a set camp to wipe your own **** at times, haha.

I do agree that you should get skill points for heals, but only heals on party members who actually have damage to heal.That way it discourages PLing and doesn't leave exploits in where you constantly heal yourself to max level
#11 Sep 04 2010 at 10:26 PM Rating: Decent
751 posts
You make a number of very relevant points.

I have a few questions of my own though:

1) What level are you in beta
2) What level did you start grouping in ffxi
3) What level were you when you really started to get into good parties in Ffxi
4) At what level did RDM get the Refresh spell
5) How do you know Se will not implement a refresh spell in FFXIV
6) How do you know Conjurers wont get exp for healing in final release
7) During those 3 hour waits for a party in FFXI, wouldnt it have been nice to have something to do solo?
FFXIV: Crafty Hallie, Ultros

#12 Sep 04 2010 at 10:29 PM Rating: Decent
11 posts
I know that there should be a solo aspect to the game, but right now, partying is completely pointless outside of leves. If these game mechanics go into launch, I would suggest waiting a good 3-4 months until they are ironed out, just like what happened to ffxi. It needed work, and it was fixed by ps2 release date. I feel that very same time frame is going to come into play here, at ps3 release.
#13 Sep 04 2010 at 10:31 PM Rating: Decent
11 posts
why so many questions about me lol? your only two real questions are basically "what if's".. anyone could say "what if this" or "what if that", these are game mechanics, I'm not trying to just bash the game...
#14 Sep 04 2010 at 11:03 PM Rating: Default
415 posts
No one talking has to do with half the people being Japanese. I wish SE would have servers by region so this won't be an issue. There is no point in putting Japanese and English speaking people on the same servers if the community is going to segregate itself anyway.
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