Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2 3 4
This Forum is Read Only

They need to push launch back..Follow

#1 Sep 04 2010 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
20 posts
Seriously. Too buggy to be this close to Launch. New possible subscribers are not going to see past the "IT'S BETA PEOPLE or GAME JUST CAME OUT IT WILL BE FIXED "SOON"" I'm one to give it a chance but many others i can see not wanting to give it a chance especially when you can play other pay2play MMO's that are so crisp and polished while offering much more or even go play something like LOTRO which is becoming Free2Play in about a week or so.

I say delay it a little bit to make Launch seem much smoother than it's going to be at this rate, unless SE can make magic happen in these next few weeks.
#2 Sep 04 2010 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
**
327 posts
"AGAIN?!"

- Rocky, "Rocky & Bullwinkle Show"

Seriously, this isn't the first MMO that had a less than optimal Beta. This is not the first MMO that is set to be released, without issues. It's sure as **** not the first MMO to start off with its fair share of haters, naysayers, and disbelievers. I can draw up many things that I don't like, as easily as I can point out what I do like. The awesome thing about MMO's (with a great support staff) is that it is dynamic. The game a year from now, can be much different than the game at launch.

If you played any MMO for several years, especially since it's start, I'm more than certain you've experienced a multitude of changes over it's course. But ultimately: don't worry about who becomes alienated due to what is. Just worry about if YOU will play the game or not.

Edited, Sep 4th 2010 3:19pm by LordDVS
____________________________

FFXI - LordDVS <Bismarck> BLU75 DRK75 SAM75 BST75 PLD75


#3 Sep 04 2010 at 6:01 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
2,495 posts
I have been around, and a part of, more MMO releases than I can remember. EQII, DDO, LOTRO, WoW, AoC, and V:SoH, just to name some of the bigger ones. Honestly, I have yet to see a bug free release.

The majority of my current gripes with the game are server related, which is what the open beta is meant to address. Are the little bugs here and there going to get fixed before release, probably not. Should the window, menu, and mouse lag have made it this far, no, but it's being addressed.

People who expect a clean MMO release are either delusional, or have no idea what is involved in an MMO. I'll reserve my final judgment for a few days before release, but so far the issues are relatively minor.
#4 Sep 04 2010 at 9:53 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
*
246 posts
Open Beta has been a huge improvement over Closed Beta Phase 3.

I've actually spent about 10 hours playing in the last 2 days. In Phase 3, I would be completely sick of the game after an hour because of all the bugs.

I'm enjoying the game much more now, and the UI/lag/errors/time outs/graphic issues should be much improved by retail release.
#5 Sep 04 2010 at 9:57 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Quote:
but so far the issues are relatively minor


Unluckily, I can not agree. Server connection/R0/crashes and such are completely understandable. But things like the stupid retainer zombie dungeon, the lack of (incentive to do) skillchains and the *horrible* menu structure are just evil. How long does it take to set up some abilities or /equipaction... makros? Should it take that long in 2010? How long to compare two pieces of equipment? Or check the prices in people's bazaars (which are not even displayed unless you highlight/select the item!)? Or have each of your equipment items repaired one-by-one by 20 different guys specializing in the respective type of armor/weapon/craft? They still have a looong way to go in UI usability. But what worries me more is the logic flaws in the game system itself. Which is *not* understandable, since they managed to do better in XI.
#6 Sep 04 2010 at 10:28 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
2,495 posts
Quote:
Unluckily, I can not agree. Server connection/R0/crashes and such are completely understandable. But things like the stupid retainer zombie dungeon, the lack of (incentive to do) skillchains and the *horrible* menu structure are just evil. How long does it take to set up some abilities or /equipaction... makros? Should it take that long in 2010? How long to compare two pieces of equipment? Or check the prices in people's bazaars (which are not even displayed unless you highlight/select the item!)? Or have each of your equipment items repaired one-by-one by 20 different guys specializing in the respective type of armor/weapon/craft? They still have a looong way to go in UI usability. But what worries me more is the logic flaws in the game system itself. Which is *not* understandable, since they managed to do better in XI.


Everything you just listed is either a minor issue, or a personal preference. I think you need to learn the difference between usable and ideal. Is anything you listed making the game unplayable? No. Which would mean it isn't gamebreaking.

Have you fallen through the world and gotten stuck in nothingness requiring intervention by a GM? No. Have you gotten stuck on the topography, unable to get out, requiring intervention by a GM? No. Has your character or any of your gear vanished due to server errors or bugs? No. Have you run into a single bug that stops you from playing that specific character or log out completely until it gets fixed by a GM? No. Have you run into anything that is any more than a minor inconvenience or annoyance? No.

The server and client issues right now are to be expected, since those are the types of things an open beta is meant to address.
#7 Sep 05 2010 at 12:47 AM Rating: Decent
It's Just a Flesh Wound
******
22,699 posts
Quote:
But things like the stupid retainer zombie dungeon, the lack of (incentive to do) skillchains and the *horrible* menu structure are just evil. How long does it take to set up some abilities or /equipaction... makros? Should it take that long in 2010? How long to compare two pieces of equipment? Or check the prices in people's bazaars (which are not even displayed unless you highlight/select the item!)? Or have each of your equipment items repaired one-by-one by 20 different guys specializing in the respective type of armor/weapon/craft? They still have a looong way to go in UI usability. But what worries me more is the logic flaws in the game system itself. Which is *not* understandable, since they managed to do better in XI.


Macros so far allow me to change classes very easily. Skillchains not working are because people are incompetent (unless it's still broken.) I compare equipment in about .5 seconds, because the stats are red if they're less and green if they're better. They need to make it so that you can move your character while viewing a bazaar. UI is perfectly fine, maybe needs some minor minor changes.

Sounds more like you're just whining because you want to whine, not because there are problems with the game.
____________________________
Dear people I don't like: 凸(●´―`●)凸
#8 Sep 05 2010 at 1:01 AM Rating: Decent
Question: has any MMO that had a bad reception at launch turned around after things were fixed and new content added and became popular? Or is a bad launch a death blow to a game?

I don't think it's going to have a bad launch, but it's possible, so I'm wondering. It seems plenty of people want to be cool and have made up their mind already though. We live in the age of haters.
____________________________
Die! Die die die. die die die die, die die. - Scarlet Briar
#9 Sep 05 2010 at 1:04 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
22 posts
If I may say one thing, haters gonna hate ;)
#10 Sep 05 2010 at 1:06 AM Rating: Good
Deadgye wrote:
Quote:
But things like the stupid retainer zombie dungeon, the lack of (incentive to do) skillchains and the *horrible* menu structure are just evil. How long does it take to set up some abilities or /equipaction... makros? Should it take that long in 2010? How long to compare two pieces of equipment? Or check the prices in people's bazaars (which are not even displayed unless you highlight/select the item!)? Or have each of your equipment items repaired one-by-one by 20 different guys specializing in the respective type of armor/weapon/craft? They still have a looong way to go in UI usability. But what worries me more is the logic flaws in the game system itself. Which is *not* understandable, since they managed to do better in XI.


Macros so far allow me to change classes very easily. Skillchains not working are because people are incompetent (unless it's still broken.) I compare equipment in about .5 seconds, because the stats are red if they're less and green if they're better. They need to make it so that you can move your character while viewing a bazaar. UI is perfectly fine, maybe needs some minor minor changes.

Sounds more like you're just whining because you want to whine, not because there are problems with the game.


You shouldn't have to write a macro to bypass a trash UI. It's not 1990 anymore...nested menus and counter-intuitive systems don't belong in a cutting edge release. And the UI is far from perfectly fine. It's the worst game UI (MMO or otherwise) I've seen in years. 5 layers of menus just to transfer items from a lame loot pool into your inventory? SE isn't breaking any ground here. They can't hide behind the, "We're doing stuff that has never been done before so bear with us while we figure out the best way to do things" excuse. There's absolutely nothing in XIV that hasn't already been done somewhere else, but somehow SE has managed to pick up on a lot of ways to do it wrong and implement them. A lot of people expected a lot more from a developer that has had nearly 10 years of experience in the MMO genre to figure out what people are looking for in basic system functionality. There is a very significant segment of testers running around right now that are shaking their heads at some of SE's decisions. Denying that their are problems is, imo, a lot more counterproductive than discussing them.
#11 Sep 05 2010 at 1:06 AM Rating: Good
It's Just a Flesh Wound
******
22,699 posts
Quote:
5 layers of menus just to transfer items from a lame loot pool into your inventory?


Or you could, you know, just let the game do it automatically.
____________________________
Dear people I don't like: 凸(●´―`●)凸
#12 Sep 05 2010 at 1:08 AM Rating: Default
Avatar
**
811 posts
SE will take your suggestion to push back the launch under advisement.
Thank you for the thread.
#13 Sep 05 2010 at 1:09 AM Rating: Decent
digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Question: has any MMO that had a bad reception at launch turned around after things were fixed and new content added and became popular? Or is a bad launch a death blow to a game?

I don't think it's going to have a bad launch, but it's possible, so I'm wondering. It seems plenty of people want to be cool and have made up their mind already though. We live in the age of haters.


Warhammer had a bad reception at launch and never recovered. As did AoC and Star Trek. They may have improved in the months that followed, but the entire genre has changed in the last decade. If you drive away people now, they are a lot less likely to come back in six months because this time around, they actually have choices. If one game disappoints, people seem a lot less likely to poke around forums watching for indications that things have improved. They're a lot more likely to start following the progress of the "next great thing" around the corner.
#14 Sep 05 2010 at 1:09 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
Simple answer to your concerns Aurelius: this game is also being built for the PS3, the UI is the way it is because it has to cater to both and SE has a policy to have even grounds between the two - i.e., they don't want a UI giving the PC players a slight advantage over the PS3 players.
____________________________
MUTED
#15 Sep 05 2010 at 1:10 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
764 posts
Quote:
Question: has any MMO that had a bad reception at launch turned around after things were fixed and new content added and became popular? Or is a bad launch a death blow to a game?


WoW had an absolutely terrible launch and look at it now. Of course times have changed since then and the bar has risen, so I doubt something like that will happen again. With that, my biggest hopes for XIV's launch is the iron out the necessity issues before launch, inv sort (wtf?), retainer searching, lag (not too worried about this), grouping. Some basic tutorials would be cool, or belong pointed to the NPC's that give them. I didn't have an issue jumping in but I can from XI, and if se wants to target people new to mmo's there will need to be a better tutorial setup.
____________________________


#16 Sep 05 2010 at 1:12 AM Rating: Decent
Deadgye wrote:
Quote:
5 layers of menus just to transfer items from a lame loot pool into your inventory?


Or you could, you know, just let the game do it automatically.


Or even better, no loot pool while solo at all. And for parties, they could eliminate 3 of those layers with ease. It's a bad system. It's clunky, cumbersome, poorly thought out, and for all the inconveniences it offers absolutely no substantial benefit over more conventional systems (ie. object containers).
#17 Sep 05 2010 at 1:16 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
764 posts
I'd have to agree the loot system is odd at best in its current form, especially pooling in solo O.o I doubt it will stay this way though, but voicing our complaints is how they know...er wait were NA they may not listen to us, so maybe the JP are voicing complaints? :p
____________________________


#18 Sep 05 2010 at 1:16 AM Rating: Decent
Silverwyrm wrote:
Quote:
Question: has any MMO that had a bad reception at launch turned around after things were fixed and new content added and became popular? Or is a bad launch a death blow to a game?


WoW had an absolutely terrible launch and look at it now. Of course times have changed since then and the bar has risen, so I doubt something like that will happen again. With that, my biggest hopes for XIV's launch is the iron out the necessity issues before launch, inv sort (wtf?), retainer searching, lag (not too worried about this), grouping. Some basic tutorials would be cool, or belong pointed to the NPC's that give them. I didn't have an issue jumping in but I can from XI, and if se wants to target people new to mmo's there will need to be a better tutorial setup.


WoW didn't have a terrible launch. There was an interview a while back where the devs pointed out that they far, far exceeded their launch hopes/expectations. WoW's biggest issue at launch was that they didn't have enough servers to accommodate the incredible demand. Something tells me after reading all the comments about XIV and experiencing some of the issues myself, SE isn't going to have to worry too much about that.
#19 Sep 05 2010 at 1:21 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
Quote:
Or even better, no loot pool while solo at all


Actually that's your preference, I like it because I get rid of a lot of stuff before it gets into inventory, easier and faster to work with. Plus, wanna minimize menu usage? read the game manual...type /loot to open your inventory/loot window and you've canceled 2 layers right there.
____________________________
MUTED
#20 Sep 05 2010 at 1:27 AM Rating: Decent
**
254 posts
I agre completely. The menu system in this game is by far one of the worste i've ever seen. It's the only thing holding this game back from being one of the best I ever played. It's just unacceptable. Why should I have to press "buy" 4 times to purchase a stack of arrows? All with a 2-3 second delay in between. When I need to buy 10 stacks of arrows that over a minute and a half of ******* with the menus. Something that should only take 10 seconds.

Crafting is another issue. When a game is so reliant on crafting it needs to be functional without frustration. It just seems menus are layered about 4 x more than they should be. Whil I do realize this is only the beta, the game comes out in less than 3 weeks yo. Anyone that thinks these issues will be all fixed by release is a dreamer.

I'm sure i'll still be buying FFXIV on the 22nd, but man it's just hard to believe a company with so much mmo experience can even consider this menu system to be acceptable in todays market.

Aside from the menus and server side lag resulting in unresponsive skills, the completely useless mouse...FFXIV has potential to be the best MMO I ever played. I played FFXI for 5 years and this is just an amazing game to me. Hoe similar it is to XI yet how different it is at the same time. Just brilliant. I really hope they fix these MAJOR issues in a timely manner. But I really doubt they will. When SE believes in something, they dont nudge an inch to please the masses. They will stick to their guns. Idk why they would think the menu's are good the way they are.
#21 Sep 05 2010 at 1:40 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
440 posts
They need to, but they can't. It's far too late.
#22 Sep 05 2010 at 1:42 AM Rating: Excellent
SolidMack wrote:
Simple answer to your concerns Aurelius: this game is also being built for the PS3, the UI is the way it is because it has to cater to both and SE has a policy to have even grounds between the two - i.e., they don't want a UI giving the PC players a slight advantage over the PS3 players.


Of all the things SE could do to vastly improve the UI, none of them would require offering one UI for PC and something different for console. I'll offer a few examples:

1) Setting action bars. Yes, it can be done with a macro. Pretty shoddy to pass that part off to the player in this day and age, but it is what it is. First thing SE would do well to do is code distinct action bar palettes for every class. You shouldn't even have to key a macro to refresh your action bar when you switch from your mining pick to your sword/axe/bow/whatever. It should be automatic. And when it comes time to tweak and adjust the palette for a given class because you added a new ability or just want to change the layout, you can do a drag-and-drop system for both PC and console that would look and operate identically to one another...the only difference is that PC would do it with a click + drag of the mouse, and console would do it with a button + analog stick movement. If SE can manage that, they'll have overcome one of the more glaring deficiencies in the current system.

2) Nested menus. So, so unnecessary in so many cases. The loot pool -> inventory is one example. Why 5 layers? Why not an icon on screen (same spot as the interaction notification, maybe?) when you have something in your loot pool? One click (bonus points if you can bind a hotkey to it) to open the loot pool. That gets rid of 2 layers right there. And then instead of having a final option to choose whether you want to put the item in your bag or drop it, just have a "Drop" option on the list manu with a confirmation box so you don't accidentally lob your newly acquired Marmot **** +3 into the nether? Simple. Five layers down to two.

Confirming main/offhand for equipping abilities to your action bar is another example. Just on a lark, I decide to see what would happen if I tried to equip Rampart in my offhand slot. It told me it couldn't be done. So if the system can determine that it's not an option, why waste my time forcing me to respond to yet another submenu to select which hand to equip it to at all?

3) Crafting. We're still in the midst of trying to transition to a paperless world. Why no recipe book? They have the functionality for one already in the game, but it's backwards. First you have to enter the materials and then select from the list of recipes. What's the point of that? Looking at the variety in recipes even in the lower ranks, there's not going to be a whole mess of people having everything memorized. I thought SE was beyond the days of MysteryTour's extensive collection of recipes, but apparently not. It doesn't add depth to the game, it most certainly doesn't add rewarding challenge, and frankly I don't anticipate too many people are going to be all that thrilled about scrolling through clunky item lists to assemble materials for multiple-component recipes. Lag or no lag, it's tedious.

4) Repairs. I understand what they're wanting to accomplish. They want players to be the go-to people for having your gear repaired if you don't have the crafting skill to do it yourself. No problem. Regardless, I had to stop by the repair vendor earlier because my gladiator's highly functional cloth armor was torn to shreds. I was briefly relieved that it had the option to repair all gear...until I found out that I still had to go through and confirm each and every piece of gear that I wanted to have repaired. I said repair all, as opposed to specific pieces, so just do it and let me get on about my business.

All of these things and more can be addressed regardless of platform. It's just a shame that SE set it up the way that they did. And the issue for most people doesn't seem to be that it needs tweaking...the issue is that it's crap. It's not even close to where one might expect it to be. It makes you wonder about the thought processes behind the developers if they can so thoroughly bungle something so crucial to the gameplay experience, and with no option to continue to voice feedback in a centralized location, it raises the question as to whether or not we can count on SE to get it right now and into the future.
#23 Sep 05 2010 at 1:46 AM Rating: Decent
SolidMack wrote:
Quote:
Or even better, no loot pool while solo at all


Actually that's your preference, I like it because I get rid of a lot of stuff before it gets into inventory, easier and faster to work with. Plus, wanna minimize menu usage? read the game manual...type /loot to open your inventory/loot window and you've canceled 2 layers right there.


I can't read the game manual because I can't log on to the beta site. Slash commands for basic game functions went out of style even before FFXI. We live in a GUI world and most people would seem to agree that it's time for SE to realize it and step up to the plate with better systems. Whether you're culling your inventory from your inventory list or a loot pane, it's all the same thing. All the loot pool does is add another layer of needless complexity to something that could be an otherwise streamlined and intuitive system.
#24 Sep 05 2010 at 1:48 AM Rating: Decent
It's Just a Flesh Wound
******
22,699 posts
Quote:
I can't read the game manual because I can't log on to the beta site.


Are you even in beta?
____________________________
Dear people I don't like: 凸(●´―`●)凸
#25 Sep 05 2010 at 2:01 AM Rating: Good
Deadgye wrote:
Quote:
I can't read the game manual because I can't log on to the beta site.


Are you even in beta?


Yes, and from the time I got my key on Thursday and registered it up until now I haven't been able to access the test site at all.
#26 Sep 05 2010 at 2:09 AM Rating: Good
20 posts
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Deadgye wrote:
Quote:
I can't read the game manual because I can't log on to the beta site.


Are you even in beta?


Yes, and from the time I got my key on Thursday and registered it up until now I haven't been able to access the test site at all.


Yeah for some reason it took me awhile to get into the Beta Site as well.. just keep trying :/ is what i did. Was finally able to get in today.
#27 Sep 05 2010 at 3:04 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Quote:
All of these things and more can be addressed regardless of platform. It's just a shame that SE set it up the way that they did. And the issue for most people doesn't seem to be that it needs tweaking...the issue is that it's crap. It's not even close to where one might expect it to be. It makes you wonder about the thought processes behind the developers if they can so thoroughly bungle something so crucial to the gameplay experience, and with no option to continue to voice feedback in a centralized location, it raises the question as to whether or not we can count on SE to get it right now and into the future.


As much as I love the game nonetheless for what it does right: this is simply true. Harsh, but true.

And to add insult to the list:
I've been stuck at 94% of the update for 1 hour now.
Time to use Vuze (a torrent program) to do the Job SE isn't doing.

SE is on its best way to set a new record.
Forcing its customers to use third party tools even before playing the game.

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 5:30am by Rinsui
#28 Sep 05 2010 at 3:33 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
*
169 posts
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
All of these things and more can be addressed regardless of platform. It's just a shame that SE set it up the way that they did. And the issue for most people doesn't seem to be that it needs tweaking...the issue is that it's crap. It's not even close to where one might expect it to be. It makes you wonder about the thought processes behind the developers if they can so thoroughly bungle something so crucial to the gameplay experience, and with no option to continue to voice feedback in a centralized location, it raises the question as to whether or not we can count on SE to get it right now and into the future.


I fall into the FanBoi pool, and even I am forced to agree with this. *twitch*
____________________________
XIV: Misfit Stormrider - Kashuan
XI: Kujata - Razoredge (Long Retired)

A possible retainer idea

#29 Sep 05 2010 at 4:09 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
45 posts
I also think that the launch date should be pushed. Though, that is entirely out of our hands. It's just that these days the standard is much higher. Just because MMOs have a history of buggy launches doesn't mean it has to be that way for this one. Square-Enix is a class-A video-game company with almost a decade of experience in this genre, there shouldn't be any more excuses. To me, when a product fully launches at retail, it should be ready and polished enough to do what it's meant to do the best it can. And if the best FFXIV can do is to launch with bugs and unstable game play then that's just a disappointment to us fans.

I don't know about most of you but those that have played FF11 probably are most concerned with the direction FF14 is heading. The customer service/support from SE in FF11 was horrible. It took about 4 years of frequent player complaint just to add an "auto-sort" function to inventory. I really believe, though I don't want to, that the devs of 11 and 14 just don't care too much about player feedback. Yeah they are running a beta, but in the end, there are just a lot of strange things going on right now that doesn't make much sense.

It's getting really close to the retail release and let's say we flash forward to release day and FFIV is still ridden with bugs, crashes and overall lag. No longer will we be able to say "it's just beta." Will you still defend this game and recommend it to others and say "yeah this game is great!" Will you still be able to do that? Will you still play it? A game with this much production value behind it, we shouldn't have to wait for basic game fixes after release. That's not how it should be. I'm just disappointed that they are not pushing the bar in terms of perfecting the basics. At this point everything is a rehash of the same formula.
#30 Sep 05 2010 at 4:29 AM Rating: Excellent
**
254 posts
Quote:
I'm just disappointed that they are not pushing the bar in terms of perfecting the basics.


That's it in a nutshell for me. I think FFXIV is an AMAZING game. Or it has potential to be an amazing game.

It's MAJOR faults are aspects that should just be there you know. When a game this caliber comes out with it's BASIC functions as the worste aspect of the game, something's wrong. This feels like an amazing game that just completely ignored the fundamentals of an rpg. I.E. the menu system. SE been making rpg's for years, how could they have thought pressing "buy" 4 times to purchase a stack of arrows was a good thing? I just dont understand it i guess.

To me FFXIV takes gameplay, graphics, sound, and immersion to a whole new level than it was in FFXI. However the FUNDAMENTALS which you would expect to be a non-factor this day and age, are just WAY WAY behind the rest of the game. There's free to play mmorpg's out there that blow this games menu system away. I just dont get it lmao.

Needless to see il will give SE the benefit of the doubt with hopes they will fix things in a timely manner. My hopes are up. Come on September 22nd!
#31 Sep 05 2010 at 8:52 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,842 posts
I love how everyone is so worried about meeting the recommended system requirements they are spending thousands of dollars on upgrades but when SE recommends a gamepad people act like they are being told to cut off their own left foot. FFXIV is built around a Gamepad people. This is a fact you have to accept. If you go buy a cheap 10 dollar one you'll be amazed how much better the game is control wise.

The biggest problem FFXIV Open Beta has right now is not enough servers and lag.
____________________________
FFXIV Dyvid (Awaiting 2.0)
FFXI Dyvid ~ Pandemonium (Retired)
SWTOR Dy'vid Legacy - Canderous Ordo
#32 Sep 05 2010 at 9:07 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
17 posts
dyvidd wrote:
I love how everyone is so worried about meeting the recommended system requirements they are spending thousands of dollars on upgrades but when SE recommends a gamepad people act like they are being told to cut off their own left foot. FFXIV is built around a Gamepad people. This is a fact you have to accept. If you go buy a cheap 10 dollar one you'll be amazed how much better the game is control wise.


I'll admit that navigating these menus with a pad feels better. You're still doing as much work, but (it feels like) you can do it faster and it feels more reminiscent of old FF games. However, navigating the rest of the game is a pain the the effing **** without a mouse and keyboard. Gamepads are inferior to a mouse and keyboard for an MMO, and saying that it's easier to play with a pad (which it is) is a pretty damning blow to their UI.

Bringing us all down to the level of a PS3 so that they don't pee off their other customers is a slap in the face.
#33atwerq, Posted: Sep 05 2010 at 9:18 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) They need to push back the launch ?
#34 Sep 05 2010 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
**
265 posts
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Deadgye wrote:
Quote:
I can't read the game manual because I can't log on to the beta site.


Are you even in beta?


Yes, and from the time I got my key on Thursday and registered it up until now I haven't been able to access the test site at all.


For some odd reason I have to log in two times in order to gain access. Logging in once just brings me back to a log in screen... where I log in again and I'm in.
#35 Sep 05 2010 at 9:26 AM Rating: Decent
There's an ingame manual at all the aethyrite crystals. People who got into the open beta, but not closed have limited access to the dev. site, i'm not sure to what extent though.
#36 Sep 05 2010 at 9:36 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
771 posts
I don't know if they need to push it back. Even if they did, there would still be bugs at launch. NO MMORPG is without bugs at any point, even a year after launch. Less bugs they could do, and maybe they will. I'm pretty glad I'm getting SE instead of CE at this point, so it will at least be past the first week of madness if it is a bad launch. I'm gonna wait to see how it actually is at launch to make a decision on this, though.
#37 Sep 05 2010 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
*
135 posts
Quote:
I'd have to agree the loot system is odd at best in its current form, especially pooling in solo O.o I doubt it will stay this way though, but voicing our complaints is how they know...er wait were NA they may not listen to us, so maybe the JP are voicing complaints? :p


actually there is a very large percentage of NA and EU players, so for SE to ignore the non-jp player base would be unwise.
____________________________
Ultros:

Va'lah Dreadnought
ZAM's Ultros Linkshell Forum Karma Zameleons

This tank likes to nerd-aggro on the forums. Tomahawk--GO!
#38 Sep 05 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
13 posts
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Silverwyrm wrote:
Quote:
Question: has any MMO that had a bad reception at launch turned around after things were fixed and new content added and became popular? Or is a bad launch a death blow to a game?


WoW had an absolutely terrible launch and look at it now. Of course times have changed since then and the bar has risen, so I doubt something like that will happen again. With that, my biggest hopes for XIV's launch is the iron out the necessity issues before launch, inv sort (wtf?), retainer searching, lag (not too worried about this), grouping. Some basic tutorials would be cool, or belong pointed to the NPC's that give them. I didn't have an issue jumping in but I can from XI, and if se wants to target people new to mmo's there will need to be a better tutorial setup.


WoW didn't have a terrible launch. There was an interview a while back where the devs pointed out that they far, far exceeded their launch hopes/expectations. WoW's biggest issue at launch was that they didn't have enough servers to accommodate the incredible demand. Something tells me after reading all the comments about XIV and experiencing some of the issues myself, SE isn't going to have to worry too much about that.


So, not to bash but did you read that and actually believe what the devs told somebody in an interview? Cause i was in wow from beta. and i still play.i love it for opposite reasons i love this game. but i will tell you now for a fact that WoW's beta sucked *** and even had stuff in it that ppl claimed would kill the game like the exp debt crap. And release day? pfft ..it was horrendous, i am sure if you do enough looking on the net for old posts or blogs you can find plenty wrong with WoW's beginnings. And while they are def getting better and Still the reigning king of mmo profits, they still have their troubles on expansion day releases as well. Only time will truly tell if something is gonna make it or not. And no mmo will ever be immune to all the drama of beta bugs & release day crapola. best thing you can do is keep the hopes up for a as smooth as possible showing!
#39 Sep 05 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
771 posts
From what SE has said the JP playerbase doesn't give even close to the amount of feedback the NA and EU does.
#40 Sep 05 2010 at 9:59 AM Rating: Decent
Loot is the same as XI from what I've seen, when soloing it will automatically go into your inventory after a while, the point in not geting it straight away is when your in a party if somone wants somthing in particular they can bid for it before it gets randomly assigned.
#41 Sep 05 2010 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
*
135 posts
Quote:
From what SE has said the JP playerbase doesn't give even close to the amount of feedback the NA and EU does.


understandable, and this would have a lot to do with the cultural upbringings here, believe it or not.
____________________________
Ultros:

Va'lah Dreadnought
ZAM's Ultros Linkshell Forum Karma Zameleons

This tank likes to nerd-aggro on the forums. Tomahawk--GO!
#42 Sep 05 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
118 posts
digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Question: has any MMO that had a bad reception at launch turned around after things were fixed and new content added and became popular? Or is a bad launch a death blow to a game?

I don't think it's going to have a bad launch, but it's possible, so I'm wondering. It seems plenty of people want to be cool and have made up their mind already though. We live in the age of haters.


MMOs rarely start with a bad launch and then turn around. But to be honest, a great game can't really have a bad launch. When we look at failed MMOs, when we say that had a bad launch, what we mean is that they were not very good games, not worth paying a monthly subscription for. WoW had more than its share of problems at launch, but it did great because it had a huge fanbase from prior Warcraft games, and was enticing enough that people wanted to play past the flaws. I think FFXIV will be the same way. Whether or not everything's working at launch, it's a game with the power to suck you in. And it has a big built-in following thanks to a generation of Final Fantasy fans, and the substantial number of people who subscribed to Final Fantasy XI and want a new FF MMO experience. Even if the launch is rough, I think the game will absolutely pull through. There is just too much good stuff in there for it to happen otherwise.

IMO, people only say that a game had a "bad launch" in retrospect, as a way to explain why the game failed. FFXIV, no matter its problems at launch, will not be said to have had a "bad launch" because it's not going to fail.
#43 Sep 05 2010 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
764 posts
Quote:
I think FFXIV will be the same way.

I believe it has the potential to be this way as well, we can just hope SE is on their game about fixing those problems quickly before they leave.
____________________________


#44 Sep 05 2010 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
IMO, people only say that a game had a "bad launch" in retrospect, as a way to explain why the game failed. FFXIV, no matter its problems at launch, will not be said to have had a "bad launch" because it's not going to fail.


This is true, for all it's flaws I am still going to play this game, if all the big issues at the moment remain in the retail release I will still play, they are not game breaking for me, and I love the game as it is. and i'm sure i'm not the only one.
#45 Sep 05 2010 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
dyvidd wrote:
I love how everyone is so worried about meeting the recommended system requirements they are spending thousands of dollars on upgrades but when SE recommends a gamepad people act like they are being told to cut off their own left foot. FFXIV is built around a Gamepad people. This is a fact you have to accept. If you go buy a cheap 10 dollar one you'll be amazed how much better the game is control wise.


Nonsense. With or without the gamepad, you're still navigating layered menus or triggering macroes that you wrote to overcome poor design by the developer. The overwhelming majority of MMO gamers use keyboard + mouse. "We like making PC games intended to be played with a gamepad so we're going to ignore what most MMO gamers do because we know better." It doesn't fly.
#46 Sep 05 2010 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,339 posts
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
dyvidd wrote:
I love how everyone is so worried about meeting the recommended system requirements they are spending thousands of dollars on upgrades but when SE recommends a gamepad people act like they are being told to cut off their own left foot. FFXIV is built around a Gamepad people. This is a fact you have to accept. If you go buy a cheap 10 dollar one you'll be amazed how much better the game is control wise.


Nonsense. With or without the gamepad, you're still navigating layered menus or triggering macroes that you wrote to overcome poor design by the developer. The overwhelming majority of MMO gamers use keyboard + mouse. "We like making PC games intended to be played with a gamepad so we're going to ignore what most MMO gamers do because we know better." It doesn't fly.


And that's what people that spout "this game was made for a gamepad!" don't realize. The people that had planned to purchase this on the PC all along did it with the intention of using the standard PC gaming setup. There's so much wrong with the game right now, but the fact the developers can't even make a basic control scheme such as this tells me a lot about how they'll handle the rest of the game's 'features' later on down the road.
#47 Sep 05 2010 at 1:12 PM Rating: Decent
**
254 posts
It's the same as FFXI. FFXI was built to be played with a controller and is way better that way. I play every other mmo on mouse and keyboard but played FFXI for 5 years with a controller. If you cant adjust then thats your problem. The control scheme is actually amazing on a controller. If people gave it a chance they wouldnt cry.

Too many people are so closed minded that they wont give anything a chance simply because it's different than what they are used to. It's why a majority of players wont even get FFXIV simply because it's not a wow clone. I find it hilarious that any game that comes out and has a hotbar UI is automatically deemed a wow clone, and any other game that comes out with an original UI is immediately deemed to suck.
#48 Sep 05 2010 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
71 posts
I have faith that everything we are concerned about will be addressed in time. No MMO is any where near perfect on launch. My main concerns are the laginess and unrefined menus, but these things are always being tweaked with patches.

I'm entering this as someone who played FF XI for maybe 5 months total. I loved the game, but just could not invest the time needed. This seems to be a bit more "casual friendly"... at least to begin with. I've got my Collector's Edition on reserve and look forward to opening day for the retail servers :)
#49 Sep 05 2010 at 1:22 PM Rating: Decent
*
61 posts
Person above me.

That last paragraph you wrote is hilarious.

Saying something isn't good because it's not a wow clone? That is some pretty interesting stigma regarding all the people that play AoC and AoR.

Sigh, they should offer support for either way and some of us don't want to go out and buy a peripheral to play a game... a computer game that is infuriating to use a mouse and keyboard?
#50 Sep 05 2010 at 1:22 PM Rating: Default
**
353 posts
They did fix the curing target problem. And hitting Z to enable aoe means no need for mouse. It's fine now, aside from server latency causing abilties to cast 5 seconds after u use it, that needs to be fixed now.
#51 Sep 05 2010 at 1:59 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
2,495 posts
Quote:
It's the same as FFXI. FFXI was built to be played with a controller and is way better that way. I play every other mmo on mouse and keyboard but played FFXI for 5 years with a controller. If you cant adjust then thats your problem. The control scheme is actually amazing on a controller. If people gave it a chance they wouldnt cry.

Too many people are so closed minded that they wont give anything a chance simply because it's different than what they are used to. It's why a majority of players wont even get FFXIV simply because it's not a wow clone. I find it hilarious that any game that comes out and has a hotbar UI is automatically deemed a wow clone, and any other game that comes out with an original UI is immediately deemed to suck.


Smiley: facepalm

FFXI was originally made for the PS2 and then ported to the PC, which is why it's designed around a game pad. FFXIV is designed for both systems. The keyboard and mouse are the native controls for the PC, not a gamepad. Telling PC users to suck it up and switch to a gamepad would be like telling PS3 users to deal with it and switch to a keyboard and mouse. And if you really want to get technical, the fact that the PS3 launch is coming several months AFTER the PC launch indicates that FFXIV was designed for the PC and is being ported to the PS3.

This argument has nothing to do with WoW, the menu interface simply sucks. Why is it that when someone realizes their argument has absolutely no ground to stand on they drag WoW into it?
« Previous 1 2 3 4
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 19 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (19)