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#52 Sep 05 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I have run out of arguments to cover for obvious bugs and problems with this game.

Im gonna insult WoW, he'll never expect it.
#53 Sep 05 2010 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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265 posts
Raolan wrote:
Quote:
It's the same as FFXI. FFXI was built to be played with a controller and is way better that way. I play every other mmo on mouse and keyboard but played FFXI for 5 years with a controller. If you cant adjust then thats your problem. The control scheme is actually amazing on a controller. If people gave it a chance they wouldnt cry.

Too many people are so closed minded that they wont give anything a chance simply because it's different than what they are used to. It's why a majority of players wont even get FFXIV simply because it's not a wow clone. I find it hilarious that any game that comes out and has a hotbar UI is automatically deemed a wow clone, and any other game that comes out with an original UI is immediately deemed to suck.


Smiley: facepalm

FFXI was originally made for the PS2 and then ported to the PC, which is why it's designed around a game pad. FFXIV is designed for both systems. The keyboard and mouse are the native controls for the PC, not a gamepad. Telling PC users to suck it up and switch to a gamepad would be like telling PS3 users to deal with it and switch to a keyboard and mouse. And if you really want to get technical, the fact that the PS3 launch is coming several months AFTER the PC launch indicates that FFXIV was designed for the PC and is being ported to the PS3.

This argument has nothing to do with WoW, the menu interface simply sucks. Why is it that when someone realizes their argument has absolutely no ground to stand on they drag WoW into it?


Game works fine for me with a keyboard and mouse. Sorry you are having a hard time adjusting. I'm not... so not sure what you're doing wrong. This is coming from someone who didn't play FF XI. Maybe it really is you? Is that not a possibility?
#54 Sep 05 2010 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
13 posts
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Silverwyrm wrote:
Quote:
Question: has any MMO that had a bad reception at launch turned around after things were fixed and new content added and became popular? Or is a bad launch a death blow to a game?


WoW had an absolutely terrible launch and look at it now. Of course times have changed since then and the bar has risen, so I doubt something like that will happen again. With that, my biggest hopes for XIV's launch is the iron out the necessity issues before launch, inv sort (wtf?), retainer searching, lag (not too worried about this), grouping. Some basic tutorials would be cool, or belong pointed to the NPC's that give them. I didn't have an issue jumping in but I can from XI, and if se wants to target people new to mmo's there will need to be a better tutorial setup.


WoW didn't have a terrible launch. There was an interview a while back where the devs pointed out that they far, far exceeded their launch hopes/expectations. WoW's biggest issue at launch was that they didn't have enough servers to accommodate the incredible demand. Something tells me after reading all the comments about XIV and experiencing some of the issues myself, SE isn't going to have to worry too much about that.


If you played WoW at launch you wouldnt say that. let me tell you it was REALLY bad. First servers where so laggy it took a few min just to loot and i mean being stuck in looting fore like 10-15 min, then the boat dropping you out in sea, falling throught the map (witch happens still), dying in 1 city and raising in another continent. Also before all the UI addons the main WoW UI was horrible, there crafting system was and is still not usefull
#55 Sep 05 2010 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent
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265 posts
goundar wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Silverwyrm wrote:
Quote:
Question: has any MMO that had a bad reception at launch turned around after things were fixed and new content added and became popular? Or is a bad launch a death blow to a game?


WoW had an absolutely terrible launch and look at it now. Of course times have changed since then and the bar has risen, so I doubt something like that will happen again. With that, my biggest hopes for XIV's launch is the iron out the necessity issues before launch, inv sort (wtf?), retainer searching, lag (not too worried about this), grouping. Some basic tutorials would be cool, or belong pointed to the NPC's that give them. I didn't have an issue jumping in but I can from XI, and if se wants to target people new to mmo's there will need to be a better tutorial setup.


WoW didn't have a terrible launch. There was an interview a while back where the devs pointed out that they far, far exceeded their launch hopes/expectations. WoW's biggest issue at launch was that they didn't have enough servers to accommodate the incredible demand. Something tells me after reading all the comments about XIV and experiencing some of the issues myself, SE isn't going to have to worry too much about that.


If you played WoW at launch you wouldnt say that. let me tell you it was REALLY bad. First servers where so laggy it took a few min just to loot and i mean being stuck in looting fore like 10-15 min, then the boat dropping you out in sea, falling throught the map (witch happens still), dying in 1 city and raising in another continent. Also before all the UI addons the main WoW UI was horrible, there crafting system was and is still not usefull


Didn't you hear him? The devs said it was a good launch therefore it must automatically be true and there is 0 room for argument.

/s

In all seriousness WoW's launch (no idea what this has to do with anything) was memorably awful. If the devs expectations were worse then that then what did they expect? Maybe they expected you to open up the game and it would make your computer explode? "Well it didn't destroy your computer so it was a successful launch!"

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 4:31pm by runtheplacered
#56 Sep 05 2010 at 2:34 PM Rating: Default
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61 posts
WoW's crafting system was and still is not useful?

And you think FF's crafting system is better.

Put a random ingredient in just to see the recipes instead of just having a big list of recipes? Are you ******* retarded?
#57 Sep 05 2010 at 2:37 PM Rating: Default
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61 posts
And except FF's beta makes your computer explode when some people open it

lol
#58 Sep 05 2010 at 2:41 PM Rating: Decent
(I don't know how good a cook you are but it's just for arguments sake) if I ask you to go make an apple pie do you know exactly how to make it? you learn recipies by doing local leves, the game does lack a way to keep track of the recipies you learn, but having a huge list from the ofset kinda makes the job too easy. the description on the training books leads me to believe that they contain recipies, but at this point who knows.
#59 Sep 05 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
20 posts
runtheplacered wrote:
goundar wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Silverwyrm wrote:
Quote:
Question: has any MMO that had a bad reception at launch turned around after things were fixed and new content added and became popular? Or is a bad launch a death blow to a game?


WoW had an absolutely terrible launch and look at it now. Of course times have changed since then and the bar has risen, so I doubt something like that will happen again. With that, my biggest hopes for XIV's launch is the iron out the necessity issues before launch, inv sort (wtf?), retainer searching, lag (not too worried about this), grouping. Some basic tutorials would be cool, or belong pointed to the NPC's that give them. I didn't have an issue jumping in but I can from XI, and if se wants to target people new to mmo's there will need to be a better tutorial setup.


WoW didn't have a terrible launch. There was an interview a while back where the devs pointed out that they far, far exceeded their launch hopes/expectations. WoW's biggest issue at launch was that they didn't have enough servers to accommodate the incredible demand. Something tells me after reading all the comments about XIV and experiencing some of the issues myself, SE isn't going to have to worry too much about that.


If you played WoW at launch you wouldnt say that. let me tell you it was REALLY bad. First servers where so laggy it took a few min just to loot and i mean being stuck in looting fore like 10-15 min, then the boat dropping you out in sea, falling throught the map (witch happens still), dying in 1 city and raising in another continent. Also before all the UI addons the main WoW UI was horrible, there crafting system was and is still not usefull


Didn't you hear him? The devs said it was a good launch therefore it must automatically be true and there is 0 room for argument.

/s

In all seriousness WoW's launch (no idea what this has to do with anything) was memorably awful. If the devs expectations were worse then that then what did they expect? Maybe they expected you to open up the game and it would make your computer explode? "Well it didn't destroy your computer so it was a successful launch!"

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 4:31pm by runtheplacered


Yeah lets compare a game's launch to another game that was launched 6 years ago... when MMO's where just barely evolving into what they are today. yes, lets say this is the norm because "even WoW" had a "bad" launch (lol).

No. Stop comparing. Fact of the matter is there is nothing to compare, for the most part (since you guys brought up wow) most of the problem WoW had was because of the server overload thus the looting/lag/etc issues... what does that tell you? Devs weren't prepared for such a massive load of subscribers seems pretty normal to me.. now its 6 years later.. so far most of FFXIV critiques are from the HORRIBLE User Interface and Game Mechanics... Do people have the right to voice their opinions? yes, why? Because the game is looking like a half-assed piece of crap so far! Are you people helping by bashing on critics for rightfully complaining on how tidious and non-user friendly the game is so far, not at all, you are really the fan boys not wanting to voice or as you say whine about something and are trying to get everyone to be happy with MEDIOCRICY at its finest. Shut up, sit back, let the "whiners" do the whining so maybe you people happy with a Subpar game so far come to find out maybe SE will listen and maybe make the game much better than it currently is.
In the end your going to be the ones left with a "failure to lauch" game and no subscribers to play with.
#60 Sep 05 2010 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
runtheplacered wrote:
Didn't you hear him? The devs said it was a good launch therefore it must automatically be true and there is 0 room for argument.

/s

In all seriousness WoW's launch (no idea what this has to do with anything) was memorably awful. If the devs expectations were worse then that then what did they expect? Maybe they expected you to open up the game and it would make your computer explode? "Well it didn't destroy your computer so it was a successful launch!"


The numbers tell the story. We're talking about games that shipped with significant issues and, as a result, their subscription base suffered as a result of it. WoW's did not. They never saw the crash in population that Warhammer, AoC, and Star Trek did. They saw huge numbers at launch and it just continued to grow. Again, nobody is suggesting that WoW was without issues or questionable design choices when it launched...just that it brought enough to the table that it was able to continue to grow despite those issues. Nothing kills an argument faster than a fanboi looking for a reason to take shots. The numbers back up the devs' claims, but if pretending it was a series of subjective statements makes you feel better about the crap systems in FFXIV, don't let me hold you back.
#61 Sep 05 2010 at 3:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Raolan wrote:
Quote:
It's the same as FFXI. FFXI was built to be played with a controller and is way better that way. I play every other mmo on mouse and keyboard but played FFXI for 5 years with a controller. If you cant adjust then thats your problem. The control scheme is actually amazing on a controller. If people gave it a chance they wouldnt cry.

Too many people are so closed minded that they wont give anything a chance simply because it's different than what they are used to. It's why a majority of players wont even get FFXIV simply because it's not a wow clone. I find it hilarious that any game that comes out and has a hotbar UI is automatically deemed a wow clone, and any other game that comes out with an original UI is immediately deemed to suck.


Smiley: facepalm

FFXI was originally made for the PS2 and then ported to the PC, which is why it's designed around a game pad. FFXIV is designed for both systems. The keyboard and mouse are the native controls for the PC, not a gamepad. Telling PC users to suck it up and switch to a gamepad would be like telling PS3 users to deal with it and switch to a keyboard and mouse. And if you really want to get technical, the fact that the PS3 launch is coming several months AFTER the PC launch indicates that FFXIV was designed for the PC and is being ported to the PS3.

This argument has nothing to do with WoW, the menu interface simply sucks. Why is it that when someone realizes their argument has absolutely no ground to stand on they drag WoW into it?
Um, FFXI was planned from launch to be multiplatform, but you're dealing with a company that designs for consoles primarily, and does not want an unfair advantage to lie between PC and PS3 users. So yes, to play it optimally, you should use a controller. Don't expect them to do extensive work on keyboard controls for just one of the platforms.
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#62 Sep 05 2010 at 3:42 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree with just about everything Aurelius has said.

There are too many issues with the game right now for even a fraction of them to be realistically fixed in two and a half weeks. I think the game should be pushed back, but I also know that there's zero chance of that happening at this stage.

Something that would at least be a nice show of goodwill is if SE released a patch fixing perhaps 10 of the most glaring issues in the next week or so: demonstrate that they're at least planning to straighten these things out. Their comments in interviews have made me kind of doubtful about that.

Incidentally, I'm really excited about some of this game's fundamentals. I think the combat system is fantastic, at least for melee jobs (mages not so much).
#63 Sep 05 2010 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
The only issues I have are the slow UI and crappy mouse. but both of those can be blaimed on the slow connection they are forcing everyone to in the beta. time will tell.
#64 Sep 05 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Decent
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254 posts
Quote:
In the end your going to be the ones left with a "failure to lauch" game and no subscribers to play with.


LOL at this. No subscribers to play with? Sorry but dedicated Square Enix fans will stick with them through thick and thin, including myself. I realize the game has problems and some of them are absolutely horrible. But I'm sure it will be worked out with time. If my opinion if someone cant handle the current issues then dont buy the game. Come back in a few months and then buy it. Save yourself the frustration if it really is that bad to you.

But to say FFXIV will have no subscribers is just silly lol. Japan alone can sustain FFXIV. NA is just a bonus.
#65 Sep 05 2010 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
soezu wrote:

LOL at this. No subscribers to play with? Sorry but dedicated Square Enix fans will stick with them through thick and thin, including myself. I realize the game has problems and some of them are absolutely horrible. But I'm sure it will be worked out with time. If my opinion if someone cant handle the current issues then dont buy the game. Come back in a few months and then buy it. Save yourself the frustration if it really is that bad to you.

But to say FFXIV will have no subscribers is just silly lol. Japan alone can sustain FFXIV. NA is just a bonus.

Second.
#66 Sep 05 2010 at 4:11 PM Rating: Good
20 posts
Soezu wrote:


But to say FFXIV will have no subscribers is just silly lol. Japan alone can sustain FFXIV. NA is just a bonus.



Hmm by no Subscribers I mean not very many.What i'm mainly saying is games nowadays (MMO's in particular) really need to have that good first impression (aka launch) and the way FFXIV is looking, that is not going to be the case. Would you want to play a game with very few subscribers?(somehow i see you saying yes) its an MMO for crying out loud not a 4 player co-op game (EXAGGERATED).

Are you Japanese or can you speak Japanes? if not then why the **** does Japan being able to sustain FFXIV have anythign to do with the NA players? What are you saying? even if there are very few NA players it will still be populated by JP players?? LOL?

"NA is just a bonus" well im glad you are happy with sloppy seconds lol.
#67 Sep 05 2010 at 4:21 PM Rating: Excellent
17 posts
yeah but... for you and everybody else that says "oh all us TRUE FF fans will stick it out through and through!" i have two questions for you... one, when Tan was quoted in an interview saying he wanted to broaden the population to make it more accessible to Everyone do you little twerps have to come in with your stupid "i bleed FF14!!! SE doesnt care about anyone but US, its true fans!" no, they dont. by saying they want to attract people that havent even played a MMO, much less a FF MMO, he is saying the exact opposite. a little rant i posted on Core's website i decided to bring over for players like you:

i think one of my biggest frustrations, is with the people who are actually defending SE on some of this stuff.
"oh its just BETA"
yeah, its open beta with just a few days to release
"i dont hate the controls/menus/fatigue/lack of quests/lack of tutorials ect... they are soo new and man, SE is just sooo super cool for going out on a limb and trying new stuff."
making the game a chore to play is not cool, its not crazy and fun, its not different. its stupid. its for a console? why? you are releasing it not only for the PC first, but you are making half the people go out and upgrade their PC's to even run it, i think it should cater a little more to the PC crowd. making me spend hours of, for lack of better words, time sinking myself into the grave... does not sound like its going to be fun at all. it actually sounds like the exact opposite of fun.

i dont get why some people just cant freaking fess up and say "you know what? this game, while amazing on a few levels, drastically sucks *** on MANY others. i can deff see why new players coming into this game wont like it, and SE is making some HUGE mistakes that are SO EASY TO FIX." instead of sitting there trying to downplay poor planning and gameplay. have you fanboys ever thought that maybe YOU were the minority instead of the majority with this? some of you talk with such... disdain or false pride in being "oh well if you dont like it go play something else" well no shi*t they are going to play something else. you know what? maybe we are spoiled, so does that make SE like some horrible parent figure that wants to punish us by forcing us to go on mechanics that are 20 years old?

and my second question is this... since when is cannibalizing your own products EVER good for a new product? "oh FF14 will make it because the FF11 players alone will sustain it."

alright then who is sustaining FF11? what kind of idiotic thinking gives you or anyone else the sense to sit back and think that a company with a brand new game only wants to attract its same old fan base? im sorry is SE just happy making a little when they could be controlling a lot? i dont think so, they are still a company. and companies need not only the old players but the new as well.
#68 Sep 05 2010 at 4:29 PM Rating: Decent
20 posts
HMCorpsman wrote:
yeah but... for you and everybody else that says "oh all us TRUE FF fans will stick it out through and through!" i have two questions for you... one, when Tan was quoted in an interview saying he wanted to broaden the population to make it more accessible to Everyone do you little twerps have to come in with your stupid "i bleed FF14!!! SE doesnt care about anyone but US, its true fans!" no, they dont. by saying they want to attract people that havent even played a MMO, much less a FF MMO, he is saying the exact opposite. a little rant i posted on Core's website i decided to bring over for players like you:

i think one of my biggest frustrations, is with the people who are actually defending SE on some of this stuff.
"oh its just BETA"
yeah, its open beta with just a few days to release
"i dont hate the controls/menus/fatigue/lack of quests/lack of tutorials ect... they are soo new and man, SE is just sooo super cool for going out on a limb and trying new stuff."
making the game a chore to play is not cool, its not crazy and fun, its not different. its stupid. its for a console? why? you are releasing it not only for the PC first, but you are making half the people go out and upgrade their PC's to even run it, i think it should cater a little more to the PC crowd. making me spend hours of, for lack of better words, time sinking myself into the grave... does not sound like its going to be fun at all. it actually sounds like the exact opposite of fun.

i dont get why some people just cant freaking fess up and say "you know what? this game, while amazing on a few levels, drastically sucks *** on MANY others. i can deff see why new players coming into this game wont like it, and SE is making some HUGE mistakes that are SO EASY TO FIX." instead of sitting there trying to downplay poor planning and gameplay. have you fanboys ever thought that maybe YOU were the minority instead of the majority with this? some of you talk with such... disdain or false pride in being "oh well if you dont like it go play something else" well no shi*t they are going to play something else. you know what? maybe we are spoiled, so does that make SE like some horrible parent figure that wants to punish us by forcing us to go on mechanics that are 20 years old?

and my second question is this... since when is cannibalizing your own products EVER good for a new product? "oh FF14 will make it because the FF11 players alone will sustain it."

alright then who is sustaining FF11? what kind of idiotic thinking gives you or anyone else the sense to sit back and think that a company with a brand new game only wants to attract its same old fan base? im sorry is SE just happy making a little when they could be controlling a lot? i dont think so, they are still a company. and companies need not only the old players but the new as well.



very, very well said. i read every bit of it.
#69 Sep 05 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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lol, thanks. looking back over it, including my old post, i can see it needs a lot of editing. but i dont like to fine tune forum posts, and the gist was still there. im glad you could get past bad grammer to finish it out ha!
#70 Sep 05 2010 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
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I appreciate every post in this thread. I was invited to Alpha and Beta but my machine cannot handle the game. I went and pre-ordered the collector's edition for myself and my husband over a month ago on blind faith in Square. I was just going to buy a new machine so I could be part of launch. After reading about game issues over the past couple days I went and got refunds for my CE pre-orders. Perhaps I will look into 14 with the release of the PS3 version.
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#71 Sep 05 2010 at 6:12 PM Rating: Default
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Ah Aurelius, I lol everytime I read your post because you are such a die hard WoW player. I still don't understand why you want play anything else, more so with Cataclysm just around the corner. But hey, I'm not here to judge you. If you want to play FFXIV you want to play FFXIV I guess. I will say it's very weak to keep comparing every game to WoW.

I was thinking about it though and understand why the devs won't have key bindings in FFXIV. It would be a disadvantage to the console players because they have to navigate through the menus. I'm pretty sure the response to that is "I don't care about them because it's all about me" blah blah blah. The fact is it's balanced between and it works, if people would take the time to actually try it before complaining.
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#73 Sep 05 2010 at 6:26 PM Rating: Decent
Ahaha, funny soezu

What the **** are you talking about "no key bindings"?

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 8:29pm by ashuramaru
#74 Sep 05 2010 at 6:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Where did i say no key bindings?
#75 Sep 05 2010 at 6:35 PM Rating: Default
that wasn't aimed at you, Dyvidd said no key bindings.

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 8:36pm by ashuramaru
#76 Sep 05 2010 at 6:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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As far as i have seen, everything that people complained about got fixed.... for the most part. Here are a few examples:

Battle speed.

Better optimization for newer video cards. ( while it's still lacking, it's much beter now than it was just a month ago.)

Software mouse. ( still not right, but better than it was. I still would prefer a hardware mouse, but i don't see them budging on this at all for some reason.)

UI lag. ( this is due in part to software SE is running in the background. It still has gotten better regardless.)

MP regen. ( i noticed i have much more MP now, then i did in closed beta. That's a start.)

Surplus XP. ( the only reason this was even an issue, was the fact that people were getting much more xp than they should have. I was grinding all day today, and have yet to even hear of anyone getting this).

No tutorials for new players. (Honestly, i think they are kind of taking away from the storyline with all the new tutorial stuff they have in it. But, i suppose it's a good thing for newbies.)

Patch DL. ( yeah, we finally got a fix for that today, but still needs improvement. Plenty of time to work on it.)

No AH. ( There will be an AH added at a later date. If i recall correctly, FFXI didn't have an AH at start either.)

Everything about an MMO is progressive. In time, most things will be fixed, and if they aren't, then maybe this game just isn''t for you. If you were to compare any current, successful MMO to it's launch, would you have even bought the game? Looking back, FFXI was pretty lame in 2003, compared to what it is now.


Edited, Sep 5th 2010 8:50pm by Teneleven
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#77 Sep 05 2010 at 6:55 PM Rating: Good
dyvidd wrote:
Ah Aurelius, I lol everytime I read your post because you are such a die hard WoW player. I still don't understand why you want play anything else, more so with Cataclysm just around the corner. But hey, I'm not here to judge you. If you want to play FFXIV you want to play FFXIV I guess. I will say it's very weak to keep comparing every game to WoW.

I was thinking about it though and understand why the devs won't have key bindings in FFXIV. It would be a disadvantage to the console players because they have to navigate through the menus. I'm pretty sure the response to that is "I don't care about them because it's all about me" blah blah blah. The fact is it's balanced between and it works, if people would take the time to actually try it before complaining.


Read through the thread again, sporty. I didn't bring up WoW. I was responding to someone who did. The game already has keybindings, in case you missed it. They're just extremely limited relative to what they could be. You say playing the game with a gamepad is great. People who play with keyboard say it sucks. But wanting a more intuitive keyboard interface so that BOTH options are great makes me selfish? Get over yourself.
#78 Sep 05 2010 at 6:57 PM Rating: Decent
Teneleven wrote:
As far as i have seen, everything that people complained about got fixed.... for the most part. Here are a few examples:

Battle speed.

Better optimization for newer video cards. ( while it's still lacking, it's much beter now than it was just a month ago.)

Software mouse. ( still not right, but better than it was. I still would prefer a hardware mouse, but i don't see them budging on this at all for some reason.)

UI lag. ( this is due in part to software SE is running in the background. It still has gotten better regardless.)

MP regen. ( i noticed i have much more MP now, then i did in closed beta. That's a start.)

Surplus XP. ( the only reason this was even an issue, was the fact that people were getting much more xp than they should have. I was grinding all day today, and have yet to even hear of anyone getting this).

No tutorials for new players. (Honestly, i think they are kind of taking away from the storyline with all the new tutorial stuff they have in it. But, i suppose it's a good thing for newbies.)

Patch DL. ( yeah, we finally got a fix for that today, but still needs improvement. Plenty of time to work on it.)

No AH. ( There will be an AH added at a later date. If i recall correctly, FFXI didn't have an AH at start either.)

Everything about an MMO is progressive. In time, most things will be fixed, and if they aren't, then maybe this game just isn''t for you. If you were to compare any current, successful MMO to it's launch, would you have even bought the game? Looking back, FFXI was pretty lame in 2003, compared to what it is now.


and most of those changes were made in a month or so from alpha to first beta.
#79 Sep 05 2010 at 7:02 PM Rating: Default
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Get over yourself.
Right back at ya buddy.
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#80 Sep 05 2010 at 7:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Most of those fixes came in the three closed beta sessions actually. The only 2 that didn't were the battle speed (alpha to CB1) and the patcher fix which came today (OB).
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#81 Sep 05 2010 at 9:55 PM Rating: Good
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LOL at this. No subscribers to play with? Sorry but dedicated Square Enix fans will stick with them through thick and thin, including myself. I realize the game has problems and some of them are absolutely horrible.


I consider myself SE's battered housewife. I know i deserve better than the crap that SE has dished me in the last few years. From horrible story hooks, clunky interfaces, forgettable characters, late night drunken beatings over not having dinner ready and of course the general lack of communication and sense of investment in my well being and enjoyment.

But... i look back into the start of our relationship, the memorable characters, engaging story lines, addicting gameplay and genre evolving designs and hold hope that someday these days can come back. So i keep on enduring, buying each title expecting to be disapointed but holding that ever so faint glimmer of hope that the honeymoon phase can start anew.

I think it is only time before all of us battered SE fans pick up and move on. To be honest, i cant think of a game in hte past 10 years that they have made that have held a candle to any of the original games they put out. Maybe this will be the first game i don't buy on grounds of "i don't like it" instead of "i don't want to buy that system just to play this game".

You have no idea how much that pains me to say.

- Kaces, SE fanboy since final fantasy 1 first came out in the US.
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#82 Sep 05 2010 at 10:06 PM Rating: Decent
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KacesofCaitsith wrote:
Quote:
LOL at this. No subscribers to play with? Sorry but dedicated Square Enix fans will stick with them through thick and thin, including myself. I realize the game has problems and some of them are absolutely horrible.


I consider myself SE's battered housewife. I know i deserve better than the crap that SE has dished me in the last few years. From horrible story hooks, clunky interfaces, forgettable characters, late night drunken beatings over not having dinner ready and of course the general lack of communication and sense of investment in my well being and enjoyment.

But... i look back into the start of our relationship, the memorable characters, engaging story lines, addicting gameplay and genre evolving designs and hold hope that someday these days can come back. So i keep on enduring, buying each title expecting to be disapointed but holding that ever so faint glimmer of hope that the honeymoon phase can start anew.

I think it is only time before all of us battered SE fans pick up and move on. To be honest, i cant think of a game in hte past 10 years that they have made that have held a candle to any of the original games they put out. Maybe this will be the first game i don't buy on grounds of "i don't like it" instead of "i don't want to buy that system just to play this game".

You have no idea how much that pains me to say.

- Kaces, SE fanboy since final fantasy 1 first came out in the US.


:/ and seriously.. is it too much for players to just ask for a good product from a company? especially when they know amazing-ness lies somewhere in the roots of the company.. not in what your currently throwing at us SE. no bueno.
#83 Sep 05 2010 at 10:23 PM Rating: Decent
Need to push launch back? Please, don't you know anything. SE is going to have all those nice purely PC gamers test the via the "Paid Beta" cleverly designed as an actual retail game.

I was not able to get into the closed Beta, but after playing the open Beta for awile, I can't help but realize that it just needs a bit more time in the oven, but will never get it now. The game is probably already long since done and in the process of being cleaned up/shipped/ and advertisted, but because its solely online the other portion of SE staff is eyeballing what needs to be looked at as "drastic" between now and launch to fix the big stuff.

Let me be perfectly clear with my intentions, I think this game is amazing, and despite being a Xbox 360 FFXI player, I look forward to the day when they resume and complete that version of it, and ultimately take my money again. But the Beta proves to me that despite changing it stripes, SE has vastly improved on the things that never stopped me from playing, but still takes its time on the things that plauged me while I did. FFXI was a great game, even with its flaws, but its flaws took years to diminish, and I see no reason why FFXIV will be any different.

They don't need to push launch back, that isn't going to make it anymore or less favorable for them, they need to realize that with the Open Beta letting the game sit out in plain sight, that its not completely ready for the limelight, and needs a bit more time in the oven. Does that mean change the date? No. But it does mean they need to realize they don't have a great amount of success coming to them for this launch, and work toward fixing the bigger stuff like madmen.

I'm fine with the "It's a beta" or "Stop complaining, just be lucky you can play it" or "True FF fans will love this" but I'm also honest enough with myself to admit that as cool as this game looks/plays/is, it isn't worth my money this late September, and more then likely won't be for alittle bit. I'd beta test it for as long as possible, cause I do have fun with it, but even with it running on my PC to a noteworthy degree, it isn't worth it yet.
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#84 Sep 05 2010 at 10:33 PM Rating: Good
TheLordOfTheSandwhich wrote:
Need to push launch back? Please, don't you know anything. SE is going to have all those nice purely PC gamers test the via the "Paid Beta" cleverly designed as an actual retail game.

I was not able to get into the closed Beta, but after playing the open Beta for awile, I can't help but realize that it just needs a bit more time in the oven, but will never get it now. The game is probably already long since done and in the process of being cleaned up/shipped/ and advertisted, but because its solely online the other portion of SE staff is eyeballing what needs to be looked at as "drastic" between now and launch to fix the big stuff.

Let me be perfectly clear with my intentions, I think this game is amazing, and despite being a Xbox 360 FFXI player, I look forward to the day when they resume and complete that version of it, and ultimately take my money again. But the Beta proves to me that despite changing it stripes, SE has vastly improved on the things that never stopped me from playing, but still takes its time on the things that plauged me while I did. FFXI was a great game, even with its flaws, but its flaws took years to diminish, and I see no reason why FFXIV will be any different.

They don't need to push launch back, that isn't going to make it anymore or less favorable for them, they need to realize that with the Open Beta letting the game sit out in plain sight, that its not completely ready for the limelight, and needs a bit more time in the oven. Does that mean change the date? No. But it does mean they need to realize they don't have a great amount of success coming to them for this launch, and work toward fixing the bigger stuff like madmen.

I'm fine with the "It's a beta" or "Stop complaining, just be lucky you can play it" or "True FF fans will love this" but I'm also honest enough with myself to admit that as cool as this game looks/plays/is, it isn't worth my money this late September, and more then likely won't be for alittle bit. I'd beta test it for as long as possible, cause I do have fun with it, but even with it running on my PC to a noteworthy degree, it isn't worth it yet.


I think it's important to remember that Tanaka plays a major role in the development, but Komoto is slowly shaping up to be the front man. When the whole xp decay thing came about and Tanaka had his Twitter outburst about foreign media, a couple of days later Komoto stepped up and did what Tanaka should have started doing 8 years ago...he apologized for the lack of communication immediately prior and offered an explanation.

Let me say that again for emphasis...he apologized and explained. He had been away and unable to respond to the uproar. He explained the system a little more clearly. I didn't buy his excuse for not having been able to be in touch and I think the xp restriction is bologna, but he did what so many XI players spent so many frustrating months/years begging SE to do...he stepped up to the plate and talked.

SE has shown a willingness to adjust throughout the beta. Not everyone is happy with the scope of those adjustments and I'm not shy about my feelings with regards to the UI, but fair is fair...Komoto is trying. I think right now it's just a question of how long before they shuffle Tanaka out of the way and let the new blood step in and do it right. Tanaka has been a part of (almost?) every FF title in the franchise and for that I'm grateful. I enjoyed many, many hours of entertainment as a result in part of his efforts. Sadly, he's demonstrated over time that he just doesn't have the chops to oversee an MMO and keep his market outside of Japan truly happy.
#85 Sep 05 2010 at 10:39 PM Rating: Good
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I haven't encountered one bug that really bothered me. To be honest I haven't even noticed much of anything short of a few mobs not despawning after death. The game in general runs a bit clunky and slow, but whatever it's just beta.
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#86 Sep 05 2010 at 10:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
the lack of (incentive to do) skillchains


This game has skillchains?
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#87 Sep 05 2010 at 10:41 PM Rating: Default
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Great post Aurellius, great post. Youve just explained exactly why a 8 year kb binding problem has also been addressed during a beta test

Kinda funny after that debacle how much crap has been fixed, isnt it? People that witnessed it know and those that didnt just dont understand the stance is a bit different this time. I feel as confident as I ever did and moreso than xi. I dont like calling out men that are much more successful than I, but you can bet there were jobs on the line and it was either the old way or the new way. I can see a complete difference.

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 12:53am by KingRaul
#88 Sep 05 2010 at 10:56 PM Rating: Decent
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I agrees with Aurelius.
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#89 Sep 05 2010 at 11:17 PM Rating: Good
Aurellius wrote:

I think it's important to remember that Tanaka plays a major role in the development, but Komoto is slowly shaping up to be the front man. When the whole xp decay thing came about and Tanaka had his Twitter outburst about foreign media, a couple of days later Komoto stepped up and did what Tanaka should have started doing 8 years ago...he apologized for the lack of communication immediately prior and offered an explanation.

Let me say that again for emphasis...he apologized and explained. He had been away and unable to respond to the uproar. He explained the system a little more clearly. I didn't buy his excuse for not having been able to be in touch and I think the xp restriction is bologna, but he did what so many XI players spent so many frustrating months/years begging SE to do...he stepped up to the plate and talked.

SE has shown a willingness to adjust throughout the beta. Not everyone is happy with the scope of those adjustments and I'm not shy about my feelings with regards to the UI, but fair is fair...Komoto is trying. I think right now it's just a question of how long before they shuffle Tanaka out of the way and let the new blood step in and do it right. Tanaka has been a part of (almost?) every FF title in the franchise and for that I'm grateful. I enjoyed many, many hours of entertainment as a result in part of his efforts. Sadly, he's demonstrated over time that he just doesn't have the chops to oversee an MMO and keep his market outside of Japan truly happy.


Let me be the first to say, that I'm just as proud as you are that a particularly high ranking figure in the development team stepped up to the plate, put their big boy pants on and actually admitted their own wrongs. It's been a long time coming that we would see anything of that sort, and I've played FFXI since 01-02ish.

But as much as I want to applaud the idea of "trying" things become alot more difficult to withstand when money, time, and effort are all involved. Because while I can praise FFXI's adaptability, and take that instance as a sign for good things, it doesn't erase the nightmares that same team has put us through in the past.

The question right now, isn't whether or not they're trying, or making more than a conscious effort, the question is whether or not it's enough to warrant our time and money spent on a product that seems far from complete.

Let's take into consideration, that this is not the first game to hold an open beta so close to its launch. A handful of MMO's are doing it as time goes on, and I've tested many. Most notably, LOTRO. I have yet to see a game so close to release so plauged with flaws, especially when so many people are stressing servers and trying to access it at once, cause preparing the floodgates for the flood itself is pretty important.

Not being able to log onto the game for hours at a time, with no maintenance? That doesn't seem even the slightest bit familiar to anyone?

Constant server crashes, and bugs? Not ringing any bells?

This isn't about what they're doing, with such a potential product, and how they're working on it, but we need to wakeup and realize that "Just the beta" two weeks from release, is probably about as close as we're going to get to the genuine article. I would even go so far as to say that this Beta is more of a extended trial period to generate sales, then it is to actually playtest the game.

I'm not trying to sway anyone from loving the game as much as they do, nor am I trying to stir up a petition to push launch back till they get it down right. But I just want to take the time to mention that it feels like SE has made progress, but not enough to not clone their past mistakes on a bigger, more high definition scale in FFXIV. With LOTRO going free in four days, I'm trying to think from a standpoint larger then my own, that this game really has to sell itself to make it worth time spent, and nothing but its potential has done that in this beta.

My personal response to this, is to just not buy this product till I feel they're doing it right. I'd even say, let the first and faithful few be part of a special program called "paid beta" IE buying it on launch day. OP's response is to say that it should be pushed back. But the idea is that we're not all saying "This is the beta."

Some of us are saying "This kinda sucks."

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 1:19am by TheLordOfTheSandwhich
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#90 Sep 05 2010 at 11:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Seem's to me some people think this is the release version or something lol
#91 Sep 05 2010 at 11:21 PM Rating: Decent
Odentius wrote:
Seem's to me some people think this is the release version or something lol


Seems to me some people are of the impression that SE has a completely different game waiting to ship or that they can overhaul certain game systems in a couple of weeks before the game goes live. Tip: they can't. They don't have time now to be making the kinds of changes people are talking about. And really, that's not even the issue a lot of us are looking at. The issue is how they could have ever thought that things like the UI as it stands were anywhere near adequate even before testing began.
#92 Sep 05 2010 at 11:26 PM Rating: Default
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Seem's to me some people think the beta should go flawlessly without any issue's what so ever. Seriously now and day's ppl think everything should work right from the start for mmo's. If you don't like it do us a favor and stop playing it leave it to the big boy's and gal's who don't cry about it.
#93 Sep 05 2010 at 11:29 PM Rating: Decent
Odentius wrote:
Seem's to me some people think the beta should go flawlessly without any issue's what so ever. Seriously now and day's ppl think everything should work right from the start for mmo's. If you don't like it do us a favor and stop playing it leave it to the big boy's and gal's who don't cry about it.


We're not talking about bugs. We're talking about conscious design choices on the part of the developers. Are you able to make the distinction between the two? And if you're going to talk about "big boys", learn how to use an apostrophe.
#94 Sep 05 2010 at 11:30 PM Rating: Decent
Odentius wrote:
Seem's to me some people think the beta should go flawlessly without any issue's what so ever. Seriously now and day's ppl think everything should work right from the start for mmo's. If you don't like it do us a favor and stop playing it leave it to the big boy's and gal's who don't cry about it.


Seems to me some people don't realize that they're going to be part of that lovely "Paid Beta" at the end of the month. It also seems to me like some of us don't understand the "crying" about it part is kind of the point of a beta. But if things don't seem that way to you then by all means keep being silent about **** that doesn't work correctly.

Based on this companies track record, they're going to read your mind and get right on that.
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#95 Sep 05 2010 at 11:31 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
but fair is fair...Komoto is trying.
Who cares if he's just trying? If he's not succeeding, he's failing. Let his wife worry about whether or not he tried. I'm not going to play a ****** game just because Komoto really gave it his all.
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#96 Sep 05 2010 at 11:35 PM Rating: Default
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The conscious design choices is up to the developer's not you if don't like it quit. Will they end up changing things up yes because it a mmo they do it in all mmo's. Thanks for keeping my grammar up on a forum really not here to impress you that what every person do when the get mad is oh you mispelled something our use apostrophe typical response...
#97 Sep 05 2010 at 11:36 PM Rating: Good
bsphil wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
but fair is fair...Komoto is trying.
Who cares if he's just trying? If he's not succeeding, he's failing. Let his wife worry about whether or not he tried. I'm not going to play a sh*tty game just because Komoto really gave it his all.


The point I'm getting at is that right now, Tanaka is listed as one of the producers of the game. That means he still has a lot of say in how things are done. Yet despite that, Komoto is the one who has stood out to me as the kind of guy who can work with the community to make the game truly shine and live up to all the hype. Obviously I'm not privy to the goings on at SE headquarters, but I recall Tanaka saying that this time he was trying to step back and let some of the younger guys get more involved. Something about how they need a chance to learn how to become good game developers, too. Hint: Tanaka developed the XI UI on his own. Now we've got an expanded version of the list menus/slash commands. Wanna bet he had a major hand in that one, too? Too many chiefs in the XIV dev rooms. Get rid of the one who has demonstrated that he's mediocre on his better days an miserable the rest of the time.
#98 Sep 05 2010 at 11:39 PM Rating: Decent
Odentius wrote:
The conscious design choices is up to the developer's not you if don't like it quit. Will they end up changing things up yes because it a mmo they do it in all mmo's.


And we're here to discuss those choices. And when you step in telling us we're out of touch with reality because it's a beta, you're not contributing anything meaningful. We know what it is. We know SE's history. We know how much time they have left to make changes. And we're well within our rights to be critical of something that is so widely received as a let down (speaking to the UI, that is.)

Quote:
Thanks for keeping my grammar up on a forum really not here to impress you that what every person do when the get mad is oh you mispelled something our use apostrophe typical response...


....
#99 Sep 05 2010 at 11:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Seem's to me some people think the beta should go flawlessly without any issue's what so ever. Seriously now and day's ppl think everything should work right from the start for mmo's. If you don't like it do us a favor and stop playing it leave it to the big boy's and gal's who don't cry about it.


Well, I don't think beta should be flawless, but I tried it on my husband's computer since mine can't run it, and I wasn't impressed. It wasn't engaging, it was laggy, it was "meh" in a word. It's not really that I'm crying but the game costs $75.00. That is a lot of money for a sub-par product. Plus, my household needs 2 copies...and my 2 year old machine can't run it. So I need a computer in addition to two copies of the $75.00 sub-par game. But yeah, I'm just crying and I need to leave XIV to the big boys.
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#100 Sep 05 2010 at 11:41 PM Rating: Decent
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:/ and seriously.. is it too much for players to just ask for a good product from a company? especially when they know amazing-ness lies somewhere in the roots of the company.. not in what your currently throwing at us SE. no bueno.

If you didn't think the product is good you wouldn't still be here, but people are greedy and no matter what you give them they always want more. Look at your favorite fast food chain, you eat there atleast 3 or 4 times a week, you love their burgers (whatever)...things changed over the past year and the burger quality declined...do you stick to this burger chain because "they had good product" in the past? I doubt it but if they problem was that the burgers were a little overcooked at times you'd be willing to come back because its not really that big a deal. With SE, everything is overcooked but it still tastes **** delicious!! hallelujahs!

(worst analogy ever -.-)
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#101 Sep 05 2010 at 11:46 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
As far as i have seen, everything that people complained about got fixed.... for the most part. Here are a few examples:


There's a difference between complaining about things to the devs, suggesting it be changed, and complaining about stuff on a forum because you don't like it. The latter is what a majority of people are doing. People are just going "WAAH THIS SUCKS, how could they even plan to release this piece of ****." A sh*tload of people seem to think that SE isn't making changes to stuff, when it's fairly obvious to anybody who has played multiple phases that they are.

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 1:47am by Deadgye
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