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Learning Crafting RecipesFollow

#1 Sep 05 2010 at 3:33 AM Rating: Decent
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I equipped the hammer and pliers and... now what? Is it just trial and error/guessing recipes? Do they really expect people to alt-tab to search up online what recipes are that other people found? Even then, how do we know which ones to start with and which ones cap at what rank?

Am I missing something here because it seems like they're just saying "Pick up these tools and guess the recipe!"??? Is this what it was like in FFXI? I can't remember.
#2 Sep 05 2010 at 3:34 AM Rating: Good
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Local Levequests, they give you recipes by having you do them for others, and you get a prize on completion of another recipe you have to write down somewhere (I recommend the forearm, keeps 'em handy).
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#3 Sep 05 2010 at 3:41 AM Rating: Good
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I remember the NPCs in the guilds would often offer recipes in XI. I'm thinking there should be some of that in the retail version...would be nice.
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#4 Sep 05 2010 at 4:27 AM Rating: Good
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My collectors edition Traveler's Journal will be used as my recipe book. >.>
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#5 Sep 05 2010 at 4:39 AM Rating: Decent
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So you have to actually write them down IRL? that is really lame.

I was thinking how am I meant to remember a recipe I learnt yesterday along with the other 8 i learned.
#6 Sep 05 2010 at 5:21 AM Rating: Decent
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You don't have to write them down but I have no other use for the journal given. FFXI was the same way, have to remember the recipes, look them up somewhere, write them down or some NPCS would tell you random recipes. In FFXIV, it looks like the local guildleves are the current way of figuring out how to craft new things.
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#7 Sep 05 2010 at 6:10 AM Rating: Good
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I absolutely hate the fact that we are having to work out how the play the game for ourselves. Why cant FFXIV be more like every other game out there and provide us with all the recipes off the bat without any work.

It really frustrates me that I am having to wait for either SE to fix their game or for someone else to work out how to play and tell me.

On a serious note - I sympathise. I got so frustrated trying to craft that I took a break from it!
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#8 Sep 05 2010 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
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Along with providing all the recipes without having to find them or figure them out maybe they could also make it so you never fail a synth and that you always get high-quality. Or better yet make it so that all you do is type in the name of the item you want to make and you get it automatically without using any ingrediants.
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#9 Sep 05 2010 at 7:55 AM Rating: Default
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There were some talks of adding a tradeskill journal that adds recipes you find automatically, but who knows.

Anyway, I feel bad for some of you people. This reminds me of Everquest and FFXI so much. I get the nostalgia buzz from all the stuff that frustrates you guys.
#10 Sep 05 2010 at 8:39 AM Rating: Decent
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"Along with providing all the recipes without having to find them or figure them out maybe they could also make it so you never fail a synth and that you always get high-quality. Or better yet make it so that all you do is type in the name of the item you want to make and you get it automatically without using any ingrediants."



There is a difference between making the game easier to play, and making it pointless.

The developers aim is to work out which part of the game is fun, and make it as easy as possible for players to do that thing. Crafting items in the traditional way, while frustrating sometimes, is fun. It wouldn't be fun if everyone made the best items every time.

But most people would agree that writing lots of stuff down and looking it up is not fun. It's like having to type in the name of your attack every time you want to use it. There's no skill or luck involved, just work, and that's not fun.


EDIT: Also, could someone tell me how to quote another post properly on this forum?

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 10:40am by Bglamb
#11 Sep 05 2010 at 8:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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LioenHeart wrote:
So you have to actually write them down IRL? that is really lame.

I was thinking how am I meant to remember a recipe I learnt yesterday along with the other 8 i learned.


You could email us and we will add them to the database...just sayin'. Smiley: grin
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#12 Sep 05 2010 at 8:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bglamb wrote:
"Along with providing all the recipes without having to find them or figure them out maybe they could also make it so you never fail a synth and that you always get high-quality. Or better yet make it so that all you do is type in the name of the item you want to make and you get it automatically without using any ingrediants."



There is a difference between making the game easier to play, and making it pointless.

The developers aim is to work out which part of the game is fun, and make it as easy as possible for players to do that thing. Crafting items in the traditional way, while frustrating sometimes, is fun. It wouldn't be fun if everyone made the best items every time.

But most people would agree that writing lots of stuff down and looking it up is not fun. It's like having to type in the name of your attack every time you want to use it. There's no skill or luck involved, just work, and that's not fun.


EDIT: Also, could someone tell me how to quote another post properly on this forum?

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 10:40am by Bglamb


Click reply to post on the post you want to quote, then click the "quote original" link on the post page (under the subject text box).

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 9:44am by Wint
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#13 Sep 05 2010 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:


Click reply to post on the post you want to quote, then click the "quote original" link on the post page (under the subject text box).

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 9:44am by Wint


Wikkid an' ting.

Must have missed it. Thx

And the database here would be very helpful if I could Alt-Tab without crashing FF :P

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 10:46am by Bglamb
#14 Sep 05 2010 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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Bglamb wrote:
Wint wrote:


Click reply to post on the post you want to quote, then click the "quote original" link on the post page (under the subject text box).

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 9:44am by Wint


Wikkid an' ting.

Must have missed it. Thx

And the database here would be very helpful if I could Alt-Tab without crashing FF :P

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 10:46am by Bglamb


I play it in windowed mode anyway, gets rid of the "unable to detect directx version" crash everytime you window it, and the same seems to run smoother!

And i would email you the recipes I found, if I could remember them haha, I know that 5 nuggets of any type makes a single ingot. Thats about all I can remember haha..

I'm working on crafting myself some armour atm, getting the "Copper Barbut Helm" got the mats but aint gonna risk crafting it until level 10 armourer at LEAST. Also i'm working towards the bronze chainmail, which will take alot of making this then turning it into that kind of stuff before I get it, but should be worth it!

Also does anyone know how you get the speciality training? such as smelting training chainweave training or whatever, I can't seem to pick up ANY blacksmithing / armoursmithing guild points doing anything!
#15 Sep 05 2010 at 9:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Someone rate up Hallie, please? It's early and I didn't realize she was being sarcastic.
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#16 Sep 05 2010 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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shiftwindow ( http://grismar.net/shiftwindow/ ) will correct a minimized mode window to hide the borders, so it's just like playing in Maximized Windowed Mode in WoW.
#17 Sep 05 2010 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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The complaining people about having to "work" to find recipes for items obviously have never play FFXI.. don't you guys enjoy the challenge of it all? I mean, it's a RPG.. you discover things on your own. Or does it need to be like most every other mmo out there and have a recipe book like WoW does. Eventually all of the recipes to obtain in the game will most likely be posted on sites like this so that the complainers will be happy. Just giving my opinion and 2 cents.
FFXI was set apart from all other mmo's imho because of the challenge of it all.

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 11:47am by TAOQUIN
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#18 Sep 05 2010 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm having a lot of trouble with it. I'm levelling goldsmith. Not through choice, that's just the only thing I coulod get the mats for to get started. I went wood hunting for hours which was time wasted because I didn't have a single wind shard which is needed for most carpenter recipes.

Anyway, I got to rank 5 goldsmith using vendor bought mats (mining hasn't found me anything I can use) and now I'm stuck. The rank 5 leve requires further training. The recipe I was using before costs around 500gil per craft and isn't giving enough exp to keep it going until rank 10 :/ I can't even smelt my copper ore without smelting training.

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 11:47am by parabolaa
#19 Sep 05 2010 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
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parabolaa wrote:

Anyway, I got to rank 5 goldsmith using vendor bought mats (mining hasn't found me anything I can use) and now I'm stuck. The rank 5 leve requires further training. The recipe I was using before costs around 500gil per craft and isn't giving enough exp to keep it going until rank 10 :/ I can't even smelt my copper ore without smelting training.
Edited, Sep 5th 2010 11:47am by parabolaa


I'm curious to learn what recipe that you were using to level your Gold Smithing? What vendor materials were you using? I went down the road of using the fish that I caught to make into sand. I made a few levels of Gold Smithing with that alone.
#20 Sep 05 2010 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Copper nugget and copper ingot bought from the goldsmith vendor. I think it makes some kind of necklace, I can't remember now. 3 fire shards and 3 earth shards too. The mats cost 1200 for each craft, but the product sells back for around 700 I think.
#21 Sep 05 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent
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hints wrote:
shiftwindow ( http://grismar.net/shiftwindow/ ) will correct a minimized mode window to hide the borders, so it's just like playing in Maximized Windowed Mode in WoW.


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#22 Sep 05 2010 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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TAOQUIN wrote:
The complaining people about having to "work" to find recipes for items obviously have never play FFXI.. don't you guys enjoy the challenge of it all? I mean, it's a RPG.. you discover things on your own. Or does it need to be like most every other mmo out there and have a recipe book like WoW does. Eventually all of the recipes to obtain in the game will most likely be posted on sites like this so that the complainers will be happy. Just giving my opinion and 2 cents.
FFXI was set apart from all other mmo's imho because of the challenge of it all.

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 11:47am by TAOQUIN


I think you misunderstand.

The complaint is that once you've learned it, you need to memorise it, and there's no legitimate need for that.

And as for people having to work to find out their recipes, I'm sure it's an admirable aim that many have now, but we all know that it won't take long for these people to give up and just google it. Nobody is going to waste their hard earned time and resources on something they can just ask other people for.

I like the system, where you can learn various recipes in game, but then having to write them all down on a bit of paper and stick it to your monitor is bad game design, however you wanna look at it.

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 12:05pm by Bglamb
#23 Sep 05 2010 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
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I like having to learn recipes, but what I don't like is, once you've learnt it, it should be a page in your Journal or something, "blackmithing learnt recipes" And it tells you the ones you've learnt from leves, SE can't expect you to remember every single recipe you've learnt.
#24 Sep 05 2010 at 10:09 AM Rating: Default
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I don't misunderstand anything. This is simply my opinion on the current situation. I just enjoy the challenge of figuring it out on my own is all. I think others would tend to agree, but not all obviously.
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#25 Sep 05 2010 at 10:11 AM Rating: Default
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It's a different crafting system. It's not the playskool crafting system seen in other MMORPGS. I look at it as a challenge.
#26 Sep 05 2010 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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TAOQUIN wrote:
I don't misunderstand anything. This is simply my opinion on the current situation. I just enjoy the challenge of figuring it out on my own is all. I think others would tend to agree, but not all obviously.


Maybe we've crossed lines somewhere. I thought everyone did agree and were moaning about the fact that they're not written down in-game once you've learned them.
#27 Sep 05 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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If you are in Gridania area wind shards can be obtained pretty regularly from killing the Honeybee swarms.
#28 Sep 05 2010 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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On topic. I do agree that once you have made or learned a particular recipe there should be a place for quick access that would work like the local guildleves do. By clicking the requested items tab and the mats should be auto added pending you have them in your inventory the proper shards.

I think that would streamline things a bit.
#29 Sep 05 2010 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
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FFXI relied heavily on outside websites to learn and publish recipes. So far, it looks like they're planning the same thing for FFXIV, but maybe if we complain loud enough they'll add a system where you can store learned recipes somehow. Though tbh, I would not like having to learn every recipe through guildleves by myself, that would take forever. As it is, I know wiki sites will quickly accumulate recipes and those will be more convenient than any in-game storage that only saves recipes I've learned from a quest.
#30 Sep 05 2010 at 10:29 AM Rating: Default
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It all comes down to recipe book or no recipe book. Personally, I really don't care. If you played FFXI then you know there was NOT one. You would come to sites like this one, go into the database and use your printer to print out your recipe lists..it's really not that hard to do. Having a recipe book in the game is basically doing what WoW does and most other elementary mmo's that are out there. If SE decides to go that route too, it won't bother me I guess. I guess I'm just old school ffxi and enjoyed doing it that way.
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#31 Sep 05 2010 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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The only reason it's good to be different is so you can do something better.

Avoiding doing things well, just to be different is very frustrating.
#32 Sep 05 2010 at 10:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I absolutely hate the fact that we are having to work out how the play the game for ourselves. Why cant FFXIV be more like every other game out there and provide us with all the recipes off the bat without any work.


That is why I love SEs games. You aren't handed everything. Yes for early adopters it means we have to figure things out for ourselves. Boo fing hoo. Grow up and learn that life isn't handed to you on a platter.

Now yes it would be nice to have something in game to write down recipes on. But the fact that we aren't just told what they are is great.

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 12:34pm by Kuhaa
#33 Sep 05 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Decent
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I totally agree with you Kuhaa.
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#34 Sep 06 2010 at 10:02 AM Rating: Default
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I LOVE the fact that we have to write this stuff down as we go and that they don't just 'give' us the recipes but rather make us work for them. Their entire crafting and synthesis system is why I LOVE this game. I absolutely hate games like Warcraft that just 'give' you everything because it's just soooooo boring! Ffxi and ffxiv are amazing and I hope they never change this stuff!
#35 Sep 06 2010 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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Hey guys, I found this, hope it helps!

http://www.ffxivrecipes.info/recipes.php?CraftID=4
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#36SarnathXofXOdin, Posted: Sep 06 2010 at 3:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Maybe it's me but, I don't understand the frustration behind this.
#37 Sep 06 2010 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
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SarnathXofXOdin wrote:
Maybe it's me but, I don't understand the frustration behind this.

First did XI just have readily available recipes? or did someone have to pioneer them and put them up on a database for all to use?

Also did XI give you an option to have a handy dandy recipe book you pulled from your subligar when you forgot how to make a great sword, yag drinks, or a mithkabob?

If I recall, there was none of that in XI. Anything you needed you had to learn or go find on the net.


Which was lame. I really don't understand the appeal in making things difficult just to be difficult. Oh wow I have to exit out of the game (still no alt-tab!) and look up everything on a website! Look how challenging and exciting this is!

God you people sometimes I mean Jesus.
#38 Sep 06 2010 at 3:29 PM Rating: Excellent
TAOQUIN wrote:
The complaining people about having to "work" to find recipes for items obviously have never play FFXI.. don't you guys enjoy the challenge of it all? I mean, it's a RPG.. you discover things on your own. Or does it need to be like most every other mmo out there and have a recipe book like WoW does. Eventually all of the recipes to obtain in the game will most likely be posted on sites like this so that the complainers will be happy. Just giving my opinion and 2 cents.
FFXI was set apart from all other mmo's imho because of the challenge of it all.


I don't think the issue has to do with "challenge". I think the issue has to do with tedium, and there's a big, big difference. Tedium is the repetition of mundane tasks that, in of themselves, are not entertaining or rewarding. The act of fighting or actually working through the synthesis can be entertaining. Someone posted a link to a site with a fairly well fleshed out crafting database with a ton of recipes. Currently, for a game in beta with content limited to rank/level 30, there are over 105 recipes listed for blackmsithing alone already.

Good stuff. Love diversity. It's great for the people who are enthusiastic about playing the game primarily as crafters. Ignoring the way the interface handles it, there's a ton of potential for the crafting system, but stop and think it through.

Do you REALLY think the average player is going to painstakingly record every crafting recipe they come across in the game, or are they more likely to bookmark an online recipe database and refer to that? We already know the answer to that...for years in FFXI, the answer could be summed up with "MysteryTour". That's just the way it is. That's how people are going to approach it. So knowing that, why not just provide it in-game? Six of one, half dozen of the other, with the added advantage that if you incorporate it directly into the game, you're not going to have your players cursing you for having such a ****** system.
#39 Sep 06 2010 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent
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How is this system of learning crafting recipes any different from XI? I had print outs and post-its to remember different recipes in XI.
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#40 Sep 06 2010 at 7:08 PM Rating: Default
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This is exactly why I hated games like Warcraft. All the recipes were known and everything was made so simple you could max out any crafting class in 3-4 hours and then whats left?? Nothing but humdrum boredom because when everyone has everything, nothing is needed. I don't even both using the databases in this game, I love being able to 'discover' it on my own. To me, this is what real MMO's are all about. The detail they put into these games makes sure I'll be here for years to come, Happily!
#41 Sep 07 2010 at 2:39 AM Rating: Default
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AngusX wrote:
Someone rate up Hallie, please? It's early and I didn't realize she was being sarcastic.


Yes, please do :-)

I am becoming a little frustrated that everyone wants everything on a plate. I am not criticising the OP on this post but people are complaining about so many of the things that I actually love about the game.

Yes, its hard! No, SE have not explained everything to you in a manual. No, there is no "tutorial" as such. Yes, you are expected to think for yourself. No, you probably wont hit cap in a week. Yes, SE does expect you to gradually learn recipes over time. No you will not always succeed in crafting +1s (epics whatever), Yes, you are required to Group to get the best things. No, SE is not going to provide you a convenient yellow arrow over quest givers heads. Yes, there are menu screens to navigate - its an RPG.

WoW have been fantastic in opening the eyes of a bunch of players who would never have touched an MMO before and I congratulate Blizzard on their commercial success but they have created havoc on the general community of MMO's in that everything else now has to be as easy as WoW otherwise people complain about it.

Rant over - that is all!
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#42 Sep 07 2010 at 2:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Dunno about you guys but what I do is travel between cities (which I'm gonna assume will be made even easier on release with airships and whatnot) and pick up local leves. Say I do 6 local leves starting out a craft, that is 12 new recipes I learned (assuming I didn't fail them), I would call that giving us recipes - its not bad at all...i am enjoying crafting a lot so far, I wouldn't mind if they added a recipe book that posts recipes you've done and succeeded on, but i'm used to looking these up online from FFXI so I don't mind either way but it would be nice. 6 leves, 12 recipes, some crafting in between, rinse, repeat with higher level local leves...its simple.

EDIT: also wanted to add anyone else love how they made guildleves? I enjoying the story behind the leve more than I do the actual quest itself - gives the world a lot more depth and personality.

Edited, Sep 7th 2010 4:50am by SolidMack
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#43 Sep 07 2010 at 3:02 AM Rating: Good
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The OP wanting to have all recepies available to try out (aka WoW) is a bad idea as it takes out all the fun of crafting (I think I'm moe proud of 40/50 Bonecraft I had in FFXI than 275 or something Clothcraft in WoW) but I think most people in the last few posts are just hammering the same opinion without noticing that people are now asking for a blank recepy book which will acumulate recepies only after the character has successfully created the item.

to me, personally the best way was to prevent any .dat mining worldwide (dreamer, you always were a dreamer) and create a recepy book like the one detailed above.
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#44 Sep 07 2010 at 4:21 AM Rating: Good
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I'm going to be running in windowed mode most of the time (fits better on my screen that way for some reason) and im gonna be at least half (if not all) of the DoH as my main classes when game comes out. so far in this beta, i've gotten rank 10 weaver, armorer, tanner, blacksmith

Going to be having some notebook pages up to make sure i get down all of the recipes as i go along

Also, i've noticed that when doing the Local Guildleves that if you complete the quest successfully, when you turn them in, as a reward , you get the recipe for some random thing within the level range, like when i turned in quest that i made subligars in, reward gave me some handle grip recipe, too bad they dont have like an in game recipe book kinda kept like key items (too close to Wow in just giving you every recipe all the time tho, would rather there be a little challenge to it)
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#45Gadhelyn, Posted: Sep 07 2010 at 7:04 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Shhhh, I think the easier-way-of-life fanboys are out rating people down who like playing games with a higher difficulty level than Very Easy.
#46 Sep 07 2010 at 7:16 AM Rating: Good
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Lol, I love how you're all saying "Its a challenge" and then in the sentence underneath "You have to go look at a website and print them off"

Completely contradicts yourself, they might aswell just add an ingame recipe book for the ones you've learned, that way it's tougher than going to a site and printing off a page, because it only shows you the ones you've learned.
#47 Sep 07 2010 at 11:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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ehhh, im not saying it should have something you could just click on or tell you everything in the game, however adding some sort of ingame thing that remembers your unlocked recipes, or sucessful crafts could be more than just a list, it could be an achievement. unlocking all recipes, list of what your best synth is on these recipes, maybe some titles for it. And also maybe adding some quests, or events for finding specific wierder or hard to figure recipes. It has potential to make crafting more fun collection/achievement wise.

In short, potentially improving the game more.

I honestly see no point in having to go to another webpage, or print out recipes as an added game feature, also remember they are marketing this to console users too. aint no alt tab in ps3
#48 Sep 07 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Default
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Which was lame. I really don't understand the appeal in making things difficult just to be difficult. Oh wow I have to exit out of the game (still no alt-tab!) and look up everything on a website! Look how challenging and exciting this is!

God you people sometimes I mean Jesus.



Interesting, So you have no access to a printer or print paper?
I managed to print all the recipes I needed for XI and have them sitting on the keyboard tray ready to go. I was able to mark on the print out where I was with leveling that craft, put a highlight mark of the color crystal I needed, and basically customize my document right there in real time.

Seems some folks are just wanting things to be handed to them on a plate, tell ya what, why don't you go sit over there in the corner and let us play the game for you too, we'll call you over every now and then to get your opinion on how things are going MkayTHXBYE!

God forbid you should use that thing between your ears for something other than where you left your hot dog and fries.

Quote:
Shhhh, I think the easier-way-of-life fanboys are out rating people down who like playing games with a higher difficulty level than Very Easy.


LOL!

Edited, Sep 7th 2010 2:37pm by SarnathXofXOdin
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#49 Sep 07 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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My $0.02 are this...

I actually enjoy not having an in-game recipe log and not all the recipes on display for everyone unless you put in the work to discover them or learn them from an NPC as a reward.

HOWEVER, since datamining exists and all of the items and their recipes will exist within minutes of the retail release going live (or before), then it makes the challenge of learning recipes and writing them down pointless. Because of datamining, I do think that SE should implement a recipe notebook in-game.
#50 Sep 07 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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This news just in...

Square-Enix servers aren't the only ones to be brought to their knees on the Open Beta release. The internet database site ffxivcraftingvault.com has reported having to shut servers down due to an overflow of traffic that suspiciously coincides with the Open beta release of FFXIV. As to why these two events occurred almost simultaneously, Square-Enix, nor ffxivcraftingvault.com, seem to have any indication that they are in any way related.

On a more serious note, all you crafters better have a backup source for recipes, in case your primary goes down or plan on switching to a DoW/DoH class until servers come back up.
#51 Sep 07 2010 at 12:48 PM Rating: Excellent
While I do think that once you learn a recipie it should be saved in a journal somwhere, I also like having a hard copy. Guess that comes from the old days when you had to write down things for RPGs.
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