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Downgraded party system?Follow

#1 Sep 05 2010 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Downgraded party system..?

I'm a little confused as to why they REMOVED good features.. I'm finding it very hard to comprehend why they would remove, not try to improve upon, but REMOVE certain features:

the search for players (/sea, /sea all etc)

you need to TARGET the player to invite them to a party, meaning they have to be within about 20 feet from you.
the looking for group is terrible now, it's not even that its different, it just doesnt work very well and i honestly think FFXI's lfg system was partly why the community was so great

oh and you can't see your party members on your MAP? just the minimap, so again, they have to be within a few feet of you or else it's pretty hard to find. They didnt even include the <pos> to give coordinates so that has to be done manually as well

Are these features that they have waiting for us to surprise us when it comes out in 2 weeks or?
#2 Sep 05 2010 at 5:16 PM Rating: Default
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You are looking at this wrong. SE wants FFXIV to be challenging. Embrace the challenge
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#3 Sep 05 2010 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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all of this seems like something they will most likely include in the release of the game, probably just saving all the easy little things for last since they have their hands full.
#4 Sep 05 2010 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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sarcasm? lol

no seriously, I played ffxi for many many years, I how SE does it, but this is just shocking :(
#5 Sep 05 2010 at 5:19 PM Rating: Good
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hope ur right baldwin =)
#6 Sep 05 2010 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I dont know but I'm in the same boat. I recently made it to about level 12 and it seems everything is either WAY too hard, or WAY too easy. Basically you need a group to advance at this point. And I cant figure out the LFG system for the life of me. It only allows you to search for people in your area immediate area or across the whole world. There's no way to flag up for a group. Nobody is even trying to group up it seems. I've been in 1 group since playing. Everyone seems to be under the impression that soloing is the way to go.

I dont get it though. There's no way they can expect me to solo easy prey mobs all the way up to level 20+. I mean green mobs at level 12 kill me in 2 shots, there has to be group play involved at this point. I just dont see how. The FFXI LFG system was one of the best I ever used in a mmo. Aion is probably the only one that was better. But this is just "wtf?" worthy.

I really hope it's just for beta because at the moment the only way I see getting a group together is by talking to people standing beside you. And we all know how well that will work.

I also dont understand why nobody talks. It's like everyone has their chat windows turned off. Hardly anybody responds to tells or say or even shout EVER. Just seems like a very anti-social community at the moment. I do enjoy having no global chat, but it seems it's gone even farther than that.

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 7:22pm by Soezu
#7 Sep 05 2010 at 5:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Well in regards to your issues, are you picking a hard difficulty maybe? single star guildleves or 3-4 while soloing? or are you just talking grinding mobs.. havnt made it that far yet but I would think all the battleleves would be soloable at 1 star.

agreed with systems used, i prefered ffxi over aion, over wow, even the auto grouping in warhammer (although that had potential).. flaggig up and being able to search everyone flagged, while seemingly primitive, actually worked very very well
#8 Sep 05 2010 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Aion took it a step further. Aion was the same as FFXI LFG system but you could also view the groups that were seeking members.

1 menu was everyone looking for a party, the other menu was groups looking for members. By far the best LFG system I ever saw. It also put links into your chat to "apply to group" and "recruit group" so people can just click it to join.

but yeah, guildleves are once every 48 hours. We're talking about grinding which is the MAIN way to get exp in FFXIV. Anyone that think guildleves are the focal point is delusional. Guildleves are for casual players that only come on once and a while. This game still supports hardcore group grinding for those that play more than once every 48 hours.
#9 Sep 05 2010 at 5:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Yea exactly, thats why I still have hope that most of the mentioned features are going to be added at release... because it seems as though they are just testing out the core "aspects" of the game and to get everyone familiar with what's different / new this time around, assuming what everything else is a given?

I still dont know if i agree with it though because a lot of people use beta as a determining factor when choosing to buy it
#10 Sep 05 2010 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
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the LFG group system in FFXIV will have to be a very indeept system where we can show all of our skill lvld classes and our main role in party..something like " lvl25 [x]L.17con [x]L.15 thm" and they should also add the crafting and land classes for ppl looking for armor & supply


the LFG system ganna be ether great.. or suck hard lol
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#11 Sep 05 2010 at 7:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Let's be realistic this game was freakin made for a console.. notice how we can't even right click in the game :| ... So in order to balance the game between consoles and pc.. they simplified the game in to the ground.. You cannot have multiple chat channels.. filters probably won't exist, etc,etc..

Think about it this way.. if you can't do it on a console then you won't be able to do it on a pc.. That is the reality and truth as of now..
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#12 Sep 05 2010 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
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What's new? You cant have a cross platform game and make 1 platform way better than the other. If you try the **** controller instead of ******** and complaining about it you'd see it's actually quite good.

Do you go on NHL10 forums and cry you cant use mouse keyboard? It's really no big deal if you can afford a controller. I think the controls are amazing and guess what? I play EVERY OTHER mmo with mouse and keyboard. It's just a matter of people like you not wanting to "change". That's all it is. I think it's great i can sit back in my lazyboy chair and play instead of upright on a computer desk where my back eventually starts to ache.

People need to look at the benefits rather than the "zomg im not used to this, i should be able to play this game like how i play all my other games, this game sucks and it will fail because it doesnt mould to my liking."

edit:

But you can have different chat channels
But you can filter almost everything

Just because you dont know how to do something does not mean it doesnt exists. And just because your whole life you've played platform exclusive games means you completely ignore the fact that this is a cross platform game where both PC and Console players play TOGETHER.

Anyway, you drove things off topic, this is about the LFG, which needs some serious work. FFXI had an AMAZING lfg system and that was cross platform over 3 different platforms...

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 10:07pm by Soezu

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 10:08pm by Soezu
#13 Sep 05 2010 at 8:05 PM Rating: Default
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uhh.. No one is ******** you are just blowing it out of proportion.. because you are a **** hurt fanboy..
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WoW: we want to give players a more fun time with less grinding and generic quests
GW2: we want the player to feel like they are leveling while doing something fun
Final Fantasy XIV: we want less fun and more grinding
#14 Sep 05 2010 at 8:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Are these features that they have waiting for us to surprise us when it comes out in 2 weeks or?


I'm crossing my fingers. I NEED lfg and <pos> lol...i'm sure the party members will show up on map for retail, it'd be stupid if they don't...i dunno...party systema all together still needs work, I hope they have a better version somewhere and they give it to us soon.
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#15 Sep 05 2010 at 8:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Fanboy? I'm far from a fanboy lol. I think the game should be pushed away from launch another 2-3 months. I'm just not a dumbass.

#16 Sep 05 2010 at 8:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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They have been releasing new stuff steadily throughout beta. They also said that we aren't going to see everything in beta. There is good reason to believe that some issues will be resolved when the game goes live. I do miss the party flag thing, so i hope the put that back, along with /sea /sea all /sea all ?-?.

I'd say i was amazed by the lack of this stuff, but i was amazed that there wasn't a /sit command at one point. Now there is.
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#17 Sep 05 2010 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
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nick2412 wrote:
uhh.. No one is ******** you are just blowing it out of proportion.. because you are a **** hurt fanboy..


Calling people a "fanboy" is like admitting, that you have no intelligent response to his argument. You have a right to your opinion, and so does everyone else. If you have to resort to calling people names, then you might as well put " I have no discussion skills" right in your sig, so everyone can see.
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#18 Sep 05 2010 at 9:46 PM Rating: Good
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I'm pretty sure the current party system isn't finished. They're going to be adding features with version updates a few at a time so they can debug each system at once. If they went into open beta with all the stuff active at once, they'd be introducing a hojillion different bugs that would be impossible to track because of how all the bugs interact with the other bugs. This way, they're doing things methodically so they can make sure one set of stuff works before real world testing the next set.
#19 Sep 05 2010 at 9:56 PM Rating: Good
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I completely agree with you on this thread. There is no rhyme or reason to the part structure either. Just a bunch of jobs thrown in and a bunch of grinding. I like having some structure. With 10 people parties I just feel like it's going to be a nightmare trying to set up battle regiments and what not.
#20 Sep 05 2010 at 9:59 PM Rating: Default
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Teneleven wrote:
nick2412 wrote:
uhh.. No one is ******** you are just blowing it out of proportion.. because you are a **** hurt fanboy..


Calling people a "fanboy" is like admitting, that you have no intelligent response to his argument. You have a right to your opinion, and so does everyone else. If you have to resort to calling people names, then you might as well put " I have no discussion skills" right in your sig, so everyone can see.


Awesome.
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#21 Sep 05 2010 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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Not being able to invite friends through a simple command line is probably the most frustrating thing i have found so far.

The fact this game is going to rely on third party sites yet you are required to dumb down to a console level is going to create quite some angst in the future.
#22 Sep 05 2010 at 10:20 PM Rating: Good
Slapaho wrote:
I completely agree with you on this thread. There is no rhyme or reason to the part structure either. Just a bunch of jobs thrown in and a bunch of grinding. I like having some structure. With 10 people parties I just feel like it's going to be a nightmare trying to set up battle regiments and what not.


There's no structure right now because the players aren't structuring themselves. Just before the servers crashed, I was in a five person party doing some battlecraft leves. It was what I posted about earlier with regards to most XI roaming parties, offset by the fact that you've got so many classes that seem like tanks. Everyone just runs and smacks something. In this case, the people I was with were not terrible...they at least had the good sense to try and smack the same thing. But in the absence of prior communication and established roles, it was just an orgy of ability spam, and we paid for it with a wipe when two extra baddies spawned (the leve originally said we had to kill four, and when we were killing the fourth it ran off and two more spawned, and the kill requirement went up to six).

Give it time. The lack of structure will likely make for painful PUGs, at least early on. And I would expect that even as time goes on, you're still going to find an awful lot of people who don't have (and refuse to get) a clue about how to build and execute a winning strategy.
#23 Sep 05 2010 at 10:21 PM Rating: Default
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Slapaho wrote:
I completely agree with you on this thread. There is no rhyme or reason to the part structure either. Just a bunch of jobs thrown in and a bunch of grinding. I like having some structure. With 10 people parties I just feel like it's going to be a nightmare trying to set up battle regiments and what not.


You make a good point I didnt even think of that when creating the thread.... the parties are /15 now, I remember putting 1 party together (my 1 and only thorughout beta so far) and it was 8 people, we just ran around in a pact and jus swarmed the mobs with absolutely no structure or planning it was so .. i dont know... wowish?

the 6 person structured camping / pulling kind of thing was AWESOME =(
#24 Sep 05 2010 at 10:26 PM Rating: Good
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we just ran around in a pact and jus swarmed the mobs with absolutely no structure or planning it was so .. i dont know... wowish?


I'd ask you to not talk about games you know nothing about.

I really really don't want to get into another FF vs WoW argument, but let's just leave it at the fact that Grouping in WoW is _very_ structured... not to toot WoW's horn, I think it is a little too structured. 1 tank, 1 heal, 3 DD in nearly all 5-man dungeons, etc etc yadda yadda. Each class/role has a set few actions that should be performed in x order... hit Buttons 1, 2, 3, 4 and then 3, 5, 6, maybe 8 if X thing happens, etc etc. You could almost get a robot to do it, it is that structured. In fact, addons have been coded to show you what button to hit next, lol.

As for FFXIV grouping, give it time. People first need a reason to group, and once they start grouping, they will learn what (if any) abilities/combinations of abilities/situations require what actions.

I'm sure the first few FFXI groups didn't know what the *bleep* they were supposed to do either (well, other than Auto-Attack lol. Not that anyone has anything other than auto-attack except mages at Lv10 anyways).
#25 Sep 05 2010 at 10:40 PM Rating: Decent
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the developers already stated they are working on a targeting system for the party (i am sure f1-? will become our friends again...i never was a healer so i never paid attention in FFXI) you could always make a macro for targeting (they have that already in the game)

about the groups and all...in less then 2 weeks probably all our characters are going to go poof. thats the biggest reason for non-structure at the moment.

structure will come when we find out how to play these new jobs which can use almost any skill they want (awesomeness). I wanna tank maybe but to tank i want to get the second wind skill for omg situations from pugs etc

give it time. they know the issues. ffxi took a while to get as good as it is. and personally...i am gripping to the idea of non structure. i am sick. SICK of my paladin only subbing warrior!!! now that problem is solved.

i cant wait to be in my first 15 player party of total chaos ;) (now that i htink about it. the stars are 1-5...party is 1-15...that must mean a 5 star is meant for 15 people....dangggggg, once they balance this out better it will be greatness)
#26 Sep 05 2010 at 10:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Give it time. The lack of structure will likely make for painful PUGs, at least early on. And I would expect that even as time goes on, you're still going to find an awful lot of people who don't have (and refuse to get) a clue about how to build and execute a winning strategy.


Oh no don't get me wrong. I know this game has potential. That's why I can't wait :) Right now most people haven't even been in a party and when they get into one they get all frenzied and start whacking everything. Little ignorant but eventually it'll get more strategically structured. I think it's gonna be a very long time though. Game has to weed out the kids with ADD lol
#27 Sep 05 2010 at 10:48 PM Rating: Decent
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I am hoping that the group content requires structure. Because no structure is bassicaly is the best way you can describe a WoW BG pug. A game that allows a WoW BG PuG to beat all of end game and be the number one winna is game that we call super easy mode.
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#28 Sep 05 2010 at 10:55 PM Rating: Good
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There's no structure right now because the players aren't structuring themselves. Just before the servers crashed, I was in a five person party doing some battlecraft leves. It was what I posted about earlier with regards to most XI roaming parties, offset by the fact that you've got so many classes that seem like tanks. Everyone just runs and smacks something. In this case, the people I was with were not terrible...they at least had the good sense to try and smack the same thing. But in the absence of prior communication and established roles, it was just an orgy of ability spam, and we paid for it with a wipe when two extra baddies spawned (the leve originally said we had to kill four, and when we were killing the fourth it ran off and two more spawned, and the kill requirement went up to six).

Give it time. The lack of structure will likely make for painful PUGs, at least early on. And I would expect that even as time goes on, you're still going to find an awful lot of people who don't have (and refuse to get) a clue about how to build and execute a winning strategy.


^This. Simple as that. The tools are there, but the only way there will be structure is when we, the players, build a foundation for it. I too was in a party earlier and more or less it was just testing the waters - we grinded out some Dodo west of Ul'Dah, grinded out some Dodos east of Ul'Dah and then decided to try our luck in Nanawa Mines up north - in short, we failed horribly on occasion and that was because, for the most part, everyone was just smacking away at the mobs. Then we sat back a little and thought we should try and form some structure to our fights, so we picked up a Thaumaturge and we starting landing debuffs on the mobs, while our conjurer played healer, and we had a designated gladiator tank - things went a lot smoother at that point. Structure will come with time - this said, party system still needs some work, i'm crossing my fingers that work is being done as we speak..and please god let there be a seeking party system and a search for players system by launch!!!

EDIT: just wanna add that in no way shape or form do i ever see structure in a 15 man party however...maybe its because i've never been part of end game before but 15 man parties seem like they'd be hard to control and it'd be difficult to have everyone on the same page...I prefer my parties in the mid range, around 5-7 players.

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 12:57am by SolidMack
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#29 Sep 06 2010 at 5:38 AM Rating: Good
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FaithseekerOishii wrote:
I am hoping that the group content requires structure. Because no structure is bassicaly is the best way you can describe a WoW BG pug. A game that allows a WoW BG PuG to beat all of end game and be the number one winna is game that we call super easy mode.


Comparing a PvP PUG (any game) to a PvE PUG (any game) is like comparing Apples to Oranges.

Computer-controlled Mobs tend to behave in certain, absolutely predictable ways, whereas Human-controlled characters do not.
#30 Sep 06 2010 at 5:56 AM Rating: Decent
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I was going to create this thread so someone at SE would realize they have to work on it. At minimum there needs to be a way to let others know you WANT to group up.
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