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FPS = Frames Per Second IssueFollow

#1 Sep 05 2010 at 9:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Alright me and another IRC member 'UnknownSoldier' have tested something out tonight and thought it rather odd. I run an ATI 5770 HD and he runs an ATI 5850. I average around 15 FPS near the Aether, he averages 20-25 FPS in the starter instance. Now get this.

We both tried max settings, everything up; windowed and non-windowed. Ambient Occlusion on/off and Depth of Field on/off. Care to guess what the FPS increase or drop was? No seriously guess? You're probably wrong if you are thinking it increased or decreased.

My FPS remained at 15FPS, 20-23 FPS running around away from the Aether and his remained 20-25 FPS in the starter instance. Odd yeah? Can anyone else test this out and confirm it and add to this thread?

This is kind of messed up in a lot of ways. Yeah it's Beta, and you can clearly see the graphical differences between low and high settings, but to have the same FPS? Hmm.

I am using ATI Catalyst version 10.8 and pretty sure Soldier is too. Discuss.

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 11:03pm by Excenmille
#2 Sep 05 2010 at 9:02 PM Rating: Decent
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It's been discussed. My GTX260 gets like 10 fps in camps. It's due to poor optimization but this is beta, this when it'll start being worked on.
#3 Sep 05 2010 at 9:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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As I said in another thread, this game is far more CPU intensive than anything else. Open task manager and watch your processor usage while playing. I easily see this game dominating anything shy of an i7 930

Although I am curious as to what you're using to measure FPS. I didn't see a FPS monitor in game.
#4 Sep 05 2010 at 9:07 PM Rating: Good
I'm guessing the engine is horrendously unoptimized. My rig can run Starcraft 2 on Ultra on maps that can stress a system, without a drop in fps. I just hope it's fixed by retail.
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#5 Sep 05 2010 at 9:58 PM Rating: Default
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If you force off pixel shader 3.0 in something like riva tuner, your fps skyrockets.

I'm playing on a laptop and it plays like glass.
#6 Sep 05 2010 at 10:02 PM Rating: Good
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LionLoki wrote:
If you force off pixel shader 3.0 in something like riva tuner, your fps skyrockets.

I'm playing on a laptop and it plays like glass.


Can you explain what this means to someone who is not very computer literate?
#7 Sep 05 2010 at 10:04 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
If you force off pixel shader 3.0 in something like riva tuner, your fps skyrockets.

I'm playing on a laptop and it plays like glass.


Hmm Im going to have to try that. How does it affect the way the game looks?
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#8 Sep 05 2010 at 10:52 PM Rating: Decent
Can that be done with ATI cards?

If so, point me in the right direction >.>

EDIT: After trying to figure it out on RivaTuner for myself, I've come to the conclusion that the Radeon 58xx line is too new for the program to use. Unless I'm completely missing something.

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 2:06am by UnknownSoldier
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#9 Sep 05 2010 at 11:06 PM Rating: Good
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Shredmastah wrote:
Hmm Im going to have to try that. How does it affect the way the game looks?


Aha.. That all depends on if the game even runs. (I've never done these SM tricks, so pardon my ignorance) If it's not a buggy mess then it's going to look horrible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_shader#Hardware
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#10 Sep 06 2010 at 12:48 AM Rating: Good
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Excenmille wrote:
We both tried max settings, everything up; windowed and non-windowed. Ambient Occlusion on/off and Depth of Field on/off. Care to guess what the FPS increase or drop was? No seriously guess? You're probably wrong if you are thinking it increased or decreased.

My FPS remained at 15FPS, 20-23 FPS running around away from the Aether and his remained 20-25 FPS in the starter instance. Odd yeah?


Not really - not unusual at all.

Graphics cards have several subsystems, any one of which can be a bottleneck. In a gross oversimplification, there are three main GPU bottlenecks - geometry processing (how fast it can process polygons), shader complexity (how much computation it can perform to determine how to draw each pixel), and fill rate (how fast it can draw pixels). There are other potential bottlenecks, but I'm trying to keep it simple.

So if a particular subsystem is the bottleneck, reducing settings that affect that subsystem will improve frame rate up to the point where that subsystem is no longer the bottleneck (because pretty much by definition, some part HAS to be the bottleneck). And if a subsystem is not the bottleneck, increasing settings that affect that subsystem will have no effect on frame rate up to the point where that subsystem becomes the bottleneck.

The bulk of the graphics options in FF14 affect shader complexity (even depth of field now - they're using a different DoF technique than they were using in older versions), so if shader complexity is not the bottleneck on your GPU (or if the shaders are coded in such a way that there's not much performance change between having a feature on and having it off), increasing those settings won't affect your frame rate.

Things like window size and buffer size affect fill rate, so again, if your GPU isn't bottlenecked by frame rate, increasing those settings won't reduce your frame rate, and conversely, reducing them won't increase your frame rate.

In particular, due to the way the game's options are set up, if your frame rate is limited by the amount of polygons the game throws at your GPU, there's very little you can do to increase performance.
#11 Sep 06 2010 at 12:50 AM Rating: Good
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UnknownSoldier wrote:
EDIT: After trying to figure it out on RivaTuner for myself, I've come to the conclusion that the Radeon 58xx line is too new for the program to use. Unless I'm completely missing something.


RivaTuner on works on Nvidia GPUs (hence the name - the Riva was an early Nvidia graphics chip), so it won't work on any Radeon, regardless of age.

EDIT: Forgot to mention -

For Radeons, you want ATI Tray Tool - though I've not used it in some time, so I don't remember if it can disable shader model 3.0, and I'm too lazy to check.

Edited, Sep 5th 2010 11:53pm by BastokFL
#12 Sep 06 2010 at 6:44 AM Rating: Good
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In my case I figured out the bottleneck has nothing to do with the video card. I upgraded my 9600gt for a 460gtx to find absolutely no increase in frame rate. I feel like it stuttered a bit less in town but otherwise, same 25 outside, 1-15 inside. The benchmark even lost 100 points (1600 down to 1500).

I'll be returning that card of course. I know my processor (Athlon 5600+) is far from top of the line, but it at least meets the minimum. Oh well.
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#13 Sep 06 2010 at 7:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Imo and from other beta experiences this game just like any other in this form: an unfinished product. Though the code from this game is almost a carbon of what will be seen on release, but it is not the finished optimized code. It's filled with unoptimized code left and right and the same goes for it's usage on the CPU and GPU. Notice how when you boot up the launcher it's usage on one core of your system is about 95%? That's what beta's are all about, working out the kinks and applying the data from our every log in to the final code. **** I remember when CO came out and their were people discussing the exact same thing, but after a good month or so of updates and constant player feedback the game can be played with a 2.5 dual core and a 260 GTX/4850 buttery smooth. If I could offer any kind of advise it would be to wait till release before going crazy with the upgrades, when they have gotten all the lag taking care that way it will be easier to rule whether or not it's truly is the lag or time to turn your PC into and intergalactic battle ship.
#14 Sep 06 2010 at 7:30 AM Rating: Good
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And that's yet another person with the "Core being eaten by NOTHING" bug, which increases my total CPU usage to 100% and decreases my FPS to about 6-7.

I don't think SE quite understands that not only are we beta testing their game, we're beta testing them. To wit, if it doesn't work for us on the last open beta, it probably won't work for us on release- so why buy it?
#15 Sep 06 2010 at 10:10 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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LionLoki wrote:
If you force off pixel shader 3.0 in something like riva tuner, your fps skyrockets.

I'm playing on a laptop and it plays like glass.
What version are you using then? Anything else crashes the game instantly.
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#16 Sep 06 2010 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
Not quite sure how pixel shader works, but my video card runs/support 5.0, not 3.0
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