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Do you think XIV is playable by casual players?Follow

#1 Sep 06 2010 at 6:09 AM Rating: Good
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I’ve been tooling around w/ the Beta all weekend and I have to stop at this point because I’m getting highly frustrated. I am still buying the CE ( 2 copies in fact, because my wife plays as well, and wants to play whatever MMO I’m playing). However, I’m not sure how long I’ll stick with it, given my time allotment for gaming each week and the sheer volume of time required to get anything done.

Here’s an example:

I started as a Marauder - I’ve always had a soft spot for double handed weapons. I got through treasures of the main, and then started grinding a bit to see how it felt. I like the combat engine, a lot. I always felt WoW was too fast and FFXI was too slow – it’s almost perfectly in the middle of the two, exactly where I wanted it. That was Saturday morning when I hit this point, then whoops, my gear needs to be repaired…

Since Saturday morning I’ve been trying to figure out the crafting, reading every help I could find and really it came down to trial and error when figuring it out. I needed to repair my axe, I needed 2 Bronze Nugget, and 4 fire shards. So to get ingots, I had to synth copper and tin. Where do I get Copper/ Tin? From mining… So I go grab a pickaxe and head for the mountains, and by the time I get enough together, my pickaxe is now degraded to where it’s about to break as well, and I’ve spend 3 hours just trying to repair my OTHER weapon.

Ok, so now I go back into town, and I get all ready to repair my axe so I can go back to killing mobs. I spent 2 hours searching the forums for why in the **** I can’t add shards to the recipies – I mean the recipes I found online for Bronze Nugget and Fire shards. I get frustrated and accidentally try to synth w/o the shards to find out they’re automatically added to the recipe, you don’t have to add them. Only now I find out the recipe was wrong, it’s not fire SHARDS, it’s fire CRYSTALS.

Now it’s Sunday, and I have spent a whole day yelling and screaming because all I want to do is repair my weapon so I can spend another hour getting to rank 10 and see some of the higher level content. I spend about 2 hours trying to find where I try to find someone who sells the alchemist weapon so I can turn my shards into crystals. I finally figure it out and sit down to make some crystals, and I need to make Fine Sand, and need to be a goldsmith. When I see this, I just scream and then log off. I go back and play some more Dragon Age…


All of this leads me to the following questions:

1) Am I playing the game in the way it was intended?
2) If so, under what pretense does SE think that this game is intented for causal players?
3) If not, what am I doing wrong, and how is it going to be presented so that a casual player will figure out the nuances w/o getting frustrated and quitting?

I’m not claiming I’m the smartest guy in the room, but I’ve played quite a few mmos. It feels like all the time I waited for parties in XI was replaced by tedius work in town in XIV. That doesn’t make it any more accessible to me as a casual gamer, and no more fun either. I truly hate WoW, it isnt’ fun like a game should be. It’s more fun like a drug addiction. You’re not really having fun while you’re running hot, you just miss it when you’re away, and every now and again you have to remind yourself why you stopped playing. I want XIV to be a fun game, but I have a feeling that I’m going to have to wait 6 months for it to be approachable for someone w/ less than 30 hours a week to play.

Am I off my rocker, or is this the same sentiment shared by others?



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#2 Sep 06 2010 at 6:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Simply put, it's Beta...

No, really... in release you will have a lot of players that WILL skill up crafts as soon as possible (they don't now because the Gil gained will be lost) and then you should have a lot of people available to repair your weapon/armour.

Whether people will charge a reasonable ammount is another question but the more people there are the lower the price should get with the offer/demand.
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#3 Sep 06 2010 at 6:29 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:

Since Saturday morning I’ve been trying to figure out the crafting, reading every help I could find and really it came down to trial and error when figuring it out. I needed to repair my axe, I needed 2 Bronze Nugget, and 4 fire shards. So to get ingots, I had to synth copper and tin. Where do I get Copper/ Tin? From mining… So I go grab a pickaxe and head for the mountains, and by the time I get enough together, my pickaxe is now degraded to where it’s about to break as well, and I’ve spend 3 hours just trying to repair my OTHER weapon.


Well technically the game isn't built so you do everything on your own, its built around the notion that working with others will keep you moving up - what you did is wrong technically - i mean if you have the time to do this then by all means but most people will ask a crafter to fix their weapon for them rather than do it themselves and they will pay for the sercive...and i hate to break it to you but if you were using a level 1 weapon it would've been wiser to throw out your damaged goods and buy it again for what? 500 gil??
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#4 Sep 06 2010 at 6:34 AM Rating: Good
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I don't buy that entirely.

From an economics perspective, if 3 hours of time is required to gather the materials to do one repair, that would make the repair costs astronomically high in comparison to the level of gear. The gil cost would be 10K-ish for level 1 weapons / armor. It wasn't JUST my weapon; it was my armor too, which you can’t buy.

If you're not telling me I'm way off in my play style that means that I'll never be able to invest the time required to play the game...
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#5 Sep 06 2010 at 6:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Putting all the "it's beta" comments aside, I have to go with Hugus on this. After the game releases, it's going to take time, but there will undoubtedly be people who are very dedicated to crafting, fishing, etc. and over time a market of sorts will eventually manifest itself making it easier to either find someone willing to repair your weapons, or to find a merchant selling the materials you may need to do repairs yourself (hopefully at reasonable prices). For now, I'd say its simply a matter of waiting out the frustration and giving the game and community time to grow after release.

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 8:36am by ThePacster
#6 Sep 06 2010 at 6:38 AM Rating: Good
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Simply put, it's Beta...


Seriously, this is no longer an excuse. It is 9/6, and the CE launches 9/22. At this point, the gameplay is more or less what you'll get. The game is not going to COMPLETELY TRANSFORM into something intuitive and easy to use in the next 16 days.

O/P: The intention of the developers was not to force you to level every craft to repair one weapon, but to push you in the direction of finding people who can help you. It's supposed to be a teamwork kinda thing.

Of course, you could've just checked online as to where they sold the marauder weapon in your starting area, pitched yours and bought a new one. . . .
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#7 Sep 06 2010 at 6:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Seriously, this is no longer an excuse. It is 9/6, and the CE launches 9/22. At this point, the gameplay is more or less what you'll get. The game is not going to COMPLETELY TRANSFORM into something intuitive and easy to use in the next 16 days.



Agreed. I'm a developer myself, working on a team of about 15. I know how much work we get done in a week, and we're really good at what we do. There's not much that's going to change between now and the 22nd.


Again, back to my original question, is the game accessible to casual players? I don't feel as though it is because of the vast amount of time required to do anything. Say I decided to buy the weapon over again. Now I'm running around naked because my starting armor fell off my body. What happens when I upgrade, well, anything? Now I've got to spend hours traversing the market wards for supplies, or all of my money spent repairing my low level gear. That's not a casual game, that's a job.


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#8 Sep 06 2010 at 6:49 AM Rating: Default
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1) Casual does not mean you get to level everything super fast. Speeding through content like it's nothing. Casual means doing stuff in your own time, not being obligated to stay online for hours for some kind of event.

2) Seems to me that a lot of pain could have been avoided if you tried the tutorial leves on crafting/gathering.
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#9 Sep 06 2010 at 6:54 AM Rating: Good
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From an economics perspective, if 3 hours of time is required to gather the materials to do one repair, that would make the repair costs astronomically high in comparison to the level of gear. The gil cost would be 10K-ish for level 1 weapons / armor. It wasn't JUST my weapon; it was my armor too, which you can’t buy.


This isn't how it works. I'll use the restaurant analogy again: I have a restaurant, I sell burgers...I don't make the patties myself do I? no I buy them from a wholesale - the wholesale doesn't make the patties either, they buy them from a butcher, where the butcher buys the cow from the farmer...its a cycle.

In this case the crafter will fix your weapon, he will or you will purchase items necessary for fix and he'll fix it for you...of course this wont be the case with everyone but its just a big circle, its not as if one person does everything.

Quote:

Agreed. I'm a developer myself, working on a team of about 15.


almost as large as SE. :P

Quote:
is the game accessible to casual players?


Yes it is, but this depends entirely on who you ask. I will say though that armor depletes way too fast, too often - I hope they change this before release - but you wont know entirely how player to player interaction plays out before the game has had a month or two under its belt...the process you described in the OP could be (and will be) more straight forward than you seem to think.

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 9:00am by SolidMack
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#10 Sep 06 2010 at 7:00 AM Rating: Decent
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almost as large as SE. :P


They have a code base about 100 times larger, and a team 100 times larger. That makes them much more inefficient and slower moving. I've run teams of 50 people; they get less work done then teams of 20.

If you want to be facetious, then obviously this ins't the right place for me to get questions answered. I always through this was a mature group of people. I guess I was wrong.

Thanks for nothing.
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#11 Sep 06 2010 at 7:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Honestly I don't even think it'll take the time requirements to drive people away. They'll try to navigate the menus for an hour and then give up.
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#12 Sep 06 2010 at 7:04 AM Rating: Decent
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jcavaliere wrote:
Quote:
almost as large as SE. :P


They have a code base about 100 times larger, and a team 100 times larger. That makes them much more inefficient and slower moving. I've run teams of 50 people; they get less work done then teams of 20.

If you want to be facetious, then obviously this ins't the right place for me to get questions answered. I always through this was a mature group of people. I guess I was wrong.

Thanks for nothing.


Maybe you're too old or something but ":P" indicated i was joking around with you and I don't see where I was immature, maybe I didn't give you the answer you wanted? ok...don't play the game, its not casual friendly, you happy? go take a nap and clear your brain a little.
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#13 Sep 06 2010 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
jcavaliere wrote:
I don't buy that entirely.

From an economics perspective, if 3 hours of time is required to gather the materials to do one repair, that would make the repair costs astronomically high in comparison to the level of gear. The gil cost would be 10K-ish for level 1 weapons / armor. It wasn't JUST my weapon; it was my armor too, which you can’t buy.

If you're not telling me I'm way off in my play style that means that I'll never be able to invest the time required to play the game...


People are not going to be gathering with making your repair in mind. They will be gathering because they are skilling up miner and getting random crap to npc/craft with. Once the economy starts to take hold getting your axe repaired is not going to be such a biggie... but darn just buy a new one if you are using "weathered" crap.

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#14 Sep 06 2010 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
jcavaliere wrote:

Again, back to my original question, is the game accessible to casual players? I don't feel as though it is because of the vast amount of time required to do anything. Say I decided to buy the weapon over again. Now I'm running around naked because my starting armor fell off my body. What happens when I upgrade, well, anything? Now I've got to spend hours traversing the market wards for supplies, or all of my money spent repairing my low level gear. That's not a casual game, that's a job.


you get new armor from guildleves and/or you can buy it - it really isn't that expensive. Also things work when they are damaged - just not as well.

I've repaired like 1 thing. I just been replacing and npcing old armor and weapons. It isn't a big deal. You probably ought to learn to craft too, by the way. This game is designed to be played more diagonally than vertically. Yes, the average person who tries to mindlessly zerg one class to endgame will be frustrated by this game. However people who like doing lots of different things will love it.

Also I can log in on my lunch break and get something accomplished. I have to say that is pretty casual friendly, right there.
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#15 Sep 06 2010 at 7:31 AM Rating: Decent
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while i already sort of knew how it worked, it took me about 30 seconds to repair my weapon: i bought the nugget because i knew trying to craft it was impossible with the fire crystal as a requirement.

i guess what i mean is that once people know how the game work, it's not going to take 4 hours to repair one weapon, it's going to take a couple minutes.

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 9:31am by hints
#16 Sep 06 2010 at 8:17 AM Rating: Good
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I remember talking about it a lot a couple months ago and people were worried they were making it too casual and easy. Now we see in the beta that was way off. I think it can be a lot more casual-friendly and easier than your description though. Sounds like you're wanting to do everything by yourself, which would be sweet, but would definitely take a long time. Especially on a limited schedule.

I know my ideas of getting everything done have been knocked back down to reality with this beta. Seems to be ideal to have one major focus and put the rest on the side. Or maybe 2 main specialties, but trying to gather/farm your mats to craft/repair your own gear so you can cap out your fighting class all while finishing the storyline and other quests looks like a giant mountain to climb. You can still do those other things, but at a slower rate of progress. While you specialize in what you want, others will be there specializing in their areas and you can pay for those services or make deals. Surrounding yourself with a solid LS could go a long way there. Maybe get some freebies and some set deals going. The "it's just beta" line does work here, because people aren't being as helpful & friendly as they could be. Many aren't worried about taking it too serious knowing the gil & progress is wiped soon anyway. And a whole lot of people don't know how to do these things to begin with. I don't think Hugus meant that things would be magically fixed by the 22nd, but talking about how people are playing in the beta. Nothing wrong with using "it's just beta" in that context...

Anyway, I think it can be casual-friendly if you find a smaller focus and not try to do it all. Use the beta to figure out what you mostly want to do and go from there.

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 10:18am by TwistedOwl
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#17 Sep 06 2010 at 8:23 AM Rating: Good
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People that disagreed with my statment "It's Beta" don't seem to have understood the statment or didn't read the following statment.

I did not made the statment as because it being Beta SE will resolve a bug, improve mechanics or implement a new system.

The statment was made that because it is Beta the economy present is nowhere close to a clear representation of what the economy will be at release.

As such, I still stand by my first reply.
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#18 Sep 06 2010 at 9:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't understand why the OP was even trying to repair the weapon in the first place. The cost to purchase a new weapon is under 1k Gil and that can be farmed in under an hour. I could understand trying to repair higher cost or rare weapons, but not a level 1 starter weapon that is available in any city.
#19 Sep 06 2010 at 11:58 AM Rating: Good
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I understand everything everyone has said. Here's my question with it.

Most of the items you start off with aren't even tradable. So you can't simply hand them over to a crafter to fix. I mean do you give your gear to the crafter for them to fix? Who is to say they won't run off with a 200k gil helmet? It worries me to no end.

It seems to me you have to be a crafter in this game to really make any sort of money. The fighters are constantly needing to repair their gear and that's a big market. All the money they make on the field is just going to go to the crafter. I really don't see how it's going to work. I mean XIV made it to where we teleport ourselves now so no more white mages whoring them selfs out for tele's, but now it seems we'll just have people shouting "if you want a chainmail repaired only 10k!" Seems completely broken to me. I guess I'll just start my own craft and see where it goes from there. Silly that I have to level something I hate to really keep money.

(Also someone in my LS said there is a NPC that will repair your gear for you, but only to about 50% though or something. Not sure where she is yet. I'll post a thread or put it in here if I find them)

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 1:01pm by Slapaho
#20 Sep 06 2010 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
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Repairing a broken level 1 weapon at the NPC from 0% to 50% costs like 100gil, if I remember correctly. How much do you think could a player charge for 100% repairs?

Right now it's way too much effort to repair stuff through crafting. First you have to figure out which item needs repair by checking everything you are wearing. Then you have to get the right resources to do the repairs, which can be different for every item. Then you have to figure out which skill is needed to repair that specific item (not mentioned in the item description). Then you need to unequip it and either repair it yourself or have someone else do it.

Compare this to "click on NPC -> Repair all -> Yes Yes Yes -> 300gil payed". Only 50% but way, way way less of a hassle.

I see tons of people crafting, all over the place. I see noone offering repairs. Noone.

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 2:11pm by Thintalle
#21 Sep 06 2010 at 12:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Some people don't seem to understand what a casual gamer is. The casual gamer is a lot of things, not just someone who can't play frequently, or likes to play EZmode, or doesn't mega grind 1 class and wants to take his/her time through the experience.

The one thing the casual gamer is not however, is willing to "wait out" poorly designed systems when there are plenty of games out there that don't require them to do so. They won't wait for the UI to "get better", they won't wait for the possibility that changing abilities won't take nearly 10 minutes once you've got the sp to fill up your action bar, and they certainly won't wait for the AH that may or may not end up getting implemented. I could fill this page with things in this game that are a HUGE casual player turn-off. Does it affect me? No. Will I play regardless of the problems? Honestly, I'm not sure. Do I believe that SE has achieved their goal of making XIV more accessible to the casual player? ABSOLUTELY not. As it stands now, the only thing this game is going to do is pull in old XI players or leech players that are currently playing XI - though most of those that I know will be sticking with XI for now.

Everyone seems to miss the point of these "Is this ok for casuals" posts... They're not saying that it does or doesn't fit to their personal vision, but to the vision that SE said they were interested in, which was pulling in the casual gamer. The OP asked a simple question, and nearly everyone jumped down his throat with "you're doing it wrong" or "jeez, you're stupid, just go buy a new weapon instead of trying to repair your existing one."

So jcavaliere, in response to your question. No, I don't think XIV is playable in its current state by strictly casual players. At least not without a LOT of frustration, confusion, and eventual /gamequit.
#22 Sep 06 2010 at 12:17 PM Rating: Decent
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The alternatives would have been to get someone to repair your weapon for you or buy a new weapon. If your only interested in leveling one job there is no need for you to try others.
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#23 Sep 06 2010 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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does getting other people to repair your equipment mean actually having to trade it first to someone you trust and then hoping they trade it back? or is there a safe method?
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#24 Sep 06 2010 at 12:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
does getting other people to repair your equipment mean actually having to trade it first to someone you trust and then hoping they trade it back? or is there a safe method?


That was the question I asked. No one seems to know yet I guess.
#25 Sep 06 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Slapaho wrote:
Quote:
does getting other people to repair your equipment mean actually having to trade it first to someone you trust and then hoping they trade it back? or is there a safe method?


That was the question I asked. No one seems to know yet I guess.


I don't know the answer unfortunately, as my frustration hit its peak long before I broke any gear. Did a bit of searching, and couldn't find out for sure. If I don't want to hang myself by the time I get home from work today (12 hr shift on labor day >.< ) I'll log in and check for you.
#26 Sep 06 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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seneleron wrote:


Of course, you could've just checked online as to where they sold the marauder weapon in your starting area, pitched yours and bought a new one. . . .


Except, he said his armor was damaged.
#27 Sep 06 2010 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thintalle wrote:

Right now it's way too much effort to repair stuff through crafting. First you have to figure out which item needs repair by checking everything you are wearing. Then you have to get the right resources to do the repairs, which can be different for every item. Then you have to figure out which skill is needed to repair that specific item (not mentioned in the item description). Then you need to unequip it and either repair it yourself or have someone else do it.

Compare this to "click on NPC -> Repair all -> Yes Yes Yes -> 300gil payed". Only 50% but way, way way less of a hassle.

I see tons of people crafting, all over the place. I see noone offering repairs. Noone.


This is another example of a blatantly stupid idea on the part of SE. I thought that SE was showing real progressive thinking with adding this degradation system, but as usual, they take a good idea and **** it beyond all recognition. I don't see where they think that people are going to get their equipment repaired if the NPCs don't do it, because there will realistically only be a market for a certain amount of people to set up shop to do it, and they will have to specialize in certain kinds, and they will have to be online, and they will have to be accessible i.e. in a town at the moment, and and and and and and and

It's just stupid. Really, really stupid. I understand that in a lot of ways crafters got the shaft in XI, but that was because of the ****** system that allowed 7 generations of level 59 melees to cycle a hauby through the AH eternally. Instead of making us go to a crafter for repairs, more crafted equipment should have been BoE so that crafters could continue making those pieces of equipment instead of watching their work change hands for a decade.

All that this is going to end up with is a bunch of people walking around in broken gear because they can't find someone to repair it, or the people are simple charging too much.
#28 Sep 06 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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Do you realize how much armor you get from guildleve's right now? Besides, you will be able to buy new stuff when the game goes live. Each phase of the beta test had different things for sale, such as weapons, shields, accessories...
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#29 Sep 06 2010 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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Hugus wrote:
People that disagreed with my statment "It's Beta" don't seem to have understood the statment or didn't read the following statment.

I did not made the statment as because it being Beta SE will resolve a bug, improve mechanics or implement a new system.

The statment was made that because it is Beta the economy present is nowhere close to a clear representation of what the economy will be at release.

As such, I still stand by my first reply.


I gotta agree with this. The economy is going to be extremely rough in the beta because everyone is playing with the knowledge that they will lose all their work in about two weeks, and therefore, investing a lot of time into progressing something that costs time and money is silly.

Many people are just taking this time to try different things; level crafts maybe 1-2 levels, level a DoW or DoM class to about 3-5, do a few guildleves; not many people are really taking progression seriously yet.

You'll have to wait till the 22nd before that starts happening.

As for the "casual" aspect: If you're a casual player, you will not be able to do everything yourself. Someone with hours per day to invest might be able to make and repair their own gear in addition to gathering materials and fighting, but if you're on a limited schedule, you're going to have to purchase some of those services from other players. You're going to have to either buy the materials or buy the repairs or something.

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 3:15pm by Mikhalia
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#30 Sep 06 2010 at 1:30 PM Rating: Default
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Casual players can play any MMO, unless they are in a race with the rest of the server, there is nothing stopping a casual player from playing this game at their own pace.
#31 Sep 06 2010 at 1:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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deserttfoxx wrote:

Casual players can play any MMO, unless they are in a race with the rest of the server, there is nothing stopping a casual player from playing this game at their own pace.


Nothing, except SE's artificial limitations which I think have been brought up a number of times in other threads. The OP has a valid concern - if we casuals (and I consider myself casual) can't find someone to repair our gear or figure out how to do it ourselves, then we aren't playing at our own pace - we're struggling to do basic things for no reason other than the developers thought it should be a difficult task. That will turn a lot of people off, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with with being in a race with the rest of the server.

Frankly, casual players could give a @#%^ about the rest of the server. However, it seems that SE is going to force us to, since something as simple as taking a hammer to a blade is a major process instead of just... Taking a hammer to a blade. I don't understand it, and no one seems to have an explanation.



Edited, Sep 6th 2010 3:39pm by Torrence
#32 Sep 06 2010 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
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The game is perfectly suitable for people who don't have as much time as others.

First off, Guildleves will always be there for quick gil and rewards and EXP. A player who doesn't play as often will also have more abundance of Anima to travel quickly.

But this is mostly about the economic side of things, i suppose. As a crafter, you'll be able to partake in Local Guildleves which gives you the materials you need automatically, so you'll be able to get better at crafting without actually having to rummage around for materials. but as for finding all of those materials to repair, its the issue right now that the community and the economy hasn't started rolling. Its helpful if you know some people in the game rather than just sifting through forums, they are a better resource.

There are a couple of systems that i know people have not bothered to try out, and they all have to deal with the bazaar. Other people can repair your equipment from your, or your retainer's bazaar. go to the item's menu, and then select " Seek Repair" or whatever, and then it'll ask you to name a reward. You could offer up either items or gil as a reward for repair. A crafter just needs to walk by, check your bazaar, chose to repair the piece of armor, go through the repairing process, and then they'll automatically be rewarded whatever you put up. There is no trading needed.

The other bazaar function is called SEEK. It's an interesting, but iffy system. Currently, if you have an item that you want more of, you can put it up for Seek item. Say if i wanted fire crystals, i would select the seek option and then select how many i want, and then put up either an item or gil as a reward. a person browsing your bazaar can come and sell you the items without any communication or trading. The problem is, you currently have to have the item you are seeking in your inventory.

When the Economy gets established, this means that a trip to the market wards can be a way to make some quick cash instead of just a place to spend all of your gil.
#33 Sep 06 2010 at 3:03 PM Rating: Decent
Torrence wrote:
deserttfoxx wrote:

Casual players can play any MMO, unless they are in a race with the rest of the server, there is nothing stopping a casual player from playing this game at their own pace.


Nothing, except SE's artificial limitations which I think have been brought up a number of times in other threads. The OP has a valid concern - if we casuals (and I consider myself casual) can't find someone to repair our gear or figure out how to do it ourselves, then we aren't playing at our own pace - we're struggling to do basic things for no reason other than the developers thought it should be a difficult task. That will turn a lot of people off, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with with being in a race with the rest of the server.

Frankly, casual players could give a @#%^ about the rest of the server. However, it seems that SE is going to force us to, since something as simple as taking a hammer to a blade is a major process instead of just... Taking a hammer to a blade. I don't understand it, and no one seems to have an explanation.


Multi-layered menus aside, repairing entry level gear is easy. You can buy the mats from a vendor. You don't need to go mine copper and tin and farm a fire crystal and make the nugget to repair starter metal weapons. (Tip: you would have an extremely difficult time making the nugget anyways...it's not an entry level synth).

I'm still undecided as to whether or not I'm going to buy the game but if I do, my priorities are going to be as follows:

1) Hire my retainer.
2) Put all of my initial gil into crafting tools.
3) Set up macros to switch everything around so that I can switch classes in the field without having to navigate all the trash menus to swap gear and reset abilities.
4) Kill everything, harvest everything, and level crafting professions relentlessly.
5) Take my time and enjoy.
6) ???
7) Profit.

That right there is your casual manifesto in a nutshell. There's a learning curve to this game and if you can get past the crappy menu system, it's not at all bad. You just have to take the time to get to know what you're doing.
#34 Sep 06 2010 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
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As a casual gamer, I can understand what the OP's concerns are. I ran into a bit of this dilemma while in Beta 2 phase. But after a bit I was able to find ways around it. Gil is actually quite easy to come by in this game and the armor repair is not too expensive. Just following the main quest will net you a pretty 3-4k gil alone on the first part. The guildleves will also add to more gil at higher levels.

I was testing out the notion that SE said a player would be able to just take up a craft and be ok, without seeing battle. So, I took up cooking and I could only go up to Physical Level 4, Cooking Rank 4. This is because I did not have the necessary things to be able to craft up anything. Shards from the guild required Guild Marks, and all my leves were giving me the wrong types of crystals. I had two options, either buy crystals from extortionists on the marketplace, or I had to get them from gathering. I took up fishing, and it was able to solve my problem. This game is all interconnected, you will need one job in order to support another job, and vice versa.

Even then, fishing was only able to take me up to a certain point before I had to start killing mobs for stuff so, again it's another example of one job needed in order to support other jobs.

It's got it's hangups still, but I think I'm figuring it out. But back to your question of if it is playable by casual gamers I would say yes. But that comes with conditions because it will take time to figure out how some of these things work out and connect to each other. However, those tasks are usually very casual and usually don't require too much action to attain them, so far.

By this I mean you won't need to camp an NM with 6 people for 3 days straight to get a drop to pop another NM and then hopefully get your stuff. It's achievable by yourself but it'll take some time that's all. Either that or you can pander to those money grubbing extortionists who want to charge an arm and a leg for some beginner clothes in the beta! ***** YOU EXTORTIONISTS!!! lol
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#35 Sep 06 2010 at 3:34 PM Rating: Default
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Prices will fall once the game is released - its a supply and demand thing. People will realise that they are unable to sell items for such insane prices due to others being more sensible and the market will head towards equilibrium.

Hallie BSC MA (Economics).
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#36 Sep 06 2010 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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Economics: a marauder goes and kills a bunch of marmots, gets lots of nuts and pelts and meats. The marauder sells these things through the retainer system (or AH if they put that in, but let's assume that the retainer system works). While killing marmots, the marauder's axe gets damaged and needs repairs. He goes to a blacksmith (I think it's the blacksmiths who would repair axes) for repairs. The blacksmith buys the materials from a friend who happens to be a miner. The blacksmith repairs the marauder's axe, charging him for the materials and a fee for the service.

The marauder gets paid for gathering materials from animals.
The blacksmith gets paid for doing a repair.
The miner gets paid for gathering materials from the land.
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#37 Sep 06 2010 at 4:32 PM Rating: Decent
seneleron wrote:
Quote:
Simply put, it's Beta...


Seriously, this is no longer an excuse. It is 9/6, and the CE launches 9/22. At this point, the gameplay is more or less what you'll get. The game is not going to COMPLETELY TRANSFORM into something intuitive and easy to use in the next 16 days.

O/P: The intention of the developers was not to force you to level every craft to repair one weapon, but to push you in the direction of finding people who can help you. It's supposed to be a teamwork kinda thing.

Of course, you could've just checked online as to where they sold the marauder weapon in your starting area, pitched yours and bought a new one. . . .


How many fingers am I holding up? I'm thinking of a number between one and infinity, what is it?

Seriously, I want to see evidence of your psychic powers, because you seem so sure of things with no supporting information. Between betas there was little feedback and all of a sudden they were like 'oh we were using info from the previous beta to design this whole new battle system, hope you like it'.

The fact is, you have no idea what they're doing, so stop speaking witch such declaration. It's possible they'll leave it as is, and it's possible they won't, but stop dismissing the people who say we should reserve judgment on the final product until it's released, because that's exactly what we should do.
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#38 Sep 06 2010 at 5:08 PM Rating: Good
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Casual play is just fine in this game. I'm a casual player and I was frustrated at first, but now I'm doing much better and starting to understand things. I can hardly wait for the actual game to come out so I can have a character to keep.

One of the great things about playing casually is taking your time to go through the game instead of just rushing to get to a higher level. Just because it took you, what - three days? - to accomplish something doesn't mean the game isn't worth playing. Heck, that's only 3 days! You'll have plenty of time to learn the works and that is what makes the game worth its costs - the fact that you have plenty to doand plenty of time to do it in. Get your money's worth.

Besides, you can always just make your wife play a gatherer and crafter,so she can fix all your stuff for you! =D (j/k)

Don't let it fret you too much. It really is a neat game and I think it is worth the time it takes to learn it. Don't give it up.
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#39 Sep 06 2010 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
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Slapaho wrote:
Quote:
does getting other people to repair your equipment mean actually having to trade it first to someone you trust and then hoping they trade it back? or is there a safe method?


That was the question I asked. No one seems to know yet I guess.


Actually you can set it up in your bazaar as seeking repairs, I just saw 1 and happened to be on weaver so I tried to fix it but got the message "You decide to wait until you are more skilled to attempt this synthesis." So there's no fear of losing a good item, so then I guess in retail it would be a matter of understanding how expensive the items are to have it fixed and then add some more for "labor" perhaps. If you want your high level gear repaired that requires 10k worth of materials, offering 100g for the repair will get ignored. You can also do this on your retainer if it's not something that's needed immediately. Otherwise the quick NPC repair will do the trick.

As for making money, I've got nearly 200k right now without trying hard to make money, and I wasted 45k on a shield from an NPC, bought some other gear, and started dumping gil into crafting recently.



Edited, Sep 6th 2010 7:30pm by TwistedOwl
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#40 Sep 06 2010 at 6:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Actually you can set it up in your bazaar as seeking repairs, I just saw 1 and happened to be on weaver so I tried to fix it but got the message "You decide to wait until you are more skilled to attempt this synthesis." So there's no fear of losing a good item, so then I guess in retail it would be a matter of understanding how expensive the items are to have it fixed and then add some more for "labor" perhaps. If you want your high level gear repaired that requires 10k worth of materials, offering 100g for the repair will get ignored. You can also do this on your retainer if it's not something that's needed immediately. Otherwise the quick NPC repair will do the trick.

As for making money, I've got nearly 200k right now without trying hard to make money, and I wasted 45k on a shield from an NPC, bought some other gear, and started dumping gil into crafting recently.


Few points to seeking repair:
1. Equipment has to be unequipped
2. Go to Inventory > select item > seek repair :: Set reward
3. Equipment will go into bazzar with description "Damaged"
4. Equipment will remain with you.
5. You will not lose the item if the crafter fails
6. The Crafter have to provide his own repair mat.
7. The crafter gain skill points for repairing stuff
8. Unlike crafting, repairing has no mini-game (Its fast)
9. Its not worth repairing starter equipment.
10. When you can't find anyone to repair it for u, there is an NPC in every town that repairs up to 50% dur for ur equip

Currently in beta.. alot of ppl are throwing gils around so.. its easy to get rich

Edited, Sep 7th 2010 12:49am by Sleepymagi
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#41 Sep 06 2010 at 8:59 PM Rating: Decent
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I think that the game is a lot more friendly to casual gamers than most people are suggesting, and it`s mainly because of the guildleve system.

The hard core player has to resort to grinding, because he`ll finish his guildleves in a couple of hours. This also increases the rate at which his equipment degrades.

However the casual player who only plays a couple of hours a day will spend about half their time doing guildleves, and though their progression will still be slower, they will constantly be getting a lot of gil from the leves, new equipment, and skill points from the guardian aspect.

Casual players will have to specialize even more than hard core players to accomplish anything, but I really don`t see them getting slowed down a lot, especially when we have 2-3 times as many leves to choose from as SE is promising in retail.

I think the casual player will be able to enjoy FFXIV quite a bit, especially since the game is also much, much more solo friendly now.
#42 Sep 06 2010 at 9:19 PM Rating: Default
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As it stands right now, no.

There's too much padding across the board, from the retainer system that has been beaten to death yet remains relevant(see one of the other dozen posts), to the ridiculous placement of the mobs, and lack of information(some of it will be remedied, and no, were not asking to have our hands held like WOW).

There's probably more, and some of what I mentioned might change before release and over time, but, once again, as it stands right now, no.
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#43 Sep 06 2010 at 9:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
The one thing the casual gamer is not however, is willing to "wait out" poorly designed systems when there are plenty of games out there that don't require them to do so. They won't wait for the UI to "get better", they won't wait for the possibility that changing abilities won't take nearly 10 minutes once you've got the sp to fill up your action bar, and they certainly won't wait for the AH that may or may not end up getting implemented.


So basically, casual gamers are not meant to play games at release considering how barren a lot of games are at release, FFXI certainly not being an exception to this rule.

http://www.jpbutton.com/?p=157

Example:

05/16/2002
On the first day of service, there were so many access requests that the servers were down, and disconnects were common. This was completely fixed by May 19. Due to the loss of service, free play was extended past the end of May until the end of June.

06/11/2002 (nearly a month after release)
First Large-Scale Version Update

* Auction House opened.
* Screenshot function added.
* Notorious Monsters implemented.
* The duration of Bind was shortened.
* The guard stationed in North Gustaberg was moved to its current location.
* HQ results for crafting made their appearance.
* The minimum level required to obtain a sub job quest was set to 18.
* DEX bonus added to Sneak Attack. Effect of Treasure Hunter strengthened.

I could go on and on about how a lot of MMO's are lacking at release and aren't god send packages oozing with perfection when compared to other games that have been released for several years, but is that really fair? I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I don't think this is about the game being "beta", I think it's about the game being new. The game needs time for people to settle in without the assumption that their characters are going to be wiped in 10 days so things can get established, so that you don't have to do "everything" by yourself. If there are truly problems with some of the features of this game (and there obviously are), it's going to take time for adjustments to take place. Rome wasn't built in a day, so if you can't "wait" then I don't know what else to tell you. I think this game is playable for casual players, perhaps just not casual players who are expecting release day to be as well established as a game running for the past 10 years.
#44 Sep 06 2010 at 10:52 PM Rating: Decent
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One other thing I will point out. Damaged items aren't implemented yet. There is NO POINT TO REPAIRING at all at this moment. When an item reaches zero durability nothing happens. It doesn't disappear, or unequip, or no longer function. It remains exactly the same. Again, don't sweat repairing anything yet.
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