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Some Critical (Non-Bug Related) IssuesFollow

#1 Sep 06 2010 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
278 posts
Feel free to post your thoughts I absolutely want to be debunked here:

The last half decade of MMO's, following the massive success of WoW, have ALL had one consistent problem, a problem I find within FFXIV. They attempt to turn the MMORPG into a single player game. Now, DISCLAIMER, my current experience is limited to La Noscea, and even in FFXI the starter areas were starter friendly so please tell me otherwise, but so far what I've seen is everything can be completed by yourself and when your done you receive a nice little teleport home whisking you from danger.

This kind of gameplay has major implications, the first of which really matters to me. Everybody seems to think FFXIV is going to have an amazing community because of their experience with FFXI but linkshells and friendships and partnerships in FFXI didn't just spring out of thin air. All of my best friends, during that game were met during leveling parties, and quest parties, missions, optical hat runs. Many of these friendships turned into linkshells which grew when more like minded players, who could not accomplish every goal in the game on their own, sought help.

The same is not true of WoW clones. WAR Online and Conan bot had major issues with this while the community in WoW is sparse as we all know. I have played nearly every MMO released by a major studio and even some indie games (Darkfall and Mortal?) and never has any game provided the same experience as FFXI. I know I'm going to get a couple "FFXI sucked ****" and "Soloable MMO's are the way to go!" but I honestly believe that making a game so easy that it can be soloed by anyone is completely detrimental to a strong and consistent community.

ThoughtsÉ And please tell me **** hits the fan past the newbie zones. :D
#2 Sep 06 2010 at 11:09 AM Rating: Default
54 posts
Personally, despite of what you said and the entire "one character can be all classes" mindset, I am left extremely dubious that the game will be easy and soloable in later stages. Granted, I haven't seen much of these "later stages", but judging from what I have experienced, trying to do everything by yourself is possible, but extremely time-consuming. You are better off trying to meet people up to create a mutually-beneficial relationship. XD
#3 Sep 06 2010 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
315 posts
Running 20 minutes to the east of uldah i ran into a group of firedrakes that hit me for 4200 dmg.. Maybe gear scales down damage quite effectivly but it still seems they want us to fight these mobs in groups. Most monsters outside of leve-quests are tougher too and have more HP (identical mobs) which indicates that levequests are for solo play. and grinding is for groups.
FFXI 2003-2007: Elaron ~Phoenix
FFXIV 2010-> : Gus Morgan ~Wutai
#4 Sep 06 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
256 posts
The way I see this game playing out...

You have two aspects of leveling: guildleves and grinding. Guildleves are for super casual players, and also so you can actually improve your character if you happen to only have a limited time to play (ie. you're going out and you have 30min to kill before you head out). It addresses the problem in FFXI where you could literally not level if you only had 30 min to kill or unless you have min. 3 hours free. In the higher levels these are more desirable to party with but you can still do a 1 star solo. The mobs in leves are easier and yeild more exp but leves have a limit, and my guess this is why there is a limit to leves.

Now, if you are in the slightest a serious player, you are going to need to grind. I think this is where the majority of us will gain exp and this is how SE envisioned the game. Around level 15 mobs start coning like XI mobs where you check a mob and it cons DC... but its definitely not the same DC of the newb areas. EP and DC start to become a challenge and we will have to PT to efficiently gain exp.

People are complaining about no PT and the lack of the social aspect of the game but just think back to XI, most people didn't party until the Dunes and most people weren't social until they needed to rely on others to progress. It is beta and most people don't care about leveling enough to grind (thus PT) and do not need anything badly enough to socialize.

Edit: grammar

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 12:22pm by Raionn
*Retired :: August 2002 - December 2005*
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#5 Sep 06 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
3,381 posts
MMORPGs must, must, must have a healthy mix of Solo and Group Content.

That's why WoW is so successful -- say what you want about WoW, but it has about as healthy mix of content as you can get, and it is the reason why it continues to just trample everyone else like an Elephant walking through a pack of cats.

FFXI was far too heavily in the "Need Group For Every Stinking Thing" direction, while many of the newer MMORPGs swing too heavily towards the "You can solo everything" direction.

What people need to do, is find that healthy middle -- allow you to progress your character nicely solo, but yet, give you plenty incentives to group up.

WoW does this by giving us instanced dungeons, and endgame raids. Once you reach endgame, you still have plenty of solo content, though -- crafting, daily questing, achievement grinding, and the plethora of fluff to be found within the game. If you want to group up, you open the _amazing_ "new" (new, as in last year) Looking for Dungeon and the newer Looking for Battleground feature, that automatically groups people together and whisks em away into the dungeon, so that you can get into the action fast.

FFXI had none of this -- it required groups for everything, but the Looking for Group system was simply atrocious. The only thing you could do, is set your LFG flag, write a Three-Line comment (each line had very limited character width too) so that IF someone was curious, they could see exactly what was in your /seacom. IF.

Let's look at another Grouping Aspect -- Job/Class Balance. FFXI simply doesn't have it, and it never did. They had too many jobs, and too few roles to be played in a group. Many jobs were simply not wanted in a group unless they absolutely had to. Too many "Niche Roles" that each job could play, but yet such "Niche Roles" were only needed in a handful of fights and tactics.

Over on the WoW side, _every single class in the game_ has a viable Group/Raid slot. Every stinking one. There are many classes that excel equally in two of the three main roles (Tank, Heal, Damage Dealer), and a few classes that are only Damage Dealers. Either way you roll the dice, common 5-man groups need 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 damage dealers. It didn't really matter what classes exactly, they all worked. The end combination was that _anyone_ could get a group for _anything_ just about. Some classes had their specialties, but they weren't so narrow that you couldn't meaningfully participate in anything that was _not_ that specialty. They took great care in balancing classes in such a way, that everyone could participate in just about everything.

My sincere apologies for the FF vs WoW thing, but it needed to be said. Grouping is not the Be-All and End-All of a game. Grouping and Soloing alike should be done in moderation, and at NO point should your character EVER be unable to progress without a group, until Endgame maybe.

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 2:45pm by Lyrailis
#6 Sep 06 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
370 posts
The party system in FFXIV is terrible. Not talking about party fighting but getting in a party. You can't search for people that want to party. You can't let anyone know you want to party, except for shouting. This must be fixed.
Moogle Inc linkshell
Stand in front of me fool...I am a Thaumaturge
#7 Sep 06 2010 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
3,381 posts
Obiar wrote:
The party system in FFXIV is terrible. Not talking about party fighting but getting in a party. You can't search for people that want to party. You can't let anyone know you want to party, except for shouting. This must be fixed.

It is still beta yet, there are things they are still implementing.

I'm sure that a /search function will be made available at a later time.

I hope, anyways.

And I agree with you, having to /say, /shout, or /tell to announce your intentions to group and the fact you have to be within 20 feet of someone to initiate a group isn't a good thing.
#8 Sep 06 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
2,815 posts
I tried my first lvl 10 levequest in Lanosca(or w/e). It required killing dodos. So I took the 'solo' difficulty. Turns out the dodos are in partys of 2, while 1 is easy to damage, with 2 attacking me I just kept dying before taking 1 down.

So right there is a reason to team up with at least 1 person, and that's just the second tier of levequests... I see levequests becoming the main reason to party, lvl 20 must be impossible to kill alone without being lvl 30+.

I'm not worried. Communities will form if only because people from FFXI are used to rolling that way. Not to mention inevitable some monsters will be found to drop X profitable item or Y leet gear, and groups will need to form to take those down as well.

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 2:56pm by RattyBatty
Minecraft : My anti-MMO
Terraria : My anti-Minecraft
#9 Sep 06 2010 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
370 posts
Another critical issue is that you can't target your party members from the party list. What I mean is, as healer, I have to turn, face, and target each member for heals instead of scrolling down my party menu and just healing whoever is low hp. This makes things much more difficult for healers because our position is in the middle of the party in FFXIV. I have archers behind me and other mages beside me. What I have been doing is setting my cures to AOE and targeting myself and just running around next to whoever needs heals. It can't stay like this.
Moogle Inc linkshell
Stand in front of me fool...I am a Thaumaturge
#10 Sep 06 2010 at 1:36 PM Rating: Excellent
194 posts
F12 scrolls between party members within range. Also there are macros listed in the beta manual for targeting specific people.
Among reasonable people, kindness is contagious.
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