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Cities so closeFollow

#1 Sep 06 2010 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Okay I spent my time as a mage, a warrior, and played a quick guildleve of miner to get a feel of whats to offer with jobs :) I wont complain (But if I were I would have alot to say) but doesnt it feel like the cities are really close? Todays goal was to wander around and look at all the "pretty" and enjoy instead of bug this and bug that. But really SEgo from Gridania into the woods, and then next zone down is the next city. Ewww
#2 Sep 06 2010 at 7:59 PM Rating: Good
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I read here that from Gridania, it takes 30 minutes to get to another city. I take it they must have took the scenic route then?
#3 Sep 06 2010 at 8:01 PM Rating: Good
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Another negative about that...after getting all the teles to the camps and main cities...it's really hard to not abuse my anima = P

Nice that you can check some of the other city's leves though...I noticed gridania had one that gave a square maple shield...after spending 45k for an NPC's shield in Ul'dah of course

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 10:02pm by TwistedOwl
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#4 Sep 06 2010 at 8:04 PM Rating: Decent
the way i remember ffxi, the cities were linked like this: (using windurst as example)

City (windurst)
Beginner Zone (sarutabaruta)
advanced zone (tahrongi)
connection hub for advanced zones (saurumauge champaign)


does this game skip the advanced zone, and just hub the starter zones together?
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#5 Sep 06 2010 at 8:08 PM Rating: Default
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I'm not sure there is any reason to believe they wont insert zones in-between how you currently go from one city to another. Remember, it's a beta.

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 10:08pm by Darkm0d
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#6 Sep 06 2010 at 8:08 PM Rating: Default
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Pretty much yeah, I did get owned by a antlion looking thing but who cares its beta. But its was just two semi big zones connected. Each having one of the starter cities. THe farther from the city gates the mobs got tougher with tele gates, and camps thrown around for whatever reason. another odd thing to try to understand. but if this game is geared to casual gamers only, **** log on grab a leve tele to one of the 6 tele's in the zone quick 30 min or less later all done. /sigh
#7 Sep 06 2010 at 8:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ok pardon the crappy web graphics about to show up here but I want to explain how I think the new world layout will be.

In FFXI, the world layout is generally this way, when looking at cities.

 
   O ---------- O 
     \         / 
      \   O   / 
       \     / 
        \   / 
          O 

The O in the center being the central hub city, surrounded by the 3 other nation capitals. The world had to grow between these points, and a little outward once they ran out of 'space'.

I think this time around they're going with this model:

 
         | 
         | 
         O  
       /   \   
      O ... O 
     /       \ 
    /         \ 
  
(dotted line represents aparent lack of direct route between forest  
and pirate towns, unless I'm missing it.)              


Main cites being close, and the world will grow 'away' from them. This way they have a huge ammount of space on a map, to work in new areas. I've spent most days walking around to every area I can without being killed. And this is how i feel the existing zones already are laid out.

Also this means that expansions would probably tag on 1 new zone for each city 'branch', meaning each added zone would be further and further away from civilization. The world would feel wider every time they expand. It would feel like our little cities are colonizing into the wilds around them as the game ages.

From each Town right now you can either go "towards the other town" or "The other way, into the dangerous wilds". Seems to match the graph.

Pressing 'submit' and hoping these graphs make visible sense on the other side!!


Edited, Sep 6th 2010 10:20pm by RattyBatty
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#8 Sep 06 2010 at 8:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
does this game skip the advanced zone, and just hub the starter zones together?


The quick answer is yes. The black shroud is the "beginner zone" outside of gridania and you can follow the road straight to thanalon which is the "beginner zone" outside of ul'dah. The thing is though, each zone has eastern, western, and northern/southern parts as well as caves and such you can enter and be completely different zones altogether. Once you start to wander off the main beaten path to one of the peripheral parts of those zones you'll find that you'll need to be around rank 20 or more in your class to be able to defeat those enemies. It's kind of like they took ranfaure and added la theine to it.
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#9 Sep 06 2010 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
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You also need to keep in mind these zones are litterly 10 x bigger than FFXI zone. Walk from 1 end to the other and tell me otherwise lol.

Even though going to each city is more accesible, the zones are still WAY bigger. I personally dont mind being able to access the other cities at a lower level. But again, they completely cut off multiple zones in the beta. one of the zones leads to the central hub, i.e. the jeuno equivalent.
#10 Sep 06 2010 at 8:24 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
It's kind of like they took ranfaure and added la theine to it


That's exactly what its like. And same zones have different scenery throughout if you explore enough. I spent like 2 hours exploring 1 zone yesterday. The one just outside of Black Shroud to the west.

Here's some pics....

http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv253/Absolutevirtue_420/1283768597-1.jpg

http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv253/Absolutevirtue_420/1283769653.jpg

http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv253/Absolutevirtue_420/1283769262.jpg

http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv253/Absolutevirtue_420/1283767038.jpg
#11 Sep 06 2010 at 8:28 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm really hoping that this will mean that there will be more big city zones, instead of 5 and a few little towns. It should help it feel like a larger, living world.
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#12 Sep 06 2010 at 9:42 PM Rating: Good
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i have personally traveled between all cities, starting in ul'dah... to get to limsa'lominsa... you dont even zone once. at the west end of thalanan zone (zone outside ul'dah) you get on a ferry and you arrive in limsa'lominsa. Very fast and close, say about 15-20 min running.

from ul'dah to gridania on the other hand took a LOT longer, but still only 1 zone. from thalanan zone, you head northeast, and enter black shroud, black shroud is the zone right outside gridania. this zone though is extremely large in terms of a maze like map, so it took say 30-45 min to get to gridania from the zone.

i myself am extremely worried about how close the cities are and where the other zones are going to be? i mean in xi, u run from sandy > ronfaure > la theine > valkurm > konstacht north > konstacht south to get to bastok.
#13 Sep 06 2010 at 9:45 PM Rating: Good
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But isn't 30-45 minutes between zones pretty far?
#14 Sep 06 2010 at 9:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Main cites being close, and the world will grow 'away' from them.


I think you're right on this, and I also think it's a great way to build the world.

#15 Sep 06 2010 at 10:49 PM Rating: Decent
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ghosthawk09 wrote:
i mean in xi, u run from sandy > ronfaure > la theine > valkurm > konstacht north > konstacht south to get to bastok.

Someone was going to do it so mise well be me. It goes Valk >> Highlands >> North Gusta I know I know, trivial and besides your point lol.

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#16 Sep 06 2010 at 10:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Raionn wrote:
ghosthawk09 wrote:
i mean in xi, u run from sandy > ronfaure > la theine > valkurm > konstacht north > konstacht south to get to bastok.

Someone was going to do it so mise well be me. It goes Valk >> Highlands >> North Gusta I know I know, trivial and besides your point lol.



And you only run into Stray Mary when you're low level and she destroys you, otherwise she doesn't exist....that's how it was for me anyway...
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#17 Sep 06 2010 at 11:02 PM Rating: Good
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Castrophany wrote:
I read here that from Gridania, it takes 30 minutes to get to another city. I take it they must have took the scenic route then?


More like 15-20, and there's really nothing dangerous to a lvl 1 on the way. There is a complete lack of the "holy sh*t I am a thousand miles from nowhere and everything wants to kill me" feeling that I loved in FFXI.

DirectorCobbs wrote:



does this game skip the advanced zone, and just hub the starter zones together?


Basically this.

Edited, Sep 7th 2010 2:04am by Lobivopis
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#18 Sep 06 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Decent
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It takes soooooo long to get to gridania from LL when you have 0 anima >.>

Is there a faster way other than the ferry to uldah and re-run? Have they mentioned how chocobos/mounts will work yet?
#19 Sep 07 2010 at 12:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It takes soooooo long to get to gridania from LL when you have 0 anima >.>

Is there a faster way other than the ferry to uldah and re-run? Have they mentioned how chocobos/mounts will work yet?



the chocobos License quest wont prob be added til later on lol
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#20 Sep 07 2010 at 3:59 AM Rating: Good
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Lobivopis wrote:
More like 15-20, and there's really nothing dangerous to a lvl 1 on the way. There is a complete lack of the "holy sh*t I am a thousand miles from nowhere and everything wants to kill me" feeling that I loved in FFXI.


Hehe, I remember that feeling too. Running from one of the starting cities to Jeuno with a lvl1 mule...classic.
Also exploring was more exciting as you never knew if you would survive walking around the next corner ^^
I hope this will be the case again in FFXIV's higher level areas in the future.
As for starting areas I find the current system pretty good except for the rather low mob density (in some parts of the areas I didn't see any mob at all) and a big gap between the low level mobs and the next "tier".
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#21 Sep 07 2010 at 4:06 AM Rating: Decent
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It really does seem weird to me. It almost doesn't feel like they are separate regions anymore. They are far too connected and easy to travel between.
#22 Sep 07 2010 at 4:30 AM Rating: Good
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This seems like a smarter design on their end. I mean, once the population matures, who really spends time in those multiple connecting zones? As an example, Valkurm dunes may be populated, but go to la thiene or konschat and you'd probably find 2-4 people in the entire zone. Is it really worth the server resources to design such vast transitional areas that will be empty or near-empty within 3-4 years of the game's lifespan?

This larger, more condensed format will probably remain useful for much longer. Besides: we don't know what's their overall plan for the world, there may be plenty that they're going add-on to the map.

Edited, Sep 7th 2010 6:31am by ghosthacked
#23 Sep 07 2010 at 4:36 AM Rating: Good
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Doh that's kind of lame. I would preferred they just made the anima teleport system take care of capital city travel. Hopefully at least the high end zones will be cool and feel dangerous to explore.
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#24 Sep 07 2010 at 4:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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The maps are huge. Exploring every nook and cranny can take a long, long time.

If you know the directions from city to city then you will lose that whole "wtf am i" feeling you had the first time you did it in ffxi and had no idea where to run. FFXI was almost 10 years ago. I think it is pretty hard to experience that "omg everything's new and i'm a noob that can get killed by a rabbit" feeling exactly the same way we did in ffxi.

I started out the open beta in Gridania and I had no idea where to go to in order to get to Uldah. I walked around the huge Black Shroud map for a long time, before i encountered a zone. Only, it wasn't Thanalan, it was Coerthas.

And that map is huge as well. I could say that i was walking for about 40 minutes before i gave up and decided to look for a map online. If i hadn't done that, and decided to explore the entire map until i found the way to the next city, it would've taken me hours to find it.

Maybe it has to do with the fact that people are expecting that ffxi new player feeling. I played ffxi for years and I can't shake the feeling that Eorzea is huge everytime i'm walking through it.

Once you know which way to go, it is a safe journey and pretty straightforward; but I can appreciate. Particularly in a world where teleport spells haven't been implemented yet. Once you're out of anima it is a long, long walk.
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#25 Sep 07 2010 at 4:47 AM Rating: Decent
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FaithseekerOishii wrote:
Hopefully at least the high end zones will be cool and feel dangerous to explore.


It does, and they are. Dunes-esque
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#26 Sep 07 2010 at 5:21 AM Rating: Good
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Maybe it just seems small because you don't have to zone as you travel. Also, you can travel much faster than you could in XI because of the lack of danger. I remember my first encounter with the Yagudo not very far beyond the gates of Windy. Those guys made the zone seem bigger because you had to find ways around them or die.
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#27 Sep 07 2010 at 7:33 AM Rating: Decent
RidingBean wrote:

Also exploring was more exciting as you never knew if you would survive walking around the next corner ^^
I hope this will be the case again in FFXIV's higher level areas in the future.
As for starting areas I find the current system pretty good except for the rather low mob density (in some parts of the areas I didn't see any mob at all) and a big gap between the low level mobs and the next "tier".


in the black shroud if you wander just a few fee off the marked path you will definitely wonder if something around the corner will kill you.

At level 5 I ran from Gridania to Limsa and all of the mobs on the path were blue or green. go just a bit off that path and you find the orange and red. It seems that the difficulty is not based solely on distance for the city but form the marked path as well.
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#28 Sep 07 2010 at 7:34 AM Rating: Decent
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i miss those yagudos and farming bee chips in their city :)
#29 Sep 07 2010 at 7:50 AM Rating: Good
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To all those missing FFXI so much you do remember the game is still going? Sure, it is over 8 years old, but that's not a bad thing. The game still looks pretty good on a semi-decent computer (****, probablly just about any home PC at this point). The thing about MMOs, they tend to get better the longer they are out (as long as the developers don't change the entire game and ***** it up).

I was still playing FFXI up to this point. I plan to play both with most of my time in XIV. But, if XIV doesn't end up being the game I want it to be, XI is still as good as ever and long past all the headaches of a new MMO.

I just wanted to point this out, because so many people keep making comments like they are mourning the death of FFXI and having to settle for the new game. You can still play FFXI or you can do what I am doing and playing a little of both with SE's new bundled price. If you like XIV, but feel after you do all you leves, etc you feel like you got too much downtime, you can switch to XI for the rest of the day.
#30 Sep 07 2010 at 7:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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I kinda wish the areas are a bit more progressive. Kind of strange to jump from a forest area directly into a rocky waste land.
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#31 Sep 07 2010 at 8:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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OneFatAngel wrote:
I kinda wish the areas are a bit more progressive. Kind of strange to jump from a forest area directly into a rocky waste land.


I was a little disappointed at the transition form Thanalan to the Black Shroud.
#32 Sep 07 2010 at 8:08 AM Rating: Decent
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The zone design is very different from what we are used to. Right outside Gridania just west of the first camp is an area with high level mobs, they look to be around level 30. Just to the south of the first camp outside of Gridania is a Dungeon with level 20-30ish mobs. All around are level 1-10 usually close to the roads and higher level 10-20 in the areas next to the roads.

The layout is very weird but i can see what they are trying to do. Basically the Zone outside the starter city is huge and has mobs for levels 1-30 if not higher (south-east just outside Ul'Dah i found Peiste and Dragons 2-3 minute walk from the city gates.)

There are 2 Dungeons in every starter Zone. One is around level 30+ the other i can not really tell (assuming 30-40 if not 50).
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#33 Sep 07 2010 at 8:23 AM Rating: Good
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DirectorCobbs wrote:

does this game skip the advanced zone, and just hub the starter zones together?


Yeah, all the beginner zones are connected. The advanced zones are not very conveniently located though -- Corethas is northwest of Gridania by a long ways. I assume many advanced zones are going to be accessible through Corethas only, and there may or may not be a quest before you can enter. I just hope there's a ship from Limsa and an airship or something from Ul'dah, because even on a chicken it would not be fun to ride to Corethas from Uldah or Limsa.
#34 Sep 07 2010 at 8:28 AM Rating: Good
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KindjalFerrer wrote:

The zone design is very different from what we are used to. Right outside Gridania just west of the first camp is an area with high level mobs, they look to be around level 30. Just to the south of the first camp outside of Gridania is a Dungeon with level 20-30ish mobs. All around are level 1-10 usually close to the roads and higher level 10-20 in the areas next to the roads.


The newer zones in FFXI (namely WoTG and Abyssea expansion zones) work the same way. It helps keep old zones from seeming like Kindergarden playgrounds once you level up a bit, as well as keep those zones worthwhile to visit at all levels.
#35 Sep 07 2010 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
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Took about an hour and a half to run from Gridainia > Ul'dah > Limsa Lominsa.
Easy peasy if you stay on the road. I'll worry more about the overall size after I have explored more. Perhaps the dungeons will add some depth to the world.

Getting killed by a Lindblum is fun, but getting killed by a Cactaur is awesome!
#36 Sep 07 2010 at 8:43 AM Rating: Good
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What worries me more is the fact that, when you zone form the "Uldah" Region into the "Gridania" Region, it goes like this:

Bone-dry Savannah desert (all yellow) -> Loading Screen (all black) -> Dense Rainforest (all green).
A few meters of in-between terrain wouldn't have hurt.
#37 Sep 07 2010 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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I think the cities being semi closer is great simply because you have easier access to all the guilds at an early level. I agree with what another poster said, it's much better idea to build the cities semi close, and then build the world out from the cities. Maybe expand add more cities as you get further.
#38 Sep 07 2010 at 9:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Getting killed by a Lindblum is fun, but getting killed by a Cactaur is awesome!


1000 Needles, AoE = entire party killed.. Not to mention it can use it 1-2 times in succession.. >.<
#39 Sep 07 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
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I thought about that too, wouldn't it be awesome if when the full game came out we discovered that they just added a lot of zones in between hence making these odd transitions go away. :)
#40 Sep 07 2010 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Bone-dry Savannah desert (all yellow) -> Loading Screen (all black) -> Dense Rainforest (all green).
A few meters of in-between terrain wouldn't have hurt.

Another +1 to this, even just putting a little green in the final corridor before the zoneline, and a few trees.

But I find the entire fact that you zone at all to be a little strange. Maybe there will be a transitional area between all these zones at release, resulting in no loading screens and a more smooth theme change.

Edited, Sep 7th 2010 12:49pm by RattyBatty
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#41 Sep 07 2010 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Anyone else get the feeling that Square Enix put a WHOLE lot of effort into the design of some things, the graphics and what not... But spent so much time on that, that they failed to make the world bigger, more expansive, unique and complex? Even a lot of the systems in game like guild leve are just really basic and simple questing systems that don't have actual "quests" to go along with them. Maybe they'll be added, hopefully they do but right now it feels kind of like the person who said "It's like one big bubble". It doesn't feel like a entire world like Vana Diel, or even dare I say Azeroth. It just feels like these big huge zones with a lot of the same scenery, that are gigantic but not very imaginative and there's just a limited number of them to boot. Not going to pass judgment yet just stating how it feels for me so far.
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#42 Sep 07 2010 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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Come back after walking every road in every direction, as far as you can get. See you in 10 hours when you take back your statement.
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#43 Sep 07 2010 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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bricbasher wrote:
I thought about that too, wouldn't it be awesome if when the full game came out we discovered that they just added a lot of zones in between hence making these odd transitions go away. :)


One can only hope!

Seems unlikely because of the Ferry that goes straight to Limsa. I don't know how you could squeeze a zone in there.

Between the forest and the desert would be easy.
#44 Sep 07 2010 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Double

Edited, Sep 7th 2010 5:42pm by RattyBatty
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#45 Sep 07 2010 at 3:41 PM Rating: Decent
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You know I just realized we have the world map right here, on the BG of this site!
Took the liberty of correcting the angle and cropping.

So to add more to the discussion, here's your world map.

To me looks like the 3 cities in the upper right area, just as my graph supposed. And then we have the 2 extra zones to the bottom and left side. As well as the mysterious island to the lower left. :) Looks like the world will indeed expand in all directions, away from the 3 starter towns. I like this better than the "central city" concept. Will make sure the starter towns don't become deserted at endgame.



Edited, Sep 7th 2010 5:46pm by RattyBatty
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#46 Sep 07 2010 at 4:11 PM Rating: Good
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bricbasher wrote:
I thought about that too, wouldn't it be awesome if when the full game came out we discovered that they just added a lot of zones in between hence making these odd transitions go away. :)


Don't get your hopes up. If this is the case, that would mean they designed the ferry from Limsa to Uldah strictly for the Beta, which seems highly unlikely to me. The only way I think this could be a possibility is if the ferry didnt take you directly to Ul'dah's starting zone, and even then, that would mean ripping either Ul'dah off it's current map and placing it in another, or ripping the map in half and splicing the two pieces onto two pieces of another ripped map. Or they could just redesign the whole western edge of the Ul'dah zone to allow a transition to another. Doesn't sound like a possibility now, does it?
#47 Sep 07 2010 at 4:27 PM Rating: Default
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Every destined hero picked by the gods will be united as one at some point in the storyline which makes sense why the cities are within reach to each other. Instead of each city having its entirely own story, it will reach a point where all 3 cities have the same mission together to battle against the evil that has come upon the lands.

I saw a screenshot of all heroes together preparing for attack.
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