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#52 Sep 07 2010 at 5:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
That's undeniable proof that there's some connection. Like I said before, it's obviously more complicated than simply having points in a certain resistance makes you get that elements shards, but there's a connection there and I'm sure someone will research it in more detail and provide the specifics.


That's like saying I ate a bowl of cheerios and then I rolled an 18 on 3 dice. Cheerios makes me roll 18s! Undeniable proof!
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#53 Sep 07 2010 at 5:38 PM Rating: Good
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All I get is fire shards when I fish because I jacked the fire stat up to 67 in hopes of better burning enemies with my conjurer = P
Now I'm reallocating every once in a while to better balance it because I need some friggin' lightning shards...
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#54 Sep 07 2010 at 5:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Okay. I finished my initial tests, with some interesting results that do indicate further testing is necessary.

I tested with 50 successful mining attempts for each group. I am a level 14 miner and my level did not change during testing. I used all grade 1 mining points outside of Ul'dah. Every attempt was done at the default, center depth.

Group 1:
Game Time: 1/26 11:00 - 1/26 23:10
Elemental Stats: Fire 32; Wind 30; Earth 30; Ice 30; Water 30; Lightning 30
Shards: 64 Fire; 0 Wind; 0 Earth; 0 Ice; 0 Water; 0 Lightning; 64 Total
Gear Quality: 50% Starting
Sharp Vision was active for 4 attempts, and 4 Fire Shards received during Sharp Vision

Group 2:
Game Time: 1/27 14:25 - 1/28 1:15
Elemental Stats: Fire 26; Wind 50; Earth 24; Ice 24; Water 24; Lightning 24
Shards: 31 Fire; 31 Wind; 0 Earth; 0 Ice; 0 Water; 0 Lightning; 62 Total
Gear Quality: 75% Starting
Sharp Vision was active for 7 attempts, and 8 Wind Shards received during Sharp Vision

In conclusion, it looks like there may actually be something to this theory of elemental stats affecting shard drops from mining. I want to remind everyone, however, that as I said earlier, even 50 attempts per group is a pretty low sample size. I find it interesting that the first group was so extreme, as in the past, I have definitely received Fire, Wind and Earth shards from these points and the even distribution of elemental stats was something I had done all the way up to the shift to wind for this test. It is also interesting that no Earth Shards showed up at all during either test.

I would like to do further testing with extremes in the other elements and see what happens, especially those elements which I have never received from these points before. I attempted to control as many variables as I could, but I did not maintain consistent distance from the point, nor did I face the same direction. The first set was done almost exclusively on the western side of the map, while the second was more balanced - I simply followed Lay of the Land to the next point each time.

I would like to have other people test this in a similar fashion in the other areas as well. More testing benefits everyone, especially rigorous testing.
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#55 Sep 07 2010 at 6:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Nice one, well done for attempting to make things clearer, rate up
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#56 Sep 07 2010 at 6:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for post, well done and interesting results - I wonder though how many factors actually affect this; it could be multiple things such as weather and maybe time of day and what not - who knows.
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#57 Sep 07 2010 at 9:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Good start to gathering some real numbers.
Be interesting to get a base line with all equal stats over multiple days, just so we can see average drop spread.
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#58 Sep 07 2010 at 10:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Did a little bit of testing with fishing...earlier I mentioned I only got fire shards with a 67 fire stat. I've slowly been reassigning the stats when I could and now I have:

Fire55, Water15, Lightning59, Wind16, Earth13, Ice14

With these stats I tallied the numbers for 50 successful fishing attempts:
Lightning 22(44%)
No Shard 16(32%)
Fire 12(24%)

Of the 34 that yielded shards:
Lightning 22(64.7%)
Fire 12(35.3%)

Bonus stat:
57 lugworms were used in this test for 87.7% successful fishing...not bad! = P
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#59 Sep 08 2010 at 12:59 AM Rating: Good
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This is an example of the regression fallacy. The fact that you got an exceptionally low amount of Fire crystals from mobs that drop them would be a statistically unusual event (assuming you did everything else right, such as fighting the right kinds of mobs or in FFXI getting Signet). The drop rate was bound to improve just from regression to the mean as you kept killing mobs that were eligible to drop fire crystals. This would have happened whether you switched your resistances or not. However, since you happened to switch your elemental resistances right before you started seeing fire crystal drops, your brain saw a pattern that wasn't necessarily there. Correlation does not equal causation.

Don't get me wrong. This doesn't mean the hypothesis is definitely wrong, but there definitely needs to be more testing (and not just anecdotal evidence) before you state something like this as fact.
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#60 Sep 08 2010 at 1:16 AM Rating: Good
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shinichoco wrote:
Quote:
That's undeniable proof that there's some connection. Like I said before, it's obviously more complicated than simply having points in a certain resistance makes you get that elements shards, but there's a connection there and I'm sure someone will research it in more detail and provide the specifics.


That's like saying I ate a bowl of cheerios and then I rolled an 18 on 3 dice. Cheerios makes me roll 18s! Undeniable proof!

It really isn't anything like that at all :/

I honestly can't understand why people are saying this is ********* We all agree that further testing is needed and that it's likely to be a complex connection, but to deny that there's a connection at all is just ignorant.

Someone needs to test it near a different city. I would but I don't have the time. We all know that wind shards are rare near Ul'dah, but which shards are rare near the other cities (from gathering, not drops)? For example, if earth shards are hard to come by near LL, someone could try out the same theory there.
#61 Sep 08 2010 at 3:23 AM Rating: Decent
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I think at this point, our next step would be:

  • Take 2 of the same Gatherer Class (Miner, Fishing, Herbalism)
  • Make sure they are the same level
  • Strip them of all gear except their weapon at 100% Durability
  • Make sure Stats are the same Except Resistances. (1 person at max Wind, the other chooses another element, preferably not one that seems to be associated with that region)
  • Send them out to the same time and same node

  • Each mines the exact same number of times as the other
  • Repeat at each node
  • Compare results




  • Edited, Sep 8th 2010 5:27am by MonkeyLords

    Edited, Sep 8th 2010 5:39am by MonkeyLords
    #62 Sep 08 2010 at 3:28 AM Rating: Good
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    This isn't much, but I did a quick test to add to the results if any ones keeping track...

    20 tree's as rank 10 botanist. Resistances shown in brackets, other number is shards obtained.

    Lighting (13) - 14
    Fire (14) - 26
    Ice (16) - 0
    Wind (49) - 80
    Earth (14) - 0
    Water (18) - 0

    Another 20, with points allocated to Earth because I didn't get any Earth shards before.

    Lighting (13) - 8
    Fire (14) - 35
    Ice (16) - 0
    Wind (47) - 51
    Earth (41) - 11
    Water (18) - 0

    I didn't get many Earth, but I got some whereas before I didn't get any. I got more fire this time, and less wind. Maybe 1 element has to be heavily favoured over the rest? And when it isn't, the odds revert towards their default which in this case would be fire, because it was near Ul'dar.

    I don't have any stats to back this up, but as I said before, I didn't get one single wind shard on several different characters, with both mining and botany until I allocated points in to that resistance.
    #63 Sep 08 2010 at 4:41 AM Rating: Decent
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    I harvested around Limsa Lominsa as well as Gridania. Also when I go out with my ARC I only beat up mobs of primary elements Wind and Earth for my craft. Also I was boosting Fire element stat for no reason (Hadn't really thought about it, but fire sounded cool). Had fire stat at 57 before I decided I should also put some cheaper points into the other stats evenly. Still heavy fire focus remained.

    At the end of my runs I end up having loads of Wind and Earth as expected (cause of that being the focus of my targets with ARC), but I also had equal amounts of Fire, probably from gathering and sub drops from mob.
    Ice, Water and Lightning shards where no where near the others. It was pretty obvious like <100 amounts for Ice, Water, Lightning, while Fire, Earth and Wind was >300 amounts of shards.

    So yeah that could very well mean elemental stats do add favor to that element while gathering and even with sub element drops from mob. It could even be both area related AND stat related... I'm interested in finding / testing this out. Will be switching out to primary wind and secondary earth soon. Curious to see with my next upcoming runs if the amount of fire shards will decrease notably and if I start swimming in wind shards. Will try to report findings when done.

    Edited, Sep 8th 2010 6:48am by ShayAmora
    #64 Sep 08 2010 at 4:47 AM Rating: Good
    I was really low on lightning shards and I needed them, so I put a bunch of resistance in lightning and got a lot. I put just as much in water and didn't get any though. This was through mining near Ul'duh btw, so while I think there's a strong possibility if affects what you get, it doesn't solely determine it. You still can't squeeze water from rocks. : \
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    #65 Sep 08 2010 at 5:30 AM Rating: Decent
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    I have my elemental resistance equally divided. Played mostly around Ul'dah and had almost no Wind Shards (like 6 or so, while I have around 300 Fire Shards). Lots of Fire and Earth Shards though.

    I wanted to have some Wind Shards for crafting so I went to LL. Doing some mining/botanic and killing I had a lot of Wind Shard drops.

    Also made a new character. Started in LL and within no time I had more Wind Shards then any other shards. Elemental resistance was also divided amongst every resistance on this char.
    #66 Sep 08 2010 at 9:10 AM Rating: Decent
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    I decided to do another quick test. I'm sure we can all agree that water shards are going to be rare in a desert. I just happen to have a different character that's a level 8 botanist and I hadn't assigned any points yet. It was my first character but I gave up on her to try different things. Personally I haven't received a single water shard from gathering near Ul'dah. I logged in, assigned all points to water and my first tree...

    http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/5255/44033153.jpg

    Resistances looked like this...
    Fire - 16
    Water - 51
    Lighting - 16
    Wind - 15
    Earth - 14
    Ice - 18

    Some people had suggested that regardless of how many points you allocate, you simply wouldn't be able to get certain shards in certain places (ie water in the desert). Obviously more investigation is required, but this at least proves that that isn't the case.
    #67 Sep 08 2010 at 10:19 AM Rating: Default
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    Ok I want to thank the OP for putting this thread up. Mainly because it will force people to test it however you will get people that test it thinking in 1 way and not in different ways that it may work. I find it stupid that people will get on here and bad mouth someone for just letting people know what they have heard works and had worked for them. Maybe this theory only works on Miner's. As for the people that sit there and say well I have points spread out equally so I should have an equal amount of crystals/shards. Maybe you don't understand how it may work say you put points heavily in only 1 element maybe that increases the chance by a % say 80% chance of dropping from mining now say you spread the points out evenly what is it 6 elements? (I forgot how many) Now because you did that it may have dropped the % to say 15% for each type. That 15% doesn't mean you will get an equal amount of each type just means that's the chance it has to drop from mining. I'm not a math/science guru but people need to think out all the possibiities before they try out 1 way and say NO YOU ARE WRONG STOP SPREADING RUMORS! OP Good Job for pointing this out and hopefully some people that are good with numbers/testing can put some kind of spreadsheet together.

    Edited, Sep 8th 2010 12:36pm by Sykksmoke
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    #68 Sep 08 2010 at 10:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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    Sykksmoke wrote:
    Ok I want to thank the OP for putting this out thread up. Mainly because it will force people to test it however you will get people that test it thinking in 1 way and not in different ways that it may work. I find it stupid that people will get on here and bad mouth someone for just letting people know what they have heard works and had worked for them. Maybe this theory only works on Miner's. As for the people that sit there and say well I have points spread out equally so I should have an equal amount of crystals/shards. Maybe you don't understand how it may work say you put points heavily in only 1 element maybe that increases the chance by a % say 80% chance of dropping from mining now say you spread the points out evenly what is it 6 elements? (I forgot how many) Now because you did that it may have dropped the % to say 15% for each type. That 15% doesn't mean you will get an equal amount of each type just means that's the chance it has to drop from mining. I'm not a math/science guru but people need to think out all the possibiities before they try out 1 way and say NO YOU ARE WRONG STOP SPREADING RUMORS! OP Good Job for pointing this out and hopefully some people that are good with numbers/testing can put some kind of spreadsheet together


    I never said "you're wrong". I said that the evidence provided was anecdotal, and therefore shouldn't be stated as fact (even if unintentionally). I then proceeded to do some actual testing, which was posted above.

    Not being a math/science guy, I will also assume you are not a programming guy either, as programming and math are highly inter-related. It would be very strange, from a programming perspective, if the value was based solely on being an extreme difference, rather than a general boost derived directly from the rating. Therefore, it would make little sense that an even distribution of points would not, over time, produce an even number of drops if the elemental attribute was a major factor in what types of shards drop.

    Based on my small sample size, it seems like there could be an influence on drop rate based on elemental affinity. There is still not enough data to form any solid conclusions, however, so people still should not go about stating that "elemental stats directly influence your shard drops!" since it has not been proven. It would be much better to say "there may be a link to elemental stats and shard drops from gathering, so it is worth looking into."
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    #69 Sep 08 2010 at 10:43 AM Rating: Excellent
    parabolaa wrote:
    I decided to do another quick test. I'm sure we can all agree that water shards are going to be rare in a desert. I just happen to have a different character that's a level 8 botanist and I hadn't assigned any points yet. It was my first character but I gave up on her to try different things. Personally I haven't received a single water shard from gathering near Ul'dah. I logged in, assigned all points to water and my first tree...

    http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/5255/44033153.jpg

    Resistances looked like this...
    Fire - 16
    Water - 51
    Lighting - 16
    Wind - 15
    Earth - 14
    Ice - 18

    Some people had suggested that regardless of how many points you allocate, you simply wouldn't be able to get certain shards in certain places (ie water in the desert). Obviously more investigation is required, but this at least proves that that isn't the case.


    This is interesting because I didn't get many water shards with my character in Ul'Dah but I'm still not getting many with my character in Gridania (both with evened out resistances). Anyone from LL have an observation regarding this?
    #70 Sep 08 2010 at 10:59 AM Rating: Good
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    Just throwing out random ideas, and sorry if they were mentioned before, but aren't the elements in two sets of three, with a rock-paper-scissors kind of mentality? It would seem to make sense that you would get a lot more crystals/shards if you entirely stacked one element than if you heavily stacked one but ALSO put points into whatever it's weak against.

    I mean, we all try and make theories out of incomplete data, but that would at least make theoretical sense. It seems like when one element solely is stacked with points the results are MUCH larger than if one stat just is more heavily weighted than the others.
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    #71 Sep 08 2010 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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    Its sad that someone can't come on here and post something about the game that they experienced, which they found to be fun and true - to the extent that they tried it, and just giving a heads up to other people so they can try it out for themselves!

    I mean geez! Its not like the OP came on and said "Hey, I found out if you let your character get knocked out ten times in a row you'll get 10,000 gil! Go do it!"

    The OP said nothing harmful that would cause any problems for anyone if they tried it for themselves. The most what he suggests would do is cause someone to put points in an element. Quite frankly, I don't even know what the heck the element point system is for to begin with! Does is show your resistence to attacks made with those elements? Does it enhance your ability to use these elements? Does it help you get crystals for these elements? What the heck! What on earth is this point system for anyway????

    I just think some of you are getting way too angry on this when it was just a simple observation made by the OP. Anyway, how can you even test a theory out unless you get some other people to try it too and see if it works for them as well? Either way, there's no need to get angry at anyone over it!

    I'm going to try this when I get home with one of my characters and see what happens. This is just beta anyway so it's not going to hurt my character to waste the points in the wrong element (because I don't understand the use of them to begin with) because its all just a test anyway - the whole beta is a test. Why not try out different things before we get our actual charaters on there? That way we don't waste anything on the real ones.

    Anyway, I commend you, Edalya, for at least admitting that there may be something to OP's theory.

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    Edited, Sep 8th 2010 1:14pm by Mimotep
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    #72 Sep 08 2010 at 1:08 PM Rating: Decent
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    Is there any truth to this.

    I don't think it's 100% accurate but I think it might make a difference. I wonder if the The Sun and Moon calander days have anything to do with it. Also the Guardian you choose. Any one know?
    #73 Sep 08 2010 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
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    About to test this on a new DoH right now.
    #74 Sep 08 2010 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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    I started a new miqo'te in LL, botanist, born the 4th of the 2nd umbral moon with Menphina as her guardian. Doing the first 3 leves for botanists, she got like 34 wind shards and none others -- I put all my points in wind element.

    My hyur female with 100% points in water in Ul'dah has never seen a single wind shard drop from mining or botany, and only started getting them at gladiator 9ish, when I started killing dodos.

    I'm pretty sure the theory that your elemental affinity affects your DoL shards is true. It doesn't seem to have any important impact on the shards that mobs drop.
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    #75 Sep 08 2010 at 3:13 PM Rating: Default
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    Edalya wrote:
    Sykksmoke wrote:
    Ok I want to thank the OP for putting this out thread up. Mainly because it will force people to test it however you will get people that test it thinking in 1 way and not in different ways that it may work. I find it stupid that people will get on here and bad mouth someone for just letting people know what they have heard works and had worked for them. Maybe this theory only works on Miner's. As for the people that sit there and say well I have points spread out equally so I should have an equal amount of crystals/shards. Maybe you don't understand how it may work say you put points heavily in only 1 element maybe that increases the chance by a % say 80% chance of dropping from mining now say you spread the points out evenly what is it 6 elements? (I forgot how many) Now because you did that it may have dropped the % to say 15% for each type. That 15% doesn't mean you will get an equal amount of each type just means that's the chance it has to drop from mining. I'm not a math/science guru but people need to think out all the possibiities before they try out 1 way and say NO YOU ARE WRONG STOP SPREADING RUMORS! OP Good Job for pointing this out and hopefully some people that are good with numbers/testing can put some kind of spreadsheet together


    I never said "you're wrong". I said that the evidence provided was anecdotal, and therefore shouldn't be stated as fact (even if unintentionally). I then proceeded to do some actual testing, which was posted above.

    Not being a math/science guy, I will also assume you are not a programming guy either, as programming and math are highly inter-related. It would be very strange, from a programming perspective, if the value was based solely on being an extreme difference, rather than a general boost derived directly from the rating. Therefore, it would make little sense that an even distribution of points would not, over time, produce an even number of drops if the elemental attribute was a major factor in what types of shards drop.

    Based on my small sample size, it seems like there could be an influence on drop rate based on elemental affinity. There is still not enough data to form any solid conclusions, however, so people still should not go about stating that "elemental stats directly influence your shard drops!" since it has not been proven. It would be much better to say "there may be a link to elemental stats and shard drops from gathering, so it is worth looking into."


    Ok...Just want to say that I wasn't going after you with my comment just the general reaction of many people towards people that post these types of threads. I've seen them time and time again and it gets to me lol. The "you're wrong" thing wasn't supposed to be a direct quote from you just a general statement on how people react. As for being a programming guy I took it in HS and that is as far as it went as I found it boring. As for the droprates if you were to distribute the points evenly to me would be like having no points in them at all because they would all have an equal chance of dropping as far as the drop rate theory is concerned. What I meant by my Percentage theory is that if you had more points in one element it has a higher percentage of dropping not a full 100% since we know that isn't true. So you put all your points in Fire Element and it's 80% chance you will get that and 20% chance you will get any of the others. All in all it's still chance. Also I want to say that I had only read the first page of comments before I posted and hadn't seen that a few people had started doing some testing. I think it's better to throw out speculation threads so people can test it themselves. Anyways I'm exhausted haven't slept in 32 hours so I'm pretty much rambling on so my apologies. Also my apologies to Edalya if it seemed I was going after you that was not my intent more of I was just venting about the issue and wasn't trying to attack anyone directly.
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    #76 Sep 08 2010 at 7:48 PM Rating: Decent
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    Docent42 wrote:
    I started a new miqo'te in LL, botanist, born the 4th of the 2nd umbral moon with Menphina as her guardian. Doing the first 3 leves for botanists, she got like 34 wind shards and none others -- I put all my points in wind element.

    My hyur female with 100% points in water in Ul'dah has never seen a single wind shard drop from mining or botany, and only started getting them at gladiator 9ish, when I started killing dodos.

    I'm pretty sure the theory that your elemental affinity affects your DoL shards is true. It doesn't seem to have any important impact on the shards that mobs drop.

    It definitely does affect it, but there is also a very random aspect to it. I've got 248 successful mining attempts logged that show some interesting results. Will post a table up with the results when I get to 500.
    #77 Sep 08 2010 at 8:27 PM Rating: Decent
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    I'm going to throw in my own guess here, i'm a miner (8) and botanist (12)

    I guessing the Area has some sort of chance factor on the tree or mining spot.

    For example. (Value are random, this is to explain the idea)

    Wind: 100
    Earth: 200
    Lighting: 100
    Fire: 400
    Ice: 100
    Water: 50

    These figure is den multiple by ur element ratio

    once again for example

    Wind: 40%
    Earth: 40%
    Lighting: 5%
    Fire: 5%
    Ice: 5%
    Water: 5%

    Which will make the chance

    Wind: 40
    Earth: 80
    Lighting: 5
    Fire: 20
    Ice: 5
    Water: 2.5

    So in this case even tho u have added wind and earth element, chances of earth shard appearing will be higher. If all ur element stats are equal den it will be at the default area's factor.

    * Once again its only my guess




    Edited, Sep 9th 2010 2:27am by Sleepymagi

    Edited, Sep 9th 2010 2:29am by Sleepymagi
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    #78 Sep 09 2010 at 6:52 AM Rating: Decent
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    I guess I'll add some of my data too. Rank 10 Miner, but unfortunately I ranked up on the last deposit of my first test group. Each was 40 successful gathers. All mining was done in Gridania on Grade 1 deposits.

    Sample 1 (Rank 10)
    Fire 53
    Water 25
    Lightning 15
    Wind 16
    Earth 18
    Ice 18
    Total Elemental Stats 145

    Shard drops
    Fire 23
    Water 4
    Lightning 0
    Wind 0
    Earth 5
    Ice 0

    Sample 2 (Rank 11)
    Fire 51
    Water 22
    Lightning 12
    Wind 39
    Earth 15
    Ice 15
    Total Elemental Stats 154

    Shard drops
    Fire 19
    Water 2
    Lightning 0
    Wind 5
    Earth 11
    Ice 0

    Like everyone else, my sample size is small. Too small. Most of the changes might very well be within the random variables for item drops. While Fire, Water and Wind all changed as predicted I lost 3 points in Earth but doubled my shard drops.

    I'll try to post more as I stack more points into Wind. Time to start Botany and Carpentry. ^^

    #79 Oct 06 2010 at 12:10 AM Rating: Decent
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    I can confirm that this works for harvesting. Mob loot tables are unaffected by this but while you are harvesting, such as mining or logging this does improve your ability to get the "element crystal" of your choice. I used to tele to gridania to farm wind. After I tried reallocating my stats into wind ( currently at 50 ) I get nearly 3-4 wind shards for every successful harvest or excavation.

    As it has been said before this doesn't definitively prove anything but the more people that can confirm this the better informed we will be.
    #80 Oct 06 2010 at 12:16 AM Rating: Good
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    wow i remember when this thread was originally posted. how many pages back did you have to go to necro this O.o

    Yes it seems as of now that elements affect harvesting, but not combat.
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    Small Durability and Optimal Rank Guide
    #81 Oct 06 2010 at 12:16 AM Rating: Good
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    2,815 posts
    Wow this got necro'd huh.. No need to 'test' anymore, SE said a while ago that yes elemental stats affect crystals from gathering. The debate is over.
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    #82 Oct 06 2010 at 12:23 AM Rating: Default
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    322 posts
    I have 100 fire, I don't always get fire from gathering anymore. I used to, so...maybe they fixed it.

    Edited, Oct 6th 2010 2:24am by xthunderblazex
    #83 Oct 06 2010 at 12:35 AM Rating: Good
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    577 posts
    RattyBatty wrote:
    Wow this got necro'd huh.. No need to 'test' anymore, SE said a while ago that yes elemental stats affect crystals from gathering. The debate is over.


    This. Also, since when does SE actually tell the players how the game works? I'm not sure how to feel about that.
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    #84 Oct 06 2010 at 12:40 AM Rating: Decent
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    30 posts
    i never put any points in my elemental stats... but i got over 200+ ice shards (=w=)
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