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Status Ailments: A PollFollow

#1 Sep 07 2010 at 10:49 PM Rating: Decent
Do you think SE's use of status ailments from mobs is appropriate at the current settings?
Dodos say it all. SE is out of control.:18 (17.1%)
It's a bit much at times but it's not horrible.:39 (37.1%)
Doesn't matter to me either way.:3 (2.9%)
They're okay, I don't really notice them most of the time.:10 (9.5%)
They're the best part of combat.:14 (13.3%)
lolwut?:21 (20.0%)
Total:105


.....aaaaaaand, discuss.
#2 Sep 07 2010 at 10:52 PM Rating: Decent
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The only one i have an issue with so far is the poison. So many things can poison you its crazy.

No idea how many times i died due to the poison a mob cast on me right before it died. This of course was when I 1st started and now I can handle it but so many new players when this game go live gonna be dying :p
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#3 Sep 07 2010 at 10:52 PM Rating: Good
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It's a bit much at times, (poison is deadly) but i think it makes group combat a bit more exciting sometimes. I think they just need to balance it out a little more.
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#4 Sep 07 2010 at 10:53 PM Rating: Excellent
I went with option #2. Although Dodo's ARE out of control!
#5 Sep 07 2010 at 10:56 PM Rating: Good
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
I went with option #2. Although Dodo's ARE out of control!
Let me second this, I spend 70% of the fight slept.

Ken
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#6 Sep 07 2010 at 11:03 PM Rating: Good
I voted for the first one because I'm finding it a bit irritating. Can't seem to find anything worth fighting (solo or group) that doesn't have its own variety of ugly to lob at you. Or, to be fair, if it doesn't have status ailments to make things ugly, it just beats the sh*t out of you with obscene damage.

I tried killing a dodo last night by myself. I was doing absolutely fine until it slept me. Then it stood there mocking me for a good ten seconds. Then it smashed me in the face for 100 or so damage (I have ~900HP) and slept me again. It did that until I was dead.

Edit to add: The dodos are especially annoying when you're supposed to be the tank. Not at all fun, but everyone wants to fight them....

Edited, Sep 7th 2010 10:04pm by Aurelius
#7 Sep 07 2010 at 11:14 PM Rating: Good
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Voted #2, though dodos do suck at times too...I have a better time soloing them than other classes for a few reasons...their blind doesn't affect spirit dart, only the weaponskill(so it seems), and between stoneskin, shockspikes, & a shield I can handle being slept and recover quickly with cure & another stoneskin if needed

Now that Gridania crap is pretty out of control though, the lalafell I started there definitely ran into the crazy-long poison on starter guildleves...that was rough and there wasn't a thing to do about it at such low levels...

Edit: My view was all from a soloing standpoint...I could see where the dodo moves would be out of control when partying at lower levels that can't solo them...

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 1:19am by TwistedOwl
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#8 Sep 08 2010 at 1:06 AM Rating: Decent
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What's your problem with Dodos?
During sleep your action bar refills, and once you get hit, you wake up anyway.
Which means no loss at all, since the Dodo also lost one "turn" using sleep, so...?
#9 Sep 08 2010 at 1:32 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
What's your problem with Dodos?
During sleep your action bar refills, and once you get hit, you wake up anyway.
Which means no loss at all, since the Dodo also lost one "turn" using sleep, so...?
Sounds good and all except that in party it also sleeps the DD's hitting it or even the mages who came close to cast stoneskin/shockspikes, besides in the case of Gladiators your arm falls (drop guard) and you can't block anymore, hence no more phalanx, together with the TP decay for not doing anything, etc, etc. It can become a nuisance.

Ken

Edit: Typo

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 7:33am by kenage
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#10 Sep 08 2010 at 1:35 AM Rating: Decent
Rinsui wrote:
What's your problem with Dodos?
During sleep your action bar refills, and once you get hit, you wake up anyway.
Which means no loss at all, since the Dodo also lost one "turn" using sleep, so...?


Try fighting them in a group. They tend to drop aggro on the person they put to sleep so you don't get to do anything until the sleep wears off on its own. It's just not a lot of fun to be spending the majority of a fight absolutely unable to do anything because as soon as you wake up, it's your job to try and get the mob to turn back onto you again. And when the mob does, they sleep you shortly thereafter. It's the same with having your TP perma-drained, or slowly watching yourself die from poison when there is absolutely nothing you can do to remedy the situation.
#11 Sep 08 2010 at 6:25 AM Rating: Decent
Dodos gone WILD!
Don't forget that just when your last attack is going to kill the nearly dead creature before it can throw a nasty debuff at you, you naturally miss.
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#12 Sep 08 2010 at 6:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Nothing I hated more in previous FF titles than having every mob immune to every **** debuff - I'm happy at the balance of status ailments in this game so far, I love that we can actually land debuffs consistently on the mobs and they the same on us, adds a little extra element to the fight imo.

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 8:53am by SolidMack
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#13 Sep 08 2010 at 7:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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celinaredfern wrote:
The only one i have an issue with so far is the poison. So many things can poison you its crazy.

No idea how many times i died due to the poison a mob cast on me right before it died. This of course was when I 1st started and now I can handle it but so many new players when this game go live gonna be dying :p


Put some points into Water resistance thats what these are for anyways. It reduces the duration of the poison and it helps resist it. The damage/tick the poison does is not reduced however. With only 30 points in Water resistance you start seeing a big difference.

This is Final Fantasy, use the tools given to you. Respec to Water when you grind anything that poisons you.

PS: The Mole Burrow move is earth based btw. Play smart!
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#14 Sep 08 2010 at 8:55 AM Rating: Good
KindjalFerrer wrote:
celinaredfern wrote:
The only one i have an issue with so far is the poison. So many things can poison you its crazy.

No idea how many times i died due to the poison a mob cast on me right before it died. This of course was when I 1st started and now I can handle it but so many new players when this game go live gonna be dying :p


Put some points into Water resistance thats what these are for anyways. It reduces the duration of the poison and it helps resist it. The damage/tick the poison does is not reduced however. With only 30 points in Water resistance you start seeing a big difference.

This is Final Fantasy, use the tools given to you. Respec to Water when you grind anything that poisons you.

PS: The Mole Burrow move is earth based btw. Play smart!


Even better than micro-managing resistances and dorking around with stats when it comes to the moles is just run away when they burrow. They pop up, you're out of range, run back in and thump him.
#15 Sep 08 2010 at 9:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Wow, Dunes Sheep anyone:)
Then there were the Damsel Flies (poison)
Or if you started in windy the caterpillar things (poison)
And Crabs (def up through the roof, and attack down)

We are still learning the mobs that are best to fight, and strats. It won't be long now until people will target specific mobs, and dodos will suddenly be lolno for parties. But, we will see:).

I still like the options better then 11, at least we are fighting different mobs, and typically an exp party has 2-4 different mobs at any given point in time, rather than crab, crab, crab, crab...
#16 Sep 08 2010 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Is the Dodo Belch all around him or just a frontal cone attack?

I'm guessing the Cockatrice version will have petrify aswel :)
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#17 Sep 08 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
RedGalka wrote:
Is the Dodo Belch all around him or just a frontal cone attack?

I'm guessing the Cockatrice version will have petrify aswel :)


It's a frontal cone. We've managed to avoid it a couple of times but it can be a bit difficult to do when you've got 3-4 melee classes clustered around it, and if it starts charging his belch when you're in the process of letting off an ability with a long activation timer, you can't move out of the way. (Phalanx spam is good for that; TP move with no cooldown that you can use after every block tends to see a lot of use).
#18 Sep 08 2010 at 12:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I hate the minus accuracy everything seems to be able to use on me. What element is that based on?
#19 Sep 08 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Now that Gridania crap is pretty out of control though, the lalafell I started there definitely ran into the crazy-long poison on starter guildleves...that was rough and there wasn't a thing to do about it at such low levels...


^ this +1. The first time I created a character in Gridania I died 4 times from poison trying to complete one of the first leves. After that I deleted that character and started again as a botanist.

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 11:39am by SkinwalkerAsura
#20 Sep 08 2010 at 1:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dodos are fine and a joke in groups. I play a gladiator and my friend is a conjurer, and we chain the buggers no problem. Add my other friend (also a gladiator) and a bit of intelligent placement (triangle formation) and they can only hit 1 of us per ability, and when they sleep us, they simply wake us up right after. (If not, the conjurer hits us with aoe cure to get rid of sleep anyway). Also, that's what Provoke is for.

Nannygoats, however, with their lack of silly debuffs, instead have a RAM attack and a berserk/boost type buff, and getting hit for 500 out of 900 HP is pretty scary :P Got 500 sword XP for my trouble, though.
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#21 Sep 08 2010 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
Docent42 wrote:
Dodos are fine and a joke in groups. I play a gladiator and my friend is a conjurer, and we chain the buggers no problem. Add my other friend (also a gladiator) and a bit of intelligent placement (triangle formation) and they can only hit 1 of us per ability, and when they sleep us, they simply wake us up right after. (If not, the conjurer hits us with aoe cure to get rid of sleep anyway). Also, that's what Provoke is for.

Nannygoats, however, with their lack of silly debuffs, instead have a RAM attack and a berserk/boost type buff, and getting hit for 500 out of 900 HP is pretty scary :P Got 500 sword XP for my trouble, though.


I'm not referring to difficulty. I haven't encountered anything in the game thus far that I would classify as "difficult". I'm speaking strictly in terms of entertainment factor. As I said, there's room for use of status ailments in any MMO, but I think the trick is for the developer to use them judiciously. With my favorite example of the dodo, it seems like half of their attacks involve applying status ailments that slow (or halt) the pace of combat for one or more people. And given that they use their Belch so often, it's difficult to avoid getting tagged with at least something. A mob that applies those kinds of status ailments with such frequency seems to me better suited for later levels when you're more likely to have the tools to deal with them. Similar with the poison from the funguars etc. in the Black Shroud. It's not really realistic for the developer to expect low level characters to be walking around with a stack of antidotes everywhere they go.
#22 Sep 08 2010 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
I soloed funguars pretty okay on my archer 1... and now with a little care my Con 11 can take on dodos. I like the suspense and difficulty added by status ailments. Honestly if they bug you, why are you targeting them? There are different leves to choose from, you CAN avoid some enemies.

But like others said above me, all it takes is some strategy. I don't even adjust my elemental affinities - I just choose my prey carefully and choose my actions likewise.

I agree dodos are tough birds and imo they con too low for their actual strength/difficulty - but once you know that it isn't hard to plan accordingly.
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#23 Sep 08 2010 at 4:25 PM Rating: Decent
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I made lvl 2 lancer by the time I got out of the tutorial, not sure how you'd still only be level 1. Skewer makes them easier, but equipping skewer could be a lot easier as well.
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#24 Sep 09 2010 at 1:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Aurelius wrote:
With my favorite example of the dodo, it seems like half of their attacks involve applying status ailments that slow (or halt) the pace of combat for one or more people

I think 100% of their special attacks are enfeebles, actually.

It's just like FFXI, if you ever played it. Some monsters will have moves that annoy, others will have move that kill. Give the game a few years, and you'll find that most people would rather fight the mob with annoying moves rather than the mob with DEATH SCISSORS.

Annoying moves from the dodo is pretty much just that. Between "Hey look, I put you to sleep! Now I must wake you up!" versus "Hey, I'm a ram, here take this 500 hp damage charge!", I'll take the useless sleep attack any day.

And if it puts the healer to sleep, just cut DPS until he wakes him up, or have a DPS cast sacrifice/cure on the mage. Teamwork will go a long way, and eventually if you get hit so often (aka, you're the main tank) with debuffs, maybe you'll start looking for ways to make yourself resistant/immune to such debuffs, making the dodos even more of a breeze.
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#25 Sep 09 2010 at 3:19 AM Rating: Decent
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at low levels 30-50hp per tic on poison is a bit mean, i mean some HNM's in ffxi arn't that mean but a low level funguar can really hurt you here.
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#26 Sep 09 2010 at 4:04 AM Rating: Decent
Only issue I got is poison... That stuff is too brutal at low levels and especially for those who start in Gridania. Many enemies had annoying debuff spells in FFXI but not even Crawler poison in Sarutabaruta was this dangerous. Sure it could last for a long time but if you had enough MP to throw out a cure (And seriously, it's retarded that Conjurer doesn't learn Cure until Lv.4! That should have been a Lv.1 or Lv.2 spell whether it was given to Conjurer or Thaumaturge.) then you'd at least have a chance or surviving, or you could buy some antidotes from the nearby outpost. Unfortunately that option isn't available anywhere with FFXIV, and you get this poison from enemies you'd be griding at Lv.1 or 2. Once you get the poison you may as well kiss your **** goodbye.
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#27 Sep 09 2010 at 4:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
KindjalFerrer wrote:
celinaredfern wrote:
The only one i have an issue with so far is the poison. So many things can poison you its crazy.

No idea how many times i died due to the poison a mob cast on me right before it died. This of course was when I 1st started and now I can handle it but so many new players when this game go live gonna be dying :p


Put some points into Water resistance thats what these are for anyways. It reduces the duration of the poison and it helps resist it. The damage/tick the poison does is not reduced however. With only 30 points in Water resistance you start seeing a big difference.

This is Final Fantasy, use the tools given to you. Respec to Water when you grind anything that poisons you.

PS: The Mole Burrow move is earth based btw. Play smart!


Yeah thats why i said i had issues at the start. I had changed my element to water for the poison and doesnt cause me issues. As for the moles, the burrow move isnt an issue.
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#28 Sep 09 2010 at 8:56 AM Rating: Good
Docent42 wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
With my favorite example of the dodo, it seems like half of their attacks involve applying status ailments that slow (or halt) the pace of combat for one or more people

I think 100% of their special attacks are enfeebles, actually.


I wasn't clear enough.

Pretend I'm a dodo. I'm attacking you. I've got two options. I can try to smash you in the face with my beak or I can belch on you and slow, blind, or sleep you. Half the time I belch on you.

That's what I mean by "half their attacks". I wasn't referring to half their special attacks, I was referring to the frequency at which they sometimes seem to use those attacks in combat, which I find to be excessive. It's one thing to give them something like Belch with all its associated goodness, it's another thing to tune the mob's behavior so that it spams it. I think it's poor game design to give players a choice between, "kills you really fast" and "irritates the **** out of you."

I'd much rather see, "Hey man, watch out for those dodos...sometimes they do this Belch thing that can put you to sleep or do other stuff to you." Not, "Watch out...dodos spam the **** out of that Belch thing...it's a serious pain in the ***."
#29 Sep 09 2010 at 9:33 AM Rating: Excellent
Grand Master Scribe Olorinus wrote:
I soloed funguars pretty okay on my archer 1... and now with a little care my Con 11 can take on dodos. I like the suspense and difficulty added by status ailments. Honestly if they bug you, why are you targeting them? There are different leves to choose from, you CAN avoid some enemies.

But like others said above me, all it takes is some strategy. I don't even adjust my elemental affinities - I just choose my prey carefully and choose my actions likewise.

I agree dodos are tough birds and imo they con too low for their actual strength/difficulty - but once you know that it isn't hard to plan accordingly.


It's not the standard funguars that are bad. It's the funguars they send you out to ***** with in the first guildleves. Their poison is more potent for some reason and they always travel in a group. Sometimes you get lucky and are able pull one away but usually you have all three beating on you as their BS poison eats at chunks of your HP.
#30 Sep 09 2010 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
That's what I mean by "half their attacks". I wasn't referring to half their special attacks, I was referring to the frequency at which they sometimes seem to use those attacks in combat, which I find to be excessive. It's one thing to give them something like Belch with all its associated goodness, it's another thing to tune the mob's behavior so that it spams it. I think it's poor game design to give players a choice between, "kills you really fast" and "irritates the **** out of you."

I'd much rather see, "Hey man, watch out for those dodos...sometimes they do this Belch thing that can put you to sleep or do other stuff to you." Not, "Watch out...dodos spam the sh*t out of that Belch thing...it's a serious pain in the ***


Think it's with how easy it is to gain TP in this game, 3 hits and you have 1000TP same with the mobs so they can spam the crap outta things.

Dont know if you've Fought an Opo yet? but thier scratch is annoying fortunatly as a archer you can tell when he's about to do it and run away, but the other thing that gets me is wth is with mobs running off and gaining HP its really annoying... they spam a move then run away gain HP then finish you off

Also as with funguars they do give a little warning before they actually use the AoE Poison, "the Forrest Funguar's cap starts to inflate" giving you adequate time to move out of range. never fought a dodo yet though, learned they dont like me so i avoided them.

But the spamming issue is a bit OTT.



Edited, Sep 9th 2010 11:57am by RyderDecree
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