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Crafting - Are actions related to color or not?Follow

#1 Sep 08 2010 at 5:13 AM Rating: Good
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Hey, on the CRP forum I tried to be helpful and posted a bunch of stuff I found by actually tracing my success and fails when performing an action during a specific synth situation. But I thought I'd throw this in the open, as it concerns any craft.

For reference : link

On the colors you get during synthing, most early guides say either:
Quote:

White = Best Success
Yellow = High Success
Red = Average Success
Multicolor = Bad Success

or
Quote:

Yellow = Best Success
White = High Success
Red = Average Success
Multicolor = Bad Success


From my findings (I don't feel like posting all my notes.. it is messy), I simply concluded the following:
Quote:

White = Higher success with Standard
Yellow = Higher success with Rapid
Red = Higher success with Bold
Multicolor = No increase in success


Of course keep in mind that all suggestions from guides, as well as my findings, all say it will increase success, but not guarantee success. First your chances are calculated with your rank against the difficulty of the recipe you try to perform. But it is very likely one of the above quotes will help you increase your chances a little!

One thing is for sure, many people post bad results with the multicolor, so we can assume this is indeed bad and should best be used 'wait' upon, when trying a hard recipe. I have speculated it could maybe be a weak wildcard that maybe gives a small success boost to any type of action or something, but it is really hard to test anything on that matter.

However, I doubt that if what I'm seeing in relation with color to action is correct, or that maybe the simpler best-high-average-bad schema is actually the inner workings of the colors and has nothing to do with action. The trouble is we are all getting results from calculations that have a certain random factor in them + we are working on different recipes of different difficulty and different class ranks, so results differ on a short time. Also the creators of the early guides most likely use a lot of rapid and standard actions to complete their synths before durability decreases to 0, so that at least makes them right on their list, but they didn't include the action variable in their findings.

Looking at the big picture, or when trying the same recipe over and over, you can draw some conclusions :) So I'm asking if our fellow crafters can keep an eye on their results and post findings. Or if you have already tested some variables, can you please post your findings? It would be great to know what the inner workings are, so that you can get the best synth strategy compared to the difficulty of the recipe you're trying to complete.

Thanks

Edit: made some improvements and put some clarifications in there. Also, sorry if my English isn't perfect. I don't speak English natively :)

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 7:38am by ShayAmora
#2 Sep 08 2010 at 5:34 AM Rating: Decent
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I've been curious about this too.
#3 Sep 08 2010 at 8:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm really trying to conduct research to help this cause but my colorblindness is getting in the way. I can clearly see the yellow and multicolor orbs, but the white and red are nearly impossible for me to discern. Could someone please post a screenshot of the two colored orbs?
#4 Sep 08 2010 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
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Surely a constant color is better than blinking colors.

I found that when you a synthing something above your level, Rapid > Wait > Rapid > Wait > Rapid etc. would allow you to create the item even if you had an mostly unstable crystal and failed alot of attempts.
#5 Sep 08 2010 at 8:28 AM Rating: Decent
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I usually do Standard on Red, Bold on Yellow, rapid (or normal depending on if I want quality) on White, and wait on changing 3X, then just do normal if it hasn't changed to solid (succeeds about half of the time).

To each their own though, whatever works :D
#6 Sep 08 2010 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I found that when you a synthing something above your level, Rapid > Wait > Rapid > Wait > Rapid etc

Ya, of course everyone should know rapid synthing is definitely key when doing some difficult recipe.

It's just, I'm trying to use 'Wait' and 'Rapid' accordingly to color and stability and think I see improvements to success with my actions that way. It's like refining that Rapid strategy for hard recipes, but also understanding when and how you can squeeze in a little quality the best way, especially as recipes become easier when you increase in rank. :)

Also maybe Rapid Synthing becomes even more easier if you know for sure you have a higher chance with Standard on White for example, thus skipping Bold (fear of durability loss and no progress gain), doing Standard at the right time, and Rapid/Wait for the rest of the time... Just a thought :)


Quote:
I usually do Standard on Red, Bold on Yellow, rapid (or normal depending on if I want quality) on White, and wait on changing 3X, then just do normal if it hasn't changed to solid (succeeds about half of the time).

To each their own though, whatever works :D

Interesting that you are following a similar approach like me, but use different actions on colors. Hmm, if that works for you I should seriously doubt my own findings as being valid. I surely have lot more testing to do :)

Just for the record, have you tried the way that I described I think the colors are matched as well? Or did you just happen to come across this pattern you described and sticked with that, because it yields good results for you or something?

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 11:24am by ShayAmora
#7 Sep 08 2010 at 9:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Just for the record, have you tried the way that I described I think the colors are matched as well? Or did you just happen to come across this pattern you described and sticked with that, because it yields good results for you or something?


My system was one I have been working on for the past week, and it has been working really well for me now. It could be different combinations/patterns yield different results, or maybe one of us takes a safer approach than the other, etc. Also, I ALWAYS start with a normal synth, rather than a bold or rapid..
#8 Sep 08 2010 at 9:43 AM Rating: Decent
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From what I have seen so far:
White: Seems to have no elemental bias
Yellow: Earth bias (too strong and earth destabilizes)
Red: Fire Bias (too strong and fire destabilizes)
Purple: Thunder Bias (too strong and thunder destabilizes)
Blue: Water Bias (too strong and water destabilizes)
(I am assuming there are two shades of blue, but haven't been able to tell, there should be a light blue for water, and dark blue for ice, but I have never had Ice destabilize)
Green: Wind Bias (Too strong and wind destabilizes)
Multi-color: Strong on all (or multiple) elements, typically cascading failure if left unchecked

Different elemental biases are good for different synths, however, if it gets out of control you can go from getting 60 quality in one bold to lossing 116 (happened to me on one of the easiest synths I did, when I got the synth over 240, and didn't see it destabilized).
#9 Sep 08 2010 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Different elemental biases are good for different synths..


I think you are completely, 100% wrong. :)
If you do the original "tutorial" craft leves, it even says that the colors are indicative of how the synth is progressing. It has no affinity towards an element, just a reflection of the progress of the synth.

Along those lines, I have never encountered colors other than White, Yellow, Red, and Changing, and I think you are just making this a lot more complicated than it needs to be..
#10 Sep 08 2010 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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Yellow = best success with standard in my opinion.
White = best success for rapid, good success with standard.
Red = lower success with standard, sometimes success with bold, DO NOT use rapid when red unless you like losing 30+ durability.

Multi-colored slow color change = standard.
Multi-colored fast color change = bold.

My personal best so far was crafting the local levequest hempen banadanas for Goldsmithing and reaching a 275 quality last night with 42 durability remaining.

Also, I've noticed that if you are successful while using Bold, that your quality begins to significantly improve. My first bold gained 24 quality, 10% progress, -10 durability loss, my second gained 43 quality 5% progress, -1 durability loss, my third bold gained 75 quality, 5% progress increase, no durability loss.
#11 Sep 08 2010 at 10:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Multi-colored slow color change = standard.
Multi-colored fast color change = bold.


I'll have to pay attention to this, usually I just note that its flashing and hit wait immediately.

Oh, and remember to use the guild facilities. This is like getting the guild focus back in FFXI and boosts your craftmanship significantly. (Could do level 6 crafts at level 2)
#12 Sep 08 2010 at 11:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for responses so far. Glad more people feel actions are related to color. Seems at least I was supposedly on the right track before coming to the forums :) .. Now I'm back to the game again to do some refining. Have a lot to test again and notes to take :P
#13 Sep 08 2010 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good
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Wow, I didn't even notice this the few times I've crafted.
#14 Sep 08 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I've been using this guide http://www.ffxivorigin.com/crafting-general/1186-aveliocs-crafting-thread.html
So far i've only failed about 4 of my past 50 synths, and those were because i got unlucky and opened with 3 failed synths which gives sparks and throws off the whole process.
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#15 Sep 08 2010 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Also, sorry if my English isn't perfect. I don't speak English natively :)


Ok. I just wanted to say that your English is very good. It's better than most of the posts that I read nowadays. I'd venture a guess and say that you speak English better than most native English speakers.
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#16 Sep 09 2010 at 5:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm really trying to conduct research to help this cause but my colorblindness is getting in the way. I can clearly see the yellow and multicolor orbs, but the white and red are nearly impossible for me to discern. Could someone please post a screenshot of the two colored orbs?

****, I'm sorry kohbosan. I was planning on posting those screens, but I got all excited about running around in OB again last night and forgot to do it ><. And now I'm at my day job without access to FF :(. Anyway, every synth always starts with White, so maybe if you look at the first color being White, maybe you can identify which is White or Red later on?

Edit: Found screens in other thread : http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=1283999824102117581&page=1

Quote:
Multi-colored slow color change = standard.
Multi-colored fast color change = bold.

Cool you noticed there was a difference in speed. Wouldn't have spotted that by myself I guess :) Was doing local leves yesterday and got quite a lot of multi colored situations. So I was now paying attention to these and I was indeed able to restore the multi color with Standard on almost all of them slow changing ones. Bold however, wouldn't work on fast color change, but neither did standard or rapid: I all failed them. In fact, I got my element unstable 2 times trying to fix the fast color switching. That supports the claim that multicolor is indeed a sign of things becoming unstable, so maybe wait is still a more safe solution. Of course the random numbers are also at work still, so wasn't really a good test over such a short time. Still something to keep an eye on :)


Thanks for pointing out that guide xNightx. This guide was almost spot on compared to yesterday on how things where going for me with White and Yellow. I'm not convinced about the workings on the Red color still; There are too many conflicting reports and when I'm testing myself, results still aren't adding up.

In my early tests some days ago, I was testing Rapid synthing and found it to be best on Yellow, as I couldn't get it to succeed on White or Red (really hard recipe), but it did succeed on Yellow quite a lot of times. Then doing standard on White gave better results than Rapid on White, so after doing it like that (Yellow=Rapid, White=Standard) I was finally able to finish some of these hard synths and even had durability left to risk finishing with a Bold. I found Bold then succeeded a couple of times only if the last color was Red. So that's basically one of the scenarios on how I pulled the color/action thing together at first.

As it seems now though, looking at the guides and experiences so far, I'm starting to assume it is at least more like:

Yellow: Favors Standard
White: Favors Standard
Standard: Favors Yellow
Rapid: Favors Yellow

That leaves me mostly with questions about the workings around Bold, Red color, Multicolor and the Multicolor different speeds. I'm hoping we are able to find some logical patterns soon. Maybe it does indeed turn out to be a simple Yellow=Best,White=Good,Red=Average,Multi=Bad. But then at least I know for sure :)

I'm currently gathering Wood and Wind shards for the rest of this week. Planning to do a long crafting session on some "Log to Lumber" recipes over the weekend. I'll try to track and post the numbers back here. Hopefully that'll turn up some interesting results.

Quote:
Ok. I just wanted to say that your English is very good

Thanks. I usually get schooled over a word or sentence on forums, so I guess I just added that little disclaimer as I was already pro actively fixing some grammar while editing that first post :P
You better not hear me speak English though. It is really bad, lol! When writing I at least can take my time and I guess I should also thank my browser for having a build in spelling check ^^

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 10:08am by ShayAmora
#17 Sep 09 2010 at 6:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh, shouldn't forget about this statement from LordMethos:

Quote:
Also, I've noticed that if you are successful while using Bold, that your quality begins to significantly improve. My first bold gained 24 quality, 10% progress, -10 durability loss, my second gained 43 quality 5% progress, -1 durability loss, my third bold gained 75 quality, 5% progress increase, no durability loss.


I guess this is also the case when stacking Rapid, but it then does that for progress.

Thinking about this, if earlier actions are taken into account, maybe multi color, sparks, and/or instability can be the result of switching actions too often (speculating here though).

Man there are so many variables they could have used :P I am convinced there is a lot to find about the crafting system :)
#18 Sep 10 2010 at 2:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Rapid >> Check for Yellow/White >> Wait >> Check >> Wait >> Rapid

Rinse and repeat, win crafting all day
#19 Sep 29 2010 at 6:15 AM Rating: Decent
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i get the color change and what to use but where on time bar are you stopping it to do these. this would be very helpful
#20 Sep 29 2010 at 6:20 AM Rating: Decent
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kohbosan wrote:
I'm really trying to conduct research to help this cause but my colorblindness is getting in the way. I can clearly see the yellow and multicolor orbs, but the white and red are nearly impossible for me to discern. Could someone please post a screenshot of the two colored orbs?


Hey, I'm colourblind aswell. I've noticed though, the red orb is actually not as bright as the white one. That's how I can tell.
#21 Sep 29 2010 at 6:57 AM Rating: Decent
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There's another wrench in this issue unfortunately:

If you look through the higher level crafting actions, there are actions which increase the impact of your stats (str, dex, int, etc). Unfortunately, without knowing what the impact of stats are (do stats contribute to the success rate of actions, the actual points gained from actions, the chance for instability, etc), its hard to do a controlled analysis of any specific aspect of crafting.

Similarly, my gf and I think that your elemental stats affect crafting with the same element crystal/shard. More complications.
#22 Sep 29 2010 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
kohbosan wrote:
I'm really trying to conduct research to help this cause but my colorblindness is getting in the way. I can clearly see the yellow and multicolor orbs, but the white and red are nearly impossible for me to discern. Could someone please post a screenshot of the two colored orbs?


Screenshot pink
Screenshot white
Screenshot yellow, with crystal chaotic


Edited, Sep 29th 2010 8:43am by Lamnethx
#23 Sep 29 2010 at 8:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Lamnethx of the Seven Seas wrote:
kohbosan wrote:
I'm really trying to conduct research to help this cause but my colorblindness is getting in the way. I can clearly see the yellow and multicolor orbs, but the white and red are nearly impossible for me to discern. Could someone please post a screenshot of the two colored orbs?


pink
white
yellow, with crystal chaotic


Edited, Sep 29th 2010 8:43am by Lamnethx


This is actaully not a very good example, I wasn't able to tell the differences here due to the changes in brightness from night and day in the white/pink screenshots. It makes it really hard to comapare the two brightnesses, which is the only way I can tell them apart.
#24 Sep 29 2010 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
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I find white to have the best success rate for standard or rapid.

I almost always use standard when it is yellow and very rarely fail unless I am severely underranked.

Red has higher success rates for rapid and is the best time to use Bold. Especially when paired with Masterpiece or Epiphany I get a very higher percentage of success when using Bold.
#25 Sep 29 2010 at 10:38 AM Rating: Good
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Well basing my opinion on crafting colors from Open Beta, using Preserve would turn the orb white for 4 turns, white allowed for the highest success rate using any of the synths.... but...

Standards always has the highest success rate, no matter the color.
Yellow seemed to allow rapid to succeed more often, maybe more so then white, but standard still works more on yellow.
Red seemed to allow bold to succeed more often, maybe more so then white, but standard still works more on red.

So if you're looking to use bold or rapid, only use them if it's white or yellow for rapid, red for bold.

Mutlicolored reduced every synth by a good %, but since standard always has the highest success rate, it's your best choice during multicolored, besides waiting in the hopes of it changing to a solid color. (Or waiting till you can use a crafting ability to combat the increased rate of failure during multi-color)


This is what i experienced with the colors in open beta, it by no means is what the colors actually mean, but from what i've observed. Though, I know since preserve, "Temporarily preserves favorable synthesis conditions" white would probably allow for the highest success rate for every type of synth. Seeing as preserve turns the orb white everytime for 4 turns.




Edited, Sep 29th 2010 12:40pm by Nokturnal

Edited, Sep 29th 2010 12:41pm by Nokturnal
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