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#1 Sep 08 2010 at 7:08 AM Rating: Decent
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I thought about this philosophical questions today at school.
When the Japanese people write in there comments "JP only" does it equal to "Black people only" or "Only white people" etc.. ?
Ofc you can't check if someone is black, white or whatever color, it's about the meaning of the words.
Since the language barier cant be taken as a seriouse barrier, it's easy to use and understandable what you write or mean, maybe not in a gramatical correct sense but in a practial use.

I'm not saying anyone is a racist or anything, im just interested in opinions :)

#2 Sep 08 2010 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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IMO its a communication thing. Some Japanese players can speak English well enough and typically they are good at taking "orders" and party play turns out smooth, on the other hand its really difficult conversing with Japanese players that don't know a word of English and to them its not worth the hassle of trying. I've already partied with Japanese players about 3 or 4 times in beta (closed beta included) and communication was good but I've also ran into a few Japanese players asking them for help and they apologetically told me they didn't speak English. I think "JP only" just means they want a Japanese speaker, I'm sure if you're and English speaker but you spoke Japanese fluently (and can type in Japanese) no Japanese party is going to turn you away...I'm sure there's the odd case were racism may be the reason but the same can be said for American players (or any player in the world).

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 9:20am by SolidMack
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#3 Sep 08 2010 at 7:22 AM Rating: Good
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I think I smell the remnants of a dead horse being beaten somewhere, but yes, as SolidMack said its primarily a language issue.
#4 Sep 08 2010 at 7:42 AM Rating: Decent
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A few times in XI if players had "English only" in their search comment, GM's came down on them because of 'racism'. But the "JP only" comments were acceptable because of 'language barrier'. GM's were pretty inconsistent about it. Myself I could care less, the best part of PUG's in XI for me were mixed parties.
#5 Sep 08 2010 at 7:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for your opinions.

Maybe its a cultural thing, i'm from germany if someone here would write anything close to "german only" he would be concidered a nationalsozialist, certainly i have a different impression of signs that state "**nation** only" than someone who lives in a more "closed" enviroment like Japan or NA to some degree.

sadly the mixed up servers seemed to be interesting.

P.s. is "seemed" a word or could you write Seem'd
#6 Sep 08 2010 at 8:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Kaorinite wrote:
Myself I could care less, the best part of PUG's in XI for me were mixed parties.
If you could care less then you are saying you do currently care. You mean you couldn't care less, being that the only way you could care less was if you cared a little, which you would have just said you don't. :)
#7 Sep 08 2010 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
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P.s. is "seemed" a word or could you write Seem'd


Seemed is correct.
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#8 Sep 08 2010 at 8:14 AM Rating: Default
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JP ONLY translated means "NO AMERICANS"

I'm Canadian and i never had problems getting in JP merit parties in FFXI. I just told them I'm Canadian and I'd get an invite lol.

But yeah some of them did it strictly for communication purposes. Lots of them use teamspeak/vent.
#9 Sep 08 2010 at 8:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Apart from the rare occasional Japanese racists (racists appear in every nation/race), "JP only" usually does not mean "Japanese people only." It means "Japanese-speaking people only." It has to do more with communication that actual race.

As long as you speak Japanese, it doesn't matter what country you're from or what color you are, you can be part of the "JP only" groups. :)
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#10 Sep 08 2010 at 8:21 AM Rating: Decent
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JP only means Japanese speaking players only, you could be irish but as long as you speak JP it's fine. If you made a social linkshell(guild) where everyone spoke german on it and some english speaking player wanted to join would you let them? Knowing nobody would talk to him cause of the language barrier and they could basically offer nothing to the shell. (yes I know most germans can speak english, it was an example)

JP's tend to want to be a lot more social while partying, most english players just want their xp and don't care if its 5 hours of total silence. So language barrier for a lot of english speaking players is a non issue, just getting what they want to do done is more important. Quite a lot of JP's don't see it that way, they are quite entitled to play the game how they want to, I hasten to add that on FFXI this died out a long time ago but it will be back with full force on 14 no doubt.

It's not racist, it's a difference in cultural needs while playing.
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#11 Sep 08 2010 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-fJCr2ZGdw

That video might be racist...I'm not sure.
#12 Sep 08 2010 at 8:38 AM Rating: Decent
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this horse has been dead for over 5 years. time to bury it.
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#13 Sep 08 2010 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
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ashuramaru wrote:
OFF TOPIC
Kaorinite wrote:
Myself I could care less, the best part of PUG's in XI for me were mixed parties.
If you could care less then you are saying you do currently care. You mean you couldn't care less, being that the only way you could care less was if you cared a little, which you would have just said you don't. :)


Talk about a dead horse.
#14 Sep 08 2010 at 9:17 AM Rating: Good
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preludes wrote:
JP's tend to want to be a lot more social while partying, most english players just want their xp and don't care if its 5 hours of total silence. So language barrier for a lot of english speaking players is a non issue, just getting what they want to do done is more important. Quite a lot of JP's don't see it that way, they are quite entitled to play the game how they want to, I hasten to add that on FFXI this died out a long time ago but it will be back with full force on 14 no doubt.

This. JPs do tend to want to talk a lot while partying, and so it's hard to blame them for at times wanting an all-JP party so they can chat with everyone while XPing. I know I prefer to be able to communicate well with the rest of the party, though I've been in mostly-JP parties before and it's worked out well other than being left out of conversation (I like being social while XPing, too, much of the time, but as long as the party's rolling along smoothly that's a reasonable place to be).
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#15 Sep 08 2010 at 9:39 AM Rating: Default
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When the Japanese people write in there comments "JP only" does it equal to "Black people only" or "Only white people" etc.. ?


LMAO, I said something like this about another topic.

"JP Only" is like "Black people only" and "English Only" is like "Only white people", though I'll leave it at that since this will turn into a whole other argument.
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#16 Sep 08 2010 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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killersmith wrote:
When the Japanese people write in there comments "JP only" does it equal to "Black people only" or "Only white people" etc.. ?

To me, it's the same as if I wrote "Canadian only", "LS members only", "Friend sonly", "Guys only", "Adult only" or "French only". Each of these 6 groups share something in common with me, so I may want to play with people I have something in common, rather than total strangers.

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#17 Sep 08 2010 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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In FFXI the auto translate function was more then sufficient. JP ONLY is racist. In FFXIV The auto translate again is sufficient at this time in beta.

Against HNM, no its not sufficient. In an EXP party. More then sufficient. If they want only Japanese people in there party to talk, they need a new line other then "JP ONLY"


Edited, Sep 8th 2010 11:53am by Tarutinkler

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 11:53am by Tarutinkler
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#18 Sep 08 2010 at 10:01 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm sorry but in FFXI the auto translate function was more then specific. JP ONLY is racist. In FFXIV The auto translate again is sufficient at this time in beta.

Against HNM, no its not sufficient. In an EXP party. More then sufficient. If they want only Japanese people in there party to talk, they need a new line other then "JP ONLY"


I haven't messed with it yet, but I didn't know the auto-translate function had the capacity to let me shoot the breeze with Japanese players about the baseball game that came on last night or that new album coming out next week.

Can auto-translate help explain small, specific, technical ingame things? I'm sure it can.

Can auto-translate help someone to have a riveting casual conversation in a different language? Don't bet on it.

If they only want Japanese people in their party, or to be more specific, Japanese speaking people in their party, "JP ONLY" is sufficient. I'm not going to try and wager how fluent they are in English, but considering how small of a space you had in FFXI, you couldn't exactly write a paragraph explaining how they'd like to be in a party with people who speak the same language as them for ease of communication. Would you rather them put something like

日本語が必要です or 英語が話せなくて、すみません

in their search comments, and simply think they're being jerks because they won't invite you to a party and you can't read their sign? I don't think I need to go into the subtleties and extremely high context of their language. Simply typing "JP ONLY" could have much more meaning to it than your typical average Joe would think for them.

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 12:17pm by ThePacster
#19 Sep 08 2010 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
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ThePacster wrote:
[quote]If they only want Japanese people in their party, or to be more specific, Japanese speaking people in their party, "JP ONLY" is sufficient. I'm not going to try and wager how fluent they are in English, but considering how small of a space you had in FFXI, you couldn't exactly write a paragraph explaining how you'd like to be in a party with people who speak the same language as them for ease of communication. Would you rather them put something like

日本語が必要です or 英語が話せなくて、すみません

in their search comments, and simply think they're being jerks because they won't invite you to a party and you can't read their sign? I don't think I need to go into the subtleties and extremely high context of their language. Simply typing "JP ONLY" could have much more meaning to it than your typical average Joe would think for them.

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 12:04pm by ThePacster


Actually yeah, I would rather they simply use their own text and simply respond with a (I'm sorry, I don't speak English) when asked to group. The thing is that hey, if it's about being social with people who speak your own language then it's better to make that statement personally rather than hanging up the sign. That way it's personal. You and I can't talk, and not becoming a culture vs culture issue. It's quite valid to prefer to speak with people who speak the same language as you. There's just a right way and a wrong way to do it.
#20 Sep 08 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Decent
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no, what theyre trying to say with their horrible english, is that they speak japanese only.
its a warning to all non-jp speakers. thats all.
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#21 Sep 08 2010 at 10:37 AM Rating: Decent
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JP ONLY translated means "NO AMERICANS"

I'm Canadian and i never had problems getting in JP merit parties in FFXI. I just told them I'm Canadian and I'd get an invite lol.

But yeah some of them did it strictly for communication purposes. Lots of them use teamspeak/vent.



trust me, Japanese don't favor Canadian over any other western race..
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#22 Sep 08 2010 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
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I think the point isn't the words that these certain Japanese individuals use, it's the action behind it.

I, personally like to party with everyone.

And in some cases in FFXI I have bent over backwards to join JP parties.

So I find it strange that someone would want to limit themselves, whether it be because of racism, 'efficiency' or something else entirely.

I honestly think 'JP ONLY' stemmed out of the influx of English speaking n00bs in FFXI, who were throwing blind invites and who seemed brash and rude in kind. We invaded their game. But all of that is over. We're all on the same playing field now.

Lastly, I think Linkshells are a great way to be discriminating in who you choose to play with, without telling the world, 'JP ONLY.'
#23 Sep 08 2010 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good
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I understand JP only to mean, Japanese speaking only, and I completely understand it if nobody in the group has sufficient english. Its also alot more logical of a reason than assuming half the japanese game playing population being awful racists against the people who they never see, playing characters in a game.
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#24 Sep 08 2010 at 12:55 PM Rating: Decent
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oh, and just to let you in on the "word on the street" here .. the people here have been making comments about learning English since FF14 is going to be launched with English speakers at the same time.
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#25 Sep 08 2010 at 1:01 PM Rating: Decent
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I was in a Japanese LS on XI and had a rather long conversation with them about this. They all seemed to fall in three categories regarding the use of JP only:

1) I don't speak any English so I don't want there to be a language barrier between the party members and myself.

2) I do speak some English, but translating what I want to say takes some time and may hinder the party.

And the last one is kind of a grouping of negativity (and was the smallest group; 4 people out of ~35)
3) I don't like English speaking people/NA players are dumb

Over all, they expressed a want to play with people from all over the world. The biggest concern was hindering the party as a whole by not being able to communicate properly.
#26 Sep 08 2010 at 1:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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From what I understand of it, it's mostly about the ability to communicate with people in parties rather than some kind of racism or xenophobia. Now I have seen some JP players that were real @ssholes about it. I even ran into a JP player once that had taken the time to translate and write out in their bazaar and search comment (in english) "If you cannot speak japanese then you are useless to me." But that was 1 player in like 6 years so...


~Edit: Also is it even a horse anymore? We've beaten this corpse so much you'd think it would be unrecognizable by now as any kind of animal.~

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 3:43pm by SickleSageKiroh
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#27 Sep 08 2010 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
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SickleSageKiroh wrote:
From what I understand of it, it's mostly about the ability to communicate with people in parties rather than some kind of racism or xenophobia. Now I have seen some JP players that were real @ssholes about it. I even ran into a JP player once that had taken the time to translate and write out in their bazaar and search comment (in english) "If you cannot speak japanese then you are useless to me." But that was 1 player in like 6 years so...


~Edit: Also is it even a horse anymore? We've beaten this corpse so much you'd think it would be unrecognizable by now as any kind of animal.~

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 3:43pm by SickleSageKiroh


If anything it might be a horrible resurrected zombie given all of the new players who aren't really accustomed to playing with Japanese people. I'd like to iterate though, the militant JP ONLY are a minority as I have grouped with many a JP party with no problems.
#28 Sep 08 2010 at 2:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I've had JP parties before and I've met a lot of really fun JP players. I'm really glad the servers will be integrated again personally. I always like to think I'm improving someone's opinion of me when I heal them for no reason (which I do, a lot). It was pretty funny actually, I was on OB last night really late (during what I can only assume was prime time for JP players) and I cured some guy. He must have thought I was JP because he wrote "arigatou", I chuckled to my self and replied "Sure, np".
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#29 Sep 08 2010 at 5:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Threx wrote:
Apart from the rare occasional Japanese racists (racists appear in every nation/race), "JP only" usually does not mean "Japanese people only." It means "Japanese-speaking people only." It has to do more with communication that actual race.

As long as you speak Japanese, it doesn't matter what country you're from or what color you are, you can be part of the "JP only" groups. :)


^This

In FFXI, I got TONS of "JP Only" parties, because my linkshell mate spoke fluent japanese (he spent about 10 years there as a child). They didn't mind that I was a NA player, or that I didn't speak Japanese, because he could relay commands to me, and I was POLITE.
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#30 Sep 08 2010 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
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If you could care less then you are saying you do currently care. You mean you couldn't care less, being that the only way you could care less was if you cared a little, which you would have just said you don't. :)


Or they were correctly using the sarcastic colloquial saying that is in extremely common usage.

Mostly I just really wish people would stop "correcting" something that is already correct, whether they're trying to be cute or clever or whatever else.
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#31 Sep 08 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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^This

In FFXI, I got TONS of "JP Only" parties, because my linkshell mate spoke fluent japanese (he spent about 10 years there as a child). They didn't mind that I was a NA player, or that I didn't speak Japanese, because he could relay commands to me, and I was POLITE


Totaly agree. I can tell you of a few people who would bable fish copy/paste comments just to get partys. In the end it was more about if you were polite and showed rudimentry knowladge on how your class was played. Once you built a good reputation for yourself invites were never a problem no matter what the language.

I am a healer at heart. When I started leveling my ninja sub I was lucky enough to fall in with a mixed static of JP and Aussies. I almost always stop to rez and heal if I see someone in trouble. A few of the guys remembered me and invited me to there static. They literaly expected me to just stand there wacking stuff and not tanking. Just skilling ninjutsu spaming elements. If you are kind to others then what goes around comes around full circle at some point.
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#32 Sep 08 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Good
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When first playing XI this was a constant. Mainly because I think most NA players didn't have a great handle on the game. A lot of NA players on my server didn't want to play their jobs according to their roles. WHMs wanted to be in combat RDM never wanted to heal or back up heal. Tanks always let people die or run.

Again this was when the game released for PC back then. As time went on I was fortunate to party with many JP players. Even ones who said JP only because of my reputation and who I knew. (Not that I was super popular)

But there we're some that were racist. :(

The other reason JP Only I saw is because a lot of NA players could be obnoxious in general. Ruining the good time for everyone. As the game aged it got better. The language barrier makes it harder because it's not that they're dealing with anything different we deal with in other MMOs it's just they can't understand whats going on some times.

Just my 0.2 cents on my experience.



Edited, Sep 8th 2010 7:41pm by sparkytenks
#33 Sep 08 2010 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm.. i never seem to encounter problem with the JP Only comment.

My japanese friend told me some japanese play put that comment up meaning they speak Japanese only. I joinned a jp only grp b4 and they keep apologizing for speaking in their own language (as if they felt i was being outcasted). Have to admit that there are some japanese that do meant "JP only" in a racism way but they are very rare or have encounter a**hat english speakers.
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#34 Sep 08 2010 at 6:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I heard Samuel L Jackson likes to play FF mmos, and that he likes "English Only" parties.

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 8:58pm by ghosthacked
#35 Sep 08 2010 at 7:18 PM Rating: Default
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I think the inclusion of EU version of the games has actually shed new light on the situation. When has anyone ever told you FRENCHONLY or GERMANONLY. It is DEFINATELY a cultural thing and not a language thing.

Clash of lifestyles is the main cause if you ask me. We know the Japanese like to do things differently, and of course they don't like the way we do it. In case you haven't noticed, the Japense are very single minded people. (don't turn this into a fanboy debate) Why do you think they shunned the Xbox 360 in Japan? Because it's an American console. They're just not willing to try new things that don't have a solid foundation built right under their feet.

Of course it's important that I don't speak for EVERY Japanese person, of course they're not like that. But there's definately a significant group out there that are like that.

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 9:19pm by ditx
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#36 Sep 08 2010 at 7:42 PM Rating: Good
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There are a lot of reasons, most often it is because of one or more of the following:
*The player is not confident in their English speaking abilities or does not want to bother.
*The player has had bad experiences with English players or thinks they suck.

Occasionally, it is because:
*The player dislikes foreigners
*The player sees all English as Americans, which some Japanese don't like because of the base in Okinawa and other political reasons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Forces_Japan

Quote:
While 73.4% of Japanese citizens appreciate the mutual security treaty with the U.S. and the presence of the USFJ,[5] a portion of the population demand a reduction in the amount of U.S. military bases in the region.[6] Many of the bases, such as Yokota Air Base, Naval Air Facility Atsugi and Kadena Air Base, are located in the vicinity of residential districts, and local citizens have complained about excessive aircraft noise as well as various crimes perpetrated against local civilians.[7][8][9]

From 1952 to 2004, there were approximately 200,000 accidents and crimes involving U.S. soldiers, in which 1,076 Japanese civilians died. Over 90% of the incidents were vehicle or traffic related.[10] According to the U.S.-Japan Status of Forces Agreement U.S. personnel have partial extraterritorial right, so in most cases suspects were not arrested by Japanese authorities.[10] In 1995, the abduction and rape of a 12-year-old Okinawan schoolgirl by two U.S. Marines and one U.S. sailor led to demands for the removal of all U.S. military bases in Japan. Other controversial incidents include helicopter crashes, the Girard incident, the Michael Brown Okinawa assault incident, the death of Kinjo family and the death of Yuki Uema. In February 2008, a 38-year-old U.S. Marine based on Okinawa was arrested in connection with the reported rape of a 14-year-old Japanese girl.[11] This triggered waves of protest against American military presence in Okinawa and led to tight restrictions on off-base activities.[12][13] Although the accuser withdrew her charges the U.S. military court marshalled the suspect and sentanced him to 4 years in prison under the stricter rules of the military justice system.[14] U.S. Forces Japan designated February 22 as a Day of Reflection for all U.S. military facilities in Japan, setting up a Sexual Assault Prevention and Response Task Force in an effort to prevent similar incidents.


Edited, Sep 8th 2010 10:11pm by Osanshouo
#37 Sep 08 2010 at 7:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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ghosthacked wrote:
I heard Samuel L Jackson likes to play FF mmos, and that he likes "English Only" parties.
In official answer to "JP onry" the western community will incorporate to their search messages:
"English mother@#%^er!!! do you speak it!?!?!

Trying to explain or understand the issue is taking yourself on a trip to the very deeps of their culture and as I heard once:

"Culture is like a pool of garbage and gold, you can find a lot of good and worth things, but you have to make yourself dirty with the rest of it"

I'm mexican living in Japan, married to a wonderful Japanese girl and after few years of living here and my fair share of JP onry, I can honestly say that I understand as much about them as I understood the very day I reached to Japan.

They are cryptic, and have a lot in their minds, let me show you an example:

English speaker says: {Party}{experience points}{do you need it?}
English speaker thinks: have to use the auto-translation, this guy is Japanese.
Japanese speaker says: {No thank you}{I can't speak English}
Japanese speaker thinks (some or all of the following):
- it would be hard to ask.
- it would be hard to express my opinion politely
- I have had some bad experiences with English speakers before
- I don't like the system of replace members I just want an static party for a couple of hours.
- Does he really understand my search comment? (job/time/camp restrictions, they are usually very specific)
English speaker says: {Japanese} {/welcome}!!, {Party}{do you need it?}
English speaker thinks: we can manage with the auto-translate, I will make it work.

Then maybe the Japanese guy accepts or maybe he will just ignore you, I can't tell what happens from there but the fact is that s/he was trying to reject the party, most of us, however will understand his/her first comment as insecurity due the language barrier and try to be friendly and cheering to dissipate that insecurity, unintentionally pushing the issue.

If one of his/her fears came to happen s/he will flag the whole thing as a "bad experience with English speakers" and be more reluctant to accept English parties in the future.

That's what I have been able to understand about them in this time and I'm sure these issues will arise with FFXIV again, one thing is different this time around though, we all start at the same time, it will prevent the advantage that they had in FFXI that let some of them grow elitist.

Sorry for the long post.

Ken

P.D. Please ignore the elitist/racist crowd they are just stupid people, every country/culture has its fair share of them.

Edit:typo

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 7:50am by kenage
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#38 Sep 08 2010 at 7:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've had JP players who would outright refuse to even reply to me and I've had JP players who didn't mind at all so long as I was willing to use the auto-translate to convey my points to them.

JP Only means different things to different people. I've always read it as "I don't speak any English" and proceeded under that assumption. Maybe they speak a little, maybe none at all, maybe they're willing to work with me, maybe they tell me to **** off... I give it a shot. What's the worst that can happen, I get ignored or told to go away and I'm no worse off than I started. Best case, I get a party.
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Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
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