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[Solved <3] Question for the tech savvy agian~Follow

#1 Sep 08 2010 at 8:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hey guys me again, with a couple questions for the techies that were so helpful last time.
(I was asking help on vid card upgrades the other day.) Let me show you why I have been looking into getting a new card:

FFXIV ran just fine the first time I played. But after the first time it crashed, I found the game to be stuttering every 1 second, very regularly. I thought this was just the server lag, but then i saw that it ran smooth if i went to very minimum graphics quality. I ran the benchmark today and sure enough, same lag spikes, and now i have a graph to represent it with..
= Graph from Benchmark. = Note the regular crash spikes, this is when the game gives little 'jerks' constantly while playing.

So I looked some things up, and tried the following solutions.
1 : Completely reintstall video drivers, making sure to wipe the traces clean in safe mode.
2 : Defragment HD, in safe mode (somehow 24% refuses to defragment)

The only other possible cause i found in my searching, is heat problems, causing the card to throttle itself. So i got some temperature monitoring software and had a look. Are these temperature readings normal? Seems like high temps to me, and the flame icons don't help! = Temperature readings = (btw i usually run with the tower panel open because the fan started kicking in really hard while gaming about a year ago.)

Thoughts? Suggestions? Thanks.

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 10:49pm by RattyBatty

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 3:07am by RattyBatty
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#2 Sep 08 2010 at 8:48 PM Rating: Excellent
RattyBatty wrote:

The only other possible cause i found in my searching, is heat problems, causing the card to throttle itself. So i got some temperature monitoring software and had a look. Are these temperature readings normal? Seems like high temps to me, and the flame icons don't help! = Temperature readings =

Thoughts? Suggestions? Thanks.



Running that close to 100 isn't good at all.

For the free fix, just open everything up and clean out all the dust, and then try and rearrange the wires so they don't block the airflow. Make sure all your fans are running.

If that doesn't work you may want to look into some aftermarket cooling solutions, because that is running blazing hot.
#3 Sep 08 2010 at 8:51 PM Rating: Good
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Yes, those do appear to be on the high side. My advice would be to check all your case fans and make sure they haven't bombed on you. If not, then look into getting better/more fans to bring that temp down some. Also, if your card is overclocked, drop it back a little at a time till you see an improvement. May take a lot of tweaking, but such is the art of overclocking...good luck!
#4 Sep 08 2010 at 8:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thing is there has never been any dust in there, amazingly. I always would try spraying around in there and come out with a grand total of 1 little dust bunny usually. It's spotless in there.

As for the fans. I know the one at the top of the tower is running like mad, and all the others i can see seem to be turning... So I don't really know what to do now?

I'm using the ANTEC design tower BTW, it seems to have plenty of ports and fans, I just don't know how my PC is so hot! Good to know it's definitely too hot though, now i'm a little alarmed.

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 10:54pm by RattyBatty
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#5 Sep 08 2010 at 8:52 PM Rating: Good
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Those temps are a bit high, especially the CPU temps.

My laptop GPU sits around 78C-80C, cores are roughly 45C-50C. This is with a cooling pad.

My PC GPU hits about 82C, cores sit around 45C-52C. Air cooled, stick fans.

Does your system not have fan sensors or did you turn your fans off?

Edit: These are ingame settings. At idle my GPU sits around 67C and my cores are at 27C-32C

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 4:54pm by Raolan
#6 Sep 08 2010 at 8:55 PM Rating: Good
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well i noticed in FFXIV + Case open your cpu fan speed is 0 rpm, but case closed its working and lower cpu temp.
#7 Sep 08 2010 at 8:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have never done any custom tweaking like overclocking, turning fans off, messing with BIOS stuff etc.

I did notice all the fan speeds but one seem to be at 0, but figured it's the software not detecting it.

I just did a visual check inside the tower. Rear fan, Top fan, CPU fan, and PSU fans all spinning. Now Whether they're pushing enough air, I can't really tell..

GPU fan... well it's definitely hitting my fingernail when i poke inside. But again whether it's blowing enough I'm not sure what's normal.

The fan that shows as "3000+" in the 'tower closed' shot is definitely the one at the top of the tower, that's the one that kicks in like mad when i close the tower, to the point I need to use headphones to block out the droning. All other fans ARE spinning, don't know why they're at '0'. Not sure if they're kicking into high gear or just always idle speed though.

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 11:00pm by RattyBatty
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#8 Sep 08 2010 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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what graphics card do you have and what cpu?
#9 Sep 08 2010 at 9:01 PM Rating: Good
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Geforce 8800 GTX - Intel Core 2 quad 2.40 - 4 gig ram
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#10 Sep 08 2010 at 9:04 PM Rating: Good
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The rear and top fan are designed to push air out. Without any extra fans bring air in, you need to make sure your case has decent ventilation, which it doesn't look like that case has. Also, where is your PC located, on a desk or in a cubby?
#11 Sep 08 2010 at 9:06 PM Rating: Good
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RattyBatty wrote:
I have never done any custom tweaking like overclocking, turning fans off, messing with BIOS stuff etc.

I did notice all the fan speeds but one seem to be at 0, but figured it's the software not detecting it.

I just did a visual check inside the tower. Rear fan, Top fan, CPU fan, and PSU fans all spinning. Now Whether they're pushing enough air, I can't really tell..

GPU fan... well it's definitely hitting my fingernail when i poke inside. But again whether it's blowing enough I'm not sure what's normal.

The fan that shows as "3000+" in the 'tower closed' shot is definitely the one at the top of the tower, that's the one that kicks in like mad when i close the tower, to the point I need to use headphones to block out the droning. All other fans ARE spinning, don't know why they're at '0'. Not sure if they're kicking into high gear or just always idle speed though.

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 11:00pm by RattyBatty


In order for any of the system fans to be monitored by that software, they would have to be plugged into the motherboard. If they are plugged into the motherboard, then I would make absolutely sure they are working, and if not, have them replaced.
#12 Sep 08 2010 at 9:08 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
In order for any of the system fans to be monitored by that software, they would have to be plugged into the motherboard. If they are plugged into the motherboard, then I would make absolutely sure they are working, and if not, have them replaced.


Not all boards monitor fan speeds other than the CPU fan.
#13 Sep 08 2010 at 9:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Your cpu is most likely the problem, which would cause your case to hot-box. GPU's can handle more heat than a cpu. I wouldn't run your pc much until you get it fixed or you may cause permanent damage. If your processor came with a "stock" (meaning it came with the processor) heat sink and ram, I would suggest that you explore a better solution. If you need help, post your complete specs up and I bet someone will know what you need to cool it down.

If all of your fans are spinning, then the readings you are getting about some fans missing, might be because the plug ins are in the wrong spot on the motherboard.

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 11:10pm by Parsalyn
#14 Sep 08 2010 at 9:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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On my desk in open air. How would i get more air in without opening the case? The front lower 2/3 of the case is all air intake w/filter mesh btw, but no fan pushing air in.

Also I remembered while looking inside that my tower has the HDs and PSU in an isolated section, and it seems that the HD temperatures are fine, which means the upper compartment with the MOBO is the problem area for heat.

Also if the CPU is the problem, would that explain the spikes of performance drop I'm seeing in the game?
I guess this would mean i need to get the heatsink completely replaced? I know that's a pretty risky operation, that can easily be badly installed resulting in instant fryadge.. yikes.

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 11:12pm by RattyBatty
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#15 Sep 08 2010 at 9:09 PM Rating: Good
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Raolan wrote:
Quote:
In order for any of the system fans to be monitored by that software, they would have to be plugged into the motherboard. If they are plugged into the motherboard, then I would make absolutely sure they are working, and if not, have them replaced.


Not all boards monitor fan speeds other than the CPU fan.


I know this, I'm merely stating that they have to be plugged into the board to be monitored. :)
#16 Sep 08 2010 at 9:15 PM Rating: Good
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I dont want to sound alarmist but if you are approaching that close to 100C, that is extremely dangerous. Sugar coating the issue will only end up costing you a whole new PC in the end. TJMAX is 100C which is considered as high as you can go without frying the CPU. Even hardcore OC shouldnt go above 80C full load to be safe. I would reccomend flashing the mobo bios, buying a new case and pretty much doing everything you can possibly think of to correct it. Something, somewhere is completely smoking your comp. It should be addressed asap

Yes replacing the CPU fan is an excellent idea and isnt difficult at all. follow the instructions here and it will be easy going: http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 11:17pm by KingRaul
#17 Sep 08 2010 at 9:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Another thing that I would check is that the heat-sink for the processor is properly seated. If you can grab ahold of it and it wiggles around, then you have problems.
#18 Sep 08 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Good
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If that filter is dirty it will seriously block airflow. Also, make sure your wires and cables aren't spread all over the place since they can restrict airflow as well. Zip-ties are your friend.

Opening the case will actually decrease airflow, since the internal fans will just suck air in from outside of the case and blow it back out, instead of pulling in cold air across the components like they are supposed to do. The only real advantage is that an open case will let the hot air escape on its own, but the fact that you have that much hot air building up indicates an airflow problem.
#19 Sep 08 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Good
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.
= PC specs =

Running windows XP. Using the ANTEC tower linked a couple posts up.
Anything more?

Quote:
If that filter is dirty it will seriously block airflow. Also, make sure your wires and cables aren't spread all over the place since they can restrict airflow as well. Zip-ties are your friend.

Filters are wide open and clean, as for internal wires, there's almost nothing in there, inside that tower is wide open space. the vid card stands lonely.

I do notice now a layer of dust has formed behind the CPU fan blades, and the heatsink it sits on. Is it safe to airblow that off?

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 11:26pm by RattyBatty
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#20 Sep 08 2010 at 9:21 PM Rating: Good
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It looks like something is upping your Vcore voltages in the temps pics. There may be a background application you have running or an option on the mobo that may be needing to be disabled
#21 Sep 08 2010 at 9:22 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
It looks like something is upping your Vcore voltages in the temps pics. There may be a background application you have running or an option on the mobo that may be needing to be disabled

Any idea how I go about eliminating suspects?

Quote:
I would reccomend flashing the mobo bios

By this I assume you mean completely wiping and 'reinstalling' it. How should i go about that safely?

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 11:23pm by RattyBatty
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#22 Sep 08 2010 at 9:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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It is a lot to read through, but someone with similar problems posted this.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/244766-29-core-quad-overheating-overclocking

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 11:27pm by Parsalyn
#23 Sep 08 2010 at 9:27 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
It looks like something is upping your Vcore voltages in the temps pics. There may be a background application you have running or an option on the mobo that may be needing to be disabled


Less than a .1 voltage variation is normal and wouldn't effect temps that much.


Yes, blasting the **** out of your system with a can of compressed air is ok, just make sure you do it in short bursts and stop when the can starts to get cold. Also, make sure you hold the can upright and do not shake it, staying about 6 or so inches away from the components.

I probably don't have to mention this but I will anyway. Make sure your system is off and unplugged. Giving it time to cool off beforehand is also a good idea.
#24 Sep 08 2010 at 9:28 PM Rating: Good
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On the newer intel processors there is a turboV (it may be something else but there is an option that increases CPU speed. Ill check when im near my comp) that should be disabled if you are OCing which it doesnt look like you are. Im not very familiar with that specific cpu mobo combo but there should be alot of info about them both.

This is the winXP bios flash of a p5k only. not deluxe or anything depending what you have. This is where you will get the bios but double check your exact set up is selected before you install it:

http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us

It actually could be a big dust bunny right in the middle of your fans too. Still the GPU seems high as well. Canned air is a good start though



Edited, Sep 8th 2010 11:34pm by KingRaul
#25 Sep 08 2010 at 9:38 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
This is the winXP bios flash of a p5k only. not deluxe or anything depending what you have. This is where you will get the bios but double check your exact set up is selected before you install it:

I used their online tool to tell me which model I'm using and direct me to a downloads page. I downloaded the most recent "BIOS" secion download, and its a .ROM file, not sure what to do with that. Also tried downloading the "bios update tool" but the .exe just opens a command window and closes immediately..

Kinda lost at this point about the bios update.


Edited, Sep 8th 2010 11:39pm by RattyBatty
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#26 Sep 08 2010 at 9:40 PM Rating: Good
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If your motherboard has EZ flash, all you do is open that file to one of your folder in one of your drives. Just remember where you put it and select it in the EZflash menu in bios. If not, that same site should have a download for an installer that you can use and will give you more instructions on how to use it

A quick search says it does indeed use EZ flash. Its a very nice tool that asus has

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 11:42pm by KingRaul

http://www.pcbg.co.za/threads/7496-ASUS-P5K-BIOS-Flash-Guide

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 11:43pm by KingRaul

and remember to do 'Restore Defaults' in the bios before you do it

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 11:44pm by KingRaul
#27 Sep 08 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Good
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Ok back from updating BIOS, thanks for the link, it explained ho to do it with NTFS.
Seems to have gone over with no noticeable problem. But PC still running hot so doesn't look like it was the problem. What else can i try to do right now? Any more software/system related things i could check on?
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#28 Sep 08 2010 at 11:11 PM Rating: Good
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Oh god you guys, now I know why the inside of my tower was so free of dust.

IT WAS ALL IN MY CPU HEAT SINK!

When i mean in i mean 'IN', it was rammed between all the heat sink blades and a nice thick blanket behind the fan. I pulled enough (burnt looking) dust out of that thing to fur a small rat! Here's the new numbers and benchmark graph (same scene)! Also benchmark score went from ~3300 to ~2300 (lower is better right?). Not to mention my PC fan is whisper quiet for the first time in years. Temp has dropped by 40C all around. Wow.

Sorry for taking all your time for something as stupid as dust, but without your input I wouldn't have given that heatsink a REALLY closer look.

~BLANKET RATEUPS and <3 all around~


EDIT: Oddly however although the benchmark no longer jerks, I still seem to be rubber banding like crazy in the game... Hmmm. Still need a new graphics card?

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 1:19am by RattyBatty
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#29 Sep 08 2010 at 11:21 PM Rating: Decent
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I thought I also read somewhere that taking panels off your case reduces internal airflow and can actually causes heat problems to be worse. Can anyone confirm/deny that?
#30 Sep 08 2010 at 11:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I thought I also read somewhere that taking panels off your case reduces internal airflow and can actually causes heat problems to be worse. Can anyone confirm/deny that?


The intake ports and exhaust fans are placed in a way to pull outside air across the board, by removing a panel you change the airflow and take cool air away from the areas it needs to be.
#31 Sep 09 2010 at 12:27 AM Rating: Good
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Update : I booted up another monitoring software while playing the game.

What I have noticed is that every time the game stutters (still), there's a spike in HD use, which seems to correlate with a spike in Network use. But also that I stutter a lot less in town than in the noob zone. So could this be server related? I have been lucky to hit 'green' connection streaks tonight while this was happening though.

Any suggestions on what this might be all about now?

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 2:28am by RattyBatty
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#32 Sep 09 2010 at 12:37 AM Rating: Good
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Raolan wrote:
Quote:
I thought I also read somewhere that taking panels off your case reduces internal airflow and can actually causes heat problems to be worse. Can anyone confirm/deny that?


The intake ports and exhaust fans are placed in a way to pull outside air across the board, by removing a panel you change the airflow and take cool air away from the areas it needs to be.


I run with my case open, and have for a long time. I never have heating issues. My gpu got up to 61C once ...
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#33 Sep 09 2010 at 12:46 AM Rating: Decent
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More spikes outside of the city sounds backwards, unless the newb areas are excessively populated and the city is dead.

Is it still stuttering every second, or less frequently now.

You're not going to like it, but I would uninstall and reinstall. Yea, I know, but it sounds like it's either having trouble accessing the client software or there's a problem with the software. Could also be having a HDD issue.

Keep in mind I honestly don't know if this will solve the issue, but following a logical troubleshooting process, that's the next step.

Heat can play **** with a system and if your system's been running that hot for awhile, the problem could be anything.
#34 Sep 09 2010 at 1:05 AM Rating: Good
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~FIXED!~

Man that benchmark program is a troubleshooting gem.

It was **** "Spybot" hogging up my disk, or overly monitoring the file activity or w/e it does. Second i checked the taskbar and unloaded it, BOOM smooth as ice! It is RIDICULOUSLY better now. No problems whatsoever except the odd HDD loading spike.

Hope all this helps others in the future!

*cranks graphics back up*

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 3:08am by RattyBatty
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