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FFXIV Classes - Am I missing something?Follow

#1 Sep 09 2010 at 4:55 AM Rating: Good
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The more I play the beta, the more I begin to wonder: What is the purpose of having a game with a major focus on DoL and DoH classes - classes whose main purpose is to obtain/create items - without having an equally large focus on making money and obtaining gear for your fighting classes?

While I am well aware that FFXIV is not FFXI, nor should it be, I would like to point out a major difference that made FFXI make sense when FFXIV does not.

FFXI focused on advancing fighting classes and obtaining gear for these classes as you advance. Crafting was a secondary optional "hobby" that helped you make money and obtain the gear to advance your fighting classes. This system worked very well in my opinion.

It seems to me that both goals of advancing fighting classes and obtaining gear have been de-emphasized in FFXIV. Gear can be used by any class at any level, so there is no longer the motivation to get class X to level Y so you can use that really cool item Z. That's fine with me, but then why is there increased emphasis on DoL/DoH classes if they don't really supplement your DoW/DoM classes all that well? Sure, they make you items and money, but you don't seem to need items and money all that much except for doing more crafting. It seems to me that you will eventually get to a point where you are a master craftsman with a whole bunch of money but there is nothing worth buying. So what is the point?

I just got my fisher class to rank 4 and already it seems like I've mastered the mini-game and have no real goal to work towards. All I am trying to say is that I really hope that by the time the real game gets released there are (1) way more items to craft/gather/obtain, including unique and very rare items, (2) some serious end-game content and goals for both DoW/DoM as well as DoL/DoH, and (3) more dependencies/interactions between the DoW/DoM group of classes and the DoH/DoL group of classes.

What are your thoughts?
#2 Sep 09 2010 at 5:05 AM Rating: Decent
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SE came up with the notion that casual gamers want to craft their way to endgame, and they really seem to believe that...
#3 Sep 09 2010 at 5:06 AM Rating: Good
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I suppose it was SE's attempt at making the game world feel more like... well an immersive world. You have people who only want to gather and supply ingredients/materials to people who only want to craft armor and weapons who in turn shuck out their goods to the people who only desire direct combat. It's a good idea in theory I guess, but the current implementation is messy.

And even though you can wear any piece of gear at any level as any class, you don't get the full benefit if you're below the "optimal level" or aren't the "favored class(es)". It's slightly more motivation to wear the appropriate gear in addition to wearing stuff with the stats you want I guess.
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#4 Sep 09 2010 at 5:11 AM Rating: Good
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And even though you can wear any piece of gear at any level as any class, you don't get the full benefit if you're below the "optimal level" or aren't the "favored class(es)". It's slightly more motivation to wear the appropriate gear in addition to wearing stuff with the stats you want I guess.


Well sure, that is true, but it doesn't come anywhere close to the feeling you get when you can FINALLY equip that awesome weapon you got when you killed that Notorious Monster 10 levels ago.

Instead its just "Oh, I've been using this for the past 10 levels but now it works better than before."

Imagine what it would be like if you could use ALL of your class's abilities at level 1, and they just got more powerful as you leveled up.

Not nearly as cool :(



Edited, Sep 9th 2010 7:13am by amiller90
#5 Sep 09 2010 at 5:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Assuming crafting is gonna be like FFXI towards endgame, DOH will be as much needed as a gladiator, i think though SE is giving every player the opertunity to level a craft and make it more benifitial so everyone will want to craft(remember it also gives you exp for your physical level as well as rank exp on the job), plus with the repairs needed for jobs if you pick a main class i.e gladiator armourer and goldsmith are probably gonna be more up your street( in the sence of repairs to armour).

myself have chosen botanist carpenter to go with my archer possible i will need black smith also to make arrow heads and shafts, (then again weaver too lol for fletchings) **** it... lol

But quite possibly its just so that when your experiencing surplus on your main DoW you have something to fall back on.

not everyone will become a DoH or a DoL but its there just like crafting was in ffxi if you want to do it or not.

I know what you mean though, making it a class of its own, is a bit excessive, hate how you have to change class in order to craft etc, not really on the fly at all, unlike ffxi where you could just stop use a crystal and craft, or stop use a sickle and harvest.

but like you said its a new game, SE is trying out new things, they will work over time, just alot of tweaks and polishing before its set in stone.

again for anyone coming from FFXI WOW Liniage Runescape and all the other million MMO's its a case of old dog new tricks. we know what we like from our Predesessors SP? but it is a chance to learn a new way of doing something.

i think the 1st year is gonna be the hardest for this game as with any other weather or not SE has done a good thing or a created a terrible monster that will haunt them forever on boards like this. its either gonna be a sucsess or fail into the depths of Hade's only to emerge every 20 years or so at a convention with a member of the public saying "it's not gonna be like FFXIV is it?"

like with fishing i will assume when your fishing up the "big one" in the future, they will add some new moves maybe even boat fishing in a party, 1 fished 2 Lancers harpooning and someone else has a net, co-operation is the key to land it. (that actually would be pretty cool) looseing HP as it thrashes about. (yeah might actually want a mage with you :P)


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#6 Sep 09 2010 at 5:24 AM Rating: Default
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SE came up with the notion that casual gamers want to craft their way to endgame, and they really seem to believe that...


Do you really think you are going to see many level capped Cooks, Leather-workers, Blacksmiths running around Dynamis-type endgame stuff?
#7 Sep 09 2010 at 5:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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like with fishing i will assume when your fishing up the "big one" in the future, they will add some new moves maybe even boat fishing in a party, 1 fished 2 Lancers harpooning and someone else has a net, co-operation is the key to land it. (that actually would be pretty cool) looseing HP as it thrashes about. (yeah might actually want a mage with you :P)



OH SHI- that would be awesome. SE IMPLEMENT THIS NOW!


Better yet, Carpenters should be able to build the fishing boats for the fishers to go out on.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 7:29am by amiller90
#8 Sep 09 2010 at 6:27 AM Rating: Decent
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what about a cook? you might be out there for a while looking for that big fish ^^
#9 Sep 09 2010 at 6:30 AM Rating: Good
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SE mentioned in a interview a few months back that they had an idea for endgame crafting and NM farming and so on.

The idea was, you don't camp for items. since monsters would never drop armor and weapons and the likes, you camp NM's for crafting materials to make your good items. I think their explenation was you for example killed a dragon that required a full alliance of folks and you use the skin of the dragon to make some nifty armor.

In my opinnion they can also expand on that for deciple of land and say there is mining nodes inside the dragons cave or something that, gives super rare ultra ore that the dragon might have been protectin.
#10 Sep 09 2010 at 6:44 AM Rating: Decent
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only have one thing to say...."Beta"

I mean who knows im hoping more things happen myself but it is beta after all. Just keep those fingers crossed and hope for the best is where im at right now.
#11 Sep 09 2010 at 6:45 AM Rating: Good
One of the main things I wanted to try it in open beta was leveling a character without leveling a combat class. I started as a miner, and have been leveling 4 other DoH classes. I enjoyed doing a little mining and crafting in closed beta, but now having leveled exclusively using only DoL and DoH, I can see people, possibly myself, doing the same in retail. Just because you don't find it fun and engaging doesn't mean someone else won't.
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#12 Sep 09 2010 at 6:49 AM Rating: Decent
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To be honest I don't understand the point in the original post.

When SE started leaking out information about them DoL/DoH looked to be viable choices as classes because they were made appear benefitial in (end game) parties. From what we can see in the many Betas there is no reason what so ever (so far) to make it so unless you think of what many consider to be a weapon/armour degradation gonne crazy (too fast) but maybe this is what they meant when they said DoH/DoL would help parties.

Personally I was looking foward to something like botanists increasing party damage to herbkin, miners to earthkin and variation thereoff.

The main issue here and I think I've tried to adress it previously on other posts is that most players go into gathering/crafting for the econommic revenew and since all purses will be emptied at release these players are not really crafting gear to provide DoW/DoM.

If I'm correct then this will all change when the game is released and crafters/gatherers will be much more appreciated.
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#13 Sep 09 2010 at 6:50 AM Rating: Good
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The game is not even in retail release - it isnt even out yet, and already people are commenting on endgame.

Honestly, I actually despair at gamers today (/em shakes walking stick).

WHy cant you enjoy the journey - why cant you play the game rather than see the game as a nasty interlude before doing what you really want which is endgame. Why cant people just go and play more instant gratification games rather than trying to make epic games like this more like every other piece of trash out there.

After over 30 years as a gamer - this will probably be my last sojorn - everything nowadays has to have been solved before the game is even released. I give up!

I will leave the gaming to you kids after this one, the glory days have gone.
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#14 Sep 09 2010 at 6:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
When SE started leaking out information about them DoL/DoH looked to be viable choices as classes because they were made appear benefitial in (end game) parties. From what we can see in the many Betas there is no reason what so ever (so far) to make it so unless you think of what many consider to be a weapon/armour degradation gonne crazy (too fast) but maybe this is what they meant when they said DoH/DoL would help parties.


This is not entirely true. They made it seem conveinent to have someone who could pop into their DoH and repair your weapon real quick - they never made any indication (that I have seen) that a Fisherman was going to go toe to toe with a giant baddie.


Quote:
Just because you don't find it fun and engaging doesn't mean someone else won't.


This. Some people love getting engaged in the economy more then playing a melee or a caster class - this is what some people want to do. There's a HUGE upcoming in other MMOs of people who just want to sit around, make stuff and make money. They want to be wealthy - or find enjoyment from micro-managing sales, purchases, etc. Once all that is taken care of - then they might do some stuff on the side.

Besides, there's no reason to speculate of the full usefulness of things before the retail release and full implementation of the game. If you think that DoH/DoL are just going to be sideline things, I think SE has something else in mind.

#15 Sep 09 2010 at 7:12 AM Rating: Good
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HallieXIV wrote:
The game is not even in retail release - it isnt even out yet, and already people are commenting on endgame.

Honestly, I actually despair at gamers today (/em shakes walking stick).

WHy cant you enjoy the journey - why cant you play the game rather than see the game as a nasty interlude before doing what you really want which is endgame. Why cant people just go and play more instant gratification games rather than trying to make epic games like this more like every other piece of trash out there.

After over 30 years as a gamer - this will probably be my last sojorn - everything nowadays has to have been solved before the game is even released. I give up!

I will leave the gaming to you kids after this one, the glory days have gone.


What's wrong with a little speculation? Sure it can get out of hand sometimes and overly nitpicky, but otherwise a little bit of discussion is a good thing instead of just blindly taking what's handed to you.
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#16 Sep 09 2010 at 7:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
When SE started leaking out information about them DoL/DoH looked to be viable choices as classes because they were made appear benefitial in (end game) parties. From what we can see in the many Betas there is no reason what so ever (so far) to make it so unless you think of what many consider to be a weapon/armour degradation gonne crazy (too fast) but maybe this is what they meant when they said DoH/DoL would help parties.


This is not entirely true. They made it seem conveinent to have someone who could pop into their DoH and repair your weapon real quick - they never made any indication (that I have seen) that a Fisherman was going to go toe to toe with a giant baddie.


I went looking for old information and came upon this: Dengeki - Classesa and Beta Interview/

Quote:
- In a party, a Miner can "let fly some pebbles." Does this mean that pebbles will be their only weapon?

A: Currently, that is the case, but we may prepare something else for them to use as well.

- Can they only use pebbles to weaken ore-based enemies?

A: We are investigating ways for them to use items instead of weapons -- for example, using aqua regia (a corrosive compound that dissolves gold) on a gold-based enemy to weaken it.

- You say a Miner can bring "additional income" to the party. Does this mean a single Miner will benefit all members?

A: Yes, that's right. It will add to the treasure pool, and we are still discussing this, but we want to make it so more Miners increases the benefits. However, the trade-off is that battles will be more difficult.


I could be guilty of reading too much into as one usually finds what he's looking for but the idea I got was that (at least Miner in this case) DoL/DoH would be a viable choice for parties.
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#17 Sep 09 2010 at 7:35 AM Rating: Decent
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I could be guilty of reading too much into as one usually finds what he's looking for but the idea I got was that (at least Miner in this case) DoL/DoH would be a viable choice for parties.


Stuff like this would be sweet - and if you're getting a miner to tag along, chance are this miner may have leveled one or more DoH classes and can help fixing damaged weapons throughout the duration of the party.
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#18 Sep 09 2010 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
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The reason there are more DoH and DoL classes than combat classes is because the game's economy depends on all the gathering and crafting capabilities being in place when the game launches. This means all gear types have to be able to be made on Day 1 whereas they can release new combat classes whenever they want.

Another way to think of it is; how do you think people would feel about the game if there were no Armorer class? Heavy armor combat classes would have no gear. Compare that to if there were no Crossbow class at release. Which is game-breaking? Same with gathering classes. You have to be able to mine, forest, harvest, etc. on Day 1.
#19 Sep 09 2010 at 8:12 AM Rating: Decent
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I think people are missing the big picture here.

Crafting in this game is much more important than FFXI.

You do not buy some wood, and a sheepskin and make a polearm.

You buy a handle, blade, nugget, grip, and weight, ALL made buy someone else, each with multiple ingredients themselves, requiring specific sub skills within the class and THEN make your polearm. Nearly everything you make requires multiple components made by other crafts using multiple components. Arrows and bolts were the closest thing in FFXI, but even those you didn't have to make the shaft THEN make the arrow.

Finished items are going to be expensive. Crafting is going to be a huge factor in this game. Looking at FFXI, everyone is going to be buying the most optimal equipment possible, and probably only +1 +2 stuff once the more difficult levels come around. Turn around won't be an issue. Selling will, I don't think we're going to see a typical AH, it would be very difficult to set one up efficiently while taking armour degradation into account.
#20 Sep 09 2010 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
Gross speculation and irrelevant silliness aside, I don't really see the issue. FFXI's itemization was a failure of a system from anything other than a hardcore player point of view. It most definitely doesn't fit with a game geared towards a more casual audience. I suppose that if that's what you're accustomed to...a game where the acquisition of gear was such a focus and such an ordeal...that a game where the focus is on the growth of your character might be a bit of a jarring experience. Let me assure you, everything will be okay.

Combat classes have not been de-emphasized. Crafting classes have simply been fleshed out a lot more than you see in other games. I knew people in XI who had millions upon millions of legitimately earned gil and not a single job above 70. They loved to craft, they loved to play the AH, and instead of an xp counter their success was measured in gil.

Seems to me that the issue isn't one of advancement. It's an issue of player perspective. People in this thread are thinking and talking in terms of classes. SE is thinking and designing in terms of one character. My gladiator is my highest ranked class but he's also a rank 8 miner and blacksmith, rank 6 armorer and goldsmith, and if I do end up buying the game, gathering and crafting will receive as much attention as anything else. The last thing I would want to do is willingly put myself at the mercy of the playerbase for having basic services provided to me.
#21 Sep 09 2010 at 8:39 AM Rating: Default
I'm sure late-game will have specific pieces of gear for classes.
The reason anyone can wear anything is so, when you change weapons to do something (such as mine or cook or whatever), you dont HAVE to equip a whole new gear set. This also allows you to try out other classes without buying 100% new gear.
You can wear gear that isn't optimized for you, but at least you won't be NAKED.
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#22 Sep 09 2010 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
San d\'Orian Royal Heir Edalya wrote:
One of the main things I wanted to try it in open beta was leveling a character without leveling a combat class. I started as a miner, and have been leveling 4 other DoH classes. I enjoyed doing a little mining and crafting in closed beta, but now having leveled exclusively using only DoL and DoH, I can see people, possibly myself, doing the same in retail. Just because you don't find it fun and engaging doesn't mean someone else won't.


+1 this. My favorite job so far is Botanist.

Quote:

You buy a handle, blade, nugget, grip, and weight, ALL made buy someone else, each with multiple ingredients themselves, requiring specific sub skills within the class and THEN make your polearm. Nearly everything you make requires multiple components made by other crafts using multiple components. Arrows and bolts were the closest thing in FFXI, but even those you didn't have to make the shaft THEN make the arrow.

Finished items are going to be expensive. Crafting is going to be a huge factor in this game. Looking at FFXI, everyone is going to be buying the most optimal equipment possible, and probably only +1 +2 stuff once the more difficult levels come around. Turn around won't be an issue. Selling will, I don't think we're going to see a typical AH, it would be very difficult to set one up efficiently while taking armour degradation into account.


^ and +1 this. If you haven't done much crafting you haven't seen it. I was looking to make some arrows and to be completely "in house" I would need:

Carpenter, which I have been leveling.
Weaver, which I will be leveling since it meshes well with Botanist.
Blacksmith
Goldsmith for certain arrowheads.

Now, if you flip the perspective on this you have:

I need to level Pugilist for Second Wind, Lancer for Ferocity, Archer for Hawk's Eye, Marauder for Disorient, Gladiator for Rampart etc etc.

Same grind just a different perspective.
#23 Sep 09 2010 at 10:01 AM Rating: Decent
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^ and +1 this. If you haven't done much crafting you haven't seen it. I was looking to make some arrows and to be completely "in house" I would need:

Carpenter, which I have been leveling.
Weaver, which I will be leveling since it meshes well with Botanist.
Blacksmith
Goldsmith for certain arrowheads.

Now, if you flip the perspective on this you have:

I need to level Pugilist for Second Wind, Lancer for Ferocity, Archer for Hawk's Eye, Marauder for Disorient, Gladiator for Rampart etc etc.

Same grind just a different perspective.


Wonder if they'll introduce a sort or pt synergy system like in FFXI for this sorta thing, be good for LS's equip etc, or they just expect us to form our own party and pass on the item to the next member.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 12:01pm by RyderDecree
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#24 Sep 09 2010 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
RyderDecree wrote:
Quote:
^ and +1 this. If you haven't done much crafting you haven't seen it. I was looking to make some arrows and to be completely "in house" I would need:

Carpenter, which I have been leveling.
Weaver, which I will be leveling since it meshes well with Botanist.
Blacksmith
Goldsmith for certain arrowheads.

Now, if you flip the perspective on this you have:

I need to level Pugilist for Second Wind, Lancer for Ferocity, Archer for Hawk's Eye, Marauder for Disorient, Gladiator for Rampart etc etc.

Same grind just a different perspective.


Wonder if they'll introduce a sort or pt synergy system like in FFXI for this sorta thing, be good for LS's equip etc, or they just expect us to form our own party and pass on the item to the next member.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 12:01pm by RyderDecree


Maybe, though I kinda like the idea of crafting parties cranking like an assembly line.
#25 Sep 09 2010 at 10:35 AM Rating: Good
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HallieXIV wrote:
The game is not even in retail release - it isnt even out yet, and already people are commenting on endgame.

Honestly, I actually despair at gamers today (/em shakes walking stick).

WHy cant you enjoy the journey - why cant you play the game rather than see the game as a nasty interlude before doing what you really want which is endgame. Why cant people just go and play more instant gratification games rather than trying to make epic games like this more like every other piece of trash out there.

After over 30 years as a gamer - this will probably be my last sojorn - everything nowadays has to have been solved before the game is even released. I give up!

I will leave the gaming to you kids after this one, the glory days have gone.

Quote:


What's wrong with a little speculation? Sure it can get out of hand sometimes and overly nitpicky, but otherwise a little bit of discussion is a good thing instead of just blindly taking what's handed to you.



I believe he was not referring to the speculation. But the fact that this game is just under two weeks till retail release, and already we have guides. There are guides on crafting, fishing, how to build up certain class. I'm in boat with him, I was hoping to have a game with varying characters each being different and unique, but it appears the min/maxing is already happening. Can't wait to see something like this.

Party Leader:"LF archer with marauder and pug skills",

Random Player: "Hi I'm an archer with thau and lancer skills",

Party Leader: "**** off, everyone knows that's a crappy build".
#26 Sep 09 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Excellent
crazyorc wrote:
Quote:
HallieXIV wrote:
The game is not even in retail release - it isnt even out yet, and already people are commenting on endgame.

Honestly, I actually despair at gamers today (/em shakes walking stick).

WHy cant you enjoy the journey - why cant you play the game rather than see the game as a nasty interlude before doing what you really want which is endgame. Why cant people just go and play more instant gratification games rather than trying to make epic games like this more like every other piece of trash out there.

After over 30 years as a gamer - this will probably be my last sojorn - everything nowadays has to have been solved before the game is even released. I give up!

I will leave the gaming to you kids after this one, the glory days have gone.

Quote:


What's wrong with a little speculation? Sure it can get out of hand sometimes and overly nitpicky, but otherwise a little bit of discussion is a good thing instead of just blindly taking what's handed to you.



I believe he was not referring to the speculation. But the fact that this game is just under two weeks till retail release, and already we have guides. There are guides on crafting, fishing, how to build up certain class. I'm in boat with him, I was hoping to have a game with varying characters each being different and unique, but it appears the min/maxing is already happening. Can't wait to see something like this.

Party Leader:"LF archer with marauder and pug skills",

Random Player: "Hi I'm an archer with thau and lancer skills",

Party Leader: "**** off, everyone knows that's a crappy build".


Reading that just made me a little sad.
#27 Sep 09 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:

Combat classes have not been de-emphasized. Crafting classes have simply been fleshed out a lot more than you see in other games. I knew people in XI who had millions upon millions of legitimately earned gil and not a single job above 70. They loved to craft, they loved to play the AH, and instead of an xp counter their success was measured in gil.

Seems to me that the issue isn't one of advancement. It's an issue of player perspective. People in this thread are thinking and talking in terms of classes. SE is thinking and designing in terms of one character. My gladiator is my highest ranked class but he's also a rank 8 miner and blacksmith, rank 6 armorer and goldsmith, and if I do end up buying the game, gathering and crafting will receive as much attention as anything else. The last thing I would want to do is willingly put myself at the mercy of the playerbase for having basic services provided to me.


Historically, when armies moved out to war, it wasn't just the troops. They took entire complements of cooks, horse masters, blacksmiths, laundresses, medics, anything that could support camp life. Some officer's wives even followed the drum, along with their children.
With armor degradation in the works, we may need people along in parties just for their abilities to fix our gear. We may need fishers to catch that NM. Who knows... retail can't come soon enough for me, just so we can stop speculating on stuff that's 30-40 'levels' down the road, and going off on wild tangents on 'maybes.'
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#28 Sep 09 2010 at 11:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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You need to think back to FFXI in the first ~20 levels. There was like ONE set of 'does something worthwhile' gear and that was the beetle harness set (lvl..23?). Everything before that was just more DEF like lizard set.

People need to remember we are all doing beta in this extremely simple window of character growth, lvls 1-20. I'm sure that by lvl 50, there will be a ton of 'omg gotta have that' gear to craft, levequest or hunt for, just like FFXI.

Quote:
I was hoping to have a game with varying characters each being different and unique, but it appears the min/maxing is already happening. Can't wait to see something like this.

Party Leader:"LF archer with marauder and pug skills",

Random Player: "Hi I'm an archer with thau and lancer skills",

Party Leader: "**** off, everyone knows that's a crappy build".

And the value of soloable MMOs reveals itself. (for the people that compain about it being stupid)



Edited, Sep 9th 2010 1:51pm by RattyBatty
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#29 Sep 09 2010 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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I look at it this way. Some leves require you to have a mining skill or crafting skill right. The reward might be money and chain mail or some other item. SO a Gladiator and Miner group up. The Gla escorts the miner to the location to keep aggro of or what not while the miner well uhm mines.

You both complete the leave and get the reward. I think this will happen more often when high level leves become available for that require a high rank DoH. The DoW players that havn't leveled those classes will seek those players out.

It makes sense I just hope it is executed well.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 2:32pm by sparkytenks
#30 Sep 09 2010 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
Just cause you can wear any old armor doesn't mean you will want to - There are benefits to wearing armor made for your class in the correct level range.

Also as of yesterday my highest leveled class became goldsmith. I NEVER thought I would see a DoH class outpace my DoM class... but it happened. I can't say I mind it either - since I am already proving pretty useful to my LS mates who can get cheaper jewelry and a less sucky lvl 1 thm scepter from me.

Soon I'll be able to make a lvl 14 thm scepter and I'll be even more popular.

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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#31 Sep 09 2010 at 12:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Soon I'll be able to make a lvl 14 thm scepter and I'll be even more popular


and then your deleted >< but at least you'll know what to do to get that far again
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#32 Sep 09 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
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EmotionBlues wrote:

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Just because you don't find it fun and engaging doesn't mean someone else won't.


This. Some people love getting engaged in the economy more then playing a melee or a caster class - this is what some people want to do. There's a HUGE upcoming in other MMOs of people who just want to sit around, make stuff and make money. They want to be wealthy - or find enjoyment from micro-managing sales, purchases, etc. Once all that is taken care of - then they might do some stuff on the side.


I'm one of them. I spent far more time in FFXI crafting and trading than doing other things.

I was looking forward to FFXIV for the expanded crafting systems. Initial impressions were good, with the crafting classes being a positive step, and what I've seen of the recipes encouraging cross-class cooperation.

Sadly, the trade system is completely broken. There seems to be no feasible way to trade in any way that is efficient enough to get required materials or sell crafted items on the scale required.

I've not yet cancelled my pre-order, but unless SE does something soon, I can't see myself sticking with the game.
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#33 Sep 09 2010 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
RyderDecree wrote:
Quote:
Soon I'll be able to make a lvl 14 thm scepter and I'll be even more popular


and then your deleted >< but at least you'll know what to do to get that far again


yeah I consider this more practice than anything. Next time hopefully I'll have a better sense of what to level up on and where to get crystals etc.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#34 Sep 09 2010 at 3:19 PM Rating: Default
PSU had the best AH system. search for an item. results come up. find what you want. visit their store, go the the counter, buy the item. maybe find other stuff you'd like. then leave.
mix between AH and retainer system. In PSU, your 'retainer' was your robot buddy who stayed in your room and sold stuff for you and crafted stuff.

PSU = phatasy star universe. the game sucked in other ways but the bartering system rocked. customizing your store was fun
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#35 Sep 09 2010 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
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crazyorc wrote:
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HallieXIV wrote:
The game is not even in retail release - it isnt even out yet, and already people are commenting on endgame.

Honestly, I actually despair at gamers today (/em shakes walking stick).

WHy cant you enjoy the journey - why cant you play the game rather than see the game as a nasty interlude before doing what you really want which is endgame. Why cant people just go and play more instant gratification games rather than trying to make epic games like this more like every other piece of trash out there.

After over 30 years as a gamer - this will probably be my last sojorn - everything nowadays has to have been solved before the game is even released. I give up!

I will leave the gaming to you kids after this one, the glory days have gone.

Quote:


What's wrong with a little speculation? Sure it can get out of hand sometimes and overly nitpicky, but otherwise a little bit of discussion is a good thing instead of just blindly taking what's handed to you.



I believe he was not referring to the speculation. But the fact that this game is just under two weeks till retail release, and already we have guides. There are guides on crafting, fishing, how to build up certain class. I'm in boat with him, I was hoping to have a game with varying characters each being different and unique, but it appears the min/maxing is already happening. Can't wait to see something like this.

Party Leader:"LF archer with marauder and pug skills",

Random Player: "Hi I'm an archer with thau and lancer skills",

Party Leader: "**** off, everyone knows that's a crappy build".


That is exactly what I meant. The fun of discovery has gone because everyone will data mine to identify exactly the combination of skills a player must have rathr than working it out for yourselves. The game is not out and already we know exactly how to beat it.

The solutions are already up on Zam, the guides are all over the internet and the community laps them up because no-one wants to get left behind the levelling curve in the race to endgame.

As a result, the game is an annoyance that gets in the way of the endgame gear grind. This is in my opinion exactly what SE are trying to avoid - levelling IS the game, hence they have been forced by the community to implement things like surplus exp - people just wont play the game they want them to play. Everyone is in so much of a rush!
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#36 Sep 09 2010 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
I think it's going to have a different feel when the game has been out a little while and there's an actual economy. It'll be a lot more fun striving for riches then, and there will be many more rare and enviable things to strive for.

Also, in the newbie areas, it's annoying that you can't just nab that node you're by while you're off zapping mobs, but at higher levels it won't be so bad, because if you're training up your monster zapping class, you probably won't have near the skills needed to gather that node anyways. The classes will become more specialized and far apart than now.

If they implement a search function that allows for an actual economy...
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#37 Sep 09 2010 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
That is exactly what I meant. The fun of discovery has gone because everyone will data mine to identify exactly the combination of skills a player must have rathr than working it out for yourselves. The game is not out and already we know exactly how to beat it.

The solutions are already up on Zam, the guides are all over the internet and the community laps them up because no-one wants to get left behind the levelling curve in the race to endgame.

As a result, the game is an annoyance that gets in the way of the endgame gear grind. This is in my opinion exactly what SE are trying to avoid - levelling IS the game, hence they have been forced by the community to implement things like surplus exp - people just wont play the game they want them to play. Everyone is in so much of a rush!


Perhaps, but the solo implimentation also provides a balancing factor here. So long as things don't become too group dependant, players will be free to solo untill they find a closer knit group that's willing to work together with them, rather than force mold them into something they don't like.

THat's the joy of small communities vs PUGs, and really has very little to do with gameplay of ANY MMO. Playing Aion you should know that, honestly. As long as you're in a guild that accepts you, you can spec however you like. Forums may critisze you for it, but that's irrlevant if you're still getting to kill the same bosses you would have with a group that treats you less like a persona and more like an employee.

SE's actually doing this part at least right with the solo play. Sides, with the way these abilities work out, I'm pretty sure most players are going to want to level a lot of different classes and have different combinations anyways, as nothing is really set in stone here. I'm actually more encouraged to play multiple classes here than I was to play multiple jobs in FFXI, because of the mixing and matching rather than the simple Main/support system which by comparison is much more rigid.
#38 Sep 09 2010 at 5:39 PM Rating: Good
Yeah I plan on playing however I want and I'll help people I like who want to do the same and I expect they'll help me... fun times.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#39 Sep 09 2010 at 7:28 PM Rating: Good
HallieXIV wrote:
That is exactly what I meant. The fun of discovery has gone because everyone will data mine to identify exactly the combination of skills a player must have rathr than working it out for yourselves. The game is not out and already we know exactly how to beat it.

The solutions are already up on Zam, the guides are all over the internet and the community laps them up because no-one wants to get left behind the leveling curve in the race to endgame.

As a result, the game is an annoyance that gets in the way of the endgame gear grind. This is in my opinion exactly what SE are trying to avoid - levelling IS the game, hence they have been forced by the community to implement things like surplus exp - people just wont play the game they want them to play. Everyone is in so much of a rush!


I'll be with those playing their own characters, and it doesn't concern me whether or not it's something other people suggest. I definitely won't be rushing to endgame, either (though, after playing XI on and off for so many years and never getting to even 50, it would be nice to reach endgame in XIV). Thaumaturge/Alchemist is already fun, and I'm going to throw in a heavily wind- and fire-based Conjurer. If possible (when it happens), I'd like to throw in some Musketeer, too!
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#40 Sep 09 2010 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
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The only reason every class can wear every gear is that SE wants peoeple to be able to switch classes at a whim without needing to carry around half a dozen full sets of gear. This way, if you want to switch to a lvl 10 job to level with your lvl 10 friend, you don't need to take off all your lvl 50 gear. And when you've got a much higher physical level, it will actually be feasible to go back to low levels wearing high level gear, since you will have such a huge bonus from your base stats.
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