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Anyone else not sold on an opening class?Follow

#1 Sep 11 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
This happened on ffxi's release for me, because all we had were the basic 'warrior thief monk whm blm rdm' if i remember correctly. Not exactly the most exciting or personable classes, but they got the job done as release classes.

In FFXIV we've got more basic classes without their own 'twist'. Just normal stuff. No flashy class (smn, sam, etc) or quirky class (brd, pup, dnc) or classes with a twist (drk, blu, sch).
This isn't a problem, these are the startign classes, and they're almost always very 'basic' in design. It's how mmos are and im fine with it.

I'm just wondering if some players found their <3 class yes, and if some other players are still waiting for their <3 class to come along.

In ffxi my <3 class was drg. LNC in this game is more like a warrior with a polearm and some tricks. He's a basic class, compared to, say, Sam or Nin or even Drg.



Before people start flaming (again), this is not a thread about the following:
"what a crappy start for an mmo!"
or
"These classes SUCK!"
or
"this GAME sucks!"
or
"SE isnt learning from past mistakes blabla"

or whatever. I don't believe any of these things regarding this topic.
Stay on topic and don't flame due to you reading this as a 'complaint' thread. It's not.
It's too bad I spent most of this thread knocking down misunderstanding flamers before they post, but it needed to be done.

Edited, Sep 11th 2010 3:52pm by DirectorCobbs
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#2 Sep 11 2010 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
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Nah, it's true. They're all fairly generic. The skills vary slightly, such as Marauder getting more AoE skills and Lancer getting more defensive or boost-oriented skills, but in the end they're all pretty similar.

I do find myself being more attached to the Archer and Pugilist, but I think at release I'm going to focus almost entirely on the crafting classes, specifically blacksmith and tanner. They're not only bloody annoying to level without leves, they're the bottleneck for gear for most classes. And I intend to outfit myself while leveling combat classes.
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#3 Sep 11 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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Yup, I agree with the OP. For me the major downside is the THF replacement (or THF/MNK hybrid, w/e) just doesn't feel very thiefy. The only classes that really have a distinctive feel to them at the moment are those in DoH an DoL, imo.

But, to be fair, in FFXI the starting classes were all fairly similar until you got to be higher level and they gained the truly unique job abilities and traits. All level 1-10 melee classes were basically the same with different weapons. I expect we'll see more defining characteristics at higher levels (or at least I hope so).
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#4 Sep 11 2010 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
Well you can see all the abilities for classes, they're well documented on almost every ffxiv fansite by now. Obviously they are bound to change, but you can catch the gist of what the classes are like.

Also, I'm curious as to how new classes can be implemented. Lnc already has the tp increasers and 'taps', pug has the sneak attack and evasion abilities, and so forth.
When the samurai-ish class comes about, what will he be able to do? Do 2 TP attacks at once? He's gotta be more technique-bound than lancer, but lancer already has the TP buffs.

I'm curious as to what SE will come up with, because the current classes already have a wide range of the abilities that were in FFXI.
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#5 Sep 11 2010 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
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I also agree with you. The starters seem very bland. But (and I keep telling myself this...) the potential is amazing. I'm planning to start as a Lancer, purely for my love of FFXI's Dragoon. After 20 or so levels your Lancer, guy X's Lancer and mine could be worlds apart in uses. Yours could be an all-out killing machine, with skills only made to deal dmg and lower evasion so you can hurt them more. Guy X's could be a "pure" Lancer, no other job's skills only Lancer abilities. Mine could be a "healing Lancer" with skills designed to help keep my party and my own HP in the green.

Do all 3 work? I dunno. In theory, sure why not? But if you take this same idea and apply it to both fighting classes it opens up a lot of options for you, however you start.
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#6 Sep 11 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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If I remember correctly, FFXI only started with WAR MNK THF WHM RDM BLM at release. That's not much worse than what XIV is going to have.

The bigger problem right now is that none of them really feel unique. Thaumaturge and Conjurer don't really feel a whole lot different. Like two different parts of RDM split into separate classes. All of the melee jobs feel like different generic versions of the same attacks coming from different weapon styles. Particularly Marauder and Lancer.

Edited, Sep 11th 2010 3:22pm by bsphil
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#7 Sep 11 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Above post changed so no longer makes sense...


Edited, Sep 11th 2010 3:24pm by Onionthiefx
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#8 Sep 11 2010 at 2:26 PM Rating: Default
bsphil wrote:
If I remember correctly, FFXI only started with WAR MNK THF WHM RDM BLM at release. That's not much worse than what XIV is going to have.

Thanks for reading my opening post. Actually wait, did you copypasta that from my opening post?
...


But yeah there are lots of possibilities with the customization, but it doesn't help with giving each class a 'characteristic' of their own. You know? Truly, the current DoW's are weapons specialists, just like War and Thf and Mnk from FFXI. They simply use their weapon and don't have many actual characteristics or traits that make them individually noteworthy.

Basically what I'm saying is I'm curious to see what the new classes will be like, because these current ones are suitably bland. :P Not bad classes, just clearly not the cream of the crop, just like in ffxi which i had no problem with.

(There I go again, protecting myself from the frothing flamers who hate any form of observation)

Edited, Sep 11th 2010 4:27pm by DirectorCobbs
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#9 Sep 11 2010 at 2:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think I'll try a bit of everything over time. Who knows what they'll introduce as 'advance' jobs in the future. We have years...
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#10 Sep 11 2010 at 2:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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I was struggling with this as well until I realized what they want us to do.
They don't want us to pick a class and "be a pugilist" or "be a thaumaturge".

They want us to think of the character concept we want to play. Don't think of the Gladiator, Lancer, Conjurer etc as classes, but rather as skill titles. This is why most of the skills we learn as the various 'classes' merely require us to be a Discipline of Magic or Discipline of War in order to use them, rather than that specific 'class'. We're meant to mix and match.

Do you want to be a Paladin character? Than grab a sword & board, some Gladiator skills, and some healing abilities from Conjurer/Thaumaturge.
Or play a Paladin with a Lance. Or a Great Axe. Who's to say a Paladin should only be using a sword and shield?

The expectation that they should has been instilled upon us by previous MMO's employing cookie cutter classes that could only function certain ways. We now have the opportunity to define those classes the way we see them.

Want to be a Time Mage? Well I've seen Gravity and Slow, and I know the developers talked about how Haste could work (I don't know if they added it or not). Gladiators can use daggers, and you can pick up various decrease hate abilities from the different 'classes'. Go at it!

That is how I think they're wanting people to approach the game. Come with a concept of what you want, and then build it. For myself, I'm going to be making something sortof like the Ninja class, except more Thief-ish. I'll be starting out as Pugilist, but I intend on buying myself a staff/wand ASAP to get access to a castable heal. Perhaps I'll switch to a dagger at some point, perhaps not.
#11 Sep 11 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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well i'm pretty excited about the crafting classes and archer and lancer. But I definitely can't wait to see what else they come up with. Would definitely love to see some sort of gunslinging class (lots of allusion to musketeer), or a summoning class.
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#12 Sep 11 2010 at 2:44 PM Rating: Excellent
theweenie wrote:
I was struggling with this as well until I realized what they want us to do.
They don't want us to pick a class and "be a pugilist" or "be a thaumaturge".

They want us to think of the character concept we want to play. Don't think of the Gladiator, Lancer, Conjurer etc as classes, but rather as skill titles. This is why most of the skills we learn as the various 'classes' merely require us to be a Discipline of Magic or Discipline of War in order to use them, rather than that specific 'class'. We're meant to mix and match.

Do you want to be a Paladin character? Than grab a sword & board, some Gladiator skills, and some healing abilities from Conjurer/Thaumaturge.
Or play a Paladin with a Lance. Or a Great Axe. Who's to say a Paladin should only be using a sword and shield?

The expectation that they should has been instilled upon us by previous MMO's employing cookie cutter classes that could only function certain ways. We now have the opportunity to define those classes the way we see them.

Want to be a Time Mage? Well I've seen Gravity and Slow, and I know the developers talked about how Haste could work (I don't know if they added it or not). Gladiators can use daggers, and you can pick up various decrease hate abilities from the different 'classes'. Go at it!

That is how I think they're wanting people to approach the game. Come with a concept of what you want, and then build it. For myself, I'm going to be making something sortof like the Ninja class, except more Thief-ish. I'll be starting out as Pugilist, but I intend on buying myself a staff/wand ASAP to get access to a castable heal. Perhaps I'll switch to a dagger at some point, perhaps not.

I do agree, and i have noticed this as well.
I still stand by my opinion that there aren't any true unique fighting styles or abilities in the game yet. Things like dragons spouting fire, using enemy magic, summoning beings, playing songs, rolling dice, having a pet mob, being a walking talking 'death', being a swift and flashy katana weilder, being an assassin, being a holy-fighter, acrobatics, and so forth.

But you're right, you can definitely 'patch' something together. I've noticed how they changed the ability categories. What used to be "lancer" is now "lance". What used to be "gladiator" is now "sword". etc. It doesn't seem the same, however, because it still feels so generic.
It feels like building a character in Oblivion. You can get a chameleon spell from illusion, paralyze poison from alchemy, swift roofjumping from acrobatics, dagger-killing from blades, and so forth. But it's not the same as playing a rogue in WoW, or a thief or ninja in FFXI, or playing assassin's creed, or whatnot.
It's like making your own club sandwich versus buying a 20 dollar gourmet club sandwich. :P

I'm not totally against the system or anything (and we may be going a lil bit offtopic, by talking about the build-a-class system in such depth) but its definitely not igniting the cool feeling of having a class you love and want to play.

For example, will anyone have a favorite class anymore? Will we post pictures of our beloved dragoon or smn or pup or sam? Or will we simply have 'favorite builds', where we post pictures of whatever we happen to look like at the time?

It all seems so undefinied, which is NOT a bad thing, but some class definition would be great.
As it is now, each class doesn't feel like they'd have their own awesome looking AF or whatnot. Feels like they're just normal warriors.


But again, this is in spirit of ffxi. So perhaps we'll still get our cool unique fighters in the future. I just don't want this to become oblivion-esque or DAO-esque in genericness.

:)
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#13 Sep 11 2010 at 2:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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theweenie wrote:
I was struggling with this as well until I realized what they want us to do.
They don't want us to pick a class and "be a pugilist" or "be a thaumaturge".

They want us to think of the character concept we want to play. Don't think of the Gladiator, Lancer, Conjurer etc as classes, but rather as skill titles. This is why most of the skills we learn as the various 'classes' merely require us to be a Discipline of Magic or Discipline of War in order to use them, rather than that specific 'class'. We're meant to mix and match.

Do you want to be a Paladin character? Than grab a sword & board, some Gladiator skills, and some healing abilities from Conjurer/Thaumaturge.
Or play a Paladin with a Lance. Or a Great Axe. Who's to say a Paladin should only be using a sword and shield?

The expectation that they should has been instilled upon us by previous MMO's employing cookie cutter classes that could only function certain ways. We now have the opportunity to define those classes the way we see them.

Want to be a Time Mage? Well I've seen Gravity and Slow, and I know the developers talked about how Haste could work (I don't know if they added it or not). Gladiators can use daggers, and you can pick up various decrease hate abilities from the different 'classes'. Go at it!

That is how I think they're wanting people to approach the game. Come with a concept of what you want, and then build it. For myself, I'm going to be making something sortof like the Ninja class, except more Thief-ish. I'll be starting out as Pugilist, but I intend on buying myself a staff/wand ASAP to get access to a castable heal. Perhaps I'll switch to a dagger at some point, perhaps not.


That all sounds nice, but I think it remains to be seen whether it'll be practical. I'm afraid we're going to run into the same kind of limitations that discouraged "WAR/WHM" or "SMN/RDM" in FFXI. Now in FFXIV I know you can equip abilities separately, but that's not unlimited and there's only so much you can do in a certain amount of time.

Sure you can equip "Cure" on your gladiator, but is that efficient? Will it be worth losing out on some other ability to set "Cure" on your gladiator? And perhaps more important of all, will people be willing to play with someone who sets "Cure" on their gladiator?

I see a lot of people praise the "community" of FFXI and how they are all so nice and welcoming, but there's a reason the only special unique snowflakes you'll see are in Beaucedine Glacier.
#14 Sep 11 2010 at 3:03 PM Rating: Decent
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I think you would only want a well-rounded build for a solo approach. In party play u should stick to the extremes of ur class. This means a gladiator should not be carrying cures, he should be carrying all the hate-provoking and tanking abilities and damage abilities.
#15 Sep 11 2010 at 3:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Nothing major so far but I'm enjoying almost all the classes I'm playing - the one that stands out as more unique to me is the Gladiator but of course its only unique relative to the other classes in the game right now otherwise its a recycled class from every MMO on the market...I think I'll play Gladiator and make a paladin/tank type build to level 50 and hopefully by then there is a Samurai class.
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#16 Sep 11 2010 at 3:12 PM Rating: Good
Haha I'm waiting for samurai too :P Something so satisfying about being an artful fighter in an mmo.

I was considering going conj, but i hate having to spread my stats in vit, int, mnd, and pie. And 'getting that new awesome cloth armor!' isnt as cool as 'getting that new awesome chainmail!'
so fighter is it :P
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#17 Sep 11 2010 at 3:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can see that, though I think we're not doing too badly as far as "release classes" go. I mean THF in FFXI didn't even get Sneak Attack until level 15. Before then it was just an extremely weak WAR (or so it seemed). None of them were too diverse or stellar. RDM was another that didn't come into its own until much (MUCH) later, and until it did there wasn't all that much it could bring to the table over another mage class. So while I can see that, yeah, a lot of what it seems like now is "same class, different weapon," at least we actually get some abilities to mess around with before level 15 at all (unlike the poor THF I mentioned earlier). True, maybe they aren't ultimately unique or defining abilities (as far as our current sensibilities tell us), but at least they're something. I do hope to see some defining characteristics in some of the later classes, or as later additions to the original classes.

As for the real question of the post, I'm not sure. I'm leaning toward a Conjurer "base" for my Miqo'te and a Lancer "base" for my Hyur, but I really have no idea. When I made my FFXI character, I started her off as a MNK before quickly deciding to change her to THF as the job I would first take to endgame. As my sig makes apparent, neither of those things happened. After the first few months my MNK sat somewhere in the teens and my THF sat at 39, neither of which have budged since. I also had all the best intentions to level NIN; though when I got to 51 I realized I'd have to level my sub job (WAR) a bit to keep up. Now NIN is mysteriously absent from my list of 75's but sure enough WAR is there. A lot of times the thing you end up having an affinity for just falls into place rather than being the subject of many days/weeks of deliberation.
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#18 Sep 11 2010 at 3:29 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
They want us to think of the character concept we want to play. Don't think of the Gladiator, Lancer, Conjurer etc as classes, but rather as skill titles.


but dude, the skills in each class are largely what theyre talking about when they say bland and generic.
i think the skills so far are way less generic than FFXIs starting class skills, but dont compare to alot of other games. a lot of these just seem copy and pasted to me.
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#19 Sep 11 2010 at 5:03 PM Rating: Decent
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I havent yet found a class i really love but i am really hoping that a ninja or SAM type class is planned for the future!
#20 Sep 11 2010 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
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I like pugilist so far best - but honestly I am waiting for a bst type class and some other interesting melee. I can't stand calling it pugilist though. I feel like my character should have a handle-bar mustache with his "dukes" up challenging people/mobs to a bout of gentlemanly fisticuffs.

Really, what was the obsession with giving all new names that were awkward sounding to retarded. How the **** are Gladiators synonymous with tanking. Bah I say! BAH!
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#21 Sep 11 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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I just gotta say, I MISS MY RED MAGE ...and I haven't even had the chance to give it a good play yet.

Something about a RDM/War tank at anything below 30 was just ...me.
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#22 Sep 11 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Why did they have to come up with all these fancy names? I prefer the good old classic names....just gives you that final fantasy feel.
#23 Sep 11 2010 at 6:25 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
If I remember correctly, FFXI only started with WAR MNK THF WHM RDM BLM at release. That's not much worse than what XIV is going to have.


Nah, PLD DRK BST BRD RNG were also available at launch - just, by virtue of being advanced classes, they weren't seen in game until people starting reaching level 30.

Quote:
The bigger problem right now is that none of them really feel unique. Thaumaturge and Conjurer don't really feel a whole lot different. Like two different parts of RDM split into separate classes. All of the melee jobs feel like different generic versions of the same attacks coming from different weapon styles. Particularly Marauder and Lancer.


This. I'm not at all sure that SE has fully thought through the ramifications of their bizarre class-based/skill-based hybrid, and how they affect the design of each individual discipline.
#24 Sep 11 2010 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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Nah, PLD DRK BST BRD RNG were also available at launch - just, by virtue of being advanced classes, they weren't seen in game until people starting reaching level 30.


That was the American/non-Japanese launch, not the premier launch of the game. When it launched in the US it had already been out in Japan for quite a long time and had one expansion already (Rise of the Zilart). When it truly launched (in Japan), Rise of the Zilart (and PLD DRK BST BRD RNG SMN) did not exist in the game.
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#25 Sep 11 2010 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Well...I agree that at the moment none of the combat classes really grab me or anything. In XI I loved my pet jobs so I'll be waiting to see if something similar.

#26 Sep 11 2010 at 9:09 PM Rating: Good
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So now that crafting jobs are their own classes, what do you do when you actually do want to look for group?

You can't fish while LFG as a Gladiator. You can't perform synths while waiting around because it changes your job. Will there be an ability to flag up as the job/rank that you need?

Did SE even think of that?

Edited, Sep 11th 2010 11:10pm by LordMethos
#27 Sep 11 2010 at 9:26 PM Rating: Good
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#28 Sep 11 2010 at 9:48 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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Kaelia88 wrote:
Rise of the Zilart (and ... SMN)
SMN was added with Zilart...

Oh but you're right, advanced jobs were there at release, it's the beta that they were missing in.

Edited, Sep 11th 2010 10:50pm by bsphil
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#29 Sep 11 2010 at 10:05 PM Rating: Good
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Edit: I take it back. You may be right. I'm confused, however. I thought that everything from PLD to SMN was considered a Rise of the Zilart job? I was under the impression that RotZ was released in 2003 and the release of the game in Japan was 2002?

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 12:20am by Kaelia88
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#30 Sep 11 2010 at 10:43 PM Rating: Good
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RotZ jobs were: SMN, SAM, NIN, DRG (SMN was added in the patch immediately prior to RotZ, but only had carbuncle and elementals; it was for all intents and purposes a zilart job.)

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 12:43am by Deadgye
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#31 Sep 11 2010 at 10:51 PM Rating: Good
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Kaelia88 wrote:
Edit: I take it back. You may be right. I'm confused, however. I thought that everything from PLD to SMN was considered a Rise of the Zilart job? I was under the impression that RotZ was released in 2003 and the release of the game in Japan was 2002?


Nope, the Zilart jobs are just SAM NIN DRG, with SMN being added at the same time as Zilart but available without having Zilart installed (though you still needed Zilart to obtain summons other than Carbuncle).

EDIT: Bah, beaten to it.


Edited, Sep 11th 2010 9:52pm by BastokFL
#32 Sep 11 2010 at 11:10 PM Rating: Good
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You can't fish while LFG as a Gladiator. You can't perform synths while waiting around because it changes your job. Will there be an ability to flag up as the job/rank that you need?


Yes, you can actually. Use the party recruitment/search system (Menu>Party).
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#33 Sep 11 2010 at 11:11 PM Rating: Good
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They're gonna be really sad when we figure out the best combinations of jobs and skills and start building cookie-cutter characters. Unless most of their planning and design time was spent figuring out how to make every combination equally viable, there will be cookie-cutter builds and everyone is going to use them.

I'll be using a Gladiator tanking cookie-cutter build, myself.
#34 Sep 11 2010 at 11:26 PM Rating: Good
SE is very slow when it comes to balancing, so expect certain builds to obviously be better than others. Also, this system will be INCREDIBLY difficult to balance due to the 'freedom' aspect of it.
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#35 Sep 11 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes, you can actually. Use the party recruitment/search system (Menu>Party).


I love how the recruit system currently works, it's amazing. But search is a little bit lacking. Currently it's set so that you can search for the people your looking indefinitely, but you can only see if you're being looked for at single moments in time. What people want right now is the ability to flag a certain job as LFP indefinitely. (Basically, they need to add a recruitee option.)

Unless I'm understanding it incorrectly, which could very well be possible lol.

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 1:32am by Deadgye
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#36 Sep 11 2010 at 11:36 PM Rating: Decent
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So even though the job came out with Zilart and all of the content for it came out with Zilart, that's not a zilart job?
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#37 Sep 11 2010 at 11:39 PM Rating: Decent
Stop going off topic :P
The discussion is about OPENING jobs. It doesn't matter if SMN came out before or at zilart's release, it wasn't there the day ffxi was released.
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#38 Sep 11 2010 at 11:41 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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DirectorCobbs wrote:
Stop going off topic :P
The discussion is about OPENING jobs. It doesn't matter if SMN came out before or at zilart's release, it wasn't there the day ffxi was released.
FFXIV is boring.

/thread
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#39 Sep 12 2010 at 12:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Summoner was sort of like a teaser for Zilart. You could unlock it ahead of time but it was obviously made to go along with the expansion and was marketed as a part of it.

Anyway, I have some problems with picking a starting combat class I really love as well. I tend to play mostly offensive mages and "unusual" things (like COR and DNC in FFXI). There are only two magic classes in the game so far, and neither one of them is pure offense.

Most people are going to look for conjurers to heal them. I understand that I can choose not to set Cure or whatever, but the fact remains that by raising my conjury skill I will learn Cure, Protect, and Shell automatically. Parties will invariably search for conjurers when they need healing, not necessarily to deal damage (because other classes can do it, and without spending MP), and I just know there are going to be huge debates on the Internet about how conjurers need to heal people in a party, how it's their primary use to groups, etc.

Thaumaturge seems fun, but I've never been a huge fan of enfeebling/debuffing classes, and that seems to be a big part of it. It will probably be the class I end up sticking with the most though.

The fighter classes are actually pretty fun with the FFXIV battle system, but I just don't see myself identifying with any of them as my "main" class like I would a good spell-slinger.

My real hope is that arcanist or some other class will be something I really want to play, and I'll have a good start on abilities from thaumaturge and conjurer I'd want to use on it. That along with the fact that physical level stays the same is a nice way to still have made progress even if one of the first classes doesn't turn out to be your true "main" later on.
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#40 Sep 12 2010 at 12:07 AM Rating: Good
I feel ya man. I'm hoping for a blue mage type of job, that'd be really cool :) It always is in every FF game :P

I'm curious still about those who've decided what weapon/class is their favorite so far, and what playstyle suits them best
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#41 Sep 12 2010 at 12:20 AM Rating: Good
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My 2 favs are conjurer & pugilist, marauder's close up there too & there's really no class I dislike...i may have to go the slow route in retail and level a little bit of everything, with a lean towards pug & con...then see if I can come up with some cool hybrid I'm happy with
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#42 Sep 12 2010 at 12:20 AM Rating: Decent
I'm not sure what I'm going to do now either. My plan was culinarian, but now I don't think so. a) Seems like a bad idea to start as a DoH class. b) Seems people arent' going to be using much food at the start. It will probably be worth it when people get a bit of expendable income and start finding out what foods help them a lot.

Since I'm not doing that though, I'm not sure what I *am* going to do. Do I want to mix it up with conjurer and thaumaturge and be a normal looking guy who happens to be able to level cities if you get on his bad side? Do I want to be the loner stoic archer? A pugilist, always looking to perfect his fighting skill, sort of a Ryu from Street Fighter style character? I'm not decided yet.

Edited, Sep 11th 2010 11:21pm by digitalcraft


Rated down for this and everything else I've posted recently. Show yourself, camper.

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 4:11pm by digitalcraft
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#43 Sep 12 2010 at 12:24 AM Rating: Good
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DragoonRising wrote:
They're gonna be really sad when we figure out the best combinations of jobs and skills and start building cookie-cutter characters. Unless most of their planning and design time was spent figuring out how to make every combination equally viable, there will be cookie-cutter builds and everyone is going to use them.

I'll be using a Gladiator tanking cookie-cutter build, myself.


If fact, it's well-known among western developers that skill-based systems are, for all intents and purposes, impossible to balance, because there are so many possible combinations of and interactions between abilities. So the only hope for some semblance of balance in a skill-based MMO system is frequent balance adjustments - frequent because, by the law of unintended consequences, any such adjustments will themselves introduce further imbalances.

Whether the FFXIV dev team has absorbed this fact and is prepared to make the needed adjustments remains to be seen.
#44 Sep 12 2010 at 12:30 AM Rating: Decent
BastokFL wrote:
DragoonRising wrote:
They're gonna be really sad when we figure out the best combinations of jobs and skills and start building cookie-cutter characters. Unless most of their planning and design time was spent figuring out how to make every combination equally viable, there will be cookie-cutter builds and everyone is going to use them.

I'll be using a Gladiator tanking cookie-cutter build, myself.


If fact, it's well-known among western developers that skill-based systems are, for all intents and purposes, impossible to balance, because there are so many possible combinations of and interactions between abilities. So the only hope for some semblance of balance in a skill-based MMO system is frequent balance adjustments - frequent because, by the law of unintended consequences, any such adjustments will themselves introduce further imbalances.

Whether the FFXIV dev team has absorbed this fact and is prepared to make the needed adjustments remains to be seen.



And if two abilities are basically the same value, people will decide on is better at criticize people who don't go with their opinion. There will be cookie cutter builds even if everything was perfectly balanced. It's human nature.
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#45 Sep 12 2010 at 1:17 AM Rating: Decent
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I myself always liked the advanced jobs better in FFXI

My top favorites were BLU, DRK, SCH, and PUP(for soloing)

When I first started out in XI I went BLM, and eventually switched to RDM (refresh was just too **** not to get)

Starting out I am leaning toward THA (not sure if its THA or THU, or whatever the community will eventually decide on lol) since it is closest to RDM (with some awesome blood mage type healing!).

I am hoping to see some type of BLU class or even a take on SMN. I would love to see a new interpretation of SMN in XIV, maybe even a merging of SMN and BLU, you could summon elemental "things" and learn magic abilities off of enemies.

I would guess we will see a lot of the popular classes from from XI popping back up, I am personally hoping each gets something new or merged with another class or two like a lot of these basic ones are.

I am all for the new basic classes in XIV, I have gotten sick of every game having the same line up to pick from. If these basic classes are a brief look into what the advanced classes might be I think it might turn out pretty interesting (/crossfingers).


Edited, Sep 12th 2010 12:20am by CrazyDemo
#46 Sep 12 2010 at 1:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Weavers have arguably the best starting gear, so I'd pick that and craft till I hit physical level 10 before working on any combat classes.
#47 Sep 12 2010 at 3:52 AM Rating: Good
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I agree with most of you, pretty bland starting classes, which is probably why I haven't pre-ordered the game. I want it sure, but I am not in any particular hurry simply because there is no class that has really sparked my interest. In the end I will probably start out as a crafter of some sort and wait until they add a few more classes to the mix before I go into the fighter classes.
#48 Sep 12 2010 at 12:04 PM Rating: Decent
Also remember that the 'build your own class' thing isn't the case, because subclass abilities are gimped (or not that useful) when used on other classes. They can still be useful, if utility abilities, but attack abilities aren't worth equipping if they're from another class.

Use what your class gets and you'll be much more effective, because there's no damage/effectiveness/cooldown/duration/accuracy(for debuffs) penalties
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#49 Sep 12 2010 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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The ability to splice classes is cool, but no individual class has a "flair" to it. None of them feel "special". I totally agree I'm to really sold on any class, I don't feel any certain class is especially cool or jumps out at me, or even interesting.
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#50 Sep 12 2010 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
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DirectorCobbs wrote:
They can still be useful, if utility abilities, but attack abilities aren't worth equipping if they're from another class.

Concussion Blow is pretty useful on every job that solos, especially mages, who have now way to use their TP until level 10. Gladiator also makes very good use of it, especially since Red Lotus Blade costs MP, etc.

Don't shoot down cross-class abilities just yet.
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#51 Sep 12 2010 at 12:27 PM Rating: Decent
Yes, a damaging TP move might be useful for a few levels for a starter mage, and for gladiators who dont want to spend mp until they get their second TP ability.
But I'm thinking about down the line and from reports and experience. You're just saying "low level characters might find so and so useful"

It's clear cross-ability-using is useful in the low levels. Second wind is handy, but you can all experience how it becomes useful as a subclass ability the further you level up. Same goes for most subclass abilities.
As subclass abilities, stoneskin only lasts 1-2 hits, second wind heals for as much as you'll be attacked for, TP damagers do less damage than your own TP damagers (and their debuff effects dont last long at all), buffs dont last long enough, etc. It's well documented.

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 2:28pm by DirectorCobbs
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