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Distributing attribute points...?!Follow

#1 Sep 11 2010 at 8:49 PM Rating: Decent
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So wait, everytime I change jobs (DoW to DoM, or DoM to DoW, for example), do I have to manually reassign my attributes? Or does the game remember them per job?
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#2 Sep 11 2010 at 8:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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The game remembers them per character only. They stay the same if you change jobs. You have to manually choose to undo them a portion at a time if you want to re-assign them (by clicking the Reassign button in the points distribution window). Like I said, though, that doesn't let you redistribute all your points at once, just in chunks. And you can only use that button every 30 minutes (as of right now).
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#3 Sep 11 2010 at 8:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriously?
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#4 Sep 11 2010 at 8:57 PM Rating: Good
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You have to redistribute them manually. There is also a restriction how many you can redistribute at a time. As far as I know now, at level 20 PS it will take approximate 3 hours to redistribute all your points and it needs to be done in portions.

Edited, Sep 11th 2010 10:58pm by Shoomy
#5 Sep 11 2010 at 9:16 PM Rating: Decent
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As far as I know now, at level 20 PS it will take approximate 3 hours to redistribute all your points and it needs to be done in portions.


Keep in mind that would be to COMPLETELY flop your stats over from pure melee to pure mage or vice versa.
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#6 Sep 11 2010 at 9:20 PM Rating: Default
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Deadgye wrote:
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As far as I know now, at level 20 PS it will take approximate 3 hours to redistribute all your points and it needs to be done in portions.


Keep in mind that would be to COMPLETELY flop your stats over from pure melee to pure mage or vice versa.
Man if you thought switching jobs and equipping skills was bad...

I think what this will mean is that most people will just need to balance their stats despite wanting to only put in STR/VIT/DEX while on a melee job. Smart players will get by just fine because they'll understand how to better balance their stats, it's the more casual players that will suffer. Why couldn't they just do it like in FFXI where... <insert everything about FFXI leveling and jobs>.

By the way, can anyone explain the importance of physical level? I'm still not sure that I get it. Is it ONLY for increasing stats/elemental resistance?

Edited, Sep 11th 2010 10:24pm by bsphil
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#7 Sep 11 2010 at 9:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Keep in mind that would be to COMPLETELY flop your stats over from pure melee to pure mage or vice versa.


If I change jobs from Archer to Conjuror... that's what I'd need to do. Why should I have to wait for that? I think this needs to be changed.

Edited, Sep 11th 2010 11:21pm by hexaemeron
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#8 Sep 11 2010 at 9:28 PM Rating: Good
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If I change jobs from Archer to Conjuror... that's what I'd need to do. Why should I have to wait for that? I think this needs to be changed.


The difference is that in FFXIV you can change from Archer to Conjurer on the field at any time. It doesn't require a trip back to town (like it did in FFXI), which is why they have placed some kind of restriction on it. However, I DO think they should make it possible to do a full stat reset immediately by going to an NPC in town or something like that. I haven't encountered too much of a problem with the stat-switching, seeing as even on Conjurer I do need a bit of DEX (for Radiance) and VIT (for HP). Still, there should be a complete stat swap option somewhere, I just don't think they need to go so far as to allow it to be done on the fly, in the field.
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#9 Sep 11 2010 at 9:37 PM Rating: Good
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Sounds like a good thing for use within player housing, completely resetting att. points.
#10 Sep 11 2010 at 9:43 PM Rating: Decent
bsphil wrote:
By the way, can anyone explain the importance of physical level? I'm still not sure that I get it. Is it ONLY for increasing stats/elemental resistance?


That's pretty much it, ya.
#11 Sep 11 2010 at 9:46 PM Rating: Default
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Kaelia88 wrote:
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If I change jobs from Archer to Conjuror... that's what I'd need to do. Why should I have to wait for that? I think this needs to be changed.


The difference is that in FFXIV you can change from Archer to Conjurer on the field at any time. It doesn't require a trip back to town (like it did in FFXI), which is why they have placed some kind of restriction on it. However, I DO think they should make it possible to do a full stat reset immediately by going to an NPC in town or something like that. I haven't encountered too much of a problem with the stat-switching, seeing as even on Conjurer I do need a bit of DEX (for Radiance) and VIT (for HP). Still, there should be a complete stat swap option somewhere, I just don't think they need to go so far as to allow it to be done on the fly, in the field.
Well, in FFXI the main problem was that my entire inventory was choked with gear for a single job. If I wanted to change jobs, even if I could switch any time I wanted, I'd still need to go back to town to spend 5 minutes swapping gear around.
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#12 Sep 11 2010 at 9:48 PM Rating: Decent
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This game has too many punishments and stopgaps and whatnot built into it. This is honestly really irritating.
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#13 Sep 11 2010 at 9:50 PM Rating: Decent
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hexaemeron wrote:
This game has too many punishments and stopgaps and whatnot built into it. This is honestly really irritating.

I haven't run into any yet. When I ran out of guildleves I just did guildleves with other people. I could grind solo if I wanted to, but that's rather boring. When I switched jobs I just kept my stats the same or did one redistribute.

Edited, Sep 11th 2010 11:50pm by Deadgye
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#14 Sep 11 2010 at 9:52 PM Rating: Good
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The difference is that in FFXIV you can change from Archer to Conjurer on the field at any time. It doesn't require a trip back to town (like it did in FFXI), which is why they have placed some kind of restriction on it.


I have not tried stat rebalancing yet... but...

Why would this require a restriction if it is supposed to be a core mechanic of the game?

If the whole action / trait / class / leveling system is based around the flexibility of being able to swap out of combat from one extreme (say melee) to another (say mage), having a restriction on that seems counter productive.

I kinda see this as being the next war/whm type deal... and honestly rightfully so.
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#15 Sep 11 2010 at 9:55 PM Rating: Decent
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I've been playing non stop since OP and I have never been bored for 1 min, so many things you can do it's only beta! There's way more to come. Only crappy thing is anima XD but WTH I really don't mind walking Eoreza it deserves to be looked at, so **** nice.



Edited, Sep 11th 2010 11:56pm by Abhy
#16 Sep 11 2010 at 9:58 PM Rating: Decent
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If I change jobs from Archer to Conjuror... that's what I'd need to do. Why should I have to wait for that? I think this needs to be changed.

Why do you need to COMPLETELY flop your stats around? Is it really going to make your conjurer unplayable because you don't have the maximum possible int?
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#17 Sep 11 2010 at 9:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Why do you need to COMPLETELY flop your stats around? Is it really going to make your conjurer unplayable because you don't have the maximum possible int?


At level 2, of course not. At level 20 or more, yeah, probably.
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#18 Sep 11 2010 at 10:01 PM Rating: Decent
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hexaemeron wrote:
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Why do you need to COMPLETELY flop your stats around? Is it really going to make your conjurer unplayable because you don't have the maximum possible int?


At level 2, of course not. At level 20 or more, yeah, probably.


So you're just making random guesses on what it's going to be like?
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#19 Sep 11 2010 at 10:04 PM Rating: Decent
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So you're just making random guesses on what it's going to be like?


If by random guesses, you mean logical deductions based off of 25 years of gaming experience and over 30 years of living, then yes, random guesses it is.
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#20 Sep 11 2010 at 10:07 PM Rating: Decent
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hexaemeron wrote:
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So you're just making random guesses on what it's going to be like?


If by random guesses, you mean logical deductions based off of 25 years of gaming experience and over 30 years of living, then yes, random guesses it is.


Then through your logical deductions surely you know that the difference between a full restat and an instant one are minimal at best compared to having to go to town to change jobs. If you do a direct comparison then you have two redistributes, which makes the difference between what you have and a full restat almost unnoticeable.

I'd personally love to use my character to show the difference, but I had to delete it and remake it recently due to an error involved with the rollback. :(

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 12:12am by Deadgye
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#21 Sep 11 2010 at 10:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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I switch from full melee to full mage very often, as Thaumaturge and Gladiator are my two "mains" in the OB right now.

Since the reassign is % based, the first points have the most "oomph", and as you play, your character gradually improves into the current role (every 30 minutes). After an hour (3 reassigns), you're pretty much where you want to be, I find.
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#22 Sep 11 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
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This doesn't really concern me as I plan on primarily playing melee classes, but for one to switch between DoW and DoM on a regular basis would be somewhat inconvenient. While having a character with high str, dex, and vit as a DoW and then swapping to DoM won't make the the DoM completely unplayable, it will like most likely be gimped to a certain extent at higher levels. Feel free to disagree.
#23 Sep 11 2010 at 10:20 PM Rating: Good
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it will like most likely be gimped to a certain extent at higher levels.

Only for a short period of time, at worst.
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#24 Sep 11 2010 at 10:27 PM Rating: Default
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That's not exactly the point I was trying to get across, but true nonetheless. In the end, people should be thankful we have have the ability to redistribute stat points in the first place. While we do have a timer on the redistribution, 3 hours seems like a fair amount of time having to wait for a complete reset.
#25 Sep 11 2010 at 10:29 PM Rating: Good
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While we do have a timer on the redistribution, 3 hours seems like a fair amount of time having to wait for a complete reset.


I'd be willing to disagree there. I think any game that "encourages" you to play different classes shouldn't make you wait, penalizing you so you're unable to be your personal best at the intended class. But that's just my opinion.
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#26 Sep 11 2010 at 10:29 PM Rating: Decent
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And as was said above, that's only for a complete flop.
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After an hour (3 reassigns), you're pretty much where you want to be, I find.


Quote:
I'd be willing to disagree there. I think any game that "encourages" you to play different classes shouldn't make you wait, penalizing you so you're unable to be your personal best at the intended class. But that's just my opinion.

It's your choice to only play while at your maximum possible. How do you know your personal stat distribution is even the maximum possible best? It's silly to whine about not being perfect for a short amount of time.

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 12:31am by Deadgye
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#27 Sep 11 2010 at 10:29 PM Rating: Good
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Only for a short period of time, at worst.


If you find an hour of time "short" for a nights play time, then yes, it is short.

Some of us though, thats half to all of our play time for the night.
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#28 Sep 11 2010 at 10:32 PM Rating: Decent
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KacesofCaitsith wrote:
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Only for a short period of time, at worst.


If you find an hour of time "short" for a nights play time, then yes, it is short.

Some of us though, thats half to all of our play time for the night.


I find a half hour a short amount of time, since that's the time limit on a single leve. In that time the difference is negligible.
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#29 Sep 11 2010 at 10:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Wow, who knew posting on this forum would be such a ******* match.. lolz

Anywho, while they do encourage us to play multiple classes, and it would definately be ideal to make a complete reset instanteously for those with minimal time like Kaces stated.. As if you guys haven't noticed already, this is going to be a give and take sort of relationship with this game, we can't have everything perfect. Mind you, considering this is from the same people implementing an EXP fatigue, I stand by my previous comment that we should be happy in that they let us redistribute any stat points.

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 12:39am by zeruin
#30 Sep 11 2010 at 10:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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I find a half hour a short amount of time, since that's the time limit on a single leve. In that time the difference is negligible.


I'm not convinced really - it brings up issues with me on the fundamental systems of the game.

By this i mean, either stats are useful, or they are not.

If they are useful, then having only 1/3 (assuming 3 rebalances to get 100% of your stats in line) of your classes stats inline should be a huge disadvantage.

If only having 1/3 the stats does nothing, then what is the point of having stats?

Now, before you say "less than perfect" there is a difference between having say 3/4 of your stats (which would be less than perfect) and having 1/3 of them.

My beef with it i stated before, it seems counter productive to the whole job switching system (and all the systems built around it).
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#31 Sep 11 2010 at 10:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Now, before you say "less than perfect" there is a difference between having say 3/4 of your stats (which would be less than perfect) and having 1/3 of them.


A restat is about 25% from what I've experienced so far. 3 restats (1 hour) is going to bring you right about where you want it. I'm all for a full restat if you're in town or something, I've mentioned that before when discussing this topic before- but not having optimal stats right away when you just changed your job on the field is nothing to be worried about.

Stats make a difference, but not enough to make your job unplayable because you didn't do a full restat.
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#32 Sep 11 2010 at 10:50 PM Rating: Good
So you can essentially put stats anywhere, and with time, switch everything up? This is good... I suppose, but my god it's going to get annoying.
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#33 Sep 11 2010 at 10:55 PM Rating: Good
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I can see why they want to restrict it, I've mentioned it in other similar threads that being able to change on the fly could be too much of an advantage at times. "Oooh, a fire elemental, lemme just change my elemental stats accordingly real quick." Having to go to town for a full re-stat isn't a problem if you have the anima to tele. So it could be abused in some cases. But then there's huge negatives with the way it is now. Getting an invite to pt on your mage job, but you've been soloing on pugilist...your response might be "Yeah, lemme get back to ya in a couple hours when I can get my mage setup on."

I'm not sure where the compromise is there...

I see the need for restrictions but also want to have various setups to change to whenever I want = P

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 12:59am by TwistedOwl
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#34 Sep 11 2010 at 10:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Getting an invite to pt on your mage job, but you've been soloing on pugilist...your response might be "Yeah, lemme get back to ya in a couple hours when I can get my mage setup on.

I'm not sure where the compromise is there...

You'll be able to restat twice before you're even killing mobs, most likely. Smiley: lol
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#35 Sep 11 2010 at 11:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Deadgye wrote:
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Getting an invite to pt on your mage job, but you've been soloing on pugilist...your response might be "Yeah, lemme get back to ya in a couple hours when I can get my mage setup on.

I'm not sure where the compromise is there...

You'll be able to restat twice before you're even killing mobs, most likely. Smiley: lol
Which is still stupid. I really don't want to also worry about resetting my stats when I change my jobs on top of changing gear.
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#36 Sep 11 2010 at 11:10 PM Rating: Good
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A restat is about 25% from what I've experienced so far. 3 restats (1 hour) is going to bring you right about where you want it. I'm all for a full restat if you're in town or something, I've mentioned that before when discussing this topic before- but not having optimal stats right away when you just changed your job on the field is nothing to be worried about.

Stats make a difference, but not enough to make your job unplayable because you didn't do a full restat.


sorry for not being clear, but i am for not being 100% right away, i just think the current penalty is too much - especially when you factor in time constraints of the "casual" group that this game is supposed to be aimed at.

30 mins to be fully restat balanced i think would be fine, with 3/4 effectiveness inbetween. Keep the current restrictions on elemental stats however as that can be abused.

The flexibility in this game should be promoted and balanced without punishing the player too harshly imo.
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#37 Sep 11 2010 at 11:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Again, I'm debating under the assumption that we will get the ability to do a full restat in town. (Because I wouldn't accept the system as is without that in retail.)

Also, "aimed at" implies that the game is developed for casuals first and hardcore second. The game is casual friendly, it's not casual only.

Honestly, have all the people arguing against how it works even done a restat themselves? Furthermore do they even know how potent stats are currently?
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#38 Sep 11 2010 at 11:30 PM Rating: Good
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A stat reallocation in town sounds nice, but I don't think it will happen. I hope it does, but that's another story.

In general I tend to play classes that are the same anyway, and/or try to stay balanced statwise so I can switch classes without too much of a penalty.

I can see this being a big deal in later levels. Right now stats do make a difference (ex. I can crit on blue mobs almost every hit with a high enough dex) though these are the beginning levels and against easy mobs.

If in later parties I'm wiffing because I don't have enough dex because I put to much in vit or mnd because I was soloing (and I couldn't reallocate a significant amount to dex or whatever) then this current system would suck, but no one really knows yet and unfortunately we'll have to wait and see how much people would be affected.
#39 Sep 11 2010 at 11:39 PM Rating: Decent
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To me, as currently presented, this is a total step back from even FFXI. All I had to do before was go to my MogHouse, change main/sub and change gear and I was ready to go.

This... this just seems like another time punishment to add to the list of time punishments in this game.

Again, as presented here.
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#40 Sep 11 2010 at 11:49 PM Rating: Good
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It takes a really long time to reset to normal stats if you're a crazy person who dumped every single point into fire to see if your fire nukes would do amazing damage...but no one does that kind of thing right? = P

I did...
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#41 Sep 11 2010 at 11:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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TwistedOwl wrote:
It takes a really long time to reset to normal stats if you're a crazy person who dumped every single point into fire to see if your fire nukes would do amazing damage...but no one does that kind of thing right? = P

I did...
Eventually people will learn that you need to balance your stats to allow yourself to not get completely gimped on other jobs.

Then everyone will start wondering why the game bothers to let you allocate your own stats if you need them balanced in the first place.

Meanwhile, at SquareEnix Headquarters in Japan...



 _____   _____    _____       ___   _____   
/  ___| |  _  \  | ____|     /   | |_   _|  
| |     | |_| |  | |__      / /| |   | |    
| |  _  |  _  /  |  __|    / / | |   | |    
| |_| | | | \ \  | |___   / /  | |   | |    
\_____/ |_|  \_\ |_____| /_/   |_|   |_|    
 
 _____   _   _   _____   _____   _____   _____   _____   
/  ___/ | | | | /  ___| /  ___| | ____| /  ___/ /  ___/  
| |___  | | | | | |     | |     | |__   | |___  | |___   
\___  \ | | | | | |     | |     |  __|  \___  \ \___  \  
 ___| | | |_| | | |___  | |___  | |___   ___| |  ___| |  
/_____/ \_____/ \_____| \_____| |_____| /_____/ /_____/  


Edited, Sep 12th 2010 1:03am by bsphil
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#42 Sep 12 2010 at 12:02 AM Rating: Default
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If you're going to talk out your ***, at least put spoilers on your sh*t. Thanks in advance~

(Yes, I mad)

edit: awww, now you added something that puts sarcasm into your post and makes my rage look misplaced. D:

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 2:06am by Deadgye
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#43 Sep 12 2010 at 12:25 AM Rating: Good
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Deadgye wrote:
If you're going to talk out your ***, at least put spoilers on your sh*t. Thanks in advance~

(Yes, I mad)

edit: awww, now you added something that puts sarcasm into your post and makes my rage look misplaced. D:

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 2:06am by Deadgye
Took time to put the text together, or rather to google a site that'd do it for me.
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#44 Sep 12 2010 at 12:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Supposed to wait before you post then! Not attempt to ninja edit it in after. :p
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#45 Sep 12 2010 at 12:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Deadgye wrote:
Supposed to wait before you post then! Not attempt to ninja edit it in after. :p
bsphil
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#46 Sep 12 2010 at 4:44 AM Rating: Default
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The reallocation of stat points scale with PS level, at least it seems so. At level 13 PS it took me around 2 hours to fully reassign my stat points, at level 20 PS it took me 3 hours. It seems that if you reassign points, you can only do 1/5 part of your total each time or 20% even.

If reassigning scales equally then at level 50 PS it will cost you around 7.5 hours, which is 7.5/5 is 1.5 hour per 20% of stat.

Also, there are others who tested this and got other results. Someone said he had to wait 50 minutes at level 18 PS for reassign to become available. This means that at level 18 PS it will take more then 4 hours.

Now this is not that bad if you could reassign all the points at once, but that is not the case. So in the end, the time to reassign 100% of your stat points, is the minimal time it would take.

This whole system favors the hardcore gamer, while the casual gamer probably has to wait several days. For some 1 hour game time is nothing, for others it is the time they can play per day.


Edited, Sep 12th 2010 6:47am by Shoomy
#47 Sep 12 2010 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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Again, I'm debating under the assumption that we will get the ability to do a full restat in town. (Because I wouldn't accept the system as is without that in retail.)


That's fine, but that isnt how it currently is though, is it? :)


One last thing to add to this post:

Personally, i would have implemented the restat mechanic based on a ramping up grade. An out of town restat would dump you with 1/2-3/4 of your stat points back immediately. You then set your levels with your alotted points. Then you set the remainder levels which will then ramp up to those levels automatically over a given time frame (or say, a given amount of mobs to kill). This allows it to be less punishing, more intuitive and more supportive of fluid game flow and immersion.
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#48 Sep 12 2010 at 8:18 AM Rating: Decent
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So I plan to play a hybrid class of CON/THM/GLD/LAN/PUG and put all my points into STR and PIE because it sounds awesome and fun. But what if down the road I read that playing a PUG/LAN/MAR is way better DPS and i need to put all my stats into STR/DEX. I think I shouldn't be penalized for wanting to change my play style to get bigger numbers.
#49 Sep 12 2010 at 8:22 AM Rating: Decent
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That's fine, but that isnt how it currently is though, is it? :)

Should I go complain about how the game needs chocobos and airships or it's going to suck too?
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#50 Sep 12 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Should I go complain about how the game needs chocobos and airships or it's going to suck too?


Is this how you respond to any legitimate non-trolling complaint about this game? Cmon now.
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#51 Sep 12 2010 at 10:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Should I go complain about how the game needs chocobos and airships or it's going to suck too?


You said:

Quote:
Again, I'm debating under the assumption that we will get the ability to do a full restat in town. (Because I wouldn't accept the system as is without that in retail.)


Basically, you are arguing for a system, which you are against currently, but are for it if some mechanic is added to it which is not currently in game.


So really, by your statements, yes you can complain that the game is going to suck because airships and chocobos are not in the game currently, but at the same time you fully expect them to be even though SE has given no indication that they will be in game.


The key point being - there is no indication that SE will put your "in-town" mechanic into play. Unless you have some patch notes, or developer communication to say otherwise, you are being overly optimistic and truthfully rather shortsighted.

If people do not complain about the system, it will never change. So while you may like the option to change "in town" SE will never know it if you don't complain about the current mechanic while advocating your own in a constructive manner.
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