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#1 Sep 11 2010 at 9:37 PM Rating: Decent
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SO... I'm a big final fantasy fan ... but never played 11 cause I always swore I would never buy a game and then pay to play it...

5 years of WoW and 2 years of freedom from it later - I have preordered FF14 and even have a new computer on way so that I have a chance to be ABLE to play it.

Here's my concern - I've been reading forums and trying to find information so I'm not a total dumba%% when I start. I'm figuring I'm already behind the curve as I think it's safe to think a large number of the players are going to be FF11 Vets. Are things relatively easy to pick up? I'm seeing tons of initials describing things, and I'm surprised I can figure out what most of them mean - but not having played 11 ... am I going to create a toon only to feel like I have years of trial and error before I have any clue as to what I'm supposed to do?
#2 Sep 11 2010 at 9:41 PM Rating: Excellent
Combat is pretty straightforward. The learning curve for everything else can be pretty steep.
#3 Sep 11 2010 at 9:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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FF14 and FF11 are 2 completely different games, nothing at all is the same(in terms of gameplay). But FF is a japanese mmo, unlike wow, many things are different and take up a lot more time, which imo I think it's very realistic and good. Like any other mmo you will feel very lost and confused but not a problem, everyone goes through it, I played FF11 since release, and I was so lost in FF14 beta lol, was actually kinda fun, reminded me of when I started FF11. Honestly don't read too much into what idiots on these forums say, the game is still a baby and it will grow with time. Please don't call FF!$ characters toons lol because they are not :P. My advice is try to get into a LS and explore and make mistakes, don't worry people in FF are a lot different than wow players, more patient and more respectful, well most of the time. Anyways enjoy Eoreza :)
#4 Sep 11 2010 at 9:51 PM Rating: Good
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You'll be fine having not played FFXI. Just as you're fine playing FF13 if you hadn't played FF12. There are similarities (the cities and the races being two huge ones), but not recognizing the similarities isn't hurting you at all.

Edited, Sep 11th 2010 10:52pm by bsphil
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#5 Sep 11 2010 at 9:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Learning curve isn't too steep - its steep relative to most MMOs today yes but its not like you'll be spending decades figuring something out. If this thread is indicative of your ability to communicate I would say you will be ok when you get stuck on something, because you can ask others for help and generally someone will help you...the game, unfortunately (fortunately?), doesn't hold your hand.

And like others have said, I'm an FFXI "Vet" I played the game for 3 years and I'm the biggest noob in FFXIV. So nothing to worry about.

Edited, Sep 11th 2010 11:52pm by SolidMack
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#6 Sep 11 2010 at 10:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
FF14 and FF11 are 2 completely different games, nothing at all is the same(in terms of gameplay).

I stopped reading right there.
#7 Sep 11 2010 at 10:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
FF14 and FF11 are 2 completely different games, nothing at all is the same(in terms of gameplay).

I stopped reading right there.

I like to stop reading at places for no reason as well.
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#8 Sep 11 2010 at 10:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
FF14 and FF11 are 2 completely different games, nothing at all is the same(in terms of gameplay).

I stopped reading right there.


Then keep reading, he makes a good point - apart from "looks" can you please explain what "likes" the games have with each other?
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#9 Sep 11 2010 at 10:04 PM Rating: Good
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This is my first post, but personally I don't feel that there really is too much of a learning curve for anything aside from crafting at this point. Even then, with numerous other people constantly updating databases online, skill requirements and recipes shouldn't be too hard to come by. Crafting is really a hit or miss and finding a good rhythm. Gathering is fairly simple, I've only tried Mining at this point, and even then, it all seems fairly random at this point. Like the poster above, combat is pretty straitforward. Just like any other mmorpg you gain skills and abilities as you level up, the main twist in this game is knowing which skills to combine and use from subclasses. In the end, considering the game is PvE, there isn't too much to worry about any advantages beta testers or ff11 players may have. It's just a game, try and have some fun doing whatever you enjoy most, otherwise you'll stress yourself out with an endless grind of trying to always be the "best".
#10 Sep 11 2010 at 10:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Principle of the games are the same, What I tried to say is that if you played FF11, you won't be able to start up FF14 and play like you've been paying for years. Btw your post was pretty useless and had nothing to do with the topic.
#11 Sep 11 2010 at 10:08 PM Rating: Decent
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thanks for the responses - they're appreciated.

The reason I (like quite a few others) left WoW was because it was getting WAY too easy to do things... My sister and I used to spend HOURS trying to find that one stupid quest item... then a few years later, they decide that quest items should "sparkle" (ooh how pretty? yes, but a little too dumbed down for my liking.)

I'm okay with a learning curve, I tend to keep to myself for the most part anyway - so if I look stupid, it will probably be me complaining to myself anyway =)

And I'll be sure to put a sticky note on my monitor ... "they're NOT toons!"

rob
#12 Sep 11 2010 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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SolidMack wrote:
the game, unfortunately (fortunately?), doesn't hold your hand.
Unfortunately.

There's nothing wrong with taking baby steps with assistance when you're brand new, but you also need to kick people out into the full game early on as well. The way FFXI handles new players is pretty good. It gives pretty decent tutorials, but it's still not easy to find the NPC. You have to already know the NPC is there, or you have to just talk to every single NPC in the city until you find it. If you're new and by chance don't know there's a tutorial NPC there and don't feel like talking to every NPC in the entire city before you leave to kill something, you'll miss out.
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#13 Sep 11 2010 at 10:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Unfortunately.

The xiv tutorial went ahead and told me most of the things that I needed to know about the game. I felt that the unmentioned was common sense. A lot of people seem to have decided that they don't want to do the tutorial though.
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#14 Sep 11 2010 at 10:41 PM Rating: Good
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Deadgye wrote:
Quote:
Unfortunately.

The xiv tutorial went ahead and told me most of the things that I needed to know about the game. I felt that the unmentioned was common sense. A lot of people seem to have decided that they don't want to do the tutorial though.
They didn't do it because they didn't know it was there. Their fault or not, they didn't get the tutorial. That shouldn't be happening, it should be extremely obvious where the tutorial is, possibly requiring you to say that you DON'T want to go through the tutorial if you wish to skip it. Any less is going to wind up confusing people who get lost being thrown into a completely new game.

Edited, Sep 11th 2010 11:41pm by bsphil
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#15 Sep 11 2010 at 10:45 PM Rating: Decent
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It isn't possible to skip the tutorial, it's the first major quest in every city. Your journal lists it at all times until it is completed and, personally, it seemed pretty obvious to me.
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#16 Sep 11 2010 at 11:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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I know in retail I'm gonna be wishing I could skip the stupid emote section of the opening quest = P
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#17 Sep 11 2010 at 11:08 PM Rating: Good
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TwistedOwl wrote:
I know in retail I'm gonna be wishing I could skip the stupid emote section of the opening quest = P

Hahahaha, I as well wish that. What I found funny is that the journal tells you to use different emotes on the people than you did with the first person; and both of them work. At least in Ul'dah.
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#18 Sep 12 2010 at 12:15 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:

Then keep reading, he makes a good point - apart from "looks" can you please explain what "likes" the games have with each other?


Both games stick you to the ground.
Both games don't have swimming.
Both games have lame half-*** "quests".
Both games have slow combat, although 14's is a little faster (come on it's still boring)
Both games have zones.
Mi'qote = Mithra in that they're both matriarchal .

And "looks" is a very big thing between this games. If it were just the same races, ok whatever. It's more than that, even the environments have couter-parts in FFXI.

I really don't know how people are seeing these games as being so unique from one another. The similarities are endless.
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#19 Sep 12 2010 at 12:29 AM Rating: Decent
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I know you're just being sarcastic, but I hated when people said xi's combat was slow. If combat was any faster I wouldn't be able to do half the things I did. In the early levels, sure, it's slower. But in XI I had to coordinate Steal, Hide, Sneak Attack, Trick Attack, Weapon Skills, Acid Bolts, Bloody Bolts, Collaborate/Acomplice, Feint, Utsusemi, Food, etc. It was just as intensive as playing rogue in WoW, based off my personal experiences.
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#20 Sep 12 2010 at 12:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

Both games stick you to the ground.


I stopped reading right there.



Edited, Sep 12th 2010 3:24am by SolidMack
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#21 Sep 12 2010 at 12:59 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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SolidMack wrote:
Deadgye wrote:
Both games stick you to the ground.
I stopped reading right there.
Spent so little time reading it you didn't realize that Deadgye didn't say it?

Holy **** I fail. That's what I get for typing at 2 am. D:

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 11:13am by bsphil
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#22 Sep 12 2010 at 1:00 AM Rating: Decent
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SolidMack wrote:
Deadgye wrote:

Both games stick you to the ground.


I stopped reading right there.



Yeah you tend to do that a lot. I don't really care when you stopped reading. SE is limiting the game with their "run around a 3 foot ledge" out of laziness as usual. The reason they'll never let us get over these areas or fly or anything else is to prevent any further development of the areas. This will also take away from endgame strategies that would involve avoiding things actively.

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 12:00am by GuardianFaith
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#23 Sep 12 2010 at 1:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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bsphil wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
Deadgye wrote:
Both games stick you to the ground.
I stopped reading right there.
Spent so little type reading it you didn't realize that Deadgye didn't say it?

I was wondering the same thing. Smiley: dubious
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#24 Sep 12 2010 at 1:02 AM Rating: Excellent
SolidMack wrote:
Deadgye wrote:

Both games stick you to the ground.


I stopped reading right there.



I stopped reading right there. (It was the last post in the thread, so nyah).

Back on track, though, the one thing that bungs up the learning curve so far in XIV is the random aspect. I'm not sure what it is with SE and random, but it can get old after a while.

In most games, there's a random component. There's a random element to mob AI, there's a random element to whether or not your next hit will successfully land, etc. SE takes it to a whole 'nother level with their games. Some people love it, some people find it extremely frustrating, most fit somewhere in between.

For a lot of people, the idea is that if a developer wants to add depth and/or challenge, they tune explicitly for depth and challenge. They can do this by adjusting the margin for error. They can do it by coding complex systems that are a bit tricky to pin down but once you've got a handle on it, you're good to go. SE does these things as well, but then they throw in the random factor where you can do something once and it goes flawlessly and you can turn around and try to do the exact same thing the same way and it turns out an utter disaster. Crafting in XIV is an example of this. There are all kinds of theories about this or that with regards to how crafting works and how to maximize your chances for success and all that, but by the time you account for the random factor you start to realize that the only way we're going to get it sorted out is when someone with either phenomenal patience or absolutely no life hits the rank cap with a profession and then sits down and runs hundreds of identical tests and records the outcome at every step of the process. In the meantime, Joe Average is in for a lot of guesswork and an awful lot of exploded materials.
#25 Sep 12 2010 at 1:06 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
Deadgye wrote:

Both games stick you to the ground.


I stopped reading right there.



I stopped reading right there. (It was the last post in the thread, so nyah).

Back on track, though, the one thing that bungs up the learning curve so far in XIV is the random aspect. I'm not sure what it is with SE and random, but it can get old after a while.

In most games, there's a random component. There's a random element to mob AI, there's a random element to whether or not your next hit will successfully land, etc. SE takes it to a whole 'nother level with their games. Some people love it, some people find it extremely frustrating, most fit somewhere in between.

For a lot of people, the idea is that if a developer wants to add depth and/or challenge, they tune explicitly for depth and challenge. They can do this by adjusting the margin for error. They can do it by coding complex systems that are a bit tricky to pin down but once you've got a handle on it, you're good to go. SE does these things as well, but then they throw in the random factor where you can do something once and it goes flawlessly and you can turn around and try to do the exact same thing the same way and it turns out an utter disaster. Crafting in XIV is an example of this. There are all kinds of theories about this or that with regards to how crafting works and how to maximize your chances for success and all that, but by the time you account for the random factor you start to realize that the only way we're going to get it sorted out is when someone with either phenomenal patience or absolutely no life hits the rank cap with a profession and then sits down and runs hundreds of identical tests and records the outcome at every step of the process. In the meantime, Joe Average is in for a lot of guesswork and an awful lot of exploded materials.


I spam rapid = P

Well...if it goes really well at the start then I throw some bold in near the end...but yea that's pretty much my crafting strategy...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't -shrugs-

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 3:12am by TwistedOwl
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#26 Sep 12 2010 at 1:13 AM Rating: Default
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Lol i don't know what happened but this topic has officially confused me - I don't know who said what where to who now...my comment was supposed to be in mockery of someone but even I don't know who I was mocking anymore.

Quote:
Joe Average is in for a lot of guesswork and an awful lot of exploded materials.


Well thanks to beta this isn't really true (alteast not for long). Crafting databases are compiled a mountain high already, as i'm sure you know - I think they'll keep building up gradually after retail hits shelves and the average joes will be content campers most the time.

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 3:18am by SolidMack
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#27 Sep 12 2010 at 1:25 AM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
Deadgye wrote:
Both games stick you to the ground.
I stopped reading right there.
Spent so little type reading it you didn't realize that Deadgye didn't say it?


Yea lol sorry Deadgye i don't know how that happened - something glitched when I was quoting Guardian.
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#28 Sep 12 2010 at 3:38 AM Rating: Decent
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You'll be fine once you stop using the word toon...

It's a character, and you'll only be making one...
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#29 Sep 12 2010 at 4:00 AM Rating: Decent
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i've found that with crafting it's not a matter of knowing what combines <that's easy> it's actually getting it to combine by figure out what the h#ll SE wants you to actually do in their crafting mini-game of h#ll.

mining and woodcutting games were pretty straightforward, figure out where the item is while the scale goes up/down and hit it.

crafting seems to be "wait" till the color is constant then select an action, but even that doesn't work some of the time.
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#30 Sep 12 2010 at 4:02 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
You'll be fine once you stop using the word toon...

It's a character, and you'll only be making one...


it's all the same thing... toon, character/char, avatar, pc... doesn't really matter what it's called as long as ppl know what you're talking about.
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#31 Sep 12 2010 at 4:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Crafting databases are compiled a mountain high already

...well, that's the point. Why does the community have to finish the job SE evidently didn't?
#32 Sep 12 2010 at 4:46 AM Rating: Good
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gerwenscalebane wrote:
Quote:
You'll be fine once you stop using the word toon...

It's a character, and you'll only be making one...


it's all the same thing... toon, character/char, avatar, pc... doesn't really matter what it's called as long as ppl know what you're talking about.


I don't reckon we take kindly to toontown players roundabout these parts, ya here?
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#33 Sep 12 2010 at 5:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
Crafting databases are compiled a mountain high already

...well, that's the point. Why does the community have to finish the job SE evidently didn't?


...Because people do it for every MMO in existence. People really need to get over themselves. FFXI/XIV are not the first MMOs to have online databases, even MMOs with databases IN them have offsite databases.

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 4:53am by Theonehio
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#34 Sep 12 2010 at 7:12 AM Rating: Decent
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People are so used to having everything given to them on a silver platter. It also seems that when things aren't served on a silver platter, it's now called "bad game design".
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#35 Sep 12 2010 at 7:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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IMO you might be better off having not played FFXI, one of the hardest things for me is seing similar character models (to include Mobs) that aren't exactly the same. It messes with my head a bit at times. A few of the story lines I did in Beta also had me thinking of things in XI and then messing me up too.

So as I said I think you might actually enjoy XIV more than those of us who have expectations and memories from XI.
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#36 Sep 12 2010 at 7:48 AM Rating: Good
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To answer the OP:

Yes, you will be behind the curve for not playing FFXI, be prepared to learn quite a bit in the beginning it will be confusing for everyone that hasnt played it, but FFXI experience definitely does help.

Small tips:

If you just get in the mindset that the UI was intended to be used with a controller and is keyboard centric, not mouse, that will help get you used to the interface, and in the long run I find this to be one of the only games where keyboard alone > keyboard + mouse.

Understand the difference between guildleve "quests" and plot "missions". There was a distinction made between quests and missions in ffxi, missions were critical to advancing plot and in some times character advancement, quests gave small rewards, were occasionally repeatable and gave rep, missions were major and quests were commonplace. Missions were very difficult to know where to pick up if you weren't looking at some knowledge base online, they start by talking to one of the MANY NPCs under the proper conditions.

Classes/Jobs/Levels: In ffxi you had job levels, your character could switch jobs (class) at their house and it was a lot like switching characters in other games, you still had your rep and missions you completed and stuff (some physical attributes) but the overwhelming majority of your attributes were totally switched when switching jobs. ffxiV kept the concept of having different jobs on the same character at different levels (switch on the fly by changing your equipped weapon) but added in a physical level to give you some common attributes that you dont lose when switching jobs (a level 75 white mage wont be switching to a level 1 monk and be basically at ground zero in this game like they could in ffxi)

Combat is similar, but faster in ffxiv, it still seems to be mostly one at a time, and a monster that is an even match to you (at your same level) is really an even match... no grinding out 3 or 4 guys at once your same level or higher, think one at a time, lower than you and watch yourself while you do it (mobs in ffxi and ffxiv are "meaner" for their level than most mmos)

Crafting: You will be looking for recipes online, in ffxi this was the case, its also the case in ffxiv... crafting is very similar in concept, crystals or shards are used in conjunction with a bunch of materials, you select all the mats click the craft button and in ffxi it attempted to make whatever that combo yields, in ffxiv it does the same only its not automatic it goes into a minigame. You can find ppls suggestions/strategies on the minigame yourself, but the concept is that you mix materials are not told what it will create until you finish, and recipes are not collected for you, you WILL be looking online for recipes if you craft.

Theres a lot more, but yeah playing ffxi is a definite help, its not even close to exactly the same, but imo its bananas to think that they're as different as say ffxiv and wow... things (a lot of em) will carry over despite what you're being led to believe... I hope this helps...
#37 Sep 12 2010 at 8:49 AM Rating: Good
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about crafting:

I have played a multitude of MMO's and in every game I have at least tried to be good at crafting something. I personally don't get why everyone seems to want the easy route for this? Like in Warhammer online, you always knew what the next recipe was to max your efficiency because the game told you so, same thing in LOTR. "make this!, now make this!" I found it extremely boring and all the player strategy went out the window.

When I leveled Alchemy to 103 in FFXI I was always on the hunt for new recipes, I had to plan around what recipes were popular vs. unknown, what the other alchemists were making and what would become the "next big thing". There was no one telling me what to make, I had to play the market and the system the best I could and I LOVED it. My best moments while crafting was finding a new recipe no one had thought of making yet and I was racing through the levels while making a profit! Sure it always took a bit more research and some database browsing, but I find this "manual" system MUCH more rewarding.
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#38 Sep 12 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Decent
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GusMorgan wrote:
about crafting:

I have played a multitude of MMO's and in every game I have at least tried to be good at crafting something. I personally don't get why everyone seems to want the easy route for this? Like in Warhammer online, you always knew what the next recipe was to max your efficiency because the game told you so, same thing in LOTR. "make this!, now make this!" I found it extremely boring and all the player strategy went out the window.

When I leveled Alchemy to 103 in FFXI I was always on the hunt for new recipes, I had to plan around what recipes were popular vs. unknown, what the other alchemists were making and what would become the "next big thing". There was no one telling me what to make, I had to play the market and the system the best I could and I LOVED it. My best moments while crafting was finding a new recipe no one had thought of making yet and I was racing through the levels while making a profit! Sure it always took a bit more research and some database browsing, but I find this "manual" system MUCH more rewarding.


Yeah it's a shame though since everyone has grown used to "here let me put it on a platter for you" gameplay so now anything that requires work = "taboo and archaic". Different strokes etc.
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#39 Sep 12 2010 at 8:57 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I stopped reading right there. (It was the last post in the thread, so nyah).

Back on track, though, the one thing that bungs up the learning curve so far in XIV is the random aspect. I'm not sure what it is with SE and random, but it can get old after a while.

In most games, there's a random component. There's a random element to mob AI, there's a random element to whether or not your next hit will successfully land, etc. SE takes it to a whole 'nother level with their games. Some people love it, some people find it extremely frustrating, most fit somewhere in between.

For a lot of people, the idea is that if a developer wants to add depth and/or challenge, they tune explicitly for depth and challenge. They can do this by adjusting the margin for error. They can do it by coding complex systems that are a bit tricky to pin down but once you've got a handle on it, you're good to go. SE does these things as well, but then they throw in the random factor where you can do something once and it goes flawlessly and you can turn around and try to do the exact same thing the same way and it turns out an utter disaster. Crafting in XIV is an example of this. There are all kinds of theories about this or that with regards to how crafting works and how to maximize your chances for success and all that, but by the time you account for the random factor you start to realize that the only way we're going to get it sorted out is when someone with either phenomenal patience or absolutely no life hits the rank cap with a profession and then sits down and runs hundreds of identical tests and records the outcome at every step of the process. In the meantime, Joe Average is in for a lot of guesswork and an awful lot of exploded materials.


Would you please shut up while I face east to finish making apple pies? Jeez.
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#40 Sep 12 2010 at 9:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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SO... I'm a big final fantasy fan ... but never played 11 cause I always swore I would never buy a game and then pay to play it...

5 years of WoW and 2 years of freedom from it later - I have preordered FF14 and even have a new computer on way so that I have a chance to be ABLE to play it.


lol wut? you would never buy a game and pay to play? but you played WoW for 5 years?

that aside, we're all the same, its a new game, we are all gonna be hitting the trial and error button alot before we know what we like (or the cookie cutter job comes into play) we're all here to have fun and explore and try out new things
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#41 Sep 12 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
SO... I'm a big final fantasy fan ... but never played 11 cause I always swore I would never buy a game and then pay to play it...

5 years of WoW and 2 years of freedom from it later - I have preordered FF14 and even have a new computer on way so that I have a chance to be ABLE to play it. ?


lol wut? you would never buy a game and pay to play? but you played WoW for 5 years

that aside, we're all the same, its a new game, we are all gonna be hitting the trial and error button alot before we know what we like (or the cookie cutter job comes into play) we're all here to have fun and explore and try out new things
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Server : Asura


Was trying to be funny RyderDecree... my sister convinced me to start WoW and 5 years (and many many billing statements) later, realized that I had completely backtracked on my opinion of paying to play a game.

I really appreciate all the information I've received from my original post. Seems like regardless of expectations, it's better to make sure I have none, while hoping that I can be quick enough to pick up a whole lot of information!
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