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#52 Sep 12 2010 at 6:46 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Every complainant that has been posted has been about a game mechanic that they dont like

Blatant lie and you know that. Stop trying to make us feel like we want WoW or something. We've spoken a lot about the UIs ease of use, about the engine's performance, about keyboard bindings, about controller limitations w/ the chat log, bazaar-hall performance, about coding, and so forth. SE has not touched upon these things.
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#53 Sep 12 2010 at 6:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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dragoonxix wrote:

At what point are they not listening? Is it because they wont answer your questions or answer what your saying? I dont remember a person ever having to say anything to listen. Every complainant that has been posted has been about a game mechanic that they dont like. My point is that you can never judge somthing until it has been completely finished. Who is to say that the laggy mouse, the UI lag, and the AH are not either fixed or updated upon release or even added in the game disc. Its like watching a movie trailer you get really excited about it or your like blah but then the movie could be awesome or suck you do not know until its done.


If a movie cost $50 plus a subscription fee... you'd better believe I'd wait to make sure it was good first.

They aren't listening because they won't respond to their community. It's that simple. They've had this problem forever, everyone hoped that some headway was being made with the premier site program (btw Zam is one), where SE made high claims that they had people whose job it was to just sit there and read them all day and communicate issues to the development team.

*tumbleweed*

They weren't even chiming in on their OWN beta forums to address the concerns or problems of the people there whose feedback they wanted.

I've played in beta or alpha for 3 other major MMOs (some more major than others). The one thing they all had in common was the dev team, or community manager in the case of multi-national companies, speaking regularly in forum posts, responding to users even if it was just to tell them to ignore something.

With SE? Just more tumbleweeds.
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#54 Sep 12 2010 at 7:39 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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SolidMack wrote:
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I do know, that all those MMO's in the last 10 years that you are referring to haven't done so well.


This. I don't get it when the last decade has shown us nothing but clone after clone in the MMO genre and clearly nothing has taken the cake. SE obviously did the right thing by steering clear of that path because its clearly not working. Now they may have included (or excluded) certain things that you don't view as a step forward (or maybe you view them as a step back) but for all we know, the entire game as a whole could revolutionize the MMO genre which to me has been stale ever since WoW was such a success.
I can understand people being excited for the 22nd, and being optimistic that there will be an array of bug fixes between the 19th and 22nd that will allow the launch day to be very successful... but revolutionizing the genre?

Come on now. Don't fanboy THAT hard on us.

Archmage Callinon wrote:
They've had this problem forever, everyone hoped that some headway was being made with the premier site program (btw Zam is one), where SE made high claims that they had people whose job it was to just sit there and read them all day and communicate issues to the development team.
Yeah, I remember SE announcing a team dedicated to community outreach for FFXI a year or so ago. That program was dead on arrival...

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 8:41pm by bsphil
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#55 Sep 12 2010 at 8:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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The main problem with MMO's and even this one is that it is subscription based. And when something is actually wrong with an account, we will all get a canned response, and when we reply back, we will never hear from them again. Why are we paying a monthly fee, when games like this do not even give an effort to support us? I know it isn't released yet, I understand. The game itself has some things going for it, it doesn't feel like another wow clone.

Unfortunately, it does remind you of porting over the FFXI database, adding a new graphic engine, adjusting classes, and then applying duct tape to link it all together. Result: Lots of nostalgia and lots of WTF, your UI is the worst thing I've seen since 2002?!?

The best thing about FFXI was that you almost always had to be in a party to get exp. This was also the worst aspect at times. All they had to do to make this game superior, is to make the leve quests group mandatory. That way if you want to go and grind by yourself, fine, but if you want more exp and quests, then you need to group. That is the only thing that can/could set this game apart from the rest.

#56 Sep 12 2010 at 8:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Hmm... I can see this is really just a community/moderation problem. There needs to be some "beta feedback control", and yes I'm aware there's a sub-forum just for that, but there is clearly not a sticky thread for feedback/bugs. Imo, it would cut down a lot of threads like this.

Example:

Quote:
Subject: ZAM Community's FFXIV Beta Bug Feedback thread
Body:

Technical Issue
- Hardware Mouse (Reduce mouse lag)
- NPC Crashing game "?????" fixed (patch 9000)
- Full Screen Alt Tab Crash fixed (patch 29,000)

Community Wishes (more convenience)
- Add Toggle Mouselook option
- Add Weapon Primary/Secondary Set Slot to change more conveniently


Hopefully, someone out there, can see some importance of this.................. >.<

So people that wish to complain about those problems will see that it's recognized on the ZAM forums with just ONE thread. haha



Edited, Sep 12th 2010 10:45pm by Rainjur
#57 Sep 12 2010 at 8:51 PM Rating: Good
Rainjur wrote:
Hmm... I can see this is really just a community/moderation problem. There needs to be some "beta feedback control", and yes I'm aware there's a sub-forum just for that, but there is clearly not a sticky thread for feedback/bugs. Imo, it would cut down a lot of threads like this.

Example:

Quote:
Subject: ZAM Community's FFXIV Beta Bug Feedback thread
Body:

Technical Issue
- Hardware Mouse (Reduce mouse lag)
- NPC Crashing game "?????" fixed (patch 9000)
- Full Screen Alt Tab Crash fixed (patch 29,000)

Community Wishes (more convenience)
- Add Toggle Mouselook option
- Add Weapon Primary/Secondary Set Slot to change more conveniently


Hopefully, someone out there, can see some importance of this.................. >.<

So people that wish to complain about those problems will see that it's recognized on the ZAM forums with just ONE thread. haha



Edited, Sep 12th 2010 10:45pm by Rainjur


I would TOTALLY do that, except the thread would get nuked by flamers and trolls like the other complaint threads. That's why people feel they need to create a new clean thread, so they can have a chance to discuss it, rather than constantly defend themselves.
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#58 Sep 12 2010 at 9:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Rainjur wrote:
Hmm... I can see this is really just a community/moderation problem. There needs to be some "beta feedback control", and yes I'm aware there's a sub-forum just for that, but there is clearly not a sticky thread for feedback/bugs. Imo, it would cut down a lot of threads like this.

Example:

Quote:
Subject: ZAM Community's FFXIV Beta Bug Feedback thread
Body:

Technical Issue
- Hardware Mouse (Reduce mouse lag)
- NPC Crashing game "?????" fixed (patch 9000)
- Full Screen Alt Tab Crash fixed (patch 29,000)

Community Wishes (more convenience)
- Add Toggle Mouselook option
- Add Weapon Primary/Secondary Set Slot to change more conveniently


Hopefully, someone out there, can see some importance of this.................. >.<

So people that wish to complain about those problems will see that it's recognized on the ZAM forums with just ONE thread. haha



Edited, Sep 12th 2010 10:45pm by Rainjur


If squarenix let us post on their forums during the open beta, this most likely, would not be something we would be talking about. Imagine all of the information that has been lost, because they ostracized open beta players.

*I'm not much of a flamer, I just see a lot of obvious things.







Edited, Sep 12th 2010 11:03pm by Parsalyn
#59 Sep 12 2010 at 9:10 PM Rating: Default
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I can understand people being excited for the 22nd, and being optimistic that there will be an array of bug fixes between the 19th and 22nd that will allow the launch day to be very successful... but revolutionizing the genre?


I said it might, you don't know that just as well as no one here does - still surprises me how often you spend time here for someone who hates the game so much.

Quote:
Don't fanboy THAT hard on us.


I'm a believer in the universe balancing everything; someone barely survives a car accident, someone else dies - someone dies, someone else is born - someone trolls an FFXIV forum, someone else fanboys it up....i'm just here for the balance bud.
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#60 Sep 12 2010 at 9:23 PM Rating: Excellent
I guess you're helping troll the forum too?

Look, we're commenting on the game's flaws. They are there. Will they be fixed? Maybe. Will they be fixed soon? A bigger maybe. We are realists who know how SE does things. The same team is working on updates as the FFXI team, as we all know the grief we went through with them ignoring player complaints about sensible things (not lofty things like you guys claim).
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#61SolidMack, Posted: Sep 12 2010 at 9:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Little of both - not as well as you though. Go complain where SE might actually listen - I agree with most all the complaints spreading around, but you don't think SE will see the 50 other threads on the same subjects? yea.
#62 Sep 13 2010 at 5:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Rukkstar wrote:
I still don't get what all the complaints are over.. what is wrong with the UI? Is it just people coming from WoW who can't be bothered to learn something different? I think the UI is fine /shrug. I get some lag, but I think thats graphics lag nothing else.


I play FFXI with a gamepad and I still think FFXIV's UI is bad.
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#63 Sep 13 2010 at 6:02 AM Rating: Good
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Myzldas wrote:
Enyyx wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
but what is the point of this topic?


The point of the topic is to let SE know why they're losing another 2 customers. I don't understand why people on forums like this insist on berating people for bothering to post their thoughts.

We can't complain that SE doesn't listen if we're not telling them.

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 6:32pm by Enyyx


they berate them because most people that state their opinions about the game are most likely comparing FFXIV to ANY other mmo instead of thinking outside the box and even giving it a fair shot, basing it on a beta, and talk about the same things that are posted ...at least... 3 times a day (thats being conservative)

personally, i dont mind the UI, took a bit to get adjusted, but im working with it fine, the only problem i have is that cant "organize" my items, but other than that... its something new.. gotta learn it, oh well, grow up, learn some new tricks, no point in whining about it lol.


It's not that the UI is "different" it's that it makes cardinal mistakes of UI design such as making getting from "point A" to "point B" within the UI require more actions than are necessary.

FFXI did a gamepad based right (I won't go into it's mouse support, but they did the gamepad UI correctly) For some reason SE choose to ignore that and make this horrible.. thing. instead.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#64 Sep 13 2010 at 6:11 AM Rating: Default
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I probably wouldn't waste a lot of resources and time trying to make a perfect UI for a beta version that will be scrapped in a week either... maybe it's just me...
#65 Sep 13 2010 at 6:24 AM Rating: Decent
To be honest the only gripe I really have is the concern of how easy it may/may not be to level other classes. As your physical level rises, it makes it harder to really earn EXP for any newer classes you take on. Plus it kind of hinders any possibility of grouping with friends who just started. I haven't actually gotten that far yet to fully test it all but I'm still concerned about this. If someone could fill me in on how it might work at later levels (Where your physical level is really high and you're starting on a new Lv.1 class.) by all means please do. Other than this it could be the layout for the bazaar system and lack of proper blisting features. All except maybe the bazaar and levels will probably be fixed in retail tho so everything else is a minor gripe for me.

Before hand I was considering canceling my pre-order but I'm excited about it all now.
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#66 Sep 13 2010 at 6:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
I probably wouldn't waste a lot of resources and time trying to make a perfect UI for a beta version that will be scrapped in a week either... maybe it's just me...


i lol'd. this is the UI that is going live. i'd be willing to bet my car.
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#67 Sep 13 2010 at 6:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
I probably wouldn't waste a lot of resources and time trying to make a perfect UI for a beta version that will be scrapped in a week either... maybe it's just me...


Do you really think that SE has two version of FFXIV. The one who we play now, OB, and the one who is shipped to the retailers at the moment ? If so, this means they need to develop and maintain two versions, I have an hard time to believe that.
#68 Sep 13 2010 at 6:33 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

It's not that the UI is "different" it's that it makes cardinal mistakes of UI design such as making getting from "point A" to "point B" within the UI require more actions than are necessary.

FFXI did a gamepad based right (I won't go into it's mouse support, but they did the gamepad UI correctly) For some reason SE choose to ignore that and make this horrible.. thing. instead.


This. They insisted on re-inventing the wheel once again.
Thinking they did a better job before in FFXI, it's amazing to see they did a worse job than 8 years ago.
#69 Sep 13 2010 at 6:33 AM Rating: Default
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Shoomy wrote:
ShonaSeraph wrote:
I probably wouldn't waste a lot of resources and time trying to make a perfect UI for a beta version that will be scrapped in a week either... maybe it's just me...


Do you really think that SE has two version of FFXIV. The one who we play now, OB, and the one who is shipped to the retailers at the moment ? If so, this means they need to develop and maintain two versions, I have an hard time to believe that.


I'm not saying there's two versions. I'm simply implying that what we currently see won't be exactly as it is on release. You think they'd release it this way? Honestly?
Would be like Toyota selling a car without a steering wheel, or one of the tires. It's just not acceptable.
They know it.
#70 Sep 13 2010 at 6:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Shoomy wrote:
ShonaSeraph wrote:
I probably wouldn't waste a lot of resources and time trying to make a perfect UI for a beta version that will be scrapped in a week either... maybe it's just me...


Do you really think that SE has two version of FFXIV. The one who we play now, OB, and the one who is shipped to the retailers at the moment ? If so, this means they need to develop and maintain two versions, I have an hard time to believe that.


I think there are. Not in the sense that fits with the OP argument though. And not some magical version where everything is perfect. I think there are too many things missing content-wise for me to believe this is close to the retail version. Ghost towns & areas scattered about the map, useless NPCs and no sight of those cool-looking NPCS filling up the towns with life like we saw in the trailer, beastmen are hiding, even the boat ride is void of life aside from the cool thunderstorms. Seems like a shell of the possible retail version and that's why I think that way. I'd truly be shocked to see this exact version pop up on my screen on the 22nd. If it is I'll be the first to say I'm wrong on that...

However the OP argument wasn't so much about content & more about the problems. And I don't know what to expect in the retail version as far as the UI & other issues are concerned. These are issues I'm worried about too and I don't know about other people, but when I talk about this not being the retail version I'm looking more at content. I can only hope some of these bigger issues are better in retail as well, but I'm not gonna tell people that's a fact because I simply can't know.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 8:44am by TwistedOwl
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#71 Sep 13 2010 at 6:43 AM Rating: Good
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... Except I wouldn't compare this to a Toyota missing a steering wheel, but more like a Toyota that is currently on a test run in a track and just realized it is missing the breaks.
#72 Sep 13 2010 at 6:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
Shoomy wrote:
ShonaSeraph wrote:
I probably wouldn't waste a lot of resources and time trying to make a perfect UI for a beta version that will be scrapped in a week either... maybe it's just me...


Do you really think that SE has two version of FFXIV. The one who we play now, OB, and the one who is shipped to the retailers at the moment ? If so, this means they need to develop and maintain two versions, I have an hard time to believe that.


I'm not saying there's two versions. I'm simply implying that what we currently see won't be exactly as it is on release. You think they'd release it this way? Honestly?
Would be like Toyota selling a car without a steering wheel, or one of the tires. It's just not acceptable.
They know it.


Call me skeptical or a pessimist, but I do think most of what we have now in OB will be there in release. The only thing I think will be different (at least I hope) is content, because it seems some content is locked.

I hope I am wrong though and will be pleasant surprised if a lot of issues are gone with the release :)

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 8:52am by Shoomy
#73 Sep 13 2010 at 6:57 AM Rating: Default
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... and just like FFXI only the gold players are going to stick around to learn the game, making it one of the best communities in any mmmo...

I'm sincerely glad that so many "show-me-how-or-I'll-quit" players aren't going to be around. Hurray for less shouting the moment people log in asking "/sh WHAT DO I DO?!" (how they even figure out the shout command is a mystery to me)
#74 Sep 13 2010 at 6:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
dragoonxix wrote:
Here is the funny thing none of us are paying for anything at this point. We are all playing for free until the game is released. So why would SE listen to a population that a good portion of it will not be playing on release. Not due to the gameplay but due to the fact that its not F2P.

Edited, Sep 12th 2010 8:26pm by dragoonxix


Here's the thing. You're partially right, a lot of people are going to be in open beta just to play the game for free and have no intention of ever laying down any money for it. Fine, forget them.

The rest of us who are expressing disappointment at this point are the group that were preparing to lay down $50.. $75.. $100+ on launch day and beyond as well as pay almost $200 per year to play. We aren't doing that now and the reasons are clearly stated in several threads here and elsewhere.

It was never my intention to get a freebie demo of the game, I went into closed beta with the intention of providing feedback and tracking down bugs, just like I do in every other beta I'm part of. Not being allowed to do either of those things was the first slap in the face to myself and others of us who joined in beta with the intention of being beta testers. It was my original intent to purchase the collector's edition and then a week later purchase the standard edition to get both in-game items. I was working on re-establishing my FFXI account (unbelievably difficult as it turns out) to try and get that in-game item as well. I also have my FFXIII code for yet another in-game item. And I had a friend of mine doing exactly the same thing. We were all set to go in full-force, I even built a new computer specifically to play this game on and he's been pricing one out himself.

Now we're going to wait and see. We won't be getting the collector's edition, we won't be getting the standard edition, we won't be re-enabling our FFXI accounts. Maybe a year or two down the line we'll re-examine the game and see if it's worth paying full retail plus a subscription fee, but we're not going to just pony up almost $150 on a game we currently know to be unenjoyable, it'd be a poor decision on our part to reward this by buying it.

When a company won't listen to your words, you speak with your wallet.


By far the most sensible thing said so far. Period.
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#75 Sep 13 2010 at 7:04 AM Rating: Default
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Pontipy wrote:
... and just like FFXI only the gold players are going to stick around to learn the game, making it one of the best communities in any mmmo...

I'm sincerely glad that so many "show-me-how-or-I'll-quit" players aren't going to be around. Hurray for less shouting the moment people log in asking "/sh WHAT DO I DO?!" (how they even figure out the shout command is a mystery to me)


Ya exactly. I swear some people only play WoW so they can say "I play the most popular MMO in the world!"

I could personally care less if this game has 20 million players, or 1 million.
I can only see the people on one server, so if there's 500 other servers, it's pretty irrelevant.
The counterargument to this is that they need money for future upgrades and content... blah blah... FFXI had plenty of content and expansions, at a higher rate than WoW I might add.

FFXI was such a fantastic community, I hope for the same here. Unfortunately we'll have to wait a month or two till all the whiny babies get done trolling forums and their one-month free time in-game is up.
#76 Sep 13 2010 at 7:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not canceling my preorder, but I am thinking about just holding onto the box for a month or so. When this game launches and people realize that a lot of the problems they've rationalized away with "it's just a beta!" haven't magically disappeared...let's just say these boards will be interesting enough all on their own.

You think posts like the OP are bad? Just wait a couple weeks when they all turn into "I told you so"s...
#77 Sep 13 2010 at 7:16 AM Rating: Default
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If you can't even be bothered to play the actual game when it comes out, why do you think anyone here would be interested in your opinion, let alone SE!?
No I think that at this stage people going on some forum and telling us "well I won't be playing!" is just trolling.

Also to people saying "I am not going to buy it! I am going to wait and see..." that is dumb, how are you going to tell if you like it in 6 months or a year or w/e, oh yeah you are still going to have to buy it anyway...
Not buying it at all is fine, but don't expect SE to go "Oh no some people didn't buy the game for PC at launch we have to change it!" never going to happen because SE make console games and the PS3 version is 6 months away, and only the people who play the PC version for those 6 months and give them feedback have a chance of changing the game NOT the people who didn't buy it! /doublefaceplam
#78 Sep 13 2010 at 7:16 AM Rating: Decent
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other than write down a game feed back to make the game better or write down a guide, share class information, there are NO point to say you or any body will cnacel pre-order cos ppl dont give a **** about that serious
#79ShonaSeraph, Posted: Sep 13 2010 at 7:21 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I read that 3 times and didn't understand it.
#80 Sep 13 2010 at 7:23 AM Rating: Decent
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
Pontipy wrote:
... and just like FFXI only the gold players are going to stick around to learn the game, making it one of the best communities in any mmmo...

I'm sincerely glad that so many "show-me-how-or-I'll-quit" players aren't going to be around. Hurray for less shouting the moment people log in asking "/sh WHAT DO I DO?!" (how they even figure out the shout command is a mystery to me)


Ya exactly. I swear some people only play WoW so they can say "I play the most popular MMO in the world!"

I could personally care less if this game has 20 million players, or 1 million.
I can only see the people on one server, so if there's 500 other servers, it's pretty irrelevant.
The counterargument to this is that they need money for future upgrades and content... blah blah... FFXI had plenty of content and expansions, at a higher rate than WoW I might add.
FFXI was such a fantastic community, I hope for the same here. Unfortunately we'll have to wait a month or two till all the whiny babies get done trolling forums and their one-month free time in-game is up.


Not even close.
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#81 Sep 13 2010 at 7:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
Shneibel wrote:
other than write down a game feed back to make the game better or write down a guide, share class information, there are NO point to say you or any body will cnacel pre-order cos ppl dont give a **** about that serious


I read that 3 times and didn't understand it.
I can't tell either way which side of the conversation you're on... but it's safe to say you played WoW.


It says what I said directly above it essentialy.
#82 Sep 13 2010 at 7:25 AM Rating: Good
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
Pontipy wrote:
... and just like FFXI only the gold players are going to stick around to learn the game, making it one of the best communities in any mmmo...

I'm sincerely glad that so many "show-me-how-or-I'll-quit" players aren't going to be around. Hurray for less shouting the moment people log in asking "/sh WHAT DO I DO?!" (how they even figure out the shout command is a mystery to me)


Ya exactly. I swear some people only play WoW so they can say "I play the most popular MMO in the world!"

I could personally care less if this game has 20 million players, or 1 million.
I can only see the people on one server, so if there's 500 other servers, it's pretty irrelevant.
The counterargument to this is that they need money for future upgrades and content... blah blah... FFXI had plenty of content and expansions, at a higher rate than WoW I might add.

FFXI was such a fantastic community, I hope for the same here. Unfortunately we'll have to wait a month or two till all the whiny babies get done trolling forums and their one-month free time in-game is up.


Hmmm, you might want to consider Vanguard then, I hear everyone gets to play on the same server.

Seriously though, I hear a lot about how WoW players are just babies and how FFXI was the "best game evar!", but I never could figure out one thing. If FFXI is so great...what's keeping you people from it? It's still up and running, just got a major update I hear.

Why are you so anxious to leave such an awesome "community" (represented by such shining stars as Ahby, HallieXIV, and yourself I presume) for this new one?
#83 Sep 13 2010 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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other than write down a game feed back to make the game better or write down a guide, share class information, there are NO point to say you or any body will cnacel pre-order cos ppl dont give a **** about that serious


Not completely true. All those whiners and quitters are legitimate stakeholders, just as you and I am.
They quit for a reason, and some have a pretty good claim: some crucial parts of this game suck.
Being more on the social community side of the playing experience, I can weather some of the minor flaws,
and the obvious bugs don't bother me at all. But there is quite some stuff that I know will seriously
bother me in the long run. Like having to click+select 5 fricking times to sell a single popoto to a NPC.
That's just bad design.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 9:27am by Rinsui
#84 Sep 13 2010 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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I don't see what's wrong with people holding onto their wallet till a later date... and especially when you don't always have to actually try something to see whether it is suitable for you. Considering that most of the players complaining already have a taste of the beta, they will only need to keep an eye on the boards to see whether if SE touched up on their current flaws or not. ;)

Having said that, a MMORPG is a growing product. If given an opportunity to be better, it will be better than what it came out as in launch. I think that's what most people are waiting for... for FFXIV to mature after an amount of time.

As some of the previous posters have already stated, it is a different way of showing that the playerbase won't stand the flaws... and it is one that works as well. They don't necessarily have to stay to chew out stuff they don't like... especially when it'll cost them money. :P
#85 Sep 13 2010 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
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Reasonable, reasonable.
#86 Sep 13 2010 at 7:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Redyoshi wrote:

Hmmm, you might want to consider Vanguard then, I hear everyone gets to play on the same server.

Seriously though, I hear a lot about how WoW players are just babies and how FFXI was the "best game evar!", but I never could figure out one thing. If FFXI is so great...what's keeping you people from it? It's still up and running, just got a major update I hear.

Why are you so anxious to leave such an awesome "community" (represented by such shining stars as Ahby, HallieXIV, and yourself I presume) for this new one?


Well... are you going to magically be playing on more than one server at a time? What difference does amount of servers make? If it's a good game I enjoy, I could care less if there are 1000 other players, or 4 billion.

Who said I was anxious to leave FFXI?
#87 Sep 13 2010 at 7:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
Pontipy wrote:
... and just like FFXI only the gold players are going to stick around to learn the game, making it one of the best communities in any mmmo...

I'm sincerely glad that so many "show-me-how-or-I'll-quit" players aren't going to be around. Hurray for less shouting the moment people log in asking "/sh WHAT DO I DO?!" (how they even figure out the shout command is a mystery to me)


Ya exactly. I swear some people only play WoW so they can say "I play the most popular MMO in the world!"

I could personally care less if this game has 20 million players, or 1 million.
I can only see the people on one server, so if there's 500 other servers, it's pretty irrelevant.
The counterargument to this is that they need money for future upgrades and content... blah blah... FFXI had plenty of content and expansions, at a higher rate than WoW I might add.

FFXI was such a fantastic community, I hope for the same here. Unfortunately we'll have to wait a month or two till all the whiny babies get done trolling forums and their one-month free time in-game is up.


The majority here aren't asking for a WoW-esque experience. I don't think anybody wants a glowing trail to the next update in their quest or a flashing sign over a quest npcs head. A helpful hint in the quest log or a marker on a map would be helpful. I'd also like to see a quest system in place to help my character level from 1 - 50 without having to rely on grouping (i really don't have time to play 30+ hours a week) or mindless grinding. I understand that there are players, not many, who like to grind and that's great. We'll have to see if there is such a system in place when the game comes out, and how intuitive it really is. Every time I have to leave the game to go look something up is not immersion, it's diversion.

Also, let's talk about the crafting system. A recipe book would be nice, even if the recipe book is empty and populates after a recipe is learned or quested for. You can make a fantastically interactive crafting system, with tons of interdependencies, and nuances -- but if I have to leave the game just to make basic items -- yea, f that.

I'd like to reiterate that the immersion argument is fallacious. Here is why. Every time I have to leave the game to look up something on wiki -- there goes my immersion. A lack of intuitiveness and creativity on behalf of the development staff is the only reason why these modern features are being left out.

"Why should we have to design and implement a recipe book or a functioning way point/quest system when the community will just do it for us."

It's just pure laziness.

(I'd like to point out, I don't play WoW -- Though I have played several MMOs in the past decade)

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 9:36am by measureups
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#88 Sep 13 2010 at 7:41 AM Rating: Decent
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boriss wrote:
[quote]-

I was going to pre-order but i will wait to see how things go, plus wait for pc sales on boxing day or something so it doesn't burn me quite as much. I had to decide between laser eye and a new computer, let's just say my computer won't last my life so that's money i'm not willing to spend right now lol


Hate to tell you this but your laser eye surgery won't last forever, either.
#89ShonaSeraph, Posted: Sep 13 2010 at 7:42 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You want EZ-mode where you don't have to think about anything is what I'm gathering.
#90 Sep 13 2010 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Every time I have to leave the game to go look something up is not immersion, it's diversion.

Also, let's talk about the crafting system. A recipe book would be nice, even if the recipe book is empty and populates after a recipe is learned or quested for. You can make a fantastically interactive crafting system, with tons of interdependencies, and nuances -- but if I have to leave the game just to make basic items -- yea, f that.

I'd like to reiterate that the immersion argument is fallacious. Here is why. Every time I have to leave the game to look up something on wiki -- there goes my immersion. A lack of intuitiveness and creativity on behalf of the development staff is the only reason why these modern features are being left out.

"Why should we have to design and implement a recipe book or a functioning way point/quest system when the community will just do it for us."

It's just pure laziness.


Wow. That's pretty much exactly what I tried to tell them yesterday.
Our complaints are not about holding our hands.
Every single idiot on this MMORPG knows how to google for guild recipes and the like.
The point is: why the **** does he have to do that?

Quote:
No, you learn and memorize.

Like, 400 crafting recipes.

Quote:
Your complaints are just pure laziness.

Running out of excuses for missing features expected in any modern MMORPG, we resort to insults, eh?

Quote:
If you can't play a lot, expect to suck... sorry, but it's true.

Luckily, it is not. At least in that regard, SE seems to have learnt their lesson.


Edited, Sep 13th 2010 9:48am by Rinsui
#91 Sep 13 2010 at 7:52 AM Rating: Default
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Rinsui wrote:
Running out of excuses for missing features expected in any modern MMORPG, we resort to insults, eh?



No not really... just tired of all the "I expect this" and "I expect that".

You get what you get, if you don't like it, don't play.
Whining to random strangers and making 18,000+ posts in a forum for a game you despise is quite frankly sad, and in desperate need of a life.
#92 Sep 13 2010 at 7:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
You want EZ-mode where you don't have to think about anything is what I'm gathering.


How does having to leave the game to look stuff up constantly equate to "hard" mode? Seriously, think about it.

Quote:
You want to level from 1-50 with no effort, with no help from others, and get endgame in a short timeframe.


I want the option to level from 1-50 by myself. Big deal. It could take me a year doing it this way given how I can only play 5-10 hours a week these days. The requirement for help would come at end-game, where groups would be necessary to gear up for raid bosses.

Quote:
You don't have time to play 30+ hours a week. That's cool and all, but this is an MMO. One of the words is "MASSIVE".


Yes, I understand what MMORPG means. No where does it say it's a full time job, nor does "massive" mean massive time sink. It's typically referred to as massive due to the size of the world and it's player base.

Quote:
If you can't play a lot, expect to suck... sorry, but it's true.


If that means not having an elitist attitude and a pension to getting **** hurt over logical arguments, then fine, I'll suck all day.

Quote:
I agree, a recipe book would be nice, but if it's not there... oh well, learn your craft and learn what you can make.

I'm sure you have a job in real life... every time you do something do you need to look at an instruction manual? No, you learn and memorize.


I don't really consider MMORPGS a job, but I'll go along with your analogy for entertainment purposes.

If my job included making hundreds, perhaps thousands, of different items all with different parts compositions you'd better believe I'd have a reference chart of some sort.

Quote:
If you played WoW, I'm sure you had to read guides on how to do boss fights and raids. So don't say you didn't have to leave the game and read for WoW or any other game as well.


Didn't play WoW, but I want to be clear. I've been in top-progression guilds before, where we were typically server first, and sometimes world first on boss kills. We didn't read a manual because there wasn't one. We just died, a lot, trying to figure it out.

For non-raid type encounters I would just typically get killed a couple times trying to figure out the finer details of the encounter and adept to them.

Quote:
If you don't want to do research, then fine... go into fights with no clue and get rofflestomped.


So you're saying that we shouldn't want our hands held, but we should go look up how to kill stuff ezmode so we don't get rofflestomped.

You should try sticking to one edict and roll with it, you're bouncing all over the place.

Quote:
Your complaints are just pure laziness.


Such a fine representation of your precious community.
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#93 Sep 13 2010 at 7:57 AM Rating: Good
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@Shonancerub
measure's post count + my post count < your post count.
And about:

Quote:
No not really... just tired of all the "I expect this" and "I expect that". You get what you get, if you don't like it, don't play.


We should all gullibly accept our fate, and either like what we get or leave?
Last time I checked it was cool to point out things that are wrong.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 10:01am by Rinsui
#94 Sep 13 2010 at 7:59 AM Rating: Default
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Aww did I hurt your e-feelings? =(
#95 Sep 13 2010 at 8:00 AM Rating: Default
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Rinsui wrote:
measure's post count + my post count < your post count.


Oh, it was a shot at bsphil...
he's not here at the moment... but I'm sure he's sleeping thinking of a million ways to express his dislike for the game currently.
#96 Sep 13 2010 at 8:03 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:

Our complaints are not about holding our hands.
Every single idiot on this MMORPG knows how to google for guild recipes and the like.
The point is: why the **** does he have to do that?


Maybe im just really old school, but back in the day, when playing just an RPG, you would keep a notebook of things you needed to remember to do or look into or attempt (i.e. chocobo breeding FFVII). I'm sorry that WoW made everything idiot proof, but don't take it out on FFXIV. (seriously they had to make quest & gathering items sparkle so people would know where to collect them)



And you don't have to memorize 400 recipes.... its people that think its work to look things up, that become the worst players in an mmo... and are asking to have the players that are willing to look things up to hold their hand.
#97 Sep 13 2010 at 8:03 AM Rating: Good
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Aww did I hurt your e-feelings? =(

Some surface analogies don't work.
You can stroke your e-peen, but you can't hurt someone's e-feelings.
That doesn't make sense.
#98 Sep 13 2010 at 8:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Maybe im just really old school, but back in the day, when playing just an RPG, you would keep a notebook of things you needed to remember to do or look into or attempt (i.e. chocobo breeding FFVII). I'm sorry that WoW made everything idiot proof, but don't take it out on FFXIV. (seriously they had to make quest & gathering items sparkle so people would know where to collect them)


Yes! And I admit that was really funny... back then. Because "finding out" something had a real satisfaction and value attached to it. Point is just that such notes nowadays can be found all over the internet, and any (*any*) serious crafter will use them anyway.

And there is no "profit" "fun" or "reason" in having to look them up every time you simply try to craft stuff you are supposed to have "learned" in-game 30 levels ago. Well, of course, if you think that's the fun part... memorizing the recipes... I have nothing to counter that argument.
#99ShonaSeraph, Posted: Sep 13 2010 at 8:12 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I guess it's about as fun as trying to memorize clever retorts to use on internet gaming forums to get a good karma rating...
#100 Sep 13 2010 at 8:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I guess it's about as fun as trying to memorize clever retorts to use on internet gaming forums to get a good karma rating...


Here, have some more.
1.) Yes, that's sport. If you don't like it -> leave.
2.) Due to constant brawls with the SE defense crusaders league, my karma must be 20.000 miles below the sea.
3.) I don't care the slightest bit.
4.) Honestly, I don't even know how to check that out.
#101 Sep 13 2010 at 8:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Pontipy wrote:

Maybe im just really old school, but back in the day, when playing just an RPG, you would keep a notebook of things you needed to remember to do or look into or attempt (i.e. chocobo breeding FFVII). I'm sorry that WoW made everything idiot proof, but don't take it out on FFXIV. (seriously they had to make quest & gathering items sparkle so people would know where to collect them)

And you don't have to memorize 400 recipes.... its people that think its work to look things up, that become the worst players in an mmo... and are asking to have the players that are willing to look things up to hold their hand.


Exactly. I miss the good old RPG games where you kept a notebook next to your computer. Now a days video games are as mindless as watching TV. You used to have to think, strategize, and organize yourself to beat RPGs. I actually enjoyed "having to memorize" 400 recipes, or enemy affinities, elemental effects, etc. etc. That was what defined the genre.
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