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FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue SystemFollow

#52 Sep 12 2010 at 11:16 PM Rating: Good
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I agree, that if you are going to put work out on the internet, that you should at least be able to spell, pronounce, enunciate anything within that work. However, when someone gives us free work, like the OP, can't we just let some things slide?
Would you be mad at your neighbor if he didn't use a weed eater while mowing your lawn for free?

Edit: Would you point out the things he missed while mowing your lawn for free. Your probably wouldn't. Why do things online, that you wouldn't do in real life?

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 1:18am by Teneleven
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#53 Sep 12 2010 at 11:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Teneleven wrote:
I agree, that if you are going to put work out on the internet, that you should at least be able to spell, pronounce, enunciate anything within that work. However, when someone gives us free work, like the OP, can't we just let some things slide?
Would you be mad at your neighbor if he didn't use a weed eater while mowing your lawn for free?


I think it was just really jarring because the rest of it was so good and professional-sounding.
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#54Kierk, Posted: Sep 12 2010 at 11:20 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) No, but this is the internet. I can say things, maybe things that are even true, where otherwise I'd be punched in the face.
#55 Sep 12 2010 at 11:20 PM Rating: Default
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Teneleven wrote:
I agree, that if you are going to put work out on the internet, that you should at least be able to spell, pronounce, enunciate anything within that work. However, when someone gives us free work, like the OP, can't we just let some things slide?
Would you be mad at your neighbor if he didn't use a weed eater while mowing your lawn for free?

Edit: Would you point out the things he missed while mowing your lawn for free. Your probably wouldn't. Why do things online, that you wouldn't do in real life?
If he had ambitions to start up a lawn mowing business and didn't get the edges done properly, yeah.
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#56 Sep 12 2010 at 11:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Teneleven wrote:
I agree, that if you are going to put work out on the internet, that you should at least be able to spell, pronounce, enunciate anything within that work. However, when someone gives us free work, like the OP, can't we just let some things slide?
Would you be mad at your neighbor if he didn't use a weed eater while mowing your lawn for free?


I think it was just really jarring because the rest of it was so good and professional-sounding.


That's my point exactly lol. It was really good... but done by someone who did it for fun. I'm sure he didn't get paid for it. It's like telling your kid that his Tom and Jerry coloring book was really good, but it kind of sucks because he drew out of the lines.
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#57 Sep 12 2010 at 11:24 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
Teneleven wrote:
I agree, that if you are going to put work out on the internet, that you should at least be able to spell, pronounce, enunciate anything within that work. However, when someone gives us free work, like the OP, can't we just let some things slide?
Would you be mad at your neighbor if he didn't use a weed eater while mowing your lawn for free?

Edit: Would you point out the things he missed while mowing your lawn for free. Your probably wouldn't. Why do things online, that you wouldn't do in real life?
If he had ambitions to start up a lawn mowing business and didn't get the edges done properly, yeah.


I fail to see where the OP stated his ambitions.
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#58 Sep 12 2010 at 11:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Teneleven wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Teneleven wrote:
I agree, that if you are going to put work out on the internet, that you should at least be able to spell, pronounce, enunciate anything within that work. However, when someone gives us free work, like the OP, can't we just let some things slide?
Would you be mad at your neighbor if he didn't use a weed eater while mowing your lawn for free?


I think it was just really jarring because the rest of it was so good and professional-sounding.


That's my point exactly lol. It was really good... but done by someone who did it for fun. I'm sure he didn't get paid for it. It's like telling your kid that his Tom and Jerry coloring book was really good, but it kind of sucks because he drew out of the lines.


I think he's a bit beyond the coloring-book phase of voice overs. Someone with his voice and cadence could absolutely pursue such a career (voice overs, not coloring books) but needs to be mindful that he isn't making mistakes like that, because they make his audience stop listening for a moment while they process what he said. Doesn't really matter if he got paid for this single instance, if those errors hadn't been present he could easily submit this video as part of his portfolio to land a job he WOULD be paid for.
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#59 Sep 12 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Teneleven wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Teneleven wrote:
I agree, that if you are going to put work out on the internet, that you should at least be able to spell, pronounce, enunciate anything within that work. However, when someone gives us free work, like the OP, can't we just let some things slide?
Would you be mad at your neighbor if he didn't use a weed eater while mowing your lawn for free?


I think it was just really jarring because the rest of it was so good and professional-sounding.


That's my point exactly lol. It was really good... but done by someone who did it for fun. I'm sure he didn't get paid for it. It's like telling your kid that his Tom and Jerry coloring book was really good, but it kind of sucks because he drew out of the lines.


I think he's a bit beyond the coloring-book phase of voice overs. Someone with his voice and cadence could absolutely pursue such a career (voice overs, not coloring books) but needs to be mindful that he isn't making mistakes like that, because they make his audience stop listening for a moment while they process what he said. Doesn't really matter if he got paid for this single instance, if those errors hadn't been present he could easily submit this video as part of his portfolio to land a job he WOULD be paid for.


Yeah, i see what you are saying. People probably wouldn't go through all that work if they weren't interested in the field. I'd just hate to see anyone discouraged from doing something they like, over a technicality.
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#60 Sep 12 2010 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I still don't see how this system is helping the casuals. Instead of a hardcore player hitting the level cap faster than the casual, the hardcore player will simply be playing the optimal class build while the casual is stuck being a gimp because he/she has no time to level up a second/third/fourth/etc class.
#61 Sep 12 2010 at 11:42 PM Rating: Decent
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TheLufia wrote:
I still don't see how this system is helping the casuals. Instead of a hardcore player hitting the level cap faster than the casual, the hardcore player will simply be playing the optimal class build while the casual is stuck being a gimp because he/she has no time to level up a second/third/fourth/etc class.


Actually, i can answer this.

No one class will be gimped. There are certain abilities that are natural to one class. Those abilities will always be strongest on that class.

I could play the game as a marauder the entire game, and still be worth having in a party. I won't be as good as other marauders that have healing spells, and other abilities, but i won't be so gimp that you wouldn't want me in a party.
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#62 Sep 12 2010 at 11:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Actually, i can answer this.

No one class will be gimped. There are certain abilities that are natural to one class. Those abilities will always be strongest on that class.

I could play the game as a marauder the entire game, and still be worth having in a party. I won't be as good as other marauders that have healing spells, and other abilities, but i won't be so gimp that you wouldn't want me in a party.


Seems more like speculation than anything. I'm not saying you're incorrect, but the impact your secondary abilities make, as well as how much min/maxing is needed to complete PvE content, has yet to be determined as far as I'm concerned. If they're so ineffective to the point where they make little overall impact, the whole customization system seems quite lame.

This is why I'm not a huge fan of ability freedom in MMOs. It's hard to balance, for one. If you want to allow people to play anything they want, then you must balance content based on the lowest common denominator. If you don't do that, then you end up with something like FFXI where certain job combinations are considered gimp and useless.

What you are arguing is that the lowest common denominator (aka someone with little to no secondary abilities) will still be able to complete content. This runs the risk of making content for min/maxers too easy, depending on how much of an impact those abilities make. If they make little impact, that's certainly not sounding too great for one of their more unique selling points.
#63 Sep 13 2010 at 12:12 AM Rating: Good
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TheLufia wrote:
Quote:
Actually, i can answer this.

No one class will be gimped. There are certain abilities that are natural to one class. Those abilities will always be strongest on that class.

I could play the game as a marauder the entire game, and still be worth having in a party. I won't be as good as other marauders that have healing spells, and other abilities, but i won't be so gimp that you wouldn't want me in a party.


Seems more like speculation than anything. I'm not saying you're incorrect, but the impact your secondary abilities make, as well as how much min/maxing is needed to complete PvE content, has yet to be determined as far as I'm concerned. If they're so ineffective to the point where they make little overall impact, the whole customization system seems quite lame.

This is why I'm not a huge fan of ability freedom in MMOs. It's hard to balance, for one. If you want to allow people to play anything they want, then you must balance content based on the lowest common denominator. If you don't do that, then you end up with something like FFXI where certain job combinations are considered gimp and useless.

What you are arguing is that the lowest common denominator (aka someone with little to no secondary abilities) will still be able to complete content. This runs the risk of making content for min/maxers too easy, depending on how much of an impact those abilities make. If they make little impact, that's certainly not sounding too great for one of their more unique selling points.



I can tell you right now that on my PUG I have the Trunksplitter ability from MAR.

At level 9 PUG I can already do 200 more damage with that ability than without. Soloing is much easier.

So I have, Concussion Blow and Seismic Shock AND Trunksplitter.

Preferably, in groups maybe (I really don't know yet) I'd want only abilities that ONLY hit single mobs, so I'd get rid of Seismic Shock and want to level another class that had another single mob ability.

Or maybe I'd want all AoE skills, the same would apply.

The point being: I'm going to want abilities that will give me the most damage for the most TP.

So the hardcore are going to get the groups (or at least be more discriminating) because they'll have (want) the most abilities and will be the most preferred. At least in terms of DD.

But this is just how I see it, very early on in beta.

#64 Sep 13 2010 at 12:37 AM Rating: Decent
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YAY, Awesome!
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#65 Sep 13 2010 at 1:02 AM Rating: Good
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TheLufia wrote:
Quote:
Actually, i can answer this.

No one class will be gimped. There are certain abilities that are natural to one class. Those abilities will always be strongest on that class.

I could play the game as a marauder the entire game, and still be worth having in a party. I won't be as good as other marauders that have healing spells, and other abilities, but i won't be so gimp that you wouldn't want me in a party.


Seems more like speculation than anything. I'm not saying you're incorrect, but the impact your secondary abilities make, as well as how much min/maxing is needed to complete PvE content, has yet to be determined as far as I'm concerned. If they're so ineffective to the point where they make little overall impact, the whole customization system seems quite lame.

This is why I'm not a huge fan of ability freedom in MMOs. It's hard to balance, for one. If you want to allow people to play anything they want, then you must balance content based on the lowest common denominator. If you don't do that, then you end up with something like FFXI where certain job combinations are considered gimp and useless.

What you are arguing is that the lowest common denominator (aka someone with little to no secondary abilities) will still be able to complete content. This runs the risk of making content for min/maxers too easy, depending on how much of an impact those abilities make. If they make little impact, that's certainly not sounding too great for one of their more unique selling points.


Can i ask you a question? Have you played the beta yet? I think you misunderstand what i am saying. Bloodbath is a bad *** ability, but it's better on marauder. There are abilities that can't even be used on another class. You can level 1 class and still be relevant in this game.
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#66Ggrab, Posted: Sep 13 2010 at 1:10 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You have a very **** voice...
#67 Sep 13 2010 at 2:30 AM Rating: Good
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Rate up and thanks to the OP. I attempted twice in text to explain this and was practically thrown off the bridge, even when I *did* get my explanation across intelligently.

Well done!
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#68 Sep 13 2010 at 2:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Excellent video! Absolutely beautiful!
One note, I'd like to point out that SE had stated that you can decrease the amount of fatigue you've acquired by doing other in-game tasks rather than just taking a rest from playing. I'll try and find a link to that interview.

Quote:
Hitting the fatigue system's first 10% level now takes well longer than 8 solid hours of grinding. Even for the truly hardcore that information now seems unreliable. Additionally physical level and class level are not hitting the fatigue system at the same points as your video indicates. Most people hit fatigue at class lvl 16, but not until physical level 21 or so.


The fatigue system is not based on how much time you spend getting xp, it's based on amount of xp you get. So if you grind 8 hours and only get 3k xp you won't see any difference but if you grind 8 hours and get 8k xp then you'll start seeing a difference.
#69 Sep 13 2010 at 2:48 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The EXP curve doesn't look any less steep than FFXI though.

Fair. Seems awkward to refer to a restriction as more freedom, though. Being free to do anything other than what I want to do... just doesn't seem like freedom.


Relative to itself, yes it is a restriction if you only want to level one thing as much as you can in the shortest time possible. But you have to think about it relative to the alternative. If SE didn't use this system, they would have implemented another system- most likely either increasing the exp required to level or having mobs/actions give less exp.

Rested EXP is another alternative, as it gives casuals a boost to catch up to hardcore players, but they already have implemented that system, in the form of Guardian Favor.

Also to note, I believe character exp takes longer to get to surplus than class exp does. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they don't go up at the same rate. (But I might just be imagining things.)

In response to the actual movie: It was very good. It felt like I was watching How It's Made or something. ._>
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#70 Sep 13 2010 at 3:03 AM Rating: Decent
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The video is very well put together but...

Quote:
Fair. Seems awkward to refer to a restriction as more freedom, though. Being free to do anything other than what I want to do... just doesn't seem like freedom.

As for leveling other classes, if it's worth doing, people would do it without a roadblock forcing them to. It happened in FFXI just fine, people who had the time leveled their needed subjobs to enhance their main job's performance.


...this a thousand times. Square seriously has this all backwards. Rested EXP is how they should have done this because it works. Square decided they wanted to be special though.

I also want to quote what I said in another thread.

[quote]What I want to know more than anything is how long one would need to level other classes before the surplus resets. It would be awesome if someone could grind on one class till they hit the wall then grind on another class till they hit the wall on that and go back to see if it's gone on the first.

I've expressed how much I dislike this system but I'm really trying to see the positives in it, though if I have to level more than one other class before I can go back to my original it will be very annoying.

I can see myself grinding out EXP on miner then switching to smithing or something till I hit the wall on it and being able to switch back to miner after wards but if I have to level freakin botanist, fisher and pugilist before I can touch miner again I'll be ***************



Edited, Sep 13th 2010 7:34am by CupDeNoodles
#71 Sep 13 2010 at 3:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Fair. Seems awkward to refer to a restriction as more freedom, though. Being free to do anything other than what I want to do... just doesn't seem like freedom.


SE stated there would be immense freedom in the ways and direction your character can grow, they never said anything about freedom in the rate at which your character can grow =P
#72 Sep 13 2010 at 5:57 AM Rating: Decent
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First of all I have to say this video was very well made. High quality stuff.

But...

There are several things wrong about the way the system is explained. Based on the demonstration you show of SE's revolutionary(read backwards) system, it looks as if the game has linear leveling and no curve at all. If in fact the exp curves then the fatigue thresholds would also have to curve. You show the walls that players running into in evenly spread increments, but because the exp from level to level increases, the distance between these walls becomes shorter and shorter.

Regarding casuals, this system is definitely not fair. There isn't much difference between allowing people to cap earlier or allowing people to level classes that you can use other abilities from. I know first hand that the FF community feels they are above the rest. Because of this the hardcore players with multiple classes ranked up will get the invite over casuals still. For the sake of this scenario consider FFXI. Would you invite the level 30 monk with no subjob, or the level 30 monk/warrior? Now apply that to FFXIV. Casuals... more like casualties.

The last point I would like to make is about how this system will affect leveling style. The people who spend the minimum 15 hours playing to 'the wall' will realize that after they hit the physical cap, everyone else is standing there at the same wall. Anything you try to accomplish in the field will be overrun by all the other physical level 15 players trying to skill up their other classes that week. To add to the decay of exp, you will find it harder to level your other classes skills when you change to new classes due to your advanced physical level. Trying to balance all of this while playing along with friends will be painfully tedious. If you or a friend miss a week or two you will never be able to catch up unless one or the other stops completely for the other one.

This thinking is completely upside-down. You don't create barriers to keep players from progressing through the end of weak content. You create content to keep the players occupied enough that they will find other things to do on their own rather than being forced. You're damned if you do or damned if you don't. If you do then you hit a wall, if you don't then your friends leave you behind and you don't catch up.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 8:00am by FilthMcNasty
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#73 Sep 13 2010 at 7:33 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Can i ask you a question? Have you played the beta yet? I think you misunderstand what i am saying. Bloodbath is a bad *** ability, but it's better on marauder. There are abilities that can't even be used on another class. You can level 1 class and still be relevant in this game.


Yes, I'm aware how the game works. Abilities are better if you use them on the original class.

The point I was making is that if the whole game can be completed and is balanced around people only using the base classes with no extra abilities, then the game becomes easier when you factor in all those extra skills people will be getting. That is, of course, unless the extra abilities prove to be fairly useless or only add a small increase to your effectiveness. This then begs the question of why even have an open ability system in the first place?

So if my basic gladiator can be just as or near as effective as another person who has their gladiator tricked out with abilities across several classes, why even bother leveling multiple classes?
#74 Sep 13 2010 at 9:36 AM Rating: Decent
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hungerforce wrote:
Quote:
Fair. Seems awkward to refer to a restriction as more freedom, though. Being free to do anything other than what I want to do... just doesn't seem like freedom.


SE stated there would be immense freedom in the ways and direction your character can grow, they never said anything about freedom in the rate at which your character can grow =P
"You're free to do what I say you can do" =/= freedom.

By the way, you don't gain HP or MP as your physical level increases. Just thought I'd point that out.
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#75 Sep 13 2010 at 9:36 AM Rating: Default
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TheLufia wrote:
So if my basic gladiator can be just as or near as effective as another person who has their gladiator tricked out with abilities across several classes, why even bother leveling multiple classes?


Seriously? This reasoning is like thinking you'll get invites without a subjob. If you'd read the post right before this you could have saved putting your foot in your mouth, again. Adding abilities from other classes is the only thing that makes this game dynamic at all. When you remove that you may as well not even be playing.
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#76 Sep 13 2010 at 9:39 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
TheLufia wrote:
So if my basic gladiator can be just as or near as effective as another person who has their gladiator tricked out with abilities across several classes, why even bother leveling multiple classes?


Seriously? This reasoning is like thinking you'll get invites without a subjob. If you'd read the post right before this you could have saved putting your foot in your mouth, again. Adding abilities from other classes is the only thing that makes this game dynamic at all. When you remove that you may as well not even be playing.


He was being facetious/rhetorical.
#77 Sep 13 2010 at 10:42 AM Rating: Default
TheLufia wrote:
Quote:
Can i ask you a question? Have you played the beta yet? I think you misunderstand what i am saying. Bloodbath is a bad *** ability, but it's better on marauder. There are abilities that can't even be used on another class. You can level 1 class and still be relevant in this game.


Yes, I'm aware how the game works. Abilities are better if you use them on the original class.

The point I was making is that if the whole game can be completed and is balanced around people only using the base classes with no extra abilities, then the game becomes easier when you factor in all those extra skills people will be getting. That is, of course, unless the extra abilities prove to be fairly useless or only add a small increase to your effectiveness. This then begs the question of why even have an open ability system in the first place?

So if my basic gladiator can be just as or near as effective as another person who has their gladiator tricked out with abilities across several classes, why even bother leveling multiple classes?


Because a Glad with abilities from other jobs will be a totally different "class" if you will - than a pure glad. If you are a glad with mega healing abilities - you are more of a paladin than a gladiator - if you are a glad with debuffs and absorb spells - you are more of a dark knight than a gladiator.

Will it make you "better?" - Maybe. There will probably be some builds that work better than others - for sure. But the role you fill in a party will be different the way a warrior is different than a paladin than a dark knight.

Just like a paladin isn't by default better than a warrior - I think it will depend a lot on people's different abilities to actually play and choose what they spend their AP on wisely. I know on Con for example that by level 13 there are already too many native abilities for me to equip - so even if I only leveled con I would have a lot of abilities to choose from to make me either good or sucky - but then it really depends.

For specialization purposes - Pure Healer, Pure Tank etc, Pure Buffer, Pure Debuffer - it WILL be necessary to level more than one job - but someone who just levels one job will be pretty decent and well rounded - but they won't be chosen for those niche spots in parties - that said - if people are looking for another body to round out a party - they probably won't mind someone with decent gears and mostly native class skills.

That said, in the end we won't know until we get to that point.

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#78 Sep 13 2010 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
hungerforce wrote:
Quote:
Fair. Seems awkward to refer to a restriction as more freedom, though. Being free to do anything other than what I want to do... just doesn't seem like freedom.


SE stated there would be immense freedom in the ways and direction your character can grow, they never said anything about freedom in the rate at which your character can grow =P
"You're free to do what I say you can do" =/= freedom.

By the way, you don't gain HP or MP as your physical level increases. Just thought I'd point that out.


Try putting some points into Vitality and Mind.
#79 Sep 13 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh yay - that explains the idea behind the system so much better :D

(even if the time / amounts are changed, now at least I know what they are talking about lol)

Quote:
however, being told no about something you feel your entitled to is not something that has ever worked well with me or many other people in this world.


This is the problem. Why do you feel you are entitled to reach level cap before everyone else? Do you pay more for the game? You will have a better rounded character than people who can't put in as much time as you.

So many people feel that just because they are able to do something they should be allowed to do it. It's a very spoiled way of looking at things.
#80 Sep 13 2010 at 11:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Best FF14 video I've seen yet.I know without a doubt SE is putting some thought into this game. A least they're going all out (good or bad) they're trying. The hardcore guy is the only thing funny in this video.lol

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 1:13pm by Warmech
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#81 Sep 13 2010 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
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RattyBatty wrote:
I continue to disagree. I guarantee you can find a large culture somewhere in the world (UK, Australia etc..) where that pronunciation is absolutely correct. Considering how many narrators tend to have British accents and 'wacky' ways of saying certian words, I don't think he has to worry too much about this. Afterall they still get jobs. And this is the world wide internet, not USAnet. Accept that things won't always be tailored to your dialect.

Ratedown shield on : The USA english way to pronounce a word is more often than not the one that's 'wrong'.


As an American in the UK, sitting next to his English GF, I can safely say: You're wrong.

She too was like "He needs to learn how to say piety"
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#82 Sep 13 2010 at 11:26 AM Rating: Default
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...and when we're not complaining about FFXIV we complain about someone's pronunciation.
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#83 Sep 13 2010 at 11:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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So now I'll be able to keep up with everyone on Beastmaster... Oh wait. :(
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#84 Sep 13 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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So now I'll be able to keep up with everyone on Beastmaster... Oh wait. :(


It stings... doesn't it.
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#85 Sep 13 2010 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Because a Glad with abilities from other jobs will be a totally different "class" if you will - than a pure glad.


If we use FFXI as a precedent, we can see that subjobs never really changed your role, they merely enhanced it. My DRG could use WAR as a subjob for all out damage, or I could sub SAM for a nice balance between survivability and damage. Either way, I still played very similarly.

What you say could be true, though. It really depends on how the game develops, which you point out in your last sentence. I will say that, so far, I haven't seen a ton of reason to limit yourself to your base abilities.
#86 Sep 13 2010 at 12:58 PM Rating: Default
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RufuSwho wrote:
bsphil wrote:
hungerforce wrote:
Quote:
Fair. Seems awkward to refer to a restriction as more freedom, though. Being free to do anything other than what I want to do... just doesn't seem like freedom.


SE stated there would be immense freedom in the ways and direction your character can grow, they never said anything about freedom in the rate at which your character can grow =P
"You're free to do what I say you can do" =/= freedom.

By the way, you don't gain HP or MP as your physical level increases. Just thought I'd point that out.


Try putting some points into Vitality and Mind.
Exactly, VIT and MND give you HP and MP, not physical levels.

"But hey, you can assign points once you level up, and you could take those points and put them into VIT and/or MND! Transitive property of game mechanics!"

But that's not getting HP/MP from leveling. That's getting it from VIT/MND. If he really wants to put out a complete video of that quality, I'd expect better detail than that.
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#87 Sep 13 2010 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
If he really wants to put out a complete video of that quality, I'd expect better detail than that.


The production is right on the money, but what this video lacks is an objective look at how the system really works. It does a good job at explaining what surplus is although, I would guess SE would be upset by the fact that he does at least refer to it for what it is, a fatigue system.

I won't go as far as to call it fanboyish, but it does try to paint surplus in a positive light and completely ignores the repercussions of how it will affect players now and in the future.

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#88 Sep 13 2010 at 3:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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TheLufia wrote:
Quote:
Because a Glad with abilities from other jobs will be a totally different "class" if you will - than a pure glad.


If we use FFXI as a precedent, we can see that subjobs never really changed your role, they merely enhanced it. My DRG could use WAR as a subjob for all out damage, or I could sub SAM for a nice balance between survivability and damage. Either way, I still played very similarly.

What you say could be true, though. It really depends on how the game develops, which you point out in your last sentence. I will say that, so far, I haven't seen a ton of reason to limit yourself to your base abilities.



What you are missing is cross-class abilities are not the same thing as a subjob at all - mainly because you aren't limited to abilities from just one other class - nor must you only equip abilities at half your "main" level. It is different.

SE has said that they wanted people to make their own classes - they specifically referenced white mage. Myself - I think that without cross-classing you WILL be weaker - but not cripplingly so. I know that it is waaaay easier to play pug with some conjurer/thaumaturge skills than without.
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#89 Sep 13 2010 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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Wanted to chime in on a very well-done video. It really explains the system well.

-Ten
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#90 Sep 13 2010 at 4:31 PM Rating: Good
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I agree this is a brilliant explanation of how it works.

It is exactly how I understood it. I was always planning on levelling multiple jobs, even in the beta I have practiced levelling a few DoW jobs to give me more choices on abilities.

After levelling Pugilsit and Marauder a few levels it gave my Gladiator better abilities for combat. Having things like Trunksplitter and Second Wind on my Gladiator has made the job much better (Red Lotus, using MP, has it's limits).

I think SE should snap this up and put it on their own YouTube channel, it will put a lot of the confusion to rest.
#91 Sep 13 2010 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
What you are missing is cross-class abilities are not the same thing as a subjob at all - mainly because you aren't limited to abilities from just one other class - nor must you only equip abilities at half your "main" level. It is different.


My point wasn't to directly compare them but to point out how the previous job system worked. I think you're overestimating the skill customization system a little too much. I can't stick full Conjurer skills on my Gladiator and call him a Conjurer. Your main class still heavily influences how you play the game.

Also, if we find out more about how the gear system works, we may be limited even more based on our main class.

What I'm worried about is this game turning into Champions Online. Want to min/max? Everyone choose Regeneration and some sort of self heal! Yay, customization! I really hope SE can avoid having "staple" skills that just about everyone takes. I wouldn't be surprised if we see in the future certain skills getting nerfed if you use them from a secondary class source.

If SE wants to avoid what CO did, they're going to either have a HUGE balancing issue on their hand, which I have very little faith they can pull off given their lack of balancing with FFXI subjobs, or they're going to need to limit you heavily based on your main class.
#92 Sep 13 2010 at 5:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I won't go as far as to call it fanboyish, but it does try to paint surplus in a positive light and completely ignores the repercussions of how it will affect players now and in the future.


Yeah, it was really informative and explained the system well, but then we get to the end and leave on the note of it being a revolutionary system that people just don't understand, and by restricting your ability to do as you please, SE has given you more freedom. I'd hope that the future videos stick to explaining game concepts in an understandable and slick way, and leave the editorializing on the floor.
#93 Sep 13 2010 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
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WOW OP, that's a professional video right there, so clearly explained. I don't think SE could have done better - wait, I know they couldn't have explained that better.

Honestly, this video reshaped the way I think about it, to be a little more open minded about their vision. Not that I am super supportive, but it puts it in perspective.

It really amazes me the talent this player base has. From things like this, to the wonderful guy who already built a windower interface, it's just amazing.

Great work!

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 7:26pm by KnocturnalOne
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#94 Sep 13 2010 at 5:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Don't have anything to say about spelling or dialects...

But, I was curious if the OP or anyone knows how long the cooldown time is between exp rate refilling?
In the video it says not engaging in combats for a certain amount of time will start reseting the timer. On that same note, does this mean the 8hrs only starts decreasing when we enter combat? Or is it overall playtime well logged in, including afk?

I'm assuming it's not pure combat time, since ppl spending 15hrs a week in fights would seem ridiculous.
#95 Sep 13 2010 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
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This should be sticky'd
#96 Sep 13 2010 at 6:12 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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LionLoki wrote:
Don't have anything to say about spelling or dialects...

But, I was curious if the OP or anyone knows how long the cooldown time is between exp rate refilling?
In the video it says not engaging in combats for a certain amount of time will start reseting the timer. On that same note, does this mean the 8hrs only starts decreasing when we enter combat? Or is it overall playtime well logged in, including afk?

I'm assuming it's not pure combat time, since ppl spending 15hrs a week in fights would seem ridiculous.
Well one person commented and said that after 3 days of not leveling that class, the fatigue (the amount of exp removed) had not changed at all. I'd check it myself but I have a hard time forcing myself to play for more than an hour a day.

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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#97 Sep 13 2010 at 6:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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I wonder if SE hired the OP to make this video for damage control. It's pretty mysterious watching a guy we've never seen before jump in, drop a brilliant video amongst all the naysayers on this forum and then slip away quietly. He's a Ninja!

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 9:10pm by TauuOfSiren
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#98 Sep 13 2010 at 6:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Great great great video. No other word for it.
#99 Sep 13 2010 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
Oh my gosh please have my babiess!!!!!!!!!!

Please!!!!!

Great video, excellent work. I'm PUMPED!
#100 Sep 13 2010 at 7:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Very flash video, thumbs up.
Paticularly liked the Gladiator, Marauder, Pugilist combine, and the quote deluge near the end :)
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#101 Sep 13 2010 at 7:18 PM Rating: Default
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First of all great vid. Secondly, it looks like that xp bonus item that no special edition buyers get is worthless.
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