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The road to **** is paved with good intentionsFollow

#52 Sep 14 2010 at 8:06 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Lack of a hardware mouse should make that evident to you
The hardware mouse is already there (it's not that hard to implement), it just needs an option to enable it, which is why people have been able to hack the game executable to enable the hardware mouse. They just haven't done it for no apparent reason at all.


You forget that Square Enix is big on not fixing things for no apparent reason.

In FFXI:

Backwards beetle foot.

Broken Cockatrice toe.

Fenrir's eye.


In each case these things could be fixed in 10 minutes by tweaking the model and be shipped out in the next update. But SE has not fixed them. They have just left them that way for years for no apparent reason at all.




Edited, Sep 14th 2010 11:07pm by Lobivopis
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Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#53 Sep 14 2010 at 8:14 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Lobivopis wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Lack of a hardware mouse should make that evident to you
The hardware mouse is already there (it's not that hard to implement), it just needs an option to enable it, which is why people have been able to hack the game executable to enable the hardware mouse. They just haven't done it for no apparent reason at all.
You forget that Square Enix is big on not fixing things for no apparent reason.

In FFXI:

Backwards beetle foot.

Broken Cockatrice toe.

Fenrir's eye.


In each case these things could be fixed in 10 minutes by tweaking the model and be shipped out in the next update. But SE has not fixed them. They have just left them that way for years for no apparent reason at all.
Unfortunately I haven't forgotten that stuff (though fenrir's eye is a new one to me), and that was my biggest apprehension about the game - that SE and the dev. team would continue to seal themselves off from the community, only to speak during very sporadic, special interviews.
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#54 Sep 14 2010 at 8:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Given the stalled PS3 release I will speculate: Pure speculation so don't burn me too bad.

If they are not proactive in dealing with things/updating fixes, and having good customer support, then the PS3 release will have very low numbers. Hopefully this is a driving factor and will ultimately make their decisions to be proactive. There are a lot of players (not me) waiting for the PS3 release and they are reading boards like this one. They will weigh heavily on whether to purchase the game or not. I have seen hardly anyone talking in the open beta. I could hear a spider vomit, it has been that quiet. Hopefully that will change and in a good direction.

Having said all of this, I have seen progress in the patches and genuine observation on their part. But in this era, if their customer service falls through on this game, on another subscription product. I just don't see it surviving or selling longterm to anyone but hardcore people. Good/bad either way, this again is just speculation.

Overall I am excited about this game. It will release my boredom that has been caged up ever since I left FFXI so many years ago.


Edited, Sep 14th 2010 10:30pm by Parsalyn
#55 Sep 15 2010 at 12:55 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

By most standards, FFXI was a success. Sure, it wasn't WoW and it had problems, but it had 4 expansions, several mini expansions, and it is still going after 8 years with several content updates in the works. Why do you imply that it was a failure because it was a muliplatform game?


I don't think FFXI was a failure. What I think is that those of us who played on PC got the short end of the stick. For whatever reason SE couldn't give us a simple alt/Tab. We had to use Windower to get alt/tab. We had to hack the register to get decent graphics. And the idiot people at SE sometimes accused us of "cheating".

I don't know of any other MMO's, so I am asking if there if console and PC players can get along.




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#56 Sep 15 2010 at 8:38 AM Rating: Good
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zoltanrs wrote:
If some of you buy this game you should be slapped so hard your mommas nose bleeds. Stop crying on every QQ thread and stop playin it already. Christ! This game is turning out good. it is VERY clear that most of you have never tested a game where you were aware what was happening. FFXIV does a simple stress test and some generic balancing and this place blows up with an amount of QQ that seems like it spewed right from the wow paladin forums. The complaints? The same thing as the last thread.... the same thing they just addressed today or things that have no bearing on anything as the final results haven't even been added to the game. That or people are just plain unobservant and don't see that most mmos are built with repeated textures. Also, Macro game needs macros. amazing huh. You show me a good game that wasn't like this at the start and I'll show you a player who wasn't there at the start. LOTRO being the exception to that. That game was fail in it's own unique way tho. LOL ironforge.

Also lol @ the people saying SE isn't listening to player feedback.


whew... if it weren't for all this "QQ" from people who care about the game, do you think they would have had an announcement regarding the changes they are planning yesterday? Take it how you want it, but this is how you effect change. Since the beta forums were closed, we had no choice but to look elsewhere to provide feedback to SE. As I understand it, this is one of their identified "flagship" sites, so it seems appropriate to comment here "hey your game needs ALOT of work in the following areas"..

A single dissenter fades softly into the background.. an angry mob can't help but be noticed.

chow.

Edited, Sep 15th 2010 10:39am by elm33
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#57 Sep 15 2010 at 8:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
The road to **** is paved with good intention

Gee, and here I thought it was paved with ICP cds.
*shivers*
#58 Sep 15 2010 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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HallieXIV wrote:


I do, however, unreservedly apologise for "going there"! On re-reading my post, I did have a bit of a pop on a couple of occasions. I had been reading so much negativity about the game, which frustrated me given that this is a much more complete launch than say FFXI, or even more recently, Aion or dare I say it Vanilla WoW. At launch, pretty much all MMO's struggle - but they get better with time. My frustration is with a large part of community wanting this to be perfect out of the box and flaming rather than providing constructive commentary.

Your comments were constructive - they just copped my anger at many others that were not!


No worries. There has been a lot of negativity about the game. Some of it really constructive. Some of it trolling. There has also been a lot of blind faith and total unwillingness to accept that there are issues. There is a word people use for that, but I'll just call it "compliant mind" for this post. If there were an official forum ran by Square Enix (i.e. the now closed 'closed beta forum') I would have certainly left my comments there if I could and I am sure many others would have too. The game dev's really did not provide us an outlet for feedback during the past 30 days which has exacerbated the number of posts expressing concern here. They also did not provide any feedback until yesterday (8 days prior to release) which has also exacerbated the number of posts expressing concern. I do not believe they would have said anything at all if it were not for the feedback being provided on this forum and others like it, so however undesirable it may be, I believe it has served a valid purpose.

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#59 Sep 15 2010 at 9:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Osanshouo wrote:
Quote:
The road to **** is paved with good intention

Gee, and here I thought it was paved with ICP cds.
*shivers*


Just imagine if The Juggalos were providing feedback.
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#60 Sep 15 2010 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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LordAshal wrote:
Bolded two points that everyone should focus on.

This is definitely a new direction they are going with in regards to combat,crafting and other game play elements. I think most people are just afraid of change.


Uh, what new direction? Seriously, have you bothered to even look at what they're doing before trying to praise them? The crafting system is a rip from Vanguard and Everquest II, with the input options simply called something else. Gameplay? Weak, boring quests called "Guildleves" because FF fans need to have every single **** MMO term changed to suit their special snowflake complex?

As far as combat, every class is the same -- it's a combination of a Warrior and Rogue from WoW (which were the two most played classes before WotLK, which would be before initial development of FFXIV). You have your Stamina/Energy bars, your attacks consume Stamina/Energy and generate TP/Rage. After you have enough TP/Rage you can do a Weapon Skill/Yellow Attack. That's hardly groundbreaking at all.

You guys aren't getting anything new at all, simply 'new' mechanics from FFXI. That "no auto attack" crap? Yeah, that was also done in Age of Conan, where people can't stand the actual reality of a 100% input based combat system as it reduces it and FFXIV to an even worse button mashing system.

LordAshal wrote:
There are alot of errors that need to be fixed and SE has already said they have some fixes ready that are to be implemented at launch.


No, they stated that there were a lot of issues that they *wanted* to address -- major difference there. They also stated that they wanted to input Ranger's distance from the monster into the game and update the PC client to a higher version of DirectX in FFXI, but we see how well that played out.

LordAshal wrote:
It's gonna suck at first but I guess we're just going to have to slog thru and wait a few months and see if anything changes. I encourage everyone to keep trying to open a dialog with SE and give the game some time.


You can enjoy paying for weak service and terrible gameplay on a futile hope that they'll provide some magical fix (hint: SE doesn't do this and almost a decade of FFXI should make you aware of that fact). The other people that are holding off on even buying the game until half a year down the line are being realistic.

LordAshal wrote:
They're more than likely going to make back any losses they incurred during development within the first few months after release so hopefully they will be more relaxed and will focus on fixing these issues.


They'll get a surge of money from boxed sales, but that doesn't cover loss. This isn't an offline game; the developers are still getting paid, the servers need to be paid for, etc. At best, they'll break even like most other MMOs do on launch and HOPE that enough enjoy the **** in a box they've put out to keep in a steady income.
#61 Sep 15 2010 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's gonna suck at first but I guess we're just going to have to slog thru and wait a few months and see if anything changes. I encourage everyone to keep trying to open a dialog with SE and give the game some time.


Is there an official forum? Are there plans to open one if not?

Do you think there should be one? If so, why? If not, why not?
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#62 Sep 15 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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StrijderVechter wrote:


Uh, what new direction? Seriously, have you bothered to even look at what they're doing before trying to praise them? The crafting system is a rip from Vanguard and Everquest II, with the input options simply called something else. Gameplay? Weak, boring quests called "Guildleves" because FF fans need to have every single **** MMO term changed to suit their special snowflake complex?

As far as combat, every class is the same -- it's a combination of a Warrior and Rogue from WoW (which were the two most played classes before WotLK, which would be before initial development of FFXIV). You have your Stamina/Energy bars, your attacks consume Stamina/Energy and generate TP/Rage. After you have enough TP/Rage you can do a Weapon Skill/Yellow Attack. That's hardly groundbreaking at all.

You guys aren't getting anything new at all, simply 'new' mechanics from FFXI. That "no auto attack" crap? Yeah, that was also done in Age of Conan, where people can't stand the actual reality of a 100% input based combat system as it reduces it and FFXIV to an even worse button mashing system.


Every MMO copies aspects from other MMOs, every MMO developer knows this, there is no shame in it, they will all admit it.

Changing a battle system too much will only confuse people and not make any sense, having a TP bar AND Sta bar together is enough of a difference for most people. What do you want? To simultaniously play a minigame of tetris to build up TP?

No auto attack makes no difference, they just factor in whatever damage you would do by auto attacking into every other ability, and your "normal attack" is just a basic spell.
It actually makes more sense to not have auto attack when you think about it.

As appose to a button mashing system, I suppose you want something like FFXII where you just sit and watch most the battle?

If you really want something different play Eve.

Edited, Sep 15th 2010 1:20pm by MaFi0s0
#63 Sep 15 2010 at 12:06 PM Rating: Decent
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elm33 wrote:
Since the beta forums were closed, we had no choice but to look elsewhere to provide feedback to SE. As I understand it, this is one of their identified "flagship" sites, so it seems appropriate to comment here "hey your game needs ALOT of work in the following areas"..

A single dissenter fades softly into the background.. an angry mob can't help but be noticed.

chow.



DUDE THERE IS A FORUM ON THIS SITE WHERE THESE COMPLAINTS SHOULD GO AND IT IS NOT THE GENERAL FORUM.

If you were truly concerned about reaching SE and not just whining to people who really don't care about your repetitive and boring complaints with your pals who also want to whine you would be posting here in the FEEDBACK forum: http://www.zam.com/forum.html?forum=173

I am pretty sure the devs are actually looking at the forum that is described like this:

"Use this forum for specific feedback and suggestions to the developer, not the players. This forum will be monitored by the game developers. "

Notice how it says that This forum will be monitored by the game developers. - notice how the GENERAL forum DOESN'T say that?

If you want to whine in the general forum that is your prerogative - but you are a complete fool if you think your whining here made any difference in SE's announcement that they were going to fix the game's OBVIOUS flaws.

Frankly I would be fairly shocked if they needed anyone at all to tell them some of this basic stuff needed to be fixed.

Whine away dude, but don't pretend you're fixing the game by whining in the wrong forum.

By the way - if you posted your issues in the feedback forum - I would call it feedback - but here in the general forum - it is nothing but whining, griping and complaining since none of the people reading this forum can fix the game in any way.



Edited, Sep 15th 2010 11:07am by Olorinus
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#64 Sep 15 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
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MaFi0s0 wrote:
Every MMO copies aspects from other MMOs, every MMO developer knows this, there is no shame in it, they will all admit it.

Changing a battle system too much will only confuse people and not make any sense, having a TP bar AND Sta bar together is enough of a difference for most people. What do you want? To simultaniously play a minigame of tetris to build up TP?

No auto attack makes no difference, they just factor in whatever damage you would do by auto attacking into every other ability, and your "normal attack" is just a basic spell.
It actually makes more sense to not have auto attack when you think about it.

As appose to a button mashing system, I suppose you want something like FFXII where you just sit and watch most the battle?

If you really want something different play Eve.


Congratulations! You can post something that is in direct opposition of the point I was making when responding to someone else. Next time, try actually reading what I wrote, and not what you think I wrote.

KacesofCaitsith wrote:
Is there an official forum? Are there plans to open one if not?

Do you think there should be one? If so, why? If not, why not?


There is absolutely zero reason to not have one in today's world, especially considering every other MMO has their own official forums. However, idiots will simply assume that an official forum must become like the WoW forums, much like you can't have a questing leveling system without it becoming a direct copy from WoW. Leveling can't be done via solo, or entertaining, at all in their minds because a boring grind is necessary to become a Final Fantasy in their eyes and you must endure said boring grind with a group of other miserable people.

Square-Enix wouldn't have an official forum because they frankly don't give a sh*t about what players think until they start to lose money.

Edited, Sep 15th 2010 2:41pm by StrijderVechter
#65 Sep 15 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
elm33 wrote:
Since the beta forums were closed, we had no choice but to look elsewhere to provide feedback to SE. As I understand it, this is one of their identified "flagship" sites, so it seems appropriate to comment here "hey your game needs ALOT of work in the following areas"..

A single dissenter fades softly into the background.. an angry mob can't help but be noticed.

chow.



DUDE THERE IS A FORUM ON THIS SITE WHERE THESE COMPLAINTS SHOULD GO AND IT IS NOT THE GENERAL FORUM.

If you were truly concerned about reaching SE and not just whining to people who really don't care about your repetitive and boring complaints with your pals who also want to whine you would be posting here in the FEEDBACK forum: http://www.zam.com/forum.html?forum=173

I am pretty sure the devs are actually looking at the forum that is described like this:

"Use this forum for specific feedback and suggestions to the developer, not the players. This forum will be monitored by the game developers. "

Notice how it says that This forum will be monitored by the game developers. - notice how the GENERAL forum DOESN'T say that?

If you want to whine in the general forum that is your prerogative - but you are a complete fool if you think your whining here made any difference in SE's announcement that they were going to fix the game's OBVIOUS flaws.

Frankly I would be fairly shocked if they needed anyone at all to tell them some of this basic stuff needed to be fixed.

Whine away dude, but don't pretend you're fixing the game by whining in the wrong forum.

By the way - if you posted your issues in the feedback forum - I would call it feedback - but here in the general forum - it is nothing but whining, griping and complaining since none of the people reading this forum can fix the game in any way.


A mod is welcome to move this thread to feedback. I agree it should have been posted there but when I originally posted it, I didn't realize there was a specific feedback forum they were monitoring. You can see my post count and deduce I am not a veteran here, so forgive my ignorance, as I must have missed the note.

As far as the rest of your post goes, I have tried very hard to make constructive, legitimate comments and observations in this thread, which has been acknowledged by many people, in this thread. It is people like you who turn threads into a mess. It is the risk we run by posting on a public forum.

The only thing I got out of your comments was you whining, as a mod already let me know earlier in the thread, that there was another forum for feedback.

You added nothing to this post, but a bump to the top of the list.



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#66 Sep 15 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
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StrijderVechter wrote:


Congratulations! You can post something that is in direct opposition of the point I was making when responding to someone else. Next time, try actually reading what I wrote, and not what you think I wrote.



No, judging by the tone of your post I would say you were complaining about everything you mentioned, I am just trying to put these things in perspective for you thats all, and I dont care who you are responding to, next time try to think things through without being so worked up before posting.
#67 Sep 15 2010 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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elm33 wrote:


The only thing I got out of your comments was you whining, as a mod already let me know earlier in the thread, that there was another forum for feedback.

You added nothing to this post, but a bump to the top of the list.



I'm not whining because frankly I don't care - especially given the fact that you are not the only one spamming the general forum with threads like these.

I wouldn't have mentioned it at all if you hadn't made the suggestion that somehow all this spam in the wrong forum was what made SE announce they were going to fix things that pretty much everyone agrees suck.

But anyway - your right to free speech and the like.

enjoy.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#68 Sep 15 2010 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
DUDE THERE IS A FORUM ON THIS SITE WHERE THESE COMPLAINTS SHOULD GO AND IT IS NOT THE GENERAL FORUM.

If you were truly concerned about reaching SE and not just whining to people who really don't care about your repetitive and boring complaints with your pals who also want to whine you would be posting here in the FEEDBACK forum: http://www.zam.com/forum.html?forum=173

I am pretty sure the devs are actually looking at the forum that is described like this:

"Use this forum for specific feedback and suggestions to the developer, not the players. This forum will be monitored by the game developers. "

Notice how it says that This forum will be monitored by the game developers. - notice how the GENERAL forum DOESN'T say that?

If you want to whine in the general forum that is your prerogative - but you are a complete fool if you think your whining here made any difference in SE's announcement that they were going to fix the game's OBVIOUS flaws.

Frankly I would be fairly shocked if they needed anyone at all to tell them some of this basic stuff needed to be fixed.

Whine away dude, but don't pretend you're fixing the game by whining in the wrong forum.

By the way - if you posted your issues in the feedback forum - I would call it feedback - but here in the general forum - it is nothing but whining, griping and complaining since none of the people reading this forum can fix the game in any way.
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I'm not whining because frankly I don't care
Uhhh... ok.

I've posted in the feedback forum a few times, but the problem is that nobody really discusses anything there, it's all done here. As for "the developers will read this forum!", I have my severe doubts. They said this about FFXI as well.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#69 Sep 15 2010 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:


I'm not whining because frankly I don't care



Sorry. Not buying that one. People who don't care, don't do the following

1. post rage driven responses where the first sentence is in all capital letters, the digital version of screaming
2. Continue to belabor the point which, over and over again, when it was sufficiently made with your first scream.
3. Take a condescending tone throughout your flip out

Now, please, moderate yourself and lets get back on topic.

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#70 Sep 16 2010 at 12:14 PM Rating: Default
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MaFi0s0 wrote:
StrijderVechter wrote:


Congratulations! You can post something that is in direct opposition of the point I was making when responding to someone else. Next time, try actually reading what I wrote, and not what you think I wrote.



No, judging by the tone of your post I would say you were complaining about everything you mentioned, I am just trying to put these things in perspective for you thats all, and I dont care who you are responding to, next time try to think things through without being so worked up before posting.


I didn't know reading comprehension has fallen so far. Careful there.

Incorrect, I wasn't complaining about anything. I had no 'tone' of post, and where you get this from is beyond me. If you want to play this little immature game of yours then let's. By your 'tone' and lack of punctuation I'd assume you're a RBT (Rabid FanTard) who is incapable of seeing any sort of criticism against your favorite game developer as level headed. Was I cussing like a ******? No. Was I insulting the company? No. I merely pointed out the truth: nothing in the FFXIV crafting or combat system is new and original.

(That's not to say that not being original is wrong. There's nothing, absolutely nothing, wrong with reusing good ideas, as long as you know how to clean it up and improve upon it. So far, almost in FFXIV points towards the negative in that regards because they're trying too hard to be 'unique'.)

And you couldn't handle that.

Then again, as I said, if you had bothered to read what I wrote and not what you think I wrote, you wouldn't have responded akin to a simple-minded imbecile.


Edited, Sep 16th 2010 2:16pm by StrijderVechter
#71 Sep 16 2010 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
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Now, please, moderate yourself and lets get back on topic.


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