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#1 Sep 13 2010 at 1:20 AM Rating: Good
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Now I know I'll prob get flamed or rated down for this but I couldn't resist. Please be gentle and remember what sarcasm is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brj2UkUPjCI&feature=related

^That is all I can think of while reading all the "ZOMG FFXIV IS THE SUX" threads.

They just seem to be following a biased herd pouting the same 3-5 reasonings over and over, while refusing to look at the game from different angles.

So I think it's fair to give a rant from the other side.

/ranton


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Complaint:The UI...
- Ok I'll semi give you guys this one at the beginning of my rant in hopes that you'll be a little more gentle. The UI is laggy at its current BETA state. Personally, I find that the UI itself is not laggy. It's the mouse and the UI-to-server-to-UI interaction that is laggy. So I replaced my mouse with a controller and BAM! half the problem was solved until they implement hardware mouse and stop logging every button we press.


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Complaint: WTF its not like WoW and every other mmo that has tried to copy it since!?
-DUR! SE is not catering to you, I think they're catering to a more mature audience... so they've taken out the neon-colored box-modeled objects, replaced them with more realistic looking objects and textures, threw in some kind of thought process requirement to play and find your way through the game, and put part of rpg back into mmorpg with an engaging story and then called it a game in the Final Fantasy series. Now I'm not hating on WoW, I actually used to play, but in WoW all you have to do is point, click, and mindlessly follow an arrow because the entire game and it's direction has been laid out for you on a silver platter from the quests, player builds and even down to the crafting. Yes, FFXIV may have added quests/leves that do the same AND yes they may have given you an easy centralized location to find these quests, but there's a reason they limited it to 8-leves/48-hours. BECAUSE ITS MINDLESS and it's only a portion of the game they've created.


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Complaint: Why don't I have a mog house? Where's the AH? Where's my MP refresh? Where's my auto-attack? Wait a minute... this isn't ffxi-2?
-SE likes to try new things, I think it's apparent by the 14 different iterations of Final Fantasy within the series. Give it a shot and see where they take their ideas before going on a nerd rage. Why not just ask "Where's the materia?" if we're going to think like that? Try to focus on what they've given us instead of what they haven't. They never said there won't be an AH. They merely said they'd like us to mingle for a little while, maybe get to know each other, build up a community and THEN decide how much our time is worth in fake curreny... To me most of these sound like ideas to try and keep player's characters physically on the move and the player constantly engage, in both the game and community. The mog house has been replaced (for now, because player housing is still on the fence) with retainers and atherite with added functionality. My moogle never bought and sold items that I asked him to hold for me while I continued to go play and experience the game. Yes my mog house may have healed me everytime I entered it but did it serve as a teleportation and quest activation hub as well?
I commented on these complaints in another thread.


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Complaint:Ugh, I keep following the huge crowd of players down the main roads just outside of town and all I am seeing is 2 rats and a weasels...why?
- First try going where everyone else isn't...and explore! Not even going to play the "beta card" on this one because it would be too easy. These maps aren't barren, there's a plethora of mobs and hidden gems and areas. Yes many of them will one shot you to **** but the point is that they are there if you stray away from the herd and get as far as possible from over camped rats.


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Complaint: ARGH! SURPLUS! Why are you punishing me for doing the same thing for 10 hours straight!?!
- Maybe it's because SE spent a few years developing an engaging story line, quests, a huge beautiful world, an in depth crafting system, 18 different classes with the potential to create unlimited non-conforming sub-classes through the mixing and matching of abilities.... Maybe, and I'm totally going out on a limb here, just maybe SE would like their players to experience as much of the game as possible that they've spent so much time and energy on instead of grinding to end game in less than a week.Why else would they reward you with a surplus decrease for doing things other than grinding? Don't think of it as punishing the player base, think of it as punishing the 4956794586 RMT that will be grinding the same ol' boring grind and rewarding the player base with the rest of the game that was created. They're not punishing you, you're punishing yourself by paying RL money to do the same exact thing over and over again in a virtual world.
Please see this beautiful video on the surplus system. Thanks to chrismalazarte.



/rantoff

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 3:21am by hungerforce

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 4:51am by hungerforce
#2 Sep 13 2010 at 1:55 AM Rating: Default
This is a very insulting and immature thread.

You also make a lot of complaints up, like the 'copy other mmos' complaint, which I haven't heard from anyone. Show me one thread that was created because they want a WoW clone. ONE thread.

We are beta testers, but have no way of reporting bugs and offering our insight as testers to the developer. What do you expect us to do? People aren't even complaining, they're being relatively level headed about their comments about the game. It's people like you who feel the need to start flaming and insulting others simply for what they feel.
This here is a blatant 'flame' thread from the get-go, as you're outright insulting other posters in your OP.
That's not right.

Sorry, but if you aren't going to be civil then there's no reason to engage in this silly debate over whether or not players should voice concerns

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 4:01am by DirectorCobbs
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#3 Sep 13 2010 at 2:03 AM Rating: Good
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Your not there to report bugs buddy. SE is testing server capacity. And great post, Agree with everything. Ppl just hate the fact of paying and not playing the way they want to, which is fine but yah if you don't like it don't play.
#4 Sep 13 2010 at 2:06 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not trying to start a debate, I was just trying to throw an overly sarcastic rant out there from the other side.

No where did I mentioned anything about bugs, most of this thread was about biased complaints based on comparisons to different games, expecting there to be similarities(hence the wow reference) and then getting mad when the similarities they want are not there. I can find a handful of posts comparing the beta to other mmos with expectations in similarity.

But since you brought up bug reporting, open beta applicants aren't for bug testing but rather for server load testing. There would be no way for them to handle that amount of complaints which is why the smaller number of the other phase testers were given access to the bug reporting forums. I'm sure they will open up a bug reporting system for all players once the game has started running.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 4:08am by hungerforce

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 4:58am by hungerforce
#5 Sep 13 2010 at 2:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
This is a very insulting and immature thread.

Guys, stop flaming me and other posters for no reason. Definitely not cool.
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#6 Sep 13 2010 at 3:24 AM Rating: Good
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half the problem was solved

...and the other half lived on happily ever after.
Even with a controller, the UI mechanics are horrible and dated. And that comes from a guy who never had any problems with the FXI UI.

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Try to focus on what they've given us instead of what they haven't.

Difficult, since they left out some of the most basic funtions one's come to expect from a MMORPG in 2010.

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My moogle never bought and sold items that I asked him to hold for me while I continued to go play and experience the game.

My moogle also never hid in a dungeon paved with 1000 lookalike zombies.

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First try going where everyone else isn't...and explore!

Good idea. And have fun running all the way back there after getting 1-shot trying to reach the dark brown squirrel camp (since you got fed up with the light brown squirrel camp).

...and I love the surplus system. Too bad it seems to be almost gone in oB.
#7 Sep 13 2010 at 3:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
...and the other half lived on happily ever after.
Even with a controller, the UI mechanics are horrible and dated. And that comes from a guy who never had any problems with the FXI U

I never said the other half was going on happily ever after, but I did say its what we have until they implement hardware mouse and stop logging every UI action for debugging purposes. Personally I havent had controller issues with the UI mechanics.

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Difficult, since they left out some of the most basic funtions one's come to expect from a MMORPG in 2010.

This goes back to everyone expecting something based on other MMO's... when has SE's RPGs ever been like others? They have their own ideas and own things they want to try. It's ok to compare but its not ok to expect things based on other games and then get mad when what you were expecting is absent. They're a different company with a different game. Things will be different.


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My moogle also never hid in a dungeon paved with 1000 lookalike zombies.


I'll agree with you on that they all look alike, I never said it was perfect. But the fact that they look alike doesn't stop them from performing their functionality which is buying and selling while you're away. They're still distinguishable by name even if they do look alike. It's no different from the hoard of naked mules sitting directly outside of Jeuno in ffxi.

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Good idea. And have fun running all the way back there after getting 1-shot trying to reach the dark brown squirrel camp (since you got fed up with the light brown squirrel camp).

I've ventured pretty far without dying and found a variety of mobs that have the potential to level on. While exploring I've fought bogys, spriggans, moles, rats, squirrels, coblyn, chiglets, beetles, mushrooms and more as starting mobs and I've seen many of mobs we have to look forward to fighting... just have to get off the beaten path.
#8 Sep 13 2010 at 4:01 AM Rating: Decent
He never mentioned "sameyness", he mentioned SE implementing what they've learned in the past into this game. It would increase usability and enjoyment, because that is the core of the complaint threads and reports to SE.

Normally fans are FOR usability and enjoyment enhancement. Why FFXIV fans on this forum seem to want to cover everything up and shut everyone out, I have no idea. It's bizarre to me, but then again I'm not used to such hostile anti-objectiveness. The flamers are more subjective than any of the quote-unquote "whiners".
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#9 Sep 13 2010 at 4:18 AM Rating: Decent
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He never mentioned "sameyness", he mentioned SE implementing what they've learned in the past into this game. It would increase usability and enjoyment, because that is the core of the complaint threads and reports to SE.


I have no clue what you're replying to there. No one said anything in this thread about SE learning from the past. I don't think you're grasping the concept of what's being said.

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Normally fans are FOR usability and enjoyment enhancement. Why FFXIV fans on this forum seem to want to cover everything up and shut everyone out, I have no idea. It's bizarre to me, but then again I'm not used to such hostile anti-objectiveness. The flamers are more subjective than any of the quote-unquote "whiners".


I'm all for usability and all for enjoyment. I never said that weren't bugs in the game or that there weren't things that could be improved upon. The base of the original post lies in complaints about features being absent that were expected and those players that get upset because those expected features are not there and are instead replaced by new things/concepts/ideas. I'm not saying things are perfect and I'm not being anti-objective, I'm being anti-close-minded. I'm against those that are nerd raging because they're not getting their way or getting everything they want handed to them in a neatly packed box.

Take for example your post about the chat log. I completely agree that the chat log needs improvement and actually rated you up. But at the same time I am probably also basing that on comparisons to FFXI and other MMO chat logs, which is why you don't see me posting a heated discussion on the topic. Because I know its unfair of me to expect certain things based on other games and then get mad when its different, missing or doesn't work the way that I expect it to.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 6:27am by hungerforce
#10 Sep 13 2010 at 4:37 AM Rating: Decent
hungerforce wrote:
Quote:
He never mentioned "sameyness", he mentioned SE implementing what they've learned in the past into this game. It would increase usability and enjoyment, because that is the core of the complaint threads and reports to SE.


I have no clue what you're replying to there. No one said anything in this thread about SE learning from the past. I don't think you're grasping the concept of what's being said.

You said "This goes back to everyone expecting something based on other MMO's... when has SE's RPGs ever been like others?"
We aren't expecting SE to base anything off of any other MMOs. We're expecting something at least at the level of usability as FFXI. It could be as different as SE wants it to be, but it still has to be easy to use and effective as a UI, just like in any other game.

Quote:

Quote:
Normally fans are FOR usability and enjoyment enhancement. Why FFXIV fans on this forum seem to want to cover everything up and shut everyone out, I have no idea. It's bizarre to me, but then again I'm not used to such hostile anti-objectiveness. The flamers are more subjective than any of the quote-unquote "whiners".


I'm all for usability and all for enjoyment. I never said that weren't bugs in the game or that there weren't things that could be improved upon. The base of the original post lies in complaints about features being absent that were expected and those players that get upset because those expected features are not there and are instead replaced by new things/concepts/ideas. I'm not being anti-objective, I'm being anti-close-minded. I'm against those that are nerd raging because they're not getting their way or getting everything they want handed to them in a neatly packed box.

No you never denied there were bugs, you, and other, are simply telling everyone to stop mentioning them because you personally find it to be 'too complainy'. You claim we're "upset", "nerd raging", and "not getting what our spoiled-selves want in a nice box".
And you managed to use all those insults in just a couple sentences.
This is how you flame people and troll feedback conversations.

Nobody is nerd raging. I have not seen a "WTF ?!?!?!" anywhere. Nobody is butthurt, I've never heard people saying "Why SE! You used to be so good and now youre falling behind! what happened to the joys I had with FF6 as a kid!" - that's butthurt.
Nobody is acting like we're entitled to the world and it's stars. We're worried SE won't fix normal usability problems because of the environment they've cased us in.
Nobody is angry at the 'new concepts and ideas'. We're worried because these concepts and ideas are not working for us, and we want to know if SE is going to improve them.
However, SE does not tell us, which makes us feel like they won't change it (thats the risk you, as a product or service business, create when leaving customers and clients in the dark).

Our worries are justified, and our feedback is sensible. So we won't change this about ourselves to suit your fancy. Therefore, the only thing we can do to make the few of you happy is to stop posting, and we won't do that either. So stay out of the objective threads if all you want to be is subjective. You are being 100% subjective.

When mass amounts of people say things like "hey, the mouse is slow and i want it to be fixed so i can play the game more enjoyably"
And you call them a nerd-raging self-entitled crybaby,
that's you responding in a very subjective and offensively-charged manner


If you'd like to reassess how you're treating your fellow beta testers, you may step back and see it objectively.

If you're against nerd-raging fanboy trolls, then cool. So am I. I think everyone is, by principle. But I don't see any 'whiner nerdragers' here.


edit:
Quote:
Take for example your post about the chat log. I completely agree that the chat log needs improvement and actually rated you up. But at the same time I am probably also basing that on comparisons to FFXI and other MMO chat logs, which is why you don't see me posting a heated discussion on the topic. Because I know its unfair of me to expect certain things based on other games and then get mad when its different, missing or doesn't work the way that I expect it to.

I recommend you be as understanding in others discussions; with things you even slightly disagree with. There is no reason to begin a heated discussion when the discussion isn't heated to begin with. Never draw a sword on an unarmed opponent..
especially if that opponent is simply saying "this soup doesn't have enough salt, could you lend me a salt packet?"

See where we're coming from? It's basic and appreciated to allow community discussion on all sorts of things, whether or not you want to take part. And whether or not you think there are too many discussions about the same things.

The less you use heated discussions as a tool to ruin harmless criticism threads, the better this forum and community will be. Agree?

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 6:44am by DirectorCobbs
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#11 Sep 13 2010 at 4:56 AM Rating: Good
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No you never denied there were bugs, you, and other, are simply telling everyone to stop mentioning them because you personally find it to be 'too complainy'. You claim we're "upset", "nerd raging", and "not getting what our spoiled-selves want in a nice box".
And you managed to use all those insults in just a couple sentences.
This is how you flame people and troll feedback conversations.

I'm not trolling, I am very willing to listen and respond to all thoughts.

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I've never heard people saying "Why SE! You used to be so good and now youre falling behind! what happened to the joys I had with FF6 as a kid!"

I've actually seen many a thread were someone will complain that X feature from FFXIV doesn't work like Y feature in another game.

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You said "This goes back to everyone expecting something based on other MMO's... when has SE's RPGs ever been like others?"
We aren't expecting SE to base anything off of any other MMOs. We're expecting something at least at the level of usability as FFXI. It could be as different as SE wants it to be, but it still has to be easy to use and effective as a UI, just like in any other game.


You make a good point on UI usability, but if you read my post I do agree that the UI is buggy. But I am basing that on how well it performs its functions, not the actual functions themselves or the functions it may be missing compared to another mmo.

But that aside you keep going on about usability and the core of my post has NOTHING to do with usability. 95% of it has to do with players being upset about game mechanics and features that are missing or different than what they were expecting. And most of the mechanics and features that people are/were expecting are based on previous MMO's.

So again to recap, I do agree that there are UI and usability issues, but that is not what the OP was about. Only the first part mentioned the UI and I actually agreed with everyone that it has its bugs.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 7:01am by hungerforce
#12 Sep 13 2010 at 4:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Deadgye wrote:
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This is a very insulting and immature thread.

Guys, stop flaming me and other posters for no reason. Definitely not cool.


Lol... I see what you did there!
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