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Why bash WoW players?Follow

#1 Sep 13 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
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This applies to all other MMOs but WoW is the most popular example.

This is a common trend I see in many threads. If anyone makes any reference or comparison to WoW in any way they're almost certainly flamed to the depths of troll ****. That and anyone who even states they enjoy WoW is drowned with hateful replies.

Why all the hate people? I'm not a big fan of WoW either but, I don't think it's really that bad a game. For better or worse it has done some things right. I don't think it's wrong to compare FFXIV to any MMO.

Disagree sure but remove the hate/sarcasm from your posts people. We're a community here and at the very least we can all try to show each other respect. Instead state why you don't like WoW and how you feel FFXIV is better. Thats way more constructive and can educate the other readers.

I don't say this to be condescending to anyone I just feel that our community could be stronger. Alienating people and their opinions based on one game very close minded.








Edited, Sep 13th 2010 3:57pm by sparkytenks
#2 Sep 13 2010 at 1:54 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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¯\(º_o)/¯

I've been curious about that myself. For some reason, just making a reference to a similarity between FFXIV and WoW results in immediate rage for some people.
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#3 Sep 13 2010 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
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Yeahs it's almost like they're beserker class or something.
#4 Sep 13 2010 at 1:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Haters gonna hate....

I'm not WoW's biggest fan, but I respect it for the success that it is. But doesn't matter which game we're talking about, someone is gonna have hate against it. Any MMO I had played before, 3/5 people scoffed at the mention of FFXI when I tried to explain why it was so good. I try to remain unbaised in any debate, but it all comes down in the end to personal opinion. And most of those, are just feelings based on lack of, or poor experience.
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#5 Sep 13 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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I'll give 2 reasons, and I think it covers most of the hatred.

first being that WoW is currently the mainstream, the establishment. Its up on a giant pedestal. Some people don't like it because its kitschy and popular. because of its popularity we're seeing alot of its features show up in other games.

the other reason, is that the difficulty curve is alot lower than most games, and in doing so selling alot of subscriptions to those who normally would have avoided MMOs. PvP is determined mostly by hours in (to get slightly better gear), and connection speed. PvE for the past few years has been based more on group makeup and buffs, gear from grinding, and connection speed, opposed to resource management and decision making like FFXI was.

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#6 Sep 13 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Fo' fun.


































NOT A SERIOUS RESPONSE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM. THE CONTENTS OF THIS POST SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.
#7 Sep 13 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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I think I can explain a part of it.

I have played WoW and other MMOs. The WoW players seem to get frustrated when things don't work the same way that they do in WoW and (if you have ever played WoW you'll know this) they tend to be rather elitist. WoW hasn't really been a game where the community comes first for a long time, it's more about who does the most damage, heals the best, tanks the best and who cares if those people are arrogant pricks - so long as they do the job.

Just to add perspective, I wasn't a casual WoW player either, but I am a firm believer that you don't have to be an arrogant prick to do a good job.

Personally, I cringe when I see people from WoW as I am normally worried that they will be elitist and/ or very impatient when it comes to learning new things.

But that's just my point of view, I never tell anyone in other games that I play WoW (unless I know them well lol)
#8 Sep 13 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
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My bet is because a lot of previous MMORPG have been trying to imitate WoW and its success, at least, that's what people are saying. I personally only know that Warhammer: Reckoning Online really did its best on imitating WoW. To say the least, most of these MMORPG don't tend to be successful.

So, this venom against WoW comes from people not wanting FFXIV's ingenuity to be ruined by trying to follow what good things that WoW did to the MMORPG genre.

... having said that, WoW is a zombie game, but there are definitely a lot of technical designs that are impressive... and each classes are balanced to the very point. But people are obviously more worried about the zombifying part. :P
#9 Sep 13 2010 at 2:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think the main problem is the bad rep of the community that WoW has, and people are affraid that its going to migrate here.
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#10 Sep 13 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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I personally only know that Warhammer: Reckoning Online really did its best on imitating WoW.


I played Warhammer to endgame and did almost every endgame run(except a couple tomb kings), I completely disagree with you. The PvP in WAR is FAAAAAAAR superior to WoWs. The endgame doesn't even include any raids, except for PvP(city siege, fortress, etc). All endgame PvE is single group content. It's difficult, a lot of times if you lose one party member it can make or break you. Also the tanking in WAR is like no other MMORPG I have ever seen, people in WAR often tried to tank using the same kind of setups used in WoW and failed. My guess is you didn't play much WAR, maybe tried it but didn't really experience the game. As someone who saw just about everything in it, you are wrong.
#11 Sep 13 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Zidaga the Eccentric wrote:
I think the main problem is the bad rep of the community that WoW has, and people are affraid that its going to migrate here.
Sounds plausible. I wonder if they realize that covering your ears and yelling isn't exactly a great solution to the problem, though.
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#12 Sep 13 2010 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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I have played WoW and I did enjoy it for a bit. I just could never stay drawn into the game for some reason. I never felt connected to the world because the story wasn't that great. And the community was just saturated with d-bags.

But my point really is sorta to "hate the game and not the player". Explain where and why that sorta thing. Kind of what you guys are doing right now replying to this post. But just plain bashing people for saying anything about WoW or any other MMO doesn't really offer a counter comparison.


edit: Ment to say DID enjoy it.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 4:10pm by sparkytenks
#13 Sep 13 2010 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
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Sorry, I over generalized. It is true that WAR is known for its PvP system and gameplay is indeed quite different, but the UI (aside from the combat) and its technical setup is very similar to WoW.
#14 Sep 13 2010 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've put some thought into this and I can only say that for some people, it's just a need to feel superior to others. World of Warcraft is easy to hate, because it's big. It's big, because it's easy. You know that phrase "If it was easy, everyone would do it?" It is kind of the same manner of thinking here. A lot of people from FFXI have this sense of elitism, because they stuck through what is considered to be the "harder" (debatable) game.

It makes those of us who played and enjoyed both uncomfortable. So WoW isn't your cup of tea. We see that. However, WoW did many things right, and the comparisons that we are making are because we want to see FFXIV get it right too. We want to see that, because we want the game to be playable. We want it to be playable, because.. We want to PLAY it.

No one is here trying to promote WoW, we are here because we love Final Fantasy. If more people saw that, maybe the hate would stop.

#15 Sep 13 2010 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Sorry, I over generalized. It is true that WAR is known for its PvP system and gameplay is indeed quite different, but the UI (aside from the combat) and its technical setup is very similar to WoW.


Every MMORPG has a similar UI. FFXIV has a circular map in the upper right hand corner, a hotbar at the bottom, and a chatbox in the lower left so it's similar to WoW's UI lol.
#16 Sep 13 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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Torrence wrote:
I've put some thought into this and I can only say that for some people, it's just a need to feel superior to others. World of Warcraft is easy to hate, because it's big. It's big, because it's easy. You know that phrase "If it was easy, everyone would do it?" It is kind of the same manner of thinking here. A lot of people from FFXI have this sense of elitism, because they stuck through what is considered to be the "harder" (debatable) game.

It makes those of us who played and enjoyed both uncomfortable. So WoW isn't your cup of tea. We see that. However, WoW did many things right, and the comparisons that we are making are because we want to see FFXIV get it right too. We want to see that, because we want the game to be playable. We want it to be playable, because.. We want to PLAY it.

No one is here trying to promote WoW, we are here because we love Final Fantasy. If more people saw that, maybe the hate would stop.


I agree. Some people seem to become zelots for a game or the developer sometimes. ("IT CAN DO NO WRONG!!!!!") There isn't anything wrong with desiring a better game. If one game did it maybe FFXIV or WAR Hammer can do it as well or better.

On the same coin I'm sure all players don't want their experienced watered down. But thats what discussing these parallels should be for. To find out what would work and why and why not.
#17 Sep 13 2010 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
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BRizzl3 wrote:
Quote:
Sorry, I over generalized. It is true that WAR is known for its PvP system and gameplay is indeed quite different, but the UI (aside from the combat) and its technical setup is very similar to WoW.


Every MMORPG has a similar UI. FFXIV has a circular map in the upper right hand corner, a hotbar at the bottom, and a chatbox in the lower left so it's similar to WoW's UI lol.


Uh, no.

The menu setup is totally different? With WAR, on my brief exposure to it, I was thinking to myself, "what am I playing? WoW? Even though this is supposed to be different?". Granted it does get different later, it sure really radiated a slight copy from WoW. :P

Edit: Anyway, we are derailing the topic. I am sorry if I offended you by comparing WAR and WoW. :P

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 4:18pm by MaxwellDemon
#18 Sep 13 2010 at 2:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'll have to agree that some people throw it into arguments where it doesn't belong and sometimes with such anger & hatred. I do make jokes about it though, especially in game with my LS. Subtly correcting people when they say toon or call a DD a DPS, making jokes about "jumping".(All in good fun)

Some of that is more of FF vs other mmos than just WoW, but I guess the focus gets put on the really popular one...

I'm often the oddball in the conversation because I'm not a mmo player, just a final fantasy player...I have no reason to dislike the ones I haven't played...

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 4:28pm by TwistedOwl
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#19 Sep 13 2010 at 2:29 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Subtly correcting people when they say toon or call a DD a DPS, making jokes about "jumping".(All in good fun)


Calling a DD a DPS is the same thing. If you say you need DD for a group, it's the same as saying you need DPS. You mean you need damage. Don't get all semantical either, I know one is per second and one is just damage, but people will understand either.
#20 Sep 13 2010 at 2:31 PM Rating: Default
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sparkytenks wrote:
This applies to all other MMOs but WoW is the most popular example.

This is a common trend I see in many threads. If anyone makes any reference or comparison to WoW in any way they're almost certainly flamed to the depths of troll ****. That and anyone who even states they enjoy WoW is drowned with hateful replies.


If you say you enjoy even an SE game around these forums you can get the same treatment from the constantly cynical and/or jaded group of players, especially in regards to XIV so there's just hateful people out there. I know from what I see it's because people who always bring up WoW this and WoW that make it seem like WoW invented MMORPGs and that no MMORPG before it existed when all it did was make it Painfully OBVIOUS how MMORPGs typically were designed when compared to games like FFXI and just made them easier.
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#21 Sep 13 2010 at 2:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:
sparkytenks wrote:
This applies to all other MMOs but WoW is the most popular example.

This is a common trend I see in many threads. If anyone makes any reference or comparison to WoW in any way they're almost certainly flamed to the depths of troll ****. That and anyone who even states they enjoy WoW is drowned with hateful replies.


If you say you enjoy even an SE game around these forums you can get the same treatment from the constantly cynical and/or jaded group of players, especially in regards to XIV so there's just hateful people out there. I know from what I see it's because people who always bring up WoW this and WoW that make it seem like WoW invented MMORPGs and that no MMORPG before it existed when all it did was make it Painfully OBVIOUS how MMORPGs typically were designed when compared to games like FFXI and just made them easier.


Which was enough for people to start considering that WoW had redefined the meaning of MMORPG in the past decade.

Of course, it probably helped that they made everything so user-friendly that anyone can take it up and play it with an understanding (including graphically *wince*). So, WoW is probably THE MMORPG for a lot of these people. I can imagine a lot of people probably didn't play MMORPG before that.
#22 Sep 13 2010 at 2:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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This is the way the world works: Someone builds something revolutionary, and everyone else uses that as a base, and tries to 1up it.

Grand Theft Auto III kick started the Sandbox genre into overdrive, everyone else tried to make one, very few actually pulled it off.

Devil May Cry set off the Stylish Action genre. I love my Ninja Gaiden and Bayonetta for it.

WoW made MMO's suitable for mass consumption. It made an easy to follow game, made PvP fun and addicting, and offered an easy to use UI. Almost every MMO that has come out in the following years, have tried in some way to adopt what WoW did right, and make it their own. But pre-WoW, players had to huff thru more complicated MMO's, and most have fond memories of the attached sense of accomplishment gained from their experiences.

FFXI was my first MMO. I went thru a lot of hardships just to get my first job to max level. I had to exercise alot of patience just to get groups to grind, do quests. I worked hard to make money and get needed gear. I got annoyed with alot of it, and when I went to try WoW, I found the game so freaking simple, I had fun! But as I got my first class to max level, started doing endgame events and such, I found I had accomplished so much in so little time, it all felt kinda empty. I can see why WoW got off to such a great start. And with most of it's user base being "young", they grow up with the idea that this is how a MMO should be. It's hard to accept change, or something different sometimes. Who wants to leave their comfort zone?

But as I said in my earlier post: "Haters gonna hate.."
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#23 Sep 13 2010 at 2:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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The graphics are getting an overhaul. I don't know if you have seen some of the screen shots coming out of Cata, but they are certainly moving forward in terms of game detail. FFXIV is still a lot more polished (graphically speaking) in a lot of ways, but Bliz is also dealing with an aging mmo with a playerbase on aging hardware and they aren't as keen as SE to throw their subscriptions to the wolves in favor of "Using modern hardware".

I hope that SE takes some of the suggestions to heart. Their biggest mistake with FFXI was that the game simply wasn't user-friendly. It just wasn't. It seems like instead of learning from that mistake, they are in danger of repeating history. We are all just trying to warn them so that they can fix the glaring issues (hardware mouse, basic UI tweaks, etc.) Blizzard and SE's places might have been switched, if FFXI wasn't so cruel in its early days.
#24 Sep 13 2010 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
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You WoW players wouldn't last two seconds in MY game.

But seriously, around here it's because WoW is pretty much the antithesis of FFXI. People bash on other people who are even slightly different. WoW being the exact opposite of FFXI, it's pretty easy to see where all the trolling comes from.
#25 Sep 13 2010 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
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LordDVS wrote:
This is the way the world works: Someone builds something revolutionary, and everyone else uses that as a base, and tries to 1up it.

Grand Theft Auto III kick started the Sandbox genre into overdrive, everyone else tried to make one, very few actually pulled it off.

Devil May Cry set off the Stylish Action genre. I love my Ninja Gaiden and Bayonetta for it.

WoW made MMO's suitable for mass consumption. It made an easy to follow game, made PvP fun and addicting, and offered an easy to use UI. Almost every MMO that has come out in the following years, have tried in some way to adopt what WoW did right, and make it their own. But pre-WoW, players had to huff thru more complicated MMO's, and most have fond memories of the attached sense of accomplishment gained from their experiences.

FFXI was my first MMO. I went thru a lot of hardships just to get my first job to max level. I had to exercise alot of patience just to get groups to grind, do quests. I worked hard to make money and get needed gear. I got annoyed with alot of it, and when I went to try WoW, I found the game so freaking simple, I had fun! But as I got my first class to max level, started doing endgame events and such, I found I had accomplished so much in so little time, it all felt kinda empty. I can see why WoW got off to such a great start. And with most of it's user base being "young", they grow up with the idea that this is how a MMO should be. It's hard to accept change, or something different sometimes. Who wants to leave their comfort zone?

But as I said in my earlier post: "Haters gonna hate.."


That's a really great post and I agree with it. Those that hate on wow hard tend to be from "old school" generation of mmo's
#26 Sep 13 2010 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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FFXI wasn't my first MMO but it was the one I invest most of my time into.
That being said I had a lot of issues as well. I felt and still feel the difficulty in the game was way to unforgiving.

I then tried WoW when it released and was greeted with a game I could play without waiting for ever and pulling my hair out. But as time went on the gratification of the game really wasn't there.

One example I can give is gear. In FFXI gear was very difficult to get but when you got the good gear it could last quite awhile if not forever. In WoW I felt the gear in the game was to saturated(to many items) nothing felt special to me in anyway.

These comparisons are what I mean though. Just what I noted between the two games. So far I feel FFXIV is somewhere in the middle of both. Which I feel is good because I like to be challenged not frustrated.
#27 Sep 13 2010 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
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There are at least 72 kittens that will have to be sacrificed to cleanse this thread from WoW being referenced that many times. I am going to have a busy day tomorrow. And for the record, I did play it for a little while. Made it all the way to 20 in Vanilla before I gave up on the game. Graphics weren't just doing it for me. I know it had fun quests, good storyline if you wanted to read all of the quests. It had fun game play and a decent system too. But I just couldn't get past the cartoony feel so I went to Final Fantasy XI for 6 years. It all depends on the person in the end what they choose to play, doesn't make the game any better than Final Fantasy XI and vice versa.

Dammit, 73 kittens now. I tried not to say it in my post.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 5:27pm by Excenmille
#28 Sep 13 2010 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
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Personaly, I've experianced the almost everything WoW had to offer. Some of the WoW comunity I would welcome but alot more than I'de like to think about is made up of people I'de rather never have to talk to to begin with.

The Elitism and cluelessness are difficult not to notice. One can only put up with so many imature twits wanting to cyber too :P
#29 Sep 13 2010 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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My all time favorite MMO was FFXI. I lived breathed FFXI. And it wasn't easy getting 3 char's to max level and all other jobs past and out of the Dunes lol.

I stopped playing and moved to WoW after 4 fun years playing FFXI. I got burned out with endgame and leveling.

WoW I have to say I hate the community in it. That is the primary thing I miss from FFXI I often thought about reopening my account but then I think of double charges and what not and fear of requesting one back and getting banned, heard the story many times. But even with that I've restarted FFXI and I will say I'm a bit spoiled with how easy it was to get parties in WoW and waiting 5 hours as a WHM for a PT in prime time was kinda a buzz killer.

Oh and side note I wish that the AH in WoW was like FFXI, hated how people could see what you put your stuff up for and then undercut it.

To end this unlike most people saying "FFXIV should take this from WoW" I would be doing the opposite I'd like to see things from FF in WoW.
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#30 Sep 13 2010 at 3:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Personally I like WoW and I like FFXIV... but I went in knowing that the two games were going to be completely different.

Its interesting to see in the posts that a critical post against FFXIV leads to responses of: "Sorry the game isn't as easy as WoW, loser."
and posts that are supportive of FFXIV leads to responses of "You're just a SE fanboy!"

Perhaps we all actually have valid points on both sides?

Nothing is ever as good or as bad as forum post make it seem XD

#31 Sep 13 2010 at 4:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pontipy wrote:
Nothing is ever as good or as bad as forum post make it seem XD


I heard that humanity likes to exaggerate just to get their points across to other people. :P
#32 Sep 13 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Good
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I rarely if ever point my finger at WoW'ers but my main issue is what I call "WoW-Knights" they say they are sick of WoW, leave WoW, come to X mmo, complain about everything that isn't WoW about it, suggest everything that is WoW, then go back to WoW. They at times come in droves, and fail to understand that not every game is mainstream, not every game is made for them, not every game is made for everyone etc.

Doubled with the fact for how WoW's community is known to be, a lot (most) of people have played WoW before and actually left to get *away* from that community specifically. They probably feel endganered when a new, cool looking, aimed at them type of game comes up, then the above "WoW-Knights" start to come in storm and ask why isn't WoW.

Not saying all of its player are that way, I played it too and I knew some cool people among the slop, but a lot are and they do just that, making as much noise as they can in progress.

People get defensive about something they like, it'll all die down a bit after release.
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#33 Sep 13 2010 at 5:03 PM Rating: Good
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sparkytenks wrote:
Why bash WoW players?


Because it's fun? *ashamed*
#34 Sep 13 2010 at 5:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have been playing both since a really long time (FF XI since PS2 release, WoW since release). I am not judge in any matter, nor am I a reference for anything. Everything writed here is purely my own opinions.

First off, I have very good friends in a WoW guild. They are mature people who jokes around and they are fun to play with. And you know, they laugh about the fact people call characters "toons", how GS is the most epic fail to ever happen in a video game and how we need to put, even in raids, time to comply that this is the end and that real matter more than our progression. No drama ever. They recruit. but don't bump thread around, as it is not quantity that they wanna bring, but quality and good people as a whole. They are selfless, helping people, never screaming to each others, relaxed. Pure joy to be playing with.

Do you know how this feels like ? FF XI, and that's why I still play WoW, for the community I've found there. Of course I don't play that much often anymore, but I do think it's the greatest bunch of people I've found on WoW.


Otherwise, from a spectator point, it is horrible.


/vent on

Flame me for this, karma's gonna get low, I don't care on this one. I express what I really do feel like about it and I do hereby accept also any unkind reply that will be posted in regard of this. Oh, and I also love you all !

Often I do tell people in my guild how a majority of WoW players should have played FF XI before ever step up in a MMO. Not because FF XI is harder or have superior elements than WOW itself. It's because of community and respect a lot of player learned or got from FF XI. Yes there were/are jerks also on FF XI, but seriously nothing is given on a plate, you had to work, and not just alone, with more than 40 people sometiems.. Until recently, a lot of stuff were acquiring by helping others getting something. You had to be respectful, you needed people to achieve excellence and it wasn't a PUG 25-man away.

Barrens chat, Goldshire chat, TRADE FREAKING CHAT. Try to see something when those are on and active under loads of irrespectful comments, flame wars, bumping and spamming PUGs and Guild recruiting. Other than guild members, and even so, nobody seems to care to the one next to him. If you're ****** or wanna make fun of someone, you can always jump on another character, nobody will recognize you. Where is the entire respect in those childish behavior ? Who would want anybody doing that coming into your community ?

You know another problem ? PUGs. Blizzard care about their customers. They care meaby a lot more than SE, I agree with that. But PUGs ? Pinnacle of selfishness. It helps casual and I really do thing it does, but don't help the community in a whole in my opinion. Another good reason not to need anybody, you just need to have a good GS and you have access to a raid whitout anybody knowing you're a moron or can't pull their numbers in DPS. Seriously, you don't need to respect us as nobody will need you anyway afterward...

I still play WoW. I love the lore, some of the storyline. I loved when you had to work hard with everybody so you could attain something in-game. I loved how Vanilla and surprisingly BC were. Even by voicing my opinion, if you like WoW, I am happy for you as you found a game that you enjoy and that's a good thing.

Except, when you come to a FF XI or FF XIV forums and knows how the terminology is (if you don't, I mean, it's understandable), PLEASE, PRETTY PRETTY PLEASE, use it. It is not a "guild", it's "Linkshell" or "Company". They are no RAIDS, we do not even know if there is some kind of PROGRESSION.

WoW is popular, but his status doesn't gives anybody a reason to use his terminology to identify things while it might confused players more than anything. It is not a reference either. Who would really want childish and selfishness coming from that game (generalisation, but again you see my point)?

/vent off

Again, and I mean it,










I love you all !



Edited, Sep 13th 2010 7:09pm by MisterRandy
#35 Sep 13 2010 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Why all the hate people? I'm not a big fan of WoW either but, I don't think it's really that bad a game. For better or worse it has done some things right. I don't think it's wrong to compare FFXIV to any MMO.


To be honest I don't think WoW is a bad game either, it holds up well in its niche. But it is a completely different game from what SE tries to create. What gets me frustrated is when people expect certain game mechanics from WoW to carry over into SE games because they believe WoW has set some magical standard for MMO's. Its like taking a bite out of an apple and an orange and then expecting them to taste the same.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 7:20pm by hungerforce
#36 Sep 13 2010 at 5:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think it's pretty complicated.
We (FFXI ZAM) kinda got WoW trolled for a bit years ago. Then XI players started losing LS mates and friends to WoW, and some of those people would come back and try to recruit us via WoW vs XI arguments. It made for bad feelings. Most of us being at least some level of FF fans made for an advesarial environment on the issue, as you can imagine.
I can only assume some of those feelings linger about to this day.
I tried WoW, wasn't my thing, but I wouldn't call it bad. Different yes, but not bad. I was used to the party dependant, people depending on each other part of XI, and that seemed to be missing in WoW. I'm sure that same thing is what draws others to it. Neither is the right way or wrong way to make an MMO, and I'm glad both are around to serve both types of MMO gamers.
They are two very different games, and I really don't think we need to dive back into the FF vs WoW pool this time around. Whichever you enjoy, play that one. But neither is going to turn into the other to accomodate everyone, so don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.
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#37 Sep 13 2010 at 5:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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WoW changed the genre. If you don't like the change it made (which is likely if you are playing another game) then you express your dislike for it when people try to bring it into a comparision.

Personally, i find the hate to be overplayed at this point.

My first mmo was ffxi (though you could probably classify pso or stickmud as an mmo)... and as i have grown older i have appreciated the developement mmo's have taken. Does the sense of accomplishment just not... well seem to last or have that same "woot!" effect? Certainly. But i think that at 30 years old, i should not be relying on deriving any sense of accomplishment from a game anymore, rather i think i should just be having fun.
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#38 Sep 13 2010 at 5:42 PM Rating: Good
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First post here. Hiya! xD

Well, I'm a 5 year veteran WoW player. I never played FFXIV, though I am 35 years old and have been playing FF games since FF1 on the nes. I've always been a huge FF fan. I just love the FF universe!
That being said, I think it's clear that FFXIV could learn a thing or 2 from Blizzard about how to make an MMO.

WoW plays about 10x as fast. You click things and stuff happens.. immediately.
The menus are easy to navigate. Buying/selling at a vendor as easy as right clicking.
Equipping a diff weapon takes no more than 2 clicks.

Navigating the FFXIV menus is a mini game in itself, and not a fun one.
I'm enjoying the FFXIV beta thus far, but this game is plagued with problems.

I used to be a QA tester for a major game producer/publisher.
When a game is this close to release and the beta still as messed up as this game is, that tells me they're in trouble.
It should be WAY more polished at this point. These can't be release candidate builds?!

I'll go head and say it, SE should have made FFXIV play very much like wow but with it's own personality.
Keep the class system. Keep the leves. Keep the crafting mini games. Keep all the cool and different things that set FFXIV so far apart from WoW. But make it faster.
Why do I have to navigate through 4 or 5 menus just to swap to my pickaxe so I can mine?

Wow has come close to perfecting the successful mmo formula as far as interface/ui.

FFXIV + a fast, intuitive, player friendly, WoW-ish ui/interface would be totally awesome and might give WoW a run for it's money. But from my point of view SE seems to have little clue what they are doing.
The game is beautiful, has so many great ideas, but plays like sh*t. : /

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 7:45pm by rotny
#39 Sep 13 2010 at 5:46 PM Rating: Decent
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i just hate HOW they always comparing everything to WOW.. it get tired and annoying quick

look at Aion chat the lunch weekend.. it was full of "im a lvl80 XXXXX with XXXX armor in WOW so STFU" i really hope FFXIV doesnt turn like that.


but it will most liky be "im lvl80 XXX/XXX/XXX/XXX" or i have "a maat cap" or "my linkshell beat AV a million time" lol
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#40 Sep 13 2010 at 6:12 PM Rating: Excellent
Many feedback threads are getting flamed to ****, with no mention of WoW.
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#41 Sep 13 2010 at 6:31 PM Rating: Good
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What is this WoW you speak of? Never heard of it. Next!
#42 Sep 13 2010 at 6:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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I wondered more or less the same thing in an unrelated thread so I'll just quote that first.

Quote:
I simply do not understand the aversion to referencing other games when discussing aspects of FFXIV. Combat is boring/limitations are unfair/graphics are good/UI is bad as opposed to...what? There's no point in discussing those topics as if they exist in a void (or only in FFXIV), when the next logical step is to propose an alternative (if you want to be productive rather than just complain). And how convenient, in our real world (read: not our hypothetical void) there are some alternatives/variations already on the market. At that point you can either reference one of those or come up with something different altogether. Neither one of those options is inherently better than the other in my opinion, and both are more productive than drawing from FFXIV alone. Whether you understand it or not, those observations are all comparitive statements (you have to have an idea of what good would be in order to call something bad), and making comparisons to what already exists is far from irrelevant -- it's the most logical place to start.


But yeah, I don't understand the hatred. It seems absolutely pointless. I've played both games and enjoyed them both for different reasons.

FFXI came first for me, and I loved the more "realistic" graphics, the fact that I could stick with one character and specialize in every job (and share gear between those jobs), the sense of community and teamwork throughout the entire game (not just at endgame). I liked that the typical system of obtaining gear was on a more "guaranteed" basis (although, yes, this was something determined by the community and not by the game itself) like a points system rather than random rolling. If I put in my time I knew I would get my payoff so long as I budgeted my points. (I understand that some guilds operated under similar systems in WoW, but it didn't seem nearly as prevalent as it was in FFXI. In WoW I got every last piece of endgame gear by getting lucky on rolls.)

After that I played WoW for a year or so and loved the ease and freedom of leveling at my own pace, and the "instant gratification" feeling of quests giving me very usable pieces of gear (at least for EXP purposes). What I really loved was the seemingly higher complexity (over FFXI) of endgame bosses (assuming you were fighting them at the intended equipment level). They seemed to take more brainpower. If the limit is 10 people, in most cases you need 10 people who all know exactly what they are doing and are paying attention. Not that people were forgiving of absolute failures in FFXI, but in WoW the game itself really seemed to be unforgiving of ignorance. Some people may not like that, but I love strategy and I know how to do my part in one, so I loved it.

Neither game got EVERYTHING right (for me) that the other did not. It was give and take.
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#43 Sep 13 2010 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
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.....Only reason FFXIV is harder is because of its horrible controls/game mechanics.














SORRY I HAD TO SAY IT.
#44 Sep 13 2010 at 7:18 PM Rating: Excellent
I don't want to get heavily involved in this discussion because it's friggin' old, but I just popped in to say this:

There's gross stupidity on both sides of the fence. The difference is, the WoW community doesn't try to deny it.

That is all.
#45 Sep 13 2010 at 7:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I don't want to get heavily involved in this discussion because it's friggin' old, but I just popped in to say this:

There's gross stupidity on both sides of the fence. The difference is, the WoW community doesn't try to deny it.

That is all.


Actually, I am meaby contradicting myself from my above post, but this one is full of win. I do agree Aurelius.
#46 Sep 13 2010 at 7:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
The graphics are getting an overhaul. I don't know if you have seen some of the screen shots coming out of Cata, but they are certainly moving forward in terms of game detail. FFXIV is still a lot more polished (graphically speaking) in a lot of ways, but Bliz is also dealing with an aging mmo with a playerbase on aging hardware and they aren't as keen as SE to throw their subscriptions to the wolves in favor of "Using modern hardware".



The graphics thing is definitely a big issue for me. I know there is hardware capable of making everything BEAUTIFUL but...not everyone has the money to afford such computers and systems at all times. Especially for a whole family. If you can afford a PS3, other gaming systems, a $2000 computer for every family member in the house that wants to play such games, a car, place to live, college, medical insurance, and got knows what else then more power to you. Not every casual player or even gamer has this. Especially if your a gamer that likes to play both consoles and computer games. Also, not everyone knows how to build their own computer or has friends that can do so, so a lot of people have those really horrible store bought computers too.


I will try not to repeat many other issues already made here so I will address something else.

It is sad WOW is bashed but sadder that some of the things WOW is bashed for, other MMOs do too. That includes things about the community. I think the elitist in DDO and the underage idiots of Mabinogi were just as bad if not worse at times than in WOW. But apparently WOW gets all the blame even though neither of those games copy WOW and its format. In fact, the community in most free to play MMOs really take the cake. One of the reasons I praise WOW as a bit more decent than some of this games is because it is pay to play. If it wasn't, it would go so far down my list it isn't even funny.

I also don't know why WOW is bashed for the good things it does that moves on to other MMOs. Is a MMO more unique and far better because the UI is horrible to manage and makes you want to run your head into a wall? No. That is just stupid. Why make something more annoying to be unique? It is like making a house with no doors and the only way to get in was through very small windows far from ground level.

Also, challenge is great but there needs to be a balance. Granted, WOW hasn't found this balance either but they keep trying to change things from time to time. It at least makes it so if you want to play a bit more casual or do not have a lot of time on your hands thanks to work, then WOW is great for you. Again though...double edge sword and it depends on your preference. Also, if one works as hard as you do in FF11 only to lose it to a hacker or...other issues, then I think that would drive someone more crazy than losing their WOW info which can be reobtained thanks to their services anyway.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 9:31pm by Icare
#47 Sep 13 2010 at 7:55 PM Rating: Good
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Its not WoW that most XI'ers have a problem with, its the clash of the two communities thats always the problem. And 9 times out of 10 its not the FF people that are closed minded. The conversation is always the same: 'I tried WoW, thought it was good but not for me. I got to level 80, did some raiding, leveled crafts etc etc etc. I just prefer FF.'. The next part is inevitable. 'Man I played XI and didnt even go past level 15. How can you play that?? Dude that game is terribad! Whats up with all the (foreigners)??'. On and on and on. I have to this day to ever meet a WoW first player that ever gave XI an honest go. Its always the opposite as a lot chose to play both.

If SE has anything on their side, its the old xi community. It truly is in a league of its own as far as online games of any kind are concerned. In fact, my biggest problem with wow was strictly the playerbase. Their is only so much 4chan combined with language out of a Bangkok brothel that I care to hear when im trying to concentrate. Anytime else? Fire away by all means. Bickering with little brother died off a decade or more ago for most. That description of the behavior on those servers is undeniable and is a fact. Perfect example: Swearing and telling graphic racist/sexual jokes over shout... Thats a good way to get isnta banned in FF and really is unbelievable to behold going over to that game.

In summary, it really isnt the game its just how the conversation is always addressed. Even if it starts out well enough the end result is inevitable.

#48 Sep 13 2010 at 7:57 PM Rating: Decent
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well seeing as how SE hates chat channels, I don't see how anyone could be flamed in game for talking about WoW. If you don't want that stuff in your chat log, take 2 steps away and you'll be out of range of that person's /shout.


you know what game has chat channels? WoW does. They work stupendously for when I want to advertise my professions.
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#49 Sep 13 2010 at 7:59 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
you know what game has chat channels? WoW does. They work stupendously for when I want to advertise my professions.


Meaby but 99.9% of the time, it's only useless, childish and immature behavior and chat.
#50 Sep 13 2010 at 8:02 PM Rating: Good
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Pat at Socksmakepeoplesexy.net brought up an intresting point about ffvii I think applies today to all the wow bashing:

http://socksmakepeoplesexy.net/index.php?a=ff07

Quote:

I don't think Final Fantasy VII is overrated. Ten years later, it's still the game every JRPG tries to be. It actually broke the genre. Final Fantasy VII is now to JRPGs what Street Fighter II is to fighting games: a standard that can't possibly be met. The successful JRPG will be the one that manages to break as much ground, sell as many copies, and stir up as much of a popular and critical tidal wave, and that's about as likely as Street Fighter IV resurrecting the American arcade scene. It's probably not going to happen.


I believe the same can be said about wow. It created a standared that can't possibly be met and people hate that a game they love or want to love gets compared to it.



Edited, Sep 13th 2010 10:26pm by Devildawgs
#51 Sep 13 2010 at 8:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Because continuing FFXI players have a lot of bitterness about watching their friends and guild mates leave FF for WoW which I think of as the main reason for the majority of the decline in the FFXI population.
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