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#52 Sep 13 2010 at 10:03 PM Rating: Good
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I want to specify that FF XI is one of the only MMOs that didn't see a decline from WOW release to counter your point. I am not saying it has 1m + subs (SE "recently" said there were 2m characters, which wouldn't be fair saying it's the amount of subs), but even if it dwell between 450k and 600k, it still survived and even expanded even after WoW came. Meanwhile you see DDO and LotRO being F2P and AoC and WAR having lower numbers (unless I am mistaken).

I personnaly just think we are just afraid that the WoW-esque childish behavior that appears in MMOs these days invade a community that, even having those kind of behavior here and there, was somewhat safe and resisted to the whole degradation of communities among MMOs.

Meaby WE are childish by wanting to protect our own little "world". But FF XI was the kind of unique MMO that nobody wanted to be corrupted and invaded by a general population of MMOs players that didn't understand it and would only see it as an extension of the other games. Meaby if I say it this way, it might be a little better (and meaby less flamming) to understand the bitterness. We ain't bitter about the whole friends-quitting-for-WoW. We are just afraid (and not just us, I'd bet the developpers as well) that invasion of a non-respectful, selfish and degraded communities plague a whole new world.

Bashing for WoW players might just be a wake up call for people incoming on FF XIV that think it is the same MMO that everything else. It is not. It is not aimed to be on top. It is aimed for the FF XI niche population. Thus we defend the vision.
#53 Sep 13 2010 at 10:08 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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MisterRandy wrote:
I want to specify that FF XI is one of the only MMOs that didn't see a decline from WOW release to counter your point. I am not saying it has 1m + subs (SE "recently" said there were 2m characters, which wouldn't be fair saying it's the amount of subs), but even if it dwell between 450k and 600k, it still survived and even expanded even after WoW came. Meanwhile you see DDO and LotRO being F2P and AoC and WAR having lower numbers (unless I am mistaken).

I personnaly just think we are just afraid that the WoW-esque childish behavior that appears in MMOs these days invade a community that, even having those kind of behavior here and there, was somewhat safe and resisted to the whole degradation of communities among MMOs.

Meaby WE are childish by wanting to protect our own little "world". But FF XI was the kind of unique MMO that nobody wanted to be corrupted and invaded by a general population of MMOs players that didn't understand it and would only see it as an extension of the other games. Meaby if I say it this way, it might be a little better (and meaby less flamming) to understand the bitterness. We ain't bitter about the whole friends-quitting-for-WoW. We are just afraid (and not just us, I'd bet the developpers as well) that invasion of a non-respectful, selfish and degraded communities plague a whole new world.

Bashing for WoW players might just be a wake up call for people incoming on FF XIV that think it is the same MMO that everything else. It is not. It is not aimed to be on top. It is aimed for the FF XI niche population. Thus we defend the vision.
When it comes to a UI, WoW beat the **** out of FFXI up and down. Same now applies for FFXIV. Face the facts, it's a popular MMO in part because the design of the game itself is really solid. If SE could harness that quality but steer the gameplay in their own direction with their twist on MMO interaction, they would have a beast of a game.
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#54 Sep 13 2010 at 10:11 PM Rating: Excellent
KingRaul wrote:
Its not WoW that most XI'ers have a problem with, its the clash of the two communities thats always the problem. And 9 times out of 10 its not the FF people that are closed minded. The conversation is always the same: 'I tried WoW, thought it was good but not for me. I got to level 80, did some raiding, leveled crafts etc etc etc. I just prefer FF.'. The next part is inevitable. 'Man I played XI and didnt even go past level 15. How can you play that?? Dude that game is terribad! Whats up with all the (foreigners)??'.


Actually, the history on these forums is the exact opposite. People talk about XI all the time here and if anyone offers a dissenting point of view, the response is almost always, "go back to WoW then." It doesn't matter that XI players themselves ***** about the game incessantly on the XI boards here...they get mightily defensive if they know the person offering a critique of XI played WoW, even if that person also spent several years playing XI.

I used to play a little game with people here just to try to keep myself sane amidst the fanboi-ism. I would bring up the millions of potential subscribers SE could tap for XIV in order to live up to when they first announced XIV...that they originally conceived XIV as part of an idea to make "the best Final Fantasy title to date." I wouldn't say the source of those millions of potential subscribers. I would just mention millions. You'd be hard pressed to find a thread where I did that that didn't involve a handful of people coming back to me talking about how they didn't want a WoW clone and Blizzard sucks and SE shouldn't even try to compete with them because WoW is bad and it only appeals to so many people because it's easy and yadda yadda yadda.

And the funny part? By the "milliions" of potential subscribers I mentioned, I wasn't referring to WoW at all. I was referring to the 20 million copies of FFVII that were sold world-wide as a reference to the potential fan base SE had installed (albeit a long time ago) with the idea in mind that if XIV could top that in terms of story and playability, SE would have a real winner.

So you can pretend it's always the WoW people here stirring up ****, but if you go back through enough threads you'll realize that it's been mostly the WoW players that have beaten out of these forums on the end of an FFXI fanboi stick. And if you don't believe me, don't bother arguing...start reading.
#55 Sep 13 2010 at 10:12 PM Rating: Good
Honestly for me its because a good portion of the player base is like those in the following post:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=26726037172&sid=1

Theres reasonable people posting in this thread along with a good share off ********. Now this is just the forum goers who represent a small portion of the actual player base. I didn't hate WoW till about the beginning of Wrath and the changes it brought. **** I was an avid WoW player for years before they seriously started catering to the masses. It was a good game for its time, but now its a former shadow of itself despite its millions of subscribers. The breaking point for me was the introduction of ToC (Glorified PVE arena for those non WoW players) and the fact that the majority of the guild I ran decided to skip out on finishing Ulduar for easy ToC loot. Now I'm old school WoW raider and favored the progression of its time, where you needed gear from raid A to attempt raid B and so forth. Wrath brought badge gear that allowed you to skip content, a big no no in my eyes.

But the past is in the past and I left that game, played Aion for a few months before dropping that to take an mmo sabbatical and focused on real life and the single player games I had been neglecting. In the end, I don't hate WoW the game, I hate the WoW player base and all the crap they brought with them.
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#56 Sep 13 2010 at 10:14 PM Rating: Decent
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My gut feeling that this thread was intended to troll.
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#57 Sep 13 2010 at 10:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
When it comes to a UI, WoW beat the **** out of FFXI up and down. Same now applies for FFXIV. Face the facts, it's a popular MMO in part because the design of the game itself is really solid. If SE could harness that quality but steer the gameplay in their own direction with their twist on MMO interaction, they would have a beast of a game.


No, I do agree WoW has it strong point, like the UI and the tutorial/easy-to-learn interface and gameplay. I just wanted to point out that one of his weakness, it's comunities, could come and plague a more "stable" and mature one.

But yeah you're right, I do think SE could have made things a little bit easier and better for the gameplay as a whole.

Going to bed now, gonna answer back in the morning. You guys should check out the Pre-Release Event in Ebisu Garden that ZAM covers during the night (NA). Meaby some lights will be seen in the questions we have.
#58 Sep 13 2010 at 10:18 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
In the end, I don't hate WoW the game, I hate the WoW player base and all the crap they brought with them.


This. This is what I am trying to illustrated as a generalisation and what people are afraid of.

Edited, Sep 14th 2010 12:19am by MisterRandy
#59 Sep 13 2010 at 10:27 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
When it comes to a UI, WoW beat the **** out of FFXI up and down. Same now applies for FFXIV. Face the facts, it's a popular MMO in part because the design of the game itself is really solid. If SE could harness that quality but steer the gameplay in their own direction with their twist on MMO interaction, they would have a beast of a game.


That and never make another auto-banning program based on overly strict rules that require you to not even participate and basic aspects of game play that was put into the game in the first place. I shouldn't have to question myself when I play an MMO if just the way I move around is a bad idea. I do admit, FFXI has been one of the few MMOs to make an attempt to get rid of the RMT activities other than slowly banning the accounts after reports one by one and no results shown, but it comes at way too high of a price. Not only for FFXI but for FFXIV as well with the complains of a lack of Auction House.

In fact, the only reason I ever left FFXI the first two times I did was because of the way I was treated by SE. It wasn't the game and it wasn't the community. It was how the company worked. (And no it wasn't just over banning. First few months I played I was not banned but still had issues with SE.) Only other gaming management company to upset me worse than SE was Nexon but they are the definition of epic fail. In fact....I find it funny no one makes fun of Maple Story too OF ALL THINGS! (Though my beef came from Mabinogi)

This may not seem like a big reason to some but I like to be treated like a valued customer. If I am not or if the management treats me like a joke (I'm looking at you Nexon of America) then it can very well ruin all respect I have for the game as a whole. Give Blizzard this much credit, they have at least tried to invest their money in a decent staff. Not perfect but decent.
#60 Sep 13 2010 at 10:33 PM Rating: Excellent
MisterRandy wrote:
Quote:
In the end, I don't hate WoW the game, I hate the WoW player base and all the crap they brought with them.


This. This is what I am trying to illustrated as a generalisation and what people are afraid of.


Yes, it's a generalization. And if people are afraid of it, they need to be grown ups about it and try to be a little more open minded. I've been waiting to tell this story, because it's very appropriate to this type of conversation.

I was in Ul'dah the other day, standing next to the retainer bell in the inn. Fairly crowded place with people milling about the guildleve NPCs and what not. All of a sudden this guy starts going on a lengthy tirade about how XIV is stupid and the UI is crap and the lag is horrible and it's too easy and blah blah blah blah. All in /shout. I'm not one to get uptight about people conversing in shout...I mentioned in a previous thread that as far as its impact on me, it's just a different text color in my log. But at the same time...it's /shout spam. And this guy would just not shut up, so I commented (in /say) that shout spam ranting about the game you're currently still logged into and playing is cruise control for cool. His response?

"go back to WoW then."

He didn't know the first thing about me, what MMOs I had played, or any of that. But that was his retort as a member of the fine, upstanding XI expat community. And that wasn't all. He went on to tell me to "go lose some weight nerd lol" and then stood in front of me spamming /dance over and over again. Was I surprised? **** no...because I played XI. I remember the Lower Jeuno/Whitegate shout spam idiocy. But to hear you guys talk of it, that sort of thing never happened. You're all a bunch of angels, the lot of you.

It goes back to my previous statement: there's gross stupidity in both games. It's just the WoW community doesn't try to deny it.

Edit to add:

Quote:
Meaby WE are childish by wanting to protect our own little "world". But FF XI was the kind of unique MMO that nobody wanted to be corrupted and invaded by a general population of MMOs players that didn't understand it and would only see it as an extension of the other games. Meaby if I say it this way, it might be a little better (and meaby less flamming) to understand the bitterness. We ain't bitter about the whole friends-quitting-for-WoW. We are just afraid (and not just us, I'd bet the developpers as well) that invasion of a non-respectful, selfish and degraded communities plague a whole new world.


XI didn't need to worry about being corrupted by players from other MMOs. They did a fine job of corrupting themselves. XI had the most backwards, corrupt, and despicable endgame community of any MMO I've played, hands down. But I'm not going to generalize that as all XI players who had an interest in endgame. I'm just saying that XI has its own problems and they've got no business worrying about what players from other games might bring to the table. For all the horrible, childish, evil nonsense other MMO gamers bring, XI can match it. I just think it's a shame you guys are so uptight about the bad that you're altogether too unwilling to focus on the good those players with other/cross MMO experience can bring to XIV.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 10:07pm by Aurelius
#61 Sep 13 2010 at 10:37 PM Rating: Good
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Your story just made my day. Thank you! XD

Idiots are around no matter what MMO you play. Heck, they are everywhere in real life. You can't avoid them. They will always be there and is something a part of life that you have to try and learn to deal with. Well...to an extent.
#62 Sep 13 2010 at 11:03 PM Rating: Decent
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BRizzl3 wrote:
Quote:
Subtly correcting people when they say toon or call a DD a DPS, making jokes about "jumping".(All in good fun)


Calling a DD a DPS is the same thing. If you say you need DD for a group, it's the same as saying you need DPS. You mean you need damage. Don't get all semantical either, I know one is per second and one is just damage, but people will understand either.

I still have one minor quibble about that, however... Calling a person a DD is grammatically correct: They are a "damage dealer". Calling a person a DPS (a "damage per second") doesn't make grammatical sense. I look at acronyms and descramble them, if you will, which is why whenever I utilize them I must use them properly in a sentence. If I see a sentence that doesn't follow the proper structure, it makes me stop and think.

Also, don't forget the preface of "a" when referring to a character type. They're a damage dealer. Trying to say that "we need DD for the group" is absolutely horrid.
#63 Sep 13 2010 at 11:07 PM Rating: Excellent
Generalization it may be, but for my time in WoW, I've met more asses than I have decent people, more so as the expansions progressed. Could be due to a larger population, could be the fact that a bad reputation could be removed with a simple server/name change at the cost of around 25 bucks. Sure there was asses in XI as well, same as in real life but in a close knit community be it town or a server, reputation does indeed matter so people were careful how they treated others. Every ethnicity/game has its share of asses, but there are still decent people out there. Its just with internet anonymity more people do crap they wouldn't dare to do irl.
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#64 Sep 13 2010 at 11:11 PM Rating: Excellent
OniElvaan the Eccentric wrote:
Generalization it may be, but for my time in WoW, I've met more asses than I have decent people, more so as the expansions progressed. Could be due to a larger population, could be the fact that a bad reputation could be removed with a simple server/name change at the cost of around 25 bucks. Sure there was asses in XI as well, same as in real life but in a close knit community be it town or a server, reputation does indeed matter so people were careful how they treated others. Every ethnicity/game has its share of asses, but there are still decent people out there. Its just with internet anonymity more people do crap they wouldn't dare to do irl.


You forget the audience part of John Gabriel's Greater Internet @#%^wad Theory. In XI, the audience was limited to your /shout radius. There were no full zone chat channels that I recall, much less multi-zone chat channels (like WoW's trade chat). I am 100% positive that if XI had offered those sorts of features, you wouldn't have been able to tell the difference between the community of the two games upon logging into a city. That's a function of the game features, not the players. I ran into a great many more reasonable people in WoW than idiots, but because it was so easy for 2-3 morons to dominate things like the trade channel and local city chat, perceptions can end up a bit skewed.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 10:12pm by Aurelius
#65 Sep 13 2010 at 11:28 PM Rating: Excellent
I'm not even talking about the chat channels. Trade or general chat got you either ignore the people or leave the channel. I'm talking people in pug for a 5 man or a pug raid. I left the game before the lfd tool was implemented so I didn't get to experience those wonderful people. I've dealt with people who seemed incapable of taking some sound advice about gearing/chants/gems to people who couldn't remember simple directions. Thaddius in Naxx was a fight that drove me nuts when it came to pugs, more so than Patchwork. How hard is it to forget left side negative, right side positive(even had a guild member come up with a song and dance routine for it...), and for the love of god go around instead of through him when a polarity change happens. But people still didn't listen. Or how about the people in a heroic that decide to go balls to the wall on a pull before it even reaches the tank, and this was the beginning of the expansion before people had the gear that could drop a mob in seconds before it ate your face. Also body pulling, breaking ccs, etc. I dealt with crap from a single server base, I truly feel sorry for the tanks and healers still in the game working the lfd system.
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#66 Sep 13 2010 at 11:46 PM Rating: Excellent
OniElvaan the Eccentric wrote:
I'm not even talking about the chat channels. Trade or general chat got you either ignore the people or leave the channel. I'm talking people in pug for a 5 man or a pug raid. I left the game before the lfd tool was implemented so I didn't get to experience those wonderful people. I've dealt with people who seemed incapable of taking some sound advice about gearing/chants/gems to people who couldn't remember simple directions. Thaddius in Naxx was a fight that drove me nuts when it came to pugs, more so than Patchwork. How hard is it to forget left side negative, right side positive(even had a guild member come up with a song and dance routine for it...), and for the love of god go around instead of through him when a polarity change happens. But people still didn't listen. Or how about the people in a heroic that decide to go balls to the wall on a pull before it even reaches the tank, and this was the beginning of the expansion before people had the gear that could drop a mob in seconds before it ate your face. Also body pulling, breaking ccs, etc. I dealt with crap from a single server base, I truly feel sorry for the tanks and healers still in the game working the lfd system.


And if you weren't forced to group for everything worthwhile after level 20 for the longest time in XI, do you not think it would have been the same? Look at what's happening with groups in the open beta now. People can do an awful lot of things solo, but throw them into a group and they're bloody useless. And they don't have to try to get better because if the group sucks or they **** people off they can just go solo. No big deal. Sound familiar? (In fairness, people are pretty level headed in the OB right now because I think everyone knows that most folks are still learning. Don't expect it to last, however.) In XI, for a lot of people there was a compulsion to be on their best behavior because the game required it...try not to **** off too many people because the guy you just beaked off to might end up being the only person leading a party that you might want to join later on. Again, a function of the game, and the community responded as one might expect them to.

There was still elitism in XI. There was still rampant badism. Around the time of NA release and through most of CoP, you started grouping at around level 12. You could get very slow xp solo for a little bit longer, but by level 12 the starter zones were dried up for xp and then it was group or grind and claw for every xp point. Think about it. From level 12 onwards it was group, group, group. And if you were bored with grouping, you crafted, or you farmed, or you started working on another lowbie job. But if you wanted to see knew things and continue to advance your main job, a-grouping you would go. And still, come the 40s, when people had had dozens upon dozens of hours worth of 6-man group experience, folks were very often clueless. They were inattentive. They were impatient. They were mouth. They were rude. Not all of them, of course, but unless you grouped exclusively with LS mates and other friends from in game, you saw the same BS behavior in XI that you saw in WoW.

You mentioned PUG raids. You know how many times I entered Dynamis despite being 1.5 years at the level cap before I stopped playing? 3. And I couldn't stand it. The gross stupidity was overwhelming. Every group I entered Dynamis with was full of people who hadn't been there before, so you account for a learning curve. What you don't account for is people ignoring simple instructions. But they did. Over, and over, and over again. Wipe after wipe after wipe. Not much different from a PUG raid in WoW.

Try to be a little more realistic and objective please.
#67 Sep 14 2010 at 12:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Deila wrote:
BRizzl3 wrote:
Quote:
Subtly correcting people when they say toon or call a DD a DPS, making jokes about "jumping".(All in good fun)


Calling a DD a DPS is the same thing. If you say you need DD for a group, it's the same as saying you need DPS. You mean you need damage. Don't get all semantical either, I know one is per second and one is just damage, but people will understand either.

I still have one minor quibble about that, however... Calling a person a DD is grammatically correct: They are a "damage dealer". Calling a person a DPS (a "damage per second") doesn't make grammatical sense.


Get used to it - that's the way acronyms and initialisms work in English.

It no less logical or sensical than performing surgery with a "light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation", going "self-contained underwater breathing apparatus"ing, or posting a "joint photographic experts group".

Yes, DPS is an acronym for "damage per second", but in current usage it is also a concrete noun referring to a character that focuses on damage output, and by extension from there, an ambitransitive verb referring to the act of dealing damage.

Remember, fundamentally this is slang, and slang is notorious for rapid evolution. (In fact, the pronunciation of DPS is shifting from "dee pee ess" to "deeps", via the same process that causes many people to pronounce SQL "sequel".) In this light, railing against "DPS" in favor of "DD" is like insisting that we use "square" and "hep" instead of "cool" and "uncool".



Grammar is not logic and does not follow the rules of logic (and anyone who insists otherwise is being a linguistically ignorant faux-pedant), and compounds, phrases, and acronyms are not functionally equivalent to their constituents. That is simply not the way language works.
#68 Sep 14 2010 at 12:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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OniElvaan the Eccentric wrote:
I dealt with crap from a single server base, I truly feel sorry for the tanks and healers still in the game working the lfd system.


The thing about the LFD tool is that it pulls members from your entire battlegroup, not just your server - and different servers can have very different communities. So, for example, from my experience, players from one server (which I will kindly leave unnamed) are likely to be jerks and/or idiots, while players from certain other servers are likelier to have good players.

Additionally, if you don't like someone, you can just blacklist them (they added cross-realm blacklists the same time they added the LFD tool), which works wonderfully because the LFD tool will never put you in a group with someone on your blacklist. And there's also the option to initiate a vote-to-kick, which allows random groups to evict members totally anonymously.
#69 Sep 14 2010 at 1:37 AM Rating: Good
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I should start by saying that I played WoW for around 4 years and generally had a lot of good times on it.

My fundemental issue with WoW was not a problem with vanilla WoW, it was not even a problem with the first expansion - the problem as far as I am concerned and the reason most people hate it is that it just got dumbed down so much.

In an effort to appeal to a mass audience, WoW was made playable by all but the most stupid of 12 year olds. The effect of this was that the average player was a stupid 12 year old and thus it is the community that people hate on and the game suffers insult by association.

The straws that broke the camels back for me was when they removed the need for hunters to have their pets learn new skills, and simplified magic stats to the point where on stat represented all types of magic. Many players of FFXI and FFXIV are serious RPG'ers many born out of Dungeons and Dragons 20 years ago - to these people, stats maketh the game. WoW had no stats.

So, to be a good WoW player, all you had to do was have time. To some extent, advancement in an MMO is very dependent on time but in FFXI for example, idiots were not tolerated by the community, hence most idiots left.

Unfortunately, I suspect a significant majority of FFXIV beta players came to beta from WoW - which is the cause of much of the hate for beta. People want the simple, power level, no challenge game like WoW and hate the fact that FFXIV makes you work harder. Thankfully these people will all vanish back to WoW soon.
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#70 Sep 14 2010 at 1:45 AM Rating: Good
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BastokFL wrote:
Deila wrote:
BRizzl3 wrote:
Quote:
Subtly correcting people when they say toon or call a DD a DPS, making jokes about "jumping".(All in good fun)


Calling a DD a DPS is the same thing. If you say you need DD for a group, it's the same as saying you need DPS. You mean you need damage. Don't get all semantical either, I know one is per second and one is just damage, but people will understand either.

I still have one minor quibble about that, however... Calling a person a DD is grammatically correct: They are a "damage dealer". Calling a person a DPS (a "damage per second") doesn't make grammatical sense.


Get used to it - that's the way acronyms and initialisms work in English.

It no less logical or sensical than performing surgery with a "light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation", going "self-contained underwater breathing apparatus"ing, or posting a "joint photographic experts group".

Yes, DPS is an acronym for "damage per second", but in current usage it is also a concrete noun referring to a character that focuses on damage output, and by extension from there, an ambitransitive verb referring to the act of dealing damage.

Remember, fundamentally this is slang, and slang is notorious for rapid evolution. (In fact, the pronunciation of DPS is shifting from "dee pee ess" to "deeps", via the same process that causes many people to pronounce SQL "sequel".) In this light, railing against "DPS" in favor of "DD" is like insisting that we use "square" and "hep" instead of "cool" and "uncool".



Grammar is not logic and does not follow the rules of logic (and anyone who insists otherwise is being a linguistically ignorant faux-pedant), and compounds, phrases, and acronyms are not functionally equivalent to their constituents. That is simply not the way language works.


That's the problem with slang--City speak and country speak don't jive (as it were).
#71 Sep 14 2010 at 4:47 AM Rating: Good
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To me the issue is not so much between WoW and FFXI/FFXIV but more like between the comunities themselves. What I might like/hate about the game is the impact that they have on the comunity, otherwise each game is diferent with their lore and mechanics.

In regards to reacting to forum points of view I don't so much care about a player having been a FFXI or WoW player. What gets to my nerves is when people just expect a certain mechanic to be introduced in another game just because it was present in WoW. WoW interface might be easy to most people but after playing FFXI for years it took me quite sometime to get used to WoW's UI.

And just a bit of flaming to end the post.... if WoW's UI is do good, the end all be all of MOOs UI do 99% of the player's use third party mods to have it adapted to their needs? Don't say the UI is great, just that Blizzard had the good sense of keeping it simple so third party software could be added to it.
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#72 Sep 14 2010 at 4:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hugus wrote:
And just a bit of flaming to end the post.... if WoW's UI is do good, the end all be all of MOOs UI do 99% of the player's use third party mods to have it adapted to their needs? Don't say the UI is great, just that Blizzard had the good sense of keeping it simple so third party software could be added to it.


And I'll react to the bit of flaming. :P

WoW's UI, at its basics, is still superior than what FFXIV have right now (e.g.: selling is a breeze, just click and drag, click and drag in comparison to clicking three windows just to sell one item). This is something SE should have learned from WoW, if anything.

But yes, the fact that WoW's UI has been modded over and over again does contribute to how the game feels nowadays (you are not allowed to participate in this raid until you get this and this and this mod installed!)

EDIT:

Just to note, I enjoy a lot of things about FFXIV, but the UI design and its lag (which would hopefully be solved in retail by having the UI function in the client's side instead) is my biggest gripe in the game. Having that said, whether they fix it or not, I probably would be staying in the game for a decent amount of time.

Edited, Sep 14th 2010 6:57am by MaxwellDemon
#73 Sep 14 2010 at 6:35 AM Rating: Good
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I remember one day on Fairy -- this was back in 2004 i think. There was a character named "Enola ***" spam shouting "NUKE ALL ****!!!" in the middle of Jeuno.

So my point is here, I don't care what mmo you go to, chat channels or no chat channels you're going to find immature players.

Another point to cover, if WoW is ezmode compared to FFXI then FFXI is ezmode compared to the original Everquest. If you want someone or something to blame for the dumbing down of MMORPGs you can actually thank FFXI.

I fail to see how having in-game facilities such as way-pointed maps, highlighted npcs, quest journals, and recipe books makes an MMO "easy" anyways. All it does is allow me to spend more time in game rather than on some fan site searching for an illusive piece of information. You can tie all of these wonderful utilities to an in-depth and challenging encounter and epic quest system and still appease the hard mode players (see EQ2). You can still make the lore junkies happy with games like LoTRO.

But it seems you can't make FF players happy, and after playing XI for 8 years I can understand why with all the ******** you've put up with.
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#74 Sep 14 2010 at 7:50 AM Rating: Default
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its just the troll, but the wow "fanboi" do deserver a wack in their head until they stop say Wow is "the-mother-of-everything" and i do know a 3D mmorpg that release 1 year before wow is still alive and running Lineage2, so wow is not " the-mother-of-everything"
#75 Sep 14 2010 at 8:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Shneibel wrote:
its just the troll, but the wow "fanboi" do deserver a wack in their head until they stop say Wow is "the-mother-of-everything"


Please put the strawman down. You could put an eye out with that thing.

Quote:
i do know a 3D mmorpg that release 1 year before wow is still alive and running Lineage2, so wow is not " the-mother-of-everything"


You make it sound like it's some obscure piece of trivia.



Dark Age of Camelot.
Asheron's Call.
Star Wars Galaxies.
City of Heroes.
EverQuest.
Final Fantasy XI.

These are all fully-3D MMORPGs. All of them are still active.
And every single on of them is older than WoW. In fact, two of them are over 5 years older than WoW.
#76 Sep 14 2010 at 8:52 AM Rating: Good
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Zidaga the Eccentric wrote:
I think the main problem is the bad rep of the community that WoW has, and people are affraid that its going to migrate here.


Considering the way the majority of the FFXI populace goes into a raging, foaming at the mouth fury whenever WoW is even thought about, much less mentioned, I doubt you'll have to worry about that. FF-Online's playerbase is already pretty screwed up themselves so there's not much else to fear.
#77 Sep 14 2010 at 8:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think it's just human nature to hate the top dog. You can see it in almost every aspect of our lives. I think we enjoy the competition more than the actually victory. Everyone loves to watch the under dog climbs it way to the top but once there people can't wait to see it knocked off the throne by another under dog.
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#78 Sep 14 2010 at 9:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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dyvidd wrote:
I think it's just human nature to hate the top dog. You can see it in almost every aspect of our lives. I think we enjoy the competition more than the actually victory. Everyone loves to watch the under dog climbs it way to the top but once there people can't wait to see it knocked off the throne by another under dog.


There is a reason why exploitation journalism and Papparazi are in business...
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#79 Sep 14 2010 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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I think another big factor to include with the WoW player base is its sheer size. Final Fantasy has a much smaller number in comparison...
#80 Sep 14 2010 at 12:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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This is a little off topic, but it made me laugh when I saw this today.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/hauptg/FFXIV/LichKing.png

Edited, Sep 14th 2010 2:57pm by Parsalyn
#81SQPR, Posted: Sep 14 2010 at 1:57 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Why bash WoW players?
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