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Starter "Weathered" Weapons/ToolsFollow

#1 Sep 13 2010 at 9:56 PM Rating: Good
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If these are readily buy-able from NPCs, then what is the point of being able to craft the starter Rank 1 weapons/tools that have the exact same stats (Besides cases like the 'decorated' copper scepter which takes a copper scepter and upgrades it to a higher rank weapon using a brass nugget and bronze nugget)?

Am I wrong to think that the weathered items are a temporary thing just for the sake of beta testing?

If not, then the only thing I'll ever do with any rank 1 weathered equivalents (that I can't use to upgrade it like the copper scepter) I make will go straight to the vendor.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 11:26pm by ShinoHaven
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#2 Sep 13 2010 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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While I don't know if they will still be in game on release, I'll tell you that I would buy 3 more weathered spears for my lancer as soon as I could, so I could stay out in the field and not have to worry about repairs. The newbie weapons from the vendor are unique and untradable, so I can't have more than 1 in my inventory. The way durability is in this game, I have to go back for repairs all the time, and it eats into my grind time. If I could havev 4 of those things to switch out, it would be awesome.
#3 Sep 13 2010 at 10:10 PM Rating: Good
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I suppose it's partially a replacement option for people who break their weapon and can't be assed to repair it or craft a new/better one. But at any rate, you're likely able to craft them just as another means of skilling up. Or maybe their stats will be adjusted down the line so it doesn't feel so pointless.
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#4 Sep 13 2010 at 10:14 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I would be fine with it if the crafted versions were slightly better. Or if I was able to upgrade all of them like I can the copper scepter.
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#5 Sep 13 2010 at 10:16 PM Rating: Decent
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are you sure the stats are the same?
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#6 Sep 13 2010 at 10:25 PM Rating: Good
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Crafted Goldsmith's tool - http://ffxiv.yg.com/item/bronze-chaser-hammer?id=6040002
Weathered Goldsmith's tool - http://ffxiv.yg.com/item/weathered-chaser-hammer?id=6040001

Crafted Lancer's weapon - http://ffxiv.yg.com/item/bronze-spear?id=4080202
Weathered Lancer's weapon - http://ffxiv.yg.com/item/weathered-spear?id=4080201

If there are some that are different from each other, I haven't seen any of those yet. Just the ones I've seen and compared are the ones that I know are the same.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 11:29pm by ShinoHaven
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#7 Sep 13 2010 at 10:35 PM Rating: Good
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ShinoHaven wrote:

Crafted Lancer's weapon - http://ffxiv.yg.com/item/bronze-spear?id=4080202
Weathered Lancer's weapon - http://ffxiv.yg.com/item/weathered-spear?id=4080201

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 11:29pm by ShinoHaven


I could be wrong, but I think that bronze spear was a throwing weapon instead of a main hand one (I bought it in Limsa). I was really displeased when I traveled to the other side of the world and found that out while trying to equip it.
#8 Sep 13 2010 at 10:50 PM Rating: Good
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VelvetJ wrote:
I could be wrong, but I think that bronze spear was a throwing weapon instead of a main hand one (I bought it in Limsa). I was really displeased when I traveled to the other side of the world and found that out while trying to equip it.


It has to say "throwing spear" beside it. Like this: http://ffxiv.yg.com/item/bronze-javelin?id=3910301
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#9 Sep 13 2010 at 10:50 PM Rating: Decent
One benefit to the crafted stuff is that as the game progresses, you could probably make them cheaper than the NPC sells them for. It's also possible that SE will start with the weapons available from NPCs and then remove them after a certain amount of time once the playerbase has established itself. Right now there are very few people crafting weapons and armor of any kind (relatively speaking). I've seen a lot more people making bronze daggers and the like lately, but even a few days ago it was a rarity. You have to be pretty dedicated to a crafting class right now to be able to make any of that stuff reliably. Remember also that XI was very similar. I remember there was an NPC vendor in Bastok Markets that sells brass/bronze armor and numerous low level weapons. People used to buy the armor from there and then go try to flog it on the AH for quick and easy profit because so few people knew he was even there.

Also, HQ weapons and armor apparently have higher durability, so while their may not be much market for the bottom tier crafted weapons of the NQ variety, people taking up a new class several months down the line might prefer the HQ versions because they'll be more common than they are now, people will have the gil, and it will save them on repairs.
#10 Sep 13 2010 at 10:57 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
One benefit to the crafted stuff is that as the game progresses, you could probably make them cheaper than the NPC sells them for.


Not all the time, because I'm making Bronze Needles to level Blacksmith and it costs 600 gil for the bronze nugget plus the needed shards, while the Rusty Needle you can get from the NPC is 540 gil.

Quote:
It's also possible that SE will start with the weapons available from NPCs and then remove them after a certain amount of time once the playerbase has established itself.


That would make sense.

Quote:
Also, HQ weapons and armor apparently have higher durability, so while their may not be much market for the bottom tier crafted weapons of the NQ variety, people taking up a new class several months down the line might prefer the HQ versions because they'll be more common than they are now, people will have the gil, and it will save them on repairs.


Yeah, I forgot about the HQ versions.
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#11 Sep 13 2010 at 11:01 PM Rating: Decent
ShinoHaven wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
One benefit to the crafted stuff is that as the game progresses, you could probably make them cheaper than the NPC sells them for.


Not all the time, because I'm making Bronze Needles to level Blacksmith and it costs 600 gil for the bronze nugget plus the needed shards, while the Rusty Needle you can get from the NPC is 540 gil.


You're looking at it from the point of view of NPC vendor value. I'm looking at it from the point of view of dozens of stacks of ore on my retainer that I can't use right now because I don't have the skill (or the Fire Crystals) to convert them to nuggets. And by the time I can convert them to nuggets safely and reliably (without wasting my hard-earned crystals on failed attempts), I won't be skilling up on things that involve copper/bronze components. Unless SE dramatically reduces the drop rate of ore for retail, there's going to be a mighty surplus of nuggets a month or two after launch, at which point supply will likely outstrip demand and the player driven price will probably be a fair bit lower than the NPC vendor price.
#12 Sep 13 2010 at 11:06 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
You're looking at it from the point of view of NPC vendor value. I'm looking at it from the point of view of dozens of stacks of ore on my retainer that I can't use right now because I don't have the skill (or the Fire Crystals) to convert them to nuggets. And by the time I can convert them to nuggets safely and reliably (without wasting my hard-earned crystals on failed attempts), I won't be skilling up on things that involve copper/bronze components. Unless SE dramatically reduces the drop rate of ore for retail, there's going to be a mighty surplus of nuggets a month or two after launch, at which point supply will likely outstrip demand and the player driven price will probably be a fair bit lower than the NPC vendor price.


Oh, ok. Well, I don't know what will happen in the future, I'm just thinking about it from the info that I have now, but you're probably going to be right about that.

Edited, Sep 14th 2010 12:11am by ShinoHaven
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#13 Sep 13 2010 at 11:18 PM Rating: Decent
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@Verax606: Have you ever considered the "Unique" tag the Weathered equipment has? You CAN NOT at any time carry more than ONE Weathered of same type.

There goes your answer, you can carry 10 Bronze Spear but you can only carry 1 Weathered Spear. It makes some sense now? Besides the Bronze Spear can get +1/+2/+3 but the Weathered won't.
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#14 Sep 13 2010 at 11:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
@Verax606: Have you ever considered the "Unique" tag the Weathered equipment has? You CAN NOT at any time carry more than ONE Weathered of same type.

There goes your answer, you can carry 10 Bronze Spear but you can only carry 1 Weathered Spear. It makes some sense now? Besides the Bronze Spear can get +1/+2/+3 but the Weathered won't.


Yup, exactly. The ones from the vendor are unique so I can't carry more than one. The crafted ones are not, so I would buy 3 of them, thereby giving the crafted ones a point to be in the game, even if they were the same stats. That was the point of my post. makes some sense now?
#15 Sep 13 2010 at 11:25 PM Rating: Decent
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OK sorry I misread your post somehow. But then there's another reason with the +1/+2/+3 the Bronze Spear has.
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#16 Sep 13 2010 at 11:27 PM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
OK sorry I misread your post somehow. But then there's another reason with the +1/+2/+3 the Bronze Spear has.


Yeah, sadly though, for levelling your class level, you want to equip the worst weapon possible. So having a good crafted weapon at this point is only usefull if you are working exclusively on your physical level. :( Hopefully SE changes that soon.
#17 Sep 14 2010 at 5:18 AM Rating: Good
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Verax606 wrote:
Khornette wrote:
OK sorry I misread your post somehow. But then there's another reason with the +1/+2/+3 the Bronze Spear has.


Yeah, sadly though, for levelling your class level, you want to equip the worst weapon possible. So having a good crafted weapon at this point is only usefull if you are working exclusively on your physical level. :( Hopefully SE changes that soon.


Yeah I am sure that when you are fighting level 30 mobs you'll want a level 1 weapon. If you die you don't get skill ups.
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#18 Sep 14 2010 at 5:29 AM Rating: Decent
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I would rather have a weapon that has high Accuracy more than anything else. Plus I don't think having a nicely crafted weapon is that bad because I find that the problem most people in Open Beta have in advancing in Rank is NOT having a good weapon to hit monsters appropriate for their level. I have been pumping DEX a lot more than STR, and VIT is my least priority because I usually have a Conjurer on my back, but I still miss at an insanely high rate on orange mobs. OK not insanely high, but I wish it's not that high. I'm rank 16 LNC and I blame my Weathered Spear.

By the way, anyone can explain how exactly the +1/+2/+3 affect the items? I have one or two +1 but the stat is exactly the same as normal ones, all it has is this silver star besides the stat.
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#19 Sep 14 2010 at 5:41 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah I've made some +1 and +2 stuff - it is all the same stats always with 1 or 2 stars. I am not sure if a star just equals "adding 1 more point" to the stat in question or whatever. It is things like these I wish that SE would just outright explain.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#20 Sep 14 2010 at 5:47 AM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
By the way, anyone can explain how exactly the +1/+2/+3 affect the items? I have one or two +1 but the stat is exactly the same as normal ones, all it has is this silver star besides the stat.


The only apparent difference is HQ items have higher durability.
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#21 Sep 14 2010 at 6:20 AM Rating: Good
I think the cheap starter weapons are there because every new player from here on out will need an easy to acquire weapon to start with (other than their starter class of course).
If a player in the future starts the game with relatively no knowledge of it aside from the fact that it's a MMORPG or a FF game or whatever, they need to go to a weapon shop and grab something cheap and useful for those first levels. This is a basic that should never change.

Said new players aren't going to necessarily know about the crafting mandates or care at that moment where the market wards or retainer options are, they're just going to buy a weapon from an NPC and whack some stuff. They will find out later whether their next weapons can only be bought from player crafters, if that is the case.
Besides, maybe the crafted weathered starter weapons will be an ingredient in a better, higher level weapon. This happens from time to time.
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#22 Sep 14 2010 at 6:21 AM Rating: Good
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They are available for these reasons.

1) They are on an NPC so that one day when the crafters get out of the low levels and are no longer making low level items new players can still get weapons.

2) They are on an NPC so that there as a hard cap for pricing so that crafters can't prevent players from starting new jobs by over pricing them or flat out refusing to make them.

3) the level 1 crafted items are generally (in ffxi anyway) a point or two better than their npc counter part.

4) They are craftable because as people level their second, third, etc jobs people will buy them for the extra point or two of damage. Which could equate to an 10 minutes, an hour, etc of low level solo grind time.


I didn't even take into account making HQ gear boosting the stats up another point or two of damage.

Edited, Sep 14th 2010 7:22am by windexy

Edited, Sep 14th 2010 7:23am by windexy
#23 Sep 14 2010 at 7:39 AM Rating: Decent
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The star bonuses don't appear on the item's stats. You do see them when you equip the item. The bonuses for craft weapons are nice for skilling up especially when they are on control.
#24 Sep 14 2010 at 7:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
The stat bonuses don't appear on the item's stats. You do see them when you equip the item. The bonuses for craft weapons are nice for skilling up especially when they are on control.

Great, invisible stats on items already? Let's hope they just haven't got around to updating the item description.
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#25 Sep 14 2010 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
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ShinoHaven wrote:
Crafted Goldsmith's tool - http://ffxiv.yg.com/item/bronze-chaser-hammer?id=6040002
Weathered Goldsmith's tool - http://ffxiv.yg.com/item/weathered-chaser-hammer?id=6040001

Crafted Lancer's weapon - http://ffxiv.yg.com/item/bronze-spear?id=4080202
Weathered Lancer's weapon - http://ffxiv.yg.com/item/weathered-spear?id=4080201

If there are some that are different from each other, I haven't seen any of those yet. Just the ones I've seen and compared are the ones that I know are the same.

Just out of curiosity, why aren't you using the links from the ZAM database?

Weathered Spear vs. Bronze Spear

This way, people don't have to leave ZAM to follow your links.
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