Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

More copy pasta, mikeb.Follow

#52 Sep 18 2010 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
bsphil wrote:
Very similar, sure. Exactly alike, no.


Real life =/= video games either.
____________________________
MUTED
#53 Sep 18 2010 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
811 posts
I should make a third thread on this subject so the same 3 people can 'copypasta' their whiny pointless drivel for a third time.
#54 Sep 18 2010 at 1:47 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
*****
12,707 posts
Next thing you know we'll have complaints about characters blinking a millisecond too quickly or slowly or blinking back to back occasionally.

Edited, Sep 18th 2010 12:47pm by Theonehio
____________________________

#55 Sep 18 2010 at 1:58 PM Rating: Default
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
SolidMack wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Very similar, sure. Exactly alike, no.
Real life =/= video games either.
Yes. These real life analogies are getting really old.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#56 Sep 18 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Next thing you know we'll have complaints about characters blinking a millisecond too quickly or slowly or blinking back to back occasionally.
See, this is what makes you a fanboy. You take a legitimate criticism of the game and dismiss it as ridiculous and unreasonable by making a hyperbolic strawman argument.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#57 Sep 18 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
12,707 posts
bsphil wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Next thing you know we'll have complaints about characters blinking a millisecond too quickly or slowly or blinking back to back occasionally.
See, this is what makes you a fanboy. You take a legitimate criticism of the game and dismiss it as ridiculous and unreasonable by making a hyperbolic strawman argument.


Only reason I dismiss it is because every game in history copy and pastes, including a lot of the award winning games even in this generation. It's just pretty hilarious that when a lot of the major issues that were complained about promised to be fixed (whether it does or not is a different story) everything suddenly shifts focus to a typical design practice.

____________________________

#58 Sep 18 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Decent
*
94 posts
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Next thing you know we'll have complaints about characters blinking a millisecond too quickly or slowly or blinking back to back occasionally.
See, this is what makes you a fanboy. You take a legitimate criticism of the game and dismiss it as ridiculous and unreasonable by making a hyperbolic strawman argument.


Only reason I dismiss it is because every game in history copy and pastes, including a lot of the award winning games even in this generation. It's just pretty hilarious that when a lot of the major issues that were complained about promised to be fixed (whether it does or not is a different story) everything suddenly shifts focus to a typical design practice.



Perfect
#59 Sep 18 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Default
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Next thing you know we'll have complaints about characters blinking a millisecond too quickly or slowly or blinking back to back occasionally.
See, this is what makes you a fanboy. You take a legitimate criticism of the game and dismiss it as ridiculous and unreasonable by making a hyperbolic strawman argument.


Only reason I dismiss it is because every game in history copy and pastes, including a lot of the award winning games even in this generation. It's just pretty hilarious that when a lot of the major issues that were complained about promised to be fixed (whether it does or not is a different story) everything suddenly shifts focus to a typical design practice.
Well when SE states they're only planning on working on fixing the main problems everyone who is complaining is complaining about after release, why bother? It's not happening no matter what right now. Plus, if people did keep talking about the UI/lag/etc then you'd just be saying that we're arguing the same topic over and over again.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#60 Sep 18 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
**
529 posts
After being back a few months now to the ZAM forums after a few years off, I am definitely noticing who the trolls are, who the people that just want to argue no matter the argument, and who have the common sense and make logical points are. I'm glad to see this forum is panning out to be just like the XI forums of the old days. I'm looking forward to XIV drama in the coming months.

On a on topic note, To those that dislike the copy/paste method SE is currently using. What can happen to make you happy? Do you want them to redesign certain parts of the map? Will you not buy the game due to the current map layouts being similar/same with copy pasting? I don't understand the real issue here. Is it just to complain or do you want something done about it?
____________________________

#61 Sep 18 2010 at 3:05 PM Rating: Decent
**
696 posts
I could make this same video about any mmo. You're jut reaching for something to QQ about now. In wow I could show you 17 of the same cave.... also beyond texturing 12 of the same road. Same road diff color. So basically this amounts to nothing.
#62 Sep 18 2010 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
Y'know I kind of have to agree, the game right now looks too similar in difference places, especially the caves most of all. Still, it's not anything that will bother me too much. But I wish a little more detail was added so it wasn't so obvious. And I'm sure alot of people noticed it before, it just wasn't until someone came out and said something that people may have really paid attention. I do recall going thru the Black Shroud and noticing how many of the streams in some areas had the exact same layouts.

Oh and since we're on the topic about going from place to place, if anyone's noticed when travel from one area to another, Thanalis (sp?) to The Black Shroud for example, it still does a "zoning" effect as we've seen in FFXI. It kind of confuses me as to why they bothered making a huge surrounding with virtually nothing to actually explore to make it seem as if you're transitioning seamlessly between two areas, yet they have to add in a loading screen going from one area to another. Even if you looked past the copy and paste (I won't use copy-n-pasta, it's just stupid.) job they did all over you still get a sense of "why explore" when there's nothing but a few generic caves scattered about with random mobs in them... Currently there's no actual reason to explore other than to possibly see a different enemy you hadn't seen before.

Edited, Sep 18th 2010 2:23pm by SamusKnight
____________________________
FINAL FANTASY XIV Roleplayer

Sair Gammonari - Hyur Midlander Male - Conjurer (Somewhat retired.)
Mihana Zhralyia - Miqo'te Seeker of the Sun Female - Archer



#63 Sep 18 2010 at 3:19 PM Rating: Decent
Tarutinkler wrote:
After being back a few months now to the ZAM forums after a few years off, I am definitely noticing who the trolls are, who the people that just want to argue no matter the argument, and who have the common sense and make logical points are. I'm glad to see this forum is panning out to be just like the XI forums of the old days. I'm looking forward to XIV drama in the coming months.

On a on topic note, To those that dislike the copy/paste method SE is currently using. What can happen to make you happy? Do you want them to redesign certain parts of the map? Will you not buy the game due to the current map layouts being similar/same with copy pasting? I don't understand the real issue here. Is it just to complain or do you want something done about it?


I don't mind the concept of copying and pasting terrain in a game. Most studios do just that to cut down on resource consumption (both platform resources and staff resources). I just think that in this particular situation, SE went a little too far with it. I mean, it's one thing to find a spot in a zone that looks identical to a spot in another zone with maybe some palette changes or other minor alterations to make it fit, or on the opposite side of the same zone, etc. etc. It's another thing where, as mikeB demonstrated, you're encountering the exact same terrain features over and over and over again one after the other, just rotated 90 degrees here and 180 degrees there.

With a retail game client anywhere from 3 to 4+ times the size of the beta client, I can't help but wonder if the terrain won't look a little different (at least to some extent) in the final release version of the game. I'm not expecting it, I'm not counting on it, I'm just saying that the retail client is going to be touting an awful lot more data than the beta.
#64 Sep 18 2010 at 3:41 PM Rating: Default
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
zoltanrs wrote:
I could make this same video about any mmo. You're jut reaching for something to QQ about now. In wow I could show you 17 of the same cave.... also beyond texturing 12 of the same road. Same road diff color. So basically this amounts to nothing.
I'd rather the game be BETTER than WoW. Just because WoW (or any other game) does it doesn't necessarily mean it's good.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#65 Sep 18 2010 at 4:38 PM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
In the next year I'm gonna see 500 identical crabs, marmots etc. I'll see 50 identical Miquote and Elezen in every town. Seeing the same rock formation a couple times every zone isn't going to bother me.
____________________________


#66 Sep 18 2010 at 4:38 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
bsphil wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Very similar, sure. Exactly alike, no.
Real life =/= video games either.
Yes. These real life analogies are getting really old.


You mean like the chaos theory someone mentioned a few posts up? it works both ways, real life analogies don't work in this case, and the game =/= real life so just because things in real life will never look the same geologically, this is a video game unfortunately for you.

bsphil wrote:
zoltanrs wrote:
I could make this same video about any mmo. You're jut reaching for something to QQ about now. In wow I could show you 17 of the same cave.... also beyond texturing 12 of the same road. Same road diff color. So basically this amounts to nothing.
I'd rather the game be BETTER than WoW. Just because WoW (or any other game) does it doesn't necessarily mean it's good.


Take a break. You've had nothing but negative things to say about the game and in the end you always say "but I want it to succeed"...truth is, no matter what they do it'll never be good enough for you.

Edited, Sep 18th 2010 6:41pm by SolidMack
____________________________
MUTED
#67 Sep 18 2010 at 4:43 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
In the next year I'm gonna see 500 identical crabs, marmots etc. I'll see 50 identical Miquote and Elezen in every town. Seeing the same rock formation a couple times every zone isn't going to bother me.


...but...but chaos theory!!!! probabilistically speaking you should be able to find one or two people in the world that look very similar to you save for aesthetics such as haircuts...how could FFXIV miss this when they designed the game?Smiley: rolleyes
____________________________
MUTED
#68 Sep 18 2010 at 4:44 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
SolidMack wrote:
bsphil wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Very similar, sure. Exactly alike, no.
Real life =/= video games either.
Yes. These real life analogies are getting really old.


You mean like the chaos theory someone mentioned a few posts up? it works both ways, real life analogies don't work in this case, and the game =/= real life so just because things in real life will never look the same geologically, this is a video game unfortunately for you.

bsphil wrote:
zoltanrs wrote:
I could make this same video about any mmo. You're jut reaching for something to QQ about now. In wow I could show you 17 of the same cave.... also beyond texturing 12 of the same road. Same road diff color. So basically this amounts to nothing.
I'd rather the game be BETTER than WoW. Just because WoW (or any other game) does it doesn't necessarily mean it's good.


Take a break. You've had nothing but negative things to say about the game and in the end you always say "but I want it to succeed"...truth is, no matter what they do it'll never be good enough for you
Well once they fix the problems I don't like about the game I'll have nothing to complain about. I don't see them ever changing the world maps though.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#69 Sep 18 2010 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
So you're gonna keep complaining, exactly my point...this is just trolling. Thing is, and I've said it twice in this topic already, neither you nor anyone else complaining even noticed copy pasting until MikeB brought it up so it wasn't even an issue; now that SE said they're fixing the issues people have been complaining about for the last 2 months, you decided to shift over to this. Take a breather man..
____________________________
MUTED
#70 Sep 18 2010 at 4:53 PM Rating: Decent
It's Just a Flesh Wound
******
22,699 posts
Quote:
What's with this 'copy pasta' thing? It's the same number of letters and there's more syllables than saying 'copy paste'. Plus 'copy pasta' makes no sense and sounds stupid. Kids these days.

Quote:
Hope you know I didn't make it up, Mike did.

Smiley: facepalm You're all slow. I bet if I made a video about ffxiv and used the term lolcat you'd suddenly think I just invented the term and that it's brand new.

On the actual topic, which we totally haven't had 3 or 4 times now, copypasta is normal in all games- they overdid it a bit though in xiv. They need to make slight modifications to all the copypasta'd areas and it would be perfectly fine; just change the texture skins or rearrange 10% of the polygons and it'll be fine. Having the same exact structure that many times in an open area is silly. At least make small changes to it.

Edited, Sep 18th 2010 6:56pm by Deadgye
____________________________
Dear people I don't like: 凸(●´―`●)凸
#71 Sep 18 2010 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
*
84 posts
This explains why I felt something was unnaturally wrong about the terrain.
____________________________
FFXI Server: Valefor Characters: Oishii and Elviss
75 Paladin 75 Samurai 43 White Mage
WoW 74 Paladin Faithseeker
#72 Sep 18 2010 at 5:15 PM Rating: Default
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Deadgye wrote:
Quote:
What's with this 'copy pasta' thing? It's the same number of letters and there's more syllables than saying 'copy paste'. Plus 'copy pasta' makes no sense and sounds stupid. Kids these days.

Quote:
Hope you know I didn't make it up, Mike did.

Smiley: facepalm You're all slow. I bet if I made a video about ffxiv and used the term lolcat you'd suddenly think I just invented the term and that it's brand new.

On the actual topic, which we totally haven't had 3 or 4 times now, copypasta is normal in all games- they overdid it a bit though in xiv. They need to make slight modifications to all the copypasta'd areas and it would be perfectly fine; just change the texture skins or rearrange 10% of the polygons and it'll be fine. Having the same exact structure that many times in an open area is silly. At least make small changes to it.
Wow, even deadgye is willing to admit that SE went overboard with the copypasta.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#73 Sep 18 2010 at 5:28 PM Rating: Default
*
106 posts
ITT: Herp derp
#74 Sep 18 2010 at 5:30 PM Rating: Decent
It's Just a Flesh Wound
******
22,699 posts
I can easily live with it the way it currently is, but it would definitely be a lot better if they just made some small changes here and there. My polygon editing/texture editing skills are very limited, but I don't think it would take too much effort to make the copypasta'd areas slightly different from each other.
____________________________
Dear people I don't like: 凸(●´―`●)凸
#75 Sep 18 2010 at 5:35 PM Rating: Default
**
339 posts
Quote:
What's with this 'copy pasta' thing? It's the same number of letters and there's more syllables than saying 'copy paste'. Plus 'copy pasta' makes no sense and sounds stupid. Kids these days.


It's a slip of the toungue in Mike's first video. The one which sparked the debate. Perhaps watching it would offer some further insight.
____________________________
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
#76 Sep 18 2010 at 5:38 PM Rating: Good
Alabazman wrote:
Quote:
What's with this 'copy pasta' thing? It's the same number of letters and there's more syllables than saying 'copy paste'. Plus 'copy pasta' makes no sense and sounds stupid. Kids these days.


It's a slip of the toungue in Mike's first video. The one which sparked the debate. Perhaps watching it would offer some further insight.

EDIT: Removed the link, noticed it contains links to other offensive stuff. If I can find a link elsewhere talking about copypasta I will add it.

Edited, Sep 18th 2010 4:49pm by SamusKnight
____________________________
FINAL FANTASY XIV Roleplayer

Sair Gammonari - Hyur Midlander Male - Conjurer (Somewhat retired.)
Mihana Zhralyia - Miqo'te Seeker of the Sun Female - Archer



#77 Sep 18 2010 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Alabazman wrote:
Quote:
What's with this 'copy pasta' thing? It's the same number of letters and there's more syllables than saying 'copy paste'. Plus 'copy pasta' makes no sense and sounds stupid. Kids these days.


It's a slip of the toungue in Mike's first video. The one which sparked the debate. Perhaps watching it would offer some further insight.
Lurk moar.

Copypasta has been a term for years now.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#78 Sep 18 2010 at 5:53 PM Rating: Good
***
3,446 posts
Deadgye wrote:
I can easily live with it the way it currently is, but it would definitely be a lot better if they just made some small changes here and there. My polygon editing/texture editing skills are very limited, but I don't think it would take too much effort to make the copypasta'd areas slightly different from each other.


Maybe sprinkle some flowers on some of the rock formations in random patterns... Add some green texturing for some mossy effects maybe... Add dodo droppings, I don't care... show effort.

@SolidMack: I love how you've decided that anyone saying anything negative about this game is trolling and can't possibly possess a logical thought. I don't like to address people directly like this, but if you're not going to actually contribute to a discussion, don't bother posting.

This isn't an issue that would make me not buy the game.

This IS very clearly demonstrating a lack of effort from the map designers and it's very disappointing to see in a Final Fantasy game

Guess what, I'm allowed to express an opinion, even if everybody doesn't agree with me. If you'd like to disagree and participate in a discussion in a civilized manner, I'll be happy to discuss the topic at hand. If all you're interested in is defending one side or the other blindly with no actual contribution to the discussion, just don't bother.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#79 Sep 18 2010 at 5:54 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Trying to state that everyone does this is moronic. They don't, and you're insulting other less lazy developers.


Question for all you copy-pasta haters.

Just how glorious are you expecting Duke Nukem Forever to be?

You know, a game that's been in development for twelve years, that has high end graphics, etc.

Are you going to ***** about a fire hydrant or stairwell looking the same in that game, cause that's about the only game I'd give that level a scrutiny too.


1. You're working with a Beta.

2. You're talking about an MMORPG.

3. You're picking arid field zones as your examples.

The repeating field sections are tolerable, MORE SO considering they're built primarily to help spread out the playerbase some when they're out grinding. (As opposed to Levequests.)

They're not perfect, yes I notice some repeats in Gridania as well (more than what the video was making.) It doesn't make the game horrible or less enjoyable for doing so, however, your false sense of 'immersion' be damned. (A week into the game you'll be trading in that "immersion" for knowledge of where the next hot loot is anyways.)

The story and cut-scenes are great, the levequests feel fun even when you repeat them. The field areas give you a since of deja vu at certain cross-sections for certain, but it contributes to the 'getting lost' feel that I actually enjoy. (Thankfully the map keeps that from being functionally hampering.)

There's MORE than enough variance in the game to satisfy your average player. Please stop depicting it as if the game is NOTHING but laziness and cheap repeats when it simply isn't.

Edited, Sep 18th 2010 7:55pm by Hyrist
#80 Sep 18 2010 at 5:58 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,446 posts
Hyrist, ****** Superhero wrote:
Quote:
Trying to state that everyone does this is moronic. They don't, and you're insulting other less lazy developers.


Question for all you copy-pasta haters.

Just how glorious are you expecting Duke Nukem Forever to be?

You know, a game that's been in development for twelve years, that has high end graphics, etc.

Are you going to ***** about a fire hydrant or stairwell looking the same in that game, cause that's about the only game I'd give that level a scrutiny too.


1. You're working with a Beta.

2. You're talking about an MMORPG.

3. You're picking arid field zones as your examples.

The repeating field sections are tolerable, MORE SO considering they're built primarily to help spread out the playerbase some when they're out grinding. (As opposed to Levequests.)

They're not perfect, yes I notice some repeats in Gridania as well (more than what the video was making.) It doesn't make the game horrible or less enjoyable for doing so, however, your false sense of 'immersion' be damned. (A week into the game you'll be trading in that "immersion" for knowledge of where the next hot loot is anyways.)

The story and cut-scenes are great, the levequests feel fun even when you repeat them. The field areas give you a since of deja vu at certain cross-sections for certain, but it contributes to the 'getting lost' feel that I actually enjoy. (Thankfully the map keeps that from being functionally hampering.)

There's MORE than enough variance in the game to satisfy your average player. Please stop depicting it as if the game is NOTHING but laziness and cheap repeats when it simply isn't.

Edited, Sep 18th 2010 7:55pm by Hyrist


I'm pretty sure every reviewer on the planet will absolutely obliterate Duke Nukem 3D if it doesn't cure at least 1 kind of cancer
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#81 Sep 18 2010 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
**
275 posts
I'll probably notice it as time goes on, though so far I've only really noticed it in the little caves around Limsa Lominsa. Yeah, it breaks the immersion, but then again so does viewing everything through that little box called a monitor. Hopefully as the game goes on, the newer zones will have less and less copy-and-paste, but it's not even close to a deal-breaker for me.

And just as an added note, do we really have to keep using "copypasta?" Really? I'm pretty sure my list of Top 3 Most Annoying Terms Ever Uttered goes something like:

1. Brangelina
2. Copypasta
3. Stranger Danger

Good GOD, just writing it burns me.
____________________________

#82 Sep 18 2010 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
**
923 posts
Certainly the game could use more variation, and I understand people are disappointed, but I wish everyone would just drop it already. It's getting a bit bandwagon up in here. If I had to list the games faults this wouldn't make it on the list, there are plenty of other glaring issues we should focus on.
#83 Sep 18 2010 at 6:44 PM Rating: Default
**
339 posts
bsphil wrote:
Alabazman wrote:
Quote:
What's with this 'copy pasta' thing? It's the same number of letters and there's more syllables than saying 'copy paste'. Plus 'copy pasta' makes no sense and sounds stupid. Kids these days.


It's a slip of the toungue in Mike's first video. The one which sparked the debate. Perhaps watching it would offer some further insight.


Lurk moar.

Copypasta has been a term for years now.


Um ok. Actually I've had my say in this matter in the last thread. Not really interested in furthering the madness. Call it what you will.

But, be an asshat moar.
____________________________
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
#84 Sep 18 2010 at 7:12 PM Rating: Default
*
66 posts
This MikeB kid sounds like a whiney *****. The game looks really good and repeat flowers an bushes doesnt take away from that.

Like this crazy daisy growing in my back yard... IT GREW IN MY FRONT YARD TOO!! WTF! GOD IS LAZY!
#85 Sep 18 2010 at 7:32 PM Rating: Decent
Hyrist, ****** Superhero wrote:
Are you going to ***** about a fire hydrant or stairwell looking the same in that game, cause that's about the only game I'd give that level a scrutiny too.


Outdoor environments aren't mass produced in factories or built to building codes.

Just sayin'.

It's a nit-picky argument that some people can't get enough of. Is it game breaking? No. Is it unreasonable that some people see a game 5 years in development and expected more? No. (Hint: PS3 limitations). (Hint v2.0: the preceding hint will warrant numerous red arrows).

The only reason these arguments carry on is because for every valid point their are 3 strawmen erected by people who lack the intellect to phrase a cogent response but feel the need to defend or denounce something strictly out of principle.

It's not going to change, and ******** about the ******** is just as counterproductive as the first wave of ********* And on, and on, and so forth.
#86 Sep 18 2010 at 8:03 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
Quote:

@SolidMack: I love how you've decided that anyone saying anything negative about this game is trolling and can't possibly possess a logical thought. I don't like to address people directly like this, but if you're not going to actually contribute to a discussion, don't bother posting.


Yes this is exactly what I said Smiley: rolleyes. I was talking about bsphil specifically, I'm sorry you decided to clump yourself under that term too...maybe its just a guilty conscious? How are you contributing any more? it seems to me unless i'm "contributing" how you want me to contribute i'm "not contributing" hence i'm bombarded with rate downs instead of people replying to my posts and telling me why they don't agree. Doesn't matter makes it easier on me when you guys have nothing good to say...all I said in response to this "copy paste" video is that its not noticeable unless you look for it, and no one noticed it before MikeB even brought it up - so now that you negative nancies have nothing to complain about you decided to start something new. Who the **** cares lol, don't play the game if this bothers you so much, I know I wouldn't, i mean **** if I have to look at the same texture a 100 times and I notice it I know it would drive me insane....all I said was that I wasn't noticing it because I wasn't looking for it, I didn't say you should agree with me or anything.
____________________________
MUTED
#87 Sep 18 2010 at 8:22 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,446 posts
Quote:
Yes this is exactly what I said Smiley: rolleyes

It is
Quote:
So you're gonna keep complaining, exactly my point...this is just trolling.


...

Quote:
I was talking about bsphil specifically, I'm sorry you decided to clump yourself under that term too...

Well...
Quote:
You mean like the chaos theory someone mentioned a few posts up?

That was me

...

Quote:
How are you contributing any more?

Well I was attempting to discuss the issue as neutrally as possible, instead I got rewarded with ratedowns and insults but no actual discussion.

...

Quote:
i'm bombarded with rate downs instead of people replying to my posts and telling me why they don't agree.

That's what bsphil and I and others have been trying to do, we're getting the same treatment. To me it seems like people aren't interested in having a discussion with anyone who may disagree with them, no matter how rationally they try to do so.

Quote:
Doesn't matter makes it easier on me when you guys have nothing good to say.

And here we have my point exactly

Quote:
so now that you negative nancies have nothing to complain about you decided to start something new

Actually this is your thread. And why would you even start such a thread if you didn't want a discussion on the subject?

Quote:
Who the @#%^ cares lol, don't play the game if this bothers you so much

In one of my earlier posts I stated that this issue would not be enough to make me not buy the game. There are plenty of other issues that can do that quite efficiently, this one is very minor, but you started this discussion, and so this is what we're trying to discuss.

Quote:
I didn't say you should agree with me or anything.

And yet if we don't agree, we're trolling... how interesting.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#88 Sep 18 2010 at 8:33 PM Rating: Decent
SolidMack wrote:
Yes this is exactly what I said Smiley: rolleyes. I was talking about bsphil specifically, I'm sorry you decided to clump yourself under that term too...maybe its just a guilty conscious? How are you contributing any more? it seems to me unless i'm "contributing" how you want me to contribute i'm "not contributing" hence i'm bombarded with rate downs instead of people replying to my posts and telling me why they don't agree. Doesn't matter makes it easier on me when you guys have nothing good to say...all I said in response to this "copy paste" video is that its not noticeable unless you look for it, and no one noticed it before MikeB even brought it up - so now that you negative nancies have nothing to complain about you decided to start something new. Who the @#%^ cares lol, don't play the game if this bothers you so much, I know I wouldn't, i mean sh*t if I have to look at the same texture a 100 times and I notice it I know it would drive me insane....all I said was that I wasn't noticing it because I wasn't looking for it, I didn't say you should agree with me or anything.


I noticed long before the copy/pasting was mentioned here on ZAM that there was an awful lot of repeated terrain. You don't do your argument any benefit by trying to claim that "no one noticed it before MikeB even brought it up." You're wrong. I noticed it. A number of people I have been in groups with have commented on it...long before it became a topic of discussion here or elsewhere. There's a particular small rock formation in one of the repeated sections of the terrain around LL that's awfully hard to not notice because it stands out. It's almost like it doesn't belong there. It's contrived. And then when you see it over and over and over again on a trip through the zone, it's kind of hard to not realize that SE took a few shortcuts.

I didn't bring it up because at the end of the day, I don't personally care. In light of the things SE did with the game that can't be so easily explained away, carrying on about it here just seems kind of stupid. There's just an awful lot of ******** about the game right now...it's like the XI boards all over again. Makes me wish the XI crowd hadn't been given free run of the place for over a year to chase out everyone else or we might have a more balanced representation of the concerns and appreciation different people have for the game. But the powers that be wanted to pander to the sure-thing crowd and now we've got what we've got. So maybe you could be a sport and not make it worse by making stupid comments like "no one noticed it until..." and discuss the facts without reaching so far afield. Make no mistake, you're just as much a part of the problem in this thread as anyone else.
#89 Sep 18 2010 at 8:49 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
218 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
In real life everything is completely different everywhere:

[img=177786]

[img=177785]

You didnt pick 2 paticularly good photos to make your point.

Firstly people arent on about some architectural similarities miles apart, but multiple geographical repeats often not so far apart.

Secondly those 2 walmarts are easily distinguishable from each other.
You have Wal*Mart, Wal-Mart.
One has circular plaque on blue bit, one has red border on top of blue bit.
One has black window/door frames, one has white window door frames.
One has beige brickwork, one has grey brickwork, not to mention the whole front looks different :)
____________________________
#90 Sep 18 2010 at 9:02 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
218 posts
SolidMack wrote:
Thing is, and I've said it twice in this topic already, neither you nor anyone else complaining even noticed copy pasting until MikeB brought it up so it wasn't even an issue;

You are on very shaky ground any time you try to speak for everyone like that.
Do you really think it is statistically likely that out of all the beta testers MikeB is the only one to notice?

It is also strange you should have a go at people for replying to a post you made!
____________________________
#91 Sep 18 2010 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
764 posts
I could make similar video's of large amount of games, mmo or not, and many of those being regarded as good games.
____________________________


#92 Sep 18 2010 at 9:08 PM Rating: Good
**
305 posts
I think the only thing we can say for sure is that Eorzea is a product of a designer and not of a darwinian model.
____________________________


#93 Sep 18 2010 at 9:10 PM Rating: Default
*
219 posts
I understand that people want to discuss the topic at hand, but sweet jesus after reading this thread it's made me want to claw out my eyes..

There's so much ego floating around on these forums, I wish people would just stop comparing d*** size and realise this is a game.

Yea I noticed the whole copy + paste thing, but to be honest, it won't really bother me.

FFXIV is a game. People play games for fun. If you're going to let something like this stop you playing the game or even hinder your experience, then my suggestion is - man up. You either want to play the game or you don't.

I'm all for discussion, but when a thread turns into a pis*ing match, what's the point?
____________________________
Spikeo 75 RDM - Gilgamesh - Retired
#94 Sep 18 2010 at 9:21 PM Rating: Good
**
327 posts
Now if they had did a copy/paste of this Screenshotthen ya complaint is valid, but a few bushes and rocks ,meh....

Edited, Sep 18th 2010 11:22pm by marsupialboy
____________________________



#95 Sep 18 2010 at 9:38 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,061 posts
I noticed the copy/paste job on my second day of open beta, and that also happened to be the first day I went further out from Gridania than was required for the questline. On my way to Ul'dah I ran into no less than 3 exact same path configurations; left was a straight path down, right was a path ramping upwards. This was along a road that constituted maybe 5% of the zone, if that. Granted once I got to Ul'Dah, it wasn't very noticeable, but in Gridania all you have to do is go two minutes down the road to find the exact same area.

Yea, you guys criticizing us because we want every fire hydrant, stepladder, what have you to be different...that's not the case. We recognize in game design you re-use models, textures, and other assets. That in itself is fine. It's the fact that there are these horrendously huge zones which SE apparently promised were entirely handcrafted, then we get into the zones and you can turn a corner to see the exact same path you did only a minute ago. I don't see the need for the needlessly huge zones, either, BTW...yea, it's an MMO but look at FFXI, the zones are like less than half the size of XIV's zones, didn't have as noticeable copy/paste issues....and players only really used a small portion of each zone. That was even at the peak of the game back after CoP and before ToAU....but that's a different issue altogether.

I mean, I'm gonna speak for myself when I say this, I wasn't expecting SE to pull wine out of it's ****, but I was hoping they'd at least retain a similar level of map quality as FFXI.

Lastly, on the subject of 'Oblivion copy/pasted areas too!', I did notice that and got all my rants about it out of the way like 5 years ago when it came out, haha. Plus there's a difference; in that game you could fast travel to get past monotonous samey areas, with the exception of dungeons...and even then it's not like I'd be going through Oblivion's dungeons for the next five years like the average XIV hardcore player might, so it's sort of forgivable.
#96 Sep 18 2010 at 10:25 PM Rating: Decent
Thief's Knife
*****
15,053 posts
WileyJT wrote:
Okay...let me get this straight. People expect to play a game where not one single thing looks like another? Maybe in the future when an MMO takes up an entire TB of space, but not at the moment. Also, don't most trees/rocks look the same from a distance anyways? Large open expanses of lands are going to start looking the same in game and real life.

Tons of stuff is copy/pasted, it's called a skin and/or tile. It helps keep development time down. Imagine having to develop a huge game world, keep every little detail unique, and keep it optimized so a large population of various systems can run it without choking to death.

Next, I'll be hearing people ******** that the 2" tall grasshoppers that hop around in the grass aren't unique enough. It's okay to pay attention to details, it's not okay to be an **** retentive spaz.



There are shader techniques by which you can create non repeating textures from multiple texture layers. The original Unreal was the first game to do this with a method called detail texturing. If a game released in 1998 that ran on an original 3DFV Voodoo graphics card and a 133Mhz pentium with 4 megabytes could do this I'm pretty sure one of the leading game developers in the world could do it on a top of the line gaming PC in 2010.

An infinate variety of trees and other foliage can be created by constructing them from sets of sub parts. As an example:

10 roots

10 trunks

10 large branches

10 small branches with leaf billboards

5 leaf textures

5 bark textures

This will make an infinite variety of trees for no more cost in memory than 10 or so unique individual tree models. This method can be used for almost any kind of plant you want to create. There is even software to assist in building plants in this manner.

Quote:
Are you going to ***** about a fire hydrant or stairwell looking the same in that game, cause that's about the only game I'd give that level a scrutiny too.


Throw a "rust and dings" shader on the hydrant and stairwell geometry along with a vertex shader that modifies the texture UVs randomly and I'll create a hundred or ****, a thousand different looking hydrants and stairwells for you.

Oh sure they will all be similar because they are using the same geometry, but they'll all be slightly different. (and as manufactured items they should all look similar)

But wait, the railing on the stairwells all look identical.

No problem I'll just use a vertex shader to modify the vertex positions randomly. Now we have an infinite number of slightly different bend railings.



Edited, Sep 19th 2010 1:54am by Lobivopis
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#97 Sep 18 2010 at 10:35 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
27 posts
This has never been an issue for myself, and I doubt ever will. You can label me "this" or "that", it still won't bother me, lmao.

Some people have nothing better to do with their time. That's all I have to say about that.

Haters gonna hate.
#98 Sep 18 2010 at 10:36 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
118 posts
Blah blah blah. Anyone who's willing to throw this big of a tantrum over the repeating scenery wasn't going to play the game in the first place. This is such an ancillary point. I do not accept that repeating terrain features could be the deciding factor for anyone. People who like the game will play and won't care. People who don't like the game won't play because they dislike the game's core features, not because of repeating terrain.

People who like the game don't really care that, if we search for it, we can find the same kind of hill a bunch of times. We're not playing this game as landscape surveyors or geologists, it's just not an issue for us. You can debate all you want about whether it was "good" game design, but why would you bother? Whether you conclude that it's good or it's bad, it's still such a minor point that it doesn't change anything. If someone likes the game, this isn't enough to make them dislike it. If they dislike it, it's not going to be based solely on this feature. The whole debate is not just beating a dead horse, it's beating an irrelevant dead horse. So let's just leave Mr. horsie alone and find some way to spend our time that isn't so perilously close to trolling, k?

Edited, Sep 19th 2010 12:38am by Solimurr
#99 Sep 18 2010 at 10:47 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
320 posts
I don't understand the people complaining about this like it's downright ludicrous.

First you have some legitimate issues that actually make sense to complain about but when those are all done just for the sake of complaining you have these nincompoops who, for the sole purpose of complaining, do it to the most trivial of things.

Let's take a look at some older games. An immediate ***** you to the people who instantly condemn this. In older games you deal with a limited number of tiles. The tiles are identical, although sometimes have switched palettes. You see these same tiles through the entire game, from the beginning, to the end. This happened in earlier FFs. Then, you got into better technology. Technology with 3D models, textures, and normal maps. The normal maps being more recent.

Most games up until now no matter the genre have copied elements. Another thing is you can't exactly "copy/paste" a 3D model nor can you "copy/paste" a section to a wireframe. The way the engine built these maps is potentially to save RAM, as in some games like these the engine will render the maps as you go through them, saving on the data that is already loaded as opposed to constantly generating new data. Since the graphics are so high, the more doodads and differentiated terrain the more memory the computer will need to memorize the scenery. Some games run like that, I don't know if FFXIV is one of them, but it could be an easy bet that it is.

People will say "but on older games you're dealing with limited memory blah blah". Okay so here we have FFXIV which is apparently around 22GB, optimized and compressed probably to the max of its potential so in reality it's probably several dozen or more TB in resources. While it doesn't necessarily add more to the size by simply varying the terrain a bit in the main development engine, it certainly as I said previously taxes the current resources the gamer is running to accomodate the game.

If you guys cannot see this "copy/pasting" in other games, namely FFXI and WoW as good examples, you are either blind or do not play games. Yes this game might do it a bit more but again it brings the possibility of it being a memory issue.

Anyone who keeps complaining about this is just being a ****-disturber.
____________________________


#100 Sep 18 2010 at 10:48 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
Wow tough crowd lol - well you guys win I don't feel like arguing any more about something that will most likely not be changed any time soon. This board has turned into a borefest and people have nothing but bad things to say about the game - I made this topic just to point out there was a new video by mike and have a casual conversation about it...everyone went crazy about it all of a sudden...I kind of wonder where the complainers where before the videos surfaced? "Arelius" you may have noticed it before and I'm sure other people have but my point is it wasn't a big deal and not many people found it to be a big deal - the same people that have been complaining about everything for the last couple months are back at it with this now when they have nothing else to complain about: these people include both bsphil and archangel...I haven't seen them say anything good about the game. Anyway, complain away, I think this is the best approach I can take cuz I don't care to change anyone's mind here or anywhere its always futile...have fun guys I hope you can keep yourselves occupied 'til the next big MMO surfaces and you have new things to complain about.

Edited, Sep 19th 2010 12:54am by SolidMack
____________________________
MUTED
#101 Sep 18 2010 at 10:49 PM Rating: Decent
Thief's Knife
*****
15,053 posts
Rjain wrote:


If you guys cannot see this "copy/pasting" in other games, namely FFXI and WoW as good examples, you are either blind or do not play games. Yes this game might do it a bit more but again it brings the possibility of it being a memory issue.


We never said they didn't do this, we only said that they weren't as blatant about it.

And on modern PCs and game consoles there are plenty of ways to avoid this, see my previous post for a few examples. None of those things take up huge amounts of memory. In fact doing things programmaticly will save memory.

The Unreal 3 and Cryengine 3 have like, a hojillion tools for these very things.


EDIT: even Square Enix now realizes that they should have just licensed an existing engine.

http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/10/crystal-tools-may-have-been-a-mistake.aspx



Edited, Sep 19th 2010 2:00am by Lobivopis
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 17 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (17)