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#1 Sep 19 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hi folks,

We're working on several guides to pitch on launch day to help people out and I'm almost done with a crafting one, but need some feedback as well as some screenshot help.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/wiki/Crafting_in_Final_Fantasy_XIV

Osarion mentioned to me something called Touching Up, which I haven't encountered myself since I haven't crafted any equipment. Can someone explain it to me so I can include it and if possible, send me a screenshot of the option in-game?

Let me know about anything else I missed. I have only heard of one way to gain Guild Marks, so any info there would help.
#2 Sep 19 2010 at 12:54 PM Rating: Good
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Very nice looking compilation of information. Going to give it a more thorough look over now, but at a quick glance it's good.
#3 Sep 19 2010 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
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AFAIK, you can get guild marks 2 ways. One way is through rank 20+ leves, and also by class quests. It's hard to know how many GM's (guild marks) you get from class quests since they weren't open to beta testers.
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#4 Sep 19 2010 at 12:59 PM Rating: Excellent
"Touch Up" is an option given when you're crafting non-levequest gear once you've reached 100% progress. It basically allows you to try and increase the Quality of the finished piece but also takes away from the remaining Durability. If you drop your Durability to 0 while using the Touch Up option, the synthesis fails and you lose your mats.

Also:

The sparks flying out of the orb appear after you have failed more than one Rapid or Bold Synthesis action (might even appear after one failure) and continue to "grow" and change color from yellow -> red with subsequent failures. The presence of sparks seem to indicate a global reduction in your chance to succeed with further actions.

Edited, Sep 19th 2010 12:08pm by Aurelius
#5 Sep 19 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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The Wait function is available for when your synthesis becomes unstable or chaotic, which will be noted in your General chat log. This will allow you simply wait and let your synthesis stabilize without losing Durability.

Actually, you do lose durability using the Wait command. First wait will cost 1 durability, and if you wait again, 2 durability, and so on. Sometimes it might take as many as 5 waits before the crystal becomes stable.

There's also the option of letting the timer runs out, which will also cost durability points. The first time it runs out will cost you 2 durability, and second time will cost you 4. Haven't tried to let the timer run out for a third time cuz I was afraid it might cost me 6 or 8 durability. I have no idea what this option does, or if it's similar to Wait though...
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#6 Sep 19 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
uomaru wrote:
Quote:
The Wait function is available for when your synthesis becomes unstable or chaotic, which will be noted in your General chat log. This will allow you simply wait and let your synthesis stabilize without losing Durability.

Actually, you do lose durability using the Wait command. First wait will cost 1 durability, and if you wait again, 2 durability, and so on. Sometimes it might take as many as 5 waits before the crystal becomes stable.

There's also the option of letting the timer runs out, which will also cost durability points. The first time it runs out will cost you 2 durability, and second time will cost you 4. Haven't tried to let the timer run out for a third time cuz I was afraid it might cost me 6 or 8 durability. I have no idea what this option does, or if it's similar to Wait though...


It's not at all similar to Wait. Wait has a "strategic" element to it that can create a benefit. Running out of time carries no benefit at all and only causes you to lose durability.

Worth pointing out for clarity is that the durability cost of Wait resets any time you use a different action. So if you use Wait three times and then use Standard/Rapid/Bold, the next time you use Wait it will be back down to 1 durability cost.
#7 Sep 19 2010 at 1:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
"Touch Up" is an option given when you're crafting non-levequest gear once you've reached 100% progress. It basically allows you to try and increase the Quality of the finished piece but also takes away from the remaining Durability. If you drop your Durability to 0 while using the Touch Up option, the synthesis fails and you lose your mats.
Edited, Sep 19th 2010 12:08pm by Aurelius


I have done some cooking that is non-levequest and have not had the touch-up option, so can you let me know if it's equipment only or if this has appears for things like potions or cloth?
#8 Sep 19 2010 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
Pikko wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
"Touch Up" is an option given when you're crafting non-levequest gear once you've reached 100% progress. It basically allows you to try and increase the Quality of the finished piece but also takes away from the remaining Durability. If you drop your Durability to 0 while using the Touch Up option, the synthesis fails and you lose your mats.
Edited, Sep 19th 2010 12:08pm by Aurelius


I have done some cooking that is non-levequest and have not had the touch-up option, so can you let me know if it's equipment only or if this has appears for things like potions or cloth?


Seems to be only for gear that you would equip (weapons, armor, accessories). I haven't seen it show up for anything else. Components and consumables seem to be exempt from the Touch Up feature.
#9 Sep 19 2010 at 1:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Can anyone get a screenshot of the Touch-Up option highlighted?
#10 Sep 19 2010 at 1:44 PM Rating: Decent
Pikko wrote:
Can anyone get a screenshot of the Touch-Up option highlighted?


Might be able to steal one from figure 1-6 of the crafting guide in the wiki.

Edit: nvm...it's not highlighted in the wiki. I don't recall if it had a tooltip or not and I just uninstalled the beta client a couple of hours ago so I can't try to check myself.

Edited, Sep 19th 2010 12:53pm by Aurelius
#11 Sep 19 2010 at 1:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Link? Not sure what guide you're referring to.
#12 Sep 19 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
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Pikko wrote:
Can anyone get a screenshot of the Touch-Up option highlighted?


Like this?

Screenshot
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#13 Sep 19 2010 at 1:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Awesome, thanks!!
#14 Sep 19 2010 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
Pikko wrote:
Link? Not sure what guide you're referring to.


Zalim's Intro to Crafting Guide but I see you got an image so you're squared away.
#15 Sep 19 2010 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
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I knew I had seen the image somewhere before... oh well, I needed to do something with the last of my shards and materials as one last beta-style hurrah.
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#16 Sep 19 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
MasterOutlaw the Irrelevant wrote:
I knew I had seen the image somewhere before... oh well, I needed to do something with the last of my shards and materials as one last beta-style hurrah.


I was going to try and push Armorsmith to 10 today for my fourth DoH class @ rank 10. Then I said, "Ugh." Like the crafting system, but not worth grinding progress until retail.
#17 Sep 19 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Okay so what happens if you don't finish an item?
#18 Sep 19 2010 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
Pikko wrote:
Okay so what happens if you don't finish an item?


Once you get to the "Finish" or "Touch Up" option list, the timer is still running and if you don't select an option, it will eventually crank your durability down to 0 and you'll lose the item.

You can use the Touch Up option repeatedly as long as you still have Durability remaining. Each time you use it, your Durability will go down by a certain (seemingly random) amount and your Quality will go up by a (seemingly random) amount. Either way, you blow up your item by dropping to 0 durability or you click Finish and reap the rewards.
#19 Sep 19 2010 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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Pikko wrote:
Okay so what happens if you don't finish an item?


Quote:
"Touch Up" is an option given when you're crafting non-levequest gear once you've reached 100% progress. It basically allows you to try and increase the Quality of the finished piece but also takes away from the remaining Durability. If you drop your Durability to 0 while using the Touch Up option, the synthesis fails and you lose your mats.

Basically, you can eiter finish, or attempt to upgrade the quality of the item. If the touch up fails, so does the synth.
That's what i got out of that statement anyway.
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#20 Sep 19 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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MasterOutlaw the Irrelevant wrote:
Pikko wrote:
Can anyone get a screenshot of the Touch-Up option highlighted?


Like this?

Screenshot

Don't do it!((((゜Д゜;))))
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#21 Sep 19 2010 at 2:17 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Basically, you can eiter finish, or attempt to upgrade the quality of the item. If the touch up fails, so does the synth.
That's what i got out of that statement anyway.


Touch Up only fails the synth if it attempts to use more Durability than you have left. Unless you're swimming in extra Durability it's usually a better idea to just hit Finish, at least until we find out the benefits of higher Quality (outside of increased level rewards, since Quality seems separate from HQing).
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#22 Sep 19 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Have any of you seen or made any HQ gear?
#23 Sep 19 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
MasterOutlaw the Irrelevant wrote:
Quote:
Basically, you can eiter finish, or attempt to upgrade the quality of the item. If the touch up fails, so does the synth.
That's what i got out of that statement anyway.


Touch Up only fails the synth if it attempts to use more Durability than you have left. Unless you're swimming in extra Durability it's usually a better idea to just hit Finish, at least until we find out the benefits of higher Quality (outside of increased level rewards, since Quality seems separate from HQing).


I think that quality influences the chance for HQ results but doesn't guarantee it. With the exception of the appraisal score, there doesn't seem to be any other explicit use for Quality. I can't imagine SE using it strictly for levequest appraisal, but I haven't had a chance to do enough testing to really confirm anything as more than a preliminary theory.
#24 Sep 19 2010 at 2:24 PM Rating: Decent
Pikko wrote:
Have any of you seen or made any HQ gear?


I was doing some lower rank Weaving in the guild the other day and a rank 21 Weaver next to me was cranking out +1 gear with alarming frequency. They told me that it basically gave a boost to durability (as it pertains to repairs) but at least for that particular recipe there was no other obvious benefit.
#25 Sep 19 2010 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
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I made a Copper Choker +1 before (my first and only necklace as a rank 3 Goldsmith) and I've made HQ Armorer components a few times. All the times I HQ'd I noticed my Quality was actually pretty low, never above 100 and usually 50 or lower.
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#26 Sep 19 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
MasterOutlaw the Irrelevant wrote:
I made a Copper Choker +1 before (my first and only necklace as a rank 3 Goldsmith) and I've made HQ Armorer components a few times. All the times I HQ'd I noticed my Quality was actually pretty low, never above 100 and usually 50 or lower.


I got about a dozen Distilled Water +1 results from about 120-140 attempts and in most cases, my Durability was around 70 and my Quality was around 100-130. On one attempt, I had Durability around 70 and Quality at 277 and got an NQ result. My only guess right now is that let's say you have a base chance for HQ result of 5%. Higher quality might increase that to 10%. Something like that could still produce results like yours as exceptions to the rule based on the random element. It just seems to me that if there's no benefit to having a higher quality on the finished item, then the crafting system as it currently stands is horribly broken. There would be no point to juggling Standard/Rapid/Bold synthesis outside of levequest synths. In that case, "Just spam Rapid" would truly be the best advice for non-levequest combines which would be tragic.
#27 Sep 19 2010 at 2:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Any of you have a +1 equip screenshot?
#28 Sep 19 2010 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
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Pikko wrote:
Have any of you seen or made any HQ gear?


Yep and you can make it go high quality in the touch up phase. I've made a bracelet +2 and lots of +1 stuff including a copper scepter +1
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#29 Sep 19 2010 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
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Pikko wrote:
Any of you have a +1 equip screenshot?


I can get you one
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#30 Sep 19 2010 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
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Here

Screenshot
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#31 Sep 19 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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if you want I can try to HQ another one and get a pic of "touch up" and the +1 item
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#32 Sep 19 2010 at 3:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thanks Olor!
#33 Sep 19 2010 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah! Finally!

Screenshot
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#34 Sep 19 2010 at 3:29 PM Rating: Good
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Screenshot


and just the item with the touch up button showing
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#35 Sep 19 2010 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
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This is what an HQ +2 looks like

Screenshot
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#36 Sep 19 2010 at 3:37 PM Rating: Good
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There is a different character animation when producing a lot of items due to high quality once you finish the synthesis, for example maing 20 items instead of 12, it is shown in the pic 3 posts up.

And is it confirmed waiting multiple times makes the shards stabilize? I think waiting is only used to turn the glow from red or yellow back to rainbow or white.

Edited, Sep 19th 2010 5:37pm by MaFi0s0

Edited, Sep 19th 2010 5:38pm by MaFi0s0
#37 Sep 19 2010 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
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Screenshot


This one is a slightly better shot
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#38 Sep 19 2010 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
MaFi0s0 wrote:
There is a different character animation when producing a lot of items due to high quality once you finish the synthesis, for example maing 20 items instead of 12, it is shown in the pic 3 posts up.

And is it confirmed waiting multiple times makes the shards stabilize? I think waiting is only used to turn the glow from red or yellow back to rainbow or white.


Yes, it's confirmed that you can use Wait to minimize the risk while waiting for an element to stabilize. The element will remain unstable for a seemingly random number of "turns" (each turn being one synthesis action or one wait.) It doesn't matter how you advance those turns. The main difference is that with Wait, you can cut the risk of catastrophic durability/quality loss each turn, whereas Standard/Rapid/Bold Synthesis is where the risk is.
#39 Sep 19 2010 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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In my experience, "Touch Up" hasn't provided any increases in Quality. The only benefits I've gotten personally from using "Touch Up" seems to be a chance at a HQ item (+1, +2, etc.).

I didn't have a lot of time today to test, but I made 42 Copper Wristlets (they're cheap and easy), using Touch Up to finish each. I never got any more Quality from a Touch Up. The lowest Quality that yielded a +1 after Touch Up was 40, so there seems to be either no quality threshold for Touch Up to yield HQ items, or it is below 40. Total HQ Wristlets of the 42 I made was 8.

Purely hypothesis, but I would presume the chance to get a HQ item from a Touch Up would increase with a higher Quality score.

Not sure if this info helps or not, but wanted to post the results I got from spending all my gil on crafting mats before beta went poof.
#40 Sep 19 2010 at 7:22 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah I agree - there is no chance of an increase in quality from touch up. Quality doesn't matter after the item is made (except it appears to perhaps slightly affect experience gain) unless the item goes HQ. I've gotten HQ with fairly low quality before too. Part of it seems to depend on how many times you "fail" as well as how worn out your tool is (I swear I get less fails after buying a new "weathered chaser hammer"/"weathered mudstone grinding wheel").

Both of the HQ results above were gotten with the basic guild "gemmary" buff and a new set of goldsmith's tools.

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#41 Sep 19 2010 at 8:07 PM Rating: Good
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The guide suggests waiting if you have a lot of sparks, but sparks never seem to go down. It's not that clear to me what sparks do, but everyone presumes it is bad. Most likely things in my opinion are just worse results overall in some way or making it more likely that the elemental will go into bad states (unstable or color).

On the colors, the consensus seems to be that alternating colors is bad or at best neutral. I've seen a bunch of different theories on the other solid colors, but I haven't noticed any difference between them. The Alchemist ability Preserve "temporarily maintains favorable synthesis conditions". When used, it always makes the color of the glowing orb white for several attempts. These leads me to believe that the white orb color is the best somehow, although solid yellow and solid red have given me similar results.
#42 Sep 20 2010 at 1:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Sort of related: Has anyone noticed that Crafting Guildleve's are significantly easier than crafting outside the leve? I noticed that I barely even failed a rapid/bold/standard when synthinhg for a Guildleve. I did over 10 Leve's, some even called for much higher rank than I was, and I never botched a single synth.
#43 Sep 20 2010 at 5:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hmm, the sparks and stuff seem extremely complicated. Maybe I'll add an "Advanced Theory" section and you guys can have at it? I more or less just wanted a basic guide. With that in mind, is this enough?
#44 Sep 20 2010 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
The sparks start to appear when you fail Rapid or Bold synthesis attempts. Off the top of my head, you can fail one Rapid/Bold attempt and no sparks will appear (or at the very least, I can say with certainty that they don't always appear after just one failure). After that, they grow/change color with each successive failure. Nothing makes them go away, but right now it's hard to pin down just exactly what impact they have. It would appear that they reduce your chance to succeed with subsequent actions, but I can't say whether that's limited to Bold/Rapid or a global reduction in your chance to succeed.

Using the Wait command is a strategy for dealing with unstable elements, which is different from the sparks.
#45 Sep 20 2010 at 5:51 PM Rating: Good
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RayneZ wrote:
Sort of related: Has anyone noticed that Crafting Guildleve's are significantly easier than crafting outside the leve? I noticed that I barely even failed a rapid/bold/standard when synthinhg for a Guildleve. I did over 10 Leve's, some even called for much higher rank than I was, and I never botched a single synth.

I noticed that I could do rank 10 fishing leves easily at rank 7 fisher but I never had much success with the rank 10 weaver and culinary leves that low, I just kept failing, even the rank 5 weaver leves gave me a hard time before I got to that rank.
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#46 Sep 20 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Very nice starting guide. If they can't craft after that, they really don't need to consider colors yet, so I'd agree the speculation on colors belongs in an advanced theory section.
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