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Estimating Bazaar PricesFollow

#1 Sep 20 2010 at 5:26 PM Rating: Good
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The one thing I found difficult to do in Beta was to set prices for minerals found when mining and just generally killing. How did you guys go about pricing things? Was it simply guess?

As there's no AH how will prices level off, will it just be down to time? If so, will different servers have different prices for the same objects depending on what's accepted as the 'norm'?
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#2 Sep 20 2010 at 5:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Baseline should be hinted at by NPC pricing, is how I'd go.

NPCs have a pretty "bold" sell:buy rate, in order to leave plenty of room for player to price in-between.

For example, if an NPC will sell to you copper ingots for 1,000 gil, no player should ever price it above 1,000 gil. Components to make it should also fall in line, and be a fraction of 1,000 gil.

Also, if NPC buys the ingots for 200 gil, then no player should really sell theirs below that, as they can get better and faster money selling directly.

If the NPC-selling price is unknown, you can always try to guess it by multiplying their buy price.

Obviously, as time passes, player supply and demand is ultimately what determine the real value of things, but using the NPCs as a starting point seems like it will be the best bet at first.

The problem arises when NPC sell you finished products below the price of the components. You have to sell your finished product below NPC price to get any sales, yet you are losing money if you sell that low.

(The argument is often that once I turn copper into gloves, all you can do is wear the gloves. Should I sell you the ore, you're free to make it into many other products, therefore the value of the components is superior to the value of the finished product.)
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#3 Sep 20 2010 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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Quite often I'll just base it strictly off the Vendor price. This works well for general base items, equipment/synth parts become tricky. Really just add the total cost to make, and increase it some to cover time/shard usage. As always, supply and demand.

It's always harder off the start of a game, as there really isn't a set economy to compare things with, but I still managed to sell the odd item without much trying. Plus the Personal Bazaar can hold a few other items if your inventory becomes full.
#4 Sep 20 2010 at 5:39 PM Rating: Good
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Ahhh - this takes me back to my Masters Thesis in economics - subject: Impact of asymetric information on equilibrium clearing prices.

In short, people will bang on about supply and demand determining prices as this is one of the fundemental elements of economic theory but the equilibrium price reached in a supply/demand model assumes perfect information. That is, that everyone knows all the prices charged in the market.

Where people are not aware of the price paid by an NPC for mats, or final goods, dis-equilibria will occur and prices will not make sense.

In the early days of FFXIV - expect mats for crafting to be grossly overpriced until people clock on to the fact that they can buy from NPC's!

Without a central auctioneer, the perfect information assumption is going to fail, prices will be all over the place.
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#5 Sep 20 2010 at 5:46 PM Rating: Good
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I just set prices to whatever I would feel comfortable paying for them. From what I experienced during beta, it really only seemed worth it to bazaar crafted items and hard to find items, otherwise I was better off NPCing things I didn't need. There's certainly no shortage of common items, so it doesn't feel like I'm depriving the market of essential crafting materials, and because gil is otherwise easy to come by, I don't feel like I need to get the most possible out of my loot.

I do think it's annoying that there's no way to gauge how much something is selling for without finding other people selling it. However, this works much the same as a buyer; if you see something for sale at a certain price, are you willing to drop the gil right there, or do you shop around for a better price and hope it's still there if you can't find anything? Overall the system doesn't seem as efficient as an AH system, but it's still just as balanced between buyers and sellers, and when it comes to high ticket items I'm sure more people will rely on advertisements via shout than just leaving it on a retainer.

I dunno, the bazaar system has a certain charm to it, and while I'm sure plenty of armchair economic experts will be quick to explain how broken it is, I've really found it to work just fine in context with the rest of the game. This system definitely wouldn't have worked in FFXI, but for XIV it seems to be fine so far. We'll have to see how well it holds up when we get down to the really valuable items though.
#6 Sep 20 2010 at 5:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Personally, i've usually sold things for 3x vendor selling price:

If it sells to vendor for 1000 gil, i sell it for 3000 gil, etc.

I found that that usually covers the cost of materials (most times, special things i usually do slight markup for cost, i dont go crazy like some people do, i dont believe in gouging the market or people)

First few months in the game are gonna be chaotic with people going crazy on prices, so just be aware of that, eventually things will settle and prices will be known based upon difficulty of acquisition lol.
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#7 Sep 20 2010 at 5:50 PM Rating: Good
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I set my prices on several factors. I'll use Bronze daggers as my example.

First I saw that maple bows were almost 15k from vendors in gridania. That gave me an idea of what i thought the value of level 8ish weapons should be.

Then I took into account the price of the ingredients (this was easier because all the ingredients were purchasable from npcs) The price per attempt on bronze dagger was roughly 7k. The I figured what my time and effort were worth in putting the daggers together and came up with a price near the standard set by npcs and weighted with the cost to make it.

12k per dagger.

I think I maybe saw one person selling a dagger at 10k, but almost everyone else was selling them for way more than I was. I can't speak for how well they sold for others, but at 12k i had one person tell me it was too much, but that didn't prevent people from buying every one I made.
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#8 Sep 20 2010 at 5:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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F3rth wrote:
I set my prices on several factors. I'll use Bronze daggers as my example.

First I saw that maple bows were almost 15k from vendors in gridania. That gave me an idea of what i thought the value of level 8ish weapons should be.

Then I took into account the price of the ingredients (this was easier because all the ingredients were purchasable from npcs) The price per attempt on bronze dagger was roughly 7k. The I figured what my time and effort were worth in putting the daggers together and came up with a price near the standard set by npcs and weighted with the cost to make it.

12k per dagger.

I think I maybe saw one person selling a dagger at 10k, but almost everyone else was selling them for way more than I was. I can't speak for how well they sold for others, but at 12k i had one person tell me it was too much, but that didn't prevent people from buying every one I made.


I sold 3 bronze daggers at 30k gil each and they were gone in 2hrs :D It helped when I was the only one who were selling it :) Yup...if you found yourself the only seller of a certain item that you know people will need, don't feel bad to up the price. It is not personal...it is business.


Edited, Sep 20th 2010 7:54pm by OneFatAngel
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#9 Sep 21 2010 at 12:36 AM Rating: Decent
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I do understand that everyone wants to make the quickest and highest buck they can. But selling an item you can get at a vendor for 3x the amount is silly, YET genius if it sells. My problem with it all is that their are people that would pay that 3x price rather then buying it at the npc. To me thats ludicrous.

I did up prices on things that I crafted, rare, or cannot be bought at an npc. Although, during the beta I saw some crazy crazy prices a week before it ended. 250k for easily obtainable guildleve items, random harvesting items for 5k-10k that can be bought at npc for under 1k. And then there are the shards, when people up prices on shards, all that really does is make crafters up their prices. And that isn't good for the lot of us. Shards are so easy to come buy and farm! Also, one time I went into the Ul'dah market wards and only 1 retainer had any shards for sale out of all the retainers(a lot), and they were selling them for 900gil each. In my eyes, thats crazy. Especially since recipes call for 4-6 shards on average. I was just disgusted to think someone, or maybe it was the rmt that was in the beta, went and probably purchased all the shards in the wards and then jacked up the price since they were the only one to have them.

Basically what I'm trying to say is. I fear crazy inflation during the first few weeks. Alot of smart people are going to get rich quick.

As long as everyone has fun I guess. I understand economics is volatile.

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#10 Sep 21 2010 at 12:41 AM Rating: Good
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A lot just comes down to what you know, and when you know... doing prior research helps... makes me think of Aion launch... and how I could sell dyes for 10 times the shop price.. since no one realized the store was around the corner.
#11 Sep 21 2010 at 12:56 AM Rating: Excellent
Another thing to consider is location. If you are selling materials needed for crafting that are themselves crafted in a location that makes it convenient for people leveling another craft to obtain then you can charge more (hopefully that makes sense). For example: I level Carpenter up by crafting dagger handles. Eventually, I run out of mats but now I have a ton of dagger handles. I don't have any levels in Blacksmith so they don't do me any good. I could NPC them for some gil or I could go hang out in the Blacksmith guild with them on bazaar. If they are not readily obtainable from the NPCs in the guild you could charge a decent amount for them because people will pay for the convenience of not having to hunt them down.

Laudatio wrote:
A lot just comes down to what you know, and when you know... doing prior research helps... makes me think of Aion launch... and how I could sell dyes for 10 times the shop price.. since no one realized the store was around the corner.


This made me lol.
#12 Sep 21 2010 at 2:31 AM Rating: Good
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selling cool looking items at a high price works well too. In FFXI i used to bazaar all my used timeless-hourglasses for like 30k each, and clear crystals or w/e you get from trading a crystal to a craig for 10k each. People always bought them. It worked for like 3 years.
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