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More from the Creator of Fatigue System VideoFollow

#1 Sep 20 2010 at 7:08 PM Rating: Excellent
Remember that excellent video that broke down the fatigue system of FFXIV? We caught up with the video's creator to chat with him about his project. We also ask him about his conclusion that the fatigue system brings more freedom to FFXIV. We also ask him whether he plans to make more videos about FFXIV, and we think you'll like his answer -- we definitely do!

Check out what he has to say in today's news story!
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Thayos Redblade
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Hyperion
#2 Sep 20 2010 at 7:17 PM Rating: Good
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Excellent! Thanks for doing this.
#3 Sep 20 2010 at 7:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Cool. Thanks, Thayos. The guy is a FFXIV superstar in my book. I've been telling people about that video - trying to use my fingers as the stick figures to mimic the casual guy and the hard core guy running, while the limit walls get lifted out of the way. I get some odd looks.

Looking forward to more videos!
#4 Sep 20 2010 at 7:27 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
Fundamental flaw: Being a hardcore player isn't about racing people to level cap. It's about actively working towards being the best player you possibly can be. This does not necessitate leveling as fast as possible, and most often, it requires you take time away from leveling to work on other tasks that improve your character. Leveling is the easiest thing you can do, maximizing your gear and perfecting your strategies is what hardcore players will do to advance their performance.



Edited, Sep 20th 2010 8:28pm by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#5 Sep 20 2010 at 8:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree, but as a counterpoint to that, taking that time away from leveling is what gets you left behind, which often puts you at a disadvantage to those who race to cap.

Unquestionably it's a bad approach from a psychological standpoint. Play a game like Kingdom of Loathing, which has enjoyed great success, but limits you to a certain number of moves per real life day. Limiting progress is not inherently a bad thing.

I think they'd get a better reception from this if they added some kind of progress requirement, the requirement itself being capped (I think KoL did this, though it's been years since I played.) For example, for each X chunk of experience, require a certain amount of food to be eaten... part of progressing now involves acquiring food. But eventually, you'll become too full and just can't eat anymore that day/week. This is less likely to create the perception that the freedom of xping is being limited, and more like this is part of the fundamental process of progression-- something that you work for, just like killing monsters.

While it's obvious from the reception that this isn't a good psychological approach to the system, it's also true that people who understand this are better able to rationalize away their guttural aversion.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#6 Sep 20 2010 at 9:19 PM Rating: Default
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150 posts
So his argument is that the fatigue system gives him more freedom to live a normal life.
When we were first hearing about the system I made a post in regards to this being a positive aspect of the system.
In my opinion this is a good thing for a lot of people.
I used to play this game way too much, so I can completely understand where he is coming from.

Another comment I made was that maybe it's better to hit a wall and not be able to progress than to constantly be grinding.
To be honest when you think about it in this perspective it's actually somewhat relieving.

If you like the idea of the system that's great, it's even grown on me a little.
I have changed and my lifestyle has changed, and I will never play as much as I used too.

However, please know the following:
This game tells you when you have to stop playing a job and halts your physical level
It might not come right out and say it, but at a certain point you will hit a wall and be forced to stop.

Arguing that there are lots of other jobs is irrelevant.
I hear people saying this like it's a new feature. "Oh that's ok, you can play other jobs."
Why wouldn't you be able to play multiple jobs, this was standard in Final Fantasy 11.
If people want to play other jobs they will play other jobs, this does not change that the job you were playing is walled.

This system is not for your benefit, it is for the developer's.
The purpose of the fatigue system is no different from the purpose of the standard system; to keep you playing longer and to keep you paying monthly fees.
While time sinks are sometimes necessary devices, anything other than game content that is used to keep you playing longer can not be for the player's benefit.
You may prefer this system, but don't believe anyone that tries to make it out to be a triumph for casual gaming.

The game does not make it easier for casual gamers it limits everyone equally.
It is still going to take casual players a long time to advance, the only difference is that now it will take everyone a long time to advance.
It is much easier to solo in this game, but it should be easy to solo with or without fatigue.

TL;TR:
As I said, if you like the system that's great, but see it exactly for what it is, an exchange.
Square Enix is exchanging one time sink for another, that's all it is, a new time sink.

Edited, Sep 21st 2010 1:09am by Osanshouo
#7 Sep 20 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
Fundamental flaw: Being a hardcore player isn't about racing people to level cap. It's about actively working towards being the best player you possibly can be. This does not necessitate leveling as fast as possible, and most often, it requires you take time away from leveling to work on other tasks that improve your character. Leveling is the easiest thing you can do, maximizing your gear and perfecting your strategies is what hardcore players will do to advance their performance.


Really? I know you've been playing this genre for awhile like myself and you should know better.

This will be my first MMO (6th overall) that will NOT follow the typical powerlevel to cap, powerlevel professions, powerlevel the economy into the ground. Being capped has always given the first players an advantage in past MMOs across many fronts. Easier monetary acquisition, access to isolated areas, etc, etc.

So YES hardcore IS about racing to the cap except in this game. I fully expect this game to be the most fluid launch from a character advancement perspective, ever. I'm sorry Mr Hardcore I have a feeling you'll have a hard time controlling this one early on. I have always played a bit more on average than most, but there has always been that few "hardcore" that really put the pressure on everyone else. Its not about being the best player, it's about control...period.

So if you're reading this and you consider yourself somewhat casual then rejoice my friends because you don't need to be worried about being pigeon-holed this time.

Now on with the hardc...ummm....I mean crybabies.
#8 Sep 20 2010 at 10:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I can live with it, but that doesn't alleviate my displeasure on their attempt to incorporate socialism into a game.
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#9 Sep 21 2010 at 12:54 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
thumperbs wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Fundamental flaw: Being a hardcore player isn't about racing people to level cap. It's about actively working towards being the best player you possibly can be. This does not necessitate leveling as fast as possible, and most often, it requires you take time away from leveling to work on other tasks that improve your character. Leveling is the easiest thing you can do, maximizing your gear and perfecting your strategies is what hardcore players will do to advance their performance.


Really? I know you've been playing this genre for awhile like myself and you should know better.

This will be my first MMO (6th overall) that will NOT follow the typical powerlevel to cap, powerlevel professions, powerlevel the economy into the ground. Being capped has always given the first players an advantage in past MMOs across many fronts. Easier monetary acquisition, access to isolated areas, etc, etc.

So YES hardcore IS about racing to the cap except in this game. I fully expect this game to be the most fluid launch from a character advancement perspective, ever. I'm sorry Mr Hardcore I have a feeling you'll have a hard time controlling this one early on. I have always played a bit more on average than most, but there has always been that few "hardcore" that really put the pressure on everyone else. Its not about being the best player, it's about control...period.

So if you're reading this and you consider yourself somewhat casual then rejoice my friends because you don't need to be worried about being pigeon-holed this time.

Now on with the hardc...ummm....I mean crybabies.
Rushing to the level cap is something that hardcore players can do after they've already taken several other jobs to cap and have a wealth of resources and experience to aid them. It is not the goal, just the means. For example, most people in FFXI with Maat's Caps suck *** at most of their jobs, because they solely focused on grinding out exp as quickly as possible rather than taking time to constantly exceed their own expectations of performance on every job they play. This inadvertently leads to better exp/hour for the player and his party, which also inadvertently leads to getting to the level cap quicker.

More succinctly:

thumperbs wrote:
Its not about being the best player, it's about control...period.
You're confusing 'hardcore' with 'douchebag'.

Edited, Sep 21st 2010 1:56am by bsphil
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
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