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i-5 vs i-7'sFollow

#1 Sep 23 2010 at 10:37 PM Rating: Decent
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ive read that FFXIV recommended i-7 cpus or higher on this forum but cant find any link for this info. FFXIV website states different for min spec's for cpu. how are the i-7's any better than the i-5's for this game? is the game using hyper-threading? the i-5 and i-7 have the same amount of cores i believe. wouldn't a i-5 OC to say 3.8-4.0ghz and a i-7 OC to the same speed be the same? the i-7's use 130watts where as the i-5's use 95 watts..
less watts means less heat and better OC ability's. am i missing something?
#2 Sep 23 2010 at 10:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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high end i5 (and 1156 socket 17's) will compete with mid-high end i7 (x58 socket) with single GPU, multi GPU it's arguable that the i7 is better with 2-4x 16x PCIe support. However there's proof that 8x pcie is plenty for current gen GPUs even in 4x Crossfire or SLI.

The biggest benefit is i7 has tri-channle ram.

Budget, go i5

Decent cash flow, go i7

*EDIT* As noted below i accidently lumped in the 1156 i7s as i5s, fixed my post since it's near the top as to minimize confusion.

Edited, Sep 24th 2010 2:30pm by PerrinofSylph
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#3 Sep 23 2010 at 10:53 PM Rating: Decent
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i see that the 1-5's use the 1156 connector and have to use the p55 mobo's, if using a duel GPU they will only run in 8x8 mode not the 16x16, think i got this part right. would there be a big difference in running X2 GTX 460's in the 8x8 mode vs the 16x16 or just go with a single 460 as it would be a waste. also is taking advantage of 2 GPUS SLI or Crossfire?
#4 Sep 23 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Decent
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I have a really hard time picking out a processor and motherboard too >_>

I know I want an i7 quad core. Got any tips on the different series and which to pick and what motherboard to match it with?
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#5 Sep 24 2010 at 12:11 AM Rating: Default
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if you are looking for price to performance ratio i would go with AMD.. just my opinion
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#6 Sep 24 2010 at 12:13 AM Rating: Decent
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idk, i was thinking of going with a i-5 750. OC to 3.8-4.0ghz along with a MSI N460GTX CYCLONE 1GD5/OC GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB and OC that as well. it runs very cool even OC
and a ASUS P7P55D-E Pro LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard.

maybe a decent run
#7 Sep 24 2010 at 12:15 AM Rating: Decent
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redpoop wrote:
i see that the 1-5's use the 1156 connector and have to use the p55 mobo's, if using a duel GPU they will only run in 8x8 mode not the 16x16, think i got this part right. would there be a big difference in running X2 GTX 460's in the 8x8 mode vs the 16x16 or just go with a single 460 as it would be a waste. also is taking advantage of 2 GPUS SLI or Crossfire?


I don't know much about this stuff, but from my recent looking into a new build, it seems as SLI is nVidia, and X-Fire is Radeon?
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#8 Sep 24 2010 at 12:16 AM Rating: Decent
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GusMorgan wrote:
I have a really hard time picking out a processor and motherboard too >_>

I know I want an i7 quad core. Got any tips on the different series and which to pick and what motherboard to match it with?
What's your budget? If you want an i7 and are willing to drop ~$500 on a mobo and CPU, I'd recommend this.
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#9 Sep 24 2010 at 12:18 AM Rating: Decent
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ya
#10 Sep 24 2010 at 12:18 AM Rating: Decent
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(Desktop)
i5's are dual core and i7's are quad core.

(Laptop)
i5's are dual core and i7's are either dual or quad core.

I see 4 cores active on my i7 playing FFXIV. ~30% ~40% ~50% ~90%

I'd say go for the i7...

Edited, Sep 23rd 2010 11:19pm by BaseVilliN
#11 Sep 24 2010 at 12:20 AM Rating: Decent
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someone link where FFXIV recommends an i7 or higher. the website on the FFXIV for the games min spec is way lower LOL
#12 Sep 24 2010 at 12:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Desktop)
i5's are dual core and i7's are quad core.

(Laptop)
i5's are dual core and i7's are either dual or quad core.

I see 4 cores active on my i7 playing FFXIV. ~30% ~40% ~50% ~90%

I'd say go for the i7...

Edited, Sep 23rd 2010 11:19pm by BaseVilliN


i5's are not duel core lol.. they are quad core same as i-7's
#13 Sep 24 2010 at 12:50 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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You're both right and wrong. Kinda.

For desktops, the 7xx series i5s (Lynnfield) are quad core, the 6xx series (Clarkdale) are dual core. Clarkdale i5s have hyperthreading enabled, lynnfield i5s don't. This ends up looking like 4 cores for all i5s, but two of the Clarkdale cores are logical.



Edited, Sep 24th 2010 1:52am by bsphil
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Almalieque wrote:
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#14 Sep 24 2010 at 1:08 AM Rating: Good
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PerrinofSylph wrote:
high end i5 will compete with mid-high end i7 with single GPU, multi GPU it's arguable that the i7 is better with 2-4x 16x PCIe support. However there's proof that 8x pcie is plenty for current gen GPUs even in 4x Crossfire or SLI.

The biggest benefit is i7 has tri-channle ram.

Budget, go i5

Decent cash flow, go i7


8xx series i7's use dual channel memory and the same MB as i5. Performance wise they are no different than a 9xx series i7 of the same clock speed unless you want SLI or Crossfire.

However they don't overclock as well because Lynnfield uses lower voltages than Bloomfield.

With Sandy Bridge right around the corner it's a bad time to build a PC btw.

The Socket 1155 Sandy Bridge coming out later this year will basically be an upgraded 1156 with double speed DMI and PCIE 2.0. PCIE will be increased to 5gbs from 2.5gbs and the increased DMI speed will enable 6gbs SATA without needing to steal PCIE lanes. It will still be limited to 20 PCIE lanes and will have to drop to 2x8x for SLI and Crossfire however (although 8x on Sandy Bridge will basically be as fast as 16x on 1156 MBs is now, assuming your video card supports it)


Personally I am just going to hold on to i7 860 till Q4 2011 and build a Socket 2011 system (40 lane PCIE 3.0 and quad channel memory)



Edited, Sep 24th 2010 4:19am by Lobivopis
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#15 Sep 24 2010 at 1:14 AM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
You're both right and wrong. Kinda.

For desktops, the 7xx series i5s (Lynnfield) are quad core, the 6xx series (Clarkdale) are dual core. Clarkdale i5s have hyperthreading enabled, lynnfield i5s don't. This ends up looking like 4 cores for all i5s, but two of the Clarkdale cores are logical.



Edited, Sep 24th 2010 1:52am by bsphil


>_<
#16 Sep 24 2010 at 1:43 AM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
GusMorgan wrote:
I have a really hard time picking out a processor and motherboard too >_>

I know I want an i7 quad core. Got any tips on the different series and which to pick and what motherboard to match it with?
What's your budget? If you want an i7 and are willing to drop ~$500 on a mobo and CPU, I'd recommend this.


thanks! that was the pricerange i was looking for :)
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#17 Sep 24 2010 at 1:46 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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GusMorgan wrote:
bsphil wrote:
GusMorgan wrote:
I have a really hard time picking out a processor and motherboard too >_>

I know I want an i7 quad core. Got any tips on the different series and which to pick and what motherboard to match it with?
What's your budget? If you want an i7 and are willing to drop ~$500 on a mobo and CPU, I'd recommend this.
thanks! that was the pricerange i was looking for :)
Ought to serve you well, since the 950 just recently dropped like $200 in price. :P

Lobivopis wrote:
With Sandy Bridge right around the corner it's a bad time to build a PC btw.
Well... 3-6 months. That's a pretty big corner. By those standards, the replacement for Sandy Bridge is going to be a few corners away when Sandy Bridge first out. And by then all new CPUs will by default have 8 physical cores.




Edited, Sep 24th 2010 2:55am by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
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#18 Sep 24 2010 at 2:56 AM Rating: Decent
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The difference between an i5 and i7 for gaming is going to be soooo nominal, you'd be muich better off going with a i5-750/760, and use the money saved to buy a better GPU. The primary difference between a i5-750/760 and i-7s are HyperThreading and Dual Channel vs Triple Channel memory.

For those that don't know, HT is when the chip runs 4 more virtual threads, making it simulate a 8-core processor, which is pointless for gaming, and produces significantly more heat under load. Most games don't even utilizes 4 threads, much less 8. The difference between triple channel and dual channel is negligent as well, 4gb of memory is more than enough for gaming.. unless your encoding video, running paintshop, firefox, watching a blu-ray and etc simultaneously while playing FFXIV. Triple channel is the process of running memory in a series of 3, whether is be 3gb, 6gb, or 12gb.. you get slightly better performance, most of which won't apply to gaming.

I also happen to own both.. I have an i7-920 at 4.0, HD 5870 (875/1275), 6gb ram.. I've also recently built an i5-760 at 3.8, HD 5850 (890/1200), 4gb ram. Surprisingly.. the performance is very similar.. possibly only about a 5-10% difference at most for this game. As far as the benchmark scores, The i7-920 system scores ~5100, while the i5-760 system runs ~5000.

So in summary.. the difference between the two very nominal, and you're looking to save a couple hundred dollars, you would be much better off building a system around an i5-760.

Here's a link for a very good combo deal.. only $304 http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.492250

Edited, Sep 24th 2010 4:56am by zeruin
#19 Sep 24 2010 at 3:55 AM Rating: Good
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zeruin wrote:
The difference between an i5 and i7 for gaming is going to be soooo nominal, you'd be muich better off going with a i5-750/760, and use the money saved to buy a better GPU. The primary difference between a i5-750/760 and i-7s are HyperThreading and Dual Channel vs Triple Channel memory.



And higher stock clock speed, and turbo boost. Also 1156 i7's use dual channel memory. Not that dual channel vs triple channel makes any real world performance difference on a quad core CPU, because it doesn't.

Quote:
HT is when the chip runs 4 more virtual threads, making it simulate a 8-core processor, which is pointless for gaming, and produces significantly more heat under load.


Hyperthreading does not increase heat.

Edited, Sep 24th 2010 6:57am by Lobivopis

bsphil wrote:


Lobivopis wrote:
With Sandy Bridge right around the corner it's a bad time to build a PC btw.
Well... 3-6 months. That's a pretty big corner. By those standards, the replacement for Sandy Bridge is going to be a few corners away when Sandy Bridge first out.


Socket 1155 is supposed to be out before the end of 2010, Socket 2011 will be out Q4 2011.

Quote:
And by then all new CPUs will by default have 8 physical cores.


It would be a complete waste to have anything less than an 8 core CPU on quad channel memory anyway.

Edited, Sep 24th 2010 7:04am by Lobivopis
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#20 Sep 24 2010 at 5:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Lobivopis wrote:
Hyperthreading does not increase heat.

Lol.. get real dude.. HT increases temps 10-15C at full load. Not quite sure what you're trying to argue here, because you're clearly misinformed.
#21 Sep 24 2010 at 7:24 AM Rating: Decent
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I was going to correct some posters but lobivopus seems to be on top of it!

Edited, Sep 24th 2010 9:24am by Nyu
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#22 Sep 24 2010 at 8:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Lobivopis wrote:
PerrinofSylph wrote:
high end i5 will compete with mid-high end i7 with single GPU, multi GPU it's arguable that the i7 is better with 2-4x 16x PCIe support. However there's proof that 8x pcie is plenty for current gen GPUs even in 4x Crossfire or SLI.

The biggest benefit is i7 has tri-channle ram.

Budget, go i5

Decent cash flow, go i7


8xx series i7's use dual channel memory and the same MB as i5. Performance wise they are no different than a 9xx series i7 of the same clock speed unless you want SLI or Crossfire.


Sorry, you're correct. I always think of the i7 8xx series for p55 as i5 :p
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#23 Sep 24 2010 at 9:20 AM Rating: Decent
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zeruin wrote:
Lobivopis wrote:
Hyperthreading does not increase heat.

Lol.. get real dude.. HT increases temps 10-15C at full load. Not quite sure what you're trying to argue here, because you're clearly misinformed.


HT on or off and max I saw was a 5c difference on my i7 950, that's at stock clock with and aftermarket air cooler (which isn't one of the best, TT Frio). I'm not at home right now so I can't rerun 2x and post proof unfortunately.
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#24 Sep 24 2010 at 10:27 PM Rating: Default
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zeruin wrote:
Lobivopis wrote:
Hyperthreading does not increase heat.

Lol.. get real dude.. HT increases temps 10-15C at full load. Not quite sure what you're trying to argue here, because you're clearly misinformed.


If an application is not gaining performance from HT then why would HT increase heat?

If an application is gaining performance from HT they yes it should increase heat a little because the CPU is working harder.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#25 Sep 24 2010 at 10:38 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm still running a quad core with no issues. Current CPUs are never optimized for gaming.
#26 Sep 25 2010 at 1:24 AM Rating: Good
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The more correct comparison should be the platform that the chip is paired with.

i5 = 1156 chipset
i7 = 1156 and 1366

Each platform is geared to a different customer.

The i5 1156 platform has the widest coverage from the light users using i3 all the way to slightly heavy gamers with the i7.

The i7 on the 1366 platform is more geared towards hardcore gaming enthusiasts and graphics professionals. The usage of tri-channel memory and 2, 16x, lanes for graphics cards are what make this platform shine in the industry, but at the cost of a higher price.

There's a plethora of technical jargon that I could toss out there that separate the two chipsets and the CPU's, but it would end up confusing about 85% of the people so I'll leave things be. Honestly you won't notice anything different in this game with either chip.
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#27 Sep 25 2010 at 5:33 AM Rating: Good
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redpoop wrote:
ive read that FFXIV recommended i-7 cpus or higher on this forum but cant find any link for this info.


redpoop wrote:
someone link where FFXIV recommends an i7 or higher. the website on the FFXIV for the games min spec is way lower LOL


The Recommended System Specifications at the back of the Collector's Edition states:

OS: Windows 7 32-bit/64-bit
Processor: Intel Core i7 (2.66 GHz) or higher
Memory: 4 GB or more
Storage: Install - 15 GB or more, Download - 6 GB or more
Video: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 with 768 VRAM or equivalent
Sound: DirectSound compatible sound card (DirectX 9.0c or higher)
Internet: Broadband Internet connection
Resolution: 1280 x 720 or higher, 32-bit
DirectX: DirectX 9.0c
Controls: Mouse, Keyboard, Gamepad

There is a fine print underneath stating:
It is possible that the minimum and recommended specifications are not current. For the latest information, please visit FINALFANTASYXIV.COM

-----

For comparison between i5 and i7:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_i5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_i7

Edited: Added in the following Benchmark Comparison link:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html


Cheers~

Edited, Sep 25th 2010 8:25am by HalfLight
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#28 Sep 25 2010 at 9:28 AM Rating: Decent
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A little late to the game here, but if you are going the i7 route, find out if there is a microcenter in your area. You can get the 930 (in store only) for $200 instead of the usual $280+.

[link=http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0331303]

edit: LOL signature...

Edited, Sep 25th 2010 11:29am by Slatchmo
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