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#102 Sep 24 2010 at 11:28 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Nylianna wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Kachi wrote:
If you really think it's THAT bad, then you just haven't played it long enough to appreciate the things it does reasonably well. The game has plenty of weaknesses, but to say that it has no redeeming qualities other than good graphics is to tacitly request that your opinion not even be taken seriously.
Isn't that kinda unreasonable to allow with a game? "Yeah it kinda sucks but wait til you're about 8 hours in, then you'll start doing something interesting."
SO every other MMO is so much fun lvl 1-10?
It definitely should be. Not every MMO is fun the first x levels, but not every MMO succeeds either. The beginning of the game should be easy, entertaining, and quick. You should be learning the core functions of the game, and it should be fun. After that, you can start ratcheting up the difficulty and leave the player on his own, but the beginning of the game is SUPPOSED to be entertaining. It's called a hook.



Edited, Sep 25th 2010 12:29am by bsphil
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Almalieque wrote:
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#103 Sep 24 2010 at 11:31 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
Nylianna wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Kachi wrote:
If you really think it's THAT bad, then you just haven't played it long enough to appreciate the things it does reasonably well. The game has plenty of weaknesses, but to say that it has no redeeming qualities other than good graphics is to tacitly request that your opinion not even be taken seriously.
Isn't that kinda unreasonable to allow with a game? "Yeah it kinda sucks but wait til you're about 8 hours in, then you'll start doing something interesting."
SO every other MMO is so much fun lvl 1-10?
Yes, it definitely should be. The beginning of the game should be easy, entertaining, and quick. You should be learning the core functions of the game, and it should be fun. After that, you can start ratcheting up the difficulty and leave the player on his own, but the beginning of the game is SUPPOSED to be entertaining. It's called a hook.


I agree, but I think your definition of fun is different than mine. I don't call being handcuffed and babied through beginning content. FFXIV seems to let you develop and learn at your own pace. Much better than starting the game next to a dude waiting on you to spawn with a silly -!- over his head.
#104 Sep 24 2010 at 11:36 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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Nylianna wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Nylianna wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Kachi wrote:
If you really think it's THAT bad, then you just haven't played it long enough to appreciate the things it does reasonably well. The game has plenty of weaknesses, but to say that it has no redeeming qualities other than good graphics is to tacitly request that your opinion not even be taken seriously.
Isn't that kinda unreasonable to allow with a game? "Yeah it kinda sucks but wait til you're about 8 hours in, then you'll start doing something interesting."
SO every other MMO is so much fun lvl 1-10?
Yes, it definitely should be. The beginning of the game should be easy, entertaining, and quick. You should be learning the core functions of the game, and it should be fun. After that, you can start ratcheting up the difficulty and leave the player on his own, but the beginning of the game is SUPPOSED to be entertaining. It's called a hook.
I agree, but I think your definition of fun is different than mine. I don't call being handcuffed and babied through beginning content. FFXIV seems to let you develop and learn at your own pace. Much better than starting the game next to a dude waiting on you to spawn with a silly -!- over his head.
Monumentally EASY fix that allows for both types of people that takes literally seconds to write. Soon as you create your character, before you log in for the first time:

'Would you like to play through the tutorial before beginning?'

Yes? Bam, you're in. You're getting taught the basics of combat, town, crafting, etc. After the tutorial ends, you're on your own, and you leave with a very basic working knowledge of the game you just got dropped into.

No? Shazzam! You get dropped straight into the game. Get going, it's a big world out there.



Edited, Sep 25th 2010 12:37am by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
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#105 Sep 24 2010 at 11:41 PM Rating: Good
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I definitely don't object to that, but I'm not SE. They seem to things complicated and/or backwards just to say they did it. lol

Edited, Sep 25th 2010 1:42am by Nylianna
#106 Sep 24 2010 at 11:43 PM Rating: Good
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itslevi wrote:
This game is really bad. The people who are posting negative reviews aren't trolling- they wanted the game to be good just as much as anyone given they spent an extra $25 to get the Collector's Edition. But there's no defending this garbage. The "I don't want another WoW clone" camp seems to be overlooking the fact that this game's primary leveling mechanic, the levequests, are just direct knockoffs from WoW's daily quest mechanic, except even more unimaginative. How on earth is anybody defending this? Have any of you even done any local levequests? Sometimes they try to put a spin on "synth X, deliver to Y" by making it "go to Y, THEN synth X!" Holy crap you just blew my mind.

I mean the game's actually worse than FF11. They tried so hard to de-emphasize mob grinding that they marginalized combat altogether, which doesn't make any sense. The whole reason character development is supposed to feel rewarding is to see your character become stronger over time. Maybe if the tradeskill system was somehow so innovative and unique it could carry the game as some kind of economy-driven MMO, but seeing as how FF14's synthesis mechanic differs very little from FF11's "you have a chance to randomly fail synths, this chance goes down as your skill goes up" mechanic, I doubt that's going to be the case. More appalling is the lack of public chat channels or an auction house, which basically makes an in-game economy impossible to achieve. Does anyone here even know what ANYTHING is worth? Are you actually expected to scan every single player's bazaar to find items you might want, or get a vague idea of what it costs?

This game fails on a fundamental, philosophical level. This is in addition to its countless technical shortcomings that have been mentioned here and in other threads. The UI is so unresponsive and the whole game just feels like you're in a gigantic vat of invisible molasses. It's all the little things, things like how it takes almost 10 seconds for each ability you want to assign to your bars- which may seem insignificant but it basically makes remapping your binds a 20 minute chore (particularly inexcusable given that the "battle points" mechanic that restricts the number of abilities available to you at any one time means that at higher levels with multiple high level disciplines you would presumably want to do this a lot). Speaking of disciplines, why are there only 2 mage disciplines again? If the justification for having such a tight restriction on "vertical" character development (physical level) is supposed to be the high amount of "horizontal" character development that's possible in the game (different disciplines), then surely there's need to be more than just 2 caster disciplines given that some kind of hybrid "warrior mage" is assuredly going to be terrible (as they always are) and min-maxing your stats for your caster discipline (INT/MND/PIE) would make it unfeasible to develop physical DPS disciplines at all. Also making the player responsible for semi-permanent point allotment is insanely stupid. Not only is there no easily found explanation for what any of the stats do, but there's absolutely no resources on the specific, detailed mechanics on what stats do. There needs to be math available somewhere for players to make logical investments in their point allotment. Saying things like "piety increases magic accuracy" is all well and good, except that there's no explanation on how much magic accuracy a player needs or how the resist mechanic works at all for that matter. Is it like WoW, where it's a combination of your physical level relative to your target AND spell hit, or is it just your piety, or what? Withholding this kind of information is not acceptable when you expect your players to do their own stat budgeting.

There are no redeeming qualities to this game. The fact it has "good graphics" doesn't matter if the game world isn't interactive or fluid. It's 2010, there's college undergraduates who can make a game world look just as good. Not to mention the environment is so non-interactive (no jumping, no spells/abilities that affect the environment, etc) that even the graphics aren't really that great given that aesthetics alone is not the only criterion that any savvy player uses to evaluate graphics quality. Other considerations, like hardware requirements, matter too, especially so for an MMO when you need a large player base to make the game fundamentally sustainable.

Let me reiterate that NO ONE who has the game right now wanted it to be this bad. No one. This isn't Mystery Science Theatre 3000. We didn't rush to buy the Collector's Edition because we secretly expected the game to be bad so that we could post negative reviews for no other reason than to troll. But this game is SO BAD, I mean we're talking like a 1 out of 10, that the only people who could possibly try to defend this... and I've never used this word before in my life... are fanboys. Anyone who thinks that this game did anything right is just so blind that it borders on psychosis. And you're not doing yourselves any favors by not pressuring SE to fix this crap. I don't know if you people are aware, but there's a little thing called Cataclysm coming out very soon (rumored early November release date), and since the vast majority (75%+) of FF14's would-be player base also plays WoW... if this game isn't overhauled REAL soon, WoW will kill yet another MMO right in its infancy. It won't be like FF11's gradual decline with server merges, etc. It'll be an outright slaughter. At which point even the diehard fanboys will probably give up when they're chilling in Ul'dah all by themselves. Hey, on the bright side, at least then you definitely won't need a public chat channel.

Edited, Sep 25th 2010 12:52am by itslevi


This was everything I've thought. Well said.

I quit playing FFXI 3 years ago, and I've been playing WoW...WAITING for the next FF game. I spent a pile of cash on my pc, ordered the CE back in June, and I took time off work for the release.
I can't begin to describe the number of things I saw in Beta, thought to myself "That'll get fixed" and now here we are in the release and...nope, not fixed. The devs should have paid attention to the people giving their feedback in the Beta forums, and taken another 6 months to polish this rough stone.

Camera controls which are the most unintuitive ever (why not just use the ones like in FFXI that WORKED), no real chat channels, no auction house, a potentially immense number of bazaars for 'casual' players to search thru for HOURS. And... where are the mailboxes?
I have played every FF game made, and up til now, yea you could call me a fanboy.
From now on, just call me extremely disappointed.

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#107 Sep 24 2010 at 11:44 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Nylianna wrote:
I definitely don't object to that, but I'm not SE. They seem to things complicated and/or backwards just to say they did it. lol
That's kinda the whole problem. :\ Hence these threads.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
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#108 Sep 25 2010 at 12:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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bsphil wrote:
Nylianna wrote:
I definitely don't object to that, but I'm not SE. They seem to things complicated and/or backwards just to say they did it. lol
That's kinda the whole problem. :\ Hence these threads.


Not going to stop me from playing the game. It is the best option on the market, in my mind. I am burnt out after 4 years in a game that continues to diminish in fun and challenging gameplay.
#109 Sep 25 2010 at 12:15 AM Rating: Good
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My overall impression after two days of playing is that I have to agree with the people who are saying it shouldn't be out yet.

The whole "WoW clone" debate is passing silly. Yes, certain games have mimicked WoW so closely there was nothing to differentiate them and make them stand out as anything other than trying to make a few quick bucks off someone else's model. This does not mean that everything that resembles WoW is bad. Zone-wide channels help in group formation, and do so in a plethora of games.

Some kind of organization to trading, such as with an auction house (that even appeared in FFXI) is vital. When I was reading about the retainers I had visions of the bazaar from EQ1. What we have instead is a bunch of empty rooms that get crammed full of dummy NPCs. Going to the Market Wards is more like going to visit a warehouse where all the goods are still boxed up and there's no directory. Yeah, everything's there, but unless you have a clue where to look you're going to be completely lost. It would be more effective to park your main character next to the crafting guild with an open bazaar available and somehow direct people to your retainer if you didn't have what they were looking for. Functionality for that isn't fully implemented either and I doubt that's in the plans, unless you want to sit there and bark for people constantly. For a game that places so much emphasis on gathering and crafting the undeveloped trade system is absolutely crippling.

The truth of the matter is... as a player I don't want to deal with crafting. I want to dump my loot in a bucket and let someone else sort it out and get back to the adventure. If I wanted to be a carver or carpenter or something like that I'd actually go DO carpentry and actually make something. Going out and killing monsters and enjoying the setting/story is what it's supposed to be about. We're missing what have become basic amenities that would enable this.
#110 Sep 25 2010 at 1:12 AM Rating: Default
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Ahrounmoon wrote:
My overall impression after two days of playing is that I have to agree with the people who are saying it shouldn't be out yet.

The whole "WoW clone" debate is passing silly. Yes, certain games have mimicked WoW so closely there was nothing to differentiate them and make them stand out as anything other than trying to make a few quick bucks off someone else's model. This does not mean that everything that resembles WoW is bad. Zone-wide channels help in group formation, and do so in a plethora of games.

Some kind of organization to trading, such as with an auction house (that even appeared in FFXI) is vital. When I was reading about the retainers I had visions of the bazaar from EQ1. What we have instead is a bunch of empty rooms that get crammed full of dummy NPCs. Going to the Market Wards is more like going to visit a warehouse where all the goods are still boxed up and there's no directory. Yeah, everything's there, but unless you have a clue where to look you're going to be completely lost. It would be more effective to park your main character next to the crafting guild with an open bazaar available and somehow direct people to your retainer if you didn't have what they were looking for. Functionality for that isn't fully implemented either and I doubt that's in the plans, unless you want to sit there and bark for people constantly. For a game that places so much emphasis on gathering and crafting the undeveloped trade system is absolutely crippling.

The truth of the matter is... as a player I don't want to deal with crafting. I want to dump my loot in a bucket and let someone else sort it out and get back to the adventure. If I wanted to be a carver or carpenter or something like that I'd actually go DO carpentry and actually make something. Going out and killing monsters and enjoying the setting/story is what it's supposed to be about. We're missing what have become basic amenities that would enable this.


Its common sense this game shouldn't be out yet. I mean come on, copy and pasted terrain and NUMEROUS spelling errors. Not to mention the rest of the common problems. Sure this game COULD be fun. But as it is right now, the only reason to play is to get your character ready for when they fix it and actually have some fun.
#111 Sep 25 2010 at 4:12 AM Rating: Decent
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like i said before... WoW is not a true MMO. it might have MMO aspects but a true MMO it is not... It was a great game during the 4 years i played it, for reasons i can go into great detail with, but to keep this post as brief as possible... i will say that WoW borderlines a hack and slash type RPG. Most of its enjoyment came from the fact that you could just pick it up and go with ease. Why people keep comparing WoW with FFIV or FFXI is beyond my understanding.

Im gonna go on a limb here and say that FF games will not appeal to a broad range of gamers. I myself dont find any problems with a game that is marketed towards a niche audience. In fact all of the final fantasies up until this point have had a niche following. I would like to see final fantasy become a household name much like the Halo franchise, Warcraft/starcraft, or the EA sports conglomerate... but the reality is that not everyone wants to be a nerd/"fantasy" addict.

So for anyone that wants to continue complaining or compare about FFIV's shortcomings, just realize what you're getting yourself into. If you were a final fantasy fan from FF1, and have played every SE game since.. then this game is probably going to knock your sox off regardless of its flaws. But if you're just straggling into FF only recently, then you're obviously going to have reservations about everything about it. Either love it or hate it....
#112 Sep 25 2010 at 5:05 AM Rating: Decent
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to be honest i agree with most of the stuff this guy says.

the game can be frustrating since its using a design which is now nearly 7 yrs old.

There is 1 mob for every 10 players.

the game is laggy as **** server side.

you can solo Legion difficulty leve quests pretty much up to level 20.

Chatting to people in the game is a pain. and typing 2 names instead of one sucks.

Alt tab doesnt work.

they made this game an Ez-mode version of FFXI and lost pretty much everything that was good about FFXI and kept all the crap such as the UI style and chat system.

i think people have a right to be critical of a game and not call them a troll.

When you buy a game some as FF13 or Metal Gear Solid, why does it work from the box? why is it efficient to use the menus and control the character.

it seems that MMO's consider it ok to launch a broken game and very rough around the edges and fix it over the next 2 to 3 yrs
#113 Sep 25 2010 at 5:27 AM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
Put down your ego, and pick up a controller. Map your buttons to the classic JRPG style and play. You litterally will shut up about the UI at that point because you'll realize just how much it meshes. It coulden't be more ovious that SE was crafting this based off of a console releace RPG. (Unless you make the UI a bunch of named attacks in a blue box scrolling up and down instead of left to right.) I mean, did the ATP gague not tip you guys off?

I have a controller. It has over a hundred more buttons on it than yours does and I can use it to type as well. It's called a keyboard. It couldn't be more obvious that developing a console game for a PC is not working for SE. Other companies have no problems porting from console to PC. The issue is that SE is lazy or cheap(maybe both, but you can take your pick) and doesn't want to invest in making this game work well on all platforms. It is the exact reason why you have cross-regional servers. It is cheaper to mash everyone together regardless of region.
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Should we as players be holding MMOs to a higher standard now that the genera is more flushed out and companies are getting more experienced in the field? Perhaps. But it's also a safe bet to wait on the developments until you get feedback, especialy if you are trying to take something in a new direction.

Two things to note here:
Firstly, people have been using keyboard and mouse to control their PCs for decades now. This has nothing at all to do with the MMORPG genre and everything to do with bad logic and development. Secondly, you say it's a safe bet to wait on developments. Might I remind you that this game has been in development for 6 years now. SE received plenty of feedback during alpha and beta testing. Very little if any of that has made it's way into the release version. This is not to say that the necessary changes will not be added in the future, but it would have made more sense to implement these things from the start. They overlooked some very basic and simple ideas. Fundamentals that really should have been thought of and included from the start.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#114 Sep 25 2010 at 6:08 AM Rating: Good
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xGaelx wrote:
wait until you get strong and can control the elements. Then i'm sure you'll see your flash.


when I stack burn > profundity > fire and crit... it makes a very nice lightshow.

And does mega damage
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#115 Sep 25 2010 at 6:19 AM Rating: Good
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taruzeus wrote:

you can solo Legion difficulty leve quests pretty much up to level 20.


yeah... I bet you soloed burning down the house from skull valley on legion difficulty. What level where you when you did it?

Just did a leve at camp horizon - on 1 star with three people LNC 14, CON 15, and CON 17 - and it was no walk in the park.

Here is a pic of a three star leve at camp tranquil - we had 6 people in the party - tank at 13 and healer at 14 everyone else around 10

Screenshot


There is a curve where things are easy in every MMO. Try leaving bearded rock buddy.
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#116 Sep 25 2010 at 8:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Honestly, anyone who approached XIV expecting a WoW clone and are raging because it isn't a WoW clone can go die in a fire.


i don't think a lot of the people are drawing comparisons to WoW because they want a WoW "clone", but because they really don't have a lot of experience with other MMOs to draw conclusions from.

Quest feathers, NPC markers, etc. let's talk about this. Back in the day you had small platform RPG games that had maybe 10 NPCs in a town, a town area that covered maybe 300 square "steps" of movable area - quests were rather obtuse, leaving you to explore for a bit to find the person or object you were looking for. BAM, flash forward to 2010. MMORPGS are GINORMOUS, with game worlds occupying miles of terrain, cities encompassing thousands of steps worth of real estate, and towns typically hosting HUNDREDS of NPCS. It is not "WoW" like to put <Weapons Merchant> under their name, or putting a quest book, feather, ring, star wars symbol, w/e over their heads for quest markers. Every single MMO I've played since FFXI was released has had something to this effect.

It is not "WoW" like to have a diverse chat system built into the game. Actually, I'm going to stop here. I feel like Galileo trying to convince the church that the Earth is not the center of the Universe. I think you get the analogy here.
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#117 Sep 25 2010 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
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itslevi wrote:
This game is really bad. The people who are posting negative reviews aren't trolling- they wanted the game to be good just as much as anyone given they spent an extra $25 to get the Collector's Edition. But there's no defending this garbage. The "I don't want another WoW clone" camp seems to be overlooking the fact that this game's primary leveling mechanic, the levequests, are just direct knockoffs from WoW's daily quest mechanic, except even more unimaginative. How on earth is anybody defending this? Have any of you even done any local levequests? Sometimes they try to put a spin on "synth X, deliver to Y" by making it "go to Y, THEN synth X!" Holy crap you just blew my mind.

I mean the game's actually worse than FF11. They tried so hard to de-emphasize mob grinding that they marginalized combat altogether, which doesn't make any sense. The whole reason character development is supposed to feel rewarding is to see your character become stronger over time. Maybe if the tradeskill system was somehow so innovative and unique it could carry the game as some kind of economy-driven MMO, but seeing as how FF14's synthesis mechanic differs very little from FF11's "you have a chance to randomly fail synths, this chance goes down as your skill goes up" mechanic, I doubt that's going to be the case. More appalling is the lack of public chat channels or an auction house, which basically makes an in-game economy impossible to achieve. Does anyone here even know what ANYTHING is worth? Are you actually expected to scan every single player's bazaar to find items you might want, or get a vague idea of what it costs?

This game fails on a fundamental, philosophical level. This is in addition to its countless technical shortcomings that have been mentioned here and in other threads. The UI is so unresponsive and the whole game just feels like you're in a gigantic vat of invisible molasses. It's all the little things, things like how it takes almost 10 seconds for each ability you want to assign to your bars- which may seem insignificant but it basically makes remapping your binds a 20 minute chore (particularly inexcusable given that the "battle points" mechanic that restricts the number of abilities available to you at any one time means that at higher levels with multiple high level disciplines you would presumably want to do this a lot). Speaking of disciplines, why are there only 2 mage disciplines again? If the justification for having such a tight restriction on "vertical" character development (physical level) is supposed to be the high amount of "horizontal" character development that's possible in the game (different disciplines), then surely there's need to be more than just 2 caster disciplines given that some kind of hybrid "warrior mage" is assuredly going to be terrible (as they always are) and min-maxing your stats for your caster discipline (INT/MND/PIE) would make it unfeasible to develop physical DPS disciplines at all. Also making the player responsible for semi-permanent point allotment is insanely stupid. Not only is there no easily found explanation for what any of the stats do, but there's absolutely no resources on the specific mechanics on how the stats behave. There needs to be math available somewhere for players to make logical investments in their point allotment. Saying things like "piety increases magic accuracy" is all well and good, except that there's no explanation on how much magic accuracy a player needs or how the resist mechanic works at all for that matter. Is it like WoW, where it's a combination of your physical level relative to your target AND spell hit, or is it just your piety, or what? Withholding this kind of information is not acceptable when you expect your players to do their own stat budgeting.

There are no redeeming qualities to this game. The fact it has "good graphics" doesn't matter if the game world isn't fluid. It's 2010, there's college undergraduates who can make a game world look just as good. Not to mention the environment is so non-interactive (no jumping, no spells/abilities that affect the environment, etc) that even the graphics aren't really that great given that aesthetics alone is not the only criterion that any savvy player uses to evaluate graphics quality. Other considerations, like hardware requirements, matter too, especially so for an MMO when you need a large player base to make the game fundamentally sustainable.

Let me reiterate that NO ONE who has the game right now wanted it to be this bad. No one. This isn't Mystery Science Theatre 3000. We didn't rush to buy the Collector's Edition because we secretly expected the game to be bad so that we could post negative reviews for no other reason than to troll. But this game is SO BAD, I mean we're talking like a 1 out of 10, that the only people who could possibly try to defend this... and I've never used this word before in my life... are fanboys. Anyone who thinks that this game did anything right is just so blind that it borders on psychosis. And you're not doing yourselves any favors by not pressuring SE to fix this crap. I don't know if you people are aware, but there's a little thing called Cataclysm coming out very soon (rumored early November release date), and since the vast majority (75%+) of FF14's would-be player base also plays WoW... if this game isn't overhauled REAL soon, WoW will kill yet another MMO right in its infancy. It won't be like FF11's gradual decline with server merges, etc. It'll be an outright slaughter. At which point even the diehard fanboys will probably give up when they're chilling in Ul'dah all by themselves. Hey, on the bright side, at least then you definitely won't need a public chat channel.

Edited, Sep 25th 2010 1:59am by itslevi

I wish I could forum craft as good as you. I agree with this 110%. You win.
#118 Sep 25 2010 at 10:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Oddly enough the more I hear people hate this game, the more I can't wait to play it. I like to form my own opinions on the game, and from what I have seen it looks very very good. What people need to realize is that, looking past the little errors now will reveal a promising game. Yes, you have to look past errors, because SE will fix them. I'm surprised so many people expected a release similar to a expansion release for a MMO that has been around for 4+ years.

This game looks good, because none of the problems are groundbreaking or deal breaking.
#119 Sep 25 2010 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
Personally I'm in love with the new game. The UI is a bit clunky and can be revised, but it doesn't suck like some other games do. I've been playing MMO's since FFXI and WOW, and personally I like this better than wow. WOW had it's share of massive problems as well, if you don't remember. They have updated it ohhh idk like 500 times. No MMO is perfect on the day of release, they tried something new and I commend them for it.

SE is one of the biggest companies there are, it won't take long for them to see what people don't like about the game and fix it. Also, genius, you probably don't know this cause your too busy crying, but you can't write a fix for a game overnight, there's probably 5 million pages of code for this game. One mess up on a programmer can crash the entire game. I would much rather them take their time and in a month or so when they have the code written to fix what is wrong, implement it.

Not even the WOW AH had a search function on release. In case you have forgotten OP.
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#120 Sep 25 2010 at 10:44 AM Rating: Decent
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my spider sence tells me the op "played ffxi" the same way he played ffxi.. a few hours and ragequit


imo that doensnt count as experiance
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#121 Sep 25 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Nylianna wrote:
Oddly enough the more I hear people hate this game, the more I can't wait to play it. I like to form my own opinions on the game, and from what I have seen it looks very very good. What people need to realize is that, looking past the little errors now will reveal a promising game. Yes, you have to look past errors, because SE will fix them. I'm surprised so many people expected a release similar to a expansion release for a MMO that has been around for 4+ years.

This game looks good, because none of the problems are groundbreaking or deal breaking.


Totally agree and rate up. Welcome to scholar :)
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#122 Sep 25 2010 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Galkaholics wrote:
my spider sence tells me the op "played ffxi" the same way he played ffxi.. a few hours and ragequit


imo that doensnt count as experiance


You're probably right. As I pointed out way back on page one, he has some good points, but 90% of what people complain FFXIV lacks are things FFXI also lacks. There are certainly some things that XIV desperately needs like a mail system, a retainer search/auction house, ability to restore MP in the field by resting or MP regen, etc. But at the same time, many aspects of XIV (most of the UI is resizable or movable, built in teleports for all characters, no "zoning" anymore) is an improvement on XI.

I'm sure they'll add the stuff that the game is truly -needs- at some point in the future.

Edited, Sep 25th 2010 2:58pm by Mikhalia
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#123 Sep 25 2010 at 11:16 AM Rating: Good
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measureups wrote:
Quest feathers, NPC markers, etc. let's talk about this. Back in the day you had small platform RPG games that had maybe 10 NPCs in a town, a town area that covered maybe 300 square "steps" of movable area - quests were rather obtuse, leaving you to explore for a bit to find the person or object you were looking for. BAM, flash forward to 2010. MMORPGS are GINORMOUS, with game worlds occupying miles of terrain, cities encompassing thousands of steps worth of real estate, and towns typically hosting HUNDREDS of NPCS. It is not "WoW" like to put <Weapons Merchant> under their name, or putting a quest book, feather, ring, star wars symbol, w/e over their heads for quest markers. Every single MMO I've played since FFXI was released has had something to this effect.

It is not "WoW" like to have a diverse chat system built into the game. Actually, I'm going to stop here. I feel like Galileo trying to convince the church that the Earth is not the center of the Universe. I think you get the analogy here.


You bring up a good point about game worlds getting larger and larger and thus finding NPCs becomes more difficult. One solution is to incorporate the shop in the name of the NPC. Another is to put giant green arrows above NPCs heads. Those aren't the only solutions. In FFXIV there are signs above the merchants and symbols on the map. There are also pretty obvious clues nearby. Is that a stack of wood next to the merchant NPC? It's probably a lumber shop. I find the game much more immersible with these more life-like signs rather than green arrows. And regarding quest NPCs, we have a journal with their exact location included. Again, I prefer opening a journal to view my objectives rather than highlights on the mini-map.

And do we really want global chat channels? In LoTRO they were spammed with political mud-slinging, your mama jokes, etc. That totally added to my gaming experience. But really those channels were just permanently muted. A lot of good that "diverse" chat system did.
#124 Sep 25 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Default
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#125 Sep 25 2010 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
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Hydragyrum wrote:
measureups wrote:
Quest feathers, NPC markers, etc. let's talk about this. Back in the day you had small platform RPG games that had maybe 10 NPCs in a town, a town area that covered maybe 300 square "steps" of movable area - quests were rather obtuse, leaving you to explore for a bit to find the person or object you were looking for. BAM, flash forward to 2010. MMORPGS are GINORMOUS, with game worlds occupying miles of terrain, cities encompassing thousands of steps worth of real estate, and towns typically hosting HUNDREDS of NPCS. It is not "WoW" like to put <Weapons Merchant> under their name, or putting a quest book, feather, ring, star wars symbol, w/e over their heads for quest markers. Every single MMO I've played since FFXI was released has had something to this effect.

It is not "WoW" like to have a diverse chat system built into the game. Actually, I'm going to stop here. I feel like Galileo trying to convince the church that the Earth is not the center of the Universe. I think you get the analogy here.


You bring up a good point about game worlds getting larger and larger and thus finding NPCs becomes more difficult. One solution is to incorporate the shop in the name of the NPC. Another is to put giant green arrows above NPCs heads. Those aren't the only solutions. In FFXIV there are signs above the merchants and symbols on the map. There are also pretty obvious clues nearby. Is that a stack of wood next to the merchant NPC? It's probably a lumber shop. I find the game much more immersible with these more life-like signs rather than green arrows. And regarding quest NPCs, we have a journal with their exact location included. Again, I prefer opening a journal to view my objectives rather than highlights on the mini-map.

And do we really want global chat channels? In LoTRO they were spammed with political mud-slinging, your mama jokes, etc. That totally added to my gaming experience. But really those channels were just permanently muted. A lot of good that "diverse" chat system did.


your style of game play is supported in WoW, LoTRO, EQ2, SWG, or whatever else. You can actively shut those things off, but to leave them completely out of the game shows me the dev team wasn't interested in appealing to anybody but the sadists. this is your cup of tea, but i for don't require complete immersion to enjoy a game.

same deal with the chat channels. in my experience, you can build chat channels around level range, most higher level chat channels worked great. occasionally you would get some epeen swingage but for the most part it was a place for those who were serious about the game to form pick up raids, instances, and general discussion about the game.

again, this is something that can be turned off. why SE completely left this stuff out of the game is something i'll probably never understand, and they themselves don't seem to care either.
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#126 Sep 25 2010 at 12:35 PM Rating: Excellent
I think what's so frustrating, is this game is bordering on being very good, and the things hindering it would be quick fixes. Like others have said, people are trying to like this game, see what's there, but if they would just alter a couple things, they'd enjoy it even more. The majority of these things are sadly things that should flow well. Ya you can argue, the controller is better than the keyboard, but fact is, certain things are still better with the mouse in terms of targeting at certain times, or at are still laggy even with a controller in hand.

You have any idea how much more enjoyable this would be if everything just flowed seamlessly through menu's, crafting, etc. Keep the menus as are, but for the love of god make them work as is. Crafting one item takes 5 mins to set up (slight exaggeration, but it's still ridiculous), even gathering items, everything is just so delayed. I'm getting great FPS, in a unpopulated area, connections great, so this is all in the programming. Gathering is fun, but speed it up man!

The most common complaints about this game are all interface/UI related, and let's face it, it's a HUGE number of people complaining about it. If they would just fix it, they'd probably appease 90% of the complainers. As others have said, if you think the UI is great as is, you have serious issues and believe that SE can do no wrong. I'm not even asking for an overhaul, I can navigate it fine, but I just can't navigate it quickly enough.

Stuff such as Leve's, lack of certain jobs, quests, story lines, whatever, they'll come with time, I know how MMO's start, and it's usually like this. Content will flood the game over time and in 5 years people will be complaining that there's too much to do and the game is a huge time sink again.

Overall, playing with friends, we're having fun, definitely enjoying partying up, but it would turn that fun up another notch with a smooth flowing UI. Also, as previously mentioned, enough with the WoW clone comments. We're asking for a fluid UI, not something retarded that you people with an IQ of 60 think is original and just requires time to get used to. It took me 5 mins to get used it, I get how it works, it's not complicated, but if I click on something, I don't want to wait 10-15 secs for a little box to appear.
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#127 Sep 25 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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measureups wrote:

your style of game play is supported in WoW, LoTRO, EQ2, SWG, or whatever else. You can actively shut those things off, but to leave them completely out of the game shows me the dev team wasn't interested in appealing to anybody but the sadists. this is your cup of tea, but i for don't require complete immersion to enjoy a game.


Well apparently your style of game play isn't supported in FFXIV. I'm ok with that.
#128 Sep 25 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:

You have any idea how much more enjoyable this would be if everything just flowed seamlessly through menu's, crafting, etc. Keep the menus as are, but for the love of god make them work as is. Crafting one item takes 5 mins to set up (slight exaggeration, but it's still ridiculous), even gathering items, everything is just so delayed. I'm getting great FPS, in a unpopulated area, connections great, so this is all in the programming. Gathering is fun, but speed it up man!

The most common complaints about this game are all interface/UI related, and let's face it, it's a HUGE number of people complaining about it. If they would just fix it, they'd probably appease 90% of the complainers. As others have said, if you think the UI is great as is, you have serious issues and believe that SE can do no wrong. I'm not even asking for an overhaul, I can navigate it fine, but I just can't navigate it quickly enough.

Stuff such as Leve's, lack of certain jobs, quests, story lines, whatever, they'll come with time, I know how MMO's start, and it's usually like this. Content will flood the game over time and in 5 years people will be complaining that there's too much to do and the game is a huge time sink again.


The thing is... we told them about all this in the Alpha and the Beta. They thanked us profusely for all our comments and feedback. I think it will only eventually sink in for them, when a good percentage of people play for a few months and quit.
I'm going to stick it out and play very casually, see what things change over the first months. I've been waiting for this game for too many years, and spent too much money on my pc to NOT play it. If they don't add an ah, mail system, better chat channels (ok I'll stop there before I add the 20 other things on my list) then I'll make the decision.
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#129 Sep 25 2010 at 1:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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I just want to talk now. I don't have a point or an angle, I just want to say what I like and dislike about this game.

I want to love this game, I really do. So far, I only like it. I just feel like it needs a lot of improvement, mostly the same gripes as everyone else. The UI, really sucks. It has potential, but something needs to be done to make it more usable. It's incredibly... Difficult to work around. It's unfriendly, and it seems like there are easy ways that SE could make it a whole lot easier to use. On a lighter note, I LOVE LOVE LOVE the class/armoury system. It's awesome, I love it, I want to make babies with it, <3. But right now, the drawbacks really suck. Even something as simple as the map sucks. Why can't I click and drag to move around my map? In this generation of gaming, why are such basic things left out? I know it's because they are designing it for the PS3 as well, but honestly, it wouldn't be awful if they gave PC and PS3's different interfaces, or at least slightly different. They should give us total control over keymapping. But... I'll keep playing, because I am optimistic about the future of the game.
#130 Sep 25 2010 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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All I'm going to say is that while an arguably unimpressive beginning to the game deserves a sour opinion, it in no way makes the entire game completely irredeemable.
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#131 Sep 25 2010 at 7:07 PM Rating: Good
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balishag wrote:
i will say that WoW borderlines a hack and slash type RPG.
That is all online, making it a borderline hack and slash type MMORPG.
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#132 Sep 25 2010 at 7:10 PM Rating: Default
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bsphil wrote:
balishag wrote:
i will say that WoW borderlines a hack and slash type RPG.
That is all online, making it a borderline hack and slash type MMORPG.

Its funny how everyone wants something different from wow and then when there is they blast ti for not being wow.
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#133 Sep 25 2010 at 8:16 PM Rating: Good
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thehellfire wrote:
bsphil wrote:
balishag wrote:
i will say that WoW borderlines a hack and slash type RPG.
That is all online, making it a borderline hack and slash type MMORPG.

Its funny how everyone wants something different from wow and then when there is they blast ti for not being wow.


I think what bsphil is trying to point out is that the person he's quoting has convinced himself that WoW doesn't meet some magical definition for MMORPG that he's invented. When you get right down to it, text-based MUDs were MMORPGs because they were multiplayer role-playing games with a lot of people online concurrently and able to interact with each other to accomplish goals.
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#134 Sep 25 2010 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
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thehellfire wrote:
bsphil wrote:
balishag wrote:
i will say that WoW borderlines a hack and slash type RPG.
That is all online, making it a borderline hack and slash type MMORPG.

Its funny how everyone wants something different from wow and then when there is they blast ti for not being wow.


There's a huge difference between thoughtfully being different to be innovative, and being different to be different regardless of whether being different in this way is a good idea. IMHO, the majority of FFXIV is the latter, regrettably.

And really, asking for reasonable functionality != World of Warcraft. Could you kool-aid types please find a new rally cry?

Edited, Sep 25th 2010 10:25pm by hexaemeron
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#135 Sep 25 2010 at 9:03 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Nylianna wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Kachi wrote:
If you really think it's THAT bad, then you just haven't played it long enough to appreciate the things it does reasonably well. The game has plenty of weaknesses, but to say that it has no redeeming qualities other than good graphics is to tacitly request that your opinion not even be taken seriously.
Isn't that kinda unreasonable to allow with a game? "Yeah it kinda sucks but wait til you're about 8 hours in, then you'll start doing something interesting."
SO every other MMO is so much fun lvl 1-10?
It definitely should be. Not every MMO is fun the first x levels, but not every MMO succeeds either. The beginning of the game should be easy, entertaining, and quick. You should be learning the core functions of the game, and it should be fun. After that, you can start ratcheting up the difficulty and leave the player on his own, but the beginning of the game is SUPPOSED to be entertaining. It's called a hook.


The funny thing is that western MMO developers are increasing realizing that the lower-level experience doesn't need to be and probably shouldn't be boring.

I mean, I hate to bring up WoW on this forum, but just look at the lower-level changes being implemented in Cataclysm, which are based around the knowledge that just auto-attacking or spamming your only spell for the first few levels isn't particularly fun.
#136 Sep 25 2010 at 9:12 PM Rating: Decent
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As someone who's been out of the loop for awhile, you're all being fairly cordial about this. So kudos.

I do not have the game, but I'd like to make two responses to the OP:

In regards to the UI Design.
One: SE has been responsive in the past to feedback regarding its utilitarian design choices (to varying levels of haste.) I would not despair indefinitely. Keep up constructive criticism and change my come.
Two: Good design is purposive. Without actually looking at the menus, myself, I do theorize that perhaps SE made the UI to be drawn out for something to come down the road. Perhaps they do not want gamers to access things with speed. There could be many rationales for this. Preventing erroneous interactions with objects? Opening up space in the menu strings for other options in the future? A design choice made for the Playstation 3 crowd?

These are just things to think about.

In regards to all other comments.
It sounds like XIV is shaping up to be a game made by the same people who made XI. In other words... Square Enix's signature style/philosophy on MMO design. I would accept it as part of what makes Final Fantasy XIV a Final Fantasy MMO, versus, criticizing it for disliking it. That's akin to saying Christianity is great except for that Jesus guy.

There are certain cores which aren't on the table for change.
#137 Sep 25 2010 at 9:22 PM Rating: Good
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Nonagon wrote:
Two: Good design is purposive. Without actually looking at the menus, myself, I do theorize that perhaps SE made the UI to be drawn out for something to come down the road. Perhaps they do not want gamers to access things with speed.


Deliberately designing the UI to be a hindrance to players is pretty much by definition not good design, however.
#138 Sep 25 2010 at 9:27 PM Rating: Decent
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BastokFL wrote:
Nonagon wrote:
Two: Good design is purposive. Without actually looking at the menus, myself, I do theorize that perhaps SE made the UI to be drawn out for something to come down the road. Perhaps they do not want gamers to access things with speed.


Deliberately designing the UI to be a hindrance to players is pretty much by definition not good design, however.


A hindrance is not a bad thing. It's just an obstruction, to be circumnavigated (if you want to, of course.) A "hindrance" is not bad design, innately. I recall one web programmer who designed his website upside down so that you'd have to focus to read it.

In print: It's not uncommon for designers to integrate "pause spreads" that break up content for the sake of enlivening the experience. Same idea. In theory, of course.

Edited, Sep 25th 2010 11:28pm by Nonagon

Edited, Sep 25th 2010 11:30pm by Nonagon
#139 Sep 25 2010 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
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hexaemeron wrote:
itslevi wrote:
This game is really bad. The people who are posting negative reviews aren't trolling- they wanted the game to be good just as much as anyone given they spent an extra $25 to get the Collector's Edition. But there's no defending this garbage. The "I don't want another WoW clone" camp seems to be overlooking the fact that this game's primary leveling mechanic, the levequests, are just direct knockoffs from WoW's daily quest mechanic, except even more unimaginative. How on earth is anybody defending this? Have any of you even done any local levequests? Sometimes they try to put a spin on "synth X, deliver to Y" by making it "go to Y, THEN synth X!" Holy crap you just blew my mind.

I mean the game's actually worse than FF11. They tried so hard to de-emphasize mob grinding that they marginalized combat altogether, which doesn't make any sense. The whole reason character development is supposed to feel rewarding is to see your character become stronger over time. Maybe if the tradeskill system was somehow so innovative and unique it could carry the game as some kind of economy-driven MMO, but seeing as how FF14's synthesis mechanic differs very little from FF11's "you have a chance to randomly fail synths, this chance goes down as your skill goes up" mechanic, I doubt that's going to be the case. More appalling is the lack of public chat channels and an auction house, which basically makes an in-game economy impossible to achieve. Does anyone here even know what ANYTHING is worth? Are you exactly expected to scan every single player's bazaar to find items you might want?

This game fails on a fundamental, philosophical level. This is in addition to its countless technical shortcomings that have been mentioned here and in other threads. The UI is so unresponsive and the whole game just feels like you're in a gigantic vat of invisible molasses. It's all the little things, things like how it takes almost 10 seconds for each ability you want to assign to your bars- which may seem insignificant but it basically makes remapping your binds a 30 minute chore (particularly inexcusable given that the "battle points" mechanic that restricts the number of abilities available to you at any one time means that at higher levels with multiple high level disciplines you would presumably want to do this a lot). And speaking of disciplines, why are there only 2 mage disciplines again? If the justification for having such a low restriction on "vertical" character development (physical level) is supposed to be the high amount of "horizontal" character development that's possible in the game, then surely there's need to be more than just 2 caster disciplines given that some kind of hybrid "warrior mage" is assuredly going to be terrible (as they always are) and min-maxing your stats for your caster discipline (INT/MND/PIE) would make it unfeasible to develop physical DPS disciplines at all. Also putting the responsibility of semi-permanent point allotment onto the player is insanely stupid. Not only is there no easily found explanation for what any of the stats do, but there's absolutely no resources on the specific mechanics on what stats do. There needs to be math available somewhere for players to make logical investments in their point allotment. Saying things like "piety increases magic accuracy" is all well and good, except that there's no explanation on how much magic accuracy a player needs or how the resist mechanic works at all for that matter. Is it like WoW, where it's a combination of your physical level relative to your target AND spell hit, or is it just your piety, or what? Withholding this kind of information is not acceptable when you expect your players to do their own stat budgeting.

There are no redeeming qualities to this game. The fact it has "good graphics" doesn't matter if the game world isn't interactive or fluid. It's 2010, there's college undergraduates who can make a game world look just as good. Not to mention the environment is so non-interactive (no jumping, no spells/abilities that affect the environment, etc) that even the graphics aren't really that great given that aesthetics alone is not the only criterion that any savvy player uses to evaluate graphics quality. Other considerations, like hardware requirements, matter too, especially so for an MMO when you need a large player base to make the game fundamentally sustainable.

Let me reiterate that NO ONE who has the game right now wanted it to be this bad. No one. This isn't Mystery Science Theatre 3000. We didn't rush to buy the Collector's Edition because we secretly expected the game to be bad so that we could post negative reviews for no other reason than to troll. But this game is SO BAD, I mean we're talking like a 1 out of 10, that the only people who could possibly try to defend this... and I've never used this word before in my life... are fanboys. Anyone who thinks that this game did anything right is just so blind that it borders on psychosis. And you're not doing yourselves any favors by not pressuring SE to fix this crap. I don't know if you people are aware, but there's a little thing called Cataclysm coming out very soon (rumored early November release date), and since the vast majority (75%+) of FF14's would-be player base also plays WoW... if this game isn't overhauled REAL soon, WoW will kill yet another MMO right in its infancy. It won't be like FF11's gradual decline with server merges, etc. It'll be an outright slaughter. At which point even the diehard fanboys will probably give up when they're chilling in Ul'dah all by themselves. Hey, on the bright side, at least then you definitely won't need a public chat channel.


QFT. I completely agree with -everything- you said. I apologize in advance for the unfortunate caterwauling you're going to receive for it.


This was an excellent post. Very well thought out and I couldn't agree with you more.
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#140 Sep 25 2010 at 9:38 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Nonagon wrote:
A hindrance is not a bad thing. It's just an obstruction, to be circumnavigated (if you want to, of course.) A "hindrance" is not bad design, innately. I recall one web programmer who designed his website upside down so that you'd have to focus to read it.

In print: It's not uncommon for designers to integrate "pause spreads" that break up content for the sake of enlivening the experience. Same idea. In theory, of course.
For an interface? Yes, that's an innately awful thing for a game. Why would you ever decide to make the interface purposefully obtuse? SE wants you to be playing for years, the UI has to be quick and intuitive.
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#141 Sep 25 2010 at 9:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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The UI reminds me of something from personal experience. A developer asked the sales people what features they would like in the web interface. After several meetings, it was clear, that this was a horrible idea to ask them. None of them could properly explain what they wanted exactly. Towards the end I was convinced that they simply wanted something that generated the least amount of phone calls or bad feedback.

At least they had the last part correct.
#142 Sep 25 2010 at 10:01 PM Rating: Good
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#143 Sep 25 2010 at 10:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Two points I just figured I'd bring up:

FFXI had a program, the name of which was "Windower". What this program did, among other things; its chief feature... was allowing the game to be played in full screen mode without removing the ability to alt-tab.

What the players said to SE: "We want a Windower"

What we got: The ability to play in a window, and full screen STILL crashes the game.

What was another feature that people asked for in FFXI? Instances.

What we wanted was the ability to create copies of highly desired zones, to alleviate competition or bottlenecking over popular events.

Now, in XIV, we get instances. Areas of the game that only exist for the purposes of storytelling.

The point I'm getting at here, is that there's some HUGE GAP between "What we want" and "What SE thinks we want". I just wish that SE would actually take the time to ask us what we want... and then LISTEN, not skim over what we want and convey the general gist of it to their devs.

You know that old game, telephone? The one where you whisper something in someone's ear, and they whisper it into someone else's hear, and so on, and you find out that the longer it goes on, the more the message changes? That's how I feel like it is to talk to SE.

I mean, they say they listen, and indeed they do, but the problem is that the message isn't getting through. If we asked SE to give us a million bucks, I'm pretty sure the next patch would have an event wherein our character gets trampled by a horde of male deer.

SE has offices in California, and I -assume- the people that work there speak English, right? So why don't the people in California look into the concerns of English speaking players in Canada, the US, and Europe, and relay player concerns to SE Japan? Is it just that they don't have anyone who listens, or does the ball just get dropped, or is SE Japan just willfully ignoring the message?

Sometimes I ask myself, at the end of the day, beyond making money, what is the more important goal for SE: Is it creating a product their customers like or is it creating a product that THEY like? Is it listening to their customers and taking their ideas under consideration, or do they just wish we'd shut up and go away? (And by go away, I mean buy their product whether we like it or not)
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#144 Sep 25 2010 at 10:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Two points I just figured I'd bring up:

FFXI had a program, the name of which was "Windower". What this program did, among other things; its chief feature... was allowing the game to be played in full screen mode without removing the ability to alt-tab.

What the players said to SE: "We want a Windower"

What we got: The ability to play in a window, and full screen STILL crashes the game.

What was another feature that people asked for in FFXI? Instances.

What we wanted was the ability to create copies of highly desired zones, to alleviate competition or bottlenecking over popular events.

Now, in XIV, we get instances. Areas of the game that only exist for the purposes of storytelling.

The point I'm getting at here, is that there's some HUGE GAP between "What we want" and "What SE thinks we want". I just wish that SE would actually take the time to ask us what we want... and then LISTEN, not skim over what we want and convey the general gist of it to their devs.

You know that old game, telephone? The one where you whisper something in someone's ear, and they whisper it into someone else's hear, and so on, and you find out that the longer it goes on, the more the message changes? That's how I feel like it is to talk to SE.

I mean, they say they listen, and indeed they do, but the problem is that the message isn't getting through. If we asked SE to give us a million bucks, I'm pretty sure the next patch would have an event wherein our character gets trampled by a horde of male deer.

SE has offices in California, and I -assume- the people that work there speak English, right? So why don't the people in California look into the concerns of English speaking players in Canada, the US, and Europe, and relay player concerns to SE Japan? Is it just that they don't have anyone who listens, or does the ball just get dropped, or is SE Japan just willfully ignoring the message?

Sometimes I ask myself, at the end of the day, beyond making money, what is the more important goal for SE: Is it creating a product their customers like or is it creating a product that THEY like? Is it listening to their customers and taking their ideas under consideration, or do they just wish we'd shut up and go away? (And by go away, I mean buy their product whether we like it or not)


Well said.

Several will look at this and say WTH are they talking about?

The larger the corporation, the more often you get "yes" employees, who say "oh exactly, thank you for my paycheck, this is exactly what the customer expects." You are also more likely to get developers driven by requirements that were set up by others that were in brainstorming sessions and listing out ideas that were not actually good ideas. Then you have those that setup standard email replies, that do not address what the consumer needs when running into difficulties. When a consumer exhausts all said options from the email, they send an email to support, and support usually cannot fix it because it is too far beyond what they would normally reply to.

/cheers

#145 Sep 25 2010 at 11:10 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
SE has offices in California, and I -assume- the people that work there speak English, right? So why don't the people in California look into the concerns of English speaking players in Canada, the US, and Europe, and relay player concerns to SE Japan? Is it just that they don't have anyone who listens, or does the ball just get dropped, or is SE Japan just willfully ignoring the message?
I'm fairly sure that's what the office is designed for. I would imagine the safe money is on SE HQ in Japan just not caring for the most part what customers think.
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Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
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#146 Sep 26 2010 at 12:13 AM Rating: Good
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2,535 posts
bsphil wrote:
Nonagon wrote:
A hindrance is not a bad thing. It's just an obstruction, to be circumnavigated (if you want to, of course.) A "hindrance" is not bad design, innately. I recall one web programmer who designed his website upside down so that you'd have to focus to read it.

In print: It's not uncommon for designers to integrate "pause spreads" that break up content for the sake of enlivening the experience. Same idea. In theory, of course.
For an interface? Yes, that's an innately awful thing for a game. Why would you ever decide to make the interface purposefully obtuse? SE wants you to be playing for years, the UI has to be quick and intuitive.


This, basically.

Challenge and pacing in a game should come from the content, not the interface.

If your game's UI is slowing players down or making the game more difficult, then your interface is bad, your game itself may be bad, you are a bad (or lazy) designer, you get no Twinkie. Simple as that.
#147 Sep 26 2010 at 12:17 AM Rating: Good
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In my opinion, SE rushed the game.
I honestly believe they did so in order to compete with WoW, even after stating it wasn't their intention.

Don't get me wrong, I love the game as everyone else, however, it gave a bad first impression.
SE may fix everything in the future, but people will hesitate whether to buy it or not because of all the negative reviews out there.

They should've taken the time to fix every bug and enhance the UI before releasing the game.

If they truly aren't competing with Cataclysm, why didn't they release the PC version with the PS3 version next year?

Edited, Sep 26th 2010 2:18am by Skibit
#148 Sep 26 2010 at 12:18 AM Rating: Default
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269 posts
They arent changing the UI, its the same as XI's basically. They never changed that. So Im putting my money on they arent again. I have no problem with it. If you dont like slower paced rpgs mixed into your action mmos dont play. The game will still be a resounding success like XI
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#149 Sep 26 2010 at 12:44 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
thehellfire wrote:
resounding success like XI
Smiley: dubious
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#150 Sep 26 2010 at 12:52 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
24 posts
Good, player friendly features are not bad just cause they come from wow.

The ui does suck. Yes you can get used to it, but I can also get used to walking to work on my hands.. I'd rather drive.
#151 Sep 26 2010 at 12:52 AM Rating: Decent
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269 posts
bsphil wrote:
thehellfire wrote:
resounding success like XI
Smiley: dubious

Really all those years and all those subs and you call it dubious, I believe its listed as top 3 all time mmos behind wow and eq.
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