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The biggest problem with the retainer systemFollow

#1 Sep 25 2010 at 7:02 AM Rating: Good
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Is how we are using it.

I know I'll get rated down for saying this - but the retainer system would work a lot better if people acted a little more intelligently about it. Cramming every retainer in the first room is pretty stupid. Just like people who craft around the local leve npc at crowded camps are not using their heads.

If people started moving their retainers out of the first floor it would be nice.
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#2 Sep 25 2010 at 7:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Totally right. Then rather than spending an hour in one room clicking/browsing, I can add the time onto that that it takes to switch instances into the other rooms so I can click/browse some more to look at everyones garbage that should probably just be vendored anyhow.


#3 Sep 25 2010 at 7:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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The biggest problem with the retainer system is that it isn't an Auction House.
#4 Sep 25 2010 at 7:39 AM Rating: Good
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each floor should be designated for a category of items at least! even just that tiny step would improve things a lot!
#5 Sep 25 2010 at 7:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Tweezle120 wrote:
each floor should be designated for a category of items at least! even just that tiny step would improve things a lot!



[*thumbsup]
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#6 Sep 25 2010 at 7:54 AM Rating: Good
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But then how would you sell items of multiple types? Would your retainer then appear on each floor, for each item type you have for sale? LAg it up some more, why don't we?

No. We need an AH. The bazaar system is great for the things that we used it for in XI. It is NOT great to dump the whole of the economy on it.
#7 Sep 25 2010 at 8:39 AM Rating: Good
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They just need to add a search function. Which I think most people know they said they were planning on doing after the release of the game. So I think everyone needs to calm down and be more patient. Is the system in place right now irritating? Yes. Should it have been this way at launch? No. But it is. We know that SE is aware we need some kind of search function and/or an AH, it's coming.
#8 Sep 25 2010 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
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I don't understand how SE could be so ignorant of so many things that people are begging for. Yes, I know it is their game. But it won't be when people stop subscribing due to small things like this, that could be easily fixed. I had high hopes after all their experience with XI. This is getting grim though.
#9 Sep 25 2010 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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I agree with OP here. I don't even bother with the first floor any more and moved my retainer to the next one. Sadly we can't get organized because we can't organize in RL. Even if, and that's a big if, Zam's decide to spread out the retainers that just a small portion of the pop. The best thing to do right now is rename the wards that is category specific like food, armor, weapons, alchemy, smithy, wood, cloth, and leather. This won't fix the issues but would help to ease them. That way if I want to sell a shirt I know to set up a retainer in the Red Oak Clothing Ward.
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#10 Sep 25 2010 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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I agree it should have zones for item types. I've been suggesting this since I learned about the retainer system. You would not be forced to sell only that type of item in a certain zone, but obviously your best chances of selling it would be in that zone.

My other complaint is that my retainer is too inaccessible. I should not have to return to the exact city and market ward to collect and manage my retainer's inventory. They need some kind of delivery system to stock up and retrieve items from the retainers.

I think the retainer system can be interesting, but it needs work.
#11 Sep 25 2010 at 10:32 AM Rating: Default
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GramDainsleif wrote:
I don't understand how SE could be so ignorant of so many things that people are begging for. Yes, I know it is their game. But it won't be when people stop subscribing due to small things like this, that could be easily fixed. I had high hopes after all their experience with XI. This is getting grim though.


dude it has been 3 days of the CE... chill out. If a month from now this pesky little things still exist then maybe I'll listen to your whining.
#12 Sep 25 2010 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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Mithsavvy wrote:

I agree it should have zones for item types. I've been suggesting this since I learned about the retainer system. You would not be forced to sell only that type of item in a certain zone, but obviously your best chances of selling it would be in that zone.

My other complaint is that my retainer is too inaccessible. I should not have to return to the exact city and market ward to collect and manage my retainer's inventory. They need some kind of delivery system to stock up and retrieve items from the retainers.



I don't agree - because I don't want to have to travel to 10 different places to buy things. One place, one counter, one search, one place to make the purchase. This isn't a friendly system, and all it's going to do is cause people to walk away. I might have come across an item that someone else could really use, but I'm not going to bother with the current system. That person is now SOL because I'm dumping things at vendor. Great idea. SE, just great.

Quote:
The best thing to do right now is rename the wards that is category specific like food, armor, weapons, alchemy, smithy, wood, cloth, and leather.


This looks like an AH. I don't understand why there are folks who are so blind that they will suggest everything that is already part of any basic AH system, and yet argue that somehow this is better than an AH system and it just needs these "tweaks". No. It needs to be an AH, and then let us use the Bazaars like we did in XI.

/facepalm
#13 Sep 25 2010 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
This looks like an AH. I don't understand why there are folks who are so blind that they will suggest everything that is already part of any basic AH system, and yet argue that somehow this is better than an AH system and it just needs these "tweaks". No. It needs to be an AH, and then let us use the Bazaars like we did in XI.

The difference is the rename could be up and running with the next patch while a long lasting AH system is going to take a month or so to build. We need a temp fix now.
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#14 Sep 25 2010 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Is how we are using it.

I know I'll get rated down for saying this - but the retainer system would work a lot better if people acted a little more intelligently about it. Cramming every retainer in the first room is pretty stupid. Just like people who craft around the local leve npc at crowded camps are not using their heads.

If people started moving their retainers out of the first floor it would be nice.


I agree with you but it definitely isn't the biggest problem. The fact that I spent an hour in the market ward yesterday and couldn't find a piece of body armor is the largest problem. The Auction Houses have worked incredibly in every game thus far. I don't see the reason to try and fix something that isn't broken.
#15 Sep 25 2010 at 11:58 AM Rating: Decent
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my retainer named Bargains is the only one on the First floor of Gigiyon(sp.)
I might not sell my junks as fast, but I like it to be in a less crowded area
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#16 Sep 25 2010 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
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BRizzl3 wrote:
They just need to add a search function. Which I think most people know they said they were planning on doing after the release of the game. So I think everyone needs to calm down and be more patient. Is the system in place right now irritating? Yes. Should it have been this way at launch? No. But it is. We know that SE is aware we need some kind of search function and/or an AH, it's coming.


i agree. I'd like to hire a real retainer, not a doll that only stands at a point... This retainer runs around and gather all information of goods available in current market, along with prices. the retainer shall also know what i am looking for and pro-actively searching for me in the market, even bid the item for me when i am at sleeping.

just hope SE can add more functions to the stupid retainer, or give us AH back!!!!!!!!!!!!


Edited, Sep 25th 2010 2:03pm by conditionzero
#17 Sep 25 2010 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good
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Torrence wrote:
Mithsavvy wrote:

[quote]The best thing to do right now is rename the wards that is category specific like food, armor, weapons, alchemy, smithy, wood, cloth, and leather.


This looks like an AH. I don't understand why there are folks who are so blind that they will suggest everything that is already part of any basic AH system, and yet argue that somehow this is better than an AH system and it just needs these "tweaks". No. It needs to be an AH, and then let us use the Bazaars like we did in XI.

/facepalm


I know! Just scrap the f*cking retainer system!

I'd say that this is like the rhetorical "dollar auction," but SE doesn't do those.
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#18 Sep 25 2010 at 12:10 PM Rating: Decent
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keep retainers, i like it!

search function plz....
#19 Sep 25 2010 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
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As a crafter I actually like the retainer system. I've been getting good deals on materials that I would have never gotten on an auction house. A search fuction would be good as long as they don't list price. I don't want everything in the world to cost the same.

If players started organizing it would work better though.

And to the person who talked about teleporting floors taking so much time - I think it takes more trying to target through big clump of folks and waiting for people to load. I always start on at least the second ward now. I don't even go to the first one if I can avoid it.
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#20 Sep 25 2010 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Im adding this here cause cause it seem relavent to what people are talking about.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ff14ah/
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#21 Sep 25 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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How do you know that you wouldn't get the deals on an AH? As long as SE doesn't bloat the AH selling fees like they did in XI on some items, you will get more supply available quickly and in one place. What exactly is it about the retainer system that you like "better" than having a central location to search and buy items?

#22 Sep 25 2010 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
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I can't count the amount of times I've dug this segment from this interview up but here it is again for all of your reference:

Quote:

Regarding auctionhouses:

Regarding Final Fantasy XIV and the market battle system is something we would like to consider the equilevent to the auction house we had in Final Fantasy XI. Only that you'll also be able to fix your equipment and things like that. It is something we really want people to enjoy. Also after the release of the game we will see how it goes and for example find out what kind of search options players will want and need and improve the situation. We don't really want to introduce the auctionhouse from the beginning because that is going to determine the economy system. So we want to improve it slowly and adjust it accordingly.


Italicized the important part.
#23 Sep 25 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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The PROBLEM with the retainer system is that I can never find what i want when i want it.

Say for example I want to make a blinding dagger, so i need blinding potion, I am an alchemist so no problem, but to make the potion i need blind fish.. wait up .. so I need to level fishing.. perhaps I could just buy them..

Um perhaps not because 1. I can't find them because they are a scarse item 2. the person who just fished a load up sold them to an NPC because he couldn't be bothered to try and sell them...or 3. there are some out there but I can find them.

Ok let me try to make a Harpoon... so i need animal glue, easy can make that, then I need fish glue.. so i need fish again.. same problem, I haven't seen one retainer selling fish, sure there must be plenty out there but unless I can actually find them then its a waste of time.

Of course if there was an AH then I could find those fish and not be stuck trying to make something.

This happens to almost everyone I have spoken to in my LS, they are hitting road blocks where they need items they can't make because they can't find the materials to do so.

Edited, Sep 25th 2010 3:12pm by Diakar
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#24 Sep 25 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Can someone explain this retainer system to me? Where in the **** is it? Or exactly where can I access it? I've got 3 jobs to level 12+ now and it's really annoying not having a better weapon. Sorry if it's a stupid question. I can't find anything about it.
#25 Sep 25 2010 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
The biggest problem with the retainer system


its a overly complex piece of garbage..
#26 Sep 25 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Default
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Ba1dw1n wrote:
its a overly complex piece of garbage..


It's actually overly simplistic. This is the same system that the original EQ used once Shadows of Luclin came out, it's oldschool.


Edited, Sep 25th 2010 3:21pm by BRizzl3
#27 Sep 25 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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BRizzl3 wrote:
Ba1dw1n wrote:
its a overly complex piece of garbage..


It's actually overly simplistic. This is the same system that the original EQ used once Shadows of Luclin came out, it's oldschool.


Edited, Sep 25th 2010 3:21pm by BRizzl3


yeah i guess your right so let me take a moment to correct myself...
Its a overly simplistic piece of garbage..

i know their going to add a AH at some point but that doesnt mean the retainer system isnt broken.

Edited, Sep 25th 2010 3:27pm by Ba1dw1n
#28 Sep 25 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Diakar wrote:
The PROBLEM with the retainer system


It isn't a system at all. Its a useless mass of bazaars all crammed together with no logical purpose.

Its completely pointless and SE is stupid for thinking it would serve any purpose.

I don't care about an AH but if there was just a search function for the market ward, would be great. No reason why we have to go wandering around in there for hours on end. I just don't get it.
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#29 Sep 25 2010 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
The biggest problem with the retainer system is that it's a retainer/bazaar system. If you think it's bad now I bet you can't wait till non-CE people start playing too!

Screenshot
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#30 Sep 25 2010 at 3:17 PM Rating: Good
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Instead of lumping all the wards in one place, maybe they should've added a ward to each guild. Then a ward (or 3) in the market areas. Not stuck them out in the western city boonies, like the Lotus Gardens in Gridania.
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#31 Sep 25 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The biggest problem with the retainer system is that it isn't an Auction House.


I couldn't have said it better my ******* self. If there's one thing I absolutely hate about XIV right now ( overall I like it though ) it's the retainer ******** system. AH>Retainers. Period.
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#32 Sep 25 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Good
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since they're really big on the 'paid' servant idea of retainers, why not just add a search function to the retainer menu? Not far-fetched that you'd get one of your "workers" to find crap for you.
#33 Sep 25 2010 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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ghosthacked wrote:
since they're really big on the 'paid' servant idea of retainers, why not just add a search function to the retainer menu? Not far-fetched that you'd get one of your "workers" to find crap for you.


If you read up a few posts you will find a direct quite from SE hinting at just that! oh my!
#34 Sep 25 2010 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
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Professor shintasama wrote:
The biggest problem with the retainer system is that it's a retainer/bazaar system. If you think it's bad now I bet you can't wait till non-CE people start playing too!

Screenshot



The thing with RO is that with those little tags you could mouse over and see what the item was. With the retainer system you have to go through 12312 menus and tab over everyone.

RO in this case is better.

If it was modified, I could see it working well. A mouse over that showed goods, limiting retainers per instance, intelligent retainer placement (if you have a lot of armor, it puts you in a certain section), a SEARCH...

I've been using it to buy armor and is IS awesome to find stuff when you do find it, but it's just so time consuming and that is mostly to do with the UI and interface.

Just the omission of these sorts of things and clunky UI (in THIS instance), leads me to believe that this is just a time sink to get the economy ready (people crafting, somewhat to set prices) for a real AH. The retainers would then be used solely as "Mog houses/storage."

I'm willing to work with the system IF SE decides to improve on it, however give me an AH and it will be even better.
#35 Sep 25 2010 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
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Not being able to sell weapons or gear that are at 99% or less durability is also quite frustrating, considering NPCs can only fix them to, what, 75%? I was trying to sell my headgear and gloves that I wore for a few hours, and it wouldn't let me due to them being in "less than mint condition".
#36 Sep 25 2010 at 4:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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I went to the Market wards, hoping to find a new, affordable weapon for my Pugilist.

After an HOUR of searching, I was not only unable to find a new pugilist weapon at a reasonable price, I was unable to find ANY pugilist weapons. Or any weapons for any other class, at any price, at all, in any bazaar.

I want the last hour of my life back.

And I want the ability to search wares.
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#37UnlovedTitan, Posted: Sep 25 2010 at 4:30 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) i am sorry, i would have to disagree...
#38 Sep 25 2010 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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UnlovedTitan wrote:
how can u sell a item to somone millions of miles away it just doesnt make sense to me.



Probably the same way you can shoot giant fire balls, call lightning from the sky, or teleport around the world in an instant...
#39 Sep 25 2010 at 5:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Instead of lumping all the wards in one place, maybe they should've added a ward to each guild. Then a ward (or 3) in the market areas. Not stuck them out in the western city boonies, like the Lotus Gardens in Gridania.


that would make things even worse, by adding even more time to go to each retainer.

I dont mind everyone grouping in ward 1. I just stand in a spot. check everything, move to that spots edge, and check everything that reloads.
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#40 Sep 25 2010 at 6:38 PM Rating: Decent
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UnlovedTitan wrote:
i am sorry, i would have to disagree...

i HATE Auction houses (like in wow and lotro) how can u sell a item to somone millions of miles away it just doesnt make sense to me.


Millions of miles?

The average MMO game world is smaller than the state of Rhode Island, which is 40 miles wide by 50 miles long...
#41 Sep 25 2010 at 7:28 PM Rating: Default
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yea thats millions of miles in a game sheesh
#42 Sep 25 2010 at 7:32 PM Rating: Decent
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I think the biggest problem with the retainer system is no one wants to give it a try because they automatically assume it's going to suck because it isn't an instant gratification machine.
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#43 Sep 25 2010 at 7:35 PM Rating: Good
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UnlovedTitan wrote:
yea thats millions of miles in a game sheesh


Okay. Let's do a little exercise in math here.

It takes me about 30 minutes to -walk- (not run; walk) 1.5 miles. So that's roughly 20 minutes to walk 1 mile.

Hop on XIV. Start at any one city, look at the time, walk to any other city, in as straight a line as possible, without stopping (or at least making a note of stopped time vs walking time). Divide that by 20 minutes and that's roughly how many miles you've walked.

By my math of 20 minutes per mile, one million miles would take approximately 20,000,000 minutes or 333333.333... hours, or 13888.888... days or approximately 38 years to traverse.

So tell me, has it taken you 38 years to walk from one city to another? Perhaps you need a better computer.
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#44 Sep 25 2010 at 7:57 PM Rating: Decent
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you guys make me laugh.

sue me for overexaggerating.

so in the storyline of this game are the towns considered 100miles apart 1000miles apart?

is that not relative?

#45 Sep 25 2010 at 8:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I think the biggest problem with the retainer system is no one wants to give it a try because they automatically assume it's going to suck because it isn't an instant gratification machine.


Go into the market wards, and find the best price for fire crystals. then imagine doing that for every purchase you make in game for the next several weeks, months, maybe years.
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#46UnlovedTitan, Posted: Sep 25 2010 at 8:07 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) yea and just imagine all the other treasures you just might find along the way!
#47 Sep 25 2010 at 8:14 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
Quote:
I think the biggest problem with the retainer system is no one wants to give it a try because they automatically assume it's going to suck because it isn't an instant gratification machine.


Go into the market wards, and find the best price for fire crystals. then imagine doing that for every purchase you make in game for the next several weeks, months, maybe years.


I'll do you one better. Here is my challenge: Think of any one weapon type (HTH, lance, sword, etc), any one armor type (head, body, leg, etc), any one type of crystal or shard, and any two other items of your choice. Write them down on a piece of paper or something, no cheating.

Now, in theory, if this was FFXI, it would take you
- less than 2 minutes to find a weapon (Is it in stock? How much is it? How many are for sale?)
- less than 2 minutes to find a specific type of equipment (Same as above)
- less than 1 minute to find a specific crystal type (Same as above)
- less than 5 minutes per item (depending on whether you know what it's listed under or not to find each of the other two items.

So in FFXI, it would have taken you less than 15 minutes, total, to find these items.

Write down your shopping list, head into the market wards, and tell me how long it takes you to find all five items. On average, I would expect it to take 30-90 minutes to do the same thing that, in FFXI, would have taken under 15.

Edited, Sep 25th 2010 10:15pm by Mikhalia
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