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#1 Sep 26 2010 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent
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If you were waiting to see how improved retail was from beta, to decide whether to buy or not..
Cancel your pre-orders. The only difference from beta are : 50% less menu lag (still too much), and hardware mouse. And slightly faster levequest cooldown. Also abilities don't unequip on class change.

-The overly complicated menu 'nesting' for every **** thing, is still the same.
-The locked zonelines are still locked
-No NPC quests that I have found or heard of, besides main storyline
-No search for bazaars or an AH
-No extra zones compared to beta
-Airships still locked
-Chocobos still locked
-Crashing on levequests still = loss.
-No inventory sorting
-No improved gear damage visibility
-No new levequests, still the same 3-4 per lvl range.
-Parley is now attained at rank 15 mission, and no npcs currently use it besides the tutorial npc.
-No player search function
-Replying to tells is still a *****
-Nobody talks because typing still sucks
-Trying to equip a hat still shows you your entire gear list.
-Anima still runs out way too fast on teleports, even using them minimally. On day 3-4 you're walking.
-Still severe server lag which often leads to an enemy beating your face in for 2 minutes without letting you engage.
-Same lag still makes 'reaction' abilities like PUG's haymaker 75% useless because the server won't listen to you until it's past the window to use it.

In short. They need some huge patching, which they haven't done a single one of yet. SE version comes out very soon, if you were waiting on CE people's report to decide, there you have it.

Let's put their balls in a vice again, because I don't see much movement.


Edited, Sep 26th 2010 3:37pm by RattyBatty
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#2 Sep 26 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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RattyBatty wrote:
-Anima still runs out way too fast on teleports, even using them minimally. On day 3-4 you're walking.


I look at the teleports as a free bonus on top of XI. You had to walk anywhere and everywhere in XI anyway, I just look at it as having to walk everywhere, and the teleports are a free bonus, rather than looking at teleports as a primary source of transportation.

RattyBatty wrote:
-Same lag still makes 'reaction' abilities like PUG's haymaker 75% useless because the server won't listen to you until it's past the window to use it.


I actually have a weird glitch where sometimes I can use haymaker back to back to back to back to back without meeting the criteria to use it. Doesn't happen all the time, but every so often it does.
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#3 Sep 26 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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The lag stuff I can excuse, but everything else I agree with.

There, I think, should be parties camping and fighting ITs right now, but there are so many factors prohibiting parties forming, its no wonder why there aren't.

I really think that SE is trying to throttle playtime, for whatever reason.

However I don't mind the game per se, but therein lies the rub; do I stay on board, having a bit of fun? Or do I quit, find something else, and hope that the game gets better?

#4 Sep 26 2010 at 1:46 PM Rating: Default
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696 posts
RattyBatty wrote:
If you were waiting to see how improved retail was from beta, to decide whether to buy or not..
Cancel your pre-orders. The only difference from beta are : 50% less menu lag (still too much), and hardware mouse. And slightly faster levequest cooldown. Also abilities don't unequip on class change.

-The overly complicated menu 'nesting' for every **** thing, is still the same.
-The locked zonelines are still locked
-No NPC quests that I have found or heard of, besides main storyline
-No search for bazaars or an AH
-No extra zones compared to beta
-Airships still locked
-Chocobos still locked
-Crashing on levequests still = loss.
-No inventory sorting
-No improved gear damage visibility
-No new levequests, still the same 3-4 per lvl range.
-Parley is now attained at rank 15 mission, and no npcs currently use it besides the tutorial npc.
-No player search function
-Replying to tells is still a *****
-Nobody talks because typing still sucks
-Trying to equip a hat still shows you your entire gear list.
-Anima still runs out way too fast on teleports, even using them minimally. On day 3-4 you're walking.
-Still severe server lag which often leads to an enemy beating your face in for 2 minutes without letting you engage.
-Same lag still makes 'reaction' abilities like PUG's haymaker 75% useless because the server won't listen to you until it's past the window to use it.

In short. They need some huge patching, which they haven't done a single one of yet. SE version comes out very soon, if you were waiting on CE people's report to decide, there you have it.

Let's put their balls in a vice again, because I don't see much movement.


Edited, Sep 26th 2010 3:37pm by RattyBatty


Are you still playing? Because if you're still playing i don't want to hear it.
#5 Sep 26 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Default
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3,825 posts
Um there is a player search function under the Party tab, and pretty sure ctrl+R replies to tells
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#6 Sep 26 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent
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2,815 posts
Quote:
ctrl+R replies to tells

Only after you manually have replied to that person once... As I said. it's stupid.

Edited, Sep 26th 2010 4:07pm by RattyBatty
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#7 Sep 26 2010 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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I'm still getting it, and playing it. I know if I cancel then down the road I'll do the same thing I did with FFXI(which I stopped playing after a few months) and regret not playing it for the long haul. I've done this with too many MMORPGs. I want to play it and I'll persevere through the bugs. I played Warhammer and loved it despite all the bugs it had, and believe me it had A LOT.
#8 Sep 26 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,566 posts
To add, I hope there are some CE folks who can agree with my Top 10 "Fix this or I'm out after the 30-day free trial" list.

1) Search function for retainers or an AH system. As of right now I have to make everything myself or spend a week searching for the ridiculous ingredients for basic low end-product synths.

2) Inventory sort for myself and retainer. This is such a basic function. I appreciate that we essentially start the game with 160 inventory slots, but with most items having an NQ, +1, +2 and +3 version, those 160 slots fill fast, especially combined with my first point. I have to hang onto everything because I need to use it at some point.

3) Remaining UI hiccups. When I scroll through my inventory, it will at times just jump back up to the top of my list. Makes for an awesome experience when trying to find those two NQ copper or, the +1 and the +3 so I do a single synth. Also, the chat log closing out for just about every other thing that happen. Not like hitting space bar, /l then hammering out 140 characters just to realize the box kicked you out because the mining animation finished. It makes responding to tells and /l chat nigh impossible during certain activities, like crafting.

4) /sea. The current method of searching for players is absurd. Not only can I not search for classes which I haven't leveled, but I can't search for someone by name. In XI I could even search by partial name. How great is it when someone with X item you've been dying to have trots past but they're too far for you to buy it. You try to /t to ask them to meet you but spell their name wrong. Item gone.

5) Seeking items without already owning them. I can't understand this. Sure it works for consumables I don't need to make use of at the moment. But if I already have a Bronze Hoplon, why the **** would I leave it on my retainer or in my own bazaar to seek another? If I am without one, though, I should be able to seek for it.

6) "You are too far away to make that purchase." If you're going to make me stop dead in my tracks to examine another player's bazaar, make it so that I can purchase something from a distance while they keep moving. Why is it I can view their bazaar up until they vanish in the distance but I have to be right next to them to purchase the items I am seeing?

7) Linkshell and party management. There is no reason we should have to be on top of someone to invite, kick, join, leave, etc.

8) Anima regeneration. Going from 1 point every four hours to 1 every three is not significant. That's two more in a 24-hour period.

9) Slight increase to Guardian's Favor regeneration. Solo, this doesn't seem a factor. But if regularly leve sharing is the intention, the available favor dries up way too fast. (Note: If the regeneration of favor is affected by the guardian to which we are aligned, it'd be fantastic to get a nugget of info on how our choice we were forced to make blindly affects us. Right now guardian and star date seems like a useless option to buffer character creation.)

10) Minor reduction in some recipe requirements. Fish Glue doesn't exist. Antelope Sinew Cords won't be around for a while yet. Weapons like Harpoon and Bone Hora should be a standard, somewhat easy to get, upgrade from the weathered starting weapons. Yet the requirements are so absurd it takes a tremendous amount of effort to produce them thus making the cost out of reach for someone who still is around ranks 5-10.

I can deal with certain things being locked until the player base has a higher average rank. I can even deal with some slight lag here and there. But these 10 things, I feel, are basic and essential. I gave the benefit of the doubt during beta, but now it's make or break.
#9 Sep 26 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
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169 posts
zoltanrs wrote:
RattyBatty wrote:
If you were waiting to see how improved retail was from beta, to decide whether to buy or not..
Cancel your pre-orders. The only difference from beta are : 50% less menu lag (still too much), and hardware mouse. And slightly faster levequest cooldown. Also abilities don't unequip on class change.

-The overly complicated menu 'nesting' for every **** thing, is still the same.
-The locked zonelines are still locked
-No NPC quests that I have found or heard of, besides main storyline
-No search for bazaars or an AH
-No extra zones compared to beta
-Airships still locked
-Chocobos still locked
-Crashing on levequests still = loss.
-No inventory sorting
-No improved gear damage visibility
-No new levequests, still the same 3-4 per lvl range.
-Parley is now attained at rank 15 mission, and no npcs currently use it besides the tutorial npc.
-No player search function
-Replying to tells is still a *****
-Nobody talks because typing still sucks
-Trying to equip a hat still shows you your entire gear list.
-Anima still runs out way too fast on teleports, even using them minimally. On day 3-4 you're walking.
-Still severe server lag which often leads to an enemy beating your face in for 2 minutes without letting you engage.
-Same lag still makes 'reaction' abilities like PUG's haymaker 75% useless because the server won't listen to you until it's past the window to use it.

In short. They need some huge patching, which they haven't done a single one of yet. SE version comes out very soon, if you were waiting on CE people's report to decide, there you have it.

Let's put their balls in a vice again, because I don't see much movement.


Edited, Sep 26th 2010 3:37pm by RattyBatty


Are you still playing? Because if you're still playing i don't want to hear it.

go on and keep make fun of the Op and you ll regret it , i do still play it but i dont enjoy it, i myself have to move server due to HEAVY LAG, there you mr or mrs or w/e gender you re

and the Op forgot to mention 2 more **** up combat system:

the mob suddenly run back to its loc and refill hp
and : Target already engaged that prevent player from hit mobs but the mobs can still hit player

Edited, Sep 26th 2010 4:28pm by Shneibel
#10 Sep 26 2010 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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RattyBatty wrote:
Also abilities don't unequip on class change.


You should be switching jobs with your macros, which should change your equipped gear and the actions for each job.
#11 Sep 26 2010 at 2:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:

Are you still playing? Because if you're still playing i don't want to hear it.


i'm playing too and i love the game but it doesn't mean that we can't criticize it. The game in essence -sucks- at the moment. The NUMEROUS cons far outweigh the pros. So why would any average gamer choose to pay for a game that is riddled with bugs and doesn't work properly when there are so many that do? I have had to help so many people already because SE doesn't bother to include a useful instruction manual or explanation of the game systems.

Overall this game is a joke to an average gamer. Its great for us hardcore players and ff fans but for someone wanting fun this is like the last thing i would suggest to buy.
I'm sure it will get better, but right now no one can deny that its kind of a joke. I mean honestly SE fasttracked the release. Its not a big deal. But the game is missing some -essential- that are easy to implement. Like a better communication system for one. Theres no excuse not to have a /tell and /ls tab, and no excuse as to why its nearly impossible to chat while crafting (since each time the bar goes down it automatically closes anything you were typing)

The game has problems, they will -eventually- be fixed, but people should know what they are buying before they buy it. And right now they are basically paying for an alpha.... MAYBE beta version of a game.
#12 Sep 26 2010 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I love these people saying "I love this game, but it sucks. I'm really enjoying it, but if you want a fun game, I wouldn't suggest it."

While I agree there are some issues that seem like easily fixable still in the game that are annoying, I am having a lot of fun with the game. As much as I'm enjoying it now, I'm excited to see it improve as these issues get updated in the coming weeks.
#13 Sep 26 2010 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
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2,815 posts
This thread is meant as an honest report on the state of the game VS beta. For those who were waiting on that assessment to make their decision. This post was meant for them to cancel their order if this was going to be their decision maker.

BTW rating down criticism is the same as saying "I want things to stay the same".
Not all criticism = looking for trouble.
In fact i will say all my criticism = looking for improvement.

Edited, Sep 26th 2010 4:57pm by RattyBatty
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#14 Sep 26 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,566 posts
Vawn43 wrote:
I love these people saying "I love this game, but it sucks. I'm really enjoying it, but if you want a fun game, I wouldn't suggest it."

While I agree there are some issues that seem like easily fixable still in the game that are annoying, I am having a lot of fun with the game. As much as I'm enjoying it now, I'm excited to see it improve as these issues get updated in the coming weeks.



Because the things that are done right are great and enjoyable. But it's like riding a rollercoaster with a brick wall at the end.
#15 Sep 26 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
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3,825 posts
RattyBatty wrote:
This thread is meant as an honest report on the state of the game VS beta. For those who were waiting on that assessment to make their decision. This post was meant for them to cancel their order if this was going to be their decision maker.

BTW rating down criticism is the same as saying "I want things to stay the same".
Not all criticism = looking for trouble.
In fact i will say all my criticism = looking for improvement.

Edited, Sep 26th 2010 4:57pm by RattyBatty


Rating down might also say:this is the 50th thread covering most of the same topics

Though I would guess the majority of people who rate down only read the first word out of a post and then rate down every post by that person ever... At least that's the way it sorta used to work
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#16 Sep 26 2010 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
To add, I hope there are some CE folks who can agree with my Top 10 "Fix this or I'm out after the 30-day free trial" list.


Believe it or not I already canceled my sub after 4 days; I might re-sub at a later date if things improve. I've always been a quest ***** myself and this game seems to be severely lacking in that respect,I don't consider leves to be quests, and 1 quest every 10 levels just isn't going to cut it for me.

Also I've never really been that much into crafting. I usually take up 1 or 2 crafts in a MMO, but it seems like I'm going to NEED to take up most of the crafting classes just so I can have my gear up to date: I'd be happy if I could purchase just some basic level appropriate gear from an NPC up to about lvl 20 even. The main reason I play MMO's is to explore and to kill s@#t and to enjoy questing, not to play a crafting emulator. So far this game is like an HD version of FFXI with everything removed except "Fields of valor" {guildleves}, crafting and the grind.

I really had high hopes for this game and wanted to love it ,but I can't in it's current state. I was in the open beta and was hoping they were leaving out a lot of content until retail release, but the more I look the more I see an incomplete game was released.
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#17 Sep 26 2010 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Rating down might also say:this is the 50th thread covering most of the same topics


If people stop talking about it, SE will assume all is well and not fix things. So my comment still stands, be it complaining 1 time or 50 times, if you try to silence it, all you do is keep things the same. The more noise is made, the more chances of a prompt and satisfactory fix.
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#18 Sep 26 2010 at 3:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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RattyBatty wrote:
Quote:
Rating down might also say:this is the 50th thread covering most of the same topics


If people stop talking about it, SE will assume all is well and not fix things. So my comment still stands, be it complaining 1 time or 50 times, if you try to silence it, all you do is keep things the same. The more noise is made, the more chances of a prompt and satisfactory fix.


You underestimate SE's (at least the team pulled off XI and onto this game) ability to put their fingers in their ears and scream "la la la". If the directors think their way is the best way or if some issue is a low priority, it doesn't matter how many customers complain, they will not be bothered.

I still say the best thing that has ever happened to FFXI is FFXIV and the shuffling of the development team who believes they always know best and the new guys who listen to everything the playerbase says and adjusts immidetly. XIV is a great game with a lot of problems, but don't expect them to change things based on any amount of posting on forums.
#19LyleVertigo, Posted: Sep 26 2010 at 3:37 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ugh
#20 Sep 26 2010 at 3:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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394 posts
There's just no reason for this game to not be at least on par with XI in terms of basic features, but that's been beaten to death by this point. What I'd rather point out is as of right now there's virtually no content. It's certainly not fair for people to expect it to be filled with the same amount of content as the four plus expansions of its predecessor, but there is literally nothing but the beginnings of the main quests for each city, a leve system which features exactly one type of battle leve (go here and kill x number of monsters), and gathering/crafting leves which offer compensation for synthing something specific or gathering from a specific spot, both of which you could have done without the leves. And it doesn't take very long to realize that every map is arranged the same way all the way up to Ishgard, with a basic five-sector layout each having a camp. Those hoping for the 10-50 experience to be any different from 1-10 had best curb their enthusiasm (actually it will be different in that you'll only regain anima often enough to teleport a few times per week, meaning you'll be doing lots more walking).

What disturbs me the most is how adamant the developers have been about eliminating the grind, putting in measures to make sure we don't progress too fast or play too much, and flat out telling us that we're not supposed to grind. Yet there is literally nothing else to do but grind. There is no objective in FFXIV right now other than to increase your rank. Even gathering and crafting is tied to raising ranks. Right now, at retail release, the only reason for playing FFXIV is "I should increase my levels/ranks so that when the developers actually add things for me to do besides increasing my level, I'll be ready." There are no missions to raise your level for. There are no boss battles. There are no big organized events to strive toward participating in. Do I fully expect all of these things to be added with time? Yes. Did I expect all of these things to exist in some fashion at launch? Yes. No matter how you cut it, the game is just plain unfinished; there are absolutely no two ways about it, you cannot argue against it, and no excuses you make about how it's still early and XI didn't have everything at launch etc. etc. will change that fact.

So if there's nothing to do but grind, and the developers are doing everything in their power to make sure I don't grind, then what exactly is it we're all supposed to be doing? It seems to me like we're still just testing the system, and this is merely the fourth beta phase after all. Am I having fun? Yes, as much fun as I had in the beta, which worked because I knew it was a beta; now I'm starting to get bored, because the game has been officially released and there's still nothing more to do than in the beta.

I don't mean to be harshly critical, because I still fully expect FFXIV to be at least as much fun as FFXI was, to give me thrilling experiences for years to come that don't compare to any other game out there. But as of right now, FFXIV is a lame horse that hasn't even made it out of the starting gate, and the devs are already betting all of their money on it to take first place. It's not even a game at this point, it's just an engine for one. Sure, in a few years we'll be basking in the greatest MMO ever made, looking back and laughing at how upset we got, but calling this a proper retail release is going to hurt SE's reputation as an MMO developer with reviewers and gamers who were put off by XI in the first place. For those of us who strove desperately to convince others that XI wasn't as bad as they thought, and for those of us who will continue to do so with XIV, we sure have our work cut out for us.
#21 Sep 26 2010 at 4:04 PM Rating: Good
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Agree with OP 100% and I'm still playing, and will continue to play & complain about the absurd stuff, like what was mentioned.

Forgot a really important one.

Questleves... when in a party 'sharing' leves... if you have the same leve as someone else, yours gets completed when theirs does >< So if there are 3 people, and all 3 have the same 3 leves, you're still only doing 3, not 9 :/
#22 Sep 26 2010 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
5 posts
i played open beta for two weeks... Has anything changed for the worse. cus when i played it i had a blast with people. idk im gettin it the 1st. im sinking with teh ship anyways. see me in rabanastre, if you dare. But for real has anything changed like how much exp you get for quests or fighting solo? dare i say the game is just beautiful. so i gotta try it out again.
#23 Sep 26 2010 at 4:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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723 posts
Another grievance I would like to add to this list is that you cannot trade items that aren't in mint condition. Now, I can see why SE might have put that there. But sometimes you find yourself with extra items that maybe you want to give away to someone in your LS or friend's list and help them out. Well, you can't, unless of course you go and repair it yourself to 100%.

woe2spread wrote:
i played open beta for two weeks... Has anything changed for the worse. cus when i played it i had a blast with people. idk im gettin it the 1st. im sinking with teh ship anyways. see me in rabanastre, if you dare. But for real has anything changed like how much exp you get for quests or fighting solo? dare i say the game is just beautiful. so i gotta try it out again.


No, thankfully nothing got worse. While the list of problems seems long, the fact that they're not issues in FFXI makes me think they can get it right in FFXIV in quick fashion.

Edited, Sep 26th 2010 6:41pm by Jeraziah
#24 Sep 26 2010 at 4:42 PM Rating: Decent
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The only changes for the worse are :
-Way less gear rewards in leves
-Less gil given by the missions.

The rest as the OP says, is some minor improvements, and a ******* of still 'broken'/unusable stuff.
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#25 Sep 26 2010 at 4:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Antelop Sinew cord most certainly does exist. I have 6 of them at level 12 conjurer so it is a fairly low level drop. In fact, I may be wrong but i seem to remember it dropping off of a dodo for some reason, not an antelope.
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#26 Sep 26 2010 at 4:49 PM Rating: Good
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just fyi there are leves with antelopes that drop antelope sinew cord i believe. If you cant find one do the "find the firestarter imp" ones in camp tranquil (gridania). theres a random chance of them being there if they done transform into imps
#27 Sep 26 2010 at 4:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think we need to be careful when we make complaints about the game. Is it a genuine complaint with a reason - such as no AH, or is it something else.

For example:

Suggesting that there is a big issue with crafting because certain items aren't available - are you sure they are not, or is it just that 5 days after launch, you haven't found it yet. I have both fish glue and Antelope Sinew Cord in my inventory.

I am very frustrated with Anima regeneration but perhaps SE wanted us to think about waht we are doing rather than just porting all over the place constantly. If you chose your starter area carefully, maybe you wouldnt need to port so much and Anima wouldnt be an issue. THey could have implemented the game without any means of teleporting! Maybe SE have done this on purpose.

Having very low Guardian favour regen is probably so that players will use it sparingly rather than spend all of there time under the buff. This is an added bonus that did not need to be in the game and yet people are crying out for more of it. It was not SE's intention to allow you to reach the cap in under a week.

There are some real issues with the game that certainly need fixing, but many of the problems people are talking about come from design elements that are there to prevent people from just powering through the game. if you think of anima and guardian favour as a "bonus" rather than a "right" perhaps it will not be such a big deal.

As for items - we are only 5 days in. Explore a little, see what drops what rather than reaching for the internet and getting frustrated when ZAm or other sites cant immediately provide the answer.
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#28 Sep 26 2010 at 4:55 PM Rating: Default
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I agree with OP. This game is no different from beta. It is to be expected, MMORPGs do not transition from open beta to retail. Open beta was there to stress server and fix minor matters but nothing game breaking. Too much problem associated with party formation lead to the deterioration of the in-game community creating a world of silence and solo play.
#29 Sep 26 2010 at 5:29 PM Rating: Default
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Since I hit level 10, I dont think I have done anything solo except gathering.

Far too much fun in parties.

Had a great 6 man camp party yesterday in some dungeon in Gridania and it was the best time I have had in the game so far. Why would you solo in an MMO? Just crazy, grouping is so much more fun.
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#30 Sep 26 2010 at 5:51 PM Rating: Good
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2,535 posts
Vawn43 wrote:
RattyBatty wrote:
Also abilities don't unequip on class change.


You should be switching jobs with your macros, which should change your equipped gear and the actions for each job.


You shouldn't need to use macros for switching jobs. Especially given that, due to the 10-line macro limit, at higher levels it's going to require multiple macros for each job.

Seriously, it only takes a few hundred bytes at most to store equipment and ability configuration for a given job, and it doesn't even need to be stored server-side. And being able to store equipment and ability presets, aside from providing more flexibility, would also make class-switching much less of a chore for console players and controller users.
#31 Sep 26 2010 at 6:07 PM Rating: Decent
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kaorinite wrote:
Agree with OP 100% and I'm still playing, and will continue to play & complain about the absurd stuff, like what was mentioned.

Forgot a really important one.

Questleves... when in a party 'sharing' leves... if you have the same leve as someone else, yours gets completed when theirs does >< So if there are 3 people, and all 3 have the same 3 leves, you're still only doing 3, not 9 :/


That's Leve Linking, when two or more members have the same Guildleve. Leve Sharing is when another member has one you don't have, they are two separate mechanics. Though they said when linking leves your rewards will be greater. They have been discussed by the devs before, can't seem to find where at the moment.


Edited, Sep 26th 2010 8:07pm by BRizzl3
#32zoltanrs, Posted: Sep 26 2010 at 7:09 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) wtf? so you threatened me like you're some 1337 ethug to start with, then said you're playing it but not enjoying it like I was supposed to make some hidden link come together there that might give me great insight into a confused and likely slow moving mind... I couldn't even begin to speculate what that next thing was supposed to say. Then there's "Op forgot to mention 2 more **** up combat system:" That's pretty special. I gotta admit that.
#33 Sep 26 2010 at 7:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think FFXIV'll crash and burn -- but it'll have a major drop-off in subscriptions because they wanted to rush it.

Weren't they in alpha like 5 month ago? Alpha to retail ... not quite, more like they rushed the development to get subs in, and they're only hurting themselves. I wasn't even expecting FF14 to be released this year, then next thing I know, it's slated for a September release date.

Anyway, I'd say some things that could happen:

    This is the last we'll see of this development team on an FF MMO. This is their 2nd attempt and it's going to be their 2nd "meh" MMO, as far as subscription #'s go. S-E isn't developing high-end MMOs for niche markets: they're a business, and they want $$$$$.

    Future FF MMOs might possibly be limited to fewer countries, or even just Japan-only, because it wouldn't be worth it to develop an MMO for an international market that'll go nowhere fast.


Or:

    We'll see a 3rd MMO from this dev team, with a 3rd round of lackluster subscriber numbers. This development team obviously makes creative decisions that appeal to niche markets. <- somehow, I doubt S-E will let this one play out.


Edited, Sep 26th 2010 9:57pm by ghosthacked
#34 Sep 26 2010 at 7:55 PM Rating: Good
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TraumaFox wrote:
There's just no reason for this game to not be at least on par with XI in terms of basic features, but that's been beaten to death by this point. What I'd rather point out is as of right now there's virtually no content. It's certainly not fair for people to expect it to be filled with the same amount of content as the four plus expansions of its predecessor, but there is literally nothing but the beginnings of the main quests for each city, a leve system which features exactly one type of battle leve (go here and kill x number of monsters), and gathering/crafting leves which offer compensation for synthing something specific or gathering from a specific spot, both of which you could have done without the leves. And it doesn't take very long to realize that every map is arranged the same way all the way up to Ishgard, with a basic five-sector layout each having a camp. Those hoping for the 10-50 experience to be any different from 1-10 had best curb their enthusiasm (actually it will be different in that you'll only regain anima often enough to teleport a few times per week, meaning you'll be doing lots more walking).

What disturbs me the most is how adamant the developers have been about eliminating the grind, putting in measures to make sure we don't progress too fast or play too much, and flat out telling us that we're not supposed to grind. Yet there is literally nothing else to do but grind. There is no objective in FFXIV right now other than to increase your rank. Even gathering and crafting is tied to raising ranks. Right now, at retail release, the only reason for playing FFXIV is "I should increase my levels/ranks so that when the developers actually add things for me to do besides increasing my level, I'll be ready." There are no missions to raise your level for. There are no boss battles. There are no big organized events to strive toward participating in. Do I fully expect all of these things to be added with time? Yes. Did I expect all of these things to exist in some fashion at launch? Yes. No matter how you cut it, the game is just plain unfinished; there are absolutely no two ways about it, you cannot argue against it, and no excuses you make about how it's still early and XI didn't have everything at launch etc. etc. will change that fact.

So if there's nothing to do but grind, and the developers are doing everything in their power to make sure I don't grind, then what exactly is it we're all supposed to be doing? It seems to me like we're still just testing the system, and this is merely the fourth beta phase after all. Am I having fun? Yes, as much fun as I had in the beta, which worked because I knew it was a beta; now I'm starting to get bored, because the game has been officially released and there's still nothing more to do than in the beta.

I don't mean to be harshly critical, because I still fully expect FFXIV to be at least as much fun as FFXI was, to give me thrilling experiences for years to come that don't compare to any other game out there. But as of right now, FFXIV is a lame horse that hasn't even made it out of the starting gate, and the devs are already betting all of their money on it to take first place. It's not even a game at this point, it's just an engine for one. Sure, in a few years we'll be basking in the greatest MMO ever made, looking back and laughing at how upset we got, but calling this a proper retail release is going to hurt SE's reputation as an MMO developer with reviewers and gamers who were put off by XI in the first place. For those of us who strove desperately to convince others that XI wasn't as bad as they thought, and for those of us who will continue to do so with XIV, we sure have our work cut out for us.



Very nice Post, TraumaFox, I thought this was well said. I feel about the same.
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#35 Sep 26 2010 at 7:59 PM Rating: Good
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I agree 100%, I still enjoy the game but now that almost a week has gone by it is starting to get a tad boring, I'll still stick around because I know it will get better and I dont really have any other games to play right now.
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#36 Sep 26 2010 at 8:05 PM Rating: Default
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Personally this game is great. It has total freedom, a breath of fresh air. I cant wait until a month done the road when these threads will be gone
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#37 Sep 26 2010 at 8:05 PM Rating: Default
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Personally this game is great. It has total freedom, a breath of fresh air. I cant wait until a month done the road when these threads will be gone
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#38 Sep 26 2010 at 8:53 PM Rating: Decent
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ghosthacked wrote:
I don't think FFXIV'll crash and burn -- but it'll have a major drop-off in subscriptions because they wanted to rush it.

Weren't they in alpha like 5 month ago? Alpha to retail ... not quite, more like they rushed the development to get subs in, and they're only hurting themselves. I wasn't even expecting FF14 to be released this year, then next thing I know, it's slated for a September release date.

Anyway, I'd say some things that could happen:

    This is the last we'll see of this development team on an FF MMO. This is their 2nd attempt and it's going to be their 2nd "meh" MMO, as far as subscription #'s go. S-E isn't developing high-end MMOs for niche markets: they're a business, and they want $$$$$.

    Future FF MMOs might possibly be limited to fewer countries, or even just Japan-only, because it wouldn't be worth it to develop an MMO for an international market that'll go nowhere fast.


Or:

    We'll see a 3rd MMO from this dev team, with a 3rd round of lackluster subscriber numbers. This development team obviously makes creative decisions that appeal to niche markets. <- somehow, I doubt S-E will let this one play out.


Edited, Sep 26th 2010 9:57pm by ghosthacked


I guess you didn't know but as far as commercial MMORPGs go FFXI is probably #2 behind WoW. About five years after it's release, after subs had dropped, it still had about 600k players. That's really good. Your average successful MMORPG today hopes to have 300k+ but can survive with less. WoW is an anomaly, and one of the only commercial MMORPGs in the millions, maybe the only one actually. The only other games I've heard of being in the millions are free. Look at the evidence, Warhammer online has about 4 or 5 servers now, same with Aion, they aren't dead but those ARE low subscriber MMORPGs. FFXI has 24. Lackluster number of subscribers in FFXI with 24 servers? I'm thinking not. I don't think you know MMORPGs very well.


Edited, Sep 26th 2010 10:54pm by BRizzl3
#39 Sep 26 2010 at 9:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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BRizzl3 wrote:

I guess you didn't know but as far as commercial MMORPGs go FFXI is probably #2 behind WoW. About five years after it's release, after subs had dropped, it still had about 600k players. That's really good. Your average successful MMORPG today hopes to have 300k+ but can survive with less. WoW is an anomaly, and one of the only commercial MMORPGs in the millions, maybe the only one actually. The only other games I've heard of being in the millions are free. Look at the evidence, Warhammer online has about 4 or 5 servers now, same with Aion, they aren't dead but those ARE low subscriber MMORPGs. FFXI has 24. Lackluster number of subscribers in FFXI with 24 servers? I'm thinking not. I don't think you know MMORPGs very well.


Edited, Sep 26th 2010 10:54pm by BRizzl3


Where are you getting that statistic from?

Most of the charts I see have Lineage and Lineage 2 beating the tar out of FFXI. I don't know what the current numbers are for Warhammer and Aion but when I was playing Aion their subscribers numbered well over a million.

Number of active servers is not a good indication of subscriber base. For instance FFXI may have 24 active servers, but if those servers only have 2000-3000 people each that's still only 72,000ish people. Just because the server exists doesn't mean it's full.

You've made this claim a number of times and I'm just curious where you're getting your data from
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#40 Sep 26 2010 at 9:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Where are you getting that statistic from?

Most of the charts I see have Lineage and Lineage 2 beating the tar out of FFXI. I don't know what the current numbers are for Warhammer and Aion but when I was playing Aion their subscribers numbered well over a million.

Number of active servers is not a good indication of subscriber base. For instance FFXI may have 24 active servers, but if those servers only have 2000-3000 people each that's still only 72,000ish people. Just because the server exists doesn't mean it's full.

You've made this claim a number of times and I'm just curious where you're getting your data from


Here's a chart showing FFXI topping at 500k active subs:

http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html

Here's another chart showing only games with subs from 70k to 700k, this one shows FFXI topping at 650k:

http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html

Here are a couple references about subs:

This one says 550k accounts logging in in a day in 2004: http://www.cesspit.net/drupal/node/288

This one shows FFXI at 500k, from 2010:
http://www.brighthub.com/video-games/mmo/articles/35992.aspx




#41 Sep 26 2010 at 9:37 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
BRizzl3 wrote:
Here's a chart showing FFXI topping at 500k active subs:

http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html
Am I reading this right? Because it looks like FFXI is 5th or 6th. And that's in 2008. Subscriptions have gone down drastically in the last 2 years in FFXI.

BRizzl3 wrote:
This one shows FFXI at 500k, from 2010:
http://www.brighthub.com/video-games/mmo/articles/35992.aspx
This, again, shows FFXI tied for 5th.

BRizzl3 wrote:
FFXI is probably #2 behind WoW
Probably not, huh?

Edited, Sep 26th 2010 10:40pm by bsphil
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#42 Sep 26 2010 at 9:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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BRizzl3 wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Where are you getting that statistic from?

Most of the charts I see have Lineage and Lineage 2 beating the tar out of FFXI. I don't know what the current numbers are for Warhammer and Aion but when I was playing Aion their subscribers numbered well over a million.

Number of active servers is not a good indication of subscriber base. For instance FFXI may have 24 active servers, but if those servers only have 2000-3000 people each that's still only 72,000ish people. Just because the server exists doesn't mean it's full.

You've made this claim a number of times and I'm just curious where you're getting your data from


Here's a chart showing FFXI topping at 500k active subs:

http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html

Here's another chart showing only games with subs from 70k to 700k, this one shows FFXI topping at 650k:

http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html

Here are a couple references about subs:

This one says 550k accounts logging in in a day in 2004: http://www.cesspit.net/drupal/node/288

This one shows FFXI at 500k, from 2010:
http://www.brighthub.com/video-games/mmo/articles/35992.aspx






Odd, I read those charts too...

Your first one shows Lineage, Lineage 2, and Runescape all between WoW and FFXI.. therefore FFXI (by this chart) is NOT 2nd to WoW, it's 4th... though if you want to ignore Runescape because it's free-to-play that's fine, it's now 3rd

The second chart does indeed show FFXI hitting 650k subscribers....... in 2005

Your last link also shows FFXI at 500k ..... and it still shows Lineage, Lineage 2, and Runescape beating it. My suspicion with that last one is that it's based on data from the other 2 and not actually current data, if for no other reason than Aion isn't on there at all and WoW's subscriber base was 2 million more than that at last count.

EDIT FOR GREAT JUSTICE: Oh and those first charts are from 2008.. not 2010

Edited, Sep 26th 2010 10:41pm by Callinon
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#43 Sep 26 2010 at 9:46 PM Rating: Default
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bsphil wrote:
BRizzl3 wrote:
Here's a chart showing FFXI topping at 500k active subs:

http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html
Am I reading this right? Because it looks like FFXI is 5th or 6th. And that's in 2008. Subscriptions have gone down drastically in the last 2 years in FFXI.

BRizzl3 wrote:
This one shows FFXI at 500k, from 2010:
http://www.brighthub.com/video-games/mmo/articles/35992.aspx
This, again, shows FFXI tied for 5th.

BRizzl3 wrote:
FFXI is probably #2 behind WoW
Probably not, huh?

Edited, Sep 26th 2010 10:40pm by bsphil


You're right, about 5th. I said probably, so thanks for getting smart with me. 5th is only three spots off and still not bad. Since there's no evidence I can find about FFXI subs past 2008 I can't say whether or not they've gone down. They probably have though just from people quitting and waiting for XIV alone, and now quitting for XIV. The amount of players any given server can hold in any game varies, it could be more than a few thousand in XI, who knows. After all if every game was like that that would mean Aion and WAR now have about 12-16k subscribers, which I highly doubt.
#44 Sep 26 2010 at 9:48 PM Rating: Default
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Odd, I read those charts too...

Your first one shows Lineage, Lineage 2, and Runescape all between WoW and FFXI.. therefore FFXI (by this chart) is NOT 2nd to WoW, it's 4th... though if you want to ignore Runescape because it's free-to-play that's fine, it's now 3rd

The second chart does indeed show FFXI hitting 650k subscribers....... in 2005

Your last link also shows FFXI at 500k ..... and it still shows Lineage, Lineage 2, and Runescape beating it. My suspicion with that last one is that it's based on data from the other 2 and not actually current data, if for no other reason than Aion isn't on there at all and WoW's subscriber base was 2 million more than that at last count.

EDIT FOR GREAT JUSTICE: Oh and those first charts are from 2008.. not 2010

Edited, Sep 26th 2010 10:41pm by Callinon


Again, thanks for being smart with me, I said probably 2nd. Wasn't too far off for a guess. Also Runescape isn't a commercial MMORPG, it's a free MMORPG, I said commercial. I should've been more clear but by that I meant MMORPGs that you have to pay money to play. Also look at the Aion server status lately, there isn't much left it's crashing and burning.

Sorry about double post.

Edited, Sep 26th 2010 11:48pm by BRizzl3

Edited, Sep 26th 2010 11:50pm by BRizzl3
#45 Sep 26 2010 at 9:50 PM Rating: Good
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BRizzl3 wrote:
I guess you didn't know but as far as commercial MMORPGs go FFXI is probably #2 behind WoW. About five years after it's release, after subs had dropped, it still had about 600k players. That's really good. Your average successful MMORPG today hopes to have 300k+ but can survive with less.


No. Just no. It is definitely not #2. During FFXI's stable period, it hovered around 500,000 players; it is now down to 350,000 players generating an estimated $70 million per year.

Aion. 3.4 million players.

Lineage and Lineage II. Roughly 750,000 players each.

(For Aion, Lineage, and L2, note that Korean players pay in the neighborhood of $14 to $30 per month.)

Dofus. 520,000 paid subscribers. (Though subscriptions are $6 - $7 per month.)

EVE Online. 360,000 players and still growing after 7 years. ($15 per month.)

Fantasy Westward Journey (Chinese). 2.5 million concurrent users, over 25 million registered users. (Uses prepaid game time cards. Total sales of FWJ game time amounts to several hundred million USD every year.)

Yulgang (aka Scions of Fate). 800,000 concurrent users. (No subscription fee, however. Revenue is generated via virtual item sales.)

Maple Story sells well over $100 million worth of virtual goods every year.

Even Runescape has revenue of approximately $100 million annually.

Yes, even some F2P MMOs are generating more revenue than FFXI.
#46 Sep 26 2010 at 9:52 PM Rating: Good
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2,535 posts
BRizzl3 wrote:
You're right, about 5th. I said probably, so thanks for getting smart with me. 5th is only three spots off and still not bad. Since there's no evidence I can find about FFXI subs past 2008 I can't say whether or not they've gone down. They probably have though just from people quitting and waiting for XIV alone, and now quitting for XIV. The amount of players any given server can hold in any game varies, it could be more than a few thousand in XI, who knows. After all if every game was like that that would mean Aion and WAR now have about 12-16k subscribers, which I highly doubt.


mmogchart.com is outdated - is hasn't been updated since 2008.

For more recent numbers, try mmodata.net.
#47 Sep 26 2010 at 9:53 PM Rating: Default
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Whatever IDC anymore, it's a pointless argument anyway. Subs don't mean s$*% to the quality of a game. I was wrong in many aspects anyway, forgetting markets out of NA in my thoughts. So whatever. At any rate thanks for being total smart asses in every reply to my posts.
#48 Sep 26 2010 at 10:05 PM Rating: Decent
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I can understand your frustration on some aspects of the game. But if your logic is that "you want to have it be the best game there is," telling people to cancel their orders or quit playing is counter intuitive to your mission. Unless you just want the game to fail.

If your thought is that well if they see that everyone just cancelled their orders they'll change their mind and that'll show them.

No, cause if they find that no one is interested, they'll just close the servers. Let the game run its course with no changes. Reallocate resources to another game and move on; plain and simple. In this scenario, WE lose not them.

If you truly are in support of this game but have quirks about it then acknowledge what it HAS accomplished and be optimistic about what the game could possibly hold for us in 5 maybe even 8 years. Give feedback to the developers, offer suggestions on how they can fix the problems or make them better.
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#49 Sep 26 2010 at 11:17 PM Rating: Good
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Focusing on correcting flaws creates strength.

Ignoring them because it's more comfortable, leads to extinction.

It's the laws of nature, which always apply to business and life.

People pointing out flaws will always draw hate from the masses, yet are always responsible for positive change. While the ones clinging to "peaceful ignorance" are always a force against progress and seen as fools and villains in retrospect.

I don't care how you try and make me look like I'm hurting the game by voicing the FACTUAL complaints people deserve to know. I know the fact is I'm the only one between the 2 of us doing something to help things get better.

We saw very clearly at the pre-launch event that canceled pre-orders makes them wake up in a big way. So yes it would actually help if SE version preorders got cancelled. And then those people and more would join weeks later, if Square corrected things fast enough. End result : in the long run the project wins in a big way.

Try thinking past the end of your nose.

What I see you doing is complaining that I said something negative. What I don't see you doing is pointing out how any of that massive list is wrong, or not a problem worthy of attention and immediate correction. The real person you should be complaining about is SE, for allowing such a mass of problems into the game, which leads to complaints. So in the end, we're on the same side. Point your comments that way.

In closing : If i wanted this game to fail, as you accuse me of, I would say nothing and just watch it burn in it's own shortcomings. Which interestingly is exactly what you're asking me to do. So I have to ask, what side are you on, again?


Edited, Sep 27th 2010 1:52am by RattyBatty
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#50 Sep 26 2010 at 11:21 PM Rating: Default
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The message to the Sep 30 crowd is this, Selbina is overcrowded go somewhere else.
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#51 Sep 26 2010 at 11:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Come on, you guys. It's only beta.
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